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View Full Version : West Coast Convo compares some of our players to some nba pros



ZagsGoZags
10-16-2014, 05:23 AM
http://westcoastconvo.com/2014/10/15/gonzagas-starting-lineup-compared-nba-players/

Pangos to Luke Ridnour
Wiltjer to Ryan Anderson
Bell to Leandro Barbosa
Shem to Jason Smith
Wesley to John Salmons

Bogozags
10-16-2014, 05:45 AM
Very interesting article...from all I've read and seen, there is no doubt we will be pleasantly surprised by the play of our two transfers, the play of healthy KP and GBJ and PK as he transitions from his sophomore year to his junior year. I'm very excited to watch this team play and only wish we were playing a much tougher schedule, with more BCS teams but...

zag67
10-16-2014, 07:29 AM
Add to that the comments on how the staff is saying Sabonis is doing and yes this should be a fun year. The freshmen are going to have time to learn and still produce with the right mix of players around them. And I would now count out Dranginis being another Hart.. And I still believe that Nunez and McC will be solid role players and against certain teams might even be stars. That is a scared set of players and so many unknowns. The chemistry to keep players happy and producing is going to be a major job for the coaches and seniors

Reborn
10-16-2014, 07:29 AM
Wow!!! All five starters to the NBA? If we are to believe this, wouldn't it follow that we should believe that the Zags will make a deep run in March, a very deep run?

jazzdelmar
10-16-2014, 07:37 AM
Wow!!! All five starters to the NBA? If we are to believe this, wouldn't it follow that we should believe that the Zags will make a deep run in March, a very deep run?

Whoa, Bornie Boy. I am pretty sure the writer was making comparisons on style of play and physical appearance, not implying all five are NBAers. Even for you, my friend, that's a major reach. The most likely pro on the roster in my view is Sabonis, with maybe KW and Shem and Melson in that order.


dop·pel·gäng·er --- someone who looks like someone else

Zagcity
10-16-2014, 07:42 AM
Whoa, Bornie Boy. I am pretty sure the writer was making comparisons on style of play and appearance, not implying all five are NBAers. Even for you, my friend, that's a major reach. The most likely pro on the roster in my view is Sabonis, with maybe KW and Shem and Melson in that order.


dop·pel·gäng·er --- someone who looks like someone else


Well, well, well Jazzie boy aren't you the wise one. Time will tell:roll:

Birddog
10-16-2014, 07:44 AM
I understand the need for fans to see positive comments re the Zags in E-print, but you have to consider the source of a lot of these Blogs.
About the author: http://westcoastconvo.com/author/andybuhler/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS6f1MKpLGM

The upside is that the author might make some extra coin to spend on research at Jack and Dans.

webspinnre
10-16-2014, 07:50 AM
The most likely pro on the roster in my view is Sabonis, with maybe KW and Shem and Melson in that order.


I'm sure you're talking about NBA pro, but I'm sure Kevin and Gary could both have very long pro careers overseas if that's what they want.

Reborn
10-16-2014, 08:06 AM
Whoa, Bornie Boy. I am pretty sure the writer was making comparisons on style of play and physical appearance, not implying all five are NBAers. Even for you, my friend, that's a major reach. The most likely pro on the roster in my view is Sabonis, with maybe KW and Shem and Melson in that order.


dop·pel·gäng·er --- someone who looks like someone else

At least we agree on three of the five. That's pretty good, Jazz. However, I do believe that Kevin will make it in the end. And I feel comparing him to Ridnaur is a very good comparison. And what about Gary Bell? Is there room in the NBA for a player like Gary Bell? There could be, Jazz. First Gary is a GREAT defensive player. And you would have to admit, he can really shoot the 3 ball. I think that this season will tell us a lot. This year's team will look somewhat like an NBA team, and Gary Bell, for the first time since his Freshman season, might be able to play healthy. Remember how good we all thought he was when he was a Freshman? He just might be that kind of player again this year. Regarding Kevin, Dick Vitale might agree with me, Jazz. He has Kevin on the 2nd team preseason pick. I would think a second team All-American would make it into the NBA.

jazzdelmar
10-16-2014, 08:44 AM
I'm sure you're talking about NBA pro, but I'm sure Kevin and Gary could both have very long pro careers overseas if that's what they want.

Agree, Spin.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-16-2014, 10:05 AM
At least we agree on three of the five. That's pretty good, Jazz. However, I do believe that Kevin will make it in the end. And I feel comparing him to Ridnaur is a very good comparison. And what about Gary Bell? Is there room in the NBA for a player like Gary Bell? There could be, Jazz. First Gary is a GREAT defensive player. And you would have to admit, he can really shoot the 3 ball. I think that this season will tell us a lot. This year's team will look somewhat like an NBA team, and Gary Bell, for the first time since his Freshman season, might be able to play healthy. Remember how good we all thought he was when he was a Freshman? He just might be that kind of player again this year. Regarding Kevin, Dick Vitale might agree with me, Jazz. He has Kevin on the 2nd team preseason pick. I would think a second team All-American would make it into the NBA.

When i think of Gary Bell and the NBA, I think of Vinnie "The Microwave" Johnson of the Detroit Pistons...a 6'2" shooting guard, muscular build..very successful NBA career. However, Pangos does not remind me of Johnson's running mate, Isiah Thomas.

ZAGGED OUT
10-16-2014, 10:09 AM
Laimbeer and Wiltjer could not be further from comparable. Wiltjer is not going to protect the rim like Bill did, I think KW will be huge for us this year, but just not in that way

seacatfan
10-16-2014, 10:33 AM
Ryan Anderson was a stud at Cal. If Wiltjer can bring that kind of inside/outside game to the Zags this year, that would be great.

ZagsGoZags
10-16-2014, 10:31 PM
I understand the need for fans to see positive comments re the Zags in E-print, but you have to consider the source of a lot of these Blogs.
About the author: http://westcoastconvo.com/author/andybuhler/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS6f1MKpLGM

The upside is that the author might make some extra coin to spend on research at Jack and Dans.

Thanks for the research on who the author and West Coast Convo are.
To know that the source is amateur is always a good thing.
However, as in business, the arts, etc. it is a fact that amateurs sometimes provide valid insights. The thing to do, IMHO, with ideas we disagree with by amateurs, is not to discredit the status of them, but to express what we disagree with and give our reasons why, thus exposing the so-called thin-ness of their observations.

Mojo13
10-20-2014, 05:08 PM
Not sure people here are giving enough respect to the jump that the NBA requires in terms of size, athleticism and skill. Not surprised I guess, as some people here prattled on how David Stockton had a legit shot at a NBA roster spot (laughable).

Anyways....Shem is the only one in my book that has a real shot right now. And by that, I mean 50/50 (or more) shot of being on an NBA roster in the next 2-3 years. He has the size and seemingly the skill level for the NBA. He has nascent NBA tools, NBA potential.
Wiltjer is (or was) too slow and unathletic and unproven. Unless he has made major improvements in the last year (KO level transformation) he has a limited probability. It is possible he improved to the degree that much of this forum expects and I'll welcome it if/when we see it. But I think it is earlier to claim Wiltjer has serious NBA potential (hope I am proved wrong).
Bell is too small to be a SG and not the skill level of a PG (a very deep position in the NBA right now) - very low shot IMO
Pangos is too small, too unathletic. Maybe he hearts/IQs/X-factors his way onto a team like Delly - who was also not given much of a chance (and was better than KP). I wouldn't be surprised to see KP in the NBA (and again truly hope I am proved wrong), but it is still a long-shot to me.
Sabonis and Melson are just too unknown at this stage. Not sure how anyone can call their NBA potential at this point – Ok, yes…Sabonis’s pedigree has to make you think.

DixieZag
10-20-2014, 05:28 PM
– Ok, yes…Sabonis’s pedigree has to make you think.

That and the fact that, far as I know, he's the only player on the roster who has matched up against grown men pros in the second highest rated pro league in the world?

Though you are right to point out that it is silly to speak of such things before a guy even plays. I would say the same thing about Gary, though. We really haven't seen him play healthy for any stretch of time. Perhaps he just can't stay healthy, for whatever reason, some can't. But, if he can, it seems to me there are plenty of guys built like him who have had nice careers in the NBA.

I often wonder if Pangos' game matches Steve Nash's game at this point in his career. I don't know, I only saw Nash live once - when they beat Arizona his frosh year as a 15 seed - which is a pretty cool game to see if you're only going to see one live. :)

seacatfan
10-20-2014, 06:29 PM
Mojo makes a good point. I've lost track of how many really, really good college players I've seen fail to make a go of it in the NBA. There just aren't that many roster spots available and there's really tough competition to get one of those spots. Not a bad reflection on the player, just means they couldn't find a niche to fit into.

What it seems to me people are conveniently ignoring/overlooking when projecting how many current Zags are heading to the NBA is just how many former Zags didn't make the cut. Think about some of the best players from GU since the run started in the late 90s and then think about how many of them never found a home in the League. Almost all of them.

Now when it comes to projecting freshmen that have yet to play one second of college ball as one-and-doners, that is laughable. If I had a penny for every would be one-and-doner that ended up sticking around for 2, 3 even 4 years, I'd have a lot of pennies.

If Bell has any chance of getting on an NBA roster, it's going to be because of his defense. Tony Delk and Bobby Jackson are the poster children for undersized 2G or combo/tweeners that managed to have a lengthy NBA career, and both were excellent defenders.

seacatfan
10-20-2014, 06:33 PM
And yeah, Stockton is not going to be an NBA player. If his last name didn't happen to be Stockton I don't think there's any way he would've even gotten an invite to anyone's camp. He was a marginal player at the DI level for most of his career. No chance he can make it in the NBA. There's not one guard in the League that wouldn't just destroy him. He doesn't have a pro body or skill set.

Reborn
10-20-2014, 09:27 PM
Mojo makes a good point. I've lost track of how many really, really good college players I've seen fail to make a go of it in the NBA. There just aren't that many roster spots available and there's really tough competition to get one of those spots. Not a bad reflection on the player, just means they couldn't find a niche to fit into.

What it seems to me people are conveniently ignoring/overlooking when projecting how many current Zags are heading to the NBA is just how many former Zags didn't make the cut. Think about some of the best players from GU since the run started in the late 90s and then think about how many of them never found a home in the League. Almost all of them.

Now when it comes to projecting freshmen that have yet to play one second of college ball as one-and-doners, that is laughable. If I had a penny for every would be one-and-doner that ended up sticking around for 2, 3 even 4 years, I'd have a lot of pennies.

If Bell has any chance of getting on an NBA roster, it's going to be because of his defense. Tony Delk and Bobby Jackson are the poster children for undersized 2G or combo/tweeners that managed to have a lengthy NBA career, and both were excellent defenders.

Believe it or not, he's one heck of a 3 point shooter too. That is a good combination. Very good 3 point shooter and great defender. Oh and one heck of a guy. Have you ever talked to him? If you haven't you should try to.

Reborn
10-20-2014, 09:32 PM
Not sure people here are giving enough respect to the jump that the NBA requires in terms of size, athleticism and skill. Not surprised I guess, as some people here prattled on how David Stockton had a legit shot at a NBA roster spot (laughable).

Anyways....Shem is the only one in my book that has a real shot right now. And by that, I mean 50/50 (or more) shot of being on an NBA roster in the next 2-3 years. He has the size and seemingly the skill level for the NBA. He has nascent NBA tools, NBA potential.
Wiltjer is (or was) too slow and unathletic and unproven. Unless he has made major improvements in the last year (KO level transformation) he has a limited probability. It is possible he improved to the degree that much of this forum expects and I'll welcome it if/when we see it. But I think it is earlier to claim Wiltjer has serious NBA potential (hope I am proved wrong).
Bell is too small to be a SG and not the skill level of a PG (a very deep position in the NBA right now) - very low shot IMO
Pangos is too small, too unathletic. Maybe he hearts/IQs/X-factors his way onto a team like Delly - who was also not given much of a chance (and was better than KP). I wouldn't be surprised to see KP in the NBA (and again truly hope I am proved wrong), but it is still a long-shot to me.
Sabonis and Melson are just too unknown at this stage. Not sure how anyone can call their NBA potential at this point – Ok, yes…Sabonis’s pedigree has to make you think.

Have you been hangin out with Jazz lately? Just wondering....Certainly one of the more negative posts I've read in awhile.

ZagsGoZags
10-20-2014, 09:55 PM
If time shows his views are valid, then I would not call those views negative. Just realistic and accurate. Like mojo, I hope these five players, prove him wrong. What I like about Mojo's comments are that he doesn't just put down any opinions not written by a professional sports journalist - he doesn't discount it because a student zag fanatic wrote it. Mojo gave his reasons for why he thought the article's author was off the mark in several of his points.
I know some members of this board think 'if you can't educate me with basketball wisdom, don't waste my time by posting.' I respect that view. I have a different view. I am a zag fanatic who likes to have a forum where other zagnuts can talk and share their opinions, and just generally chat up the team they love, and learn all kinds of different things from each other. I think of this board as a type of secondary 'zag family' or zag community who share their enthusiasm with each other.
If time proves most of these five players spend a number of fruitful years in the NBA, then I would agree Mojo's views were too pessimistic or negative.

maynard g krebs
10-20-2014, 10:44 PM
I often wonder if Pangos' game matches Steve Nash's game at this point in his career. I don't know, I only saw Nash live once - when they beat Arizona his frosh year as a 15 seed - which is a pretty cool game to see if you're only going to see one live. :)

I think Nash is a lot leaner and quicker than Pangos, and that's what separates them.

maynard g krebs
10-20-2014, 10:53 PM
And yeah, Stockton is not going to be an NBA player. If his last name didn't happen to be Stockton I don't think there's any way he would've even gotten an invite to anyone's camp. He was a marginal player at the DI level for most of his career. No chance he can make it in the NBA. There's not one guard in the League that wouldn't just destroy him. He doesn't have a pro body or skill set.

I agree he won't make the NBA, but disagree with him being invited to camp because of his name. He did very well at Portsmouth running his team at an event where most of the guards are trying to showcase their scoring ability. He makes others better because he knows how to play the game. My opinion is that he got the invite because his his presence and IQ will have a positive teaching effect for more physically talented but less savvy players in the NBA during training camp.

Baseline
10-20-2014, 11:18 PM
An interesting thread, negative to some as we all want to see the guys succeed in life. The hurdle is high but we can sure hope and pull for them.
In looking at the team PK has a chance if he can expand his game. He showed pretty good defense this last year and toward the end of the year he actually attacked the basket. If he can up his game with some face up moves I think he could have a long career in the NBA.
KW will all depend on if he has a legitimate inside game and a passable defense.
The rest will have a hard time and it will need to be an exact fit.
Melson has enough size and athleticism as well as shooting pretty well. He may have a legitimate chance, but I say that not having seen him play a D1 game.
I hold Edwards as a real possibility. He has the size and build to be an NBA player. If he truly puts in the work and builds the muscle to give him explosiveness then he can write his own ticket. He also needs to develop an offensive game and I love that he will be playing against Sabonis, the kid with the motor.

seacatfan
10-20-2014, 11:48 PM
Believe it or not, he's one heck of a 3 point shooter too. That is a good combination. Very good 3 point shooter and great defender. Oh and one heck of a guy. Have you ever talked to him? If you haven't you should try to.

I haven't ever had a chance to talk to him (or any of the Zags for that matter). I'm pleased to hear that he's a quality individual. And yes, he is a good shooter from distance.

jazzdelmar
10-21-2014, 04:10 AM
Have you been hangin out with Jazz lately? Just wondering....Certainly one of the more negative posts I've read in awhile.

Bornie. Don't know the fella, but I like his style and candor. This thread is about two years late with respect to DS. Borderline, indeed. Still, if he were 6-4 he would have been a treat, like that PG at South Dakota a few years ago. Gary Bell in the NBA, really? Luv KP, but 10% on heart alone.

Sabonis, I say again, has the best shot at the NBA (just about all the others will play pro somewhere on the globe), with Melson the most intriguing, sight unseen suspect. The point about the NBA being levels above major D1 is a great one. Sabonis has pedigree, size, a motor, and upside and still he is 50-50, IMO.

basketballzag
10-21-2014, 06:35 AM
Bornie. Don't know the fella, but I like his style and candor. This thread is about two years late with respect to DS. Borderline, indeed. Still, if he were 6-4 he would have been a treat, like that PG at South Dakota a few years ago. Gary Bell in the NBA, really? Luv KP, but 10% on heart alone.

Sabonis, I say again, has the best shot at the NBA (just about all the others will play pro somewhere on the globe), with Melson the most intriguing, sight unseen suspect. The point about the NBA being levels above major D1 is a great one. Sabonis has pedigree, size, a motor, and upside and still he is 50-50, IMO.

Jazz--

Take this for what its worth. Gonzaga will be one of a handful of teams this year in which NBA scouts will attend every single game. They aren't all there to watch Karno, KW, and Sabonis either--a few NBA teams are evaluating no less than 7 players on Gonzaga's 2014-15 team. Not many schools attract this type of NBA attention but Mark Few coached teams absolutely do.

jazzdelmar
10-21-2014, 08:11 AM
Jazz--

Take this for what its worth. Gonzaga will be one of a handful of teams this year in which NBA scouts will attend every single game. They aren't all there to watch Karno, KW, and Sabonis either--a few NBA teams are evaluating no less than 7 players on Gonzaga's 2014-15 team. Not many schools attract this type of NBA attention but Mark Few coached teams absolutely do.

Fair enough, BBZ, but you of all people know there's a lot of window shopping during the season and while seven players may be on a list it's clear to me there is a hierarchy of prospects and I would put DS at the top for the reasons cited. Thanks for the insight.

Mojo13
10-21-2014, 09:30 AM
Have you been hangin out with Jazz lately? Just wondering....Certainly one of the more negative posts I've read in awhile.



Not trying to be negative, just trying to take off my fan goggles and provide a pragmatic view. I am huge homer for KP and KW as I am a fan of Canadian bball players first and Gonzaga second. Over the last 1/2 dozen years or so there has been great Canadian content residing in Spokane so I have been on the Zags band wagon for a number of years. But I still follow closely many other teams as well, depending on the “Canadian-ness” of the team. My main interest is watching and following the progress of Canadian players that I think will make the NBA (or excel in Europe) as I am a little obsessed with seeing the Canadian National team succeed at the highest levels.

KP could very well get to the NBA - as I said, I didn’t see Delly sticking with the Cavs yet is now the entrenched back-up PG on one of the best teams in the league. As I said, I think people underestimate the jump to the NBA. Many fantastic college players can't transition to the NBA. However there are spots for role players with elite skills - that is the opportunity for guys like KP, KW and GB if they have any shot (the competition is intense though). I highly doubt they have any chance to be NBA caliber starters.

However, Brady Heslip (ex-Baylor SG) is someone to keep an eye on. My opinion is KP is superior player to Heslip, and Heslip is still with the T-Wolves late into training camp. Heslip does have an elite NBA skill in high demand - he is a true 3 point gunner (also good bball IQ), yet historically I thought him just too small and unalthetic for the NBA. SG is probably the weakest position in the NBA right now, so he has that going for him.

Tell me….if you were to place a $1000 wager in Las Vegas on any of the guys making a NBA teams regular season roster in the next four years would you expect 50/50 odds on anyone but Shem right now? If you offer up any other player with odds higher than 20/80 (maybe less) I think you would get loads of takers.

Zagdawg
10-21-2014, 09:45 AM
Other than Shem -- I believe that both Sabonis and KW have a shot at making a roster -- lets see how they do in their first game in a Zags uniform before we ship them off to Europe.

Mojo13
10-21-2014, 10:23 AM
Yep agreed - I have nothing to base Sabonis off of, I have never seen him play. My opinion on KW is based off of his years at UK. I am eagerly waiting to embrace a new and massively improved KW.

Reborn
10-21-2014, 07:49 PM
Since you are so confident I will bet a thousand dollars, but at 10-1 odds. If I win you pay me $10,000. I place this bet on both Kevin and Gary. I'll go just 2-1 odds on Kyle Wiltjer. Again I'll bet $1000 and if I win you pay me just $2,000. For PK well bet straight up. I'll bet $1000 on Pk. if you lose you pay me $1000. And finally, i'll bet the $1000 on Wesley at 20-1 odds. If he goes pro you pay me $20,000. Now to me that seems pretty fair. What many of us are saying that there is a chance that these guys can make the NBA. Some have a better chance. Some not as much but I would place a bet on them for the right odds.

I would also love to bet on the Freshmen to see how gutsy you are. I would be the $1000 each on Sabonis and Melson. And I am pretty confident in both so would bet the money straight up. I bet a thousand, and if I lose you get it; if I win you pay me $1000.

23dpg
10-21-2014, 08:20 PM
Just to be clear. What are you betting Reborn?

That those guys get drafted?
Play in summer league?
Play pro anywhere?
Make an NBA roster?

RenoZag
10-21-2014, 08:37 PM
So:

Reborn's willing to wager $7000 ( $1K per player) on seven current Zags making the NBA (in an unspecified amount of time) if he gets the following odds ??

Wesley : 20/1
Pangos: 10/1
GBJ: 10/1
Wiltjer: 2/1
Karnowski: 1/1
Melson: 1/1
Sabonis: 1/1


William Hill (http://www.williamhill.us/) will be getting touch. . .:D

Reborn
10-21-2014, 09:16 PM
The bet would be against Mojo13. to make an NBA roster....in any time period. Mojo said they couldn't do it; so if takes 3,4,5 years I still win. Let's say within five years AFTER they leave Gonzaga....Seems fair to me. Afterall, Mojo said they couldn't make it, period.

Mojo13
10-22-2014, 09:48 AM
The bet would be against Mojo13. to make an NBA roster....in any time period. Mojo said they couldn't do it; so if takes 3,4,5 years I still win. Let's say within five years AFTER they leave Gonzaga....Seems fair to me. Afterall, Mojo said they couldn't make it, period.

Relax....take a sip of your morning tea. Maybe re-read what I wrote when you calm down.
Please show me where I said none of them could make the NBA period. My whole premise is that I think (at this point in time). Shem is the only one to probably make the NBA in the next 2-3 years - and by probably I said 50/50 odds or better (I hope you realize you gave the same odds). All the others are unprobable - meaning less than 50/50 odds. And I punted on Melson and Sabonis as I have yet to see them play and it is way too early to make a call.

With the other non-froshes it seems you are just validating what I said...your odds look about right...so I am not sure what we are argueing about. However, my gut says you'd be throwing money away on Melson and Sabonis at 1/1 odds. Especially Melson an unranked, 3 star recruit? I don't know much about him yet but was that a typo?

zagfan24
10-22-2014, 09:57 AM
The NBA is a fickle thing, but it's certainly a tough league to break into as a guard. Sacre, Turiaf, and Daye have carved out nice careers as role players, Olynyk looks to be heading toward a solid tenure as well. Stepp's injuries limited his chances despite being drafted; and aside from summer league and training camp invites others (e.g., Bouldin, Gray, Downs) have yet to get a big opportunity. Pargo has had some chances, and played well at times, but nothing consistent. These were all great players at GU.

The greater point is that I believe it is far from insulting to suggest a player (particularly a guard) won't stick in the NBA. It's just really, really difficult to make a roster and takes a blend of talent and a little luck.

seacatfan
10-22-2014, 10:11 AM
The NBA is a fickle thing, but it's certainly a tough league to break into as a guard. Sacre, Turiaf, and Daye have carved out nice careers as role players, Olynyk looks to be heading toward a solid tenure as well. Stepp's injuries limited his chances despite being drafted; and aside from summer league and training camp invites others (e.g., Bouldin, Gray, Downs) have yet to get a big opportunity. Pargo has had some chances, and played well at times, but nothing consistent. These were all great players at GU.

The greater point is that I believe it is far from insulting to suggest a player (particularly a guard) won't stick in the NBA. It's just really, really difficult to make a roster and takes a blend of talent and a little luck.

I was trying to make the same point earlier. There have definitely been some very good guards at GU that didn't find homes in the NBA. Agree about Turiaf, Sacre and Olynk, although it seems like Daye has been a fairly large disappointment and is a marginal player in the League.

Also in projecting current Zag frontcourt players as future NBA members, keep in mind former players like Calvary, Heytvelt and Harris didn't make it. I would say all three were very good players at GU.

Reborn
10-22-2014, 10:52 AM
Relax....take a sip of your morning tea. Maybe re-read what I wrote when you calm down.
Please show me where I said none of them could make the NBA period. My whole premise is that I think (at this point in time). Shem is the only one to probably make the NBA in the next 2-3 years - and by probably I said 50/50 odds or better (I hope you realize you gave the same odds). All the others are unprobable - meaning less than 50/50 odds. And I punted on Melson and Sabonis as I have yet to see them play and it is way too early to make a call.

With the other non-froshes it seems you are just validating what I said...your odds look about right...so I am not sure what we are argueing about. However, my gut says you'd be throwing money away on Melson and Sabonis at 1/1 odds. Especially Melson an unranked, 3 star recruit? I don't know much about him yet but was that a typo?

Mojo I was just trying to have a little fun because it's been so boring on here lately. Jazz is actually someone I really like, and I believe his perspective on GU basketball is very good. So if I pair you up with him it's a compliment. Most people like his feedback "some of the time." hahahahaha I appreciated your perspective on the players. You challenged me by asking me if I'd bet $1000 on any of the starting five making it to the NBA? If you knew me you'd know I'm pretty competitive and don't back down. So I put a challenge to you. I wanted to see how you would respond.

Melson is pretty darn good. I believe he's going to be a great guard at GU. Melson is kind of a long shot, but I figured I would win the bet about Sabonis, and take a chance with Melson. Worst I could do is come out even.

zag buddy
10-22-2014, 11:08 AM
Speaking of money reborn---I could use a $ loan. It seems my bets haven't been working out.

USF
10-22-2014, 11:42 AM
Predicting a player's NBA future is very difficult. How many players from NCAA ball make an NBA roster every year? 30-40? Lots of foreign players have joined the party. That means you are the elite of the elite in college ball. I have no idea which current Gonzaga players will make the NBA, if any. But look who never stuck: Santangelo, Frahm, Calvary, Heytvelt, JP Batista, Pargo, Micah Downs, Bouldin, etc. And those guys were seriously good college players. Are any of your current players at that level? Probably not at this point.

Karnowski may make it due to size alone, but there are a lot of big foreign guys trying to make it. And look at the NBA players he would face. Blake Girffin, DeAndre Jordan, the Gasols, Howard, Noah, Ibaka, Cousins, Drummond, Bogut, Anthony Davis, Aldridge, etc. He is just nowhere near that level. Terrible FT shooter and would have a very hard time running an NBA floor every night. As a college player? Pretty unstoppable, especially in the WCC. The NBA is just a different animal completely.

DixieZag
10-22-2014, 11:59 AM
Predicting a player's NBA future is very difficult. How many players from NCAA ball make an NBA roster every year? 30-40? Lots of foreign players have joined the party. That means you are the elite of the elite in college ball. I have no idea which current Gonzaga players will make the NBA, if any. But look who never stuck: Santangelo, Frahm, Calvary, Heytvelt, JP Batista, Pargo, Micah Downs, Bouldin, etc. And those guys were seriously good college players. Are any of your current players at that level? Probably not at this point.

Karnowski may make it due to size alone, but there are a lot of big foreign guys trying to make it. And look at the NBA players he would face. Blake Girffin, DeAndre Jordan, the Gasols, Howard, Noah, Ibaka, Cousins, Drummond, Bogut, Anthony Davis, Aldridge, etc. He is just nowhere near that level. Terrible FT shooter and would have a very hard time running an NBA floor every night. As a college player? Pretty unstoppable, especially in the WCC. The NBA is just a different animal completely.

That's a fair post - pretty good actually.

I'll just say, if you are referring to whether any of our current players are at the level of Calvary, Heytvelt, Batista, etc as comparing college players - the conventional wisdom, and not just on this board, is that this team has more talent (or equal) than any before. Of course we have to see it play out but this team is loaded with guys with that potential.

You are, of course, right about the NBA being a different animal with relatively few roster spots turning over year to year. Karno's value is based on size and good hands, even if he didn't turn out to be an NBA talent, he will likely get 2 or 3 years with a team just trying to find out if they can take advantage of him - least that's how I would look at it.

And you forgot Morrison as a guy that never really stuck. Though, we'll never really know what he could have done had he not torn his knee in half.