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demian
02-22-2014, 10:21 PM
tough loss. not a real surprise tho. Better bounce back next week. Get it out of our system over next 24 hours. Better win conference tourney if have hopes of getting into the big dance

U Zig, I Zag
02-22-2014, 10:24 PM
Guard play sucks. Really all there is to it.

Play the bigger guys. Play Coleman and KD more. Press more. TAKE THE CHIP SHOTS AND LAY-INS AND HIT THEM.

Bell or someone needs to take over the emotional aspect of this team. The bigs played great, as almost always - but we lack a leader on the court, that's what I am seeing.

SWZag
02-22-2014, 10:24 PM
Not sure it's ever ok to be negative.

But the loss does overshadow Dower's big night. 18 points and 15 rebounds. We just needed 1 more player to pick it up and play. Unfortunately, no one got into the rhythm, and USD defense had a lot to do with that.

SWZag

Ezag
02-22-2014, 10:26 PM
At least the losses are easier to take once you get used to them

demian
02-22-2014, 10:27 PM
I hear ya SWZag, but it is also phony to be positive after tonights game (in regards to zags mens hoops)


Not sure it's ever ok to be negative.

But the loss does overshadow Dower's big night. 18 points and 15 rebounds. We just needed 1 more player to pick it up and play. Unfortunately, no one got into the rhythm, and USD defense had a lot to do with that.

SWZag

demian
02-22-2014, 10:27 PM
At least the losses are easier to take once you get used to them


haha I am experiencing that same feeling Ezag

MJ777
02-22-2014, 10:28 PM
Beat Pacific!!

exclusivelee
02-22-2014, 10:28 PM
Auto Qualifier Only

HenneZag
02-22-2014, 10:29 PM
Its not all Pangos, but we won't win many games if he has an off night, and he has had alot of them lately, also some pretty bad turnovers tonight. We lack toughness and grit. We are trending down at the wrong time and still have 2 very tough road games. I want to see the fire that we use to have, and that will to win. We need to win our next 2 road games. I am starting to feel we need a WCC tourney win regardless of how the conference shakes out, just dissapointing.

I want to see a different looking lineup, might as well. More KD/Coleman/Nunez and even Edwards.

Mantua
02-22-2014, 10:29 PM
We knew it was going to be a tough year. It's just tougher than we imagined.

demian
02-22-2014, 10:29 PM
I agree with you U Zig, I Zag, who knows what will happen in march tho. although I don't expect much at all.


Guard play sucks. Really all there is to it.

Play the bigger guys. Play Coleman and KD more. Press more. TAKE THE CHIP SHOTS AND LAY-INS AND HIT THEM.

Bell or someone needs to take over the emotional aspect of this team. The bigs played great, as almost always - but we lack a leader on the court, that's what I am seeing.

demian
02-22-2014, 10:30 PM
touche


Beat Pacific!!

thegloriousgoateeofKP
02-22-2014, 10:30 PM
The key to happiness is low expectations.

thespywhozaggedme
02-22-2014, 10:31 PM
haha I am experiencing that same feeling Ezag

Me to, before when we lost, I used to get upset and lose sleep, not I've accepted it. We're just not very good this year. I aint even mad.

MJ777
02-22-2014, 10:31 PM
The key to happiness is low expectations.

That explains why Dems are so happy these days.....oops politics, don't ban me.

demian
02-22-2014, 10:32 PM
absolutely


Auto Qualifier Only

MJ777
02-22-2014, 10:32 PM
Me to, before when we lost, I used to get upset and lose sleep, not I've accepted it. We're just not very good this year. I aint even mad.

+1

Oregonzagnut
02-22-2014, 10:32 PM
Not sure it's ever ok to be negative.

With every negative there must be a positive. Yin and yang. But here as in most places, telling the truth is seen as negative. So our gurad play wasn't the whole issue...

The refs decided this one. Hate to say it but it is true. 33 fould shots for USD and 11 for us. the flopping and cheap plays allowed USD to cheap out a win.

Zagtime3000
02-22-2014, 10:34 PM
definition of insanity = doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Birddog
02-22-2014, 10:35 PM
FREETHROWS

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 10:36 PM
Its not all Pangos, but we won't win many games if he has an off night, and he has had alot of them lately, also some pretty bad turnovers tonight. We lack toughness and grit. We are trending down at the wrong time and still have 2 very tough road games. I want to see the fire that we use to have, and that will to win. We need to win our next 2 road games. I am starting to feel we need a WCC tourney win regardless of how the conference shakes out, just dissapointing.

I want to see a different looking lineup, might as well. More KD/Coleman/Nunez and even Edwards.

Agreed not all on Pangos, but you can't have it both ways, this was supposed to be his team, Cousy list and all. If you are going to wear the crown you have to act like the king. The turnover at the end of the game where he drove to the middle, jump stopped and punted the ball speaks volumes. The big dog on the team takes a shot or gets to the foul line on that, nothing less. He DS have pretty much the identical line tonight, yet DS played 15 minutes and KP was around 38

demian
02-22-2014, 10:37 PM
Its not all Pangos, but we won't win many games if he has an off night, and he has had alot of them lately, also some pretty bad turnovers tonight. We lack toughness and grit. We are trending down at the wrong time and still have 2 very tough road games. I want to see the fire that we use to have, and that will to win. We need to win our next 2 road games. I am starting to feel we need a WCC tourney win regardless of how the conference shakes out, just dissapointing.

I want to see a different looking lineup, might as well. More KD/Coleman/Nunez and even Edwards.

Yeah very disappointing but not a total shock either. It is a tough close to the schedule with the Memphis game on road and the last four games on road against decent teams. but it is what it is. conference tourney champions is the only way this team deserves or will get into the big dance. Oh well. season isn't over tho

gobroncsgozags
02-22-2014, 10:37 PM
With every negative there must be a positive. Yin and yang. But here as in most places, telling the truth is seen as negative. So our gurad play wasn't the whole issue...

The refs decided this one. Hate to say it but it is true. 33 fould shots for USD and 11 for us. the flopping and cheap plays allowed USD to cheap out a win.

+1 Too bad Grier feels the need to coach his team like that. If the refs are eating it up though...

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 10:37 PM
With every negative there must be a positive. Yin and yang. But here as in most places, telling the truth is seen as negative. So our gurad play wasn't the whole issue...

The refs decided this one. Hate to say it but it is true. 33 fould shots for USD and 11 for us. the flopping and cheap plays allowed USD to cheap out a win.

Agreed only way SD stays in the game, but that is playing on the road. Actually kind of amazing the Zags had a chance to win it based on those numbers

demian
02-22-2014, 10:37 PM
haha


The key to happiness is low expectations.

thegloriousgoateeofKP
02-22-2014, 10:40 PM
Here's what I'm listening to as I try to fall asleep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI95V20Tixo&feature=kp

Oregonzagnut
02-22-2014, 10:40 PM
Agreed only way SD stays in the game, but that is playing on the road. Actually kind of amazing the Zags had a chance to win it based on those numbers

WE shot 50% from field and 46% from 3. We made 6 FT's

USD shot 40% from field and 36% from 3. USD made 23 FT's

Sickening ref job IMO. Our guards got manhandled for sure but Gonzaga is the better team. Especially morally.

wnczagfan
02-22-2014, 10:40 PM
Agreed not all on Pangos, but you can't have it both ways, this was supposed to be his team, Cousy list and all. If you are going to wear the crown you have to act like the king. The turnover at the end of the game where he drove to the middle, jump stopped and punted the ball speaks volumes. The big dog on the team takes a shot or gets to the foul line on that, nothing less. He DS have pretty much the identical line tonight, yet DS played 15 minutes and KP was around 38

Stockton's numbers look better; less turnovers. And he tried to save our ass at the end. Wish he had come in a few minutes earlier....

demian
02-22-2014, 10:41 PM
totally agree SPY. I used to get so angry and miserable after losses. I actually have completely accepted the fact that this is not that good of a team and I came to that determination about 5 minutes left in the first half of the Dayton game this year. it is not a very good team. they actually have done respectable work this year considering what they lost from last season. oh well. still love the zags but not losing sleep over these losses this year.


Me to, before when we lost, I used to get upset and lose sleep, not I've accepted it. We're just not very good this year. I aint even mad.

zagamatic
02-22-2014, 10:42 PM
No need to pile on. NEXT!

demian
02-22-2014, 10:43 PM
agreed


Agreed not all on Pangos, but you can't have it both ways, this was supposed to be his team, Cousy list and all. If you are going to wear the crown you have to act like the king. The turnover at the end of the game where he drove to the middle, jump stopped and punted the ball speaks volumes. The big dog on the team takes a shot or gets to the foul line on that, nothing less. He DS have pretty much the identical line tonight, yet DS played 15 minutes and KP was around 38

VinnyZag
02-22-2014, 10:44 PM
Dower and Karnowski combined were 16-21 from the floor and scored 35 points.

Rest of the team went 11-33 and scored 31 points.

Guard play was not supposed to be this team's problem.

wnczagfan
02-22-2014, 10:45 PM
No need to pile on. NEXT!

The title of the thread is "Let the negativity begin". I thought we were SUPPOSED to pile on.

GeorgiaZagFan
02-22-2014, 10:45 PM
With every negative there must be a positive. Yin and yang. But here as in most places, telling the truth is seen as negative. So our gurad play wasn't the whole issue...

The refs decided this one. Hate to say it but it is true. 33 fould shots for USD and 11 for us. the flopping and cheap plays allowed USD to cheap out a win.

The Zags didn't play their greatest game ..but I agree with you. When the smaller, less athletic team shoots 22 more free throws ...something smells big time! Dower should have had at least 10 FT attempts and PK about the same. They FINALLY called one when they clobbered Sam on the head..and even then the crowd booed as if it was a bad call. The fact that Pangos, Bell, Stockton, and Dranginis shot a total of 2 FT's for the game was atrocious. If they call the game consistent...we shoot about 15 more FT's ...or they shoot about 15 less FT's ..either way it is an easy win for the Zags!! The Zags are now in a bad situation ...I believe they have to win the conference tourney to make the dance ..I just don't see the resume that puts us there without it ...outside chance if we lose in the conference title game ...but I wouldn't want to risk it!!

HOOTER
02-22-2014, 10:45 PM
This team is significantly more talented than this. They're just not being coached very well right now. Not hating on Few, just the way I see it. And yes Oregon, the officiating was lopsided, that's just a fact. It's taboo to even mention officials (or Few for that matter) but it is what it is. This team just seems to be playing very ugly and disorganized right now and ultimately I blame coaching for the under-utilization of talent at their disposal.

EngineerZag
02-22-2014, 10:48 PM
Relax guys. Totally agree with OregonZagNut. We won this game by a long shot in every category except free throws and we had a couple more turnovers. Ridiculous calls on flops down the stretch that greatly affected the outcome. We shot 50% for crying out loud, and held them to 40. Worst road game this year with respect to officiating, hands down. So frustrating to watch.

GeorgiaZagFan
02-22-2014, 10:51 PM
agreed

I partially agree...but I think some of the problems were because what the refs allowed ...on the play that PK picked up his 5th foul ...I believe it was Anderson for SD knocked the ball away..but not after hitting a bunch of Pangos ..should have been a foul the way they were calling it on the other end...he came through the back and into the elbow to make the ball pop loose, never hit the ball, just Pangos ...many other plays like that ...I was disgusted at the number of touch fouls on one end and no-calls on the other....

Zags11
02-22-2014, 10:51 PM
Yea, the officials were bad. Bad. No other way. Our guard play was eh again. Bell awesome in first, nada in second. Pangos was non existent.

demian
02-22-2014, 10:52 PM
I hear you guys about the reffing but it is what it is on the road. I thought the biggest issue to me was the last part of the first half when we allowed San diego to not only keep it close but actually take a two point lead (gotta give them credit for hitting a tough shot at end of first half) into halftime and then come out immediately in second half and get behind by 11 points to start second half. To me that was where we lost. not because of the reffs.


Relax guys. Totally agree with OregonZagNut. We won this game by a long shot in every category except free throws and we had a couple more turnovers. Ridiculous calls on flops down the stretch that greatly affected the outcome. We shot 50% for crying out loud, and held them to 40. Worst road game this year with respect to officiating, hands down. So frustrating to watch.

RenoZag
02-22-2014, 10:53 PM
ESPN BOX SCORE (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400506813)

Zagceo
02-22-2014, 10:57 PM
I feel for the team. They look weak and lost. Maybe it would be a good thing to miss the tourney and get hungry again.

demian
02-22-2014, 10:57 PM
the first thing that jumps out to me in that box score you posted is that of our 11 free throw attempts we only shoot 54%. that's not the reffs fault. that is our own fault. you can only control what you can control and 54% is lousy and loses ball games. 6-11 is our free throw stat. we lose by three points.


ESPN BOX SCORE (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400506813)

HOOTER
02-22-2014, 11:08 PM
I feel for the team. They look weak and lost. Maybe it would be a good thing to miss the tourney and get hungry again.

I agree. They seem to lack leadership and organization right now. Missing the tourney suddenly became a very realistic possibility. Their rate of improvement has slowed (some would say screeched to a halt) in recent years, yet the conference as a whole has been getting better. It is bound to catch up to them eventually, and that might be what we're seeing now.

JPtheBeasta
02-22-2014, 11:15 PM
Guard play sucks. Really all there is to it.

Play the bigger guys. Play Coleman and KD more. Press more. TAKE THE CHIP SHOTS AND LAY-INS AND HIT THEM.

Bell or someone needs to take over the emotional aspect of this team. The bigs played great, as almost always - but we lack a leader on the court, that's what I am seeing.

Pangos needs to be allowed to run this team as a point guard on a more regular basis. The current 3 guard package is looking pretty pedestrian right now.

Reborn
02-22-2014, 11:17 PM
Once again the team that wanted it more got the win. Unfortunately, the Zags weren't willing to play like champions.
I will say again what I said after the loss to BYU, the team chemistry and cohesiveness is the worst that I have ever seen it. And what shows the most is that this team does not display the kind of confidence that past Gonzaga teams have had.

I feel badly for Sam Dower. He laid his guts out there on the court tonight. He needs to have a talk with the team and straighten them out and remind them of what it means to be a Zag. If this team has ever needed a reality check it's right now. Something is wrong with them right now. And Kevin Pangos is not the guy to call the team out. He's as much of the problem as anyone on the team. I am also proud of how Nunez continues to play. There's not much that he can do when Few refuses to play him. I really did enjoy the few minutes that he got on the floor.

exclusivelee
02-22-2014, 11:17 PM
the first thing that jumps out to me in that box score you posted is that of our 11 free throw attempts we only shoot 54%. that's not the reffs fault. that is our own fault. you can only control what you can control and 54% is lousy and loses ball games. 6-11 is our free throw stat. we lose by three points.

Yeah and technically Sam missed 3 foul shots since 1 was a 1-and-1

But cant knock much on the 2 guys who were scoring In the 2nd half (Sam & Shem)

I must have seen Barham pass up 5+ shots. Is he only capable to make a 3 when wide open & cant create a 3 without a pass??

And those turnovers that piled up from Pangos and Bell...

Reborn
02-22-2014, 11:20 PM
definition of insanity = doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Mark Few

demian
02-22-2014, 11:22 PM
good point about the front end of the one and one. I remember that. Barham, I just don't know what to say. i will leave that topic alone.


Yeah and technically Sam missed 3 foul shots since 1 was a 1-and-1

But cant knock much on the 2 guys who were scoring In the 2nd half (Sam & Shem)

I must have seen Barham pass up 5+ shots. Is he only capable to make a 3 when wide open & cant create a 3 without a pass??

And those turnovers that piled up from Pangos and Bell...

demian
02-22-2014, 11:26 PM
Well lets see if one of the most winningest coaches in the history of the game (as far as winning percentages and other BS stats are concerned) can find a way to coach this team into the NCAA tourney. he has a great chance to shut all his critics up over the next two weeks, now go do it. go live up to your reputation. that's all that needs to be said in regards to mark few in my opinion at this time


Mark Few

demian
02-22-2014, 11:31 PM
Nunez has really improved as the season has gone on. Zero confidence and Swagger on this team. i know most people around the country hate Morrison and even a lot of folks in the state of Washington hate him as well. I loved Morrison, my favorite college player i have ever watched for a few reasons 1.) he had supreme confidence and 2.) he had unbelievable swagger.


Once again the team that wanted it more got the win. Unfortunately, the Zags weren't willing to play like champions.
I will say again what I said after the loss to BYU, the team chemistry and cohesiveness is the worst that I have ever seen it. And what shows the most is that this team does not display the kind of confidence that past Gonzaga teams have had.

I feel badly for Sam Dower. He laid his guts out there on the court tonight. He needs to have a talk with the team and straighten them out and remind them of what it means to be a Zag. If this team has ever needed a reality check it's right now. Something is wrong with them right now. And Kevin Pangos is not the guy to call the team out. He's as much of the problem as anyone on the team. I am also proud of how Nunez continues to play. There's not much that he can do when Few refuses to play him. I really did enjoy the few minutes that he got on the floor.

ToreroStudent
02-22-2014, 11:40 PM
Yikes it's bad in here. Keep your heads up. Night is darkest before the dawn. Good game.

ezcure17
02-23-2014, 12:07 AM
WHY????

Anyone else getting tired of the coach's game plan here? Getting VERY sickening to watch if u ask me! Anyone else tired of seeing us get behind from the start, bring in guys off the bench who SHOULD be playing, we take the lead only to have him put the starters back for the end of the half, to give UP the lead, THEN, do it all over again in the 2nd half BUT REFUSING to even play the guys who got u back in the game AT ALL?
This just keeps happening over and over and over! U think he would learn. Play the ones who are performing their best, anyone can see this. But noooooo, gotta have my favorites in there no matter what. How do u think Coleman and Nunez feel right now? What do they have to do to play in the 2 nd half? I wouldn't blame either of them if they bolted after this year. Why would u want to stay? His way or the highway. Think it might be time for a change.
We are being out coached game after game after game. U have to make changes DURING a game, not the day after in the press. Shoulda done this, shoulda done that. And for those who complain about the refs, if coach thinks he's not getting the calls? Then DO something about it! Go out on the floor, yell at a ref for once, get a T, stand UP for your team, instead of giving the refs the ever so SCARY Few stare down. Show your players some respect!! You will start getting the calls but until u do that, good luck!

Oregonzagnut
02-23-2014, 12:23 AM
Yikes it's bad in here. Keep your heads up. Night is darkest before the dawn. Good game.

The game was decided at the FT line. 33 FT's for USD and 11 for Gonzaga. The flopping, drawing cheap fouls and the one sided ticky-tack fouls were obvious. But the flopping caught on camera happened 4 times with more happening the entire game.

We shot 50%, USD shot 40%. Both BYU and USD used a physical, cheap shot style of play that not even Gonzaga uses at our own house. Guess that is what it takes to beat us and I say we fight fire with fire from now on.

MickMick
02-23-2014, 12:32 AM
I have believed since week 1:

Keeping the tournament streak alive is this year's challenge.

Why is anyone surprised?

When Harris and Hart left, you just knew the rebounding would suffer. With that comes a lack of confidence in perimeter shooting. If you miss....the other team gets the ball.

demian
02-23-2014, 12:37 AM
I really enjoyed this post. I agree with alot of what you say



WHY????

Anyone else getting tired of the coach's game plan here? Getting VERY sickening to watch if u ask me! Anyone else tired of seeing us get behind from the start, bring in guys off the bench who SHOULD be playing, we take the lead only to have him put the starters back for the end of the half, to give UP the lead, THEN, do it all over again in the 2nd half BUT REFUSING to even play the guys who got u back in the game AT ALL?
This just keeps happening over and over and over! U think he would learn. Play the ones who are performing their best, anyone can see this. But noooooo, gotta have my favorites in there no matter what. How do u think Coleman and Nunez feel right now? What do they have to do to play in the 2 nd half? I wouldn't blame either of them if they bolted after this year. Why would u want to stay? His way or the highway. Think it might be time for a change.
We are being out coached game after game after game. U have to make changes DURING a game, not the day after in the press. Shoulda done this, shoulda done that. And for those who complain about the refs, if coach thinks he's not getting the calls? Then DO something about it! Go out on the floor, yell at a ref for once, get a T, stand UP for your team, instead of giving the refs the ever so SCARY Few stare down. Show your players some respect!! You will start getting the calls but until u do that, good luck!

demian
02-23-2014, 12:47 AM
Agreed this shouldn't be a surprise. I saw all I needed to see in the Dayton game (when pangos did not have turf toe yet, if I'm not mistaken). Actually since the Dayton game I have been pleasantly surprised that we have done respectable work this season but this is a mediocre team. No the Memphis game did not encourage me that we could "play with anybody". That was a bottom tier of the top 25 poll team that showed me that a team of that caliber can totally out athlete us and out tough us down the stretch of any game



I have believed since week 1:

Keeping the tournament streak alive is this year's challenge.

Why is anyone surprised?

When Harris and Hart left, you just knew the rebounding would suffer. With that comes a lack of confidence in perimeter shooting. If you miss....the other team gets the ball.

jim77
02-23-2014, 12:50 AM
Pangos needs to be allowed to run this team as a point guard on a more regular basis. The current 3 guard package is looking pretty pedestrian right now.

Pangos doesn't need to be on the floor right now....he brings nothing. His injury has killed his timing....he coughed the ball up 3 times in the last 3 minutes. DS and KD with 3 bigs is the ticket. Also, whats with the rebounding...especially in the 1st half....theres NO ZAGS anywhere near the rim. Its time for the coach to anoint NUNEZ the designated rebounder....every shot he goes to the rim Offense/Defense...nowhere else. Also, bag the man defense...the other team is using it to get our guys our of position...and SHEM should NOT be 25 feet from the rim drawing fouls and (NOT) disrupting the other teams offense....Shem is a rim protector...leave it at that.

Oregonzagnut
02-23-2014, 12:55 AM
Pangos doesn't need to be on the floor right now....he brings nothing. His injury has killed his timing....he coughed the ball up 3 times in the last 3 minutes. DS and KD with 3 bigs is the ticket.

I agree but I also respectfully disagree with your starters. I think we should start DS, G. Bell, Dranginis, Dower and Karno.

Let Pangos heal for 2 full weeks till the Tournament. Take the pressure off and come back for the WCC tournament with a chip on his shoulder and a healed body and mind. Few has put way too much on his shoulders all year when Stockton should have been on the bench waiting to come in for Pangos EVERY time.

jim77
02-23-2014, 01:06 AM
Agreed about giving KP rest.....we don't need 3 guards....KD and GBJ can switch off......as Nunez and Edwards can switch off.

caduceus
02-23-2014, 03:55 AM
On Court
Off Court
Player MIN RR +/- + - +/- + -
K. Pangos 34 7 2 62 -60 -5 4 -9 G. Bell 36 1 -1 57 -58 -2 9 -11 D. Stockton 18 -13 -8 34 -42 5 32 -27 P. Karnowski 30 3 0 51 -51 -3 15 -18 S. Dower 34 -5 -4 58 -62 1 8 -7 G. Coleman 4 -5 -4 6 -10 1 60 -59 A. Nunez 8 -11 -7 7 -14 4 59 -55 K. Dranginis 21 1 -1 33 -34 -2 33 -35 R. Edwards 2 -1 -2 0 -2 -1 66 -67 D. Barham 13 23 10 19 -9 -13 47 -60


+ = Team points scored while on court
- = Opponent points allowed while on court
+/- = Team points scored minus Opp points allowed
Off Court = Team points scored/allowed while off court
RR (Roland Rating) = On Court +/- minus Off Court +/-

kclubfounder
02-23-2014, 04:58 AM
On Court
Off Court
Player MIN RR +/- + - +/- + -
K. Pangos 34 7 2 62 -60 -5 4 -9 G. Bell 36 1 -1 57 -58 -2 9 -11 D. Stockton 18 -13 -8 34 -42 5 32 -27 P. Karnowski 30 3 0 51 -51 -3 15 -18 S. Dower 34 -5 -4 58 -62 1 8 -7 G. Coleman 4 -5 -4 6 -10 1 60 -59 A. Nunez 8 -11 -7 7 -14 4 59 -55 K. Dranginis 21 1 -1 33 -34 -2 33 -35 R. Edwards 2 -1 -2 0 -2 -1 66 -67 D. Barham 13 23 10 19 -9 -13 47 -60


+ = Team points scored while on court
- = Opponent points allowed while on court
+/- = Team points scored minus Opp points allowed
Off Court = Team points scored/allowed while off court
RR (Roland Rating) = On Court +/- minus Off Court +/-

I think the RR is fascinating over the course of a season, but not very meaningful in the snapshot of one game.

Vanzagger
02-23-2014, 04:59 AM
Stockton's numbers look better; less turnovers. And he tried to save our ass at the end. Wish he had come in a few minutes earlier....

No disrespect but when we were down early Stockton came out and we built a lead. He came back in we go down 11. He sits we cut it to 4 or less.

He did get a couple garbage buckets at the end. I wonder if he passed anyone on the GU chart


There is no room to get cute anymore.

kclubfounder
02-23-2014, 05:03 AM
Agreed not all on Pangos, but you can't have it both ways, this was supposed to be his team, Cousy list and all. If you are going to wear the crown you have to act like the king. The turnover at the end of the game where he drove to the middle, jump stopped and punted the ball speaks volumes. The big dog on the team takes a shot or gets to the foul line on that, nothing less. He DS have pretty much the identical line tonight, yet DS played 15 minutes and KP was around 38

Yep. With a pedestrian KP we were bound to have a disappointing year. I blame the turf toe.

Vanzagger
02-23-2014, 05:07 AM
Why does Pangos have to play whole 2nd half. Give the kid a couple minute break and then surround him with our best players for crunch time

Hokis
02-23-2014, 06:22 AM
Zag fans always have excuses


The refs didn't win the game for SD, SD won the game, end of discussion.


Makes no sense to cry about officiating like the Zags have never benefited from bad officiating

gobroncsgozags
02-23-2014, 06:26 AM
Great post. Few's failings a very evident this year when there isn't a leader on this team. Hopefully he will figure things out because he looks mediocre, at best, this year.

There is no reason to lose to the Portlands and San Diegos. The Zags are so much more talented than these teams it should be an easy win.

As a side, I lost a lot of respect for Grier coaching his cheap, flopping game plan.


WHY????

Anyone else getting tired of the coach's game plan here? Getting VERY sickening to watch if u ask me! Anyone else tired of seeing us get behind from the start, bring in guys off the bench who SHOULD be playing, we take the lead only to have him put the starters back for the end of the half, to give UP the lead, THEN, do it all over again in the 2nd half BUT REFUSING to even play the guys who got u back in the game AT ALL?
This just keeps happening over and over and over! U think he would learn. Play the ones who are performing their best, anyone can see this. But noooooo, gotta have my favorites in there no matter what. How do u think Coleman and Nunez feel right now? What do they have to do to play in the 2 nd half? I wouldn't blame either of them if they bolted after this year. Why would u want to stay? His way or the highway. Think it might be time for a change.
We are being out coached game after game after game. U have to make changes DURING a game, not the day after in the press. Shoulda done this, shoulda done that. And for those who complain about the refs, if coach thinks he's not getting the calls? Then DO something about it! Go out on the floor, yell at a ref for once, get a T, stand UP for your team, instead of giving the refs the ever so SCARY Few stare down. Show your players some respect!! You will start getting the calls but until u do that, good luck!

Tom117
02-23-2014, 07:07 AM
I have posted here before - twice, I think, in the last three or four years. But, I do make it a point to read the comments on a daily basis, though. I guess that makes me a lurker. I'm in my 60's and retired and I get too sleepy to stay up for these late games. I didn't watch the BYU or SD game, but I read all about it on different sites. My thought is that we have seen the team out-hustled before. Just when our expectations were at the highest at the NCAA last year against Southern and then Wichita State, the team comes onto the floor like their shoes have glue on them. They don't react to the pick-and-pop on the perimeter, they are slow to jump on those 50-50 balls, and no one is playing much offense except Kelly Olynyck. They struggled to beat Southern, a team they should have rolled over big time, then lost to Wichita State, a team that maybe they didn't scout well enough.

My point is, if they are going into a slump, I would much rather see it now than at the tourney in Las Vegas. I mean, it is what it is. They are slumping right now on the road. But, being optimistic, if their motivation is low right now then they have a chance to find out what they are made of, and hopefully, peak at tourney time.

amaronizag
02-23-2014, 07:32 AM
Yes the ref's made a few bad calls, but our biggest problem last night was defense. When their players blow past our players, we either foul to stop the easy basket or rely on bigs in the paint to cover for the poor perimeter play. When our bigs are carrying the team offensively, we don't need them on the bench in foul trouble because the back court isn't carrying its weight on defense. A lot of the poor perimeter play resulted from poor defensive assignments and bad player matchups. Our players seemed to be mismatched all night. We just looked tired, slow, out of sync, and they kept making plays while we kept booting plays. We finally put up more shots than somebody, but that offense just doesn't generate enough shots or points to go anywhere in March. It's usually good enough to win the WCC, but you can't go anywhere scoring 70 points or less in March when playing the best offenses in the nation. Our slow, half court style of play and long possessions have earned us a 230+ in the nation rating for pace of play and that just doesn't stack up well in March. Until we solve that lingering problem, and those limitations put on our players by the system, our seasons are never going to end much differently.

northsidezagfan
02-23-2014, 07:44 AM
I think the RR is fascinating over the course of a season, but not very meaningful in the snapshot of one game.

Wonder why you pick this game to point that out....

kclubfounder
02-23-2014, 07:49 AM
Wonder why you pick this game to point that out....

Has the RR been used to try to shed light on an individual game before? If so I didn't notice it.

Ezag
02-23-2014, 07:53 AM
I have posted here before - twice, I think, in the last three or four years. But, I do make it a point to read the comments on a daily basis, though. I guess that makes me a lurker. I'm in my 60's and retired and I get too sleepy to stay up for these late games. I didn't watch the BYU or SD game, but I read all about it on different sites. My thought is that we have seen the team out-hustled before. Just when our expectations were at the highest at the NCAA last year against Southern and then Wichita State, the team comes onto the floor like their shoes have glue on them. They don't react to the pick-and-pop on the perimeter, they are slow to jump on those 50-50 balls, and no one is playing much offense except Kelly Olynyck. They struggled to beat Southern, a team they should have rolled over big time, then lost to Wichita State, a team that maybe they didn't scout well enough.

My point is, if they are going into a slump, I would much rather see it now than at the tourney in Las Vegas. I mean, it is what it is. They are slumping right now on the road. But, being optimistic, if their motivation is low right now then they have a chance to find out what they are made of, and hopefully, peak at tourney time.

Good points. I will add that we have not really improved much overall since Maui. We have no one that can create his own shot and just score when we really need it. Kevin has gotten worse with his road toe, Bell is stagnant, Karno has improved as expected, Dower is real only reliable scorer, Coleman we had high hopes for but gets Zero playing time, Angel has done nothing and can't get off the Bench, Barham started out great and now can't buy a bucket, DS is hot and cold, KD is solid but has limited offense, no real idea on Edwards since he gets zero playing time also but looks promising. We have 2 of the most athletic guys in the WCC in Nunez and Coleman, both transfers yet get no playing time even against athletic teams, go figure.

wnczagfan
02-23-2014, 08:03 AM
The Roland Ratings seem like they can sometimes "reward" a player for just being on the floor when others are doing well. I was, for instance, surprised to see Pangos with a positive Roland rating when he went 0 for 2 from the three point line, had 3 turnovers, and shot 25% from the field. Not picking on him, just using him as an example. Over the course of the season, maybe the RR is meaningful. Looking at this one game, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

In general, even though we lost to Memphis, I felt like our team played well for most of that game; these last two games, other than Sam Dower, we look lost. We don't shoot the ball well, when we shoot at all. Seriously, two 3 point attempts for Pangos? Either USD is a lock-down defensive team, or we are doing something wrong.

I am not one that gets down on the team when things aren't going well; I like this team and these players, and have seen some great performances from them in tough games.

Have the other teams finally got our number? Maybe.

But what I really think is that we are not doing the same things we have been doing earlier in the year that made us successful. I have seen Pangos and Bell pass up open shots to give it to Stockton in a game of hot potato, with Stockton ending up taking the shot as the clock winds down. At least he has the guts and the clock awareness to shoot it, but our players in general look like they are generally scared to shoot the basketball. What's with that?

I have not been one that believed that we should change our lineup, but at this point, if I were the coach, we would be getting a healthy dose of Nunez and Coleman. What we are doing is not working, and it is time for some changes. Not necessarily permanently, but we cannot keep doing what we are doing and win any games. If some of our players are having off games, bench them temporarily and give some others a chance to play. We have nothing to lose.

DixieZag
02-23-2014, 08:07 AM
Not much new to say at this point but it is an outlet.

Pangos? Has to be at least 50% psych now. He played very well at home last 2 home games, and a huge detriment on the road. He needs to sit, he's actually hurting us now.

Our defense really let us down last night. (see 3 guard line up).

BYU and others have figured us out, take the three pt line and let us try to win on Karno/Sam alone, they both had monster games last night and it's not enough, that's how bad our guard play (supposed to be our strength) was last night.

If a team has taken the guard play away then it is obvious that Coleman and Nunez would help. I would not blame either of them for leaving but neither will b/c they'd have to sit out yet another year. It is getting embarrassing that we have that quality of people that sit so much. They make mistakes, but the way to learn is to make them play through them.

Last, a lot of this year is on Few. We should never have the three small guards in there all at once, hurts defensively, hurts rebounding, it's redundant - right now sitting any one of the three in favor of KD, GC or AN is just refusal to adjust which looks like refusal to admit he was wrong. Plus, I feel (I know this is controversial) that guys are terrified to miss shots b/c of the hook.

Few has a style. It has given us a ton of success in some situations (playing Hart initially and then going back) but this year it is just killing us (IMO and I know what it's worth.)

bartruff1
02-23-2014, 08:13 AM
Agreed not all on Pangos, but you can't have it both ways, this was supposed to be his team, Cousy list and all. If you are going to wear the crown you have to act like the king. The turnover at the end of the game where he drove to the middle, jump stopped and punted the ball speaks volumes. The big dog on the team takes a shot or gets to the foul line on that, nothing less. He DS have pretty much the identical line tonight, yet DS played 15 minutes and KP was around 38

I am no coach or expert...but Kevin has not been effective since the BYU game.... maybe he is in love or has gas...but without his offense, it will be tough to win.

For those of us who want a better WCC this is good for the Conference....SD is a huge media market and it has made the investments in the program ... hopefully, real competition will make Gonzaga a better team.... the next two games are not gimmies ...sooo this will be something to see all through the WCC Tourney.

Gonzaga still has control over it's season.

northsidezagfan
02-23-2014, 08:17 AM
Has the RR been used to try to shed light on an individual game before? If so I didn't notice it.

I know that, everyone knows that. It just seems fitting that you have to remind everyone of that fact when DS's is the worst. JUST IN CASE anyone get the wrong impression about him!
Nice to se you around by the way, usually we only see you after DS plays a decent game so you can rub it in the "haters' " faces.

demian
02-23-2014, 08:17 AM
agree on all points Dixie


Not much new to say at this point but it is an outlet.

Pangos? Has to be at least 50% psych now. He played very well at home last 2 home games, and a huge detriment on the road. He needs to sit, he's actually hurting us now.

Our defense really let us down last night. (see 3 guard line up).

BYU and others have figured us out, take the three pt line and let us try to win on Karno/Sam alone, they both had monster games last night and it's not enough, that's how bad our guard play (supposed to be our strength) was last night.

If a team has taken the guard play away then it is obvious that Coleman and Nunez would help. I would not blame either of them for leaving but neither will b/c they'd have to sit out yet another year. It is getting embarrassing that we have that quality of people that sit so much. They make mistakes, but the way to learn is to make them play through them.

Last, a lot of this year is on Few. We should never have the three small guards in there all at once, hurts defensively, hurts rebounding, it's redundant - right now sitting any one of the three in favor of KD, GC or AN is just refusal to adjust which looks like refusal to admit he was wrong. Plus, I feel (I know this is controversial) that guys are terrified to miss shots b/c of the hook.

Few has a style. It has given us a ton of success in some situations (playing Hart initially and then going back) but this year it is just killing us (IMO and I know what it's worth.)

northsidezagfan
02-23-2014, 08:19 AM
I am no coach or expert...but Kevin has not been effective since the BYU game.... maybe he is in love or has gas...but without his offense, it will be tough to win.


Gotta believe he is still hurt. May not be the whole story but he isn't healthy. Really hurts a guy who wasn't overly quick (but pretty quick) to begin with.

john montana
02-23-2014, 08:31 AM
We stunk it up offensively, but what I didn't understand is why didn't we throw the zone at them? They were absolutely murdering use with pick and rolls, and with Dee running off 4 screens and curling. Zone em! Take that stuff away. We played zone for ONE possession, and they hit a prayer of a three from 26 feet with our guy in his face (that number 10 guy hit it). Their bigs are way more mobile than ours and were killing us on the hedge...I think we should have zoned a bit.

Ugly game...the flopping was ridiculous, but that loss is on us. We stunk it up. KP and DS were awful...KD had his worst game all year as well. Just a total stinker from our guards.

webspinnre
02-23-2014, 08:34 AM
Of course negativity is coming, we've played two terrible games in a row, and we're watching our seed decline before our very eyes. What exactly should we be positive about?

JPtheBeasta
02-23-2014, 08:44 AM
Of course negativity is coming, we've played two terrible games in a row, and we're watching our seed decline before our very eyes. What exactly should we be positive about?

I woke up breathing today- that's where I'm starting :) This one hurt more than the others, possibly because it is two in a row and we look like a rudderless ship. Basketball is, as they say around here, the candy store of life. But right now all I can find is the root beer flavored Tootsie Pops.

demian
02-23-2014, 08:49 AM
oh for sure webspinnre negativity is coming. I wasn't starting this thread as sarcasm about being negative. I am sorry if I miscommunicated that. I actually felt like last night was a perfect point to let the negativity flow. I wanted to be negative last night and I am sure others did too. I felt it would be real phony to act like there was anything positive to find last night after the game. I found nothing positive from this week in terms of Gonzaga Mens Basketball. Thank The Good Lord above tho that we are all alive today and have a new week ahead of us.


Of course negativity is coming, we've played two terrible games in a row, and we're watching our seed decline before our very eyes. What exactly should we be positive about?

gonwick
02-23-2014, 08:49 AM
Silly question...has few changed the offense/defense at all since Grier left?

Vegas will be fun, as we likely will see usd or Portland in our opener.

Few needs to learn to adapt. His refusal to change his starting lineups in either half beggars belief.

The three guard lineup, not surprisingly, is biting the team in the ass. Underdeveloped wings, underperforming guards. If only that could have been anticipated...


Coleman won't transfer, but I wonder about Nunez.

Did you ever think that usd would have more athletic players? That series of dunks was embarrassing.

I hope PK doesn't play in Poland this summer.

I hope there is a mystery big who comes out of nowhere, because kW and three guards aren't going to help this rebounding much. Maybe sabonis, but a lot to expect from a theoretical freshman.

Speaking of next year, Maybe few ran the three guard offense to show Perkins that he will be able to get playing time. That's about the only reason I could think of.

Would you rather:
Have gu squeak into the tourney, get beat in the first game.
Have gu make a deep nit run, have few decide some things need to change, and see actual change in the program?

I'm torn, mostly because I'm not sure that gu could make a deep nit run, nor do I think that few will change.

demian
02-23-2014, 08:55 AM
Yeah very I agree USD did seem more athletic than us last night.


Silly question...has few changed the offense at all since Grier left?

Vegas will be fun, as we likely will see usd or Portland in our opener.

Few needs to learn to adapt. His refusal to change his starting lineups in either half beggars belief.

The three guard lineup, not surprisingly, is biting the team in the ass. Underdeveloped wings, underperforming guards. If only that could have been anticipated...


Coleman won't transfer, but I wonder about Nunez.

Did you ever think that use would have more athletic players? That series of dunks was embarrassing.

I hope PK doesn't play in Poland this summer.

I hope there is a mystery big who comes out of nowhere, because kW and three guards aren't going to help this rebounding much. Maybe sabonis, but a lot to expect from a theoretical freshman.

Speaking of next year, Maybe few ran the three guard offense to show Perkins that he will be able to get playing time. That's about the only reason I could think of.

Would you rather:
Have gu squeak into the tourney, get beat in the first game.
Have gu make a deep nit run, have few decide some things need to change, and see actual change in the program?

I'm torn, mostly because I'm not sure that gu could make a deep nit run, nor do I think that few will change.

Zagceo
02-23-2014, 09:05 AM
I believe DS statement after the collapse at Memphis when he said, "sometimes we seem to be playing not to lose" could also be used to explain how this team is approaching this WCC championship.
Coach Few seems confused and gets mixed signals from his player rotations. He wants the security of his 3 guards but last night he went away from that in the 2nd half and didn't get the results and ends up putting DS in at the end and to his credit DS was the only one that took it to the rim looking for the and 1 and also made a 3. I give DS credit for effort and playing tough to the end. I mean DS had a tough game up to that point but he had no quit. Dower fought hard workman like performance. GB played tough defense especially the 2nd half but at the expense of his offense. The real problem was exposed last night especially in crunch time when KP had the point and looked like a weak confused freshmen turning the ball over and getting out of position on defense. Coach needs be honest and sit KP down for the benefit of both the team and KP. He is not the player he once was for whatever reason.

This team needs to play more aggressive on offense and do it with a no fear "looseness"! The attitude that Pete Carroll uses with his Seahawk team.

The pressure is definitely getting to this team especially on the road. It could be the tourney streak or just the fear of losing but this team looks lost and confused and I am really excited to see how this team reacts to this adversity.

gonwick
02-23-2014, 09:08 AM
Nice work, demian, you not only made it through my overly long frustration download, you managed to read past my typo.

TacomaZAG
02-23-2014, 09:09 AM
C'mon you guys, blaming the officiating is the refuge of the weak. No one ever complains about the absolute home cooking we get at the Kennel every game, but somehow it's a crime when the shoe is on the other foot. Maybe we should dig a little deeper and see WHY USD shot so many more FT's than we did. Our 3 starting guards shot 0 FT's last night, that's right, 0. IMHO it is because they are not driving to the rim, not being aggressive. Add in KD and the guard total for guys playing any kind of minutes goes all the way up to 2. Not going to get fouled shooting 3's or passing it around the perimeter. No surprise, the guard on the team who shot the most FT's last night was GC, with 4 FT's in 4 minutes. Maybe that's because he's aggressive and gets to the rim, although it's really hard to get to the rim from the bench. The 2 USD starting guards shot 8 FT's and made 5, quite possibly the difference in the game is contained in that single stat. Add in the USD reserve guards who played any kind of minutes and the FT totals go up to 14. That's 14 FT's vs. 2 for the guards who played any kind of minutes. As someone stated in a thread after the BYU game, when was the last time either GBJ or DS went to the stripe??

Also, we once again kicked the ball around to the tune of 13 TO's, to USD's 8. Another possible game loser........

Finally, once again KP played 34 minutes and only got 8 shots, including 2 from behind the arc. We are not going to beat anyone when KP is that limited in his shooting. What I wouldn't give to see a single play run for KP the way USD runs almost every play for Johnny Dee, running him off up to 4 screens on a single possesion to get him a shot.

Maybe all that is the fault of the officials too....................

It's time to rest KP until the WCC Tourney, IMHO. We have locked up at least a share of the WCC regular season crown with 2 games remaining and will need him at his best (given the injuries, etc.) for the tourney, as the WCC is a 1-bid league this year, maybe a 2-bid league if we get to the WCC Tourney final and lose a close one. For those of you who scoff at the above sentence, take a look at the ZAG resume as shown last night on ESPN, especially the "quality wins" portion. We only have one entry in that column and it is the BYU win at the Kennel. Seriously, are we going to hang our hat on that win as evidence that we belong in the "at-large" discussion for a NCAA Tourney berth??? Also, our SOS was 101 last night, not going to help our "at-large" case. Our RPI is pretty good, although I'm not sure how given the schedule and the lack of ANY signature wins.

IMHO, if we lose either of the remaining two games in conference play, we have to win the WCC Tourney to keep the streak alive, and may have to win it even if we win both of the remaining conference games. The conference championship is locked up, rest who we need to rest to have the best chance of winning the WCC Tourney and getting to the Dance.

Go ZAGS

demian
02-23-2014, 09:11 AM
haha I knew what "USE" meant lol


Nice work, demian, you not only made it through my overly long frustration download, you managed to read past my typo.

demian
02-23-2014, 09:13 AM
great post


C'mon you guys, blaming the officiating is the refuge of the weak. No one ever complains about the absolute home cooking we get at the Kennel every game, but somehow it's a crime when the shoe is on the other foot. Maybe we should dig a little deeper and see WHY USD shot so many more FT's than we did. Our 3 starting guards shot 0 FT's last night, that's right, 0. IMHO it is because they are not driving to the rim, not being aggressive. Add in KD and the guard total for guys playing any kind of minutes goes all the way up to 2. Not going to get fouled shooting 3's or passing it around the perimeter. No surprise, the guard on the team who shot the most FT's last night was GC, with 4 FT's in 4 minutes. Maybe that's because he's aggressive and gets to the rim, although it's really hard to get to the rim from the bench. The 2 USD starting guards shot 8 FT's and made 5, quite possibly the difference in the game is contained in that single stat. Add in the USD reserve guards who played any kind of minutes and the FT totals go up to 14. That's 14 FT's vs. 2 for the guards who played any kind of minutes. As someone stated in a thread after the BYU game, when was the last time either GBJ or DS went to the stripe??

Also, we once again kicked the ball around to the tune of 13 TO's, to USD's 8. Another possible game loser........

Finally, once again KP played 34 minutes and only got 8 shots, including 2 from behind the arc. We are not going to beat anyone when KP is that limited in his shooting. What I wouldn't give to see a single play run for KP the way USD runs almost every play for Johnny Dee, running him off up to 4 screens on a single possesion to get him a shot.

Maybe all that is the fault of the officials too....................

It's time to rest KP until the WCC Tourney, IMHO. We have locked up at least a share of the WCC regular season crown with 2 games remaining and will need him at his best (given the injuries, etc.) for the tourney, as the WCC is a 1-bid league this year, maybe a 2-bid league if we get to the WCC Tourney final and lose a close one. For those of you who scoff at the above sentence, take a look at the ZAG resume as shown last night on ESPN, especially the "quality wins" portion. We only have one entry in that column and it is the BYU win at the Kennel. Seriously, are we going to hang our hat on that win as evidence that we belong in the "at-large" discussion for a NCAA Tourney berth??? Also, our SOS was 101 last night, not going to help our "at-large" case. Our RPI is pretty good, although I'm not sure how given the schedule and the lack of ANY signature wins.

IMHO, if we lose either of the remaining two games in conference play, we have to win the WCC Tourney to keep the streak alive, and may have to win it even if we win both of the remaining conference games. The conference championship is locked up, rest who we need to rest to have the best chance of winning the WCC Tourney and getting to the Dance.

Go ZAGS

wnczagfan
02-23-2014, 09:14 AM
Thanks for this timely thread. For some reason, I am feeling MUCH better now, and am ready to move along. Beat Pacific!

Vanzagger
02-23-2014, 09:16 AM
When David took it to the rim that was the equivalent to a prevent defense. You see that play at the end of every game. Now who knew San Diego was going to miss those free throws to give us on last gasp of air.

Zagceo
02-23-2014, 09:19 AM
When David took it to the rim that was the equivalent to a prevent defense. You see that play at the end of every game. Now who knew San Diego was going to miss those free throws to give us on last gasp of air.

Didn't see KP take it to the rim or GB.

webspinnre
02-23-2014, 09:26 AM
oh for sure webspinnre negativity is coming. I wasn't starting this thread as sarcasm about being negative. I am sorry if I miscommunicated that. I actually felt like last night was a perfect point to let the negativity flow. I wanted to be negative last night and I am sure others did too. I felt it would be real phony to act like there was anything positive to find last night after the game. I found nothing positive from this week in terms of Gonzaga Mens Basketball. Thank The Good Lord above tho that we are all alive today and have a new week ahead of us.

fair enough. Plenty to be positive about apart from GU basketball.

Vanzagger
02-23-2014, 09:29 AM
KP did it vs the Cougs when it counted the most. No # 1 seed last year without that shot. Now Stock vs Butler may have earned us a Pitt/Wichita st winner. I'm surprised your not sticking up for Meech

Garbage time stats vs lesser competition should define a player

Saxon_zag
02-23-2014, 09:30 AM
tough loss. not a real surprise tho. Better bounce back next week. Get it out of our system over next 24 hours. Better win conference tourney if have hopes of getting into the big dance

Lol why the hell would you not be negative about this team right now?? They stink compared to nearly every other gu team the last 10 + years outside of that year Pargo was a head case and we lost a bunch in that stretch including against Portland state @ home. Seriously team is playing the worst that I can remember since that point

demian
02-23-2014, 09:32 AM
For sure webspinnre

primal23
02-23-2014, 10:05 AM
Lol why the hell would you not be negative about this team right now?? They stink compared to nearly every other gu team the last 10 + years outside of that year Pargo was a head case and we lost a bunch in that stretch including against Portland state @ home. Seriously team is playing the worst that I can remember since that point

This, and from my non coaching view point, Few is doing nothing but playing his comfort players to death. I think he is setting the stage for two more open scholarships at the end of the year. Of course since I don't have a coaching background with an 80% win percentage I can't have an opinion according to some.
But then opinions are like ........ Everyone has one and they all stink.

Baseline
02-23-2014, 10:12 AM
Right now we have one of the worst outside shooting teams in the country. Every team recognizes we can't shoot on the road and has adjusted accordingly. Everyone is collapsing on our bigs where there effectiveness is being lost. Shem or Sam get the ball and there are two if not three guys on them. Pass it back out, not a problem, they wont take the shot or if they do they won;'t make it.

I have never seen a shooting collapse like what GU is experiencing. None of the guards would be playing if I was coach, I would have the walk-ons playing if that's what it took to get an outside game going.

What is so serious about the problem is we have the same guards coming back next year to repeat this years problem. Maybe the new guys can take over the shooting problem, but my guess they won't be given a chance as Few will be riding Bell and Pangos to the end, they will be seniors you know.

KW is a good shooter, but him replacing dower won't fix the problem, dower is shooting pretty good, but if they can't get the ball inside of they collapse 3 guys on you their isn't much hope of a good outcome.

Whoever said this was a good outside shooting team sure was wrong.

kclubfounder
02-23-2014, 10:21 AM
I know that, everyone knows that. It just seems fitting that you have to remind everyone of that fact when DS's is the worst. JUST IN CASE anyone get the wrong impression about him!
Nice to se you around by the way, usually we only see you after DS plays a decent game so you can rub it in the "haters' " faces.

If "everyone knows that", why was it posted? It seems to me that everyone doesn't know it. But hey, you seem pretty smart so maybe you are right.

vandalzag
02-23-2014, 10:25 AM
KP did it vs the Cougs when it counted the most. No # 1 seed last year without that shot. Now Stock vs Butler may have earned us a Pitt/Wichita st winner. I'm surprised your not sticking up for Meech

Garbage time stats vs lesser competition should define a player

A layup cutting the lead to 3 with 30 seconds left is garbage time? A 3 pt shot cutting the lead to 1 is garbage time? Garbage time is when one team does not have a chance to win (give the nod to the 3 pt shot but hard to call it garbage when the shot put the zags in position for the miracle win). So basically because you do not like DS since he is short and has the last name of Stockton you dismiss anything that he does. 18 minutes with 5 pts and 5 assists, KP and KD combined for 55 minutes on the floor and amassed the same assists and 4 more points than DS, and turned it over 3 times, but they did combine for 2 rebounds to DS 1. The guard play was bad, but the bad was around KP, GB, KD, DB. The amassed over 50% of the minutes last night and scored a total of 20 points, while turning the ball over 7 times.
KP should be the PG leading this team but he is not up to the task. You bring up KP's WSU game and Meech, well Meech hit a game winner as well so him and KP have that in common. Toe or not he is out there for the majority of the game. Winners will their teams to victory, Pangos' jump stop in the lane and the giving the ball up to San Diego with a minute left down 5 pretty much summed up KP's effort all night. I am not saying DS is going to take this team to the final 4, but right now Pangos is not taking the team anywhere. Something has to change. If Few is being to rigid,loyal, etc... it is to KP.

wnczagfan
02-23-2014, 12:03 PM
Didn't see KP take it to the rim or GB.

+1

Not harping on KP or GB, but Stockton was trying to win that game, and knew what to do. After watching us fumble around so long, I was happy someone looked like they knew what they were doing.

Tom117
02-23-2014, 01:22 PM
It looks to me like the rest of the league has caught up to the level at which Gonzaga usually plays. We haven't gone down so much as they have risen to meet us in several categories, including the intangibles. Our team has not advanced their level of play at the same rate. When other teams who are normally many points lower on the field goal percentage and three point percentage start out shooting us, then the team needs to hit the gym and work on creating shot opportunities.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-23-2014, 01:29 PM
+1 Too bad Grier feels the need to coach his team like that. If the refs are eating it up though...

Smart teams and coaches adjust their playing style to fit the game that the officials are calling.

BeachZag
02-23-2014, 01:38 PM
Not so "sold" on Coleman, unfortunately he gives up about as much as he gives. Witness the blown coverage on the in bounds toward the end of the game - Dee should have never been that open. I do agree that USD won with defense - defense wins games. We do like the toughness.
Its not all Pangos, but we won't win many games if he has an off night, and he has had alot of them lately, also some pretty bad turnovers tonight. We lack toughness and grit. We are trending down at the wrong time and still have 2 very tough road games. I want to see the fire that we use to have, and that will to win. We need to win our next 2 road games. I am starting to feel we need a WCC tourney win regardless of how the conference shakes out, just dissapointing.

I want to see a different looking lineup, might as well. More KD/Coleman/Nunez and even Edwards.

izzjess
02-23-2014, 01:39 PM
It looks to me like the rest of the league has caught up to the level at which Gonzaga usually plays. We haven't gone down so much as they have risen to meet us in several categories, including the intangibles. Our team has not advanced their level of play at the same rate. When other teams who are normally many points lower on the field goal percentage and three point percentage start out shooting us, then the team needs to hit the gym and work on creating shot opportunities.

NO. We are definitely down.
and as far as wcc doing better? Well the records would disagree.

vandalzag
02-23-2014, 01:53 PM
Smart teams and coaches adjust their playing style to fit the game that the officials are calling.

It is easy to adjust when you shoot 13 more free throws than you average per game and you make 12 more than your opponent attempts, while jacking up 22 3pt shots. In a a blow out game the refs have zero impact. In a 6 pt game, those stats tell a different story. Our bigs dominated yet only shot 5 FT's, hard to adjust when the one team gets every call and the other gets zero. GU shot 5 below their avg for 3pt shots, so it was not like they were standing up hoisting 3's and not taking the ball inside. Not blaming on the refs but I would bet the stats play out that if you shoot less FT's than the other team makes you are going to to lose.

gobroncsgozags
02-23-2014, 03:19 PM
Smart teams and coaches adjust their playing style to fit the game that the officials are calling.

No doubt. I still don't have to like flopping in any game. It is cheap and I am disappointed that Grier coached his team to do it. The refs rewarded them so it worked, I guess. I would much rather win straight up but he knew what his best chance would be.

webspinnre
02-23-2014, 03:47 PM
and as far as wcc doing better? Well the records would disagree.

The bottom of the WCC is stronger than it has ever been, which is why the overall conference RPI is higher, even if the top of the conference might not be quite as strong.

TacomaZAG
02-23-2014, 05:44 PM
The bottom of the WCC is stronger than it has ever been, which is why the overall conference RPI is higher, even if the top of the conference might not be quite as strong.

If the WCC is stronger this year as a conference, and I'm not sure it is, it is because the bottom feeders in the conference have gotten marginally better. By marginally better I mean all the way up to 150+ RPI teams from 200+ RPI teams. The middle third is about the same, and the upper third is not as good as usual. Maybe that makes the overall conference better, maybe not. It sure doesn't help the ZAGS this year that BYU and SMC are no longer good wins......

Go ZAGS

Oregonzagnut
02-23-2014, 07:46 PM
As per the OP, the negativity began, if I remember correctly, after losing to UConn in the Elite 8. It has been a roller coaster of positive and negative ever since.

SWZag
02-24-2014, 06:53 AM
It looks to me like the rest of the league has caught up to the level at which Gonzaga usually plays. We haven't gone down so much as they have risen to meet us in several categories, including the intangibles. Our team has not advanced their level of play at the same rate. When other teams who are normally many points lower on the field goal percentage and three point percentage start out shooting us, then the team needs to hit the gym and work on creating shot opportunities.

Agreed.

Zag79
02-26-2014, 01:19 AM
WE shot 50% from field and 46% from 3. We made 6 FT's

USD shot 40% from field and 36% from 3. USD made 23 FT's

Sickening ref job IMO. Our guards got manhandled for sure but Gonzaga is the better team. Especially morally.

This. It's impossible to spin it on the players as much as some here might like to do, considering we outplayed them in many of the most important phases of the game. If you told me we were going to start the game 17 free throws behind, I would say don't play it because it's 99% likely to be an L. Why are you surprised? Sure some of our guys had tough games, but so did there guys.

Sam was the best player on the court, that's gotta count for something. The BYU loss was to be expected, a hostile court where it's tough to win against a team against the wall. We actually played pretty good this game. Out shot and out rebounded them, usually that wins you a game... Unless the FT disparity is too large to overcome. Unfortunately it was at San Diego, and I rarely discuss the officials if it all. Buckle up and beat Pacific, keep grinding our way into the dance and make a run.