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View Full Version : Byron Wesley vs. Kyle Dranginis



jscrk
05-18-2014, 06:35 PM
I am ecstatic to hear that Bryon will be a Zag next year - welcome Byron!!!. My question is who is better: Dranginis or Wesley. Also, my second question: Was Byron the best player on USC last year.

MDABE80
05-18-2014, 06:56 PM
3 years experience in the Pac 10 vs 2 in our league with a soft schedule last year. I'm not sure but Kyle was do everything glue guy. Big value to the team.
Kyle didn't shoot as much as Wesley. Both superior athletes. It's just hard to know. Each different. USC was terrible last year. I'd guess Wesley was the best one they had.which may not be saying much. We'll see.

jyboc
05-18-2014, 07:00 PM
Completely different types of players IMO. I think we'll be happy to have Wesley starting for us!

BobZag
05-18-2014, 07:06 PM
uh boy

GonzaGAW
05-18-2014, 07:11 PM
shooting, dranginis is the better pure shooter, although Wesley shot better at the foul line.
rebounding, 6 a game is pretty good for a small fwd, yet Wesley played about twice the minutes as did dranginis who for limited minutes produced well on the boards. but I give Wesley a slight nod on rebounding.
team player/assist, dranginis has been 3 years in the system, is the better passer in my opinion.
finisher, I give nod to Wesley, he is more athletic and stronger I think, dranginis is more of a finesse finisher.
defense, frankly I haven't seen much tape of Wesley on defense, some have suggested he has not worked at it much. dranginis was growing and improving in defense last year, based upon what I know, give the nod to dranginis.

either one on the floor can be an asset to the team. but I ask myself if dranginis played 30+ minutes a game for usc last year would he have put up the numbers that Wesley did? all conjecture but I do not think so, thus think Wesley is the better player.

but playing time is something else. you know few does not guarantee any player playing time, but you also got to know he sold Wesley on Gonzaga saying if he works on defense, learns the system he has an excellent chance of finding some meaningful playing time.

the better player? no knock on dranginis, what I like to see more than anything is our players improving from year to year and he has done that. teshown thawI ni

ZagsGoZags
05-18-2014, 07:12 PM
We will all be watching to see what Few does with this. To some degree he will let merit determine his decision. I expect KD will start at the 3 early in the season. Wesley has a big problem which is to learn our system quickly and to the degree that it will become somewhat second nature to him. By early December it will be fun reading GU Board about this topic, especially if Wesley seems to most observers to be the better overall contributor to what the team needs.

jazzdelmar
05-18-2014, 07:15 PM
Nolo contendere.

Gonezagaga
05-18-2014, 07:32 PM
I haven't seen anything more than clips of Wesley so I don't want to give an opinion on who might be the better player. However, because of his all around game, familiarity with the system AND being able to play multiple positions I think Kyle will avg more minutes per game than Byron does next year. As a a matter of fact I would be willing to wager 2 tickets to a home game the following season against your???? that it turns out that way. This is assuming that both are healthy all year.

Still, I am super excited to have Wesley on the team. You just can't have too many talented players.

jyboc
05-18-2014, 08:30 PM
I'll take that bet, if health is the only stipulation :D

Zagtana
05-18-2014, 09:02 PM
Have to wait and see. Over the years we've had several transfers come in with impressive stats and huge expectations. Some have lived up to their billing, some have not (purposely not mentioning any names here). IMO, KD is the man as of now and he has earned the minutes. Wesley will have to live up to his rep and more to take measurable time away from KD. If he does, I see them eventually splitting time about equally.

zagamatic
05-18-2014, 09:26 PM
Time will tell who is the better player. But if Wesley does indeed earn more time as the season goes on, I BELIEVE that we're in for a special season because you know dranginis ain't gonna just let him have it. I'm also very intrigued as to what Nunez will bring to the table this year as he can play the 3,4 or 5 depending on opponents lineups. Insane depth!

WallaWallaZag
05-18-2014, 10:41 PM
Time will tell who is the better player. But if Wesley does indeed earn more time as the season goes on, I BELIEVE that we're in for a special season because you know dranginis ain't gonna just let him have it. I'm also very intrigued as to what Nunez will bring to the table this year as he can play the 3,4 or 5 depending on opponents lineups. Insane depth!

i'm sorry, but saying nunez can play the five is like saying stockton could play the three...even at the 4 nunez is currently a bit of a liability. he can't post up on offense and against legit top 25 bcs level pf's he gets overpowered on defense. if he puts everything together he could be an nba-type small forward and the zags could play him with wesley or dranginis at the 2 for a really big lineup (i know vanzag would approve).

seacatfan
05-18-2014, 10:44 PM
This is just my opinion but I think Nunez is going to totally get lost in the shuffle next year, will only get sporadic minutes.

Zag Man
05-18-2014, 11:13 PM
shooting, dranginis is the better pure shooter, although Wesley shot better at the foul line.
rebounding, 6 a game is pretty good for a small fwd, yet Wesley played about twice the minutes as did dranginis who for limited minutes produced well on the boards. but I give Wesley a slight nod on rebounding.
team player/assist, dranginis has been 3 years in the system, is the better passer in my opinion.
finisher, I give nod to Wesley, he is more athletic and stronger I think, dranginis is more of a finesse finisher.
defense, frankly I haven't seen much tape of Wesley on defense, some have suggested he has not worked at it much. dranginis was growing and improving in defense last year, based upon what I know, give the nod to dranginis.

either one on the floor can be an asset to the team. but I ask myself if dranginis played 30+ minutes a game for usc last year would he have put up the numbers that Wesley did? all conjecture but I do not think so, thus think Wesley is the better player.

but playing time is something else. you know few does not guarantee any player playing time, but you also got to know he sold Wesley on Gonzaga saying if he works on defense, learns the system he has an excellent chance of finding some meaningful playing time.

the better player? no knock on dranginis, what I like to see more than anything is our players improving from year to year and he has done that. teshown thawI ni
I believe having Byron Wesley will be a real benefit to this team since he seems to be an excellent slasher to the basket and has a nice mid-range shot. IMO, Kyle has proven his worth to this team over the last 3 years. He’s an excellent defender and a very good rebounder. He takes the good shot and plays well within the system that the coaching staff is utilizing. If Byron Wesley is going to start over Kyle, it will be because he can play defense as well as Kyle does. We’ll just have to wait to see if he can do that.

I would love to see Angel Nunez playing at the 3 position, as he would be a tough match-up for a lot of other teams. However, Angel needs to be a better defender before he gets meaningful minutes on the court. Sometimes during the past season, he seemed lost on the defensive side of the ball.

cggonzaga
05-18-2014, 11:27 PM
I believe Wesley starts and Nunez backs him up as well as the 4 spot. Just call it a hunch.

bartruff1
05-19-2014, 04:48 AM
I pretty much know what Kyle can do with this team.... until I see what Byron can do within the offensive and defensive systems with his new teammates ....

I will keep my expectations to a minimum.

Recent history has shown that past performance against better competition is no guarantee of future success. All the parts in a engine or a band or whatever have to work together.

I do know this, the best team player will play and the one other will have a great seat to watch the games from.... and that there will be posters who are sure, the best player is not playing...... because Few ....(insert cause here)...

vandalzag
05-19-2014, 07:41 AM
Does not need to be a Kyle vs Wesley. Best players play. Coaches would not have gone after him if they did not think that he was bringing something to the team that was lacking. Lots of depth on the team next year, players pushing for playing time is a good thing. If somebody is injured or does not produce there will be someone waiting in the wings.
The "Few plays favorites" garbage does not carry any truth. If he played favorites he would never bring in a kid like Wesley that will be taking minutes from "established" players.

gonzagafan62
05-19-2014, 07:49 AM
This is just my opinion but I think Nunez is going to totally get lost in the shuffle next year, will only get sporadic minutes.

Very possible, but if someone gets injured, its nice to have him on the bench. Plus with Karno and/or Wiltjer, maybe even Sabonis (possibly), and I stress possibly A LOT of things would have to happen for that too, but remember we get Nunez for the next two seasons, so this is a good thing for the Zags. He can learn from some great guys.

hooter73
05-19-2014, 08:33 AM
This is just my opinion but I think Nunez is going to totally get lost in the shuffle next year, will only get sporadic minutes.

He is still on my hot list to follow GC imo. I sure hope not. He is young and has more time to put it all together but util he does, then yes, lost in the shuffle is probable.

Ekrub
05-19-2014, 08:43 AM
This is just my opinion but I think Nunez is going to totally get lost in the shuffle next year, will only get sporadic minutes.

Maybe, but if his ultimate goal is the NBA... This might be one of the better places for him to develop

gonzagafan62
05-19-2014, 08:50 AM
Maybe, but if his ultimate goal is the NBA... This might be one of the better places for him to develop

No joke. Especially since next year would be his senior year. I really see a lot in this kid. I think he could be very helpful to the team over the next two years (hope he stays.)

titopoet
05-19-2014, 09:06 AM
uh boy

+1000 vs plus thousand.

BULLDOG#1
05-19-2014, 09:07 AM
I see KD playing more minutes at the shooting guard. Bell's health is in question and has been for a couple of years.
Unpopular as it may be, the most efficient lineup might look like: Pangos, Dranginis, Shem, KW, and Wesley (if he comes).
Bell would likely get starters minutes, but come off the bench for either the offensive spark or defensive stopper.

I know Few is way more loyal than that... but it might make sense.
Just sayin.

BTB
05-19-2014, 09:32 AM
Having not watched Byron play other than highlights, his stats and the way he plays the game does not seem like it will suit our team as well as Dranginis'. Dranginis is the better shooter, better passer, most likely the better defender, and they are about the same rebounding with Byron having a slight advantage. They only thing I see Wesley being better at, on paper, is being aggressive and shooting a lot. I don't really see him being allowed to shoot that much next year, so if he shows he can still be effective and increase his efficiency with fewer attempts next year as well as improving his defense, then he might have a shot at starting. Pangos, Bell, Dranginis, Wiltjer, Coleman, Dower, and Karno all could have averaged 18 a game last year if they were taking 13-14 shots a game. There's not many shots available on our roster, especially with the other newcomers coming in.

He will have to adjust his game, which there's no reason to believe he won't be able to do. But Dranginis' game already suits our system incredibly well and he will be even better next year than he was this year! One thing is for sure, it is going to exciting having a position battle at the 3, they will push each other to improve!

sullyzag66
05-19-2014, 09:45 AM
I see KD playing more minutes at the shooting guard. Bell's health is in question and has been for a couple of years.
Unpopular as it may be, the most efficient lineup might look like: Pangos, Dranginis, Shem, KW, and Wesley (if he comes).
Bell would likely get starters minutes, but come off the bench for either the offensive spark or defensive stopper.

I know Few is way more loyal than that... but it might make sense.
Just sayin.

Bell tweeted this late last night:


@GBell_5: Making a change.. It's gonna help me in the long run #ZagGreatness

Wonder what that means? Redshirt to get healthy?


Sent from my iPhone

MDABE80
05-19-2014, 10:10 AM
Considering Gary's been injured every year, a RS might make sense. He's such a good kid and player! I'm thinking his producivity has been lower than it shoul do to injuries he mostly palys through. I don't know what the tweet means but some time to heal might be good for him.

hooter73
05-19-2014, 10:16 AM
either that or personal family stuff. Shouldnt try to guess at it too much but interesting that he put it out there... whatever it is.

exclusivelee
05-19-2014, 10:16 AM
redshirting is the only thing that makes sense for me regarding that tweet. too little info

Travis Knight has the twitter name @ZagGreatness (https://twitter.com/ZagGreatness/)

His website: http://zaggreatness.wordpress.com/

jazzdelmar
05-19-2014, 10:35 AM
Maybe Europe to make a living for his new family. Let the speculation and the concomitant hand wringing begin.

webspinnre
05-19-2014, 10:52 AM
Wow, one vague tweet, and we're all freaking out. Crazy what twitter can do.

DixieZag
05-19-2014, 10:56 AM
Bell tweeted this late last night:



Wonder what that means? Redshirt to get healthy?


Sent from my iPhone

Wow. Have no idea what that means. Hope he clears it up soon or this place will be a grease fire. I hope he's not. . . well, just wait and see.

zag67
05-19-2014, 10:58 AM
This is going to be a crazy five months.

Zagdawg
05-19-2014, 11:00 AM
He's going with paper over plastic.

One ply over two ply.

Burger King over Mcdonalds.

Coors Light over Pabst.

Liquid soap over bar soap.

Cloth diapers over disposable.


Whole lotta drama over not a lot of info.

DixieZag
05-19-2014, 11:03 AM
Considering Gary's been injured every year, a RS might make sense. He's such a good kid and player! I'm thinking his producivity has been lower than it shoul do to injuries he mostly palys through. I don't know what the tweet means but some time to heal might be good for him.

I know I just said it was silly to speculate but. . . .

He had surgery about six weeks ago, right? Might not have been a very good follow up appointment. . .

IF it is a health related issue, I do hope that he does the single most conservative thing b/c he is loaded with talent that hasn't been fully tapped.

zag67
05-19-2014, 11:15 AM
I agree and hope he does what is best for him in the long run. He has a long time to play or coach. We have a group that can survive and let him heal, if that is what is needed.

sittingon50
05-19-2014, 11:28 AM
Actually, ladies & gentlemen, I've retained Gary to go down to the Bay & deliver a personal message to don central.

GoZags
05-19-2014, 11:31 AM
Actually, ladies & gentlemen, I've retained Gary to go down to the Bay & deliver a personal message to don central.

Need to keep my readers a bit closer. I initially read "message" as "massage". Not that there's anything wrong with that.

sittingon50
05-19-2014, 11:36 AM
Well, there may be a head massage involved, GZ. TBD.

NumberCruncher
05-19-2014, 11:44 AM
Maybe Gary's change is to move to point guard. IMO, that would help him in the long run.

jazzdelmar
05-19-2014, 11:52 AM
Maybe Gary's change is to move to point guard. IMO, that would help him in the long run.

Where? Not GU with KP and pt to be Perk...

NumberCruncher
05-19-2014, 12:06 PM
Where? Not GU with KP and pt to be Perk...


I think his best chance to make money later on is at point guard. A bunch of point guard minutes have opened up with DS gone. Few appears to like using multiple point guards.

SteelZag
05-19-2014, 12:20 PM
redshirting is the only thing that makes sense for me regarding that tweet. too little info

Travis Knight has the twitter name @ZagGreatness (https://twitter.com/ZagGreatness/)

His website: http://zaggreatness.wordpress.com/

That tweet may have some merit as a RS would make a lot of sense. The situation may be related to ZagaZags comments over the weekend in a thread that got pulled when he eluded to the roster looking way different this season. Apparently that thread got out of control.

Gary taking a RS would solve so many problems. First, it would help his health in the long run and second, it would help with playing time for our extremely talented guards. I've read a lot of posts saying the newcomers would all see productive minutes, but in reality there would not be the minutes available. Also, the guard situation for 2014-2015 would be more than adequate.

If true, and being that this post is still up, it may have some merit. Now we can all decide on a new lineup.

Will it be KP, KD and Wesley? JP, KP and KD? KP, SM and Wesley? I'm drooling over the possibilities.

cjm720
05-19-2014, 12:40 PM
Bell tweeted this late last night:

@GBell_5: Making a change.. It's gonna help me in the long run #ZagGreatness

Wonder what that means? Redshirt to get healthy?


Sent from my iPhone

wowser....quite a tweet...what a fun offseason!

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-19-2014, 01:14 PM
Can we move all of the tangential Bell Twitter speculation to a new thread?

DixieZag
05-19-2014, 01:14 PM
wowser....quite a tweet...what a fun offseason!

The #ZagGreatness seems to assuage any concerns about transferring.

I think Gary is the most likely of our current players to land a D-! coaching job in the future. It is fun to think about Few coaching another 15 years and then handing it over to a guy like Gary.

gonzagafan62
05-19-2014, 01:24 PM
The #ZagGreatness seems to assuage any concerns about transferring.

I think Gary is the most likely of our current players to land a D-! coaching job in the future. It is fun to think about Few coaching another 15 years and then handing it over to a guy like Gary.

If he redshirted, that would be crippling. I don't like that idea AT ALL.

But yes, we are taking this way out of proportion for ONE tweet. He might just be changing his major to do what adam does, and then just taking a coaching position afterwards. I don't think a redshirt makes sense at all, if you ask me.

sullyzag66
05-19-2014, 01:33 PM
In hashtag #ZagGreatness we trust.


Sent from my iPhone

ZagLawGrad
05-19-2014, 01:36 PM
Look for KD to share more playing time than he would like.

exclusivelee
05-19-2014, 02:01 PM
Ryan Edwards joins in:


Ryan Edwards ‏@25ryan
What do I wanna be? What do I wanna become? What does it take? #ZagGreatness
2:30 PM - 19 May 2014
https://twitter.com/25ryan/status/468504031015751680

Compare to Bell's tweet:


Gary Bell Jr. ‏@GBell_5
Making a change.. It's gonna help me in the long run #ZagGreatness
9:27 PM - 18 May 2014
https://twitter.com/GBell_5/status/468246641175461888

sittingon50
05-19-2014, 02:13 PM
Zags are loaded for bear this year. Unless it's a physical issue, a RS makes no sense. This team needs to make a deep run NOW.

americasteam
05-19-2014, 02:25 PM
Ryan Edwards joins in:



Compare to Bell's tweet:

These 2 tweets sound to me like the team has been working with someone regarding positive motivation and talking about what you want to accomplish, and what do you need to do to get there. PMA Positive Mental Attitude type stuff. "Making a change" could mean that Gary is telling himself he is gonna make a change to be great ie get up at 6:00 AM and do ball handling everyday til November, or Ryan saying he's going to do what it takes ie lifting in the offseason consistently.

Awesome!

mattydog73
05-19-2014, 02:34 PM
redshirting is the only thing that makes sense for me regarding that tweet. too little info

Travis Knight has the twitter name @ZagGreatness (https://twitter.com/ZagGreatness/)

His website: http://zaggreatness.wordpress.com/

Exactly what I thought as well when I read that re: Travis Knight = #ZagGreatness

...great minds and all....we shall see.

Zagdawg
05-19-2014, 02:43 PM
Nailed it--- Sherlock Zagness solves the mighty tweet mystery.

maynard g krebs
05-19-2014, 03:16 PM
If he redshirted, that would be crippling. I don't like that idea AT ALL.

But yes, we are taking this way out of proportion for ONE tweet.

I don't think a redshirt makes sense at all, if you ask me.

Gary is as vital as anyone to a big year next year. Try to throw anyone else into his role and the team takes a big hit imo. Team drops from top 10 to top 20 without him, just as it would without KP or PK or KW.

We see all these posts about him coming off the bench and stuff, like one of the fr are gonna beat him out, so might as well RS him. Laughable unless he's too crippled to play.

Hoopaholic
05-19-2014, 03:22 PM
he is refocusing, reprioritizing and retooling for his senior year.....nothing more and we will see a dynamic duo on the court

DixieZag
05-19-2014, 03:33 PM
he is refocusing, reprioritizing and retooling for his senior year.....nothing more and we will see a dynamic duo on the court

Sounds good to me.

This is my favorite interpretation yet.

VaBeachZAG
05-19-2014, 04:00 PM
he is refocusing, reprioritizing and retooling for his senior year.....nothing more and we will see a dynamic duo on the court

Sound and logical reasoning here!

WallaWallaZag
05-19-2014, 05:18 PM
could be that he is planning to slim down a bit...i've felt that gb2 has lost some of his prior athleticism and it might not all be due to injury...

Zippyzaggy
05-19-2014, 06:57 PM
I've got an idear. Why doesn't someone ASK him to elaborate?

It might take all the fun out of the rabid speculatin, but maybe, jeeeest maybe, he'd let us in on what he means?

And, I'd love to ask him... but I am not his facebook buddy or twitter pally, nor am I going to be on campus anytime soon, so there's that. Maybe zagazags could offer some assistance?

ZagaZags
05-19-2014, 06:59 PM
I've got an idear. Why doesn't someone ASK him to elaborate?

It might take all the fun out of the rabid speculatin, but maybe, jeeeest maybe, he'd let us in on what he means?

And, I'd love to ask him... but I am not his facebook buddy or twitter pally, nor am I going to be on campus anytime soon, so there's that. Maybe zagazags could offer some assistance?

I got nothing.

ZagLawGrad
05-19-2014, 06:59 PM
Zags are loaded for bear this year. Unless it's a physical issue, a RS makes no sense. This team needs to make a deep run NOW.

For the first time in a long time, I am feeling that a deep run is a real possibility.

Mantua
05-19-2014, 08:26 PM
For the first time in a long time, I am feeling that a deep run is a real possibility.
As a fan, I'm just happy have a good team. When I think about the Seniors, I want them to have something truly wonderful to look back on.

willandi
05-19-2014, 08:54 PM
I pretty much know what Kyle can do with this team.... until I see what Byron can do within the offensive and defensive systems with his new teammates ....

I will keep my expectations to a minimum.

Recent history has shown that past performance against better competition is no guarantee of future success. All the parts in a engine or a band or whatever have to work together.

I do know this, the best team player will play and the one other will have a great seat to watch the games from.... and that there will be posters who are sure, the best player is not playing...... because Few ....(insert cause here)...

...started the French Revolution! That darn Few!

DixieZag
05-19-2014, 09:22 PM
...started the French Revolution! That darn Few!

It wouldn't be a board and we wouldn't be fans without people calling out the coach on who is playing. The best player on any football team is the back-up quarterback, the back-up goalie is always just ready to explode if he can just get two straight games in, the guy on the bench can hit for more power. . . .

It's silly to lean back and say not worry about it - fun to talk about, none of us will ever have to be proven right, which is the real luxury.

ZagaZags
05-19-2014, 11:45 PM
I am ecstatic to hear that Bryon will be a Zag next year - welcome Byron!!!. My question is who is better: Dranginis or Wesley. Also, my second question: Was Byron the best player on USC last year.

Both are very good players but if I was a betting man, I would bet the ranch that Wesley gets more minutes next season for the Zags. Wesley was a fantastic get for GU. There will be some great competition for playing time next season.

Hoopaholic
05-20-2014, 06:01 AM
Both are very good players but if I was a betting man, I would bet the ranch that Wesley gets more minutes next season for the Zags. Wesley was a fantastic get for GU. There will be some great competition for playing time next season.

how big is the ranch?

realtydog
05-20-2014, 07:04 AM
I would bet the ranch, the IRA and anything else I have that Wesley plays more for the Zags next year than Kyle---a sure bet

willandi
05-20-2014, 07:07 AM
It wouldn't be a board and we wouldn't be fans without people calling out the coach on who is playing. The best player on any football team is the back-up quarterback, the back-up goalie is always just ready to explode if he can just get two straight games in, the guy on the bench can hit for more power. . . .

It's silly to lean back and say not worry about it - fun to talk about, none of us will ever have to be proven right, which is the real luxury.

It was humor! It was the American Revolution, not the French that Few started! I was just filling in the blanks!

cggonzaga
05-20-2014, 07:11 AM
I would bet Zaga's life on it!

ZagaZags
05-20-2014, 11:28 AM
I would bet Zaga's life on it!

http://www.survivingcollege.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Macaulay-Culkin-Home-Alone-Scream-GIF-2.gif

Baseline
05-20-2014, 12:23 PM
Its tempting to take the bet, more land is always a plus.
I would put my money on KD. In my opinion he was the all around best player on the floor for Gonzaga. He will not be displaced easily by a new guy that has to learn the system and get used to the other players. In my opinion Kyle is on the verge of exploding to the next level and taking over the team. His one negative is that he defers too much to others, if it was not for that I think he would already be the team leader.

Baseline
05-20-2014, 01:03 PM
I was very pleased to see Ryan's tweet, it looks like he is taking working to get to the next level very seriously. The last person to really take it seriously was Olynyx. Kelly was close to obsessed in is efforts, if Ryan does the same he could see similar results.
Its my opinion that Ryan has the body build that can make a massive physical jump. KW by comparison does not and I expect his hard work to pay off in a new and improved KW, but that's all it will be. Ryan on the other hand can become physically dominating and if he can add a face up game to his playing he could be GU's all time best center.

zag buddy
05-20-2014, 01:16 PM
+1

seacatfan
05-20-2014, 01:21 PM
Several posters have agreed that Dranginis was the Zags' best player last year. I just didn't see it. Definitely a contributor and versatile. I also don't see him exploding offensively next year. If Pangos & Bell are healthy, if Karnowski improves marginally from last year, if Wiltjer and Wesley are half as good as advertised, there just aren't going to be many shots available for KD.

I also think if Wesley doesn't eventually beat out KD to start at the 3, it's questionable if it was even worth taking on a one year of eligibility transfer. The Zags really don't need him to bolster bench depth or be a role player. He's being brought in to provide something GU hasn't had for a while, someone with a scorers mentality at the 3. Wesley also isn't going to get a ton of shot opportunities, nothing like last year for USC. But the 3 has really been a weak link for the Zags for years and the coaching staff must think Wesley is a fix to that issue.

maynard g krebs
05-20-2014, 02:01 PM
Several posters have agreed that Dranginis was the Zags' best player last year. I just didn't see it. Definitely a contributor and versatile. I also don't see him exploding offensively next year. If Pangos & Bell are healthy, if Karnowski improves marginally from last year, if Wiltjer and Wesley are half as good as advertised, there just aren't going to be many shots available for KD.

I also think if Wesley doesn't eventually beat out KD to start at the 3, it's questionable if it was even worth taking on a one year of eligibility transfer. The Zags really don't need him to bolster bench depth or be a role player. He's being brought in to provide something GU hasn't had for a while, someone with a scorers mentality at the 3. Wesley also isn't going to get a ton of shot opportunities, nothing like last year for USC. But the 3 has really been a weak link for the Zags for years and the coaching staff must think Wesley is a fix to that issue.

Agree. Dranginis does a lot of things well and contributes in several areas, but I see him as Mike Hart with a little more offensive game. Great sub and rotation guy, but a level below the 3's on the nation's top 10-15 teams imo.

Zagger
05-20-2014, 02:22 PM
I think Draino will be a top Zag this coming season. He's got what it takes and he'll have lots of talent around him to play with - to up his efforts and to learn from. Regardless of who the starting 5 are coming up the Zags will have the depth to make a win against them awfully hard to accomplish. If we didn't have such nice summers here in Spokane I'd be wishing for November right now!

75Zag
05-20-2014, 02:39 PM
If there was ever a case of being "recruited over", I think it is the Bulldogs making Wesley an offer. I like Dranginis, but I think he just got kicked to the curb at least for 2014 - 2015. Does he have a red shirt year available? If I was him I would use it.

Go Bulldogs - Next Year!

Baseline
05-20-2014, 02:41 PM
Some great comments pro and con on KD and Wesley and hard to argue with any of them. This is one we will probably just have to wait and see on. Part of why I lean KD is the fact that Wesely shoots a lot. If KD shot as much he would have similar numbers imho. If Wesley comes in and shoots a lot he will be taking shots away from the regulars, this could be disruptive, depending on how they react. Team chemistry will be the decider in all likelihood.

exclusivelee
05-20-2014, 03:21 PM
I like Dranginis, but I think he just got kicked to the curb at least for 2014 - 2015. Does he have a red shirt year available? If I was him I would use it.

He used a redshirt for 2011-12 season

maynard g krebs
05-20-2014, 03:24 PM
If there was ever a case of being "recruited over", I think it is the Bulldogs making Wesley an offer. I like Dranginis, but I think he just got kicked to the curb at least for 2014 - 2015. Does he have a red shirt year available? If I was him I would use it.

Go Bulldogs - Next Year!

Came in with Gary and Kevin and used his rs fr yr.

I disagree with this post. I would say "filled a need" (for a dynamic scorer at the 3) rather than "recruited over", and he'll still be a valuable part of the rotation and get plenty of pt. A glue guy off the bench is very valuable. " Kicked to the curb" is really pretty ridiculous, don't you think?

Grownups should think about what they say for public consumption before barfing out really stupid and incendiary comments.

75Zag
05-20-2014, 04:00 PM
As a veteran fly fisherman, I almost decided to not rise to the bait on this one, but what the heck.

If GU was Kentucky and they had an existing 3 sitting on their bench (perhaps some 4-5 star kid) and they recruited a player with national prominence (which I think Wesley has) to play the 3, would you not think that the 4-5 star kid had been recruited over? I would. Notwithstanding all the warm and fuzzy GU speak about how we all love each other and embrace the Jesuit mission, if Dranginis was the be-all-and-end-all 3 of the GU BB program, why bring in a nationally recognized star with 1 year of eligibility to play at that same position? This is not junior high volleyball where every player is loved the same and gets equal playing time. This is kill-or-be-killed men's NCAA basketball.

I do apologize for the "kicked to the curb" comment. In my day job we frequently use that term for a variety of situations to describe who lost and who won. No disrespect to KD or his family.

Go Bulldogs - Next Year!

CDC84
05-20-2014, 04:25 PM
Several posters have agreed that Dranginis was the Zags' best player last year. I just didn't see it. Definitely a contributor and versatile

I don't know if many people ever said that he was the best player on the team, but that he was the most complete player on the team. There's a difference. He is the most efficient player on the roster according to kenpom.com, but a lot of it is just common sense. There wasn't a Zag on the roster last year - nor will there be a Zag on the roster this year - who does more things well than Kyle Dranginis. He's basically the only guy on the roster without a glaring weakness. Except maybe foul shooting and his handle when serving as a primary ballhandler (which he only does during mop up duty).

The problem is that he doesn't do any one thing great, although he's starting to blossom defensively. That's why I put well in italics. For example, he's never going to score at the level of a Wesley or Pangos (when Kev is healthy). Few will get one thing if he starts Wesley, and he will get another thing if he starts Dranginis. Both are capable starters in my book. It's nice to have the choice.

But my gut feeling is that Few is going to choose Wesley. Few is an offense first guy, and the addition of Wesley gives him five guys who can get him 20 on any given night. If he wants to toughen up the defense, he can bring in K-Drang and pair him with Bell and Karnowski.

Zippyzaggy
05-20-2014, 04:47 PM
[QUOTE=sullyzag66;1017087]Bell tweeted this late last night:
@GBell_5: Making a change.. It's gonna help me in the long run #ZagGreatness

Wonder what that means? Redshirt to get healthy?

After all the hand wringing and speculating...Finally, we have the answer...and it is HORRIBLE- Bell is going to be eatin healthier!!!

Gary Bell Jr. ‏@GBell_5 ∑4h
My change is eating healthier. I'm not leaving Gonzaga lol #HealthyLiving

Sorry to hijack the thread but we HAD to get to the bottom of this question....carry on.

seacatfan
05-20-2014, 05:10 PM
I don't know if many people ever said that he was the best player on the team, but that he was the most complete player on the team. There's a difference. He is the most efficient player on the roster according to kenpom.com, but a lot of it is just common sense. There wasn't a Zag on the roster last year - nor will there be a Zag on the roster this year - who does more things well than Kyle Dranginis. He's basically the only guy on the roster without a glaring weakness. Except maybe foul shooting and his handle when serving as a primary ballhandler (which he only does during mop up duty).

The problem is that he doesn't do any one thing great, although he's starting to blossom defensively. That's why I put well in italics. For example, he's never going to score at the level of a Wesley or Pangos (when Kev is healthy). Few will get one thing if he starts Wesley, and he will get another thing if he starts Dranginis. Both are capable starters in my book. It's nice to have the choice.

But my gut feeling is that Few is going to choose Wesley. Few is an offense first guy, and the addition of Wesley gives him five guys who can get him 20 on any given night. If he wants to toughen up the defense, he can bring in K-Drang and pair him with Bell and Karnowski.

I know I've seen it a few times where someone specifically called KD the best player, not just the most versatile. Huge difference between those 2 descriptive terms obviously.

exclusivelee
05-20-2014, 05:26 PM
Here's what I wrote last month:


Draino can play the 1, 2, & 3. He passes the ball well (#2 in assist rate), rebounds out of position (much like Mike Hart), can create his own shot, can shoot from long distance, blocks shots, steals (#2 in steal rate).

If we see Kyle Dranginis take the initiative to score, he could be the most important guard we landed from the 2011 recruiting class

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-20-2014, 05:28 PM
If there was ever a case of being "recruited over", I think it is the Bulldogs making Wesley an offer. I like Dranginis, but I think he just got kicked to the curb at least for 2014 - 2015. Does he have a red shirt year available? If I was him I would use it.

Go Bulldogs - Next Year!

Dranginis has known since before he set foot on campus as a freshman that he might not start for several years. He was the third best guard in his freshman class. Knowing that, he still chose to come to Gonzaga. He has been remarkably patient during his tenure. He wisely chose to redshirt as a freshman with an eye toward earning more playing time as an upperclassman. I view his career much like Sam Dower's. Dower was the third best big man in his recruiting class behind Harris and Olynyk. Both players have contributed as reserve players while improving steadily throughout their careers. I fully expect Dranginis to start in his final year on campus, if not next year, and be an important veteran leader to this team after Bell and Pangos graduate. Until then, he provides valuable depth as a big guard who does a lot of things relatively well. His time will come and I think he has the maturity and patience to realize that.

maynard g krebs
05-20-2014, 05:41 PM
If GU was Kentucky and they had an existing 3 sitting on their bench (perhaps some 4-5 star kid) and they recruited a player with national prominence (which I think Wesley has) to play the 3, would you not think that the 4-5 star kid had been recruited over? I would. Notwithstanding all the warm and fuzzy GU speak about how we all love each other and embrace the Jesuit mission, if Dranginis was the be-all-and-end-all 3 of the GU BB program, why bring in a nationally recognized star with 1 year of eligibility to play at that same position?

Go Bulldogs - Next Year!

Not necessarily, but I don't get the analogy. All Ky players have national prominence, and they recruit a half dozen new AA's every year anyway. So if their 5 star stays for his soph yr, it's an anomaly and you have to have more than one player at a position anyway.

As to Dranginis being "recruited over" (and "kicked to the curb"), that infers an assumption that he was the starter-to-be and was somehow deemed inadequate and a replacement was sought, and he was the odd man out. If, however, he's seen as a Pendo/Hart type glue guy and valuable role player off the bench, who does lots of things well but isn't an offensive star, the terms referred to at the beginning of this paragraph become moot.

BTB
05-20-2014, 06:24 PM
As a veteran fly fisherman, I almost decided to not rise to the bait on this one, but what the heck.

If GU was Kentucky and they had an existing 3 sitting on their bench (perhaps some 4-5 star kid) and they recruited a player with national prominence (which I think Wesley has) to play the 3, would you not think that the 4-5 star kid had been recruited over? I would. Notwithstanding all the warm and fuzzy GU speak about how we all love each other and embrace the Jesuit mission, if Dranginis was the be-all-and-end-all 3 of the GU BB program, why bring in a nationally recognized star with 1 year of eligibility to play at that same position? This is not junior high volleyball where every player is loved the same and gets equal playing time. This is kill-or-be-killed men's NCAA basketball.

I do apologize for the "kicked to the curb" comment. In my day job we frequently use that term for a variety of situations to describe who lost and who won. No disrespect to KD or his family.

Go Bulldogs - Next Year!

Sorry, but Wesley is not a "nationally recognized star." He is not even a star in his own conference. He was not a top 20 player in the Pac 12 last year (according to voters). He is going to have to fight tooth and nail for his playing time, as are KD, KW, Sabonis, Nunez, and the rest of the newcomers.

75Zag
05-20-2014, 06:37 PM
Not necessarily, but I don't get the analogy. All Ky players have national prominence, and they recruit a half dozen new AA's every year anyway. So if their 5 star stays for his soph yr, it's an anomaly and you have to have more than one player at a position anyway.

As to Dranginis being "recruited over" (and "kicked to the curb"), that infers an assumption that he was the starter-to-be and was somehow deemed inadequate and a replacement was sought, and he was the odd man out. If, however, he's seen as a Pendo/Hart type glue guy and valuable role player off the bench, who does lots of things well but isn't an offensive star, the terms referred to at the beginning of this paragraph become moot.

You are a clever debater (have I ever told you I was recruited to GU as a member of the debate team but when I arrived I found that the debate team was operated by a weird nun and promptly quit?). Anyway you are trapping me into a more and more sensitive area that I really do not want to go to. Do you think that Kyle Wiltjer transferred to GU out of KY because he decided he would rather play in Spokane than join the rest of his teammates and become an NBA lottery pick? I doubt it. GU has some great players. The Big Pole as center. Wiltjer as the 4. Wesley as the 3. Bell as the 2, although I wonder if Melson may be able to win the spot. And KP as the #1. Hopefully by the NCAA tournament GU won't be substituting more than 2 players off the bench.

Go Bulldogs - Next Year!

CDC84
05-20-2014, 06:45 PM
Here's a question:

How many guys on the current GU roster besides Wesley could average 18.8 PPG against 13 NCAA tournament teams in a single season, both on the road and at home, with the roster than surrounded Wesley at USC. Pangos? When has he ever shown that he score at a high level on the road or on neutral floors against great teams? Bell? Not enough consistency. Wiltjer and Karnowski? Possible, but haven't seen it yet.

And BTW - Wesley had some great shooting percentages in those games. 7/14 against Arizona. 17/29 in two games vs. UCLA. 11/17 on the road at Dayton. 8/13 on the road at Oregon. So he wasn't just hucking up shots.

maynard g krebs
05-20-2014, 07:17 PM
Do you think that Kyle Wiltjer transferred to GU out of KY because he decided he would rather play in Spokane than join the rest of his teammates and become an NBA lottery pick? I doubt it.

I'm guessing that the inference here is that Wiltjer left because he was recruited over, and that you are equating that to Dranginis' situation at GU. If all that guessing is correct, I'd say that they are very different situations for a number of reasons, but primarily in that Wiltjer's game was always a poor fit for UK's style while perfect for GU's. And that he decided that playing in Spokane would be his best shot at showing the pros what he can do, which wasn't possible while watching UK's playground all stars taking turns driving to the hoop and waiting for the occasional kickout for a 3 pointer.

Hoopaholic
05-20-2014, 07:31 PM
Here's a question:

How many guys on the current GU roster besides Wesley could average 18.8 PPG against 13 NCAA tournament teams in a single season, both on the road and at home, with the roster than surrounded Wesley at USC. Pangos? When has he ever shown that he score at a high level on the road or on neutral floors against great teams? Bell? Not enough consistency. Wiltjer and Karnowski? Possible, but haven't seen it yet.

And BTW - Wesley had some great shooting percentages in those games. 7/14 against Arizona. 17/29 in two games vs. UCLA. 11/17 on the road at Dayton. 8/13 on the road at Oregon. So he wasn't just hucking up shots.

Pango, bell and Shem if they were given 17.5 shots per game and the offense was specifically dedicated to them getting the shots

Ekrub
05-20-2014, 07:37 PM
Pango, bell and Shem if they were given 17.5 shots per game and the offense was specifically dedicated to them getting the shots

Wiltjer too.

CDC84
05-20-2014, 07:38 PM
Not sure those guys could produce like that - both in terms of PPG and shooting percentages - against NCAA Tournament teams whose defenses would be designed to stop them. The teams Byron faced were able to take USC out of a lot of things they wanted to do. Usually when you are facing NCAA tournament caliber teams, they can take out a guy if they don't fear anyone else on the roster. The bottom line is that Wesley had to connect on a lot of tough shots that were out of the flow of the offense, and he did so at a high percentage. Just not sure anyone on the GU roster besides him has that capability.

If Gary Bell were offered 17.5 shots per game, would he even take them?? It's a fair question to ask. For 3 years the staff has been badgering him to shoot and drive, and he just won't do it consistently. And Pangos has at times struggled against good defenses when he has another perimeter on the floor who is a none scoring threat. Especially on the road. One of the reasons why I am excited to see Kevin play this year - beyond the fact that he will have a healthy toe - is that defenses will finally not be able to manhandle him. If they try to do that, the offense is potent enough this time to make them pay.

Ekrub
05-20-2014, 08:39 PM
Do you think that pangos bell or wiltjer would be a top 20 player in the PAC-12? I'm pretty confident he will be a good player for us, but I'm guessing he is at best our 3rd option on offense and more likely our 4th.

ZagaZags
05-20-2014, 08:46 PM
Do you think that pangos bell or wiltjer would be a top 20 player in the PAC-12? I'm pretty confident he will be a good player for us, but I'm guessing he is at best our 3rd option on offense and more likely our 4th.

What a great problem to have.

maynard g krebs
05-20-2014, 10:49 PM
Wesley took around 13 shots per game last season.

2wiceright
05-21-2014, 12:02 AM
If Wesley ends up playing at the level CDC was describing (but in a Zag uniform), he could be easily be a top scorer on any given night, and will average in double digits. Same with Pangos, Bell, Wiltjer, and Shem.

To be honest, I'm most excited to see Bell play healthy (it's been almost two years since he's been totally injury free). Both Gary and Kevin (if healed and in top shape) have the confidence and experience to do tremendous damage next year! Kyle D will see as much or more time as Wesley only if he can play with intensity on offense and has the mentality of a scorer (as he does in most other aspects of his game). He sorely needs confidence, something which seems to comes naturally to Wesley (based on past performance against top competition).

All I know for sure is I can't wait for the season to start!!!

gonzagafan62
05-21-2014, 06:40 AM
Wesley is going to be DA bomb. He will take draino's starting spot, and Draino will work into the lineup and be a Mike Hart type player for this season. If Draino works hard this season he will get his shot just like Dower did last year. Just play for the damn team this year, win the whole kit and caboodle, and show off your skills to the world next year.

That's what Zags do. Work their way to the top, get pushed down, yet still flourish in their senior year.

And Hell, Draino has already been a HUGE part of the team the last 2 years. Incredible.

Zagcity
05-21-2014, 06:42 AM
All I know for sure is I can't wait for the season to start!!!

Roger that!

exclusivelee
05-21-2014, 07:27 AM
uh boy

Dooooomed!!

Reborn
05-21-2014, 07:58 AM
Very interesting thread. I like Kyle Dranginis alot, and he improved alot last year. He can do so many things to help the Zags. I believe Wesley will be a very good addition to the team. Both will play, and both will make the team better then the team would have been if Wesley were not a Zag. There shouldn't be any doubt about Wesley being a better offensive player then Kyle. I think CDC's post describes why he is pretty well, so I don't need to say what he did. I believe Kyle will accept the role he plays this year, whatever it is and be a major contributor off the bench.

Once thing is certain, there will not be a need for the small guard team on the floor, and two of the three around 6 foot. I never did like that team while they were on the floor. There was just no way that the small guard offense could beat a team like Arizona, and honestly even compete with them. So the Zags will go deeper in the NCAA Tournament next year, imo. And Wesley is going to be one reason why they will go deeper.

I also think the Zags will be a much better team without Coleman. Wesley has a much better offensive game and is probably a better rebounder.

cjm720
05-21-2014, 09:10 AM
Do you think that pangos bell or wiltjer would be a top 20 player in the PAC-12? I'm pretty confident he will be a good player for us, but I'm guessing he is at best our 3rd option on offense and more likely our 4th.

I definitely think Pangos and Wiljter would be...

basketballzag
05-21-2014, 09:20 AM
Very interesting thread. I like Kyle Dranginis alot, and he improved alot last year. He can do so many things to help the Zags. I believe Wesley will be a very good addition to the team. Both will play, and both will make the team better then the team would have been if Wesley were not a Zag. There shouldn't be any doubt about Wesley being a better offensive player then Kyle. I think CDC's post describes why he is pretty well, so I don't need to say what he did. I believe Kyle will accept the role he plays this year, whatever it is and be a major contributor off the bench.

Once thing is certain, there will not be a need for the small guard team on the floor, and two of the three around 6 foot. I never did like that team while they were on the floor. There was just no way that the small guard offense could beat a team like Arizona, and honestly even compete with them. So the Zags will go deeper in the NCAA Tournament next year, imo. And Wesley is going to be one reason why they will go deeper.

I also think the Zags will be a much better team without Coleman. Wesley has a much better offensive game and is probably a better rebounder.

Byron Wesley will be playing in the NBA after this season and will provide an immediate contribution to whatever team he signs with. He essentially was a one man band (Pete Maravich style basketball) at USC who was consistently double/tripled teamed because he was the only one with talent on the team. Despite the pressure this kid was subjected to on the court he was able to only turn the ball over 2x in a game which is quite remarkable. Wesley brings something else that no one else is talking about and that is his speed and ability to draw fouls (similiar to Pangos in that respect). Wesley choose Gonzaga because he will finally be able to showcase his ability to play on a team and show off other dimensions to his game that were hindered or capped at USC. No one realizes just how complete of a player he is because he was being coached in a rudderless mess at USC. We will be drawing 20% more fouls in 2014-15 than we did in 13-14 with Wesley's addition. Some people just don't realize just how talented this kid really is. To answer CDC's question above who on GUs team could have averaged what he averaged at USC? Not one player on our team could have done with he was able to accomplish.

With that said I do believe 4 of our 5 starters will be playing in the NBA by 2016 and we have never had 4 starters on one of our teams who will play in the NBA. I believe the most we had was 3 at one time. Now if Bell can get healthy and elevate his game a bit we could even see 5 of our 5 starters in the league but realistically we will have 4 of our 5 starters playing in the NBA and not D-league.

DADoZAG
05-21-2014, 09:39 AM
Byron Wesley will be playing in the NBA after this season and will provide an immediate contribution to whatever team he signs with. He essentially was a one man band (Pete Maravich style basketball) at USC who was consistently double/tripled teamed because he was the only one with talent on the team. Despite the pressure this kid was subjected to on the court he was able to only turn the ball over 2x in a game which is quite remarkable. Wesley brings something else that no one else is talking about and that is his speed and ability to draw fouls (similiar to Pangos in that respect). Wesley choose Gonzaga because he will finally be able to showcase his ability to play on a team and show off other dimensions to his game that were hindered or capped at USC. No one realizes just how complete of a player he is because he was being coached in a rudderless mess at USC. We will be drawing 20% more fouls in 2014-15 than we did in 13-14 with Wesley's addition. Some people just don't realize just how talented this kid really is. To answer CDC's question above who on GUs team could have averaged what he averaged at USC? Not one player on our team could have done with he was able to accomplish.

With that said I do believe 4 of our 5 starters will be playing in the NBA by 2016 and we have never had 4 starters on one of our teams who will play in the NBA. I believe the most we had was 3 at one time. Now if Bell can get healthy and elevate his game a bit we could even see 5 of our 5 starters in the league but realistically we will have 4 of our 5 starters playing in the NBA and not D-league.

Dude! Now thereís a prognostication that makes me as giddy as anytime during the 12-13 campaign.

Iím drinking the Kool-aid, BBZ!

With this coming seasonís potential star studded lineup, the future of the program continues to brighten, along with the spotlight on the ZAG staff. I believe they are up to the task, and Iíve got my case of shades on order with delivery scheduled early to mid-November.

There will no doubt be some flameouts along the way, at least I hope there is. In order to know how far the envelope can be pushed, one must expect to bust through it a few times.

Go ZAGS!

Hoopaholic
05-21-2014, 11:18 AM
I definitely think Pangos and Wiljter would be...

yes because they can contribute in their natural positions with greater supporting cast to remove the additional pressures that is placed on them currently

USF
05-21-2014, 11:19 AM
Do you really think the entire starting 5 will be in the NBA? Come on. The big Polish kid definitely has a chance as an NBA role player. Arvidas' kid has not played one game of D-1 college hoops. Pangos is a very good college player, but he is on no NBA draft boards. His lack of size, lack of quickness and inconsistent shot will keep him out the NBA. Gary Bell has never even made an All WCC team. He can be very good at times, but his size and inconsistency will also limit his professional future, at least as shooting guard. If Matt Bouldin and Stephen Gray never made the league (bigger, better passers and scorers), why do you think Gary Bell would?

I don't see Wesley on any mock draft boards either. For the most part, NBA teams have no interest in 5 year college players. Just my opinion.

Baseline
05-21-2014, 11:33 AM
Kyle is a very tough kid mentally, as evident in his playing style. He will fight for his time and will earn descent floor time.

I think Melson will do the same, compete and earn descent floor time.

If Pangos has foot problems or his shooting droughts show I think we may be surprised at Perkins time.

I think the real interesting part of the lineup will be how Few handles the big guys. If I had talent like he has in conjunction with a solid deep guard lineup I would run everyone to death. Fast break like mad, full court press. Do what ever wears the other team down and do it by rotating players. Shoot for getting a 100 points a game and have everyone play very aggressive defense, we can afford to have a few of them foul out.
To me the tools are in place for a deep run and this years wild card is how Few uses these tools. Does he coach conservative and reward his seniors or does he go buy who earns it. How do you maximize the talent he has assembled.

seacatfan
05-21-2014, 12:02 PM
Does he coach conservative and reward his seniors

I think there is a large sample size that indicates the answer to this question is yes.

Angelo Roncalli
05-21-2014, 12:05 PM
I think there is a large sample size that indicates the answer to this question is yes.

Are Carter and Edi part of your sample?

Baseline
05-21-2014, 12:11 PM
If Few stays with the reward system, he may never achieve that deep run that we all are hoping for. Then again I'm not a coach and probably don't know what I'm talking about, just an opinion.

cggonzaga
05-21-2014, 12:26 PM
Do you really think the entire starting 5 will be in the NBA?

No but I do think Wiltjer and Karnowski are locks. I also think Pangos, Bell and Wesly have an outside chance.

Looking into my crystal ball for the future, I'd like my odds with Sabonis and Perkins and possibly Melson.

bigblahla
05-21-2014, 12:29 PM
Do you really think the entire starting 5 will be in the NBA? Come on. The big Polish kid definitely has a chance as an NBA role player. Arvidas' kid has not played one game of D-1 college hoops. Pangos is a very good college player, but he is on no NBA draft boards. His lack of size, lack of quickness and inconsistent shot will keep him out the NBA. Gary Bell has never even made an All WCC team. He can be very good at times, but his size and inconsistency will also limit his professional future, at least as shooting guard. If Matt Bouldin and Stephen Gray never made the league (bigger, better passers and scorers), why do you think Gary Bell would?

I don't see Wesley on any mock draft boards either. For the most part, NBA teams have no interest in 5 year college players. Just my opinion.

Hey this is the Gonzaga board quit with the reality check...;)

Go!! Zags!!!

cjm720
05-21-2014, 12:33 PM
I think there is a large sample size that indicates the answer to this question is yes.

I think he plays the numbers/the odds (another way to look at being conservative...doesn't take risks as much perhaps, i.e.) and the best performers on the court, regardless of what fans perceive as the best players.

Malastein
05-21-2014, 12:48 PM
I definitely think Pangos and Wiljter would be...

I haven't yet seen it from Pangos, granted he wasn't healthy last season. He's a streak shooter with mediocre point skills. Until he is more on a consistent basis, I think he's a 6th man on most PAC 12 teams.

vandalzag
05-21-2014, 01:03 PM
If Few stays with the reward system, he may never achieve that deep run that we all are hoping for. Then again I'm not a coach and probably don't know what I'm talking about, just an opinion.

What is the reward system? Are these "rewards" you speak of not based on merit? Do you have evidence of said "rewards" and their blocking of a deep run in March?

seacatfan
05-21-2014, 01:06 PM
Are Carter and Edi part of your sample?

Those are exceptions of course. Let me put it another way. Few goes with players he feels comfortable having out on the floor for heavy minutes. More often than not those players are upperclassmen, but not always.

vandalzag
05-21-2014, 01:12 PM
Those are exceptions of course. Let me put it another way. Few goes with players he feels comfortable having out on the floor for heavy minutes. More often than not those players are upperclassmen, but not always.

So does every other coach in America. The coaches will play the players that best execute their game plan and offer the best chance to win. Please name one successful coach who had a habit of playing players that did not execute his or her game plan.

2wiceright
05-21-2014, 02:12 PM
I haven't yet seen it from Pangos, granted he wasn't healthy last season. He's a streak shooter with mediocre point skills. Until he is more on a consistent basis, I think he's a 6th man on most PAC 12 teams.

Totally disagree regarding Pangos. Few judges his point guards based on team wins and loses. 2012-13, Kevin was very limited with how many points was asked of him due to the emergence of Olynick (pass to post first everytime) and that included Harris carrying a big load his senior year (as it should). This was the year he hadn't yet proved he couldn't yet put up consistent numbers away from home, except for crunch time.

Last year pre-turf toe and later severe ankle sprain, he proved in our pre season tournaments could put up big points away from home, consistently. Showing he improved greatly in that area, IMO. He wasn't on (The Wooden) All-American watch list for his looks :p (sarcastic...)....

This year Kevin will finally be able to play his natural position (not the 2 point guard line up) and teams won't be able to afford smothering him as not one of the five positions can an opposing team afford to not cover.
I can't wait till this year when a healthy Kevin shines on such a loaded team as team leader!!! Go Zags!

ZenZag
05-21-2014, 03:19 PM
So does every other coach in America. The coaches will play the players that best execute their game plan and offer the best chance to win. Please name one successful coach who had a habit of playing players that did not execute his or her game plan.

I didn't think this was (always) the case last season with our 3 guard line up. Yet that starting line up never varied...except in the case of injury. I would like to see a little more fluidity in the starting line up personally. I think it would make it harder on opposing teams to game plan for us. I thought I had heard Few say on occasion that who gets the start is not really a big deal in his system. If that is the case then let's shake it up a bit. We should have the depth of talent next year to do just that.

Reborn
05-21-2014, 03:23 PM
Kevins toe and ankle injuries may have been most severe in the game against Arizone in the NCAA tournament. Yet, he scored 27 points. The point guard for Arizona is a very very good Pac 10 point guard, and yet Pangos, imo outplayed him in THAT game. Don't consider Pangos out of any situation, including the NBA because he is one hell of a player, and one of the toughest around. Kevin would have had an unbelievable season last year, imo had those injuries not occurred. If how Basketballzag describes Wesley is correct then the Zagss will have one hell of a team. You'll have three great scorers who can score from multiple spots on the court and get to the line frequently and shoot a high percentage from the line. They can attack the rim. There will be someone besides Kevin who the team can throw the ball to with 10 seconds or less on the shot clock. Yes, I'm talking about Wiltjer, Pngos and Wesley. Then surround these guys with spot on deadly 3 pt shooters (Bell, Melson, Dranginis) and a very good point guard off the bench (Perkins), and oh yes throw in two very good low post players and you have a team that CAN go deep in the NCAA tournament.

USF
05-21-2014, 04:03 PM
Pangos scored 12 against Arizona, not 27. And he had a -21 for the game. 12 points, 4 TOs and 0 assists. He was overwhelmed by the U of A guards, as were many other opponents.

seacatfan
05-21-2014, 04:26 PM
So does every other coach in America. The coaches will play the players that best execute their game plan and offer the best chance to win. Please name one successful coach who had a habit of playing players that did not execute his or her game plan.

EASY. John Calipari. Done. He rides it out early in the season with freshman making bone headed errors and then goes to the Final 4 with them...at least when they don't end up in the NIT instead.

Come on, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Some coaches have a bit more tolerance for players making errors than others. How many other coaches in the country would've played Stockton and Hart as many minutes as Few did if they had GU's roster from the last several years? I'm guessing not very many.

Zagdawg
05-21-2014, 04:54 PM
Are these the same players that helped to get the Zags to their 1st #1 ranking and #1 seed in the history of the program. The Zags are happy with having these guys playing on the team with some of the things they helped accomplish.
Go Zags

seacatfan
05-21-2014, 05:16 PM
Are these the same players that helped to get the Zags to their 1st #1 ranking and #1 seed in the history of the program. The Zags are happy with having these guys playing on the team with some of the things they helped accomplish.
Go Zags

That stuff was nice, but really it's just a foot note now. I'd rather have a first Final 4 in program history. That really goes a lot further in terms of accomplishments.

GoZags
05-21-2014, 05:25 PM
Pangos scored 12 against Arizona, not 27. And he had a -21 for the game. 12 points, 4 TOs and 0 assists. He was overwhelmed by the U of A guards, as were many other opponents.

So glad you're around to set the record straight ... kinda like PTI's "stat-boy". As long as it keeps you happy and motivated.

Once and Future Zag
05-21-2014, 05:35 PM
I think Wesley and Dranginis are going to be great complements to each other at the 3 - and I see them splitting it pretty evenly.

Right now Drang's got
1) Experience at GU with both his teammates and Few
2) Good defensive skills
3) A well balanced offensive game

Wesley has:
1) Slashing/athletic skills (while being somewhat less TO prone as Coleman)
2) Lots of experience
3) Burning desire to play in the big dance

It's a win/win if each player can give 18-20 minutes per game without having to pace themselves as much - if you know the guy waiting on the bench isn't number 2, but number 1a or 1b, then you have a safety net

Some games may need more KD and some more BW, but in the end I expect at the end of the year they'll both be over 15 minutes per game, but be more efficient in those minutes.

jazzdelmar
05-21-2014, 05:42 PM
I think there will be games this year when the Zags play five newcomers together -- Perk, Melson, Wesley, KW and the Bonus.

USF
05-21-2014, 06:02 PM
I'm surprised nobody corrected him. He only got his scoring total wrong by 15 points.

OZZY
05-21-2014, 08:21 PM
Totally disagree regarding Pangos. Few judges his point guards based on team wins and loses. 2012-13, Kevin was very limited with how many points was asked of him due to the emergence of Olynick (pass to post first everytime) and that included Harris carrying a big load his senior year (as it should). This was the year he hadn't yet proved he couldn't yet put up consistent numbers away from home, except for crunch time.

Last year pre-turf toe and later severe ankle sprain, he proved in our pre season tournaments could put up big points away from home, consistently. Showing he improved greatly in that area, IMO. He wasn't on (The Cousy?) All-American watch list for his looks :p (sarcastic...)....

This year Kevin will finally be able to play his natural position (not the 2 point guard line up) and teams won't be able to afford smothering him as not one of the five positions can an opposing team afford to not cover.
I can't wait till this year when a healthy Kevin shines on such a loaded team as team leader!!! Go Zags!

Thanks Twice!

I couldn't have said it better myself, and I was on the KP bandwagon before he was even in GU's sights.

cjm720
05-21-2014, 09:18 PM
Pangos scored 12 against Arizona, not 27. And he had a -21 for the game. 12 points, 4 TOs and 0 assists. He was overwhelmed by the U of A guards, as were many other opponents.

Pangos sprained his ankle mid first half...might explain his off day.

MDABE80
05-21-2014, 10:23 PM
I'm surprised nobody corrected him. He only got his scoring total wrong by 15 points.

Sounds like ur havin a bad day USF. All this correctin and such;)

Mantua
05-21-2014, 10:32 PM
I think there will be games this year when the Zags play five newcomers together -- Perk, Melson, Wesley, KW and the Bonus.

Maybe in some of the many games when we're 25 points ahead!

ZagaZags
05-21-2014, 11:40 PM
I'm surprised nobody corrected him. He only got his scoring total wrong by 15 points.

We always enjoy a troll that steps in for a visit. How is Cody Doolin doing?

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1371610794743533_animate.gif

Sarenyon
05-22-2014, 05:26 AM
With Byron not there for the complete summer, he is finishing his USC degree, I think that KD will start. However, that will probably change 4 to 6 games into the season and Byron will get more minutes than KD per game when it is all said and done. I still see KD averaging about 22 min per game though.

USF
05-22-2014, 06:25 AM
Why didn't anyone correct him? Seems weird. But when I point out the mistake, I'm a troll? Or having a bad day? Not at all. And Cody Doolin is doing well. He graduated last week. How is Gerard Coleman doing?

SteelCityZag
05-22-2014, 06:30 AM
Gerard is continuing his education and is continuing to play basketball. Cody's experiences seem to have soured him on that prospect. Perhaps better to quit mid-season than be pitted against a teammate in a fight staged by "coach."

I'd be interested to ask both who was treated better.

gonzagafan62
05-22-2014, 06:32 AM
Why didn't anyone correct him? Seems weird. But when I point out the mistake, I'm a troll? Or having a bad day? Not at all. And Cody Doolin is doing well. He graduated last week. How is Gerard Coleman doing?

Simple mistake. If I would have seen this I probably would have corrected the guy because he was off by so much. Pangos was back in the locker room for part of the game, and it reminded me of WWF 93 when they used to have screen shots of wrestlers watching matches. HAHA.

Gerard last I heard was Boston bound, and is going to play hoops next season. Doesn't sound like he was too happy with what transpired, but hopefully he has no ill will or feelings towards GU

vandalzag
05-22-2014, 06:36 AM
EASY. John Calipari. Done. He rides it out early in the season with freshman making bone headed errors and then goes to the Final 4 with them...at least when they don't end up in the NIT instead.

Come on, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Some coaches have a bit more tolerance for players making errors than others. How many other coaches in the country would've played Stockton and Hart as many minutes as Few did if they had GU's roster from the last several years? I'm guessing not very many.

You just made my point . Kentucky misses the dance and flames out in the first game of the NIT. Calipari says kids did not buy into the system, did not defend, and were too focused on themselves. Kentucky struggled early this year because of the same reasons. When the the kids started playing the way he wanted and within the system the team succeeded.

Lets see Stockton among the career leaders in steals and assists(led the team in both last year), while playing as a reserve for 3 years. Mike Hart was the best defensive player and best rebounder his last two years in the program. Both were walk on players who earned their time. Without Stockton this last year, and due to the injuries to Bell and Pangos, Zags do not make the tourney. Without Hart the previous year the Zags do not get a number 1 seed. Both kids would play for the majority of teams in the country, saying the minutes they played was because Few was playing favorites is ignorant. Few, like every other coach, tolerates mistakes when the mistake occurs within the frameworks of the program.

vandalzag
05-22-2014, 06:42 AM
Gerard is continuing his education and is continuing to play basketball. Cody's experiences seem to have soured him on that prospect. Perhaps better to quit mid-season than be pitted against a teammate in a fight staged by "coach."

I'd be interested to ask both who was treated better.

Lets see one player quite because of a fight set by the coach. The other player left because he did not play as much as he wanted. Tough call as to say who was treated worse.

USF
05-22-2014, 06:53 AM
Rex did not set up any fight. That has been debunked over and over. But if you need Rex the Villain, ok ....
I just disagreed with a post. Then the USF and Rex attacks started flying. So you can't disagree with posts without getting attacked?

basketballzag
05-22-2014, 07:06 AM
Do you really think the entire starting 5 will be in the NBA? Come on. The big Polish kid definitely has a chance as an NBA role player. Arvidas' kid has not played one game of D-1 college hoops. Pangos is a very good college player, but he is on no NBA draft boards. His lack of size, lack of quickness and inconsistent shot will keep him out the NBA. Gary Bell has never even made an All WCC team. He can be very good at times, but his size and inconsistency will also limit his professional future, at least as shooting guard. If Matt Bouldin and Stephen Gray never made the league (bigger, better passers and scorers), why do you think Gary Bell would?

I don't see Wesley on any mock draft boards either. For the most part, NBA teams have no interest in 5 year college players. Just my opinion.

Go back and read my post. I said 4 of the 5 starters will play in the NBA (Pangos, Wesley, Shem, & Wiltjer). Didn't mention Sabonis/Perkins/Melson/etc. I said 4 of the starting 5. Now I'm not saying they will be starters in the NBA I'm merely saying each one of them will find themselves in the league at one point or another in their career with some lasting longer than others. And in case you haven't noticed those who play as collegiate basketball as Seniors have been shown to have a bigger immediate impact in the NBA than those who 1 and done freshman.

cjm720
05-22-2014, 07:45 AM
Rex did not set up any fight. That has been debunked over and over. But if you need Rex the Villain, ok ....
I just disagreed with a post. Then the USF and Rex attacks started flying. So you can't disagree with posts without getting attacked?

The disagreement you had wasn't the point of your post. The point of your post was to belittle Pangos. And it is obvious you didn't watch or pay attention to the game and you just looked at the box score. Way to add a lot here, thanks!!!

GUZag08
05-22-2014, 08:32 AM
Rex did not set up any fight. That has been debunked over and over. But if you need Rex the Villain, ok ....
I just disagreed with a post. Then the USF and Rex attacks started flying. So you can't disagree with posts without getting attacked?

We see Rex as the Villain along with the 400,000 starters that have transferred from USF

sittingon50
05-22-2014, 09:04 AM
Why didn't anyone correct him? Seems weird. But when I point out the mistake, I'm a troll? Or having a bad day? Not at all. And Cody Doolin is doing well. He graduated last week. How is Gerard Coleman doing?

I've been banned from your board numorous times with way less attitude than you (& that's not a judgement call).

Appreciate what you can offer. How about dialing it down a couple of notches? Thanks.

gonzagafan62
05-22-2014, 09:06 AM
We see Rex as the Villain along with the 400,000 starters that have transferred from USF

LOL! So true!

USF
05-22-2014, 09:20 AM
"The point of your post was to belittle Pangos."

Not at all. I was just disagreeing with the original poster. It was nothing personal towards Pangos. The poster said he outplayed the "other" Arizona guard and that he scored 27 points. It just wasn't true. I watched the game and looked at the stats. I made an argument and tried to back it up with some facts.

Why is everyone here so defensive?

SteelCityZag
05-22-2014, 09:30 AM
FWIW USF, I have no issue with you correcting any player's quoted stat.

However, regarding Rex not staging the fight there was this...

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_25255825/is-university-san-franciscos-successful-hoops-season-masking

I'm happy to be proven wrong and read from a credible source that Rex's involvement was debunked. Can you provide such a source?

I'm also happy to admit that I was wrong about Cody. He transferred to UNLV and will play this season. Good on him and I wish him nothing but success.

USF
05-22-2014, 09:59 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/USF-coach-Rex-Walters-finds-success-amid-5329217.php

Zagdawg
05-22-2014, 10:20 AM
If this is not encouraging it-- I don't know what is. He even admitted that he should have stopped it and did not.

Rex said, "Hey, do we want to practice or are you guys going to fight?" They said they wanted to fight ... and I should have stopped it.

Just because he felt bad about suggesting it then not stopping it does not mean he did not encourage it.

Baseline
05-22-2014, 10:33 AM
If this is not encouraging it-- I don't know what is. He even admitted that he should have stopped it and did not.

Rex said, "Hey, do we want to practice or are you guys going to fight?" They said they wanted to fight ... and I should have stopped it.

Just because he felt bad about suggesting it then not stopping it does not mean he did not encourage it.

If that was said, Rex has to be pure stupid for not understanding young men's need to bluster and not back down. of coarse thats what they would say and do, he was the adult in the room and needed to put an end to it. Unbelievable!

Angelo Roncalli
05-22-2014, 10:33 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/USF-coach-Rex-Walters-finds-success-amid-5329217.php

Rex's version does not equal debunking in my book. Show the video and let people judge for themselves.

BULLDOG#1
05-22-2014, 10:45 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/USF-coach-Rex-Walters-finds-success-amid-5329217.php

That's a crack-up. Since when is an interview with Rex himself considered 'credible' -- ?? Love the picture, though.

Whatever he does internal to the program, it's ran off a lot of players.
How he represents the school and the program publicly-- well, that's just horrible. That's why outsiders like many zag fans just think he's a punk (the Dower tweets? Really?)
As a fan and student, I would demand a lot more professionalism from Rex, especially at a historic school like USF.

USF
05-22-2014, 10:51 AM
There may be more to the story as well. I have heard lots of rumors about it. The fact that the Dons played better after Cody moved on may be a part of the story. In any event, I didn't expect the Zag fans to be convinced. It's good to have a villain. It makes the games between the Dons and Zags more interesting.

Just watch some interviews with Rex. He loves his players. He speaks very, very highly of Mark Few as well. And Few speaks highly of him.

soccerdud
05-22-2014, 11:26 AM
meh. when i read USF's posts on DC, i generally feel he has little regard for accuracy regarding GU and generally prefers getting shots in to being correct or reasonable.

that being said, nothing he has written in this thread deserves the kind of response it's gotten. stats are stats, and the one thrown out was wrong. really wrong. and should have been corrected by someone. USF did so with very little controversial editorializing (sorry-- but pangos WAS overwhelmed; everyone was except karno; i was there). not much of the rest has seemed like shots or demeaning or w/e.

what's much more interesting to me than rehashing rex/doolin/etc (essentially ganging up on an outsider because he happened to be the one who bothered to get the correct stats for the game in question) on the wesley/draino thread is talking about wesley and draino. but that's just me. carry on as you will.

Kiddwell
05-22-2014, 11:32 AM
There may be more to the story as well. I have heard lots of rumors about it. The fact that the Dons played better after Cody moved on may be a part of the story. In any event, I didn't expect the Zag fans to be convinced. It's good to have a villain. It makes the games between the Dons and Zags more interesting.

Just watch some interviews with Rex. He loves his players. He speaks very, very highly of Mark Few as well. And Few speaks highly of him.

USF and Frisco, happy to have you guys contributing here. Rex is intense. For Zags fans, he's an easy target to poke fun at. The fact is, though, that you guys had a great season (21 wins). Hope your guys are very competitive from here on. This fan thinks we win the WCC next year too, but would love to see the Dons beat up on their OOC opponents, win a lot of conference games (save against us), and be an "at large" team in the Big Dance.

The more teams the WCC sends to the Dance (and NIT), the better.


:]

bigblahla
05-22-2014, 11:54 AM
meh. when i read USF's posts on DC, i generally feel he has little regard for accuracy regarding GU and generally prefers getting shots in to being correct or reasonable.

that being said, nothing he has written in this thread deserves the kind of response it's gotten. stats are stats, and the one thrown out was wrong. really wrong. and should have been corrected by someone. USF did so with very little controversial editorializing (sorry-- but pangos WAS overwhelmed; everyone was except karno; i was there). not much of the rest has seemed like shots or demeaning or w/e.

what's much more interesting to me than rehashing rex/doolin/etc (essentially ganging up on an outsider because he happened to be the one who bothered to get the correct stats for the game in question) on the wesley/draino thread is talking about wesley and draino. but that's just me. carry on as you will.

Definitely OT but I agree with you. Sure are lots of mind readers and first stone casters here. I'm a Zag fan 100% and it boggles my mind how this place operates at times.

I don't take dumping on the Zags lightly and If I haven't jumped on USF other than my sarcastic post about a reality check...which at times is sorely needed here...I find it hard to believe anyone else would object to his posts other than the fact he is a Dons fan.

As far as the spitting contest involving Doolin everybody has 100% hindsight and none of us were there and if it had been going on so long that it finally came to boil...then so be it......

The evidence being the seasons end results indicate Doolin may have been the bad apple in the bunch with an attitude that brought the whole team down...read enough and you'll see that Doolin was the instigator not the victim....as far as Rex's involvement...hey Dad's you got sons?...do they fight...do brothers fight? Are teammates brothers?

Straight up USF you've written some real doozies on Don's Central aimed at the Zags but not here, yet, and therefore I have no issue with anything you've written. Sometimes the holier than thou attitude here is a little stifling.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

GoZags
05-22-2014, 12:53 PM
I think it's great that even though USF corrected Reborn (most of us probably figured Reborn mixed up the Ok State and Az games vis a vis Pangos' scoring) I just love that he also added KP's +/- for the game. It just wouldn't have been a good enough "dig"at Gonzaga to merely correct the scoring total. He had to twist the knife with the -21 tidbit. Very much recognized and appreciated and the type of solid info/contributions that I was hoping for from the artist formerly known as QD.

USF
05-22-2014, 01:18 PM
For the courageous few who have no problem with me posting, I say thank you. For those who are obviously afraid of see differing opinions aired on your board (GoZags), I say goodbye and good luck. Go Dons!

soccerdud
05-22-2014, 01:24 PM
I think it's great that even though USF corrected Reborn (most of us probably figured Reborn mixed up the Ok State and Az games vis a vis Pangos' scoring) I just love that he also added KP's +/- for the game. It just wouldn't have been a good enough "dig"at Gonzaga to merely correct the scoring total. He had to twist the knife with the -21 tidbit. Very much recognized and appreciated and the type of solid info/contributions that I was hoping for from the artist formerly known as QD.

really GZ?

reborn stated that kevin, hurt, "outplayed" UA's pg as part of a larger point. USF thought he looked overwhelmed and gave *correct* stats. that's not twisting the knife (at least not whenever anyone else does it), that's having a position and supporting it with facts. why bother letting them (non-zags) post here at all if you're going to read so much into everything?

god, i can't believe that i find myself in the position of defending this guy, because IMO he is one of the two worst active DC posters in terms of being willing or able to be fair or balanced to zag fans or about zag topics on that board... but apparently we aren't much better. that's disappointing to me. doubly so because i considered you one of our more reasonable mods.

webspinnre
05-22-2014, 01:27 PM
Just because people disagree with you (sometimes strongly) doesn't mean that you aren't allowed to post on this board. If that was the case, close to half of the people here wouldn't be able to post.

soccerdud
05-22-2014, 01:41 PM
Just because people disagree with you (sometimes strongly) doesn't mean that you aren't allowed to post on this board. If that was the case, close to half of the people here wouldn't be able to post.

don't think anyone disagreed with him. instead they read all sorts of things into it and made the conversation about him and the dons in some sort of OT immature one-upsmanship. do you disagree with his stats or the claim that kevin was overwhelmed in that game? does anyone? or do we just hate hearing it from *him*? and if people DO disagree, why aren't we talking about THAT instead of what makes USF feel better about himself and/or doolin and rex? seriously.

gonzagafan62
05-22-2014, 01:54 PM
If this is not encouraging it-- I don't know what is. He even admitted that he should have stopped it and did not.

Rex said, "Hey, do we want to practice or are you guys going to fight?" They said they wanted to fight ... and I should have stopped it.

Just because he felt bad about suggesting it then not stopping it does not mean he did not encourage it.

Byron Wesley vs. Kyle Dranginis

ZagNative
05-22-2014, 01:58 PM
Wow! I keep expecting this thread to self-destruct in a ball of flames. Absolutely useless.

MTZag03
05-22-2014, 01:58 PM
Byron Wesley vs. Kyle Dranginis

I don't see it as versus. I think they will see some floor time together in addition to both spending some time at the 3. I don't see this as recruiting over someone.

Angelo Roncalli
05-22-2014, 02:03 PM
Wow! I keep expecting this thread to self-destruct in a ball of flames. Absolutely useless.

Maybe it could be replaced with a thread about who should redshirt, or who should start. No?

DixieZag
05-22-2014, 02:43 PM
Maybe it could be replaced with a thread about who should redshirt, or who should start. No?

Well, ya, but, to be fair, threads about who should red shirt and who should start are sort of the reason boards exist - so there's that.

USF - no one is intimidated or offended by seeing differing opinions. If you think your opinions rile people up, hang out here during the season and see some of the Zag on Zag crime. Just, posting on another school's board is sort of living visiting a friend's house, yes, you're welcome to be there. But, no, there's not quite the same amount of freedom of expression as in your own home. Plenty of us have had the DC beat cops paddy wagon us out of your guys' house.

BobZag
05-22-2014, 04:29 PM
Has this thread spiraled down the toilet yet?

GoZags
05-22-2014, 05:10 PM
For the courageous few who have no problem with me posting, I say thank you. For those who are obviously afraid of see differing opinions aired on your board (GoZags), I say goodbye and good luck. Go Dons!

And here I thought I was being complimentary of your fact checking skills .... and it's obvious that this Board needs it, because, as you correctly pointed out ... Reborn's incorrect Pangos stat was just sitting out there, unchallenged. Who cares if it didn't have anything to do with the topic at hand? It wasn't correct and only one poster was brave enough to jump in and correct the inaccuracy, and then add additional information for those boardmembers who couldn't quite remember how the Arizona game worked out for Gonzaga. That being said, I'm a bit surprised by the GBCW post ..... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gbcw



GBCW
Acrynym for "Good Bye Cruel World!". Often found on blogs or forums when a member disagrees with a particular subject matter to such a degree that they decide to leave the forum/blog forever. In doing so, they often feel compelled to leave a last message explaining why they feel so wronged/slighted and how they will never post again -- this is the GBCW message.

maynard g krebs
05-22-2014, 05:37 PM
Wow! I keep expecting this thread to self-destruct in a ball of flames. Absolutely useless.

I love this thread so much, it almost makes me forget about............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................................tacos.