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View Full Version : Coach Rose changes starting lineup 3X vs GU.



raise the zag
02-22-2014, 06:44 AM
I congratulate Coach Rose for thinking outside the box. He altered his starting lineup to MATCH UP best vs their opponent i.e. us. He inserted two new starters vs GU.

He again changed his primary lineup to start the 2nd half, AND in the final closing minutes to shut us down.

Obviously, the changes worked and worked well. Whatever it takes to win, right? Or in our case, maybe not so much.

It is the ONE area I wished Coach Few would consider changing yet never will. No matter the opponent, the scenario, what is working, or not working, or even to close out a game.

Coach Few will start the same starters every. single. game. In addition, the same players, even when they've literally been terrible, will start the 2nd half and again close out the game. When its clearly not working. Just watch how well this conservative ideology or inability to adjust worked against Memphis and BYU as of late.

I won't get into listing players and who should or shouldn't start; or who played well or didn't play well vs quality opponents, yet I will tell you its NOT working. That honestly goes without saying.

Point is, Coach Rose, for the betterment of his team and to give his team the best chance to win, made ADJUSTMENTS. At the expense of offending others, at the expense of his pride, at the expense of his trust for certain players, at the expense of letting go, at the expense of failing, and it worked.

Meanwhile, even when it wasn't working, we were still predictable Gonzaga and ineffective lineups to START the game, START the 2nd half, and CLOSE out the game. Interestingly, those same 5 players Coach Few went with caused a 10-pt deficit to begin the game, stagnated to start the 2nd half, and barely scored a bucket in the final few minutes.

I'm not kidding, yet the exact SAME sentence can be said/used vs Memphis, except instead of a "10 pt deficit" to begin the game, it was a "9 pt deficit". Same occurrence.

Wow.

Unbelievable.

Insanity.

Surreal?

There is nothing we can do but watch this continue against any real opponent. When Gonzaga has subbed one or two players in games they've lost, they have come back, tied the game, taken leads, defending at a high level, chance to win or even bury the opponent, then suddenly -- without reason -- back to the same starting, inefficient, nor effective lineups.

Again, I sincerely congratulate Coach Rose for doing something Coach Few would never do....especially this season. Play role players who are better suited for certain situations/teams/match-ups. Also, changing his lineup to be better defensively or better rebounding or better anything when it matters most. to Close. out. the. game., which we really haven't done all season.

Personally, I've never seen anything like it and getting sick of losing games we shouldn't, like we are sabotaging ourselves. Its inexplicable, the coaching decisions made in games this season. "Going against the grain" has been a season's motto.

Here is the article praising Coach Rose for 'changing things up' against us(click on article title):

BYU basketball: Cougars change starting lineup against Gonzaga
BYU basketball notes Coach begins game with Winder, Sharp hoping to set an early tone. (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars/57576203-88/byu-game-rose-lineup.html.csp)

jazzdelmar
02-22-2014, 06:53 AM
Never happen. Rose is arguably best coach in WCC and doesn't even have an 80% w-l percentage. Out of necessity, Few did this with Edwards but quickly reverted to uber conservatism and pulled him. He also benched DS quickly but relented and restored his precious starting lineup for stretch run.

Ekrub
02-22-2014, 06:54 AM
In Few's defense, Rose had to change it up. We were their last hope at maybe getting an at large. We are in the tourney as it stands. I'd like to see few become a little more free-thinking at times (throwing in Edwards to absorb some fouls, allowing Coleman to get buck wild, using dranginis like a starter) but in all honesty Few's conservatism has won us a chunk of games this season. I get what you are saying but comparing Few to a desperate rose isn't entirely fair.

MTZag03
02-22-2014, 07:01 AM
I'm afraid I agree with the OP. It love what Few has done, but it is ridiculous not to put your best matchups on the floor. It's even more ridiculous when some of the players are not playing well.

jazzdelmar
02-22-2014, 07:02 AM
In Few's defense, Rose had to change it up. We were their last hope at maybe getting an at large. We are in the tourney as it stands. I'd like to see few become a little more free-thinking at times (throwing in Edwards to absorb some fouls, allowing Coleman to get buck wild, using dranginis like a starter) but in all honesty Few's conservatism has won us a chunk of games this season. I get what you are saying but comparing Few to a desperate rose isn't entirely fair.

In short order GU may be desperate as well.

Ekrub
02-22-2014, 07:09 AM
In short order GU may be desperate as well.

Doubt it. We'll win our next three and at least get to championship in WCC tourney.

Goshzagit
02-22-2014, 07:12 AM
Never happen. Rose is arguably best coach in WCC and doesn't even have an 80% w-l percentage. Out of necessity, Few did this with Edwards but quickly reverted to uber conservatism and pulled him. He also benched DS quickly but relented and restored his precious starting lineup for stretch run.

Exactly. The OP points this out -- we see what is working and we do what does work, then all of sudden, back to the same ineffective lineup...at the expense of a 12-pt lead vs Memphis in the last 4 mins or at the expense of a 15-2 run vs BYU.

Whether its Ryan Edwards, or Kyle Dranginis, or someone sitting out, or Gerard Coleman, etc, et al....doesn't seem to matter. "We are losing games we shouldn't" says it best. Based on a trend here, not an anomaly.

Against Top-100 teams, we are digging ourselves out of holes to start games, status quo to start 2nd halves, and unable to close out games or hold leads. All this with the same friggin' lineup Coach Few digresses to time and time again.

Its like his blood is boiling with other players in the game, outside of his 'comfort' lineup.

Few said it himself(essentially admitting his fault), "if I could play my starters 40 mins a game, I would." That is an exact quote.

Amazing, isn't it?

We've seen certain lineups are WAAAYYYYY better than others, sure, yet what about the lineups that defensively shuts a team down and leads to a 20-pt swing, such as vs Memphis? That night it was Gerard Coleman, Pangos, and Dranginis playing together...leading them to a 12 pt lead.

BYU it was Coleman again, sprinkled with Ryan Edwards, who they didn't have an answer for, besides fouling, and he HITS his FT shots, meanwhile Karnowski goes 2-8 from line.

Again, some will pick on OP or the one line saying "Edwards hits his FT shots and should have play more than Karnowski".

No one is stating that, yet what about riding a hot hand or just be willing to utilize or continue to adjust to what IS working.

Just play your best lineups in the moment, not only what worked in practice vs the scout team last week.

Coach Few is required to make substitutions and it seems to eat at him, quite literally I might add. He can't wait to go back to the same lineup that got us in a hole in the first place, couldn't stop the opposing team, or couldn't close out the last 5 games vs quality opponents.

Its not about "so and so" vs "so and so", its only about winning the damn game and clearly making adjustments that do not work. Not adjustments, yet predictable, borderline "clockwork" decisions.

Our lineup until the first TV timeout, to start a 2nd half, and the final 4-5 minutes to close a game is our worst vs a good team. Statistics show this, eye test shows this, results show this. Makes no sense to make changes to what is not working at the expense of what is working.

To me, its borderline insanity, as stated above:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/6912e40ee8be739aada94dc917947edc/tumblr_mt5fxakgHu1s9v5qzo1_400.jpg

bartruff1
02-22-2014, 07:23 AM
Rose is a very good coach and a even better person as Max has pointed out.... he is also 11-5 in the Conference and on the bubble and will probably have to win the WCC Tourney to make the NCAA.... he has been changing line up's all year...

If only he would come to Gonzaga and coach...but he won't, because he would have to give up his football season pass.

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 07:30 AM
Never happen. Rose is arguably best coach in WCC and doesn't even have an 80% w-l percentage. Out of necessity, Few did this with Edwards but quickly reverted to uber conservatism and pulled him. He also benched DS quickly but relented and restored his precious starting lineup for stretch run.

Rose has 2 wins vs 5 losses against GU in the last 3 years and he is the better coach. Great call. Good coach but not better than Few, not an argument. Only people who think that are BYU fans and people trolling for attention.

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 07:33 AM
Few said it himself(essentially admitting his fault), "if I could play my starters 40 mins a game, I would." That is an exact quote.


Just out of curiosity when and where did this exact quote come from?

Zagdawg
02-22-2014, 07:34 AM
Doing what each has done....one coach has secured another WCC championship.....one coach is playing to hopefully get into the dance.

Even in a rebuilding year Few has gotten it done.

They may meet again in Vegas and we will see who can make the appropriate adjustments to win the game.

Which team would you rather be a fan of?

coolhandzag
02-22-2014, 07:36 AM
Never happen. Rose is arguably best coach in WCC and doesn't even have an 80% w-l percentage. Out of necessity, Few did this with Edwards but quickly reverted to uber conservatism and pulled him. He also benched DS quickly but relented and restored his precious starting lineup for stretch run.

Please see response to similar quotation and previous thread.

peg645
02-22-2014, 07:37 AM
I agree 1000%!

bartruff1
02-22-2014, 07:38 AM
Rose has 2 wins vs 5 losses against GU in the last 3 years and he is the better coach. Great call. Good coach but not better than Few, not an argument. Only people who think that are BYU fans and people trolling for attention.

Well, you are only half right....the BYU fans don't think he is better than Few..... at least the fans on their forum.....

Zagceo
02-22-2014, 08:21 AM
I don't hear anybody explaining why coach Few takes players that have given him the lead or got him back into games and puts them back on the bench in favor of his line up.

In what world does this make sense?

willandi
02-22-2014, 08:30 AM
I think we should get rid of Few!!! There are several posters, on this forum, who, by their own admission and/or statements, know more than Few and would make a better head coach. Please post you resume's here so we can pick the most likely to be successful.

VinnyZag
02-22-2014, 08:39 AM
If Rose was the coach at GU, and the Zags lost @LMU, @Pepp and @Pacific in addition to @Portland, imagine the carnage in Zagville.
Look, I don't doubt that Rose is a good coach and I have to agree that Few has done a few things this year that I don't understand. But it's just hyperbole to say that Rose is the best coach in the WCC.

Ekrub
02-22-2014, 08:45 AM
I think we should get rid of Few!!! There are several posters, on this forum, who, by their own admission and/or statements, know more than Few and would make a better head coach. Please post you resume's here so we can pick the most likely to be successful.

This is boring.

bartruff1
02-22-2014, 08:52 AM
The fact that I don't understand something, certainly doesn't mean it is wrong.

Now I can only speak for myself but if I had no confidence in the coach and was disappointed in the team's performance...well....I would quit following that team....

If insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result....then playing the same old broken record would certainly meet that definition.

It would be sane (to me) to follow a program that met your expectations.

scott257
02-22-2014, 08:54 AM
Doubt it. We'll win our next three and at least get to championship in WCC tourney.

We won't win the next game if they play as poorly as they did against BYU.

willandi
02-22-2014, 08:58 AM
This is boring.

This is boring? How about ALL the posters that state that there is a serious flaw in Few as a coach? I get it! 80% win rate, but only against weaker opponents. Poor win rate in the NCAA's. I get all the points the complainers are making...over and over and over. If you don't want to hear the same (boring) response, COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT, A UNIQUE COMPLAINT! Then it may be worth a different response, but until then, it's just the same old garbage. If you can (and have) done better, you won't mind showing your credentials. Otherwise, my same old boring response is just as valid as the same old boring complaints. Why don't you complain about them?

raise the zag
02-22-2014, 09:03 AM
I don't hear anybody explaining why coach Few takes players that have given him the lead or got him back into games and puts them back on the bench in favor of his line up.

In what world does this make sense?

Precisely, because there is no explanation.

Case in point.

Honestly, we looked the best all year when, due to unfortunate injuries, Coach Few was forced to utilize new combinations and lineups throughout an ENTIRE game and/or forced to match our lineups to our opponent. To play our best.

FWIW, our largest average margin of victory came during this stretch. I'm happy as a clam our injured players have returned and healthy, yet point remains....when Coach puts any lineup outside his "trustworthy" 3-PG lineup, we are at our best. Every game, every scenario, even when we were missing our best players.

Says it all, imho. I do not like that this was exposed at the expense of some players, b/c that is unfortunate, yet just shows why Coach Few's "go to" lineup is not working and not effective when it matters most -- starting and finishing games.

Inexplicable.

ZagHouse
02-22-2014, 09:04 AM
Hopefully someone shows Shem Ryan's line from the game and uses it to light a fire. If not, then maybe the kid from Montana should get more time.

Pallet
02-22-2014, 09:08 AM
I would be interested if someone who watches the game several times could chart when substitutions are made and who replaces who. That would show if coach Few is using a similar rotation every game or if he is making adjustments from game to game.

Zagceo
02-22-2014, 09:08 AM
This is boring? How about ALL the posters that state that there is a serious flaw in Few as a coach? I get it! 80% win rate, but only against weaker opponents. Poor win rate in the NCAA's. I get all the points the complainers are making...over and over and over. If you don't want to hear the same (boring) response, COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT, A UNIQUE COMPLAINT! Then it may be worth a different response, but until then, it's just the same old garbage. If you can (and have) done better, you won't mind showing your credentials. Otherwise, my same old boring response is just as valid as the same old boring complaints. Why don't you complain about them?

The question is why does coach Few take players that are giving him leads (Memphis) or getting them back into games (BYU) and going away from those line ups which result in losses?

Their must be a very logical reason but since no reporter has asked the question to coach Few this is a very good place for fans to ask the question imo.

jazzdelmar
02-22-2014, 09:10 AM
Precisely, because there is no explanation.

Case in point.

Honestly, we looked the best all year when, due to unfortunate injuries, Coach Few was forced to utilize new combinations and lineups throughout an ENTIRE game and/or forced to match our lineups to our opponent. To play our best.

FWIW, our largest average margin of victory came during this stretch. I'm happy as a clam our injured players have returned and healthy, yet point remains....when Coach puts any lineup outside his "trustworthy" 3-PG lineup, we are at our best. Every game, every scenario, even when we were missing our best players.

Says it all, imho. I do not like that this was exposed at the expense of some players, b/c that is unfortunate, yet just shows why Coach Few's "go to" lineup is not working and not effective when it matters most -- starting and finishing games.

Inexplicable.

The three point guard starting lineup is an artifice so that DS can start and play 30 minutes, period. No way even Few could justify not starting either KP or GB.

raise the zag
02-22-2014, 09:23 AM
jazzdelmar: The three point guard starting lineup is an artifice so that DS can start and play 30 minutes, period. No way even Few could justify not starting either KP or GB.

agreed and good point, yet why does he continually reinsert this lineup when its not working, if ever, especially when we are building a lead(Memphis) or shutting down an opponent(BYU)?

Even the 15-2 run vs BYU was NOT his starters. Nor was the 20-5 run vs Memphis.

Literally, the exact moment our starters were put back in both games to seemingly "close" it out, we gave it away or quite frankly, lost it.

Not even mentioning the 9-pt and 10-pt deficits, respectively, to start both games.

This is not taking in account either Portland game, where we were gaining on them AT Portland or built a 22-pt lead UNTIL the starters went back in. In all games, it was someone or several other players playing with better chemistry, better effectiveness, hot hand, etc etc.

More I think about it, the CRAZIER it seems. Its unreal, the list goes on...

Especially, after re-watching the games yesterday and today via DVR...its like Coach Few's clockwork rotations, so does our lead disappear or lose the games at nearly the second he puts the lineup back in the game.

Unbelievable! ! !

Zagceo
02-22-2014, 09:31 AM
I don't hear anybody explaining why coach Few takes players that have given him the lead or got him back into games and puts them back on the bench in favor of his line up.

In what world does this make sense?


Precisely, because there is no explanation.

I disagree. Coach Few has a reason or explanation he just has the luxury to not have to face his critics because they don't exist outside the GUB. This is what causes people to ask questions and make up their own logic.

Imo there is no logical explanation but that said I'm sure coach Few has his own logical reason and I would love to hear it.

jazzdelmar
02-22-2014, 09:37 AM
I disagree. Coach Few has a reason or explanation he just has the luxury to not have to face his critics because they don't exist outside the GUB. This is what causes people to ask questions and make up their own logic.

Imo there is no logical explanation but that said I'm sure coach Few has his own logical reason and I would love to hear it.


CEO, I'm kinda disagreeing because some third party experts, such as Miles Simon last game, are gently expressing puzzlement at some of his moves. It's a nascent trend but maybe it will take root. Anyway, hope usd cashiers Billy and he catches on back at GU, thereby bringing some senior standing to Few's gang of yes men.

Ajay
02-22-2014, 09:38 AM
Wish I shared your optimism, but I don't think this team is tourney bound this year. Hope to see adjustments tonight which may require less Karno if he's not ready to play, Edwards as needed and I still think Mielke brings it and deserves a few minutes.

jazzdelmar
02-22-2014, 09:41 AM
Wish I shared your optimism, but I don't think this team is tourney bound this year. Hope to see adjustments tonight which may require less Karno if he's not ready to play, Edwards as needed and I still think Mielke brings it and deserves a few minutes.

New here? You seem the optimist. Jk, welcome.

Zagceo
02-22-2014, 09:49 AM
CEO, I'm kinda disagreeing because some third party experts, such as Miles Simon last game, are gently expressing puzzlement at some of his moves. It's a nascent trend but maybe it will take root. Anyway, hope usd cashiers Billy and he catches on back at GU, thereby bringing some senior standing to Few's gang of yes men.

I thought Miles called a great game and do agree he was questioning some moves. I remember halftime at Memphis and one commentator in the studio just went off on "who is this Coleman guy" and why has he not been playing more.

jazzdelmar
02-22-2014, 09:53 AM
I thought Miles called a great game and do agree he was questioning some moves. I remember halftime at Memphis and one commentator in the studio just went off on "who is this Coleman guy" and why has he not been playing more.

Yes you're right. In any case, at least there is some healthy objective opinion going on. For just the opposite, check out the post game radio show. While Cory is a loyalist he bravely and gamely offers some critique but it's more than overshadowed by Few's minions who specialize in spin and deniability for the staff

willandi
02-22-2014, 10:05 AM
Hasn't Few's e-mail address been posted? Look it up, grow a pair and ask him yourself, if it means that much to you! Don't rely on other people to ask the questions then complain that they don't, ask him yourself and let everybody know the answer!
Quit doing the same boring thing, game after game, post after post. Do something different! Ask Few yourself and then teell everybody what he says! Corner him after a game. Just do something different!

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 10:36 AM
Yes you're right. In any case, at least there is some healthy objective opinion going on. For just the opposite, check out the post game radio show. While Cory is a loyalist he bravely and gamely offers some critique but it's more than overshadowed by Few's minions who specialize in spin and deniability for the staff

Just what have the staff been denying? Is it public comments or are you using your mind reading tricks again?

Saxon_zag
02-22-2014, 10:45 AM
Just what have the staff been denying? Is it public comments or are you using your mind reading tricks again?


in game adjustments are Mark fews downfall. Willingness to change anything based off of results during the game is just not there. Too stubborn or something.. DS playing time is an honest conspiracy and a problem imo.... You can say what you want about this team not being deep etc. etc. but we don't put our best foot forward with the DS GB KP 3 guard lineup all the time.. DS can't shoot, KP can some of the time although never seems 100%, and GB is just flat afraid to pull the big shot during games... IDK why coleman and nunez don't get more of a chance with this team.. I don't know why few has buried every athletic wing we ever get to transfer here from juco or otherwise... I just don't know....

Saxon_zag
02-22-2014, 10:46 AM
Rose has 2 wins vs 5 losses against GU in the last 3 years and he is the better coach. Great call. .

Great measurement of how good a coach is..... Also not a small sample size at all..... :jk:

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 10:59 AM
in game adjustments are Mark fews downfall. Willingness to change anything based off of results during the game is just not there. Too stubborn or something.. DS playing time is an honest conspiracy and a problem imo.... You can say what you want about this team not being deep etc. etc. but we don't put our best foot forward with the DS GB KP 3 guard lineup all the time.. DS can't shoot, KP can some of the time although never seems 100%, and GB is just flat afraid to pull the big shot during games... IDK why coleman and nunez don't get more of a chance with this team.. I don't know why few has buried every athletic wing we ever get to transfer here from juco or otherwise... I just don't know....
I think everybody on this board understands that you do not like DS, even though the numbers prove your wrong. Just curios as to why? Is the the GPrep Ferris thing, or are you one of those idiots who thinks that the only reason he plays is because his name is Stockton? I will give you he is not an All American or the team MVP. But the kid has proven that he can play at this level and has put up numbers to prove he has played well. So do you have a rational or fact based reason for running him down or is it that you just do not like him?

Great measurement of how good a coach is..... Also not a small sample size at all..... :jk:
OK small sample but the easiest comparison and was in response to being the best coach in WCC. Shall we look at winning percentage, league titles, post season appearances, All American players, players drafted, current players in the NBA, etc... We can expand the sample size all you want, but the answer is still going to be the same. Few>Rose

Zagceo
02-22-2014, 11:18 AM
Why does coach Few continually reinsert his starting lineup when its not working especially when we are building a lead(Memphis) or shutting down an opponent(BYU)?

Anyone want to take a stab at the question?

Its not an unreasonable question imo. We ask because we care and more fans are starting to ask.

jazzdelmar
02-22-2014, 11:24 AM
Why does coach Few continually reinsert his starting lineup when its not working especially when we are building a lead(Memphis) or shutting down an opponent(BYU)?

Anyone want to take a stab at the question?

Its not an unreasonable question imo. We ask because we care and more fans are starting to ask.

Dunno, maybe he prefers players he can see eye to eye with?

northsidezagfan
02-22-2014, 11:29 AM
Dunno, maybe he prefers players he can see eye to eye with?

I'm glad to finally have the real Jazz back. Not the imposter that has been around the last few weeks.

gonwick
02-22-2014, 11:42 AM
I agree with the op.

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?48738-Starting-lineups-matter&highlight=Starting+lineups+matter

gonwick
02-22-2014, 11:50 AM
This thread has brought me back to a post I made pre Memphis, above, about starting lineups. Few didn't change, gu lost. Then, post byu loss, this other post is now one I repeat. It's eerie how we are often back at the same spot.

"Probably because the team isn't very good this year, a lot of threads of ended up in the same spot.

The wins have pretty much been over teams that are mediocre at best, so not much to take away. Interestingly, the BYU and SMC games were the most comfortable, which, combined with those programs being down this year, made them anticlimactic. Close wins over mediocre teams don't create much enthusiasm.

Losses lead people to wonder why the team lost. For some reason, this always goes like this:

Post game thread on what went wrong.
Most people comment on rotations, clock/timeout management, player performance.

Then someone throws out one of the following:
Few has won 80% of his games (has made the tournament every year, or some variant, implying that he cannot be questioned)
Incorrectly asserts that posters want Few fired or asks who could do better (or in other ways redirects the posts, changing the conversation from one about real issues to a straw man that no one suggested)
Questions a poster's sports history or intelligence if they question Few
Gonzaga used to be terrible, so we should be grateful they are relevant
Calls out a poster for a personal attack on a player when there was no attack other than questioning on court performance
Very rarely (if ever) someone actually says fire Few.
Almost never: someone says something negative about a player that is out of bounds.

For me, those are all dead end posts. The first several happen in almost every thread, multiple times, the last 2 almost never happen. I don't think that the board has become a dumping place for doubters and haters. I think people are more vocal in questioning Few. That's not a bad thing. Whether it's because personnel decisions have been particularly vexing this year (because there are positions with no clear frontrunners), or because Wichita St. and other NCAA failures loom large in people's memories, or because there's nothing else to talk about I don't know. An excellent point in a post above about how Few never answers real questions about the team from the media, so that also creates a void for fans." Me, about two weeks ago.

I do wish Spokane had better media and Few was more available. Then maybe instead of guessing, we would know why he does the same thing, without fail,regardless of efficacy. And as for the win record this year, I would requote myself and others again and say that gu would be hard pressed to lose more than 80% to this cupcake parade.

Ekrub
02-22-2014, 12:23 PM
This is boring? How about ALL the posters that state that there is a serious flaw in Few as a coach? I get it! 80% win rate, but only against weaker opponents. Poor win rate in the NCAA's. I get all the points the complainers are making...over and over and over. If you don't want to hear the same (boring) response, COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT, A UNIQUE COMPLAINT! Then it may be worth a different response, but until then, it's just the same old garbage. If you can (and have) done better, you won't mind showing your credentials. Otherwise, my same old boring response is just as valid as the same old boring complaints. Why don't you complain about them?

Hey buddy, I'm an unabashed few lover. He's what makes this program tick. Without him we would fall apart like Butler and Boise State are going to. That said, he has some flaws and occasionally makes poor decisions. People will talk about that on a message board about Gonzaga basketball. The constant appeal to authority around here regarding literally ANYTHING that has to do with GU basketball is tiresome and defeats the purpose of the board. (unless you want to see goat pictures and talk about tacos all day)

By the way I like your dog. He seems friendly.

CdAZagFan
02-22-2014, 12:47 PM
If Rose was the coach at GU, and the Zags lost @LMU, @Pepp and @Pacific in addition to @Portland, imagine the carnage in Zagville.
Look, I don't doubt that Rose is a good coach and I have to agree that Few has done a few things this year that I don't understand. But it's just hyperbole to say that Rose is the best coach in the WCC.

+1000

gonzagafan62
02-22-2014, 12:48 PM
This is boring.

+10000

No need to get rid of a coach that wins 80% of the time. Be careful what you wish for you just might get it, and then more. If you want a bum head coach to come in here and not get to the tournament, lose the WCC over and over and over again, do it.

I am not interested in anything like this.

wnczagfan
02-22-2014, 12:58 PM
This thread has brought me back to a post I made pre Memphis, above, about starting lineups. Few didn't change, gu lost. Then, post byu loss, this other post is now one I repeat. It's eerie how we are often back at the same spot.

"Probably because the team isn't very good this year, a lot of threads of ended up in the same spot.

The wins have pretty much been over teams that are mediocre at best, so not much to take away. Interestingly, the BYU and SMC games were the most comfortable, which, combined with those programs being down this year, made them anticlimactic. Close wins over mediocre teams don't create much enthusiasm.

Losses lead people to wonder why the team lost. For some reason, this always goes like this:

Post game thread on what went wrong.
Most people comment on rotations, clock/timeout management, player performance.

Then someone throws out one of the following:
Few has won 80% of his games (has made the tournament every year, or some variant, implying that he cannot be questioned)
Incorrectly asserts that posters want Few fired or asks who could do better (or in other ways redirects the posts, changing the conversation from one about real issues to a straw man that no one suggested)
Questions a poster's sports history or intelligence if they question Few
Gonzaga used to be terrible, so we should be grateful they are relevant
Calls out a poster for a personal attack on a player when there was no attack other than questioning on court performance
Very rarely (if ever) someone actually says fire Few.
Almost never: someone says something negative about a player that is out of bounds.

For me, those are all dead end posts. The first several happen in almost every thread, multiple times, the last 2 almost never happen. I don't think that the board has become a dumping place for doubters and haters. I think people are more vocal in questioning Few. That's not a bad thing. Whether it's because personnel decisions have been particularly vexing this year (because there are positions with no clear frontrunners), or because Wichita St. and other NCAA failures loom large in people's memories, or because there's nothing else to talk about I don't know. An excellent point in a post above about how Few never answers real questions about the team from the media, so that also creates a void for fans." Me, about two weeks ago.

I do wish Spokane had better media and Few was more available. Then maybe instead of guessing, we would know why he does the same thing, without fail,regardless of efficacy. And as for the win record this year, I would requote myself and others again and say that gu would be hard pressed to lose more than 80% to this cupcake parade.

After tonight, all the cupcakes are belong to us. WCC Champions!

ArchaeaBYU
02-22-2014, 01:01 PM
Few is a godsend for Gonzaga. BYU had more incentive to win, and is a decent team with a competent coach, nothing more.

Most teams would sell their left nut to hire him, and Gonzaga will always be in the national conversation as long as he coaches for you.

All fans are frustrated after a loss. BYU fans have been frustrated after each of the ten losses this year, complaining coach doesn't mix it up enough, can't coach defense, doesn't emphasize free throws, and is too predictable.

We both have decent teams, not spectacular this year, with reasons to be optimistic. In fact, Gonzaga is one team I root for in every game except the BYU game. I like how Coach Few finds great players or makes some that way. No Jabari is pining away to go to Spokane or Provo.

Let's hope both make it to the Conference Tourney and beyond. BTW, we were pissed how we played in Spokane.

VinnyZag
02-22-2014, 01:41 PM
Few is a godsend for Gonzaga. BYU had more incentive to win, and is a decent team with a competent coach, nothing more.

Most teams would sell their left nut to hire him, and Gonzaga will always be in the national conversation as long as he coaches for you.

All fans are frustrated after a loss. BYU fans have been frustrated after each of the ten losses this year, complaining coach doesn't mix it up enough, can't coach defense, doesn't emphasize free throws, and is too predictable.

We both have decent teams, not spectacular this year, with reasons to be optimistic. In fact, Gonzaga is one team I root for in every game except the BYU game. I like how Coach Few finds great players or makes some that way. No Jabari is pining away to go to Spokane or Provo.

Let's hope both make it to the Conference Tourney and beyond. BTW, we were pissed how we played in Spokane.

Helpful to hear an outside perspective. Thanks for the contribution.

I thought I had heard that there was a decent chance that Jabari Parker would go to BYU.

ArchaeaBYU
02-22-2014, 01:46 PM
Helpful to hear an outside perspective. Thanks for the contribution.

I thought I had heard that there was a decent chance that Jabari Parker would go to BYU.

One will never know. But, no NBA sure-fire prospect grows up thinking, I want to go to BYU! Some lesser prospects like Mika do, but Jabari grew up in Chicago with an NBA father. His mother had BYU ties, so I presume he gave lip service to her preference and to his cultural roots.

What I forget about BYU and many Zag fans forget about their team, is although we love our players, most of them are limited in one phase or another; that's why they are on our teams. If they had unlimited potential they'd be at Duke, Kentucky or Syracuse. The coaches have to make allowances for what our teams' players can do. So it often makes it appear our coaches are making silly decisions, when in fact they are covering for deficiencies inherent in the players.

MDABE80
02-22-2014, 02:14 PM
Rose was flexible (see the term) and innovative (see the term) against us. Good coaches do that. Im thinking our is much less so.and I think that's the concensus on the board. Same thing everygame. Predictable and etched in stone. Imagination is needed when you notice the other team has scouted you and the other team has changed things. that we send the starters Rose sent the bench kids in to get some fouls on Shem. Once he got his fouls, he inserted Mika and made a few changes as the game went on. Rose sent those bigs in to get some fouls qued up. It worked.
Last year we had the talent to do the same thing and win....not this year. So Coach Few does the same thng to begin the game and he does the same thing during the game. Usually we win. Not this time.
So the key is this: Change your lineup and be flexible or get some amazing talent who will win games no matter what the other team does. Few accomplished neither this year so far. 5 losses is good for most teams at this point. This past week, there was posted article from YAHOO. The writer spelled it out. We're not kidding anyone this season. We set up a weak schedule an we're paying for it at least in the estimate of most scribes. We played nobody special by design. And yet, only 5 losses with a subpar team against much less than our usual tough OOC schedule is nothing to crow about. We'd have 8-10 losses now if the schedule had been like previous years.
I love the kids and the game. This season will be a forgettable one....and I hope soon. We need to pay attention when recruiting and let the kids know we mean it when we invite them for a visit.
Next season will be better. Somebody is responsible for the direction of the program. I think, just because of the W-L record we'll get in the NCAA tournament as it's tough to leave a 5-6 loss (even 7 loss) team out. But something went pretty wrong this year to be exposed like this. Not sure what happened. GU isn't like other schools. We care about the kids and each gets individual attention for studies. It's intense. We forgive deficienciesme let down. as though they're part of life. As the season progresses, we're worse or maybe "even" as a team while other teams improve as the season progresses. And we get disappointed with the results???? (ie one or 2 and done)... But it may be the best we'll do for a while. I'm not satisfied. Most are. Hope for the best. Best wishes...oh and I know I'm out of sync. No nasty comments will change thoughts. Not being cynical either. Half of you see what I see. My note is NOT a post game letdown. It's just what I think.

ArchaeaBYU
02-22-2014, 02:22 PM
It may be a forgettable season for you, but one in which you play in the Tourney is never a horrible season. You may be one and done, or win one and then lose, but if this is your down season, you should be grateful.

BYU has no seniors and will lose a number to missions. Rose must juggle players every single year, never knowing who's coming or going. BYU's talent pool is not real deep.

Zags will recover and probably win the conference Tourney. Few always impresses me.

bartruff1
02-22-2014, 02:54 PM
Actually Arch, Abe is right, that is the consensus on the board...that Few is good...but not good enough ....There are only a dozen or so people that post here anymore and only a few minions who think he is a great HOF Coach...... Abe reflects the attitude and the culture here....

I do not think that is the attitude of the thousands of fans that support the coach and the program.

MDABE80
02-22-2014, 03:02 PM
Good sober comment Bart.

ArchaeaBYU
02-22-2014, 03:02 PM
Actually Arch, Abe is right, that is the consensus on the board...that Few is good...but not good enough ....There are only a dozen or so people that post here anymore and only a few minions who think he is a great HOF Coach...... Abe reflects the attitude and the culture here....

I do not think that is the attitude of the thousands of fans that support the coach and the program.

What would be required to become a HOF coach? I am not a student of Few, but I know a thing about limitations being a fan of BYU. Gonzaga isn't UCLA or Arizona with unlimited recruiting options. Great players make coaches look better. If there is ever a western Butler, it will be Gonzaga.

Gonzaga consistently makes the Tourney and occasionally goes deep into the Tourney. That is a good life for most fans. The consistent complaint about Rose had been his failure to win Tourney games until Jimmer came along. The Zags have always been giant killers. Sure last year was a disappointment, but what are the reasonable expectations for Zags, year in and year out?

bartruff1
02-22-2014, 03:49 PM
What would be required to become a HOF coach? I am not a student of Few, but I know a thing about limitations being a fan of BYU. Gonzaga isn't UCLA or Arizona with unlimited recruiting options. Great players make coaches look better. If there is ever a western Butler, it will be Gonzaga.

Gonzaga consistently makes the Tourney and occasionally goes deep into the Tourney. That is a good life for most fans. The consistent complaint about Rose had been his failure to win Tourney games until Jimmer came along. The Zags have always been giant killers. Sure last year was a disappointment, but what are the reasonable expectations for Zags, year in and year out?

To be sure, I think you are right...I am one of those minions that think Few is a cinch HOF Coach and that the people on this board that are quick (eager ) to criticize him and even the players...... are complete jerks with totally unrealistic expectations.

I believe Few knows more and cares more about winning than any of his critics. None of whom have ever coached at his level.

Perhaps it is the fact that internet boards attract people that can make outrageous and irresponsible claims with no accountability .... I would pay big bucks to see them say this krap to Few or to the players....

Thanks for coming by...bart

TacomaZAG
02-22-2014, 03:57 PM
Next season will be better. Somebody is responsible for the direction of the program. I think, just because of the W-L record we'll get in the NCAA tournament as it's tough to leave a 5-6 loss (even 7 loss) team out. But something went pretty wrong this year to be exposed like this. Not sure what happened. GU isn't like other schools. We care about the kids and each gets individual attention for studies. It's intense. We forgive deficienciesme let down. as though they're part of life. As the season progresses, we're worse or maybe "even" as a team while other teams improve as the season progresses. And we get disappointed with the results????

Few is responsible for the direction of the program, and it is most definitely a positive direction. Maybe not the arc some people expect, but can anyone honestly say they thought GU would EVER be ranked #1 in the country. Not me............never in a million years.

Regarding what went wrong this year, it has been said early in the year, but deserves repeating here. IMHO I think Few and the staff were honestly shocked at how Kelly O. blew up last year and went to the NBA. By the time they realized he was gone for sure, it was too late to replace him through recruiting or JC transfer. Also, I think that Spangler may have stayed had he thought or known Kelly would be gone after last year. Can you imagine this year's team with either Kelly or Spangler in the paint, or both of them if the chips had fallen perfectly.

As soon as everyone found out Kelly was gone (Spangler was already gone), this turned into a "bridge" year for sure. Just get to the Dance to keep the streak alive and get ready to kick some @ss next year when Wiltjer joins KP, GBJ, Karno, and the rest of the guys. Also, GC and AN will have a year of action under their belts and be ready to produce at a much higher level. Likewise KD.

All is not lost. Keep the faith. The future is bright.

Go ZAGS

Saxon_zag
02-22-2014, 04:33 PM
I think everybody on this board understands that you do not like DS, even though the numbers prove your wrong. Just curios as to why? Is the the GPrep Ferris thing, or are you one of those idiots who thinks that the only reason he plays is because his name is Stockton? I will give you he is not an All American or the team MVP. But the kid has proven that he can play at this level and has put up numbers to prove he has played well. So do you have a rational or fact based reason for running him down or is it that you just do not like him?

OK small sample but the easiest comparison and was in response to being the best coach in WCC. Shall we look at winning percentage, league titles, post season appearances, All American players, players drafted, current players in the NBA, etc... We can expand the sample size all you want, but the answer is still going to be the same. Few>Rose

I don't hate Stockton don't paint me in to that corner. I just don't think the team is putting their best foot forward with him over 20 minutes.

bballbeachbum
02-22-2014, 04:51 PM
did you all hear what Rose said?


"I thought we did a way better job this time around of staying with shooters," BYU coach Dave Rose said. "They really like to penetrate and bring shooters back behind the penetration and slide them to the corner. The penetration is basically (designed) to get you sucked in, and I thought our guards did a better job of staying out on shooters."

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400506793

he knew exactly how to play them with his matchup zone and I'd bet we see more of it no matter how much hunting and gathering goes on, no matter how much attitude adjustment. Rose challenged GU's backcourt to create its own shot, and not just create for others, and to do it off the bounce, and GU struggled. Maybe they will improve on that. Rose is not the first to see this with this GU team

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 04:51 PM
Rose was flexible (see the term) and innovative (see the term) against us. Good coaches do that. Im thinking our is much less so.and I think that's the concensus on the board. Same thing everygame. Predictable and etched in stone. Imagination is needed when you notice the other team has scouted you and the other team has changed things. that we send the starters Rose sent the bench kids in to get some fouls on Shem. Once he got his fouls, he inserted Mika and made a few changes as the game went on. Rose sent those bigs in to get some fouls qued up. It worked.
Last year we had the talent to do the same thing and win....not this year. So Coach Few does the same thng to begin the game and he does the same thing during the game. Usually we win. Not this time.
So the key is this: Change your lineup and be flexible or get some amazing talent who will win games no matter what the other team does. Few accomplished neither this year so far. 5 losses is good for most teams at this point. This past week, there was posted article from YAHOO. The writer spelled it out. We're not kidding anyone this season. We set up a weak schedule an we're paying for it at least in the estimate of most scribes. We played nobody special by design. And yet, only 5 losses with a subpar team against much less than our usual tough OOC schedule is nothing to crow about. We'd have 8-10 losses now if the schedule had been like previous years.
I love the kids and the game. This season will be a forgettable one....and I hope soon. We need to pay attention when recruiting and let the kids know we mean it when we invite them for a visit.
Next season will be better. Somebody is responsible for the direction of the program. I think, just because of the W-L record we'll get in the NCAA tournament as it's tough to leave a 5-6 loss (even 7 loss) team out. But something went pretty wrong this year to be exposed like this. Not sure what happened. GU isn't like other schools. We care about the kids and each gets individual attention for studies. It's intense. We forgive deficienciesme let down. as though they're part of life. As the season progresses, we're worse or maybe "even" as a team while other teams improve as the season progresses. And we get disappointed with the results???? (ie one or 2 and done)... But it may be the best we'll do for a while. I'm not satisfied. Most are. Hope for the best. Best wishes...oh and I know I'm out of sync. No nasty comments will change thoughts. Not being cynical either. Half of you see what I see. My note is NOT a post game letdown. It's just what I think.

You need to quit your day job and work for GU. That way you can fix the scheduling issues and of course the recruiting issues as well(just how do you let a kid know you mean it when you invite them for a visit...are you suggesting that staff is neglecting to request an RSVP?). It is unreal how smart people are looking in from the bleachers or watching TV. Just amazing insight. For instance I have seen every episode of E.R., as well as some of Grey's Anatomy so I would be happy to swing by your practice and let you know what your doing wrong, that is when I have some downtime away from being a Trauma Surgeon (unless I am working with the FBI chasing serial killers...I watch Criminal Minds as well). It is incredible how just watching makes you and expert, especially the day after.
Here is a suggestion, instead of getting the vapors because GU has lost 5 games and now is "exposed", why not sit back and see how the season ends and maybe you will get a little perspective. For example the 98-99 super team had 5 losses at this point of the year (including losses to Detroit Mercy & TCU), they went on a roll finished OK.

Because calling this season forgettable is insulting to the kids and the staff who are busting their ass on a daily basis.

Zagdawg
02-22-2014, 05:00 PM
Good to hear an opponents perspective -- we have a few in our midst whose unrealistic expectations lead them to disappointment and we have a few who just don't like the coach and use a loss to provide their input ---as someone mentioned earlier...welcome back jazz.

It will be good to get another win so that we can make sure that we are hanging another WCC banner on or own once again.


In a rebuilding year --the Zags are doing fine.


Keep up the hard work guys-----Go Zags.

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 05:05 PM
I don't hate Stockton don't paint me in to that corner. I just don't think the team is putting their best foot forward with him over 20 minutes.

Never said hate, dislike. But would be happy to stand corrected if you could present previous positive posts regarding DS. Prior to this year his numbers were at the 20 minute mark. Career statistics show the time has been warranted. This year the minutes have been up, but if you go through the losses ( other than Dayton) his minutes were at the 22 minute mark. You could look at the losses, seeing that other than Dayton/Memphis he did not play well, and that this team needs him to not only play well but play the extended minutes. The stats show this and the eye test shows it. To say otherwise is a based on something other than what is happening on the court.

Oregonzagnut
02-22-2014, 06:47 PM
By the time they realized he was gone for sure, it was too late to replace him through recruiting or JC transfer.

Our frontcourt isn't the problem at all IMO, it is the inconsistency of our backcourt, poor 3 pt shooting on the road, and sloppy turnovers and timid play. Instead of peaking our offense is floundering and our frontcourt has not been the problem in our losses. IMO, it is shooting 25% from 3 and actually NOT utilizing our frontcourt better. Edwards is plenty capable of playing more minutes.

Plus, DS is shooting 6-25 and 0-8 in all our losses and the last four games the team has barely shot 25% from 3 all year. Teams know now EXACTLY what lineup we are going to play (Few is too predictable) and they also know our weakest link to put pressure on. Not too hard to figure out the game plan for our opposition. We need to find a killer instinct to put teams away when we have big leads, not calm down, manage the clock and play to not lose.

Few's conservatism wins 80% of his games, but his conservatism loses 80% of the big, physical, nationally televised games. Few was determined to produce a tournament team with DS starting. But there are 2-3 guys who are better suited to play 25+ minutes at the wing position and help us win the big games. With stockton in we have no wing and the other team can exploit that if we shoot poorly from 3 or Karno and Dower are in foul trouble. Stocktons "calming effect" is absolutely not what we need right now. We need defensive fire. We need to be hunting shots. We need to be rebounding like Hart and Harris did, and taking control and NOT LETTING UP on our enemy.

IMO, our offense is collapsing and it has nothing to do with a "thin" frontcourt. It has to do with our backcourts inability to shoot the three on the road and to handle tough physical defensive pressure.

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 07:12 PM
Our frontcourt isn't the problem at all IMO, it is the inconsistency of our backcourt, poor 3 pt shooting on the road, and sloppy turnovers and timid play. Instead of peaking our offense is floundering and our frontcourt has not been the problem in our losses. IMO, it is shooting 25% from 3 and actually NOT utilizing our frontcourt better. Edwards is plenty capable of playing more minutes.

Plus, DS is shooting 6-25 and 0-8 in all our losses and the last four games the team has barely shot 25% from 3 all year. Teams know now EXACTLY what lineup we are going to play (Few is too predictable) and they also know our weakest link to put pressure on. Not too hard to figure out the game plan for our opposition. We need to find a killer instinct to put teams away when we have big leads, not calm down, manage the clock and play to not lose.

Few's conservatism wins 80% of his games, but his conservatism loses 80% of the big, physical, nationally televised games. Few was determined to produce a tournament team with DS starting. But there are 2-3 guys who are better suited to play 25+ minutes at the wing position and help us win the big games. With stockton in we have no wing and the other team can exploit that if we shoot poorly from 3 or Karno and Dower are in foul trouble. Stocktons "calming effect" is absolutely not what we need right now. We need defensive fire. We need to be hunting shots. We need to be rebounding like Hart and Harris did, and taking control and NOT LETTING UP on our enemy.

IMO, our offense is collapsing and it has nothing to do with a "thin" frontcourt. It has to do with our backcourts inability to shoot the three on the road and to handle tough physical defensive pressure.

Good to see we are back to blaming a loss, as well as all of the team's negatives on Stockton, I was afraid that Few was going to get lonely in the target zone, Good to see that Stockton is the weak link to be exploited when PK and Dower are in foul trouble and the team is not hitting their 3pt shots. Because other teams will exploit Stockton when the rest of the team is not producing, they won't attempt to exploit the bigs in foul trouble or sag of the Barham,KP, Bell,etc... when they are not hitting shots, no they will focus on shutting Stockton down. Sounds reasonable to me.

northsidezagfan
02-22-2014, 07:36 PM
Good to see that Stockton is the weak link to be exploited when PK and Dower are in foul trouble..........no they will focus on shutting Stockton down

They don't focus on shutting him down, they ignore him. That's the whole point. He shuts himself down. They exploit him by not guarding him so Pangos and Bell get face-guarded and can't get open. Makes it much hared to "hunt shots" as people like to put it these days. And the 1st paragraph places blame on all the guards, not just DS.


they won't attempt to exploit the bigs in foul trouble
? This has nothing to do with DS's offense, you usually exploit bigs in foul trouble by driving at them when they are on defense. This has nothing to do with the game plan to not guard DS.


or sag of the Barham,KP, Bell,etc... when they are not hitting shots

Please point to one team that has game planned to sag off of the 3 players you mentioned. This has never happened and never will happen.

bartruff1
02-22-2014, 07:43 PM
If Few was being UPSET by " 80% of the big, physical, nationally televised games "....well...now...that would be a problem.......or even 20%.... I don't think Gonzaga is losing 20% of the games they are favored to win...maybe...but I doubt it....

To lose to Memphis or BYU on the road is hardly a bad loss...in fact, I think they were both favored.

vandalzag
02-22-2014, 07:45 PM
They don't focus on shutting him down, they ignore him. That's the whole point. He shuts himself down. They exploit him by not guarding him so Pangos and Bell get face-guarded and can't get open. Makes it much hared to "hunt shots" as people like to put it these days. And the 1st paragraph places blame on all the guards, not just DS.


? This has nothing to do with DS's offense, you usually exploit bigs in foul trouble by driving at them when they are on defense. This has nothing to do with the game plan to not guard DS.



Please point to one team that has game planned to sag off of the 3 players you mentioned. This has never happened and never will happen.

Yes you missed the point. Ozagnut was saying that not me. Sarcasm alert

MDABE80
02-22-2014, 07:52 PM
You need to quit your day job and work for GU. That way you can fix the scheduling issues and of course the recruiting issues as well(just how do you let a kid know you mean it when you invite them for a visit...are you suggesting that staff is neglecting to request an RSVP?). It is unreal how smart people are looking in from the bleachers or watching TV. Just amazing insight. For instance I have seen every episode of E.R., as well as some of Grey's Anatomy so I would be happy to swing by your practice and let you know what your doing wrong, that is when I have some downtime away from being a Trauma Surgeon (unless I am working with the FBI chasing serial killers...I watch Criminal Minds as well). It is incredible how just watching makes you and expert, especially the day after.
Here is a suggestion, instead of getting the vapors because GU has lost 5 games and now is "exposed", why not sit back and see how the season ends and maybe you will get a little perspective. For example the 98-99 super team had 5 losses at this point of the year (including losses to Detroit Mercy & TCU), they went on a roll finished OK.

Because calling this season forgettable is insulting to the kids and the staff who are busting their ass on a daily basis.
Vandal your points are silly and pretty much baseless. Anymore you have a penchant to attack a poster because they don't see things like you do. Straw man attacks don't matter. I'm happy you think the elite 8 bunch as so good. I do too. Monson did a nice job.......we haven't seen and E 8 since he left. I'm not exactly sure why we whiffed on those 3 bigs last Summer. One of them is what we needed. Apparently Few didn't quite think so. It was apparent then and now that our front court would be lacking.......even you might imagine that loss of two of the finest BIGs we've had in the history of GU, might have drawn acute attention for the coach. More could have been done. SO without spending time clarifying that situation late in the season, I'll close. To be clear though, after spending upwards of 50 years running around on GU's campus, it'll take quite a bit more than a few disconnected baseless insults to draw serious attention.
Let's just hope we win the last 3 games and at least make it to the Dance. Best wishes.

northsidezagfan
02-22-2014, 08:02 PM
Yes you missed the point. Ozagnut was saying that not me. Sarcasm alert

Um he never said teams focus on shutting DS down. Not sure what you are trying to get at, sarcastic or not.

gonwick
02-22-2014, 08:04 PM
Abe, funny you mention straw men because that's what I was thinking as I read this thread. Most posts in this thread are about a valid question about few's coaching. Many are made with qualifiers that go out of their way to be respectful. Those who disagree are not able to offer a rational theory and instead I see terms offered in retort like trolls, jerks, and the classic responses about few's winning percentages and straw man arguments that equate questioning few with calling for him to be fired. I like him, I think he is a good man, great for the program, and I also think he makes mistakes and has areas for improvement. I think it would be great for the program and its fans if he was more available to the press (or if Heister was a real journalist).

MDABE80
02-22-2014, 08:08 PM
No worries...H'es a good man. Nothing new here.

BYU
02-24-2014, 09:04 AM
One will never know. But, no NBA sure-fire prospect grows up thinking, I want to go to BYU! Some lesser prospects like Mika do, but Jabari grew up in Chicago with an NBA father. His mother had BYU ties, so I presume he gave lip service to her preference and to his cultural roots.

What I forget about BYU and many Zag fans forget about their team, is although we love our players, most of them are limited in one phase or another; that's why they are on our teams. If they had unlimited potential they'd be at Duke, Kentucky or Syracuse. The coaches have to make allowances for what our teams' players can do. So it often makes it appear our coaches are making silly decisions, when in fact they are covering for deficiencies inherent in the players.

You need to grow a set some day. Mika is in the discussions as a top 10 freshman in the nation and you feel the need to go to another teams board and talk him down. Weak. Pathetic.

Mika is a guy other teams fans and players will naturally hate, but a fan of his team should love him and his game. Nice try for popularity on another teams board Judas.