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View Full Version : Do you think there's been less 'flashy passing' at GU lately?



gozagswoohoo
02-24-2014, 07:19 PM
Random thread, yes... But my favorite part of the game is passing. I remember watching zags games a few years back, and a zag would make a pass that made me jump out of my seat and say wow! But I'm having trouble thinking of anything like that lately. Maybe my memory is bad. If so, please remind me!!

I remember watching Pangos' highlight reels, thinking.....'Wow...this kid is going to have one of those WOW passes once a game!!'

Ekrub
02-24-2014, 08:15 PM
Coleman's had a few dimes. Stockton has gotten away from making riskier passes, but he'd be our best if he pulled the trigger.

ZAGGED OUT
02-24-2014, 08:15 PM
I feel like KD and GC have both made a number of great passes, but especially KD. Some of his post passes have got me out of my seat. Bell had a bounce pass to Dower down low that got me goin. Also, didn't Karno throw an oop to Nunez this year?

Don't worry though, you'll get all the flashy passes you can handle with Josh Perkins next year!


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ZAGGED OUT
02-24-2014, 08:16 PM
Actually, I'm sure Few will leash up his flashiness, but still, he's a GREAT passer


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Baseline
02-24-2014, 09:20 PM
Yes, I think there are less of them as the style of game right now isn't for the back door cuts or for the lob for the dunk. It has evolved to a pass around the perimeter and look for someone open.

jim77
02-25-2014, 12:41 AM
Agreed Whoooohooo. I think we could use more of that old school Zag ball....if a guy can't get himself open...then help him. My coach used to say: "No defense is quicker than the pass" Sharp passing is the great equalizer and the main reason the Zags have had the success they have had....I too like to see the ZAGS team carve up another team with passing.

wnczagfan
02-25-2014, 04:11 AM
Woohoo, I have noticed this too. I am not sure what is causing it, although I agree with one poster above that Kyle has thrown in some nice ones, and I will be excited to see him play over the next two years!

I have a few working theories about the passing. See if you think any of these ring true:

1) The other teams have scouted us, seen us, and know us at this point, and are better at intercepting or blocking our "sidewinder" bounce passes into the lane, thus creating turnovers or stopping the pass altogether, rather than us getting to see a sweet dime.

2) Our players are fatigued. Our end of game slumps seem to point to this idea. Pangos is playing almost every minute of the game, and often suffering turf toe; we can see that he had three turnovers in the last 5 minutes of the last game (I also think the ball handling is better when both he and Stockton are out there together to play off of). This fatigue keeps the players from moving without the ball to draw defenders and open up passing lanes. This is why I am a proponent of some of our bench players getting a little more time, so we can reduce the minutes of, and rest, certain players, so they will be fresher at the end of the game.

3) Stockton has played less minutes in the last few games, and he is one of the primary sweet dime deliverers. No Stockton, no sweet dimes.


Let me know what you think.

bartruff1
02-25-2014, 04:42 AM
Yes...the smart pass is not the " flashy pass "..... if you make the simple play , you have a better chance to succeed .

I like the pass(s) that lead to a high percentage shot. It is very entertaining for me to watch them pass the ball, a thing of teamwork and beauty.

Vanzagger
02-25-2014, 07:24 AM
This team has the fewest dunks of any Zag team and it's not even close. Maybe Blake can teach a lob seminar.

The Kennel loves the 3 ball but nothing is like an old fashion rim rocker

bartruff1
02-25-2014, 07:33 AM
PARGO....

DixieZag
02-25-2014, 07:40 AM
Yes, I think there are less of them as the style of game right now isn't for the back door cuts or for the lob for the dunk. It has evolved to a pass around the perimeter and look for someone open.

I think this hits the nail on the head.

In the last few years we've been blessed with elite bigs and the focus has been getting them the ball in position down low. We're not running guards through the baseline looking to spot up. It's when the guards/small forwards and rotating sides and the defense over plays that leads to back door picks which are a thing of beauty because the timing has to be perfect and when it is leads to an uncontested lay up.

gonzagafan62
02-25-2014, 07:50 AM
PARGO....

How bout this play? Who remembers this? I think this will satisfy both Whoohoo AND bartruff1. Even I went nuts, and that usually doesn't happen when we are up 30+

I remember watching this play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrGQWlxybxQ

northsidezagfan
02-25-2014, 09:12 AM
This team has the fewest dunks of any Zag team and it's not even close. Maybe Blake can teach a lob seminar.

The Kennel loves the 3 ball but nothing is like an old fashion rim rocker

Nobody to throw it to...

bballbeachbum
02-25-2014, 10:06 AM
I like this team's passing, but to do what the OP asks, being able to beat your man and draw the D, collapse the D, is a big part of it. Instead what teams seem to be doing vs. the Zags is force the drive from the perimeter and then stay home off the ball on D, forcing the penetrator to try and create a shot and finish. maybe that's just my perception but it's been happening more lately imo. I have no stats to back that up, sorry.

gamagin
02-25-2014, 10:25 AM
No. I think I've seen some the best ever, which is why DS is in the top ten & PK could be, too. The issue for me the last 7-8 years seems to be the receivers at the other end.

That said, SD is among the best in a long time. EH maybe his last year, but not as good a shooter, IMO.

The speed of the game plus the learning curve plus the euro/Canadian learning curve all contribute and likely cannot be speeded up. But conditioning and cognition can be speeded up. I think PK has improved in leaps and bounds. Really impressed, even though in some ways he is way behind, especially footwork

Reminds me of RS in a lot of way. He hesitates and drops his arm w/ball before going back up, and every player on the other team gets a hand on it. He' ll learn. But PK "might" wind up w/the softest hands ever in the few era. I think it/s possible.

gozagswoohoo
02-25-2014, 10:40 AM
Reminds me of RS in a lot of way. He hesitates and drops his arm w/ball before going back up, and every player on the other team gets a hand on it.

He would average 2-4 points more a game if he can 'fix' that. And yes, Sacre did that too. It seems like such a simple concept, don't even bring that ball DOWN to start!


gonzagafan62- Oh my lanta. One of my favorite's....


wnczagfan- Interesting thoughts/observations, and I'm not sure that any ONE of those three are completely the issue. Like a couple have pointed out in this thread, I am starting to think a lot of it has to do with 'who' is on the other end of the passes. Aside from Coleman and Nunez, we really don't have anyone to throw any oops too (and those 2 aren't really getting enough PT for there to be too many opportunities for the lob. Plus, with their limited time, they are probably trying to be somewhat cautious anyway, who knows if they're looking for the oop-opportunity?). But like Gam mentioned, I think with Karno, he doesn't quite have the speed to make a quick flashy finish. So any nice pass to him usually get's held onto while he stops to get set and THEN make a move.


As odd is it sounds, I think this particular squad we have this year might be one of the slowest in recent years. In terms of SPEED available, that's totally the opposite. I think as a whole, if you line these guys up with guys from the last few seasons, they are probably the fastest. But for whatever reason, as far as PLAYING SPEED goes...they seem slower to me. Maybe that's just me?

gamagin
02-25-2014, 12:04 PM
He would average 2-4 points more a game if he can 'fix' that. And yes, Sacre did that too. It seems like such a simple concept, don't even bring that ball DOWN to start!


gonzagafan62- Oh my lanta. One of my favorite's....


wnczagfan- Interesting thoughts/observations, and I'm not sure that any ONE of those three are completely the issue. Like a couple have pointed out in this thread, I am starting to think a lot of it has to do with 'who' is on the other end of the passes. Aside from Coleman and Nunez, we really don't have anyone to throw any oops too (and those 2 aren't really getting enough PT for there to be too many opportunities for the lob. Plus, with their limited time, they are probably trying to be somewhat cautious anyway, who knows if they're looking for the oop-opportunity?). But like Gam mentioned, I think with Karno, he doesn't quite have the speed to make a quick flashy finish. So any nice pass to him usually get's held onto while he stops to get set and THEN make a move.


As odd is it sounds, I think this particular squad we have this year might be one of the slowest in recent years. In terms of SPEED available, that's totally the opposite. I think as a whole, if you line these guys up with guys from the last few seasons, they are probably the fastest. But for whatever reason, as far as PLAYING SPEED goes...they seem slower to me. Maybe that's just me?

+1
Good points. I think PK, (feet & positioning) may be the slowest since RS. It took RS 5 years to get it with all the flies swatting at him to the end. MANY foul outs, too. when he finally learned how to react, naturally, he wound up getting tons of points at the line. And scored 10+ There many nights & a trip to the NBA. Few mentioned that is now the problem w/guards, too. Floating vs driving.

To your point, and the one I heard from MF, you take those 2-4 points you should have, add in SD 's bad nights where he cudn't buy a bunny, and DS-KP lost that many more assists, we lost that many more f.t.'s. Compound the failure to hunt and shoot, and suddenly those 10-15 point advantages disappeared until the smarter more focused teams and coaches worked it all 40 minutes and got their prized W's.

It won't kill us unless we let it. We have to become the hunter again, IMO. So release the hounds.