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View Full Version : Should Bouldin be playing over 30 mins a game?



youreachiteach
02-14-2007, 04:35 PM
I know there are Freshmen and then there are Freshmen, Greg, Kevin, Chase, but dont get me wrong, I like Matt and his ###ential, but is it wise for a coach to play Matt that many mins this early?? He's been struggling big time offensively, and he's not bringing on the defensive end as well.

Why does Few keep starting him and playing that many mins??

Plus DR and Pargo play 38-39mins a game as well, where's the D going to come from?

Imo, Matt should be playing 20mins a game off the bench.

mdZag23
02-14-2007, 04:44 PM
remember, we are missing 30 starter minutes already! There is only 200 player minutes in a game!

Plus, he's 18 years old. I'm sorry but 18 year olds just don't get tired.

As far as the production, I totally disagree with you on the defensive topic. He plays solid man 2 man D. He gets beat occasionally, but who doesn't?

As for the offense, shooters don't get hot sitting on the bench!

TR11Zag
02-14-2007, 04:47 PM
was great the other night. I know he has been a mess on offense, but we need that kind of D (except the fouling of the 3pt shooter) in the game more often now that Josh is gone.

I hope he gets a few more minutes than he has been averaging.

UberZagFan
02-14-2007, 05:00 PM
I've said this before, either here or on one of the previous incarnation of these boards...even without taking in Matt's struggles earlier in the conference season, it is questionable whether he "earned" these minutes. Maybe the coaches feel others have "lost" their minutes and Matt was the best replacement option, but personally, I just would like to see frosh spend a little more time earning minutes by coming off the bench. Adam did it and I'll go out on a limb and say that as good as Matt may become he won't likely be the third pick in the draft.


Caveat: I'm sure my opinion would change if Matt was playing like Durant but he's not, so moot point.

sittingon50
02-14-2007, 05:15 PM
Uber, Ammo had 5 Srs. on that team that could all contribute. Matt does not.

UberZagFan
02-14-2007, 05:22 PM
Uber, Ammo had 5 Srs. on that team that could all contribute. Matt does not.

I understand the situation is different, and maybe that's a somewhat poor example. But there's something to be said about earning playing time, earning the start, etc.

Zaghuatanejo
02-14-2007, 05:37 PM
Uber...got to agree with you on this one. It seemed as soon as Matt was getting the national media attention Few started playing him more but his production seemed to decline. I love the kid's game but nearly all of the Zag freshman guards over the years played less minutes than he's received this year. I think he will become one of the best all-around Zag guards ever but right now I think he's getting a little too much playing time.

SunDevilGolfZag
02-14-2007, 05:40 PM
Simple answer: Yes, he's key to the team's future

jayray
02-14-2007, 05:45 PM
Simple answer: Yes, he's key to the team's future

This sounds eerily familiar to what most people were saying the last 10 months about Josh.

Few is all about the senior leadership - Bouldin must be having some great practices to be getting all this PT.

mgadfly
02-14-2007, 06:18 PM
No, he probably shouldn't be. However, PMAC should NOT be getting the minutes that he gives up, it should be PENDO. Take a look at kenpom's ratings to get an idea about who statistically deserves the minutes.

PG Pargo: 53.8% effective FG %, gets to the free throw line, tons of assists, turns the ball over a little too often, but very good defensive player.

SG Raivio: 47th best offensive rating in the country, 57.3% effective FG, takes care of the ball well, and gets in the passing lanes more than we give him credit for.

SF: Bouldin: okay offensive player overall, but the lowest effective FG% of all the contributing zags. Better rebounder on the offensive glass than most guards, great passer, turns the ball over too much, okay to good defender for a SF.

SF: PENDO: very effective and efficient offensive player (highest on EFG on team), great offensive rebounder, okay defensive rebounder (a little better than Mallon), good from the FT line and gets there considering the minutes played, doesn't turn the ball over much and plays good defense for undersized PF.

SF: Downs: Doesn't rebound as well as PENDO, but better than Bouldin. Very efficient scorer so far (2nd to PENDO), good defender and okay passer, but does turn the ball over a little too much.

PMAC: Pretty poor stats all around, especially turnovers.


My rotation based on stats:

PG: Pargo
SG: Raivio
SF: Downs
PF: Pendo
C: Kuso

Reserve G/F: Bouldin
Reserve Big: Mallon
If you really need him: PMAC

Nothing against PMAC, as I really like him as a player, and maybe if he got more minutes he'd become more consistent, but statistically he has done less to "earn" minutes than Bouldin.

youreachiteach
02-14-2007, 06:29 PM
Pmac has started most of his 3 yrs here at GU, and GU has won alot of games with him in the lineup getting 20-25 mins plus. GU was something like 9-1 with him starting, and then pouf, here comes Matt and here came the losses. Most succesfull and great teams all have a defensive minded stopper who is not a me first scoring type of player in the starting 5. Pmac loves to pass, plays great D and when he does shoot, it usually goes in. Over 50% FG and over 40% 3pt. Yea he doesnt shoot it when he's always open, but who cares? Other guys can score right? However Few loves offense, and Matt fits in here, but the Ls keep mounting and so do the NCAA tournament chances with it.

I agree that Matt B hasnt earned his mins. Let young kids earn their time.

zag47
02-14-2007, 07:07 PM
Matt was hired on as a point guard. Never played any other position from the time he was in 6th grade. His vision and depth as a visioned play maker is unquestionable. In his junior year in HS he was ranked 45th in the nation all positions and averaged 14 points per game. Why, he is the kind of player that makes other players and the team look good. He is now playing a position he never played before. When Scout ranked him the #1 shooting guard in the west I was amazed as they had never seen him play 2 or 3 period ever. Matt is the kind of player that always knows his out and always plays it forward. He would just as soon drop a dime to score as score himself FACT. The whole team will benefit next year when Few gives him the ball (and he will). Right now you have a freshman playing out of his position, Injured most of the season, bumping with the bigs and still showing pretty damned good if you ask me. Listen what Few has said recently "we have had to lean on him" Few knows what he's got. Matt has these min's. because there is no doubt in the coaching staff's eyes that even playing a position he never played before coming here, he is absolutely the best option. The sooner we get him the ball the better. I know most of you (no offense) don't know most of what I have written here. We have one of the finest shooters in the nation and one of the best slashing go to the rim guards around and a player who can get them the ball. Bouldin will always s### the open man with the best shot, if it's him, you will find him shooting if it isn't he will get the open man the ball. I'm saying right now every time I see anyone holding the dribble at the top of the key with 30 left, his eye on the rim, never looking for the out and being closed out with 3 seconds left, it's time to make other choices. I know, you know and the other team has seen the film, it will work some of the time even when the other team knows what is going to happen. Why? Because we have a hard nosed slasher that can make desperation shots look planned but why not have a passing guard who is looking for that slashing guard or the open outside shooter who would rather drop a dime to the open man than take a desperation shot?

Matt is a point guard that can play any position and as Few has said "we have had to lean on him", he could have played anywhere he wanted to, he came here to play point. When every kid in America wanted to be like Mike, young Bouldin was watching Pistol Pete's game films, take it to the bank he could make a bigger difference at point than he has with his back to the board. Maybe next year it will happen but one day he will take it over and when it happens everyone will look back and wonder why didn't Few do this or that before. Answer, he is now paying his dues playing wherever they tell him to.

47

mgadfly
02-14-2007, 07:14 PM
Well, Few gave PMAC a shot at more minutes against Saint Mary's (first game) and we lost. In games that PMAC received more minutes GU has gone 4-1. In games that Bouldin received more minutes GU has gone 12-7. In games that they tied on minutes we are 1-1.

So who has PMAC defeated?
EWU, Rice, Baylor, Portland St., and LMU

Lost to:
Saint Mary's


Bouldin wins:
Texas-San Antonio, North Carolina, Idaho, Texas, UW, Santa Clara, Portland, San Diego, Stanford, Pepperdine, SMU

Bouldin Losses:
WSU, Georgia, Duke, Nevada, Virginia, LMU, Santa Clara



I'm just not convinced that puting in a statistically inferior (yet older) player that has played more minutes in our big wins against Eastern and Portland St. is the cure to our problems this season. I don't think giving PMAC more minutes against any of the teams we lost to when Bouldin received more minutes would have made the difference. Especially since the WSU game he fouled out, so he wouldn't have been any more effective. Bouldin had a good game against Georgia with 12 p, 6 r, 4 a. He had 4 p, 4 r, 4 a in 25 minutes against Duke, a poor game, but PMAC played 18 minutes and had 2 p and did nothing else at all. Bouldin had 10 p, 5 r, 3 a, and a steal against Nevada and had 8 p and 6 r against Virginia. PMAC played 23 minutes in the Virginia game, so I'm unconvinced that giving him 2 or 3 of Bouldin's minutes would have made up the difference in that game either. Bouldin was pretty awful against LMU, and I can't imagine PMAC being much worse, but when you look at PMAC's line for the LMU & Santa Clara losses he played 35 minutes, was 1 for 7 shooting with 3 rebounds and 3 assists.

I really like PMAC, but those minutes belong to PENDO not him. He hasn't earned them. When given a chance in conference play he has been less than impressive. I'd like to see him continue to get 15 mpg or so and would love to see him start being much more effective in those minutes.

zag47
02-14-2007, 07:47 PM
Please, as I said the staff views their options and play Bouldin at 3 even though he never played 3 until 5 mos. ago. I'm not even trying to debate the playing time at the 3, give Bouldin 5 mins. a game at point and you will see where he should be playing.

47

trzag
02-14-2007, 09:56 PM
I've watched Matt play since 6th grade. He's an amazing point guard. IMO he will be one of the best point guards in the nation before he leaves Gonzaga. There is a lot on his plate for any freshmen. Playing a different position and playing big minutes on a team which is searching for a leader and looking for ways to win is not easy. If the Zags are to struggle a little this year - these minutes will be valuable to Matt's development and the future of the Zags in years to come.

jazzdelmar
02-15-2007, 02:36 AM
He shld have been at the point a lot more....Why did Pargo get the shot, it's not like he's Nashie out there? Next yr u say Matt will be THE point....So what happens to Pargo? I have been saying this for a while: There will be a PG controversy in Zagland....Pargo's ego will be bruised for sure.....But it's not like Matt's gonna wait til his senior yr to inherit the s###....He wd leave first......Something else to chew on....

bigblahla
02-15-2007, 04:24 AM
He'll be battle tested for next year.

Go!! Zags!!!

ZagtheDog
02-15-2007, 06:37 AM
I know there are Freshmen and then there are Freshmen, Greg, Kevin, Chase, but dont get me wrong, I like Matt and his ###ential, but is it wise for a coach to play Matt that many mins this early?? He's been struggling big time offensively, and he's not bringing on the defensive end as well.

Why does Few keep starting him and playing that many mins??

Plus DR and Pargo play 38-39mins a game as well, where's the D going to come from?

Imo, Matt should be playing 20mins a game off the bench.


I'm amazed people can't see that Matt is the future of this program and the more playing time he gets his freshman year the better. Who else gets his minutes? PMAC? Yah right, as inconsistant as Matt has been, he is leaps and bounds more productive than PMAC.

Matt is the highest recruit the Zags have ever gotten, the faster this boy gets up to speed the better it is for the program.

zag47
02-15-2007, 06:37 AM
Pargo not playing point will increase his scoring Bouldin will find him.

youreachiteach
02-15-2007, 12:01 PM
Well Im glad you are thinking for the future, but the present is now, and the losses keep on coming.

ZagtheDog
02-15-2007, 01:07 PM
Well Im glad you are thinking for the future, but the present is now, and the losses keep on coming.

and I suppose Matt is the cause? Give me a break. Please tell me who would get his minutes? Even in Matt's off games he produces rebounds and assists.

brasszag
02-15-2007, 01:26 PM
Guys don't get game-speed experience on the bench. And this isn't a pro team where there's no long term vision. Few has a 4 year plan for Matt's improvement and how he fits in with the rest of the team based on who's there this year and beyond.

There aren't a lot of guys on this year's team with the "complete set" of skills so no matter what lineup we throw out there now, there's s###s of opportunity for other teams.

Might as well build for the future, than just re-tread current players (like PMAC) who do not seem to be playing per the coaches instructions. I can pretty much guarantee you that any lack of playing time on his part is due to not following the coaches instructions in the minutes he does get - just like every other player.

It's great that we've got good enough guys on our bench that people want to see them play, but what we've got (especially right now) is a team of role-players or guys just gaining experience.

To sum. Matt's minutes are high simply because there's nobody else who has earned them, and in that case Few wants the minutes to go to some use... in this case D-I game-speed experience.

john montana
02-15-2007, 02:17 PM
matt should be on the floor, especially if the alternative is pmac. matt is much more productive than pmac. i do think downs should get more minutes, and for that to happen matt would have to lose some, but i certainly wouldn't sit matt for pmac for long stretches.

Vanzagger
02-16-2007, 09:16 PM
remember when pmac beat sandiego in the closing seconds last year? Hey could someone tell me where the spell checker is:confused:

mdZag23
02-17-2007, 07:55 AM
I had at least 3 conversations with members of the coaching staff and listed to Coach Few speak in front of big groups of boosters on 2 other occasions. The message was clear PRIOR to the season starting.

First, MATT BOULDIN was going to play significant minutes this season. I'll let you all argue about what significant means. The second message that is really clear with the way the season has gone, Coach Few wasn't kidding!!! The kid has made some mistakes learning the college game, but he clearly deserves to be on the floor a lot and he makes players around him better! I'm not sure you can say that with Pierre and I only bring him up because that is where Matts' minutes are coming from.

Second, this team and this offense has always operated better with 2 solid guards. All this nonsense about who plays the point is just that, nonsense. Jeremy Pargo is the guy that I want handling the ball, if I'm the coach, most of the time. He just has that PG ability to break down defenses and get you into your offense. He picks up his dribble a little to much and has had some high TO games, but he's still young as well and that is going to happen from time to time. When he takes care of the ball, we always have a good chance to win!