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Unbiased
02-28-2014, 06:04 AM
At 3:35 minutes left in the game and up on Pacific by 18, the Zags go into a stall offense. Can anyone explain that?

jazzdelmar
02-28-2014, 06:07 AM
At 3:35 minutes left in the game and up on Pacific by 18, the Zags go into a stall offense. Can anyone explain that?

You must be new here? Arch conservatism is the short answer.

LongIslandZagFan
02-28-2014, 06:09 AM
At 3:35 minutes left in the game and up on Pacific by 18, the Zags go into a stall offense. Can anyone explain that?

From what I saw... the boys were pretty much doing whatever they wanted. It had been oscillating between 18-22 points for the 3-4 minutes before that. I don't think the game was even close to being in doubt at that point... better to eat clock.

cjm720
02-28-2014, 06:14 AM
Wanted to secure the win. Would have been cool to get the bench warmers a bit more time IMO.

Oregonzagnut
02-28-2014, 06:14 AM
Just play hard or 40 minutes. We need to build that mentality for the Dance. Anything less builds bad habits. If we are that far ahead, let Pacific manage the clock. I say clock management/ slow tempo has been our achilles heel in the past so avoid it like the plague. Gonzaga needs to stay on their toes for the entire 40 minutes. If we ease up on offense there is an inevitable easing up on defense too and our opponents always seem to make runs.

Pacific never made the run though because our guys didn't really slow it down as much as they usually do. I think it was clear we needed this win at all cost.

bartruff1
02-28-2014, 06:20 AM
Natural Selection...all living things do it, even plants ......even Microorganisms normally found in the brains of coaches and athletes ...

MTZag03
02-28-2014, 06:31 AM
Not to mention MF does not like to run up the score on opponents.

sittingon50
02-28-2014, 06:58 AM
+ there were a lot of guys (read bigs) in foul trouble. Slow the game down; limit possessions.

CDC84
02-28-2014, 07:24 AM
As sittingon50 says.....limit possessions. One of the stupidest things a team can do is play the same way throughout the entire game without considering the score. If you're up 18 with 3:35 left, and you have any kind of offense and some reliable foul shooters and ball handlers, it's going to be next to impossible for the other team to come back if you chew up 30 seconds on the shot clock.

In fact, if the Zags were up 18 with 6:35 left, I would still advise them to run good offense but focus on using some of the shot clock. The last thing you want to do in that situation is launch a bad three pointer 7 seconds into the shot clock. It leads to run outs and easy points for the other team.

vandalzag
02-28-2014, 07:25 AM
Because 99% of coaches would say that when you have a lead at that point the clock is your best friend, that is why teams foul when behind, so they can extend the game. There are no rewards for point differential. It is the job of the team from behind to take quick shots. Taking shots early in the clock with a lead is just dumb. Pushing the pace, when the other team is sitting below the 3 pt line would be crazy. Go in the other direction say the Zags had a 10pt lead with 3 and were pushing the pace and missing shots allowing Pacific to close the gap and then take the lead. The same people getting on him for being "conservative" would be all over Few for not working the clock and playing smarter. Also Few will not run up the score, that is why he will put the walkons in and coaches like Verlin and Goode will keep pressing and trapping with starters when there is less than 2 minutes left and down by 17

Zags11
02-28-2014, 07:27 AM
That is smart in my books. Now if up 17 with half to go...no.

bballbeachbum
02-28-2014, 07:37 AM
good practice to run it imo. Great guard play makes that tick, can be tricky to pull off the gas of course and still be aggressive and keep scoring. getting fouled on penetration is an important part of the stall, and hitting FTs; spread them out and attack

wnczagfan
02-28-2014, 07:40 AM
As sittingon50 says.....limit possessions. One of the stupidest things a team can do is play the same way throughout the entire game without considering the score. If you're up 18 with 3:35 left, and you have any kind of offense and some reliable foul shooters and ball handlers, it's going to be next to impossible for the other team to come back if you chew up 30 seconds on the shot clock.

In fact, if the Zags were up 18 with 6:35 left, I would still advise them to run good offense but focus on using some of the shot clock. The last thing you want to do in that situation is launch a bad three pointer 7 seconds into the shot clock. It leads to run outs and easy points for the other team.

Agree with you and Vandalzag; running the clock is wise, but as you said, we run it down too far before making our move. We then either dont get a shot off at all, or throw up a prayer from outside, which seems half the time bounces so far off the rim that it leads to a fast break situation for the opponent, stranding our players under our own basket. We need to start looking for a shot with 10-15 on the clock, not 7-8....

bartruff1
02-28-2014, 07:45 AM
I remember when Max had a team down by about 15 with about 3 minutes left .... and the kids starting running up the floor and jacking up shots early in the clock ... and he called a time out with a red face and told them to run all the time off the clock and throw the damn ball in the stands.....

I don't remember the game now...but some kid on a team with a 2 point lead and 6 seconds left got a turnover and went down and dunked the ball and hung on the rim and should have cost them the game.... the talking heads call it clock management.....

23dpg
02-28-2014, 07:52 AM
At 3:35 minutes left in the game and up on Pacific by 18, the Zags go into a stall offense. Can anyone explain that?

They
won
by
17
?!?

former1dog
02-28-2014, 07:54 AM
Although the outcome was not in doubt, I hate the run out the clock by standing around for 25 seconds strategy. Just run the damn offense and don't take a shot early in the clock.

kitzbuel
02-28-2014, 08:17 AM
Although the outcome was not in doubt, I hate the run out the clock by standing around for 25 seconds strategy. Just run the damn offense and don't take a shot early in the clock.

IMO that is similar to telling a QB and receiver to slow down a timing pattern; just run the same pattern, but slow it down. That doesn't work, the play relies on the same timing and rhythm.

When they run an offensive set it is designed to create a high percentage shot within the timing of the set. Slow the set down and the defense has no problem defending it and the end result of a high percentage shot is completely negated.

former1dog
02-28-2014, 08:21 AM
IMO that is similar to telling a QB and receiver to slow down a timing pattern; just run the same pattern, but slow it down. That doesn't work, the play relies on the same timing and rhythm.

When they run an offensive set it is designed to create a high percentage shot within the timing of the set. Slow the set down and the defense has no problem defending it and the end result of a high percentage shot is completely negated.

I understand your point, but I'm not really calling for them to "slow down". I would prefer they run the motion offense at regular speed. Take a lay up of course, but only take any other kind of shot when the clock gets down to single digits.

The slow down has driven me nuts since the UCLA debacle for obvious reasons.

Just to reiterate, I know the win wasn't in question last night when they started to employ the stand around and wait strategy.

cjm720
02-28-2014, 08:23 AM
Although the outcome was not in doubt, I hate the run out the clock by standing around for 25 seconds strategy. Just run the damn offense and don't take a shot early in the clock.

Hard to do with the pressure the defense was putting on. Seems like they did well with the defense that was shown.

former1dog
02-28-2014, 08:25 AM
Hard to do with the pressure the defense was putting on. Seems like they did well with the defense that was shown.

Well, they won and didn't give up the big lead. I still hate that stand at half court wearing out the floor crap. Sorry.

ZAGLAWQB
02-28-2014, 09:00 AM
Invaluable tool to practice going into March. Next time it will be a close game and they will have done it correctly...subtle coaching move...Few does so many things correct at the right opportunity.

cjm720
02-28-2014, 09:46 AM
That's what I think he was doing by having three starters in at the end - Stocks, Pangos, and Bell. He was letting them play with two guys that may be needed and seeing how well they could set up plays together. IIRC, this was right before the stalling.

caduceus
02-28-2014, 12:15 PM
At 3:41 (67 - 49 score), the Zags lead was statistically 95% safe. At 1:41 it was 100% (68 - 49). Game was essentially over.

seacatfan
02-28-2014, 02:28 PM
I understand the clock is your friend when you are ahead late in a game, but I'm also not a fan of holding the ball til the last seconds of the shot clock each possession and then desperately trying to manufacture a shot. It rarely leads to buckets. I definitely agree w/ not shooting early in the shot clock, but keep running your offense and take a good shot when you get it. While the strategy is statistically safe, I've definitely seen it backfire on enough occasions to not trust it (not just the Zags, speaking in general terms having watched a lot of games over the years). I like it about as much as the prevent defense in football, which has proven to be a failure over and over again.

primal23
02-28-2014, 02:38 PM
Natural Selection...all living things do it, even plants ......even Microorganisms normally found in the brains of coaches and athletes ...

Midichlorians?