PDA

View Full Version : Gonzaga vs Arizon...post game thoughts and feelings



Reborn
03-24-2014, 10:17 AM
I didn't want to post last night after the game. I've learned to wait a day at least to post. Thank you to those of you who helped me understand that it's important to "give peace a changce." I feel better today.

The game last night was hard to watch. We got to see what the number one defensive team in the country looks like. But what shocked me was how poorly our guards played as they turned it over 21 times. I've watched Arizona play 4 or 5 times this year, and I have never seen opposing team's guards play as poorly as GU's did last night. The 21 turnover, and more importantly, the 31 points scored off those turn overs, usually dunks, it what caused this defeat for the Zags. And also, I felt that for some odd reason certain players did not seem to have any confidence at all. I guess that that surprised me the most.

I didn't think that their guards would dominate ours the way they did. I was quite surprised that Gary Bell didn't score, but most shocking is that we would turn the ball over the way we did. Even more surprised that the Zags would come out of halftime and turn the ball over like four straight times and give them layups. I was very encouraged that the Zags had gotten the score within 13 points at halftime. I appreciated the comeback, which was led mostly by our bench. This has happened in our other losses this year. The bench comes in and saves the first half, and then Few comes out of the half and goes with the starters who caused the problems in the first half. I wish Few had begun the second half with the group (guys off the bench) who got the score within 13. Stockton, Dower and Bell were the biggest problems and I wish Few had begun the second half with them on the bench. I felt that if Gonzaga came out of halftime with the intensity and confidence that they played with the last five minutes of the first half, that they could possibly pull out a victory. But those first five minutes of the second half destroyed any chance of a victory.

That is how coaching, and coaching decision do affect a game. There is no way that anyone could say that Few coached a good game. He didn't.

I really do not remember the Zags playing as poorly as a team as they did last night. Never.

But as been said, one poorly played game does not ruin a whole season of so many, many great memories. I loved this year's team and appreciate so much what they have accomplished. It's been a very strange year with so many injuries. But for the most part the Zags overcame the challenges of this season. Great job by our Zags...one and all. I look forward to next year now. And I wish all seniors the best as they go forward in life.

Go Zags!!!

FuManShoes
03-24-2014, 10:32 AM
It was a really hard game to watch, and honestly I stopped watching after the spate of turnovers to start the second half. If that makes me a lousy fan, so be it. I couldn't stand to see us get owned like that, with so feeble an attempt at a comeback. Maybe the players felt the same and checked out at that point. I do think Arizona was superior at nearly every position but that's no excuse to be so careless with the ball - in fact it's all the more reason to play a possession game and value the rock like you never have before. We were so, so careless and the Cats just feasted off it at every opportunity. I know Bell and Dower had tough defenders on them but to go a combined 3-17? And Stocks with 6 turnovers, and another 10 for our other guards? You just can't do that, especially at G(uard) U!

Zagceo
03-24-2014, 10:45 AM
I feel for our players because they're left with a real bad taste that you don't just eliminate with a victory next week.

I feel for all our new recruits that sat around the tube with their Gonzaga gear on with their friends and families.

This is life. I will continue to hope for the best and accept the rest! When we make it to the Final Four it will taste even better because of the tough road we had to hoe!

We are GU!

seacatfan
03-24-2014, 10:49 AM
I think you watched the wrong 4 or 5 Arizona games. They did struggle at times, but last night was not an anomaly, I've seen them play like that a handful of times. They did EXACTLY the same thing to Colorado (twice), Cal, Stanford and Utah in the last month or less. Two Tourney teams and two NIT teams. I really got the feeling heading into this game that the entire board had no idea what they were about to face in this Arizona team. Many are in denial today and some think a rematch would yield a close game or a Zags win. I just don't see it. Maybe it was a perfect storm and GU wouldn't play that poorly again, but Arizona's defense is just exponentially better than anyone the Zags have played against all year. Not to mention the Zags D didn't do much to slow down Arizona. I saw several posts about Arizona played their best game all year last night. That's inaccurate. I think they were near their ceiling but they've attained that level a number of times during the season. Their leading scorer didn't really go off and their center had a bad game.

Zagceo
03-24-2014, 10:54 AM
I think you watched the wrong 4 or 5 Arizona games. They did struggle at times, but last night was not an anomaly, I've seen them play like that a handful of times. They did EXACTLY the same thing to Colorado (twice), Cal, Stanford and Utah in the last month or less. Two Tourney teams and two NIT teams. I really got the feeling heading into this game that the entire board had no idea what they were about to face in this Arizona team. Many are in denial today and some think a rematch would yield a close game or a Zags win. I just don't see it. Maybe it was a perfect storm and GU wouldn't play that poorly again, but Arizona's defense is just exponentially better than anyone the Zags have played against all year. Not to mention the Zags D didn't do much to slow down Arizona. I saw several posts about Arizona played their best game all year last night. That's inaccurate. I think they were near their ceiling but they've attained that level a number of times during the season. Their leading scorer didn't really go off and their center had a bad game.

Seacatfan I get it. You are a fan of AZ also. You have made your point but now you're bordering on singing I told you so at our wake. Please let us vent without your constant mantra of my one favorite team is better than my other favorite team.

Thank you

cjm720
03-24-2014, 11:03 AM
When Arizona reaches the final 4 then wins it all, you'll feel better. We got taken to the woodshed by a better team. Seeding/ranking reflected that...no shame in a loss to end the season, as it happens to over 300 teams each year.

seacatfan
03-24-2014, 11:04 AM
Seacatfan I get it. You are a fan of AZ also. You have made your point but now you're bordering on singing I told you so at our wake. Please let us vent without your constant mantra of my one favorite team is better than my other favorite team.

Thank you

Okay, but usually the Zags fans end the year with the mantra of "well the team that beat us played the best they ever have." I didn't watch all the teams that have knocked GU out of the Tourney enough to know if that's true or not. Well this time I do know, so I'm calling BS on it. I think it shows a lack of respect to the opponent.

Zagceo
03-24-2014, 11:08 AM
Okay, but usually the Zags fans end the year with the mantra of "well the team that beat us played the best they ever have." I didn't watch all the teams that have knocked GU out of the Tourney enough to know if that's true or not. Well this time I do know, so I'm calling BS on it. I think it shows a lack of respect to the opponent.

Does it make you feel better to rub our nose in it?

Can't we feel what we want when we just took a really hard beat down however we want even if it's not the perceived truth.

Its called coping skills.

seacatfan
03-24-2014, 11:19 AM
Does it make you feel better to rub our nose in it?

Can't we feel what we want when we just took a really hard beat down however we want even if it's not the perceived truth.

Its called coping skills.

Okay, I'll try to not make any further comments. You are entitled to have whatever feelings you are having. I'm usually bitterly disappointed at the end of Zags season each year.

gonzagafan62
03-24-2014, 11:59 AM
I agree. Again GU gets hit with a buzzsaw and we saw Arizona perform unstoppable. Team played on all cylinders last night, and I have watched Arizona a few times, and this is by far the best I have seen them in a couple months. Sucks to go out this way, but we will get them next year and for the next couple years hopefully.

Go Bulldogs!

Bkzag
03-24-2014, 12:11 PM
Okay, I'll try to not make any further comments. You are entitled to have whatever feelings you are having. I'm usually bitterly disappointed at the end of Zags season each year.

I am bitterly disappointed once again...but realize we played possibly the best college basketball team of the 2013-14 season.

I thought that if GU played really, really well then we would have a chance. We would have to rebound, not turn over the ball, play great transition defense and make our shots to keep it close to maybe the last two-three minutes BUT we did none of those things and we were soundly beaten.

Out last SS team in 2009 (might well be our best team) lost to UNC by +20 points and that team went on to win the NC.

This AZ team is so much more talented than GU and we had to play a near perfect game to have any chance of winning.

GU had a very good season, winning the WCC League and Conference Tournament AND we beat a very athletic OKSU team, THAT NO ONE gave us a chance of beating!!!

We will loose two SUPER Zags in David and Sam and I feel confident that they will build on this minor set back and become extremely successful in all their endeavors.

Reborn, I agree with much you wrote but take issue regarding Coach Few's performance. As a former coach, I always felt badly for the team when it lost and blamed myself and not the players. He most probably feels the same BUT I do not blame him for this loss. There was nothing he could of done to prevent it. You, me or any other human, outside of Merlin who could of made AZ's rim's smaller, could of changed the outcome of this game.

After all, Coach Few didn't miss a basket nor did he make a bad pass. All he can do is approve the game plan and shout directions/suggestions which he did BUT as we all know, GU just didn't/couldn't execute against this superb AZ team.

Let's just hope next year's GU squad finds a way to improve over this year's team and build it's own legacy.

Thanks Dave and Sam for the wonderful memories you gave us!

GO ZAGS

Reborn
03-24-2014, 01:09 PM
Reborn, I agree with much you wrote but take issue regarding Coach Few's performance. As a former coach, I always felt badly for the team when it lost and blamed myself and not the players. He most probably feels the same BUT I do not blame him for this loss. There was nothing he could of done to prevent it. You, me or any other human, outside of Merlin who could of made AZ's rim's smaller, could of changed the outcome of this game.

After all, Coach Few didn't miss a basket nor did he make a bad pass. All he can do is approve the game plan and shout directions/suggestions which he did BUT as we all know, GU just didn't/couldn't execute against this superb AZ team.

Let's just hope next year's GU squad finds a way to improve over this year's team and build it's own legacy.

Thanks Dave and Sam for the wonderful memories you gave us!

GO ZAGS

Its okay to disagree. In fact it's good. I think there is a lot more to coaching then what you just described. I too was a coach. My point, and something he could have done, was to start the second half with the guys who finished the first half. I was impressed with what that group did.

gonzagafan62
03-24-2014, 01:42 PM
Reborn,

Can you do an offseason predictions and thoughts topic? I would hate for your great (I call it artwork) of posts to end on a loss.

zagzilla
03-24-2014, 01:53 PM
At least nobody is blaming the refs.

Better team won. NBA caliber talent beats NCAA level talent. We needed them to have a slightly off night and instead they played as well as I have seen a team play this year. If they sustain it, I don't see another team they should lose to.

As much as we were talking about payback for 2003, I wonder if some of these players were thinking about payback for the BIS beatdown we put on them in 2012?

ZZ

gonzagafan62
03-24-2014, 01:57 PM
At least nobody is blaming the refs.

Better team won. NBA caliber talent beats NCAA level talent. We needed them to have a slightly off night and instead they played as well as I have seen a team play this year. If they sustain it, I don't see another team they should lose to.

As much as we were talking about payback for 2003, I wonder if some of these players were thinking about payback for the BIS beatdown we put on them in 2012?

ZZ

Well, see that's where they beat us in Phoenix. So that cancels out, and why nobody is mentioning those games...... :)

Virginia Zags Fan
03-24-2014, 03:03 PM
Definitely a tough loss. Living in AZ and watching UA, I have to agree with SEACAT to a degree. AZ is a darn good team. Our Zags would have to play their best ball to win. The team had an off night. Some of it was AZ superior athletes hounding, and I mean hounding, Gary and Sam. Some of it was a lack of attention and a few times lack of hustle. That bothered me most. I am sure they talked about turnovers and a fresh start in the locker room at half. For whatever reason, they just had a mental block and had an off night. It happened to the team several times this year. I am not sure why Few stuck with David and Sam as long as he did. Coach Few hasn't called me yet to give me his thinking, but my guess is twofold: Those are the guys that got us here and as Seniors and true competitors, he was giving them a chance to fight their way out of it. He showed loyalty to his guys. Maybe that was not the best decision for winning this year, but might show the guys who will be seniors next year that he has your back. Who knows.

No coach is perfect and I am sure Few has about 20 things he wishes he had done differently in both Friday's win and Sunday's loss. Few and the coaching staff are great guys and I feel bad for them as well. When you come out of half and talk about not turning the ball over and then the guys do on successive possessions, that has to absolutely rip out your heart. As frustrated as I was, can you imagine being the coach wondering who took over his team?

Reborn is so right that one game does not make a season. I am so pleased they team won a game in the tournament. Without Sam, David, Drew, and Bryan B., they most likely would not have won quite a few games and might not have made the dance at all. Would I have liked the Zags to pull out the big win or at least go out giving it their best shot? You bet. But that does not mean I do not like the guys any less and it was a fun season. I am thankful for all of our players and what great guys they are.

After last year, I decided to enjoy the ride more. Savor every win as the season goes on. While I would love a FF here at GU, it will take both fantastic athletes and some luck (matchups, healthy team, peaking at right moment, etc). Don't know when it will happen, but when it does, I am going to really celebrate. Heck, I will really celebrate when we win our next Conference Championship and take it to the other guys in Vegas!

Enjoy the ride my fellow Zag fans. Enjoy the ride.

GeorgiaZagFan
03-24-2014, 05:02 PM
My point, and something he could have done, was to start the second half with the guys who finished the first half. I was impressed with what that group did.

Am I missing something? The group that finished the first half on a 12-4 run WAS the same group that started the 2nd half (minus Dranginis for Bell)

thespywhozaggedme
03-24-2014, 05:06 PM
I didn't read a single thing that you wrote, but I already love your post for the simple fact that you didn't title it "Reborn's post game thoughts". +1
I didn't want to post last night after the game. I've learned to wait a day at least to post. Thank you to those of you who helped me understand that it's important to "give peace a changce." I feel better today.

The game last night was hard to watch. We got to see what the number one defensive team in the country looks like. But what shocked me was how poorly our guards played as they turned it over 21 times. I've watched Arizona play 4 or 5 times this year, and I have never seen opposing team's guards play as poorly as GU's did last night. The 21 turnover, and more importantly, the 31 points scored off those turn overs, usually dunks, it what caused this defeat for the Zags. And also, I felt that for some odd reason certain players did not seem to have any confidence at all. I guess that that surprised me the most.

I didn't think that their guards would dominate ours the way they did. I was quite surprised that Gary Bell didn't score, but most shocking is that we would turn the ball over the way we did. Even more surprised that the Zags would come out of halftime and turn the ball over like four straight times and give them layups. I was very encouraged that the Zags had gotten the score within 13 points at halftime. I appreciated the comeback, which was led mostly by our bench. This has happened in our other losses this year. The bench comes in and saves the first half, and then Few comes out of the half and goes with the starters who caused the problems in the first half. I wish Few had begun the second half with the group (guys off the bench) who got the score within 13. Stockton, Dower and Bell were the biggest problems and I wish Few had begun the second half with them on the bench. I felt that if Gonzaga came out of halftime with the intensity and confidence that they played with the last five minutes of the first half, that they could possibly pull out a victory. But those first five minutes of the second half destroyed any chance of a victory.

That is how coaching, and coaching decision do affect a game. There is no way that anyone could say that Few coached a good game. He didn't.

I really do not remember the Zags playing as poorly as a team as they did last night. Never.

But as been said, one poorly played game does not ruin a whole season of so many, many great memories. I loved this year's team and appreciate so much what they have accomplished. It's been a very strange year with so many injuries. But for the most part the Zags overcame the challenges of this season. Great job by our Zags...one and all. I look forward to next year now. And I wish all seniors the best as they go forward in life.

Go Zags!!!

Pleasant Peninsula
03-24-2014, 05:17 PM
Arizona is a great team, with an absolutely tremendous defense ... but the Zags, especially the backcourt absolutely #### the bed last night. I hope Bell and Pangos spend all summer motivated to get that taste out of the mouths. For Stockton -- well, he gave us so much more than we ever expected that it's hard to fault him for his annual big game meltdown.

GeorgiaZagFan
03-24-2014, 05:46 PM
At least nobody is blaming the refs.

Better team won. NBA caliber talent beats NCAA level talent. We needed them to have a slightly off night and instead they played as well as I have seen a team play this year. If they sustain it, I don't see another team they should lose to.

ZZ

Agreed ....as much as I pull for Gonzaga ...I had concerns about this season. After losing Olynyk, Harris, and Hart I really thought this team would take a bigger step backwards than it did. But they surprised me with another good year and first round tournament win.

This year's AZ team is at a completely different level than this year's Zags. The Zags and AZ both played WSU Cougars and NMSU. While the Zags struggled with New Mexico State at home (even at the half, Zags pull away for an 80-68 win) Arizona DOMINATED NMSU 74-48. WSU was within 9 points of the Zags with 15 minutes to go, Zags keep it together and win going away 90-74 ...AZ beat WSU by 60-25!!!!! I have enjoyed David Stockton's time at Gonzaga, but for an Elite-8 or Final-4 caliber team, DS would at best be a 10-12 minute spark off the bench...not a starter.

As much as I worried about this year's team before the season began, I believe next year's Zags have a chance to be really good.
IF PK continues the improvement (one play in last night's game really got me excited for next year...he got the ball on the elbow...and DROVE the ball to the basket and laid it in. If he adds that to his arsenal, watch out. The next step is for him to hit an elbow jumper when the defense sluffs off)
I believe Ryan Edwards this year looked the way PK did last year...IF Edwards takes that same step forward that PK took...watch out.
If Kyle Wiltjier has undergone the KO transformation...watch out.
Pangos, Bell, and Dranginis one more year of experience. A Nunez and Coleman should both be better next year.

As much as I enjoyed Sam, David, and Drew ..they were all very limited when it comes to competing at the higher levels of NCAA basketball. Sam is the ONLY one of the three that even has a slight chance of an NBA career. SD will need to get stronger and bigger (bulkier) and less left-handed to even have a chance.

gonwick
03-24-2014, 07:16 PM
Gu was not going to win that game. I knew it and prepared for it, but not for the debacle we all witnessed. That said, it baffles me that few could watch any film on az and think that his 3 guard lineup would have any success. AZ is far too athletic. A few quick turnovers and gu was behind the rest of the way. Didn't help that Sam had his worst day I can remember. I seem to write this same post every year, because the same thing happens every year. I think it is telling that few called himself more of a fisherman than a coach. This may have been said in jest, but in any profession, you have to live for your job to be great at it. You have to want to spend time learning new techniques, reading up, and striving to get better. Someone once told me that is the difference between a good doctor and a great one. I think few enjoys it. I think he's a good coach. I don't think he will ever be a great coach. That's fine. But I sure would love it if he could, in the time he spends thinking about his coaching between fishing holes, make some changes. He needs to remember that winning the wcc and winning in the tournament may and often do require vastly different skill sets. I would like to see him adjust his lineup for match ups, not just throw the same five guys out every game and after every half, regardless of how the game goes. I would like him to give bench players more time in the wcc so they can be ready if needed in the tournament. I get frustrated with his tendency to stick with security blankets that won't cut it against good or great teams, but get by mediocre teams. Maybe Coleman and Nunez are busts. Maybe with more playing time and longer leashes they could have helped against an extremely athletic team. The majority of posters suggested the season would end like this and it did. Few didn't go out and embarrass himself on the court last night, the majority of the players did. But few could take steps to maximize the team's chances for success.

krozman
03-24-2014, 07:25 PM
IMO it's Mark Few's fault for being unable to simulate that defense in practice. I mean they have Adam Morrison now as a coach and his defense was......OHHHH WAIT I GET IT NOW!!!!

seacatfan
03-24-2014, 07:38 PM
Few seems to have a good game plan for the first Tourney game each year, but not so much the second. I know it's not easy to prepare for a team with less than 48 hours notice, but everybody in the Tourney is facing the same thing. What surprised me is that the Zags seemed to be happy to get in an up tempo game with Arizona. That was a huge mistake.

gonzagafan62
03-25-2014, 06:08 AM
Few seems to have a good game plan for the first Tourney game each year, but not so much the second. I know it's not easy to prepare for a team with less than 48 hours notice, but everybody in the Tourney is facing the same thing. What surprised me is that the Zags seemed to be happy to get in an up tempo game with Arizona. That was a huge mistake.

Maybe it was. OH well. Shot ourselves in the foot too much. Wish we coulda seen Zags take care of the ball.

Reborn
03-25-2014, 08:11 AM
One nice statistic vs Arizona is that the Zags out-rebounded them by 11. All the other statistics are about the same except for field goal %. Arizona's was 49 and Gonzaga's was 40, but when you look at Arizona's shooting percentage you have to see how many baskets were layups they made after steals. Arizona also had many more points in the paint then Gonzaga did, but that too was a result of points off turnovers (31).

The difference to me was not THE SIZE OF THEIR BODIES, put rather the poor decisions with their passing. Turnovers were a problem in a number of games this year. The point differential was not as much how good Arizona is but how poorly Gonzaga played, especially our passing. I have never seen a Gonzaga team pass so poorly. For me the game was the ugliest Gonzaga game I have ever seen. And it was mostly because of our passing, but also it was because of how poorly a few of our players played. Arizona should not have beaten the Zags by 23 points. Arizona is good, but Gonzaga is not THAT BAD. What would the game have been like if you take away Arizona's 31 points off turnovers?

We all knew that Arizona was a very good team. There's no doubt about that, and I think most knew that the Zags would have to play their A game to compete with Arizona. And they did not. Arizona played their A game and Gonzaga did not even play their B game. The other factor in the disparity in points was that Dower got dominated by Gordon and Bell got dominated by Johnson. Yes. I know that both of those Arizona players are All-Americans and will play in the NBA, but are they THAT much better then Dower and Bell? No. Sam missed 4 layups that were not a result of Arizona's defense, and if he had made them they would have been a result of very good passing. And he only shot one free-throw. And I just will never understand Bell getting 0 points, and he didn't shoot a free-throw, and 3 turnovers.

I disagree with the GU fans who post here who believe that this GU team was not really all that good, and that they expected Arizona to drill us. I don't agree that Arizona should have beaten the Zags by 23 points and made us look like a JV high school team. There were a few times this year Gonzaga did play poorly and got beat. Unfortunately, Sunday night's game was one of those, and Arizona is a top 4 or 5 team in the country.

As I said before, this loss does not take away all the good things GU did this year, including the GREAT win against Oklahoma State. There were many bright shining moments including winning both our conference and conference tournament. And what I like best about this team, and what I will remember is how they overcame so much adversity this year because of the injuries. I will never those two or three weeks we played without our starters and how great they played. That was a team that fought from the very beginning of the game to the very end. I did NOT see that kind of energy nor fight in the team that played Arizona Sunday nite. And I am certainly looking forward to next year.

Go Zags!!!

Zags11
03-25-2014, 08:15 AM
Reborn,

I agree. Arizona isnt that much better ans again it was a snowball effect. It was a sloppy game in the turnover department and thst cost us the game. Dribbling off the foot, just losing the ball, lob passes cross court, etc made the snowball effect. Id love for a rematch right now as I believe itd be a battle but in march it is 1 and done.

cjm720
03-25-2014, 08:41 AM
Reborn,

I agree. Arizona isnt that much better ans again it was a snowball effect. It was a sloppy game in the turnover department and thst cost us the game. Dribbling off the foot, just losing the ball, lob passes cross court, etc made the snowball effect. Id love for a rematch right now as I believe itd be a battle but in march it is 1 and done.

Arizona is a lot better than us...not sure how that can be in dispute. They have two first rounders and likely other NBA players on their roster. We might have one.

I love the Zags and a pretty big homer, but let's give credit where credit is due...just my opinion.

Zagceo
03-25-2014, 08:50 AM
Reborn I agree with your assessment. I re-watched the game last night on DVR. I attended the game so I was interested in the watching it from the TV angles and replays. It was ball handling and passing mistakes which led to fast breaks without allowing our defense to set-up.

Our baseline defense was also very poor which led to easy baskets in the paint.

Yes, AZ is good but most of our turnovers were self inflicted. I mean twice we had players just fall down which led to break away points. We were lazy with entry passes to our bigs.

If you watch football we see QB's throw into tight coverage all the time and some games your on and some games your off just a little which costs you games. Imo our players thought we had to thread the needle to make the tough passes instead of taking or working harder to gain better position on the entry passes to our bigs.

Arizona is good but we're not that bad. We had a very bad game on a very big stage. In person the atmosphere was like watching a bad scrimmage.

If you think I'm wrong please re-watch the game before ranting that it was the size and speed of AZ that caused all of the turnovers! AZ size and speed allowed them to finish at the rim after getting the turnovers but most of the turnovers were sloppy mistakes.

cjm720
03-25-2014, 09:05 AM
Nearly everything we did was poor. Whether it was us, them, or a combination of both it doesn't matter really. I will say the number 1 defensive team in the nation proved it.

Unbiased
03-25-2014, 09:11 AM
The difference to me was not THE SIZE OF THEIR BODIES, put rather the poor decisions with their passing. Turnovers were a problem in a number of games this year. The point differential was not as much how good Arizona is but how poorly Gonzaga played, especially our passing. I have never seen a Gonzaga team pass so poorly. For me the game was the ugliest Gonzaga game I have ever seen. And it was mostly because of our passing, but also it was because of how poorly a few of our players played. Arizona should not have beaten the Zags by 23 points. Arizona is good, but Gonzaga is not THAT BAD. What would the game have been like if you take away Arizona's 31 points off turnovers?

Go Zags!!!

Reborn I completely agree with your analysis.

The inability of the Zags to make adjustments on the fly is on the coaches. Arizona is a solid but the Zags turnovers seemed to be the result of awe - like a junior high team sparring with a good high school squad. It also drove me nuts when Arizona kept getting the dunks when Dower went over to trap on the weak side and was slow on sliding back. There should have been some adjustments after the second time but it never occurred.
,

Zagceo
03-25-2014, 10:21 AM
I'm surprised AZ only had 11 more field goal attempts on 21 turnover chances. What am I missing? 5 more FT attempts I guess?
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac342/ceo_500/Arizona_stats_zps7bb8ce6c.png

cjm720
03-25-2014, 10:33 AM
Assists and blocks stand out too. Also AZ only had 6 TOs.

Zagceo
03-25-2014, 10:38 AM
Assists and blocks stand out too. Also AZ only had 6 TOs.

Yes I guess thats it on a net +15 in TO's by zags AZ got 11 more field goal attempts.

cjm720
03-25-2014, 10:46 AM
Yes I guess thats it on a net +15 in TO's by zags AZ got 11 more field goal attempts.

Had we lost the rebounding war it would have been much worse....we ran into a buzz saw...

seacatfan
03-25-2014, 10:49 AM
I got scolded yesterday, so I will try to tread carefully. Let me just ask, if Arizona didn't have so many transition baskets, how many times do you think the Zags would've stopped Arizona from scoring in half court sets? Seems like they got plenty of layups and dunks that way as well.

Zagceo
03-25-2014, 11:04 AM
I got scolded yesterday, so I will try to tread carefully. Let me just ask, if Arizona didn't have so many transition baskets, how many times do you think the Zags would've stopped Arizona from scoring in half court sets? Seems like they got plenty of layups and dunks that way as well.

Thats a fair critique but if you go back and watch the game you'll be surprised. We must have stopped them enough to get 28 rebounds on the defensive boards correct?

seacatfan
03-25-2014, 11:10 AM
Thats a fair critique but if you go back and watch the game you'll be surprised. We must have stopped them enough to get 28 rebounds on the defensive boards correct?

Fair enough. I don't think it's likely I'm going to rewatch the game. Maybe I would find it surprising if I did.

TexasZagFan
03-25-2014, 11:16 AM
I got scolded yesterday, so I will try to tread carefully. Let me just ask, if Arizona didn't have so many transition baskets, how many times do you think the Zags would've stopped Arizona from scoring in half court sets? Seems like they got plenty of layups and dunks that way as well.

Isn't it about time for you to be heading to the San Diego State board? Or isn't there enough activity for you there?

Your team won...congratulations...auf weidersehen.

seacatfan
03-25-2014, 11:56 AM
I root for Arizona and Gonzaga. I picked this handle because it's the one I've been using on scout networks for years and it was just easier to keep using the same name rather than trying to remember another one. I've been lurking here for years but started posting several weeks before the brackets came out. I had no idea UA and GU would be playing each other. It wasn't part of a master plan I had. I am a Gonzaga fan, I'm going to keep posting here.

Did you watch the Super Bowl? Broncos fans probably said "They can't be that much better than us, if we played them again we could take them." Seahawks fans would disagree. If a person was a Hawks and Broncos fans, at least one of their teams won. Two (or more) people can see the exact same thing and have a different opinion of what they saw.

Zagceo
03-25-2014, 12:20 PM
Fair enough. I don't think it's likely I'm going to rewatch the game. Maybe I would find it surprising if I did.

My wife couldn't believe I would sit and watch "that game" again but I wanted to break it down a little to see for myself what and where the game went so wrong for the Zags.

I know people say it's the turnovers but why 21 thats crazy. The one stat that Mark Few avoids like the plague. If you watch the game and notice the lazy, slow, bad passes into the post its feels like the Zags were pressing so much to make quick entry passes instead of being patient and letting the offense come to them with screen action or better post position to allow the pass. I don't understand why we couldn't adjust because it was impatience imo that led to the majority of the TO's. I do believe AZ was playing SD very tight on the offensive side but again screen action and better post position would have given players better passing lanes imo. Some TO's were just grade school plays with players falling down or passing it right into a defender but most happened trying to make interior passes that just shouldn't have been attempted in the first place.

The fast break dunkathon and Nick Johnson block party definitely gave us the impression AZ just blew us off the court but imo it was a self inflicted wound which allowed them to play fast and free alla what the Lakers used to call "Showtime". It makes for exciting blocks and dunks but we did make enough stops on AZ in half court sets enough to get 28 offensive rebounds.

I will say after taking that beating and walking out of the stadium I didn't hear one AZ fan being loud or disrespectful within my view. It was actually quite somber like they just witness an assault and didn't want to cheer because it just felt wrong.

It was a bad day to stop sniffing glue. :)

gonzagafan62
03-25-2014, 12:28 PM
My wife couldn't believe I would sit and watch "that game" again but I wanted to break it down a little to see for myself what and where the game went so wrong for the Zags.

I know people say it's the turnovers but why 21 thats crazy. If you watch the game and notice the lazy, slow, bad passes into the post its feels like the Zags were pressing so much to make quick entry passes instead of being patient and letting the offense come to them with screen action or better post position to allow the pass. I don't understand why we couldn't adjust because it was impatience imo that led to the majority of the TO's. I do believe AZ was playing SD very tight on the offensive side but again screen action and better post position would have given players better passing lanes imo. Some TO's were just grade school plays with players falling down or passing it right into a defender but most happened trying to make interior passes that just shouldn't have been attempted in the first place.

The fast break dunkathon and Nick Johnson block party definitely gave us the impression AZ just blew us off the court but imo it was a self inflicted wound which allowed them to play fast and free alla what the Lakers used to call "Showtime". It makes for exciting blocks and dunks but we did make enough stops on AZ in half court sets enough to get 28 offensive rebounds.

I will say after taking that beating and walking out of the stadium I didn't hear one AZ fan being loud or disrespectful within my view. It was actually quite somber like they just witness an assault and didn't want to cheer because it just felt wrong.

It was a bad day to stop sniffing glue. :)

Hahahaha. +1000000 Your post is very accurate. My wife actually said the same thing when I rewatched the game. Just terrible turnovers that looked like it was the 4th grade team I helped coach over the winter. Just embarrassing. However, Arizona played really great defense, and I wasn't really heartbroken (persay) that we lost, more heartbroken that this was the way Stocks, Barham, Dower, and Bhaskhar had to go out. :(. It was however, more enjoyable to rewatch this game over the okie state game. At least there wasn't 61 fouls in the game.

skan72
03-25-2014, 12:34 PM
Is the game archived anywhere online? I know phillyzag used to post games in parts on Youtube…

Zagceo
03-25-2014, 12:38 PM
Is the game archived anywhere online? I know phillyzag used to post games in parts on Youtube…

Go here (http://www.ncaa.com/march-madness-live/game/309) a hit watch full game replay in the top center of page.

seacatfan
03-25-2014, 01:23 PM
It was a bad day to stop sniffing glue. :)

Love that movie. Now I'm picturing Lloyd Bridges floating around upside down with his hair going every which way.

Zags11
03-25-2014, 02:24 PM
I root for Arizona and Gonzaga. I picked this handle because it's the one I've been using on scout networks for years and it was just easier to keep using the same name rather than trying to remember another one. I've been lurking here for years but started posting several weeks before the brackets came out. I had no idea UA and GU would be playing each other. It wasn't part of a master plan I had. I am a Gonzaga fan, I'm going to keep posting here.

Did you watch the Super Bowl? Broncos fans probably said "They can't be that much better than us, if we played them again we could take them." Seahawks fans would disagree. If a person was a Hawks and Broncos fans, at least one of their teams won. Two (or more) people can see the exact same thing and have a different opinion of what they saw.

Huge hawk fan here but not 35 point better then denver. Thats my point is some games snowball.

zag67
03-26-2014, 07:09 AM
I also agree on the snowball affect. We also let too many passes get by as they cut to the basket.

Also a piece of trivia about Arizona. On their roster they have seven 5 star and 2 three star players. They also had 3 or 4 four and five star players that are not there. That is a pretty powerful group.

Gozags