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NanookZag
02-15-2007, 10:01 AM
Gonzaga big man Josh Heytvelt has gotten some love from NBA scouts as a ###ential first-round pick. He had the best game of his career last week when he dropped 27 points and 22 rebounds versus Pepperdine. But Heytvelt and freshman Theo Davis were pulled over in a smoke-filled car and arrested for possession of marijuana and psychedelic mushrooms on Friday and then suspended from the team. Heytvelt doesn't have the upside that Boston College Sean Williams has ... not sure his draft stock can survive a hit like this given the depth of this draft.

Pallet
02-15-2007, 10:16 AM
From Chad Ford's chat yesterday:

John- NYC: Chad...what about Josh Heytvelt of Gonzaga. While he's still innocent until proven guilty, if he's kicked off the team and comes out in the draft where does he go? I mean murderers and rapists have gotten second chances in the NBA and NFL...why shouldn't he? He has top 10 talent easily!

Chad Ford: I don't think he's a Top 10 talent. But I think he was on the first round bubble before the incident. If he's found guilty, I think it will hurt his stock ... but not kill it. Lots of guys in the league smoke (not sure about the psychedelic mushrooms though). If he can play and realizes he's going to get tested for the stuff in the league, someone will take him. There's too much talent to let it go. Same goes for Boston College's Sean Williams.

mendiant
02-15-2007, 10:25 AM
Let him go to the NBA.

Then let's retire his number due to bad karma.

229SintoZag
02-15-2007, 01:03 PM
"Let him go to the NBA."

Um. Correct me if I am wrong--but are we not told to forgive? And are we not told to not cast stones if we live in glass houses?

If Gonzaga booted Josh it would be contrary to its own mission statement and principles as a Jesuit, Catholic university.

See also the story of the prodigal son.

This is the first time offense. He deserves a chance at redemption.

Now I am not saying he gets a clean slate. He has a lot of apologizing, explaining, and brown nosing to do if you ask me.

What he did is his problem and is not Gonzaga's fault--it is not a reflection of the University.

But how the University responds IS a reflection of the University. And taking a hard line and dumping Josh would be a poor reflection of the University indeed.

Just my two cents.


229

former1dog
02-15-2007, 01:05 PM
"Let him go to the NBA."

Um. Correct me if I am wrong--but are we not told to forgive? And are we not told to not cast stones if we live in glass houses?

If Gonzaga booted Josh it would be contrary to its own mission statement and principles as a Jesuit, Catholic university.

See also the story of the prodigal son.

This is the first time offense. He deserves a chance at redemption.

Now I am not saying he gets a clean slate. He has a lot of apologizing, explaining, and brown nosing to do if you ask me.

What he did is his problem and is not Gonzaga's fault--it is not a reflection of the University.

But how the University responds IS a reflection of the University. And taking a hard line and dumping Josh would be a poor reflection of the University indeed.

Just my two cents.


229

All due respect to each opinion, we've only seen the first act in a 3 act drama.

youreachiteach
02-15-2007, 01:07 PM
Whats wrong with the food at GU's cafeteria???

mendiant
02-15-2007, 01:31 PM
"Let him go to the NBA."

Um. Correct me if I am wrong--but are we not told to forgive? And are we not told to not cast stones if we live in glass houses?

If Gonzaga booted Josh it would be contrary to its own mission statement and principles as a Jesuit, Catholic university.

See also the story of the prodigal son.

This is the first time offense. He deserves a chance at redemption.

Now I am not saying he gets a clean slate. He has a lot of apologizing, explaining, and brown nosing to do if you ask me.

What he did is his problem and is not Gonzaga's fault--it is not a reflection of the University.

But how the University responds IS a reflection of the University. And taking a hard line and dumping Josh would be a poor reflection of the University indeed.

Just my two cents.


229

UM..OK here's your correction:

The prodigal son was actually repentant. It's nearly a week and where are the apologies?

Forgiveness goes without saying. A kid can be forgiven for breaking a window, but the window is still broken. There are consequences for the negative actions you take.

Letting Josh go would reflect well on GU. It makes a statement about standards. Do we dumb down standards because some guy shoots hoops???

I think of some dope smoking moron who ends up in jail or fined or both, but Josh gets by???

Double standards reflect poorly on GU. Not upholding the standards in force and therefore the INTEGRITY of the university.

HillBillyZag
02-15-2007, 01:31 PM
If the investigation & trial turn up no further problems I am in favor giving both of them a second chance providing they meet all and any conditions laid out by the University and the Coaches. I have every confidence that Fr. Spitzer, Mr. Roth, and Coach Few Will deal with them fairly. My only concern is that they understand that what they did was dead wrong, receive help for addiction, if needed?, accept the conditions laid down for their return and publicly apologize to the School and their team-mates, and know that further indiscretions of any kind will NOT be tolerated. If these conditions are met I wish them the best and will pray that they learn for sure what being a Zag is all about.

TheBeast
02-15-2007, 01:35 PM
Whats wrong with the food at GU's cafeteria???

The cafeteria is known as the COG, and the images that conjures up for most people are pretty s p o t on.

gonza
02-15-2007, 01:39 PM
With all due respect Sinto, whether or not what he did should reflect on the university, the fact is that it does. Every article I have seen regarding the incident mentions Gonzaga. Each time they are tied in the media, they are reinforced in peoples minds.

FWIW, I don't think Josh will be back, and it will be by his own decision; perhaps a "quit or be fired" scenario ????

It would be awful hard for anyone to walk back into a situation after something like this. Forgiveness will be given, but how do you forget?

roxdoc
02-15-2007, 01:43 PM
I agree that it's only Act I. However 229Sinto, Josh, as an athlete in our high profile program, does represent the University and his actions do reflect accordingly. As has been pointed out elsewhere there are 3 aspects: legal (more to come), University (place to turn the other cheek, give the guy a break, offer help, Jesuit principles etc etc), and Team. This last is the toughie but I suppose resolution, to a degree, hinges on the outcome of the first.

ZagPants
02-15-2007, 01:50 PM
FWIW, I don't think Josh will be back, and it will be by his own decision; perhaps a "quit or be fired" scenario ????

It would be awful hard for anyone to walk back into a situation after something like this. Forgiveness will be given, but how do you forget?

A "quit or be fired scenario" would be an utterly classless move on the part of the university and something I don't think will happen. He gets to stay or he's told to leave. OMGLOLFWIWIMHO.

gonza
02-15-2007, 02:05 PM
How about "I think it might be in everybody's best interest if you decided to move on"?

zaglawdad
02-15-2007, 02:10 PM
Can someone answer a quick question for me. I'm ignorant of NCAA rules. But if Heytvelt and Davis were released by GU would they be eligible to play for another D1 university without losing a year of eligibility?

ZagPants
02-15-2007, 02:12 PM
How about "I think it might be in everybody's best interest if you decided to move on"?

Well, if someone said that to me I certainly wouldn't think there was any alternative. From now until the final decisions have been made, I cannot be bothered to type more on the subject.

tyra
02-15-2007, 02:31 PM
Much as I have resisted weighing in on this continuing story . . . The problem IMHO with all these posts about what should or should not happen with respect to Josh and Theo is that we have not heard from either young man yet. The University's and the program's reaction to this incident will be based in part on what they say and are willing to do. The fact that they haven't talked yet may be as a result of something that is perfectly understandable but we just don't know. So, I vote to let this play out a while and see what Josh and Theo have to say (either privately to the University or whatever).

zagbac
02-15-2007, 02:38 PM
The cafeteria is known as the COG, and the images that conjures up for most people are pretty s p o t on.

Remeber flush hard it's a long way to the COG.

NVzag
02-15-2007, 02:53 PM
Much as I have resisted weighing in on this continuing story . . . The problem IMHO with all these posts about what should or should not happen with respect to Josh and Theo is that we have not heard from either young man yet. The University's and the program's reaction to this incident will be based in part on what they say and are willing to do. The fact that they haven't talked yet may be as a result of something that is perfectly understandable but we just don't know. So, I vote to let this play out a while and see what Josh and Theo have to say (either privately to the University or whatever).

Josh & Theo are lawyered up.

We probably won't hear anything out of them until the legal system finishes up what it's got to do.

I'm sure they've talked to the coaching staff & University personell, but I doubt that we're going to hear any details of those conversations anytime soon either.

Edit to add: I got better food in an Army mess hall than I got in the COG. ;)

adoptedzag
02-15-2007, 02:58 PM
If they're lawyered up, they probably won't issue an apology until it doesn't hurt their case. Right now, if they apologised, that would be tantamount to an admission of guilt, and no lawyer would allow them to do it at the present time, imo.

sittingon50
02-15-2007, 03:21 PM
We've been told that recruits get voted on by the player's (after having had their campus visit) as to whether they want the kid as a teammate. Why not the same with these kids?
They certainly know JH & TD better than any newbie, having spent so much time with them. They know if this is an anomoly or a pattern. I think the kids are more interested in "can I go to battle with this guy" rather than "can this guy help me win more games."
Let the players decide if they want these 2 to represent the program & the University. Just a thought.

SoCalZag
02-15-2007, 03:57 PM
with 50 - let them face their circumstances, and put their status on the team to a vote by folks they let down the most - their teammates.

cougs4ever
02-15-2007, 04:00 PM
Can someone answer a quick question for me. I'm ignorant of NCAA rules. But if Heytvelt and Davis were released by GU would they be eligible to play for another D1 university without losing a year of eligibility?

They'd have to sit out a year, regardless of why they transfer. The only exceptions I know of are the Katrina-area players could play right away, and the new rule about 5th-year seniors, who have a diploma. They could go D2, but I don't see that happening either.