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ZagsGoZags
03-03-2014, 08:55 AM
Gonzaga U is 29 on Mar 3 by Assoc Press Rankings
31 by Coaches poll
25 on CBS RPI ranking

gonzagafan62
03-03-2014, 08:58 AM
AP Rankings (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings/_/year/2014/poll/1)

LongIslandZagFan
03-03-2014, 09:09 AM
Is it me or is Kentucky getting way too much of a pass? Two losses (Arkansas and South Carolina) for the week and still in the top 25? I'd have given VCU a nod over them.

Reborn
03-03-2014, 09:18 AM
And how about Ohio St. You will never convince me that Ohio St is better than Gonzaga. Obviously Gonzag's vicory over St Mary's (a 28 pt blowout) meant very little to the polls or Mr. Lunardi. The WCC is basically seen as a lousy conference. When will Gonzaga get out of the WCC?

75Zag
03-03-2014, 09:30 AM
This list of teams makes me thankful that the NCAA tournament only requires GU to win 1 game to move on to the next round. I would not want to play any of the top 25 (or 26) in a best of three situation but good things can happen for a team like GU in a one game contest.

Four years in a row of being ejected in the round of 32 has left me hungry for GU to have a decent year in the Tournament. It's my turn to stand around the office coffee machine on the 2nd weekend of the Tournament and talk NCAA ball with all my BCS co-workers.

Time to move it on up (to paraphrase George Jefferson).

Go Bulldogs!

coolhandzag
03-03-2014, 09:30 AM
And how about Ohio St. You will never convince me that Ohio St is better than Gonzaga. Obviously Gonzag's vicory over St Mary's (a 28 pt blowout) meant very little to the polls or Mr. Lunardi. The WCC is basically seen as a lousy conference. When will Gonzaga get out of the WCC?

The conference is what it is.

The ballclub is showing signs of life if not downright intestinal fortitude! The WCC tournament is next.

The postseason is here, and anything can happen.

Hit the glass, play some D, execute the offense.....win some games!

Someone about asked why Kentucky gets a pass.......graft, collusion and corruption, of course.

As for Lunardi? Anyone out of Bristol has gotta have a sthick. I love it when someone says "Joey Brackets" as though its a real job description.

DixieZag
03-03-2014, 09:34 AM
Is it me or is Kentucky getting way too much of a pass? Two losses (Arkansas and South Carolina) for the week and still in the top 25? I'd have given VCU a nod over them.

No - it is not just you. Our loss to BYU is nowhere near as bad as the loss to South Carolina. Our gutting of SMC - not just a win, a statement - is a better win than some of those mid level BCS wins. Kentucky has that name on the uniform and that coach who's insufferable. I suspect we're right about where we naturally fall. If we win our tourney we'll be 23-25 - also probably about right.

gonzagafan62
03-03-2014, 09:45 AM
Or how bout Iowa. You know, that team that doesn't play defense?

Reborn
03-03-2014, 09:57 AM
Ok I feel better since I've been able to see the AP poll finally. At least UMASS, Ohio St and Pitt., Colorado, Arizona St, and Xavier are raed lower than Gonzaga. Now! All I need to see to finally feel better is for Joey Lunardi to wake up, and take a real look at what is happening in NCAA basketball. Gonzaga's victory over St Mary's by 28 points was significant, imo. Gonzaga has no losses at home, and only 4 other teams in the top 25 are undefeated: Florida, Wichita St, Duke, and Creighton. I's say that that counts for something. Gonzaaga has taken care of business. No losses at home, 4 of the six losses on the road were to top 50 teams in the RPI rankings. Let's see how many teams in the top 25 have 2 or more bad losses on the road.

VaBeachZAG
03-03-2014, 10:43 AM
Ok I feel better since I've been able to see the AP poll finally. At least UMASS, Ohio St and Pitt., Colorado, Arizona St, and Xavier are raed lower than Gonzaga. Now! All I need to see to finally feel better is for Joey Lunardi to wake up, and take a real look at what is happening in NCAA basketball. Gonzaga's victory over St Mary's by 28 points was significant, imo. Gonzaga has no losses at home, and only 4 other teams in the top 25 are undefeated: Florida, Wichita St, Duke, and Creighton. I's say that that counts for something. Gonzaaga has taken care of business. No losses at home, 4 of the six losses on the road were to top 50 teams in the RPI rankings. Let's see how many teams in the top 25 have 2 or more bad losses on the road.

It's a waste of time and keystrokes to get worked up over how Lunardi and the rest of the basketball world perceive the Zags. We have everyones respect as the "little engine who could." But when it comes to comparisons with the BCS big boys we will never receive an honest and fair level of respect (vis-a-vis the BCS big boys) until we achieve that final four run. When ever talking TV heads gush about GU's conference titles and Few's great win/loss record, the subliminal message is always....but they accomplished these things because they are in a mediocre conference. I disagree with that sentiment, but that just puts me in the minority point of view.

Zagceo
03-03-2014, 10:44 AM
It's a waste of time and keystrokes to get worked up over how Lunardi and the rest of the basketball world perceive the Zags. We have everyones respect as the "little engine who could." But when it comes to comparisons with the BCS big boys we will never receive an honest and fair level of respect (vis-a-vis the BCS big boys) until we achieve that final four run. When ever talking TV heads gush about GU's conference titles and Few's great win/loss record, the subliminal message is always....but they accomplished these things because they are in a mediocre conference. I disagree with that sentiment, but that just puts me in the minority point of view.

+1

Reborn
03-03-2014, 10:54 AM
Duke: @ Notre Dame, @ Clemson
Wisconsin: Norhwestern @ home, @ Indiana, @ Minn
Michigan: @ home Charlotte, @ Indiana
North Carolina: Belmont @ home, @ UAB, @ Wake Forest, Miami @ home.
Southern Methodist: @Southern Florida and @Temple
Michigan: all losses at home: Illinois, Nebraska, Georgetown, Michigan
Iowa: @ Minn. and @ Indiana. They also have 3 losses at home.
Kentucky: Loss to Arkansas twice (we beat Arkansas), South Carolina and Baylor
Oklahoma: Loss to both Lousiana Tech and Texas Tech at home and lost to @ West Virginia whom we beat.
Texas lost to @ Kansas St by 17 points, We lost @ Kansas St by 8.
VCU: Lost to Lousiana Tech and Texas Tech at home and to @ West Virginia whom we beat.
UCLA @ Mizz, and @ Oregon St, and @ Utah
Stephen F. Austin: Lost to @ Texas and @ Eat Tenn. St. They have not played anyone at all accept Texas. HOw do they get ranked ahead of Gonzaga? To me that is a joke.

I'm not saying that we should be ranked above all these teams, but I just wanted to show that there are many teams in the top 28 with at least two bad losses. And a good number of teams with home losses. I just get very irritated when I see the lack of respect given to Gonzaga this year. Michigan St is a team much like Gonzaga who had two starters injured. And they lost 4 games at home during that time. And they just lost to Illinois at home with their two injured players back playing. I also compare us to North Carolina who had players hurt at the beginning of the year and suffered some bad lossses. However, now with everyone back they are somehow forgiven for those losses whereas Gonzaga is not. I also look at Kentucky with two losses to Arkansas, Baylor and South Carolina. I look at VCU with two bad losses at home (Lousiana Tech and Texas Tech) and lost to West Virginia whom we beat. And UCLA has 3 losses on the road to Mizz, Oregon St and Utah. I consider them bad losses. And I really have to wonder about Iowa who is really on a downward slide, losing three of their last four.

My hope is that the Committee will take a closer look at all these teams, like I have. And I am sure they will. All I'm saying that in my opinion GU is a 6th or 7th seed if we win the Conference Tournament. And if we lose in the championship game we have an argument for a 7th seed.

Go Zags!!!

JAGzag
03-03-2014, 11:01 AM
Duke: @ Notre Dame, @ Clemson
Wisconsin: Norhwestern @ home, @ Indiana, @ Minn
Michigan: @ home Charlotte, @ Indiana
North Carolina: Belmont @ home, @ UAB, @ Wake Forest, Miami @ home.
Southern Methodist: @Southern Florida and @Temple
Michigan: all losses at home: Illinois, Nebraska, Georgetown, Michigan
Iowa: @ Minn. and @ Indiana. They also have 3 losses at home.
Kentucky: Loss to Arkansas twice (we beat Arkansas), South Carolina and Baylor
Oklahoma: Loss to both Lousiana Tech and Texas Tech at home and lost to @ West Virginia whom we beat.
Texas lost to @ Kansas St by 17 points, We lost @ Kansas St by 8.
VCU: Lost to Lousiana Tech and Texas Tech at home and to @ West Virginia whom we beat.
UCLA @ Mizz, and @ Oregon St, and @ Utah
Stephen F. Austin: Lost to @ Texas and @ Eat Tenn. St. They have not played anyone at all accept Texas. HOw do they get ranked ahead of Gonzaga? To me that is a joke.

Zags haven't exactly earned their top-25 ranking this year - 6 losses, no marquee wins and 3 losses in the WCC. Not trying to be a debbie-downer, but no one will give us a nod over the power conferences this year. This team needs to kick ass in the Tourney again.

VaBeachZAG
03-03-2014, 11:02 AM
Duke: @ Notre Dame, @ Clemson
Wisconsin: Norhwestern @ home, @ Indiana, @ Minn
Michigan: @ home Charlotte, @ Indiana
North Carolina: Belmont @ home, @ UAB, @ Wake Forest, Miami @ home.
Southern Methodist: @Southern Florida and @Temple
Michigan: all losses at home: Illinois, Nebraska, Georgetown, Michigan
Iowa: @ Minn. and @ Indiana. They also have 3 losses at home.
Kentucky: Loss to Arkansas twice (we beat Arkansas), South Carolina and Baylor
Oklahoma: Loss to both Lousiana Tech and Texas Tech at home and lost to @ West Virginia whom we beat.
Texas lost to @ Kansas St by 17 points, We lost @ Kansas St by 8.
VCU: Lost to Lousiana Tech and Texas Tech at home and to @ West Virginia whom we beat.
UCLA @ Mizz, and @ Oregon St, and @ Utah
Stephen F. Austin: Lost to @ Texas and @ Eat Tenn. St. They have not played anyone at all accept Texas. HOw do they get ranked ahead of Gonzaga? To me that is a joke.

Thanks for the effort you made putting this information together, however, you might wish to consider my post above

Reborn
03-03-2014, 11:16 AM
Thanks for the effort you made putting this information together, however, you might wish to consider my post above

Believe me I have considered what you said and it may be true. I just wanted to take a look at the facts, and get them all down in one place. I have followed NCAA basketball all year, and I honestly believe that Gonzaga could beat many of the top 28 teams ranked ahead of us on a neutral court. At least we could make a case that we could based on how all of these teams have done this year. Where a team plays is so important in NCAA basketball, and maybe this year more than most because there is such parity in NCAA basketball. I just want Gonzaga to get a fair shake and not be sent across the country as punishment for what happened last year. Im just hoping for a fair evaluation.

And let's talk about our two bad losses to Portland and San Diego St. Against Portland we had Gary Bell out, and Sam had just returned, plus about half the starters had the flu (fact). Also sooner or later Portland was bound to beat us.
The same with San Diego. Sooner or later they were bound to beat us, and GU had just lost to BYU. They obvious never recovered from that loss. But honestly, San Diego is still a bad loss, but I don't think Portland is.
Go Zags!!!

caduceus
03-03-2014, 01:00 PM
I kinda see it both ways. I do think the Zags are getting far less respect for their play this year, particularly given how we've won the conference season, and our record and RPI is pretty good.

On the other hand I can see the arguments from the other side, which have some merit. I've seen several "blind resume" discussions on ESPN and elsewhere which don't really make us look all that great. Consider:

Record: 25-6 (13-3)
vs AP top 25: 0-1
vs RPI top 25: 0-0
vs RPI top 50: 1-4
SOS: 92
OOC SOS: 83

So, only five games against RPI top 50, and we lost four of them. We played 18 games against RPI 100+ teams. Some of the "disrespect" is probably due to the fact that we didn't go out and play anyone, anywhere like usual. In some sense we stayed at home in our OCC schedule like the big boys do. Some of it's related to blowing the Dayton game in Maui and playing Chaminade instead of getting a shot at Syracuse and the like. Some of it's related to the blue blood team that pulled out of the Seattle game. But it is what it is.

I do think if we play our best (like against SMC), we can beat almost anyone.

http://i.imgur.com/4amsbEf.gif

Reborn
03-03-2014, 01:13 PM
I kinda see it both ways. I do think the Zags are getting far less respect for their play this year, particularly given how we've won the conference season, and our record and RPI is pretty good.

So, only five games against RPI top 50, and we lost four of them. We played 18 games against RPI 100+ teams. Some of the "disrespect" is probably due to the fact that we didn't go out and play anyone, anywhere like usual. In some sense we stayed at home in our OCC schedule like the big boys do. Some of it's related to blowing the Dayton game in Maui and playing Chaminade instead of getting a shot at Syracuse and the like. Some of it's related to the blue blood team that pulled out of the Seattle game. But it is what it is.

I do think if we play our best (like against SMC), we can beat almost anyone.

http://i.imgur.com/4amsbEf.gif

I disagree. We did NOT just stay at home during our OOC games. We played at very tough places to win: Memphis, K. State and W. Virginia and even Maui. So make sure you get your opinions straight.

roxdoc
03-03-2014, 01:30 PM
Its pretty subjective really. IMO we lost a certain amount of respect from last year when we couldn't produce at the level where we had been placed. Not going to get too many breaks after embarassing the talking heads. But thats ok with me because it gives us a "chip" and makes us an "underdog". Time to surprise some people. GO ZAGS!

bartruff1
03-03-2014, 01:39 PM
Winning solves everything.

Zag365
03-03-2014, 01:42 PM
Forget arguing with the polls. No one outside of our conference and the small number of sports reporters in the PNW pay us much attention so we are regularly underrated, although much less so in recent years. Currently, the polls are not that far off when you look at our modest OOC schedule/record and the USD and UP losses. In any event, I like our somewhat underrated situation. With our improved health, defense, and offensive rhythm, we are capable of one or two tourney wins in a year when there aren't many dominant teams.

kyle dixon
03-03-2014, 01:51 PM
I love this time of year. March is here. My prediction is that the Zags are in the tourney regardless of the WCC tournament. Lose game 1 (Santa Clara), a probable 12 seed with a possible play-in game, win the semifinal game Monday (Pepperdine) then move in to 10-11 territory. Make it to the final and lose a 8/9 seed (BYU after they beat San Diego). I think the ceiling is a 7 seed if the Zags win the WCC tournament.

Zag Man
03-03-2014, 01:55 PM
Zags haven't exactly earned their top-25 ranking this year - 6 losses, no marquee wins and 3 losses in the WCC. Not trying to be a debbie-downer, but no one will give us a nod over the power conferences this year. This team needs to kick ass in the Tourney again.

I agree with JAGZag. We just lost too many games early on due to our inconsistency. However, the last 2 games have given me renewed hope that the team is playing their best basketball at the correct time of the season! It's March Madness time and I look forward to the WCC Tournament. If we play with the same intensity that we played against Pacific and SMC, we will win the tournament, punch our ticket to the Big Dance, and no one will want to play us in the Big Dance! Let's do it!!!!!

Oregonzagnut
03-03-2014, 03:01 PM
Winning solves everything. amen!



roxdox said: IMO we lost a certain amount of respect from last year when we couldn't produce at the level where we had been placed. Not going to get too many breaks after embarassing the talking heads.

My instinct tells me the same, but in reality, what was the bigger embarrassment, Gonzaga as a 1 seed or Wichita St as a 9 seed. At 31-0, the loss to WSU gets more understandable every day. The smart ones will look at the facts. The AP voters not so much. But if they actually take the final AP vote more seriously and look to the data, Gonzaga is a top 25 team in the 3 standard power ratings.

Gonzaga:
RPI #25
Sagarin #22
KenPom #21

DixieZag
03-03-2014, 03:26 PM
It will not help us that we did not play the usual type of tough schedule. It will help us that all our losses are on the road and more than one while we had major players hurt and/or out. Those are not huge considerations but not irrelevant ones either - we always hear the committee looks at injuries and road wins/losses.

maynard g krebs
03-03-2014, 05:02 PM
I don't believe Lunardi has an anti-Zag bias. He's a St Joe's guy, after all, not a BCS honk. Somewhere I saw a composite of 80-some bracket projections, and the Zags are in the 9-10 seed range as a consensus.

My hope is that some big school losses in the last weekend and the conf tourneys, combined with convincing wins over SMC and BYU next wk will get the Zags up to a 7.

seacatfan
03-03-2014, 06:32 PM
Correct to point out that almost everyone has bad losses, but most of those teams have multiple wins that far exceed anything on GU's resume this year. Also timing of losses can explain Zags rank to some degree. Every time they got back into the Top 25, they lost soon thereafter, couldn't move up into the mid teens. Same thing has happened to UCLA this year, who is certainly a quality team and is 2nd place in the Pac 12. When you are ranked in the mid 20's one loss is all it takes to bounce you back out of the top 25. In regards to North Carolina they beat Michigan St., Louisville and Kentucky early in the season but had several terrible losses. Started out 1-4 in the ACC. Not only fell out of the Top 25 but fell off the map. But now they are riding a 12 game win streak including against a Top 5 ranked Duke. They've been rising slowly back up the polls. You can easily argue that their resume stacks up well against many teams in the Top 10.

caduceus
03-03-2014, 06:39 PM
http://i.imgur.com/wlaqAtx.png?1

ZagsGoZags
03-03-2014, 09:24 PM
if we can bring the same game used against SMC to the first two games of the Big Dance, I will be happy, and the pollsters will have under-rated us.

gonzagafan62
03-04-2014, 12:07 PM
http://i.imgur.com/wlaqAtx.png?1

I still don't understand how 55 other teams played a tougher non-conference schedule than us last season.

Reborn
03-04-2014, 06:37 PM
Just in case you were wondering why Virginia is ranked #5 and #1 in WCC I thought I'd show you. They played the following teams just once: Syracuse, Duke, UNC, Pitt, and Clemson. Now how can you tell me this is fair? These are all teams in the top six in their conference behind Virginia. This is what you get in the NCAA nowadays. You get these big conferences where teams don't play all the teams in the conference twice. So how could any of these conference ever really declare a conference champion. This really irritates me, and in's so sad for college basketbaLL i m o. This is the worst thing I've seen all year, and I was pretty much really excited about Virginia until I really took a look. Oh and if you're of the mind that the Polls and the brackets and seeding aren't important, I really disagree with you to some extent.

Now I'm beginning to see why more and more people don't believe conference championships matter, and it's all about the NCAA tournament. Why don't we just forget about conferences, and play all OOC schedule. I'm feeling sick to my stomach. Got to go.

75Zag
03-05-2014, 07:31 AM
After looking at chart on OOC SOS (thanks Caduceus) I had two thoughts - #1 is that there seems to be a fairly close correlation (not a perfect correlation) between OOC SOS and success in the NCAA playoffs. #2 is that for whatever reason, GU has placed itself on a very unfortunate rotation when it comes to pre-season tournaments. This fall GU plays in NYC at the NIT Kickoff where the top tier talent consists of

Georgia Bulldogs (SEC)
Gonzaga Bulldogs (WCC)
Minnesota Golden Gophers (Big Ten)
St. John's Red Storm (Big East)

No disrespect to any of those teams, but they are not KU, UCLA, NC, Duke, 'Cuse, etc. All those teams are going to other pre-season tournaments, including some that GU regularly attends such as Old Spice or Maui, but for whatever reason, they are not there at the same time as GU and most of them have not been there at the same time as GU in quite a while. Wish we could reset our pre-season tournament schedule to play more elite teams at a pre-season tournament since they seem to be extremely hard to play in Spokane or at a neutral site once the NCAA season begins. Of course, to play elite teams at a pre-season we have to win our first game!

Go Bulldogs!

UKWildcatsFan
03-05-2014, 12:50 PM
I love this time of year. March is here. My prediction is that the Zags are in the tourney regardless of the WCC tournament. Lose game 1 (Santa Clara), a probable 12 seed with a possible play-in game, win the semifinal game Monday (Pepperdine) then move in to 10-11 territory. Make it to the final and lose a 8/9 seed (BYU after they beat San Diego). I think the ceiling is a 7 seed if the Zags win the WCC tournament.

For me, I think an 8 seed would be the ceiling.

UKWildcatsFan
03-05-2014, 12:57 PM
No - it is not just you. Our loss to BYU is nowhere near as bad as the loss to South Carolina. Our gutting of SMC - not just a win, a statement - is a better win than some of those mid level BCS wins. Kentucky has that name on the uniform and that coach who's insufferable. I suspect we're right about where we naturally fall. If we win our tourney we'll be 23-25 - also probably about right.

Who said that it was?

seacatfan
03-05-2014, 01:27 PM
After looking at chart on OOC SOS (thanks Caduceus) I had two thoughts - #1 is that there seems to be a fairly close correlation (not a perfect correlation) between OOC SOS and success in the NCAA playoffs. #2 is that for whatever reason, GU has placed itself on a very unfortunate rotation when it comes to pre-season tournaments. This fall GU plays in NYC at the NIT Kickoff where the top tier talent consists of

Georgia Bulldogs (SEC)
Gonzaga Bulldogs (WCC)
Minnesota Golden Gophers (Big Ten)
St. John's Red Storm (Big East)

No disrespect to any of those teams, but they are not KU, UCLA, NC, Duke, 'Cuse, etc. All those teams are going to other pre-season tournaments, including some that GU regularly attends such as Old Spice or Maui, but for whatever reason, they are not there at the same time as GU and most of them have not been there at the same time as GU in quite a while. Wish we could reset our pre-season tournament schedule to play more elite teams at a pre-season tournament since they seem to be extremely hard to play in Spokane or at a neutral site once the NCAA season begins. Of course, to play elite teams at a pre-season we have to win our first game!

Go Bulldogs!

The pre-season NIT isn't what it used to be, but that's a particularly weak looking field. This year's final pitted Duke against Arizona. The Maui has been slipping in recent years as well.

seacatfan
03-05-2014, 01:30 PM
Just in case you were wondering why Virginia is ranked #5 and #1 in WCC I thought I'd show you. They played the following teams just once: Syracuse, Duke, UNC, Pitt, and Clemson. Now how can you tell me this is fair? These are all teams in the top six in their conference behind Virginia. This is what you get in the NCAA nowadays. You get these big conferences where teams don't play all the teams in the conference twice. So how could any of these conference ever really declare a conference champion. This really irritates me, and in's so sad for college basketbaLL i m o. This is the worst thing I've seen all year, and I was pretty much really excited about Virginia until I really took a look. Oh and if you're of the mind that the Polls and the brackets and seeding aren't important, I really disagree with you to some extent.

Now I'm beginning to see why more and more people don't believe conference championships matter, and it's all about the NCAA tournament. Why don't we just forget about conferences, and play all OOC schedule. I'm feeling sick to my stomach. Got to go.

Virginia has still had a nice season, but it's a very valid point. Bloated conferences w/ unbalanced schedules don't lend themselves to truly determining the best team in the conference. College sports has absolutely sold out to the interests of football and every other sport has suffered because of it. The landscape of college athletics doesn't remotely resemble what I grew up loving, and I hate that. Screw you BCS football!

gonzagafan62
03-05-2014, 01:33 PM
The pre-season NIT isn't what it used to be, but that's a particularly weak looking field. This year's final pitted Duke against Arizona. The Maui has been slipping in recent years as well.

Actually I think that's going to be a very VERY good field. St. Johns and Minnesota have some really good recruits next season. If we can put those two wins on our resume for next year, we will be sitting pretty.

Pleasant Peninsula
03-05-2014, 03:42 PM
I still don't understand how 55 other teams played a tougher non-conference schedule than us last season.

That's because the toughest schedules are generally the bad teams in the really small conferences, who play all their OOC games on the road against far superior opponents. There will always be a handful of big boy schools in the top 50 or so, but mostly its the Alcorn State's of the NCAA.