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Birddog
04-05-2014, 05:05 PM
This is just awful basketball. 32 mins in and they're barely in the 40's, brutal. Shorten the shot clock and start calling fouls the way they used to please.

maynard g krebs
04-05-2014, 05:16 PM
This is just awful basketball. 32 mins in and they're barely in the 40's, brutal. Shorten the shot clock and start calling fouls the way they used to please.

Agree, except about shortening the clock. Calling the fouls (all of them, on and off ball) should be sufficient.

But the issue is also at the grass roots level. Kids don't grow up learning to pass, screen, and move without the ball so that it becomes instinctive and natural. Hard to teach to college players after years of AAU.

BobZag
04-05-2014, 05:21 PM
How'd ya'll survive the Dean Smith 4-corners days?

duper
04-05-2014, 05:25 PM
Sounds like the NBA. No thanks!

BobZag
04-05-2014, 05:30 PM
So glad UConn won. Defied the "experts." nyuk nyuk nyuk

Birddog
04-05-2014, 05:38 PM
How'd ya'll survive the Dean Smith 4-corners days?
To this day, I absolutely despise Dean Smith for that travesty. That was the worst basketball of all time. 4 corners offense wasn't offense, but it was offensive.

DixieZag
04-05-2014, 05:43 PM
To this day, I absolutely despise Dean Smith for that travesty. That was the worst basketball of all time. 4 corners offense wasn't offense, but it was offensive.

Just unwatchable. I often wondered if even UNC fans liked it.

seacatfan
04-05-2014, 05:46 PM
I didn't watch, sounds like I didn't miss much. Kevin Ollie is making this coaching thing look pretty easy. A bit of a stark contrast to the "Few has only been coaching 15 years, you just have to be patient and he'll get to the Promised Land" line of philosophers. Ollie is in year 2 as a head coach and UConn was ineligible for the Tourney last year, so really this is his first crack at it. What's the big deal, nothing to it, just cruise into the Championship game on your first try.

SunDevilGolfZag
04-05-2014, 05:50 PM
I didn't watch, sounds like I didn't miss much. Kevin Ollie is making this coaching thing look pretty easy. A bit of a stark contrast to the "Few has only been coaching 15 years, you just have to be patient and he'll get to the Promised Land" line of philosophers. Ollie is in year 2 as a head coach and UConn was ineligible for the Tourney last year, so really this is his first crack at it. What's the big deal, nothing to it, just cruise into the Championship game on your first try.

A cheap shot a Few is really reaching, IMO

Oregonzagnut
04-05-2014, 05:52 PM
UConn has elite recruiting but their coaching has been in transition. Impressive team effort.

primal23
04-05-2014, 05:52 PM
I didn't watch, sounds like I didn't miss much. Kevin Ollie is making this coaching thing look pretty easy. A bit of a stark contrast to the "Few has only been coaching 15 years, you just have to be patient and he'll get to the Promised Land" line of philosophers. Ollie is in year 2 as a head coach and UConn was ineligible for the Tourney last year, so really this is his first crack at it. What's the big deal, nothing to it, just cruise into the Championship game on your first try.

Helps when you have a school like UCONN to recruit to.

seacatfan
04-05-2014, 05:58 PM
UConn and Gonzaga is apples and oranges, but let's be honest: NOBODY had UConn in the conversation for National Champion hopefuls this year. NOBODY. I think Ollie is doing a remarkable job. Not only were they ineligible last year, but the last couple years of Calhoun's career were rather unremarkable. This was unexpected and a tribute to Ollie, as well as his players.

bartruff1
04-05-2014, 06:04 PM
A cheap shot a Few is really reaching, IMO

Every MB thread in here has a cheap shot at Few. It has become the culture of this place.

maynard g krebs
04-05-2014, 06:09 PM
I didn't watch, sounds like I didn't miss much. Kevin Ollie is making this coaching thing look pretty easy. A bit of a stark contrast to the "Few has only been coaching 15 years, you just have to be patient and he'll get to the Promised Land" line of philosophers. Ollie is in year 2 as a head coach and UConn was ineligible for the Tourney last year, so really this is his first crack at it. What's the big deal, nothing to it, just cruise into the Championship game on your first try.

I had St Joe's in the first round, and it looked like I was right until Kanicevic fouled out with a couple minutes to go. They were very, very lucky to get out of the first round in overtime. Then they got to play home games in the regional, and got Iowa State w/o Niang.

They've been good, but extraordinarily lucky too.

CDC84
04-05-2014, 06:13 PM
Contrary to what may seem to be the case, this year's UConn team isn't exactly overflowing with blue chip recruits. Ollie has done a heck of a job coaching this team throughout the tournament:

Napier = #98 Rivals, 2010 class
Boatright = #42 Rivals, 2011 class
Giffey = overseas player
Daniels = #10 Rivals, 2011 class
Nolan = #118 Rivals, 2012 class

Brimah = Not Rated Rivals, 2013 class
Samuels = #118 Rivals, 2013 class
Kromah = graduate transfer, George Washington
Olander = Not Rated Rivals, 2010 class

By comparison, the top six players in Gonzaga's 2008/09 rotation were ranked #64 or higher at rivals.com or scout.com

Moreover, he's had to beat some pretty dang good coaches: Billy D., Tom Izzo, and Phil Martelli. Not as big of a fan of Jay Wright, but still, a good coach at this level.

seacatfan
04-05-2014, 06:16 PM
I had St Joe's in the first round, and it looked like I was right until Kanicevic fouled out with a couple minutes to go. They were very, very lucky to get out of the first round in overtime. Then they got to play home games in the regional, and got Iowa State w/o Niang.

They've been good, but extraordinarily lucky too.

Luck is a cruel mistress. Or something like that. You're right, St. Joe's blew it against UConn. North Carolina gave the game away to Iowa St. after having it all but wrapped up. You could probably go thru the bracket and find at least another dozen examples of teams that shouldn't have won or shouldn't have lost a particular game. Whatever they did earlier in the Tourney, UConn beat 2 very good teams in Michigan St. and Florida. You can luck your way into a win or two, but you can't get lucky 6 straight games. Both of those games were low scoring and kinda ugly, the Huskies must be playing some good defense.

seacatfan
04-05-2014, 06:18 PM
Contrary to what may seem to be the case, this year's UConn team isn't exactly overflowing with blue chip recruits. Ollie has done a heck of job coaching this team in the tournament.

Napier = #98 Rivals, 2010 class
Boatright = #42 Rivals, 2011 class
Giffey = overseas player
Daniels = #10 Rivals, 2011 class
Nolan = #118 Rivals, 2012 class

Brimah = Not Rated Rivals, 2013 class
Samuels = #118 Rivals, 2013 class
Kromah = graduate transfer, George Washington
Olander = Not Rated Rivals, 2010 class

By comparison, the top six players in Gonzaga's 2008/09 rotation were ranked #64 or higher at rivals.com or scout.com

Shh! They're UConn and they can recruit a roster full of blue chippers. Don't ruin this with facts.

BobZag
04-05-2014, 06:18 PM
Proof the NIT is better than NCAAs--


@LarryBrownSMU beat UConn twice this year.

seacatfan
04-05-2014, 06:21 PM
Proof the NIT is better than NCAAs--

But lost to Minnesota in the NIT Final...so Minnesota is the real National Champion.

jazzdelmar
04-05-2014, 06:26 PM
This game has a UK Texas Western quality to it, only in reverse. Time flies.

jazzdelmar
04-05-2014, 07:08 PM
Pretty annoying pro UK broadcast

Mantua
04-05-2014, 07:10 PM
Pretty annoying pro UK broadcast


It's about ratings for the championship game and yes, it's very annoying.

jazzdelmar
04-05-2014, 07:14 PM
It's about ratings for the championship game and yes, it's very annoying.

Kerr is a voice in the wilderness. I realize no one can say, it's five white guys vs five black guys, not too PC and in the end meaningless. But it's a twist. Still Greg Anthony is so pro UK it's nauseating. Nantz is a bb moron and goes with what the suits want. Thank god Stevie is there.

Birddog
04-05-2014, 07:19 PM
Kerr is a voice in the wilderness. I realize no one can say, it's five white guys vs five black guys, not too PC and in the end meaningless. But it's a twist. Still Greg Anthony is so pro UK it's nauseating. Nantz is a bb moron and goes with what the suits want. Thank god Stevie is there.
You're channeling my thoughts re Anthony and Nantz. Kerr is the only one with a sense of balance.

ZagaZags
04-05-2014, 07:27 PM
Wow it took me almost an entire half to figure out this game is on 3 channels. TRU TV has the Wisconsin broadcast, TNT has the Kentucky boadcast while TBS has the regular broadcast.

If GU can make the Final Four next year, America gets to hear Greg Heister.

jazzdelmar
04-05-2014, 07:29 PM
Wow it took me almost an entire half to figure out this game is on 3 channels. TRU TV has the Wisconsin broadcast, TNT has the Kentucky boadcast while TBS has the regular broadcast.

If GU can make the Final Four next year, America gets to hear Greg Heister.

TBS is also the UK broadcast.

Heister, wow that's an ugly thought. Maybe Cory and Hudson.

ZagaZags
04-05-2014, 07:30 PM
I was watching the Kentucky broadcast and my son said these announcers suck. I was thinking the same thing.

MDABE80
04-05-2014, 07:34 PM
"Farmboys" are up by 7 early in the 2nd half. It's a good game.

jazzdelmar
04-05-2014, 07:36 PM
"Farmboys" are up by 7 early in the 2nd half. It's a good game.

A great game.

ZagaZags
04-05-2014, 07:37 PM
TBS is also the UK broadcast.

Heister, wow that's an ugly thought. Maybe Cory and Hudson.

No TBS is Jim Nantz and Kerr.
Steve Kerr could sure shoot the rock. I would love to see a Steve Kerr type player join GU.

seacatfan
04-05-2014, 07:37 PM
Wow it took me almost an entire half to figure out this game is on 3 channels. TRU TV has the Wisconsin broadcast, TNT has the Kentucky boadcast while TBS has the regular broadcast.

If GU can make the Final Four next year, America gets to hear Greg Heister.

Please, NOOOOOOOO!

ZagaZags
04-05-2014, 07:39 PM
Crazy.

jazzdelmar
04-05-2014, 07:41 PM
Nantz blatantly cheering.

MDABE80
04-05-2014, 07:42 PM
On Wisconsin!!! Outmanned I think. Bo needs to settle this one down.

ZagaZags
04-05-2014, 07:46 PM
Even UConn can feel the Kentucky momentum.

Birddog
04-05-2014, 07:47 PM
I'm not liking this trend. Pulling for UConn was not one of my options.

ZagaZags
04-05-2014, 07:49 PM
Ben Brust is a little guy. How did they make it to the Final Four?

bballbeachbum
04-05-2014, 07:51 PM
dominating the boards, like watching a high school game with that mismatch because of KUs size advantage, etc.

shooting well eliminates that advantage on one end of the floor; have to keep KU from shooting til they score tho on the other end

bballbeachbum
04-05-2014, 07:52 PM
Nantz blatantly cheering.

I have muted that guy for decades

jazzdelmar
04-05-2014, 07:54 PM
I have muted that guy for decades

How can u mute Masters Nantz and still heAr Stevie Kerr?

bballbeachbum
04-05-2014, 07:55 PM
So glad UConn won. Defied the "experts." nyuk nyuk nyuk

me too. wouldn't mind seeing Ollie win it all

ZagaZags
04-05-2014, 07:56 PM
I have muted that guy for decades

You can always watch TRU TV and listen to the Wisconsin crew.

bballbeachbum
04-05-2014, 07:56 PM
How can u mute Masters Nantz and still heAr Stevie Kerr?

ha! sacrifices must be made evidently ;) I like Anthony too altho I've read this thread

jazzdelmar
04-05-2014, 07:57 PM
Wisky is Princeton with athletes.

bballbeachbum
04-05-2014, 07:57 PM
You can always watch TRU TV and listen to the Wisconsin crew.

yeah I tried it. I like watching the games muted most of the time actually unless I trust the voices

MDABE80
04-05-2014, 08:01 PM
My God Harrison just carries the ball. Why bother dribbling when the refs let him get away with this crap!! Wisconsin= just good basic basketball.

bballbeachbum
04-05-2014, 08:10 PM
look at that call right there...classic referee anticipation call

followed up by the and 1 which was not a foul either, then the smack form KU player

yuck

CDC84
04-05-2014, 08:33 PM
Maybe they should take away that left wing three pointer late in games from Harrison? 3 straight games he has nailed opponents with that shot.

seacatfan
04-05-2014, 08:38 PM
Never mind UConn getting some lucky breaks per earlier in the thread, Kentucky has been lucky in almost all of it's games in the Tourney. And seems to have benefited from the whistles down the stretch in all of its games. Gag. I hate UK, and I don't like UConn much either. I hearby solemnly swear I will not be watching the Title game on Monday. Gag. My soul dies a little bit with this matchup.

Mantua
04-05-2014, 08:42 PM
So how many wildcats are going to be drafted this year? I don't know how Kentucky fans can root for guys who aren't really part of the school. It's just a feeder program. I don't like the basketball prep schools at the high school level either. If the high schools truly gave kids who have nothing but bad options a chance, I could see the the point of the prep schools.

maynard g krebs
04-05-2014, 08:43 PM
Never mind UConn getting some lucky breaks per earlier in the thread, Kentucky has been lucky in almost all of it's games in the Tourney. And seems to have benefited from the whistles down the stretch in all of its games. Gag. I hate UK, and I don't like UConn much either. I hearby solemnly swear I will not be watching the Title game on Monday. Gag. My soul dies a little bit with this matchup.

Agree 100%. Esp. re the whistles. Wiscy robbed.

UKWildcatsFan
04-05-2014, 08:52 PM
Wow this tournament has been wild.

UKWildcatsFan
04-05-2014, 08:56 PM
Agree 100%. Esp. re the whistles. Wiscy robbed.

Did you think Wisconsin was being robbed when one of their players traveled and then was fouled after the fact and then was sent to the line to shoot three free throws with 15-16 seconds left?

CDC84
04-05-2014, 08:59 PM
Kentucky fans have worn out the arms on their chairs during this entire tournament. Talk about living on the edge....

wiszag
04-05-2014, 09:47 PM
Good game, bad result, life goes on. I am really proud of the Badgers.

Birddog
04-06-2014, 04:32 AM
Good game, bad result, life goes on. I am really proud of the Badgers.
+1. I was hoping for some "On Wisconsin".

Martin Centre Mad Man
04-06-2014, 06:36 AM
Never mind UConn getting some lucky breaks per earlier in the thread, Kentucky has been lucky in almost all of it's games in the Tourney. And seems to have benefited from the whistles down the stretch in all of its games. Gag. I hate UK, and I don't like UConn much either. I hearby solemnly swear I will not be watching the Title game on Monday. Gag. My soul dies a little bit with this matchup.

I really don't like either of these programs. UCONN has one of the worst graduation rates is college hoops. Kentucky's coach is about as slimy as any leach in the game.

Bkzag
04-06-2014, 07:15 AM
http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by seacatfan http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=1008813#post1008813)[/COLOR]
Never mind UConn getting some lucky breaks per earlier in the thread, Kentucky has been lucky in almost all of it's games in the Tourney. And seems to have benefited from the whistles down the stretch in all of its games. Gag. I hate UK, and I don't like UConn much either. I hearby solemnly swear I will not be watching the Title game on Monday. Gag. My soul dies a little bit with this matchup.



Martin Centre Mad Man;1008856]I really don't like either of these programs. UCONN has one of the worst graduation rates is college hoops. Kentucky's coach is about as slimy as any leach in the game.


I hate UK and have since Joe B. Hall left and Cal does appear pretty slimy too...and yes, UConn has a horrible record with their kids graduating from school...BUT again, it isn't about graduating but MONEY...need big name schools to be eligible to play in the Dance...

Today it is all about money and the college game is, has gotten all caught up in money...more about entertainment then the game itself...getting like the NBA in that regard.

Wouldn't it be nice to see these games played in smaller venues like they were back in the day BUT IMO GREED dominates our society more and more...

I really hate the "One-and-Dones" and how that has negatively effected College Basketball.

I, too, will not watch the finals on Monday night...maybe I can find a re-run of Lassie or Bonanza or something...


.....

Regarding changing of the rules on calling fouls or shortening the shot clock or the 4-Corner...

I like the fact that they are calling hand/arm bar checking on the defense but it needs to be cleaned up further...the backing down of a player is an Offensive Foul and should also be called and the "Ten Second Back Court" call should not be saved with a time-out...and all jump ball situations should be GREAT DEFENSIVE plays resulting in the defense getting the ball for their efforts...

I like the clock where it is and if it had to be shortened...maybe 30 seconds could work to speed up the game...

I employed the 4-Corner and it was a nightmare to defend and required an extremely solid defensive effort...it seemed that Al McGuire and Marquette had an answer for it back in 1977. It even worked with the shot clock...

wnczagfan
04-06-2014, 11:36 AM
Just unwatchable. I often wondered if even UNC fans liked it.

If I remember correctly, I believe Dean Smith had been a proponent of adding the shot clock to college basketball. When the powers that be didn't listen, he came up with the four corners to basically show them that whoever got the lead could then just keep it for the rest of the game. It was within the rules, very effective, and was a primary reason we have the shot clock we have today.

Birddog
04-06-2014, 12:03 PM
If I remember correctly, I believe Dean Smith had been a proponent of adding the shot clock to college basketball. When the powers that be didn't listen, he came up with the four corners to basically show them that whoever got the lead could then just keep it for the rest of the game. It was within the rules, very effective, and was a primary reason we have the shot clock we have today.
I've never heard that before and I've never heard that Smith's intentions were altruistic. As I understand it, he just wanted to win. I'd love to see a link that says otherwise. Here's one that tells about a particularly egregious insult to basketball.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/03.07.html

TexasZagFan
04-06-2014, 12:13 PM
This game has a UK Texas Western quality to it, only in reverse. Time flies.

Have you ever seen tape of that game, jazz? The final score was 72-65. The pace was pretty quick for no shot clock.

jazzdelmar
04-06-2014, 02:12 PM
Have you ever seen tape of that game, jazz? The final score was 72-65. The pace was pretty quick for no shot clock.

I have and it's a classic. With the Loyola Ramblers vs Miss State game two most important in history of CBB. The Miners were of special interest to me as most of the starters were NYC schoolboys. Loyola star Harkness also a city kid.

wnczagfan
04-06-2014, 02:30 PM
I've never heard that before and I've never heard that Smith's intentions were altruistic. As I understand it, he just wanted to win. I'd love to see a link that says otherwise. Here's one that tells about a particularly egregious insult to basketball.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/03.07.html


That's why I started with "If I remember correctly…" LOL. That way, I don't have to be right!

But seriously, that was my recollection of the whole thing. Perhaps I overstated it, but a few sources that tend to support it:


Art Chansky in "Dean's Domain", Bowman & Littlefield, page 208 - "Ironically, Smith had lobbied for the shot clock, plus the three-point shot for years. When both were instituted, Carolina became one of the highest-scoring and best three-point shooting teams in America."

Bob Holliday on wralsportsfan.com, november 20, 2013 "Because of Smith's use of the delay game, it was widely assumed that he would be against having a shot clock in college basketball. Nothing could be further from the truth….His one stipulation was that there should be a three-point shot component."

Al Wood, a player for North Carolina, as quoted by Barry Jacobs for the news observer.com, February 19, 2014 "This was one of his (Smith) ways of saying, 'OK, if you're not going to put in a shot clock, we're going to hold the ball,…"

Dean Smith, as quoted in the Reading Eagle, March 8, 1982 "I think now that there is so much balance in college basketball a clock would be good." and "I'll go play a 30-second clock tomorrow and I'll vote for it in this conference."

But I do agree, Dean Smith wanted to win! And he would use the rules to his advantage, while at the same time suggesting that they should be changed such as in this instance.

Some other notable things that Dean introduced or made popular:

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/smith-s-innovations-define-current-college-basketball/13137017/

Birddog
04-06-2014, 05:36 PM
Thanks, that clarifies it. I still dislike him for the 4 Corners though, I hated that crap.

DixieZag
04-06-2014, 05:38 PM
I've never heard that before and I've never heard that Smith's intentions were altruistic. As I understand it, he just wanted to win. I'd love to see a link that says otherwise. Here's one that tells about a particularly egregious insult to basketball.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/sports/year_in_sports/03.07.html

I agree it is hard to see Smith's basketball aspirations as altruistic. But, for things off the court, the guy has as big a heart as exists. I remember seeing something about him always encouraging his players to "see reality" and, in particular, let his players skip practice one time to support a student sit in trying to get the cafeteria staff benefits or something akin to that. Allowing them out of practice was told as just "one" story out of many where he wanted his players to look at the world differently.

I think it hit me hard b/c from afar, I really wanted to detest him and then I watched that and just never could again. I suspect he would not be a fan of the direction much of BB is taking these days.

maynard g krebs
04-06-2014, 06:10 PM
Did you think Wisconsin was being robbed when one of their players traveled and then was fouled after the fact and then was sent to the line to shoot three free throws with 15-16 seconds left?

Is there a point to answering a rhetorical question? If so, what would the point be?

Lots of people have commented on the favorable whistles Ky has received in the tourney. Don't see how anyone can be a fan of that program. Everything that's wrong with the game. In my opinion, of course.

maynard g krebs
04-06-2014, 06:27 PM
I agree it is hard to see Smith's basketball aspirations as altruistic. But, for things off the court, the guy has as big a heart as exists. I remember seeing something about him always encouraging his players to "see reality" and, in particular, let his players skip practice one time to support a student sit in trying to get the cafeteria staff benefits or something akin to that. Allowing them out of practice was told as just "one" story out of many where he wanted his players to look at the world differently.

I think it hit me hard b/c from afar, I really wanted to detest him and then I watched that and just never could again. I suspect he would not be a fan of the direction much of BB is taking these days.

Twenty- some years ago, when I was in the import business, I used to hang out with a group of ex-pats in a Guatemala resort town. One of them was a walk on guard on the Jordan/Worthy/Perkins team. I once asked him what he thought of Smith, and he said, (paraphrasing) "if Dean Smith ran for president, I'd vote for him. He only thought of what was best for his players. When Worthy was a junior, he said, 'James, you should enter the draft now. You're ready. You'll be the number one pick.' When Perkins was a junior, he told him, 'Sam, you don't have a jumper. Stay next year, we'll feature you in the offense and get you ready to be a pro. ' " Perkins would up being the 4th player drafted.

jazzdelmar
04-06-2014, 06:45 PM
Twenty- some years ago, when I was in the import business, I used to hang out with a group of ex-pats in a Guatemala resort town. One of them was a walk on guard on the Jordan/Worthy/Perkins team. I once asked him what he thought of Smith, and he said, (paraphrasing) "if Dean Smith ran for president, I'd vote for him. He only thought of what was best for his players. When Worthy was a junior, he said, 'James, you should enter the draft now. You're ready. You'll be the number one pick.' When Perkins was a junior, he told him, 'Sam, you don't have a jumper. Stay next year, we'll feature you in the offense and get you ready to be a pro. ' " Perkins would up being the 4th player drafted.


Not a surprise. But Smiths greatest contributions were off the court in the area of civil rights. An extraordinary man.

75Zag
04-06-2014, 06:51 PM
Is there a point to answering a rhetorical question? If so, what would the point be?

Best question ever asked here. But, speaking rhetorically, the answer would end this blog, wouldn't it, and what would the point of that be?

Go Bulldogs - Next Year!