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Zagsker
02-22-2014, 11:42 PM
Can other teams get their shooters open but we continuously fail?

Oregonzagnut
02-23-2014, 12:50 AM
Can other teams get their shooters open but we continuously fail?

The other teams have decided that defending for 40 minutes, rebounding for 40 minutes and running and gunning for 40 minutes is how you win games. And it works against us especially.

Somehow we are not committed to doing that yet. You either hunt or you are hunted.

Oh and it helps if USD get 33 FTs and Gonzaga only 11.

USD was rewarded for flopping, cheap shotting and getting every ticky-tack foul call. The flopping was sickening IMO.

kyle dixon
02-23-2014, 06:26 AM
The Zags got beat. The refs called a fair game. Need to be more aggressive on the offensive end.

willandi
02-23-2014, 07:14 AM
The Zags got beat. The refs called a fair game. Need to be more aggressive on the offensive end.

I don't think that your statement is fully right. There were at least 2 fouls called on Karnowski and on 2 on Sam that were pretty bogus. Since it was the inside game that San Diego couldn't match up wit, it took the strength out of the Zags and gave it to San Diego. If not for those four calls it would probably benn a different ending. You, of course, are free to believe that the refs had nothing to do with the outcome, as I am free to believe that they did.

Ezag
02-23-2014, 07:45 AM
I don't think that your statement is fully right. There were at least 2 fouls called on Karnowski and on 2 on Sam that were pretty bogus. Since it was the inside game that San Diego couldn't match up wit, it took the strength out of the Zags and gave it to San Diego. If not for those four calls it would probably benn a different ending. You, of course, are free to believe that the refs had nothing to do with the outcome, as I am free to believe that they did.

hmmm, we lost to Memphis because of the refs, we lost to SD because of the refs and if I recall there was a couple suspect calls against K St. Man, you have to expect that in their house. Everyone knows that the home team advantage usually gives them 6-7 points and a few extra calls. It works this way in the Kennel to our advantage and against us on the road. We need to quit blaming the refs every time we lose and play to frickin' win. We don't. We're lucky to only have this many losses. There was a couple more games we shouldn't have won.

zag944
02-23-2014, 07:53 AM
Can other teams get their shooters open but we continuously fail?

Because we start three guards, of whom only one is a good perimeter defender and of whom only one is a confident shooter (and he is ice cold)

willandi
02-23-2014, 08:02 AM
hmmm, we lost to Memphis because of the refs, we lost to SD because of the refs and if I recall there was a couple suspect calls against K St. Man, you have to expect that in their house. Everyone knows that the home team advantage usually gives them 6-7 points and a few extra calls. It works this way in the Kennel to our advantage and against us on the road. We need to quit blaming the refs every time we lose and play to frickin' win. We don't. We're lucky to only have this many losses. There was a couple more games we shouldn't have won.

I wasn't blaming the refs. I was challenging his statement that the refs were not involved in the outcome. You, of course, are 100% right...it never is the refs, it is always the team not playing hard enough, and we start 3 short guys. So what was your point? My mind wanders.

Ezag
02-23-2014, 08:06 AM
I wasn't blaming the refs. I was challenging his statement that the refs were not involved in the outcome. You, of course, are 100% right...it never is the refs, it is always the team not playing hard enough, and we start 3 short guys. So what was your point? My mind wanders.

No I think you are also right, but I have no point, I never do, I have ADD and ADHD mixed in with OCD so now I need to

willandi
02-23-2014, 08:09 AM
No I think you are also right, but I have no point, I never do, I have ADD and ADHD mixed in with OCD so now I need to
I used to have a point, but mid January I had a mild stroke. Now my posts are mostly pointless. I hope that ADD and those others aren't contagious...I caught dyslexia from my wife, never had it before but seem to now! Go figure! LOL

GrizZAG
02-23-2014, 08:17 AM
I don't think that your statement is fully right. There were at least 2 fouls called on Karnowski and on 2 on Sam that were pretty bogus. Since it was the inside game that San Diego couldn't match up wit, it took the strength out of the Zags and gave it to San Diego. If not for those four calls it would probably benn a different ending. You, of course, are free to believe that the refs had nothing to do with the outcome, as I am free to believe that they did.

I agree with Willandi. Bad ref work is usually bad both ways and maybe it was and we just saw the bad calls on our guys but the numbers are lopsided and telling in my view. I also agree that we need plays to get our shooting guards open to fire up some 3's. They were pretty locked down all night. DS did not have a good game.

john montana
02-23-2014, 08:17 AM
Simple...other teams set screens...we don't set good screens.

SunDevilGolfZag
02-23-2014, 08:53 AM
Or, too often, our dribblers don't wait for the screen to be fully set -- happened multiple times last night. Poor fundamentals

VinnyZag
02-23-2014, 09:04 AM
Can other teams get their shooters open but we continuously fail?

Been asking myself the same question. I don't think Dee is a better player than Pangos, and he was just as much a focus of Gonzaga's defense as Dee was of San Diego's. But Dee still managed to get some points. Lots of double and triple screens in the half court to get him looks. Not seeing much of that for Pangos.

Is it the injury? Maybe. I guess. But I wonder if it's also lack of creativity in the offense. Maybe GU has been scouted so thoroughly at this point that defenses know where the ball is going.

Baseline
02-23-2014, 11:50 AM
We are open, but the guys are passing up the shots. Also, they seem happy to pass it around the perimeter without working screens. If you want to understand how its done just watch Dee work the floor. He is in constant motion running loops around screens. Even though Bell held him somewhat in check, his efforts show how it needs to be done. Look at Hawes's game, the same thing. We have no one coming close to those efforts, then again I doubt its in the game plan.

ZagHouse
02-23-2014, 12:16 PM
That's not our offense right now....maybe early in the season. We play inside out. The problem is the outside players are not hunting their shots or looking to shoot. BYU and SD need Haws and Dee to run through multiple screens because they are both teams' primary offense. Out of time outs or dead ball situations, you'll see more motion from our guys, but feeding the ball into the post is what is apparently the game plan. This ties into the boring thread because the ball moves around the perimeter until one of our bigs gets inside position. Sam or Shem goes to work and we either score or miss and rarely ever get an offensive rebound. When we were winning easily, the ball would come back out occasionally and we'd swing it to hit the open shooter. The guys just watch now.

wnczagfan
02-23-2014, 12:25 PM
Not going to blame the refs for this one, although USD deserved some academy awards for flopping. My main problem was with whoever was running the clock. One time the shot clock reset when there should have been a shot clock violation. Fortunately the refs corrected this problem. However, at the end of the game (when Stockton was trying to save our ass) I noticed an awful lot of time roll off the clock (and it was left that way) in situations, and I thought the refs should have reviewed and added time back. Seconds, mind you, but if Stocks had 2 or 3 seconds at the end for that final shot instead of .1, maybe he could have gotten off a better shot. Did anyone else notice that?

wnczagfan
02-23-2014, 02:18 PM
Not going to blame the refs for this one, although USD deserved some academy awards for flopping. My main problem was with whoever was running the clock. One time the shot clock reset when there should have been a shot clock violation. Fortunately the refs corrected this problem. However, at the end of the game (when Stockton was trying to save our ass) I noticed an awful lot of time roll off the clock (and it was left that way) in situations, and I thought the refs should have reviewed and added time back. Seconds, mind you, but if Stocks had 2 or 3 seconds at the end for that final shot instead of .1, maybe he could have gotten off a better shot. Did anyone else notice that?

Hello?

HELLO?

Echo
........................................Echo
.................................................. .......................................Echo

Dang, I am on everyone's ignore list already!

vandalzag
02-23-2014, 02:36 PM
Simple...other teams set screens...we don't set good screens.


Or, too often, our dribblers don't wait for the screen to be fully set -- happened multiple times last night. Poor fundamentals

Both spot on. Seems like the reliance of the dibble exchange has cut down on the use and effectiveness of screens. I think one of the reason for DS to share the floor with KP is so KP can rub off screens and get open. But this is not happening. Look at the amount of movement without the ball Haws and Dee do, would like to see KP do that instead of trying to run the pick and roll with PK. Last nights game was text book by SD on how to disrupt the guards by switching hard on the screens. This is really effective when the primary ball handler can't penetrate, making it easier to jump out.

vandalzag
02-23-2014, 02:37 PM
Hello?

HELLO?

Echo
........................................Echo
.................................................. .......................................Echo

Dang, I am on everyone's ignore list already!

I hear ya

wnczagfan
02-23-2014, 03:56 PM
I hear ya

Thanks!

wnczagfan
02-23-2014, 03:59 PM
Both spot on. Seems like the reliance of the dibble exchange has cut down on the use and effectiveness of screens. I think one of the reason for DS to share the floor with KP is so KP can rub off screens and get open. But this is not happening. Look at the amount of movement without the ball Haws and Dee do, would like to see KP do that instead of trying to run the pick and roll with PK. Last nights game was text book by SD on how to disrupt the guards by switching hard on the screens. This is really effective when the primary ball handler can't penetrate, making it easier to jump out.

Seems to me, Kevin Pangos is best as a shooting guard with Stockton running the post. When Stockton is having an off game, perhaps Dranginis should run the point, leaving Pangos free to hunt his shot.

willandi
02-23-2014, 05:46 PM
Not going to blame the refs for this one, although USD deserved some academy awards for flopping. My main problem was with whoever was running the clock. One time the shot clock reset when there should have been a shot clock violation. Fortunately the refs corrected this problem. However, at the end of the game (when Stockton was trying to save our ass) I noticed an awful lot of time roll off the clock (and it was left that way) in situations, and I thought the refs should have reviewed and added time back. Seconds, mind you, but if Stocks had 2 or 3 seconds at the end for that final shot instead of .1, maybe he could have gotten off a better shot. Did anyone else notice that?

I noticed that! With 3.2 on the clock, Pangos fouled at, or before, the inbounds pass and a second ran off. It should have been reviewed. I don't know if a full second would have made any difference, but when every second counts, it couldn't hurt!