PDA

View Full Version : Post Game radio side comment



Zags11
02-20-2014, 09:59 PM
Violette said "Carlino has the courage to shoot and fail. He can fail repeatedly but will shoot next shot. Zags dont have this type of player."

I disagree. Pangos will.

thoughts??

CDC84
02-20-2014, 10:05 PM
The problem is that Carlino shoots BYU out of basketball games, which is why he comes off the pine.

A 100% healthy Pangos has no fear of shooting and failing. But when you are playing at 60% (I don't buy his argument that the turf toe is 90%+ healed - he still has nowhere near the first step and acceleration off the bounce that he had in Maui), it really limits your aggressiveness.

Zags11
02-20-2014, 10:45 PM
I agree. Hence, why I was shocked at violettes opinion.

jazzdelmar
02-21-2014, 05:34 AM
agree KP is the only Zag with that mentality. im guessing Cory was talking about a toed KP.....the worst offenders are Barham (a better than avg shooter) and KD (an average shooter), they must lead the lg in pump fakes...and of course Bell who appears passive aggressive, at times running away from the shot and then chucking them up....one question: has Nunez actually made an outside shot this year? Coleman has one, I think.....this was a team that led the US in scoring the first few wks.....that team was fearless, this team is super hesitant.

Section 116
02-21-2014, 06:28 AM
Jazz, I believe you are on the right track! Few had a quote in the Spokesman Review today "We had a couple guys that weren't ready to compete tonight!"

Zags11
02-21-2014, 07:49 AM
Wow. He said that? Seems right.

drvenkman05
02-21-2014, 07:51 AM
Then WHY were they kept on the floor? Once again, Few has no problem slamming players AFTER a game but refuses to do anything meaningful DURING the game.


Jazz, I believe you are on the right track! Few had a quote in the Spokesman Review today "We had a couple guys that weren't ready to compete tonight!"

CDC84
02-21-2014, 08:02 AM
I keep saying that Few should keep Gary Bell Jr. out of the starting lineup to send a message to him. "You're not starting until you start hunting out your shot more. Pangos is 60% the rest of year. You must score. Until you start initiating offense, we're going with someone else. As soon as you start hunting out your shot, you'll start again."

Gary needs a kick in the rear from Few. Whining on his radio show has proven ineffective. He NEEDS to send a message. Coach K does this kind of thing as do many great coaches. It's not a punitive measure, but a way of igniting players who are capable of more.

Zagceo
02-21-2014, 08:02 AM
Jazz, I believe you are on the right track! Few had a quote in the Spokesman Review today "We had a couple guys that weren't ready to compete tonight!"

So do we think Coach Few figured this out after the game? I would like to hear the coach say I made a mistake. I should have done a better job with my substitutions. Few can't control bad performances but he can limit their impact over the course of a game with the proper substitutions.

jazzdelmar
02-21-2014, 08:03 AM
Love to see a STARTING LINEUP of DS, KD, Coleman, Dower and Karno (actually Edwards, but why push it)......That would be coaching.

cjm720
02-21-2014, 08:05 AM
So do we think Coach Few figured this out after the game? I would like to hear the coach say I made a mistake. I should have done a better job with my substitutions. Few can't control bad performances but he can limit their impact over the course of a game with the proper substitutions.

But what if his best option was on the court? That seems to be the case all year. That is, there's a reason why Angel isn't getting time (assuming he's talking about Karno).

cbbfanatic
02-21-2014, 08:08 AM
I keep saying that Few should keep Gary Bell Jr. out of the starting lineup to send a message to him. "You're not starting until you start hunting out your shot more. Pangos is 60% the rest of year. You must score. Until you start initiating offense, we're going with someone else. As soon as you start hunting out your shot, you'll start again."

Gary needs a kick in the rear from Few. Whining on his radio show has proven ineffective. He NEEDS to send a message. Coach K does this kind of thing as do many great coaches. It's not a punitive measure, but a way of igniting players who are capable of more.

for a kid thats been the in program for 3 years, i dont see this having the impact that you suggest. it is very difficult to change your mentality when you've been playing a certain way for a long time. much easier to "break" him of that as a frosh (coming into a new team, system, etc) than a late in the year jr. i think its part of the player that he is. psychological/behavioral things like this take more than a benching to change, otherwise it would have changed long ago, i would think.

TacomaZAG
02-21-2014, 08:09 AM
agree KP is the only Zag with that mentality. im guessing Cory was talking about a toed KP.....the worst offenders are Barham (a better than avg shooter) and KD (an average shooter), they must lead the lg in pump fakes...and of course Bell who appears passive aggressive, at times running away from the shot and then chucking them up....one question: has Nunez actually made an outside shot this year? Coleman has one, I think.....this was a team that led the US in scoring the first few wks.....that team was fearless, this team is super hesitant.

+1 Jazz.

I call it regression toward the mean. The problem is that the Maui team and the current team are EXACTLY the same team, no improvements, no adjustments, no changes. We stayed the same and everyone else improved, so we have regressed by comparison. This is also a "classic" Few team. In a big game or when it comes to crunch time, get more conservative and do things even more the same. Never take a chance, never play a hunch, just "keep sawing wood" and hope not to lose. Can't blame the long term injuries, they are part of the game and part of the "chess match" of game preparation.

We are really easy to game plan for opposing coaches, because nothing ever changes. Everybody knows who the starting 5 will be and who will get the major minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Go ZAGS

EEzag
02-21-2014, 08:13 AM
for a kid thats been the in program for 3 years, i dont see this having the impact that you suggest. it is very difficult to change your mentality when you've been playing a certain way for a long time. much easier to "break" him of that as a frosh (coming into a new team, system, etc) than a late in the year jr. i think its part of the player that he is. psychological/behavioral things like this take more than a benching to change, otherwise it would have changed long ago, i would think.


Broken hand and broken foot might have something to do with it. He reminds me of Gray. Great offensive potential, but lets the game come to him too much. He is still a great perimeter defender and alas will keep him on the floor most nights.

Zagceo
02-21-2014, 08:16 AM
But what if his best option was on the court? That seems to be the case all year. That is, there's a reason why Angel isn't getting time (assuming he's talking about Karno).

Few gives an interview and calls out his players for a no show game I believe I have the same complaint against the coach. Players have bad games it happens but coaches who stick with those players should not happen. Loyal to a fault makes you a weak coach.

gamagin
02-21-2014, 08:27 AM
+1


Love to see a STARTING LINEUP of DS, KP, Coleman, Dower and Karno (actually Edwards, but why push it)......That would be coaching.

I'm leaning towards a lineup with all good or best hands. SD, Edwards, KD, DS, KP. First guy to show reluctance to do what he's sent in to do ( shooters shoot, bigs dominate underneath, passers pass etc) is replaced by the likes of GB, GC, AN, PK etc.

With the marching order that if you keep giving 100% you stay in. Clear and simple and relentless vs. unclear fuzzy and timid.

drvenkman05
02-21-2014, 08:31 AM
I keep saying that Few should keep Gary Bell Jr. out of the starting lineup to send a message to him. "You're not starting until you start hunting out your shot more. Pangos is 60% the rest of year. You must score. Until you start initiating offense, we're going with someone else. As soon as you start hunting out your shot, you'll start again."

Gary needs a kick in the rear from Few. Whining on his radio show has proven ineffective. He NEEDS to send a message. Coach K does this kind of thing as do many great coaches. It's not a punitive measure, but a way of igniting players who are capable of more.

I think you make a great point!

gamagin
02-21-2014, 08:41 AM
Tacoma: SD/Edwards inside, KP, KD outside and DS distributing. You can't find a shooter? Open a window. Let some air in. Good hands. Now, whether they will shoot and board remains to be seen. But can they ? Yes, they can.

TacomaZAG
02-21-2014, 08:50 AM
Tacoma: SD/Edwards inside, KP, KD outside and DS distributing. You can't find a shooter? Open a window. Let some air in. Good hands. Now, whether they will shoot and board remains to be seen. But can they ? Yes, they can.

Gam: My mistake, I read the post too quickly, thought I deleted my response............

Go ZAGS

adoptedzag
02-21-2014, 09:09 AM
I keep saying that Few should keep Gary Bell Jr. out of the starting lineup to send a message to him. "You're not starting until you start hunting out your shot more. Pangos is 60% the rest of year. You must score. Until you start initiating offense, we're going with someone else. As soon as you start hunting out your shot, you'll start again."

Gary needs a kick in the rear from Few. Whining on his radio show has proven ineffective. He NEEDS to send a message. Coach K does this kind of thing as do many great coaches. It's not a punitive measure, but a way of igniting players who are capable of more.

I think this would be effective. I also think that USD is the perfect place to do it. Let Gary get that sick feeling in his stomach that comes from watching.

vandalzag
02-21-2014, 09:18 AM
Few gives an interview and calls out his players for a no show game I believe I have the same complaint against the coach. Players have bad games it happens but coaches who stick with those players should not happen. Loyal to a fault makes you a weak coach.

Just curious how you would have coached the game? To whom was his loyalty misplaced? Who should have played more and who should have sat last night? I will give you Coleman in the second half, but in whose place, Bell (played solid D) Stockton (he only played 22 minutes and Few sat him quickly after the second bounce pass that PK let go through his hands and then missing the pass back to him). Really don't see the whole "loyalty" concept, other than maybe PK playing 19 minutes,but he did have 8 pts. Edwards could have been given a little more run, but his stamina peaks at about 5 minutes. Nunez is so lost offensively if the other team is playing Zone he may was well stay at half court. Other than that Barham's 15 minutes with 3 points being little light, maybe but who gets his minutes? 200 minutes in a game and with Pangos and KD playing nearly 70 it does not leave a ton of playing time. So he is a weak coach for being "loyal" to players during a loss, is he the same weak coach for being "loyal" to players during a win?

Prior to the game if someone had said they were going to hold the BYU below their avg for scoring, fg%, 3pt%, and limit Haws to 12 points you would most on this board would have given GU as walking away with the W. The defensive game plan was solid (pretty sure the coaches do the game plan and coach the defense during the game was well). The offensive plan was there. You can't coach players to not miss open shots, I assume that he is not telling them to miss on purpose. You can't coach kids to compete, but you can punish them for failing to compete and reward those that do. Few called players out, but he did not name the players because he does not work that way. So calling him a weak coach is just silly. Reminds me of the youth sports and parents who complain about their kid not getting enough playing time. I know that I have never lost a game or missed a call while watching on TV or sitting in the stands. This is especially true the day after the game is taken place.

Zagceo
02-21-2014, 09:34 AM
Just curious how you would have coached the game? To whom was his loyalty misplaced? Who should have played more and who should have sat last night? I will give you Coleman in the second half, but in whose place, Bell (played solid D) Stockton (he only played 22 minutes and Few sat him quickly after the second bounce pass that PK let go through his hands and then missing the pass back to him). Really don't see the whole "loyalty" concept, other than maybe PK playing 19 minutes,but he did have 8 pts. Edwards could have been given a little more run, but his stamina peaks at about 5 minutes. Nunez is so lost offensively if the other team is playing Zone he may was well stay at half court. Other than that Barham's 15 minutes with 3 points being little light, maybe but who gets his minutes? 200 minutes in a game and with Pangos and KD playing nearly 70 it does not leave a ton of playing time. So he is a weak coach for being "loyal" to players during a loss, is he the same weak coach for being "loyal" to players during a win?

Prior to the game if someone had said they were going to hold the BYU below their avg for scoring, fg%, 3pt%, and limit Haws to 12 points you would most on this board would have given GU as walking away with the W. The defensive game plan was solid (pretty sure the coaches do the game plan and coach the defense during the game was well). The offensive plan was there. You can't coach players to not miss open shots, I assume that he is not telling them to miss on purpose. You can't coach kids to compete, but you can punish them for failing to compete and reward those that do. Few called players out, but he did not name the players because he does not work that way. So calling him a weak coach is just silly. Reminds me of the youth sports and parents who complain about their kid not getting enough playing time. I know that I have never lost a game or missed a call while watching on TV or sitting in the stands. This is especially true the day after the game is taken place.

You answered your own question.

Edwards 8 min 5 rebounds

Karno 19 min 1 rebound

vandalzag
02-21-2014, 09:57 AM
You answered your own question.

Edwards 8 min 5 rebounds

Karno 19 min 1 rebound

So based on that you are calling Few a weak coach? You have to have more than that? PK avg 25 minutes played 19 so how loyal was Few? Based on rebounding only, you may want to look at the stats and compare the guards for each team. Still wondering where you get misplaced loyalty resulting being a weak coach.

Zagceo
02-21-2014, 10:14 AM
So based on that you are calling Few a weak coach? You have to have more than that? PK avg 25 minutes played 19 so how loyal was Few? Based on rebounding only, you may want to look at the stats and compare the guards for each team. Still wondering where you get misplaced loyalty resulting being a weak coach.

Karno was falling down dropping passes getting pushed around and missing free throws (2-7) playing 19 min and getting 1 rebound. I call that loyalty when you have another 7' player come in and get 5 rebounds in 8 min and score 5 points and is 1-1 from the free throw line.

Players will have bad nights it happens but coaches get paid to react in these situations. Its called game adjustments.

sittingon50
02-21-2014, 10:22 AM
I was really hoping to see Meilke in the game. From what little we've seen, he seems to have a nose for the ball. Couldn't afford to give up those 2nd chance points.

I don't care if he can't score a lick; Zags have played 4 on 5 for years anyway!

vandalzag
02-21-2014, 10:32 AM
Karno was falling down dropping passes getting pushed around and missing free throws (2-7) playing 19 min and getting 1 rebound. I call that loyalty when you have another 7' player come in and get 5 rebounds in 8 min and score 5 points and is 1-1 from the free throw line.

Players will have bad nights it happens but coaches get paid to react in these situations. Its called game adjustments.

Agreed, but seeing how he did reduce his minutes and went with other lineups and players that would be considered making adjustments. Loyalty has nothing to do with a player's ability or stamina. Edwards did great, but he is not physically capable of playing more than 5 minutes at a stretch. I agree that he should have seen a little more time last night, but his lack of PT has nothing to do with misplaced loyalty by Few, he sees them both everyday and knows who gives the team a better chance to win.

cjm720
02-21-2014, 10:32 AM
You answered your own question.

Edwards 8 min 5 rebounds

Karno 19 min 1 rebound

You can't be serious.

Zagceo
02-21-2014, 10:39 AM
Agreed, but seeing how he did reduce his minutes and went with other lineups and players that would be considered making adjustments. Loyalty has nothing to do with a player's ability or stamina. Edwards did great, but he is not physically capable of playing more than 5 minutes at a stretch. I agree that he should have seen a little more time last night, but his lack of PT has nothing to do with misplaced loyalty by Few, he sees them both everyday and knows who gives the team a better chance to win.

Why is Edwards not in game shape? Is Coleman or Nunez in game shape?

sittingon50
02-21-2014, 10:44 AM
They were all sucking air last night. Altitude.

Zagceo
02-21-2014, 10:46 AM
They were all sucking air last night. Altitude.

Agree. All the more reason to play your bench.

vandalzag
02-21-2014, 10:54 AM
Why is Edwards not in game shape? Is Coleman or Nunez in game shape?

What does Edwards have to do with Coleman or Nunez? Neither had the medical issues that Ryan had. Edwards not being in game shape is based upon his medical issues last semester which pretty much wiped out all of his off season conditioning. You do not get into season game shape during the school year, what you get with the body type he has is the ability to play in spurts, at best. Combine that with playing at Salt Lake and it does not equal great stamina. He is also lugging around a bigger load than all but one player on the court, so conditioning is a big thing.

Zagceo
02-21-2014, 11:30 AM
What does Edwards have to do with Coleman or Nunez? Neither had the medical issues that Ryan had. Edwards not being in game shape is based upon his medical issues last semester which pretty much wiped out all of his off season conditioning. You do not get into season game shape during the school year, what you get with the body type he has is the ability to play in spurts, at best. Combine that with playing at Salt Lake and it does not equal great stamina. He is also lugging around a bigger load than all but one player on the court, so conditioning is a big thing.

If all this is true and I'm not questioning your information the path I would have taken is to redshirt the young man.

cjm720
02-21-2014, 11:31 AM
If all this is true and I'm not questioning your information the path I would have taken is to redshirt the young man.

We have limited depth up front and he was needed, then he got sick.

Zagceo
02-21-2014, 11:32 AM
You can't be serious.

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac342/ceo_500/BYU_stats_zps901b185e.png

Zagceo
02-21-2014, 11:35 AM
We have limited depth up front and he was needed, then he got sick.

I was aware of his tonsil issue but thought he was cleared guess not. He could have applied for a medical redshirt after his sickness.

vandalzag
02-21-2014, 11:51 AM
If all this is true and I'm not questioning your information the path I would have taken is to redshirt the young man.

That was the plan until he got on campus and showed that he was not so far away from playing, but then he got sick which held him back. But they needed the insurance policy since they did not get a third big in the off season, especially when Dower went down. At that point he had only played one game and a medical could have been a consideration but there is no guarantee of getting it since he was not out for the season. I think the staff were hoping he would do just what he did last night and that is be able to give a handful of minutes should the primary bigs have issues. I think the kid has shown a lot, but he is not better the PK at this point, if he was Few would be playing him. Will he play a little more, I hope so but he is not ready to play 26 minutes a game. PK is averaging 10 and 7 with 2 blocks, in 26 minutes on 6 shots a game, solid numbers that command attention from the other team. I see Edwards moving forward as a compliment to that not a replacement.

cjm720
02-21-2014, 12:07 PM
I was aware of his tonsil issue but thought he was cleared guess not. He could have applied for a medical redshirt after his sickness.

ryanedwards@gonzaga.edu

siliconzag
02-21-2014, 12:15 PM
Getting back to Cory's comments, I have had the pleasure of meeting him in 2003 in San Diego and visiting with him while he was convalescing from his ankle injury (which was horrible). A couple of things: first off, a nicer more unassuming big guy you've never met. Second: he was a fierce competitor, even though he had a calm court demeanor. He was not as quick as Casey, but he had a lot of intensity and fire. He knows fire when he sees it.

Teams can have bad games. Last night was a stinker. Fortunately it exposed some weaknesses, all of which can be addressed. Our team is not as quick as some, although, there is not a big advantage for BYU on this. I personally agree with the need to shake things up, try a different rotation. I think Kyle is a good guy to give even more minutes. He rebounds well and generally has a nose for the ball. I am not sure Gary has gained his confidence back yet, and Kevin is still hampered, and it is obvious. Our offense looks purposeless at times. Our transition defense last night on occasion was pathetic, and our ball handling was awful.

I am not a big fan of public shaming as a motivator, as Coach has done a couple of times. It may have worked in SLC in 2003 when he famously questioned that version of the Zag's work ethic. It is still too early to say the sky is falling, even though the Zags look like they have more opportunities than they have accomplishments. Nobody is talking about the demise of Syracuse after they were defeated on their own home court by a very mediocre Boston College. Zags--keep sawing wood.

Sili

Zags11
02-21-2014, 12:34 PM
Good post sili.

sullyzag66
02-21-2014, 01:06 PM
I keep saying that Few should keep Gary Bell Jr. out of the starting lineup to send a message to him. "You're not starting until you start hunting out your shot more. Pangos is 60% the rest of year. You must score. Until you start initiating offense, we're going with someone else. As soon as you start hunting out your shot, you'll start again."

Gary needs a kick in the rear from Few. Whining on his radio show has proven ineffective. He NEEDS to send a message. Coach K does this kind of thing as do many great coaches. It's not a punitive measure, but a way of igniting players who are capable of more.
Bell took 11 shots, more than any other Zag (Pangos and Dower, 9 each), but only made 3. If a couple more 3's had connected, we're probably talking a different outcome. For sure, he can't make 'em from the bench.


Sent from my iPhone

Chicken Ball
02-21-2014, 02:51 PM
I keep saying that Few should keep Gary Bell Jr. out of the starting lineup to send a message to him. "You're not starting until you start hunting out your shot more. Pangos is 60% the rest of year. You must score. Until you start initiating offense, we're going with someone else. As soon as you start hunting out your shot, you'll start again."

Gary needs a kick in the rear from Few. Whining on his radio show has proven ineffective. He NEEDS to send a message. Coach K does this kind of thing as do many great coaches. It's not a punitive measure, but a way of igniting players who are capable of more.

I don't think Gary's problem last night was that he wasn't shooting his shot, but that he wasn't making them. What was his final tally? 3/10?