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soupy07
02-08-2014, 07:18 PM
Nuff said

cggonzaga
02-08-2014, 07:18 PM
I'm shocked.

Stop passing to the bigs. Don't play Coleman after big first half.

SWZag
02-08-2014, 07:19 PM
Serious? That's your sixth post in 7 years? And that's what it is? Not sure what you would know what it is to be a coach.

kclubfounder
02-08-2014, 07:21 PM
I'm shocked at the foolishness of some OPs.

So I guess we are both shocked.

Birddog
02-08-2014, 07:21 PM
Players gotta make the plays, hardly the coaches fault.

Saxon_zag
02-08-2014, 07:21 PM
My god those plays in our halfcourt offense coming out of timeouts.. Especially the ones at the end where we got a shot clock violation and that horrible looking KD 3.. That's the best we can get coming out of a timeout? Once the first option is shut down we look like a rec league team at the gym....

cggonzaga
02-08-2014, 07:22 PM
Agreed. Were right players in the game down the stretch?

Ekrub
02-08-2014, 07:23 PM
Players passed up open shots so they could run out the shot clock. Not on few.

bigblahla
02-08-2014, 07:24 PM
Players gotta make the plays, hardly the coaches fault.

Yep.

Players didn't make enough plays to win. Have to play tough on the road for 40 minutes.

Go!! Zags!!!

Zagnailler
02-08-2014, 07:24 PM
Tough loss, no doubt but the fault lies more with our stars than with our coach. Apologies to the Bard.

Saxon_zag
02-08-2014, 07:24 PM
If it matters I have more posts than this guy and totally agree. Although it's hardly something that needs to be said at this point when we are going against a higher level opponent. Few can really recruit but he is not doing the team any favors with the in game decisions and horrible half court plays coming out of timeouts

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 07:24 PM
Players passed up open shots so they could run out the shot clock. Not on few.

When it happens all game it is on the coach (in part) if he doesn't change players.

DixieZag
02-08-2014, 07:24 PM
We got out played Bell passing up an open 3 on the possession that we heaved a 3

The possession that had Dower's shot gone would have put us up 3 - - would have made the end have a totally different feel - but why the violation in the first place

Kevin's 3 goes in. . .

We had them right where we wanted them, up 9 late and then tightened up - - the players tightened up and Kevin - a tough tough dude - just doesn't have it to pull them back in and Bell simply won't. Bell won't shoot the 3? Well, they will guard the drive. He shot 2 or 3 threes all game - a 40% guy

Got outplayed.

ZagHouse
02-08-2014, 07:25 PM
Gotta wonder how Drew feels. Thought we should have seen him in the second. Maybe Angel to draw another foul on their big. Need Bell to do more than defend. With Kevin hurt, he should be picking up the slack

surfmonkey89
02-08-2014, 07:25 PM
Players gotta make the plays, hardly the coaches fault.

Cool. So, quit throwing out his coaching record. Because it's not because he's any good - it's because the players made plays.

team6
02-08-2014, 07:26 PM
Honestly the players got outplayed, Few can't step on the court. I mean the players looked scared to even have the ball in there hands at the end of this one, got out played at the end not out coached.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

zagapotomus
02-08-2014, 07:26 PM
Serious? That's your sixth post in 7 years? And that's what it is? Not sure what you would know what it is to be a coach.

This attitude is what is worst about GUB, thinking you can dismiss someone who makes a comment like OP did just because they have few posts. It may have been a rash post, but don't get all high and mighty because you have 1,000+ posts.

cggonzaga
02-08-2014, 07:27 PM
If this was the first time we blew a lead against a good team I'd buy the players gotta make the plays statement. This game shouldn't have been close down the stretch.

HenneZag
02-08-2014, 07:28 PM
It's simple.

We didn't make the shots when we needed.

someone needed to hit the shot. KD rimmed it, and Pangos airballed. Horrible effort in the last 10-12 minutes. We will be average until we decide to win a big game on the road. This was huge for us. A ranked team on the road is what we are missing on our resume.

Pangos has not been the same player the last 4-5 games. If he is not 100% sit him. Coleman was very good tonight and saw limited minutes in the 2nd half.

HillBillyZag
02-08-2014, 07:28 PM
When a man seven feet tall and nearly three hundred pounds lets his slam get blocked by someone a foot shorter?, there isn't much else to say? They were laughing at Gonzaga on their bench, knowing that when push came to shove?, the Tigers would prove mentally and physically tougher than the Zags.

kclubfounder
02-08-2014, 07:28 PM
If this was the first time we blew a lead against a good team I'd buy the players gotta make the plays statement. This game shouldn't have been close down the stretch.

So losing leads against good teams is what causes your attitude. Better find another sport to follow. Even UCLA under Wooden wouldn't have satisfied your needs.

Blackbeard
02-08-2014, 07:29 PM
I hate Few but until we find a suitable replacement, he is with us for the long haul. I'm not sure he is entirely to blame tonight. He made a lot of poor substitution calls during the stretch which is on him but the team as a whole was completely sloppy. Memphis was also terrible tonight but came out on the better end of the deal.

GUZag08
02-08-2014, 07:29 PM
Blame it on Few that Pangos/Bell don't show up for big nonWCC games. 6 feet and not quick, shoot an nba 3. Try something. Guys are complete nonfactors. Pangos has an excuse at least.


#firefew

DixieZag
02-08-2014, 07:30 PM
When a man seven feet tall and nearly three hundred pounds lets his slam get blocked by someone a foot shorter?, there isn't much else to say? They were laughing at Gonzaga on their bench, knowing that when push came to shove?, the Tigers would prove mentally and physically tougher than the Zags.

A man who moments earlier hurt his knee enough that it hurt decently?

A block is some sort of indication of, what?

The players tightened up and played scared - he used every time out. Get off it.

surfmonkey89
02-08-2014, 07:30 PM
So losing leads against good teams is what causes your attitude. Better find another sport to follow. Even UCLA under Wooden wouldn't have satisfied your needs.

I don't think anyone here would be complaining if GU was as successful as UCLA. Go find another straw man to torch.

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 07:30 PM
I'm sure his poor jump was in NO way affected by the hard foul he took a few minutes earlier.


When a man seven feet tall and nearly three hundred pounds lets his slam get blocked by someone a foot shorter?, there isn't much else to say? They were laughing at Gonzaga on their bench, knowing that when push came to shove?, the Tigers would prove mentally and physically tougher than the Zags.

ZagNix
02-08-2014, 07:31 PM
I have a lot of respect for Few, but he was definitely out-coached this game. For as good as he's been, he's never been a good in-game coach. That's just the reality we live with.

Zagnailler
02-08-2014, 07:31 PM
This attitude is what is worst about GUB, thinking you can dismiss someone who makes a comment like OP did just because they have few posts. It may have been a rash post, but don't get all high and mighty because you have 1,000+ posts.
Value in insight is built up in a community over time. Those who take the time to share their thoughts, build a record that has value. Those who throw bombs only destroy.

whatazag
02-08-2014, 07:32 PM
Imo, Few had nothing to do with our loss tonight. Guys were just not securing rebounds and not hitting shots, which is par for the course for us this year, especially on the road.

Oregonzagnut
02-08-2014, 07:33 PM
Few stayed with Stockton too long once Memphis started pressure. Memphis used their athleticism to rattle us and it worked. We lost our composure and it slipped. Few does what he does and there is a reason Stockton fouled out.

But Pangos going cold is an issue. Why is this?

DixieZag
02-08-2014, 07:34 PM
Imo, Few had nothing to do with our loss tonight. Guys were just not securing rebounds and not hitting shots, which is par for the course for us this year, especially on the road.

Exactly.

cggonzaga
02-08-2014, 07:34 PM
KC,

Come talk to me about my attitude after we've won 10 National championships.

demian
02-08-2014, 07:34 PM
This attitude is what is worst about GUB, thinking you can dismiss someone who makes a comment like OP did just because they have few posts. It may have been a rash post, but don't get all high and mighty because you have 1,000+ posts.

I agree 100% with you zagapotomus. Who cares how many posts the OP has. I actually fall on the side that this was not the coaches fault. We lost. I cant say that I am shocked, I hate to admit it but we actually played better than thought we would AT Memphis. Tough to win on the road at ANY top 25 teams house. GU played really bad last 12 minutes or so and Memphis stepped it up. pastner didn't out coach few his players out played GU players. Not even saying that to be mean to the GU players, it happens sometimes. Just go win conference tourney and all is ok

gu03alum
02-08-2014, 07:34 PM
I have a lot of respect for Few, but he was definitely out-coached this game. For as good as he's been, he's never been a good in-game coach. That's just the reality we live with.

I'm just curious. What was Mark Few's role in the 21 wins this season? No in-game adjusments?

Rio Runner
02-08-2014, 07:35 PM
Another nationally televised game, another complete disappearing act by Gary Bell. The kid just can't handle the big stage, period. I love Mark Few, but I do blame him for not adjusting to this consistent trend. Bell wilts like a flower under the lights.

montanazag88
02-08-2014, 07:35 PM
I hate Few but until we find a suitable replacement, he is with us for the long haul. I'm not sure he is entirely to blame tonight. He made a lot of poor substitution calls during the stretch which is on him but the team as a whole was completely sloppy. Memphis was also terrible tonight but came out on the better end of the deal.

...leaving Coleman out of the lineup when going down by one with not one other Zag able to penetrate???? Also, can't understand why Barham was not in the final few possessions for the three ball. He's much better coming off the bench in terms of nailing the three.

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 07:35 PM
When game after game the same players "play scared" but stay in the game, two questions come to mind: why are they scared and why are they still playing? The second question is completely the fault of the coach and I would argue Few's habit of benching players for making mistakes (and then forgetting about them for long stretches - see Coleman and Draingins this game) is at least half the reasons players are scared.

Birddog
02-08-2014, 07:37 PM
Few didn't have a single rebound in this game.

cggonzaga
02-08-2014, 07:37 PM
We were up 10 with 5 minutes to go while being outrebounded by 15. Had nothing to do with us losing that lead.

gu03alum
02-08-2014, 07:37 PM
...leaving Coleman out of the lineup when going down by one with not one other Zag able to penetrate???? Also, can't understand why Barham was not in the final few possessions for the three ball. He's much better coming off the bench in terms of nailing the three.

Didn't Coleman come out because he attempted two contested long shots in a row. I know I was frustrated by his shot choice at that point in the game.

kclubfounder
02-08-2014, 07:37 PM
KC,

Come talk to me about my attitude after we've won 10 National championships.

Oh, so that's all it takes. Then you'll be OK with losing a few leads against good teams.

Seems like a reasonable attitude.

I stand corrected.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-08-2014, 07:37 PM
Exactly.

Bad rebounding cost this game. Offensive execution wasn't great in the closing minutes, but poor rebounding was the reason Memphis was even in the game to win at the end.

TacomaZAG
02-08-2014, 07:39 PM
I'm NOT......

Seen this movie way too many times. Outscored 17-2 to finish. It would have happened against Portland earlier in the week, we just have better athletes and were playing at home. We lose that game on the road or at a neutral site.

Nunez is the best athlete on the team, he gets 2 minutes tonight. The high/low is working great for 32 minutes, better ash can it for the final 8. Go from coaching really conservative to coaching suffocatingly conservative. The UCLA game all over again.

We better win the WCC tourney or there is no reason for the committee to put us in the dance. The Arkansas win isn't going to get us any love, and we haven't beaten anyone else.

This was our only chance this year to get a statement win, and we choked. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, again.

Go ZAGS

thespywhozaggedme
02-08-2014, 07:39 PM
Gary was rendered completely neutral by the more athletic Memphis team, and the ultra athletic Angel played two minutes. Why does Few feel the need to play the same guys regardless of performance? I dunno, I'm just perplexed.

Hokis
02-08-2014, 07:39 PM
I'm just curious. What was Mark Few's role in the 21 wins this season? No in-game adjusments?

What good coaches has he coached against this year??? We have 21 wins over cupcakes.. And BARELY escaped in like 5 of those..

Hell I can't remember the last time Few actually out-coached a quality opponent/coach

DixieZag
02-08-2014, 07:40 PM
When game after game the same players "play scared" but stay in the game, two questions come to mind: why are they scared and why are they still playing? The second question is completely the fault of the coach and I would argue Few's habit of benching players for making mistakes (and then forgetting about them for long stretches - see Coleman and Draingins this game) is at least half the reasons players are scared.

I think the players (and coach) have just heard so much about it that it's in their heads now. We came back against WVU - but, that was when Pangos was Pangos. It is VERY hard to over state how important that is to our season. BZ was right - Kevin's toe would determine the season, it hasn't looked good lately.

ZagNix
02-08-2014, 07:40 PM
I'm just curious. What was Mark Few's role in the 21 wins this season? No in-game adjusments?

Not that he has no in-game adjustments that are good, but usually he tightens up and shortens the bench when things get a little close and never has a killer instinct. Look who we beat in those 21 wins. Our talent alone should win those games. If we had any killer instinct tonight we would have own, and a coach should know how to motivate his players during a game.

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 07:40 PM
I don't understand why this is so difficult for people to understand - Coleman is 5 for 11 but sat on the bench for large parts of the second half while Bell was 1 for 5 and was in for most of the second half (not to mention that Coleman made more shots than our starting 3 guards COMBINED). When players aren't performing, it is the job of the coach to make a change. The coach is in charge of who is on the court. Keeping ineffective players on the court, which causes a loss, is the definition of being "out coached."

jpn17
02-08-2014, 07:40 PM
Didn't Coleman come out because he attempted two contested long shots in a row. I know I was frustrated by his shot choice at that point in the game.

One of Coleman's three point shots came with 4 seconds left on the shot clock after the ball had been worked around and players weren't putting up open shots. What's Coleman supposed to do in that situation? I like that Coleman took the initiative. I wish he would have made the shots, but at least he tried. I'll take that over shot clock violations because players are afraid to pull the trigger every time.

ZagNix
02-08-2014, 07:42 PM
What good coaches has he coached against this year??? We have 21 wins over cupcakes.. And BARELY escaped in like 5 of those..

Hell I can't remember the last time Few actually out-coached a quality opponent/coach

I agree. When was the last time Few out-coached a quality opponent/coach?

gu03alum
02-08-2014, 07:43 PM
Not that he has no in-game adjustments that are good, but usually he tightens up and shortens the bench when things get a little close and never has a killer instinct. Look who we beat in those 21 wins. Our talent alone should win those games. If we had any killer instinct tonight we would have own, and a coach should know how to motivate his players during a game.

Didn't KP and PK have a killer instinct against WVU?

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 07:43 PM
EXACTLY! You can't score points if you won't shoot and if the coach leaves in players who won't shoot, then yes, it is the coach's fault.

Rio Runner
02-08-2014, 07:43 PM
Gary was rendered completely neutral by the more athletic Memphis team, and the ultra athletic Angel played two minutes. Why does Few feel the need to play the same guys regardless of performance? I dunno, I'm just perplexed.

Because every couple years, Mark Few falls in love with a hustling player who is barely a D-1 basketball talent, and he gives them big minutes. Pierre Marie Altidor- Cespedes, Demetri Goodson, and now Gary Bell. It is Mark Few's greatest weakness as a coach.

Ekrub
02-08-2014, 07:43 PM
One of Coleman's three point shots came with 4 seconds left on the shot clock after the ball had been worked around and players weren't putting up open shots. What's Coleman supposed to do in that situation? I like that Coleman took the initiative. I wish he would have made the shots, but at least he tried. I'll take that over shot clock violations because players are afraid to pull the trigger every time.

+1 can't blame Coleman for that shot.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-08-2014, 07:44 PM
I would have like to see more of Barham when the offense stagnated. The officials were letting Memphis's bigger, stronger guards get away with a lot of contact while defending our guards. Our little guys couldn't break free to get a shot off or get the ball inside. Perhaps, a bigger, stronger wing could have helped out there. We needed some outside shots. We needed rebounds.

gu03alum
02-08-2014, 07:44 PM
One of Coleman's three point shots came with 4 seconds left on the shot clock after the ball had been worked around and players weren't putting up open shots. What's Coleman supposed to do in that situation? I like that Coleman took the initiative. I wish he would have made the shots, but at least he tried. I'll take that over shot clock violations because players are afraid to pull the trigger every time.

It was five seconds, and he had plenty of time to take it to the basket or make an extra pass.

Hokis
02-08-2014, 07:44 PM
I'm NOT......

Seen this movie way too many times. Outscored 17-2 to finish. It would have happened against Portland earlier in the week, we just have better athletes and were playing at home. We lose that game on the road or at a neutral site.

Nunez is the best athlete on the team, he gets 2 minutes tonight. The high/low is working great for 32 minutes, better ash can it for the final 8. Go from coaching really conservative to coaching suffocatingly conservative. The UCLA game all over again.

We better win the WCC tourney or there is no reason for the committee to put us in the dance. The Arkansas win isn't going to get us any love, and we haven't beaten anyone else.

This was our only chance this year to get a statement win, and we choked. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, again.

Go ZAGS


This!!!!!

At this point, it does us no good to even make the dance.. This team will never make a run under Few... We can all hope for a miracle or Cinderella run all we want, but that's the difference between a Gonzaga and a Butler or a Gonzaga and a Wichita State or VCU

Brad Stevens never had the best athletes but his teams won big games bc he out coached his opponent


Same goes for a lot of these mid majors

webspinnre
02-08-2014, 07:44 PM
Terrible offensive execution, and got outhustled to rebounds. I'm not sure how much of that I can blame on Few.

ZagHouse
02-08-2014, 07:45 PM
You can't out coach crowd noise in a hostile arena or halting a team's momentum. You can't out coach poor officiating either. Sure, you can call time outs and try to settle your players, but unless they execute, it's possible to lose tough games on the road. Our fourth loss so far this season. Aye de mi. Granted, would be nice to have sealed that win, but the guys will have to prove themselves the rest of the way...or not.

Anybody think Few is on the bench telling Bell not to shoot? Or to wait until time is running out on the shot clock before throwing up a shot. My only issue is I would have like to have seen Barham,towards the end....spread the floor, and make Memphis pay sagging on our bigs. Shades of Portland though. We don't have a big that can gobble up boards.

gamagin
02-08-2014, 07:45 PM
I hate Few but until we find a suitable replacement, he is with us for the long haul. I'm not sure he is entirely to blame tonight. He made a lot of poor substitution calls during the stretch which is on him but the team as a whole was completely sloppy. Memphis was also terrible tonight but came out on the better end of the deal.

said the genius who called for the coach to put in Coleman at one point in the game. And coleman was already in the game. Real astute, Shows how much you know w.t.f. is going on at any given time. I dub thee Hawkeye Blackbeard.

gobroncsgozags
02-08-2014, 07:45 PM
Few is great against cupcakes but tightens up against good opponents/coaches. It is evident in his play calling and substitutions, but especially evident in the demeanor of the players. The Zags lost for the same reason they lose in the first two rounds of the tournament every year.

CDC84
02-08-2014, 07:45 PM
Gary has to step up to the plate when Pangos isn't playing well. Didn't happen tonight.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-08-2014, 07:45 PM
I agree. When was the last time Few out-coached a quality opponent/coach?

Huggy Bear in the Big Dance?

CDC84
02-08-2014, 07:47 PM
The bottom line is that Gonzaga lost this game because they gave up 20 offensive rebounds. You just cannot do that and expect to win on the road against top 25 teams. It allowed Memphis and the crowd to hang around despite being awful on offense tonight.

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 07:47 PM
I'm just curious. What was Mark Few's role in the 21 wins this season? No in-game adjusments?

+1

It was all luck, I guess...

thespywhozaggedme
02-08-2014, 07:47 PM
I would never put Gary in the same sentence with those guys. PMac had no self confidence whatsoever, and Meech tried so hard, but just wasn't good enough at any one thing. Gary is one of the best 3 point shooters in the nation, but tends to disappear against more athletic competition. Angle, on the other hand is an athletic freak, yet barely played. I o agree that Few is too rigid with his lineups though.
Because every couple years, Mark Few falls in love with a hustling player who is barely a D-1 basketball talent, and he gives them big minutes. Pierre Marie Altidor- Cespedes, Demetri Goodson, and now Gary Bell. It is Mark Few's greatest weakness as a coach.

DixieZag
02-08-2014, 07:48 PM
Because every couple years, Mark Few falls in love with a hustling player who is barely a D-1 basketball talent, and he gives them big minutes. Pierre Marie Altidor- Cespedes, Demetri Goodson, and now Gary Bell. It is Mark Few's greatest weakness as a coach.

Barely a division one player?

I am so frustrated with him passing up open shots - - but this is a huge candidate for . . . , on a night chock full of . . . .

BTW - - I would sit Bell if he refused to shoot that beautiful - best in conference percentage his freshman year (a D-1) conference, his frosh year.

Bkzag
02-08-2014, 07:48 PM
Players passed up open shots so they could run out the shot clock. Not on few.


Live by the three, die by the three... Tonight we died by the three as we only made two...remember reading in a post tonight that if we shoot less than 33% behind the arc we lose.

Is GBJ alright as he wan't aggressive at all...know he had one shot blocked early and made a three but got into the lane several times and decided to pass. Anyone know if his hand is bothering him?

I always believed that the players win games and coaches lose games; however, Coach Few didn't lose this game. Think after GC stepped out of bounds on the baseline, Coach Few pulled him.

This was a tough game to play and especially lose since we had a 12pt lead in the second half...it is hard to win on the road. Maybe we can get'em back next year.

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 07:52 PM
Over the course of a season, you usually win some games you shouldn't and lose some games you should win. It happens. Some fans around here need to put on their big boy pants and learn how to deal with a loss by a dinged up GU team against a good, athletic team on the road.

Bkzag
02-08-2014, 07:52 PM
No he was telling them to guard and rebound...


Meanwhile we hadnt had a FG in like 6 minutes



Guard and rebound?????? C'mon Few.


We didn't guard well in the second half AND more importantly we didn't rebound worth a xxxx, which is why he said "Guard and Rebound." They had 20 offensive rebounds, -20- and we had a total of 28 rebounds...

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 07:53 PM
I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Few left Bell in and he continued to refuse to shoot. Meanwhile, Coleman and Nunez sit for a large part of the second half. If you need points and a player won't shoot it is the COACH'S job to put in a player who will shoot.

Coleman was ineffective in the second half and Nunez has almost zero offensive game. Barham, I suppose, might have helped but there is a pesky thing called defense to consider.

CDC84
02-08-2014, 07:53 PM
Gary was pretty much bottled up defensively by Dixon tonight, who is known for doing such things.

madness
02-08-2014, 07:53 PM
This game hurts a lot.

It truly would have been a classic road warrior win. BUT the coaching wasn't really good or bad. What we witnessed was truly a lack of making the hard decisions by the entire team tonight. Unfortunately, this is a quality that this 2013-14 team has. With Pangos hurt, there is no alpha player that can make his own shot and win or put away a game for you.

I think most of us already knew this, but this year's team needs to win the WCC tourney to go dancing. Plain and simple. The goal is reachable, but anything else will be amazing.

The coaching staff NEEDS to develop Wiltjer into the alpha dog next season and get Pangos healthy IMO...playing Pangos through the injury has been borderline irresponsible.

john montana
02-08-2014, 07:54 PM
This game didn't come down to coaching (and actually, our game plan and attack was pretty solid). We lost for two reasons.

1). We got MANHANDLED on the boards. Just flat out mauled.
2). GBJ played the worst game I have ever seen him play. Tentative on O, and he couldn't guard on D.

Gary plays an average game...we win. We hold our own on the boards...we win.

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 07:54 PM
Explain to me how sitting a player who will shoot and playing a player who won't shoot is the fault of the players. Obviously the players are responsible for their performance but it is the EXPLICIT job of the coach to put the players who are performing well on the floor (or at least give other players a CHANCE to perform).

CDC84
02-08-2014, 07:55 PM
I think most of us already knew this, but this year's team needs to win the WCC tourney to go dancing. Plain and simple. The goal is reachable, but anything else will be amazing.

Most of us don't believe this. Gonzaga is easily in right now. But it depends on how they perform on that final four game road trip. A win tonight would've given them more wiggle room and could've enhanced their seeding.

DixieZag
02-08-2014, 07:55 PM
Live by the three, die by the three... Tonight we died by the three as we only made two...remember reading in a post tonight that if we shoot less than 33% behind the arc we lose.

Is GBJ alright as he wan't aggressive at all...know he had one shot blocked early and made a three but got into the lane several times and decided to pass. Anyone know if his hand is bothering him?

I always believed that the players win games and coaches lose games; however, Coach Few didn't lose this game. Think after GC stepped out of bounds on the baseline, Coach Few pulled him.

This was a tough game to play and especially lose since we had a 12pt lead in the second half...it is hard to win on the road. Maybe we can get'em back next year.

Great post. Hard to win on the road when your best player is rendered a guy giving it all to just play D and get defensive rebound

Zagnailler
02-08-2014, 07:55 PM
Over the course of a season, you usually win some games you shouldn't and lose some games you should win. It happens. Some fans around here need to put on their big boy pants and learn how to deal with a loss by a dinged up GU team against a good, athletic team on the road.

Hear! Hear,! A voice of reason in the wilderness.

Hokis
02-08-2014, 07:56 PM
Coleman was ineffective in the second half and Nunez has almost zero offensive game. Barham, I suppose, might have helped but there is a pesky thing called defense to consider.

Nunez has zero offensive game? Seriously?


If Few actually gave him minutes you would see that he could be our best offensive player

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 07:56 PM
It DID come down to coaching. If Gary isn't playing well, WHY is he still on the floor while better performing (or even other players who haven't played much) are sitting on the bench (hint: that is up to the COACH)?

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 07:58 PM
Most people understand that losing happens. What people don't understand is how keeping ineffective players on the floor, which led to a loss, is the FAULT of the players.

2wiceright
02-08-2014, 07:58 PM
I hate Few but until we find a suitable replacement, he is with us for the long haul. I'm not sure he is entirely to blame tonight. He made a lot of poor substitution calls during the stretch which is on him but the team as a whole was completely sloppy. Memphis was also terrible tonight but came out on the better end of the deal.

I noticed you state you "Hate Few". Seriously Blackbeard, are you from the GAEL Board? I am almost positive I see someone with a similar name over there... Just Curious and an honest question....

Birddog
02-08-2014, 08:00 PM
Box score
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400496995

Zags got beat badly on the boards 44 to 28 with Memphis grabbing 20 O boards and Zags only 8. Zags shot 45% ,12% from 3 (2 made) and 46% at the line. Memphis shot 34%, 33% from 3(4 made) and 66% at the line. Numbers like that won't win many games, it's all Few's fault. Dower actually had a great game.

CDC84
02-08-2014, 08:01 PM
Gary isn't playing well, WHY is he still on the floor while better performing (or even other players who haven't played much) are sitting on the bench (hint: that is up to the COACH)?

GU isn't beating a team like Memphis without Gary's defense. He's by far and away the team's best defender. Both Crawford and Dixon (who he guarded) were never allowed to go off.

His lack of offensive output is disappointing, because it's really needed with Pangos' injuries.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-08-2014, 08:02 PM
Most of us don't believe this. Gonzaga is easily in right now. But it depends on how they perform on that final four game road trip. A win tonight would've given them more wiggle room and could've enhanced their seeding.

We are in for now, but our margin for error is thinner than usual, because we don't have a single quality non-conference win. I will feel far better if we can beat BYU and SMC on the road.

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 08:03 PM
So leaving in players who are performing poorly is the answer? You can make specious claims about "zero offensive game" and "pesky things called defense" but you have not idea how well Coleman, Nunez, and Barham would have done in THIS game because they played so little. What we do know is that our three starting guards played poorly (which is fine - that's sports) but our coach REFUSED to make a change, which makes him at fault.

Unbiased
02-08-2014, 08:03 PM
Coleman was ineffective in the second half and Nunez has almost zero offensive game. Barham, I suppose, might have helped but there is a pesky thing called defense to consider.

Coleman was ineffective?? Because he played little in the second half.

I'll say this, if Nunez played the last ten minutes of the game the Zags would have won. I would guarantee at least three rebounds. That's all we would have needed, even without him contributing on offense.

ZagLawGrad
02-08-2014, 08:03 PM
GU isn't beating a team like Memphis without Gary's defense. He's by far and away the team's best defender. Both Crawford and Dixon (who he guarded) were never allowed to go off.

His lack of offensive output is disappointing, because it's really needed with Pangos' injuries.

Bell's a good defender. But his lack of aggressiveness on the offensive end at times is a big hole in his game.

jazzdelmar
02-08-2014, 08:05 PM
Relax folks... They just aren't that good


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bingo, the voice of reason.

Unbiased
02-08-2014, 08:05 PM
Serious? That's your sixth post in 7 years? And that's what it is? Not sure what you would know what it is to be a coach.

So the more one posts, the more intelligent the answer?

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-08-2014, 08:06 PM
Box score
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400496995

Zags got beat badly on the boards 44 to 28 with Memphis grabbing 20 O boards and Zags only 8. Zags shot 45% ,12% from 3 (2 made) and 46% at the line. Memphis shot 34%, 33% from 3(4 made) and 66% at the line. Numbers like that won't win many games, it's all Few's fault. Dower actually had a great game.

That was an ugly box score for us. I credit Memphis's hustle for much of that. They rebounded really well. They were relentless about defending the three-point line.

Our free throw shooting had nothing to do with Memphis's play.

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 08:07 PM
That is an interesting claim but we have no way to test it because our coach REFUSED to make a change. What we do know is that even if his defense stopped his player, OTHER Memphis players made plays while we did nothing on offense (multiple double-digit to 2 runs). In this case, we needed someone who would take shots (you can't score if you don't shoot and our 3 starting guards only took 17 shots - had they made just over half that would still only be 20 points from 3 players) but Few REFUSED to put anyone else in for a decent period of time.

jpn17
02-08-2014, 08:07 PM
Most of us don't believe this. Gonzaga is easily in right now. But it depends on how they perform on that final four game road trip. A win tonight would've given them more wiggle room and could've enhanced their seeding.

I agree that as long as they don't go 0-4 over those road games they're in. They did however probably play their way out of Spokane with this loss. And that's really disappointing. The committee has never gone out of their way before to put Gonzaga in Spokane, I don't expect that they'll do it now.

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 08:12 PM
There is no point (now at least) in addressing claims like that. These posters have a pre-determined reason for why we lose when we lose - 100% the players. They don't see how illogical it is, after a LOSS, to say player shouldn't play because of some specious speculative effect that will cause us to lose while claiming a player who is not performing well MUST stay in the game or we will lose.

willandi
02-08-2014, 08:19 PM
What i don't understand, is why Mark Few is still coach? There are at least a dozen people, in this thread alone, that claim to know more than him!

Rbo
02-08-2014, 08:20 PM
I thought Few's rotation/substitutions were some of his best all year. Nunez was weak tonight. So was Barham. You only have so much to work with, and no one fouled out.

zagamatic
02-08-2014, 08:20 PM
It's true that Few wasn't the one allowing them to grab 20 offensive rebounds, but he didn't do anything about putting in guys who may have changed that. He could have pulled Stockton or Bell and put in Coleman or Nunez. They may make some mistakes, but Bell and Stockton were clearly not on their A game.
Yet again, I failed to see Few get after the refs despite having plentiful opportunities to do just that. BTW, this is something that all the truly elite coaches do, especially on the road.
And yet again, there was no specific play ran to take advantage of a player in foul trouble (Goodwin) or put a specific player in foul trouble (Jackson). Doing this may very well have taken back control of momentum and we escape with a quality win.
I will fully support coach in the respective fields of recruiting and player development as well as designing very good offensive strategy. But when it comes to being an in game coach, these are the types of things that will keep him from ever winning a national title unless he recruits players with these traits hard wired in already.
Not the first time that I have expressed MY OPINION on this. But I will also say that players are the only ones who are actually on the court and can make changes.

WRHUradio
02-08-2014, 08:20 PM
Not highly shocked, but surprised people are pinning this on Few....Actually I'm quite proud of the Zags being able to do what they did tonight with 1st shot defense and they surprised me with how effective they were down low with schemes and Sam Dower has turned into an awesome player, I wish they featured him even more, and mostly proud of PK, he was very difficult to handle for some of the AAU All-Stars Memphis has.

I think Few had a good scheme going with high lows and a very good defense, everything he set up for the players was spot on. I think its absurd for anyone to call him out.
Go watch more college basketball as in OTHER teams besides Gonzaga and look how terrible the coaching and organization is, and then watch Gonzaga. You'll change your tune.
The things that Few can't control- Rebounding and Dribble Driving success- were both player failures tonight, they usually arent but tonight they played a Super Athletic AAU BCS type team. Gonzaga does not have a Half-court breakdown guard vs these kinds of Teams (no Rivals.com studs) nor do they have a Beast Rebounder. Thus most 3's had to come off exceptional ball movement to be open and have feet set.

I will criticize one decision- Too much Stockton over Dranginis in the 2nd half. Dranginis can rebound more, looks to score more, more length and can defend more. I think THIS game needed more Dranginis.
Following up on pregame thoughts I had....

Great thread, I think everyone is being very fair and honest here.

Saying up front- I have not seen Memphis play this year, so this is all based on the Memphis-type team(s) Gonzaga has faced this year and what's happened in the past.

In no particular order, keys to success...
-Do not be afraid to attack the rim. Typically whenever the Zags have played these kinds of non-caucasian super athletic teams, they get a number of their shots blocked, and get discouraged. You have to keep attacking and not settle for taking contested tough jumpers, floaters and leaners. I always felt like the Zags more than other games always got intimidated by Memphis in the past shot blocking and dunking.
I think they were right in the middle, showed some fear of driving and didnt get to the FT line much. I didnt look at the Stats but Memphis prob had 10 blocks as you'd figure but I was happy that it overall didnt discourage or scare the Zags too much, they kept taking it inside rather than taking a lot of contested 2s.

-DEFENSIVE REBOUNDING. Anyone want to bet the Zags play zone 100%? Can they hold Memphis to 9 Offensive Rebounds and under? That would be a tremendous number.
Then it becomes about maniacal effort getting loose balls. I can already see Goodwin and others just cleaning up on the offensive glass. I think the Zags will be OK on first-shot defense. 2nd and 3rd chances is where I think Memphis can destroy them.
I wonder what Memphis fans think of their teams shot selection this year?
Amazed the Zags played SO MUCH MAN TO MAN!!! I bet if we looked at a Memphis-Zags tape from like 2006 that was all zone, Gonzaga was borderline excellent at man to man 1st shot defense! I dont need to look at the stats to know they gave up more than 8 Offensive Rebs though, especially since they played 90% man. This was a Killer, I would say the #1 Reason the Zags lost was because of Rebounding. First Shot Memphis FG% was probably like 35% or even lower, The Tigers couldnt do Jack vs a gonzaga man to man, who would've thought we would ever say that!

-David Stockton is a tremendous story, I've always felt that he is a solid and effective player against 85% and even up to 95% of the teams in the country annually. This looks like it could be one of those tough games where if it looks like he is turning it over and getting stuck in the lane getting swatted or not a threat from 3 then I think Few needs to have a quick hook with him. Nothing against David but in so many ways Dranginis/Nunez/Coleman might fit in better rather than Stockton playing 30 mins.
David is generally very poised with the ball but I'm not sure if he can finish in the lane vs Memphis as opposed to the other 3 and then defensively while he is very good at digging down and getting steals KD and Nunez' length might bring more consistent effectiveness.
Ugh, David. As much good as he does, his lack of shooting threat in these games at times really makes it difficult for the whole team. The Problem is Coleman drives you CRAZY with his decision-making, when to shoot, not shoot, what to shoot or attack. I think Few kept Stockton at a leash, in retrospect the one bad call I think Few may have made was too much Stockton over Dranginis in the 2nd half.
Floor spacing could be massive and I am wondering about Barham seeing some good minutes at the 3 as well for extending the defense. When David is on the floor except for how he just played vs Portland opponents see his 3pt % and his reputation and say "we're leaving you wide open you cant do 3-4 from 3 again, and you cant drive the lane to score vs our guys either" ......I think the way this principle idea is going has to be monitored by Few closely and then he makes a decision to go to the other guys at this spot for extended time.

Thinking about it more I think Barham could be a major difference maker, you hope he can shoot well here because he's played at Fedex, I'm sure is gonna be highly motivated, and you have to honor him and he stretches the floor and that makes Dower/PK better inside.
Piggybacking the point of No dribble-driver that can create for others, this made Barham nearly useless in this game. Fortunately Josh Perkins comes next year and maybe he is that guy. Pangos as we know not being 100% but even when healthy vs these kinds of teams he is not a between-the-circles start your drive-draw-a-double and kick-from the-paint-guy. Good move by Few not forcing Barham.

-Sam Dower Want him to also post inside and drive more as he did vs Portland and get to the line, he's an outstanding jump shooter but this cant be a game where Gonzaga attempts 50 jumpers and just 10 drives.
DOWER POWER. I think youre out of your mind if you dont appreciate how good he is, he shoots an awesome percentage from the field with tough moves, jumpers, FTs, folks I think Dower can play in the NBA on the offensive end Defensively unfortunately he may be in trouble. I wish they got him the ball more, Sam was aggressive, got positioning and finished and didnt settle for jumpers.

-PK I worry about him hanging his head after getting his shot blocked a couple times early, he needs his most physically intense and aggressive game. On the dump downs I love when he holds the ball high and makes quick decisions. I'm thinking Memphis will single-team him initially and then double when he puts the ball on the floor, so the number 1 key is PK getting quick deep position like Josh H and JP Batista always did (PK usually does too) and the guards getting him the ball super fast in the shot clock, PK will be able to shoot over their guys if he varies his moves and doesnt wait to do them before the double comes.
Thought he played tough mentally and physically. This guy is NOT soft, fortunately I think GU fans agree with me but I hope the rest of the country notices. He gets knocked down, embarassed on the blocked dunk, thrown down by Thug Woodson and Still fights back, gets his position and does damage. Today was a positive for PK, and it should show him that if he can ever improve his weaknesses (elevation-work to jump 3 more inches, FT shooting,) that PK can be a dominant College Basketball player.

-Giving up 5 dunks....Typically we remember Memphis always having like 5 dunks in the game, I feel like the team's energy cannot get sucked out, in the past I think even the best Zag teams got demoralized when seeing all these dunks. They have to be mentally tougher than any other game this year. This year's team has not playing the typically super tough OOC Zags teams do, so I'm not sure how ready they are for this.
Did not get demoralized due to dunks, did not give up 5 open floor jams while Raivio chases and watches. This team is pretty mentally tough. They are limited athletically compared to these kinds of times but have excellent basketball smarts and skills.

I think the Zags CAN win but will probably be 8pt underdogs in Vegas. A win at Memphis would be the best win of the season

If you're going to Criticize Few, ask yourself this question..with the personnel they have, is Few maxing out their potential? My answer is YES

caduceus
02-08-2014, 08:22 PM
Same old lurkers that come out only whenever there's a big loss.

http://i.imgur.com/AnJr2Q1.gif



http://i.imgur.com/AnJr2Q1.gif
http://i.imgur.com/AnJr2Q1.gif

http://i.imgur.com/AnJr2Q1.gif




http://i.imgur.com/omSwnDb.jpg

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 08:23 PM
Coleman was ineffective?? Because he played little in the second half.

I'll say this, if Nunez played the last ten minutes of the game the Zags would have won. I would guarantee at least three rebounds. That's all we would have needed, even without him contributing on offense.

You must ask yourself why he played so little in the second half. I saw a guy who made some bone-head decisions.

On the second part, if my uncle had breasts he would be my aunt. I'm not sure how you can guarantee anything. In those same 10 minutes he could just as easily have also taken ill-advised shots, turned the ball over, made stupid fouls, gotten out of good defensive position, etc.

Baseline
02-08-2014, 08:24 PM
Several things stand out in my mind tonight.
1) Shen can play with big athletic guys and his offensive game continues to grow. More upside to come!

2) Bell has played horrible of late, maybe a spot on the bench will get his head straight. I don't understand the concept of being scared to shoot. If that is true no one should play D-1 ball with those thoughts.

3) Pangos is so ineffectual being hurt its best to play others and let him heal.

4) Why can't we get the ball inside. We have to dominating bigs that just don't get the ball.

5) This is not a good shooting team, I'm tired of hearing it. They disappear for games, usually when its someone good, but shoot the lights out against weak opponents. That's not what a Good shooting team does.

6) This teams problems are more mental than physical.

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 08:27 PM
And that's the point. All these people rushing to defend Few and put all the blame on the players are using the reason of, "without X player, we would have lost because Y player can't shoot, play defense, etc." Those speculations are useless. The only thing we know is that some players performed poorly and our coach REFUSED to take them out of the game for any meaningful period of time.

Oregonzagnut
02-08-2014, 08:27 PM
Few coached like he always does. He is conservative and he goes with the best 5 according to Few. Stocktons 2 points and getting abused on defense was predictable. But Gonzaga didn't rebound and we knew Memphis was more athletic and would pressure us. But our surgical offense almost won this going to Dower and Karno only and Stockton had 4 assists.

Pangos going cold from on the road was the clincher, with rebounding being the 2nd biggest issue. He had that problem last year and it is not about turf toe. We had the game, and now that Few has chosen his starters, we need to just put out a physical, focussed team every game from here on our. Play 40 minutes, play hard and play smart. We had 2-3 very untimely turnovers too.

I am usually critical of Fews rotation but this game Memphis won and they just manhandled us on the boards.

Unbiased
02-08-2014, 08:28 PM
I thought Few's rotation/substitutions were some of his best all year. Nunez was weak tonight. So was Barham. You only have so much to work with, and no one fouled out.

I'm curious. Could you explain how you saw their weakness. I'd guess neither played more than a couple minutes.

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 08:28 PM
Nunez has zero offensive game? Seriously?


If Few actually gave him minutes you would see that he could be our best offensive player

He can jump high and shoot free throws. Have often have you seen him create his own shot, back a guy down in the post, or break a guy down off the dribble? He is 1/5 from 3-point range. I believe he has zero assists. I like the kid, and he brings some unique things to the table, but he isn't even our 7th best offensive player.

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 08:29 PM
Nobody is saying Few shouldn't be a coach. People are just tired of the pre-determined, "every loss is 100% the fault of the players because Few coached a MASTERPIECE" statements. Some players played poorly but it was Few who REFUSED to take them out for a meaningful period of time and try something different.

jpn17
02-08-2014, 08:30 PM
3) Pangos is so ineffectual being hurt its best to play others and let him heal.


At this point it's too late. Turf toe is an injury that lingers sometimes for several months. Sitting Pangos for a week or two won't make any difference. He's gonna be dealing with it for the rest of the season.

Hoopaholic
02-08-2014, 08:31 PM
You must ask yourself why he played so little in the second half. I saw a guy who made some bone-head decisions.

On the second part, if my uncle had breasts he would be my aunt. I'm not sure how you can guarantee anything. In those same 10 minutes he could just as easily have also taken ill-advised shots, turned the ball over, made stupid fouls, gotten out of good defensive position, etc.

not being sarcastic...when did nunez make bonehead mistakes...my memory (and yes I am getting old) only had him in for less than about a minute...he made one mistake by not rotating weakside to ball side to stop a dunk.....I dont remember any other "bonehead" decisions.....

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 08:33 PM
You can't win if you won't shoot. Even with their rebound margin the game would have been very different had we put-up more shots (even if we make them at the same 45% average). Our starting three guards took 17 shots. If they make 45% of those shots that is still only 24 points (we'll say they were all threes) MAXIMUM from three players. We lost, in large part, because we stopped shooting for large stretches and our coach REFUSED to put-in players who were willing to shoot (or even players who hadn't played much).

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 08:33 PM
not being sarcastic...when did nunez make bonehead mistakes...my memory (and yes I am getting old) only had him in for less than about a minute...he made one mistake by not rotating weakside to ball side to stop a dunk.....I dont remember any other "bonehead" decisions.....

"Boneheaded" was in reference to Coleman.

Unbiased
02-08-2014, 08:35 PM
You must ask yourself why he played so little in the second half. I saw a guy who made some bone-head decisions.

On the second part, if my uncle had breasts he would be my aunt. I'm not sure how you can guarantee anything. In those same 10 minutes he could just as easily have also taken ill-advised shots, turned the ball over, made stupid fouls, gotten out of good defensive position, etc.

I must have been watching a different game. Please tell me what bonehead plays Coleman made in the second half? I saw one turnover. What other bonehead plays did you see?

I'll say it again, three rebounds would have made the difference.

Hoopaholic
02-08-2014, 08:35 PM
"Boneheaded" was in reference to Coleman.

ahhh sorry..... I remember his baseline drive stepping on end line....

drvenkman05
02-08-2014, 08:38 PM
Hey, in the world of the "it's always 100% the fault of the players" posters, losing a game because certain players wouldn't take shots is ALWAYS BETTER than playing other players because Few is NEVER wrong. I know that statement was grammatically terrible but it is an accurate reflection of the argument of "don't make changes and take a loss because of what may possibly happen if you make a change."

Hoopaholic
02-08-2014, 08:39 PM
Hey, in the world of the "it's always 100% the fault of the players" posters, losing a game because certain players wouldn't take shots is ALWAYS BETTER than playing other players because Few is NEVER wrong. I know that statement was grammatically terrible but it is an accurate reflection of the argument of "don't make changes and take a loss because of what may possibly happen if you make a change."

so who would you have played to shoot the outside shots?

LegacyZag
02-08-2014, 08:41 PM
This is such a classic thread after a loss. The Few haters come out of the woodwork.

The truth of the matter is some people will always dislike him no matter what he does, similar to the Stockton syndrome we have seen here as well.

I think the biggest issue has already been stated in the thread. With Pangos hobbled, we have no one to take and make the big shot under pressure. The Pangos that we saw in Maui looked unstoppable.

Ekrub
02-08-2014, 08:43 PM
You must ask yourself why he played so little in the second half. I saw a guy who made some bone-head decisions.

On the second part, if my uncle had breasts he would be my aunt. I'm not sure how you can guarantee anything. In those same 10 minutes he could just as easily have also taken ill-advised shots, turned the ball over, made stupid fouls, gotten out of good defensive position, etc.

Your uncle does have breasts. I'm not sure how big they are, but I can almost assure you they are there.

montanazag88
02-08-2014, 08:45 PM
so who would you have played to shoot the outside shots?

Barham should have been in the last four offensive possessions. Coleman should have been in the last four or five. He's the only one to break down the defense at that point in the game. That is playing the odds.

Hoopaholic
02-08-2014, 08:46 PM
agree

caduceus
02-08-2014, 08:47 PM
Nunez has all of 55 minutes of play time from 2011-2012 with L'ville, zero from last year, and has logged 115 minutes of play this season. In comparison, Dranginis has 343 minutes from last year, and 643 minutes this year.

He has a TON of potential, but he's basically a freshman when it comes to experience. Few and Co. know this.

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 08:48 PM
I must have been watching a different game. Please tell me what bonehead plays Coleman made in the second half? I saw one turnover. What other bonehead plays did you see?

I'll say it again, three rebounds would have made the difference.

I have to agree that, all else being the same, 3 extra rebounds would have made the difference. The point I was making is that there are too many other unknowns to say that all else would have been the same.

As for Coleman, he turned the ball over, jumped a passing lane and missed (allowing an easy bucket), made a reach in the lane that resulted in two free throws, took an ill-advised 3 pointer (and missed), and forced an awkward shot (and missed). I am a Coleman fan, but for as awesome he was in the first half, he was as bad in the 2nd.

bballbeachbum
02-08-2014, 08:51 PM
This is such a classic thread after a loss. The Few haters come out of the woodwork.

The truth of the matter is some people will always dislike him no matter what he does, similar to the Stockton syndrome we have seen here as well.

I think the biggest issue has already been stated in the thread. With Pangos hobbled, we have no one to take and make the big shot under pressure. The Pangos that we saw in Maui looked unstoppable.

cheers to you man :cheers:

no one on the GU team can create their own shot. Kevin was looking like that guy in Maui and more but that's not the reality now. Gary is the new target du jour for some of the faithful

:vomit-smiley-007:

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 08:52 PM
No worries. I should have been clearer.

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 08:56 PM
Your uncle does have breasts. I'm not sure how big they are, but I can almost assure you they are there.

Ah yes. You got me on a technicality ;] The original saying references t!ts, but I was trying to keep this G-rated.

caduceus
02-08-2014, 08:58 PM
The lead ref, John Higgins, appears to be bad luck for us. The only games he's reffed us were the Wichita St. game last year, the Memphis nailbiter loss in Spokane in 2011, and the beatdown game against NC in the Tourney a few years back.

Not laying blame, but this guy appears to be kryptonite for us. Thought he looked familiar.

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 09:02 PM
The lead ref, John Higgins, appears to be bad luck for us. The only games he's reffed us were the Wichita St. game last year, the Memphis nailbiter loss in Spokane in 2011, and the beatdown game against NC in the Tourney a few years back.

Not laying blame, but this guy appears to be kryptonite for us.

Thanks for the knowledge bomb. What a very depressing trip down memory lane, to boot. You and others have been quick to reference refs of past games, is there an easy way to research that?

caduceus
02-08-2014, 09:05 PM
Thanks for the knowledge bomb. What a very depressing trip down memory lane, to boot. You and others have been quick to reference refs of past games, is there an easy way to research that?

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/

Also the boxscores on statsheet show the refs involved. Easier to find them from there.

JPtheBeasta
02-08-2014, 09:07 PM
http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/

Also the boxscores on statsheet show the refs involved. Easier to find them from there.

Much obliged. Thanks.

Birddog
02-08-2014, 09:08 PM
Memphis made 5 more FT's than the Zags attempted. Mem 18/27, Zags 6/13. It happens.

Mantua
02-08-2014, 09:23 PM
I would have like to see more of Barham when the offense stagnated. The officials were letting Memphis's bigger, stronger guards get away with a lot of contact while defending our guards. Our little guys couldn't break free to get a shot off or get the ball inside. Perhaps, a bigger, stronger wing could have helped out there. We needed some outside shots. We needed rebounds.

We haven't seen much of DB lately. Considering the way Memphis was defending our guards, DB probably wouldn't be allowed his set shot. I still wonder if there is another reason DB isn't playing much.

Hoopaholic
02-08-2014, 09:27 PM
We haven't seen much of DB lately. Considering the way Memphis was defending our guards, DB probably wouldn't be allowed his set shot. I still wonder if there is another reason DB isn't playing much.

At about the 12 min mark after a timeout Memphis adjusted to take away the high low action by bringing ball side player to the paint leaving baseline 3 shot wide open I kept screaming at tv for barham substitute as that is where he excels

gamagin
02-08-2014, 09:30 PM
+1


Memphis made 5 more FT's than the Zags attempted. Mem 18/27, Zags 6/13. It happens.

We held their star guard (Jackson?) to five pts -- until he got 5 more at the f.t. Line after recklessly crashing through the middle like a fullback and getting the automatic whistle & trip to the line. Maddening. I think he came in averaging around 16-17 ppg if I heard it correctly in the preface. It was also noted that he had been shut out the last time we played them.

DS kept him locked down pretty well when he was on him. And this fella could also be credited with drawing at least two faux fouls at DS' expense. I still think the much ballyhooed Shem block, while noteworthy, was a foul. PK's right hand was hit in the process. Would love to see it again, but it was shown numerous times during the game and seems clear to me there was a swipe move on shem's right hand as part of the block. Fwiw, shem's going to have to start stuffing hard on plays like that just to put emphasis on the danger to others of trying that in the future.

2wiceright
02-08-2014, 09:31 PM
Few stayed with Stockton too long once Memphis started pressure. Memphis used their athleticism to rattle us and it worked. We lost our composure and it slipped. Few does what he does and there is a reason Stockton fouled out.

But Pangos going cold is an issue. Why is this?

You're smart enough to know the answer to that. He's been shooting a paltry 25 % from 3 since he's been injured, save one or two games where the other team left him wide open and plenty of time to shoot. There's really no mystery here. Did you watch him play during the Maui Tourney??? He was almost unstoppable before injury, and had made a huge jump from last years Kevin. Sorry Oregon, didn't intend to be a smart ass, but I can't believe how short memories are....

Ekrub
02-08-2014, 09:37 PM
Ah yes. You got me on a technicality ;] The original saying references t!ts, but I was trying to keep this G-rated.

Haha trying to lighten the mood.

SteelZag
02-08-2014, 09:38 PM
Offensive rebounding! Weird that we had 20 ORB against WSU. Of course they realized they could not get the ball inside and hoisted up some shots they could possibly make. The most common theme seems to suggest players won't pull the trigger given the opportunity and that is my major complaint. In my view Jackson's block of Shem's shot was caused by Dower giving up a wide open three and securing the extrapass to allow PK to get stuffed by a 6 footer. Everybody in the know seems to swear that some have the green light to shoot at any time, although watching games seems to suggest there is an effort to get the ball into our dominant bigs at any cost. If our 1/2 court offense can't get the ball into the paint within 15 seconds they may as well just stop play and give every one a breather, give opposition ball and regroup for D. Count me in as put somebody in that will shoot.

demian
02-08-2014, 09:38 PM
Love this post by you jpn17


One of Coleman's three point shots came with 4 seconds left on the shot clock after the ball had been worked around and players weren't putting up open shots. What's Coleman supposed to do in that situation? I like that Coleman took the initiative. I wish he would have made the shots, but at least he tried. I'll take that over shot clock violations because players are afraid to pull the trigger every time.

ZagaZags
02-08-2014, 09:39 PM
Value in insight is built up in a community over time. Those who take the time to share their thoughts, build a record that has value. Those who throw bombs only destroy.

Kinda like a Karnowski free throw or 3 pt shot.

2wiceright
02-08-2014, 09:40 PM
What i don't understand, is why Mark Few is still coach? There are at least a dozen people, in this thread alone, that claim to know more than him!

EXACTLY, LOL...

caduceus
02-08-2014, 09:43 PM
Kinda like a Karnowski free throw or 3 pt shot.

http://i.imgur.com/3Q2Mb.gif

demian
02-08-2014, 09:45 PM
I would agree with that



This game didn't come down to coaching (and actually, our game plan and attack was pretty solid). We lost for two reasons.

1). We got MANHANDLED on the boards. Just flat out mauled.
2). GBJ played the worst game I have ever seen him play. Tentative on O, and he couldn't guard on D.

Gary plays an average game...we win. We hold our own on the boards...we win.

caduceus
02-08-2014, 09:47 PM
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3977687/6foottalle.gif

Ouch...agree, pivotal moment. Karno's got soft hands, but that's not always a good thing.

bballbeachbum
02-08-2014, 09:48 PM
I would agree with that

me too. he's all of the sudden trying to do all of this other stuff with his game he's not been doing before, just over the last couple of games, and there's a reason he plays the way he always has evidently imo

Hoopaholic
02-08-2014, 09:49 PM
2 plays later we have a three point shot block leading to run out layup that also was huge play

billyberu
02-08-2014, 09:49 PM
This attitude is what is worst about GUB, thinking you can dismiss someone who makes a comment like OP did just because they have few posts. It may have been a rash post, but don't get all high and mighty because you have 1,000+ posts.

It's not rash, it's trolling. Nothing noble about it nor is your defense of this pest.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Mantua
02-08-2014, 09:50 PM
At about the 12 min mark after a timeout Memphis adjusted to take away the high low action by bringing ball side player to the paint leaving baseline 3 shot wide open I kept screaming at tv for barham substitute as that is where he excels
That's why I brought up DB's remarkable absence. Maybe there's a reason. I have some concern about the three point guard lineup. In some ways it limits all three guards, especially since our bigs aren't so great defending. Shem's size is a big advantage, but it would be more of an advantage with a touch more agility.

zagapotomus
02-08-2014, 09:53 PM
It's not rash, it's trolling. Nothing noble about it nor is your defense of this pest.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

I'm not defending OP's post, I know it lacked substance. I have a problem with people using their post number/seniority to push other member's opinions below their own. This isn't the first time.

Mantua
02-08-2014, 09:56 PM
http://i.imgur.com/3Q2Mb.gif

Cad, you're a genius with the graphics. I always appreciate that.

billyberu
02-08-2014, 10:00 PM
Over the course of a season, you usually win some games you shouldn't and lose some games you should win. It happens. Some fans around here need to put on their big boy pants and learn how to deal with a loss by a dinged up GU team against a good, athletic team on the road.

This.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

caduceus
02-08-2014, 10:01 PM
Cad, you're a genius with the graphics. I always appreciate that.

http://i.imgur.com/P7Suhik.gif

2wiceright
02-08-2014, 10:08 PM
I'm sure his poor jump was in NO way affected by the hard foul he took a few minutes earlier.

You said you're sure? How does that work???

billyberu
02-08-2014, 10:22 PM
I'm not defending OP's post, I know it lacked substance. I have a problem with people using their post number/seniority to push other member's opinions below their own. This isn't the first time.

Someone who has a handful of posts over several years with nothing but anger and bitterness is a troll. The volume of this troll's posts is relevant and he has been called out on it. Correctly so IMHO.
I loathe whiny people who can't deal with the normal up and downs of sports.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

ZagaZags
02-08-2014, 10:29 PM
29-5 is very possible. Not a bad season. Maybe we can catch lightning in a bottle in march.

zagapotomus
02-08-2014, 10:34 PM
Someone who has a handful of posts over several years with nothing but anger and bitterness is a troll. The volume of this troll's posts is relevant and he has been called out on it. Correctly so IMHO.
I loathe whiny people who can't deal with the normal up and downs of sports.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Check OP's posts, nothing negative about the zags at all until this post.

billyberu
02-08-2014, 10:42 PM
Check OP's posts, nothing negative about the zags at all until this post.

The point remains that there are an awful lot of grown men who behave like whiny fan boys after a loss.

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zagapotomus
02-08-2014, 10:48 PM
The point remains that there are an awful lot of grown men who behave like whiny fan boys after a loss.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

I completely agree!

ZagaZags
02-08-2014, 10:59 PM
The point remains that there are an awful lot of grown men who behave like whiny fan boys after a loss.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

I am fine with the loss I never expected them to win. 29-5 is going to be a great record heading into March Madness.
Maybe we expect too much from the team this season and get frustrated. I think the Zags could win a few games in March Madness.

cggonzaga
02-08-2014, 11:27 PM
The point remains that there are an awful lot of grown men who behave like whiny fan boys after a loss.#

And an awful lot of grown men whining about other grown men whining about a loss.

Oregonzagnut
02-08-2014, 11:40 PM
If the game is in Spokane, we win by 15. We are a better team, but they are more athletic, faster and can jump higher. When thei guard blocks Karno's dunk, you know those guys got some hops.

We barely lost to a ranked team on the road. Now we just have to win out and we can if we play hard all 40 minutes.

ZagaZags
02-08-2014, 11:42 PM
And an awful lot of grown men whining about other grown men whining about a loss.

OMG, have you ever laughed so hard your beverage comes out your nose? I hate it when that happens. I blame you Cggonzaga. Funny stuff. :)

demian
02-08-2014, 11:53 PM
very funny


OMG, have you ever laughed so hard your beverage comes out your nose? I hate it when that happens. I blame you Cggonzaga. Funny stuff. :)

billyberu
02-08-2014, 11:55 PM
And an awful lot of grown men whining about other grown men whining about a loss.

You suffer so.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

zagfan1
02-09-2014, 12:01 AM
Few tried to hold on with his preferred lineup and they couldn't make any plays. They were running their offense and no one wanted to take a shot or drive to the hoop. To their credit, Memphis defense figured things out and Few did not make the necessary changes in personnel to swing the momentum in their favor. Sometimes I wonder if Few remembers what he did in the first half? Shem did great and so did Coleman. Stockton played decent and Dower played Pretty good too. Pangos, Draginnis, and Bell stunk things up.

jim77
02-09-2014, 12:28 AM
Shoulda won this one. Some things here......Few should have opened in zone defense.....Memphis's half court offense ain't good. DS handles big games better than any of the other guards. Pangos should play less because he's not better than KD when he's hurt. We are better when we play big. Good learning game...and good to see our bigs give Memphis fits......when the stars are right, we can beat anyone.....except the cuse.

ZagsGoZags
02-09-2014, 01:02 AM
Gary has to step up to the plate when Pangos isn't playing well. Didn't happen tonight.
this

Zagger
02-09-2014, 01:50 AM
Hopefully the whole of the Zags (coach too) can learn a few things from this game and move on. Someone wins and someone loses. For the manner in which I view good basketball I lost respect for Memphis. I hope the Zags can find a better non-WCC team to begin a series with. When it comes to how the Zags performed in this game. They lost. Particular players for one reason or another did not cut it (did not get shots off). Few also did not cut it (did not have the right mix of players on the floor in the last 10 minutes). But .... I like how Few coaches. I like the fact that Few sticks with his starters. To me it means he values his players more than he values a win (at least that's the way I see it). I think that is an honorable trait. What can go wrong with that is that the team, the players - all of them including the starters, may value a win more than they value their own playing time or the respect that Few shows them. I hope I'm making some sense here. Few runs an admirable program but it can be a frustrating one for Zag fans and I suspect for some of the Zags as well. There's a fine line in all of this. If coach had made substitutions of Coleman, Drew or Angel late and won the game what would it have done in the long run for how well Gary or Kevin or Kyle play? On the flip side, if a player is stuck on the floor and not being effective, what does it do for their own confidence of their own abilities? In my mind anyway - there's a lot going on in the mind of a coach. Sure, winning is great but is winning everything? Memphis won the game but are they winners? When players take cheap shots at other players, one gets caught and ejected, and that type of play/mentality contributes to a win - how good is that win? How good do those players feel about themselves and how long will that feeling last?

All in all I'm proud of the Zags for the way they play and I'm proud of Few too. No one is perfect though. There is room for improvement. I can only hope that Few looks at it this way as well - as in, how can we/I improve. 21-4 isn't a shabby win/loss record. The Zags should be 22-3 but that's not the way it turned out. Poo happens. Time to heal wounds in spirit and flesh, learn from this game and move on. The Mrs. and I will be in Vegas for the tournament and I'm sure we're going to have a good emotional workout. That's college basketball and that's the Zags. I'm glad we have the opportunity to be fans of such a good college basketball program. Go Zags!

jazzdelmar
02-09-2014, 03:18 AM
I thought Stocks n Dower were exceptional, Shem was good but shld not have been put back in so soon after fall and Coleman scored 12 but gave away nearly as many. Bells worst zag game, and KP and KD were mediocre as was staff. Had the all too familiar look and feel and outcome of a round of 32 affair. Most distressing of all is the apparent fear all the players save KP and DS have for risking a shot in a key clutch moment.

kitzbuel
02-09-2014, 03:57 AM
I thought Stocks n Dower were exceptional, Shem was good but shld not have been put back in so soon after fall and Coleman scored 12 but gave away nearly as many. Bells worst zag game, and KP and KD were mediocre as was staff. Had the all too familiar look and feel and outcome of a round of 32 affair. Most distressing of all is the apparent fear all the players save KP and DS have for risking a shot in a key clutch moment.

Jazz, I think you have touched on a key issue. KP and DS are the two players who can actually run the offense right now. They are also the two with the best mentality needed to put the team on their shoulders. For this team to work, one of them has to be directing the offense and, when all else fails, create some sort of shot.

GBJ can bring the ball up the court, but he has to pass it off to one of them and then start working within the offensive movement to 'hunt' his shot.

Barham is a pure spot up shooter. He needs to have a planned offensive set run that leaves him sitting in a good spot to shot.

Coleman can drive and penetrate better than anyone on the team, but if that is shut down he tends to flounder on the perimeter. He defers to Stockton or Kevin to get the offense running and create his angles.

With Kevin's injury right now, he has lost his ability to breakdown defenses on the fly while running the offense. He is really now limited to being another spot up shooter.

So with that, the Zags become very limited at the PG position. KP's injury is debilitating for the whole team offense, especially when they hit times when DS struggles.

You can mix in all kinds of other player combinations, but all you are really doing is swapping out accessories when it is the engine that is underpowered.

Given even that, it is still a good to very good team. The Zags are better than some 90% of the other teams in the nation even when running with a badly tuned engine.

Pastner4Prez
02-09-2014, 04:43 AM
Shoulda won this one. Some things here......Few should have opened in zone defense.....Memphis's half court offense ain't good. DS handles big games better than any of the other guards. Pangos should play less because he's not better than KD when he's hurt. We are better when we play big. Good learning game...and good to see our bigs give Memphis fits......when the stars are right, we can beat anyone.....except the cuse.

We play good halfcourt O. We just stunk it up last night. Don't get it twisted off of one game

WallaWallaZag
02-09-2014, 05:04 AM
I thought Stocks n Dower were exceptional, Shem was good but shld not have been put back in so soon after fall and Coleman scored 12 but gave away nearly as many. Bells worst zag game, and KP and KD were mediocre as was staff. Had the all too familiar look and feel and outcome of a round of 32 affair. Most distressing of all is the apparent fear all the players save KP and DS have for risking a shot in a key clutch moment.

dranginis took a big shot...but he missed it. it is alarming that when things get tight the whole team turns to pangos to make something happen, especially late in the clock...he's just not capable right now. dower appears to be the best option but he can't create his own shot. bell is a big disappointment to me because i believe it is in him to do better... i remember a game against ohio state where bell almost single handed kept the zags in the game, so i don't buy the fear of big game theory that some are throwing out.

bartruff1
02-09-2014, 05:06 AM
This is such a classic thread after a loss. The Few haters come out of the woodwork.

The truth of the matter is some people will always dislike him no matter what he does, similar to the Stockton syndrome we have seen here as well.

I think the biggest issue has already been stated in the thread. With Pangos hobbled, we have no one to take and make the big shot under pressure. The Pangos that we saw in Maui looked unstoppable.

I think that pretty much sums up this thread and the season and hopefully ends the " you don't have enough posts to know what you are talking about" nonsense.

Blackbeard
02-09-2014, 05:32 AM
I noticed you state you "Hate Few". Seriously Blackbeard, are you from the GAEL Board? I am almost positive I see someone with a similar name over there... Just Curious and an honest question....

Nah man, I grew up in Spokane. Hate is a strong word but I strongly dislike the guy. Hard being a zags fan since I moved to the east coast so I jumped into the forums. As some have pointed out, I watch all the games thru the streams that you guys provide so thank you very much.

WallaWallaZag
02-09-2014, 05:38 AM
Nah man, I grew up in Spokane. Hate is a strong word but I strongly dislike the guy. Hard being a zags fan since I moved to the east coast so I jumped into the forums. As some have pointed out, I watch all the games thru the streams that you guys provide so thank you very much.

i'm not exactly a huge mark few fan myself, but i really doubt the zags could do better...same way as it's unrealistic to expect 5 star mickey d's to come to gonzaga, there's no way coach k comes knocking either. butler hit the lotto with brad stevens but he's in the nba now and butler is struggling big time...not sure same wouldn't happen to the zags, though on a personal level i'd like to see tommy get his shot eventually.

Blackbeard
02-09-2014, 05:59 AM
i'm not exactly a huge mark few fan myself, but i really doubt the zags could do better...same way as it's unrealistic to expect 5 star mickey d's to come to gonzaga, there's no way coach k comes knocking either. butler hit the lotto with brad stevens but he's in the nba now and butler is struggling big time...not sure same wouldn't happen to the zags, though on a personal level i'd like to see tommy get his shot eventually.

I totally agree. The talent pool for quality NCAA coaches is limited at best and Gonzaga's location and conference further limits their opportunities. Coach Few is okay but find me someone better who is willing to coach the zags... crickets. cheers.

bigblahla
02-09-2014, 06:52 AM
Ignorance is such a powerful tool for the ...........................ignorant.

Really justifies anything and everything they say. No rhyme or reason just unadulterated intoxicating ignorance.

Few didn't box out.....he didn't rebound......he didn't score and his "D" sucked....oh wait .....he didn't play but......he didn't put in the right players...he didn't.... he just didn't... I know because... because....I'm a fan and I know best......nothing like a good cup of coffee and a hearty helping of ignorance first thing in the morning.

For all those here committed to the idea this loss is on Mark Few: If you were to ask any player on the TEAM how Mark Few lost this game for Gonzaga what do you think their answer would be? I think every one of them would look at you like you're nuts.

Hmmmmm? Committed....nuts? Yep this place turns into somewhat of an asylum after a loss with the resident crazies taking over...... :rolleyes:

Damn that Mark Few how could he lose that game.

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!

cjm720
02-09-2014, 07:08 AM
The toe factor and lack of go to scorer ( other than dower ) is prevalent. We played well just got a bit scared at the end and many teams feast on it. It was ours to win yet Memphis fought harder.

Fun game the wrong guys won.

BigTymeONIONS
02-09-2014, 07:57 AM
The only guy I have the problem with not playing much is Barham. He's a big wing that can shoot, something that could have been beneficial last night. At least maybe he could have been a threat when Memphis was determined to not let the ball inside.

Coleman literally doesn't pass. Can't have him in down the stretch.

Angel maybe could have been used more but you're not gonna sub for Dower or Karno late in the game. Could he have gotten some rebounds? Yes, but it was 52-43 with 5 minutes left while getting out rebounded by 15. Rebounding wasn't the issue.

My biggest problem is the offensive sets out of those last two timeouts. Can't put it all on Few because the players have to do it on the court but it's not a new thing to struggle out of timeouts late. Also stopping the high low action. Why did it all of the sudden disappear? Whenever the lead was stretched to 9 or 10 it was because Dower and Karno were getting the ball inside and finishing. Dower last shot with 5 minutes left. He was 9 of 12 and they couldn't get it to him down low when it mattered.

Ezag
02-09-2014, 08:02 AM
Ignorance is such a powerful tool for the ...........................ignorant.

Really justifies anything and everything they say. No rhyme or reason just unadulterated intoxicating ignorance.

Few didn't box out.....he didn't rebound......he didn't score and his "D" sucked....oh wait .....he didn't play but......he didn't put in the right players...he didn't.... he just didn't... I know because... because....I'm a fan and I know best......nothing like a good cup of coffee and a hearty helping of ignorance first thing in the morning.

For all those here committed to the idea this loss is on Mark Few: If you were to ask any player on the TEAM how Mark Few lost this game for Gonzaga what do you think their answer would be? I think every one of them would look at you like you're nuts.

Hmmmmm? Committed....nuts? Yep this place turns into somewhat of an asylum after a loss with the resident crazies taking over...... :rolleyes:

Damn that Mark Few how could he lose that game.

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!


It's because Few couldn't shake that defender and hit the game tying shot...he's too old, slow and white....Damn Few!!!

Reborn
02-09-2014, 08:10 AM
GU isn't beating a team like Memphis without Gary's defense. He's by far and away the team's best defender. Both Crawford and Dixon (who he guarded) were never allowed to go off.

His lack of offensive output is disappointing, because it's really needed with Pangos' injuries.

Did you turn your tv off in the last five minutes last night, CDC? Dixon was almost solely responsible for defeating the Zags, with Gary on him. Sorry!!!!

HenneZag
02-09-2014, 08:26 AM
The team takes on the identity of the coach. It's hard to argue that we can do better than FEW but history shows we just don't close out games on the big stage. I hate to mention this, but UCLA in the tourney, Wich St, Memphis etc. We need to have a killer instinct and we don't. When we get a lead Mark Few goes back to his comfort zone and places the guys on the floor that he thinks will take care of the ball the best, he's not worried about scoring at this point. What he failed to realize is that Coleman was the guy that ignited the run in the first half, he was a guy that could drive at will which opened up spots on the perimeter for our guys. Why he played just a couple minutes in the 2nd half is absolutely embarassing to me.

Yeah Few can't hit the shots, or play defense and rebound etc. But the team takes on the attitude of the coach, and Few play's timid and careful in these types of games and so does the team. If we want to turn the corner as a program we need to win these type of games. We need to act like we belong. We have little room for error moving forward.

Reborn
02-09-2014, 08:35 AM
Hopefully the whole of the Zags (coach too) can learn a few things from this game and move on. Someone wins and someone loses. For the manner in which I view good basketball I lost respect for Memphis. I hope the Zags can find a better non-WCC team to begin a series with. When it comes to how the Zags performed in this game. They lost. Particular players for one reason or another did not cut it (did not get shots off). Few also did not cut it (did not have the right mix of players on the floor in the last 10 minutes). But .... I like how Few coaches. I like the fact that Few sticks with his starters. To me it means he values his players more than he values a win (at least that's the way I see it). I think that is an honorable trait. What can go wrong with that is that the team, the players - all of them including the starters, may value a win more than they value their own playing time or the respect that Few shows them. I hope I'm making some sense here. Few runs an admirable program but it can be a frustrating one for Zag fans and I suspect for some of the Zags as well. There's a fine line in all of this. If coach had made substitutions of Coleman, Drew or Angel late and won the game what would it have done in the long run for how well Gary or Kevin or Kyle play? On the flip side, if a player is stuck on the floor and not being effective, what does it do for their own confidence of their own abilities? In my mind anyway - there's a lot going on in the mind of a coach. Sure, winning is great but is winning everything? Memphis won the game but are they winners? When players take cheap shots at other players, one gets caught and ejected, and that type of play/mentality contributes to a win - how good is that win? How good do those players feel about themselves and how long will that feeling last?

All in all I'm proud of the Zags for the way they play and I'm proud of Few too. No one is perfect though. There is room for improvement. I can only hope that Few looks at it this way as well - as in, how can we/I improve. 21-4 isn't a shabby win/loss record. The Zags should be 22-3 but that's not the way it turned out. Poo happens. Time to heal wounds in spirit and flesh, learn from this game and move on. The Mrs. and I will be in Vegas for the tournament and I'm sure we're going to have a good emotional workout. That's college basketball and that's the Zags. I'm glad we have the opportunity to be fans of such a good college basketball program. Go Zags!

I was going to write something and say the same thing you did. So now I don't have to. Thanks. I agree completely with what you wrote. Few is not to blame in the least, imo. Yes, he plays certain guys during certain parts of the game. Few plays a certain style of basketball, and so far in his career he has done a great job and imo end up in the Hall of Fame. I believe there is way to much negativity about the Zags for losing a very, very tough game on the road.

The game was back and forth in the second half. It was a game of runs. Gonzaga built a ten point lead in the second half, and then Memphis made a run and tied it. Then Gonzaga goes on a run and gets it back up to ten points, and unfortuately the Memphis Tigers got the last run as time expired. Gonzaga was ahead in this game for 90% of the game. Yes, they could have won the game, but give credit to the Memphis fans and to the players for responding. This road game was neithewr like West Virginia nor Kansas St. Neither K State or West Virginia are as good as Memphis, imo and according to the RPI of the teams. Memphis is a very good team. Its very hard to go in there and win, and imo especially after they have lost a couple at home already.

This was a game I identified as a loss at the beginning of the year. Gonzaga does not play well in Memphis, and in fact this Gonzaga team probably played the best game there that I have seen in awhile. Down 1 with one minute to play. Up 9 points with 5 minutes to play? Could have won.

Go Zags!!!

TacomaZAG
02-09-2014, 08:44 AM
BTO.......Welcome Back!!!

Threads like this just crack me up..........divide the room into two camps. Camp 1 - Few walks on water, 80% win record, his decisions are divinely inspired, questioning him is blasphemy, etc. Camp 2 - Few gets outcoached in big games, can't win the big one, doesn't make in-game adjustments, get rid of him, etc.

What I didn't see in 8 pages of posts/replies is the reality (good or bad) that the players and the game plan reflect the personality of the coach, especially in big/close games and in the Dance. While there are a few individual exceptions (Adam Morrison comes to mind in the Few era at GU, maybe KP when healthy), for the most part the on-court personality of the players is simply an extension of the personality of the coach.

IMHO, Few is a very conservative coach (keep sawing wood, etc.) who gets even more conservative in big/close games. This has played out time after time during his tenure, and is going to continue as long as he is here. It becomes a "play not to lose" scenerio vs. a "play to win" mind set. A perfect example is last night down the stretch when no one wanted to take the shot, no one wanted to take the risk and "play to win". KP is the guy everyone looks to on this team, as Ammo was when he was here, but KP is simply not able physically to do it right now.

All the guys are "coachable" or they woudn't be here, which means they all are willing to take on the personality of the coach, for good or ill. Coleman and Nunez haven't played much this year because they have yet to fully take on the personality of the coach, similar to transfers and new guys from past teams.

Few has his system and he is not going to change. It works during the regular season and in the WCC tourney against the same teams. However, IMHO the "tweaks" needed to beat teams in the dance, especially more athletic teams, are still a work in progress, with all the bumps and warts we saw last night.

With KP hobbled, we have no one able to take over a game and override the conservative nature of the team and program when the game is on the line (Ammo did it many times while he was here). Until he gets healthy and Kyle Wiltjer is eligible, there is no one on the team capable of being that guy.

Better buckle up ZAG fans, it may be a bumpy ride the rest of the year. I'm going to enjoy it for what it is, and celebrate or suffer with the guys after every game.

Go ZAGS

vandalzag
02-09-2014, 09:09 AM
I thought Stocks n Dower were exceptional, Shem was good but shld not have been put back in so soon after fall and Coleman scored 12 but gave away nearly as many. Bells worst zag game, and KP and KD were mediocre as was staff. Had the all too familiar look and feel and outcome of a round of 32 affair. Most distressing of all is the apparent fear all the players save KP and DS have for risking a shot in a key clutch moment.
Jazz I agree almost entirely with you on this, although I do not know what else the staff could have done. Had we said before the game that the Zags were going to get give up 20 offensive boards and still hold them to 35% from the field we would have been pretty happy. Both the defensive and offensive game plans were solid. The problem came at the end when nobody would shoot. KP,DS, and SD are the only ones that have that lack of fear to shoot or do something proactive during crunch time, the rest of the roster defers too much, or in Coleman's does not understand that higher degree of difficulty is not a reason to shoot. Pangos is supposed to be the teams Alpha but he just can't do it right now. I thought KD would be the no fear player to take some of the load off of Pangos, but he is not there yet.
The irony of this thread bagging on Few's coaching is that this team is not that good. Yet here they barely losing a road game to a ranked team, still leading the WCC by 2 games, all while playing with their top 3 players playing at much less than 100%. This year may be Few's best coaching job since he has been at GU.

gamagin
02-09-2014, 09:32 AM
+1


The only guy I have the problem with not playing much is Barham. He's a big wing that can shoot, something that could have been beneficial last night. At least maybe he could have been a threat when Memphis was determined to not let the ball inside.

Coleman literally doesn't pass. Can't have him in down the stretch.

Angel maybe could have been used more but you're not gonna sub for Dower or Karno late in the game. Could he have gotten some rebounds? Yes, but it was 52-43 with 5 minutes left while getting out rebounded by 15. Rebounding wasn't the issue.

My biggest problem is the offensive sets out of those last two timeouts. Can't put it all on Few because the players have to do it on the court but it's not a new thing to struggle out of timeouts late. Also stopping the high low action. Why did it all of the sudden disappear? Whenever the lead was stretched to 9 or 10 it was because Dower and Karno were getting the ball inside and finishing. Dower last shot with 5 minutes left. He was 9 of 12 and they couldn't get it to him down low when it mattered.

If I were king I'd have had DB waiting to shoot that three, since he had some experience, and a lifetime of motivation, to call on over the past several weeks, of hitting that exact.same.shot.

gonwick
02-09-2014, 09:41 AM
BTO.......Welcome Back!!!

Threads like this just crack me up..........divide the room into two camps. Camp 1 - Few walks on water, 80% win record, his decisions are divinely inspired, questioning him is blasphemy, etc. Camp 2 - Few gets outcoached in big games, can't win the big one, doesn't make in-game adjustments, get rid of him, etc.

What I didn't see in 8 pages of posts/replies is the reality (good or bad) that the players and the game plan reflect the personality of the coach, especially in big/close games and in the Dance. While there are a few individual exceptions (Adam Morrison comes to mind in the Few era at GU, maybe KP when healthy), for the most part the on-court personality of the players is simply an extension of the personality of the coach.

IMHO, Few is a very conservative coach (keep sawing wood, etc.) who gets even more conservative in big/close games. This has played out time after time during his tenure, and is going to continue as long as he is here. It becomes a "play not to lose" scenerio vs. a "play to win" mind set. A perfect example is last night down the stretch when no one wanted to take the shot, no one wanted to take the risk and "play to win". KP is the guy everyone looks to on this team, as Ammo was when he was here, but KP is simply not able physically to do it right now.

All the guys are "coachable" or they woudn't be here, which means they all are willing to take on the personality of the coach, for good or ill. Coleman and Nunez haven't played much this year because they have yet to fully take on the personality of the coach, similar to transfers and new guys from past teams.

Few has his system and he is not going to change. It works during the regular season and in the WCC tourney against the same teams. However, IMHO the "tweaks" needed to beat teams in the dance, especially more athletic teams, are still a work in progress, with all the bumps and warts we saw last night.

With KP hobbled, we have no one able to take over a game and override the conservative nature of the team and program when the game is on the line (Ammo did it many times while he was here). Until he gets healthy and Kyle Wiltjer is eligible, there is no one on the team capable of being that guy.

Better buckle up ZAG fans, it may be a bumpy ride the rest of the year. I'm going to enjoy it for what it is, and celebrate or suffer with the guys after every game.

Go ZAGS

Agreed. Great post.

gonwick
02-09-2014, 09:54 AM
This game is a microcosm of the zags in the tourney and the zags as a whole.

Agree with most, the zags just aren't very good this year. They will almost certainly be one and done in the tourney if they get in, unless they get crazy hot from three.

Few is a bad in game coach. This has a cumulative effect. He plays the same lineup regardless of efficacy or score. There have been losses where players should have been subbed. There have been blowout wins where players should have gotten time to play so they would be ready for games like this. Nunez and Coleman are still both known and unknown entities. Kyle and Drew could both have used more seasoning. Few plays tight in the beginning of the season because the schedule is usually front loaded (not so much this season). Few plays tight in the wcc because that is where gu racks up the wins and gets into the tourney. By tourney time, the team is underdeveloped, the lineups tighten even more, and there is no room for flexibility. Bummer.

Sam was awesome.

Maybe Gary is getting no sleep because of the baby? There may be more playing time for the incoming guards next year than I'd have anticipated. He needs to shoot the darn three when he is open. His worst game I've ever seen.

Zags are now what, 4 and 24 vs ranked opponents on the road? That goes beyond players and speaks to the program. I will never accept the 80% win stat as a get out of jail free card because we play so many weak teams. Look at Wichita State this year. Quick path to 30 wins. Honestly, looking at the schedule this year, can you find more than 20% of games you would predict as a loss if you were a bettor?

A thought I just had is: who manages substitutions? Is it few or does he defer to tommy? I would be fascinated to know which coaches do what, because I remember tommy saying he drew up the blown play that Sam hit to win against sc. I guess regardless, if you are making a million dollars, you take responsibility for all the decisions.

bballbeachbum
02-09-2014, 10:00 AM
Jazz I agree almost entirely with you on this, although I do not know what else the staff could have done. Had we said before the game that the Zags were going to get give up 20 offensive boards and still hold them to 35% from the field we would have been pretty happy. Both the defensive and offensive game plans were solid. The problem came at the end when nobody would shoot. KP,DS, and SD are the only ones that have that lack of fear to shoot or do something proactive during crunch time, the rest of the roster defers too much, or in Coleman's does not understand that higher degree of difficulty is not a reason to shoot. Pangos is supposed to be the teams Alpha but he just can't do it right now. I thought KD would be the no fear player to take some of the load off of Pangos, but he is not there yet.
The irony of this thread bagging on Few's coaching is that this team is not that good. Yet here they barely losing a road game to a ranked team, still leading the WCC by 2 games, all while playing with their top 3 players playing at much less than 100%. This year may be Few's best coaching job since he has been at GU.

one thing Zags could have done is go for the quick 2 while down 3 with 25 seconds left, then foul and extend the game. Dean Smith, Jim Valvano, it's tried and true. Maybe that's what they wanted to do but it never materialized. Reading Meehan's game story it sounded like the plan was to go inside and that takes time to set up; most teams go for dribble penetration at that point looking to attack the rim quickly and either finish or get fouled and stop the clock; GU does not have that player and that reality was exposed imo

feel bad for Gary. looked to me like he tried to do exactly what the coaches want and be 'more assertive' and all it got him is out of control and into two of the worst games he's played in the uniform back to back; over dribbling and over penetrating both in transition and in the half court--stupid stuff he never does as he's typically an excellent decision maker--and getting packed at the rim multiple times, and now back to back games with people even asking 'who is that guy in Gary's uniform?' To me, it's the guy who has been asked to now be a strong side creator (more assertive) because KP can't right now and lo and behold, it's a gear he doesn't appear to have, and it has thrown him totally off kilter so that his strengths aren't even brought in play. I agree with jazz, it's the worst game he's had in the uni. You can say Gary is scared if you want to, but he's made clutch plays and done it late plenty in his career to make me think it's something else, like what I just explained.

And didn't Sam just hit a game winner recently? He's not scared, not buying that either
edit: I see you don't but that either, was talking to jazz :)

cjm720
02-09-2014, 10:43 AM
Good post, bum

jazzdelmar
02-09-2014, 10:53 AM
on
And didn't Sam just hit a game winner recently? He's not scared, not buying that either
edit: I see you don't but that either, was talking to jazz :)

of course sam is not risk averse, just that he cant get his shot w/o help.....so we have 3 ballsy players.

ZAGGED OUT
02-09-2014, 10:55 AM
I'm over it. A lot of people here make rash posts right after a game. Myself, I take a night before looking to gather my thoughts. I agree we got outplayed at the end, however, this is a good lesson. The guys know they can play with any athleticism now. We controlled most of that game.

At the end of the day, I came into this year with little expectations. Kind of a nice change from last year where they were sky high every day. It's a transition year really. This team is still solid, still a TON of fun to watch, and could still get hot in March. If you want to melt down go ahead, but GU isn't going anywhere but up in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

vandalzag
02-09-2014, 12:14 PM
one thing Zags could have done is go for the quick 2 while down 3 with 25 seconds left, then foul and extend the game. Dean Smith, Jim Valvano, it's tried and true. Maybe that's what they wanted to do but it never materialized. Reading Meehan's game story it sounded like the plan was to go inside and that takes time to set up; most teams go for dribble penetration at that point looking to attack the rim quickly and either finish or get fouled and stop the clock; GU does not have that player and that reality was exposed imo

feel bad for Gary. looked to me like he tried to do exactly what the coaches want and be 'more assertive' and all it got him is out of control and into two of the worst games he's played in the uniform back to back; over dribbling and over penetrating both in transition and in the half court--stupid stuff he never does as he's typically an excellent decision maker--and getting packed at the rim multiple times, and now back to back games with people even asking 'who is that guy in Gary's uniform?' To me, it's the guy who has been asked to now be a strong side creator (more assertive) because KP can't right now and lo and behold, it's a gear he doesn't appear to have, and it has thrown him totally off kilter so that his strengths aren't even brought in play. I agree with jazz, it's the worst game he's had in the uni. You can say Gary is scared if you want to, but he's made clutch plays and done it late plenty in his career to make me think it's something else, like what I just explained.

And didn't Sam just hit a game winner recently? He's not scared, not buying that either
edit: I see you don't but that either, was talking to jazz :)

The go for the quick 2, via dribble drive is where they missed Stockton at the end. The one thing he can do is penetrate, would have been different with him on the floor and then spotting up 3 shooters to kick it out to. That being said the shot KD had was wide open. The difference between a good and a great year is guys stepping up and hitting that kind shot, especially when they are the second or third option. Funny thing is if he hits that shot and GU goes on to win the game we would have an 8 page thread on discussing how well the play was designed and celebrating the KD for having the onions to hit the shot.

bballbeachbum
02-09-2014, 12:35 PM
The go for the quick 2, via dribble drive is where they missed Stockton at the end. The one thing he can do is penetrate, would have been different with him on the floor and then spotting up 3 shooters to kick it out to. That being said the shot KD had was wide open. The difference between a good and a great year is guys stepping up and hitting that kind shot, especially when they are the second or third option. Funny thing is if he hits that shot and GU goes on to win the game we would have an 8 page thread on discussing how well the play was designed and celebrating the KD for having the onions to hit the shot.

Certainly could have been different with David out there with his penetration skills, but like you said it would be more of the drive and kick which is still going for the open 3 ball; the other strategy requires the drive to the rim for the finish or foul to stop the clock.

not calling the coaches out for their choice, agree we would be here hailing them and KDís onions! like we have Samís and KPís and DSís and GBjís at different times in their careers for doing the late game thing. I think Kyle makes one of those next time and hope he can get on the floor more to prove it

bballbeachbum
02-09-2014, 12:37 PM
of course sam is not risk averse, just that he cant get his shot w/o help.....so we have 3 ballsy players.

gotcha on Sam, agree. we'll see how many ballsy players there are over the next few weeks, I think there's more than 3 and the schedule will demand it on the road. we'll see

thanks cjm

JPtheBeasta
02-09-2014, 01:13 PM
The irony of this thread bagging on Few's coaching is that this team is not that good. Yet here they barely losing a road game to a ranked team, still leading the WCC by 2 games, all while playing with their top 3 players playing at much less than 100%. This year may be Few's best coaching job since he has been at GU.


+1. For whatever the reason, the pieces aren't fitting like I am used to. I though we lacked depth and had a some big question marks about the rotation this year. I didn't expect the injury bug to bite us like it has. We have experienced way to many offensive shooting dry spells this season, and our guards have been struggling to get the ball to our bigs in positions to score. We also have been spoiled in the past by centers who can shoot free throws. That could have been the difference last night, as well.

JPtheBeasta
02-09-2014, 01:22 PM
Not that anyone should care, and at risk of sounding self indulgent, I wanted to apologize to Angel Nunez and any Zags posters I could have offended last night. After the game in this thread I was overzealous in arguing against what I thought were brash comments by some posters here and was critical of his talents in a style that I try not to engage in. I appreciate all of our student athletes and what they do, and the Zags are my favorite team of any sport to cheer for. This was a tough loss to swallow, despite expecting to lose (Memphis just seems to have our number), and in trying to tell people to keep their heads on straight, I couldn't do so with my own.

Zags11
02-09-2014, 04:15 PM
Bitter loss in cause of how we became tight. I see this alot. Few isn't the coach who values high risk, high reward. I, if was a coach would be more like Few. Yes, id love to try to have all my players be ball hawks and jump passing lanes but in reality id tell them not to. Id rather have them shoot over me then try to jump lanes and whiff and give them easy points.

If stockton was 6'3, he may be our best guard with Pangos. I love to see how'd that pan out. Ds is a poor shooter but at 6'3 he would get easy buckets inside on more regular basis. Bell, one of my favorite zags is just non existing for us. It pains me to watch his hesitation to shoot. Dower, coleman, pk had great games.

Pangos is a stud. He will fire all day. That's for better and at times for worse. I thought pangos beat his road woes but starting to look like he hasn't. I understand he is hurt. I hope its why but I don't think so.

jpn17
02-09-2014, 04:29 PM
I totally agree. The talent pool for quality NCAA coaches is limited at best and Gonzaga's location and conference further limits their opportunities. Coach Few is okay but find me someone better who is willing to coach the zags... crickets. cheers.

I disagree that the Zags couldn't hire someone better than Few, the kicker is how many of those guys would stay at Gonzaga for 15 years and build up Gonzaga into a consistent NCAA tournament team? That IMO is where you hear crickets. Whether you like Few or not, you gotta give him credit for creating a program that everyone knows the name of around the country now and never bailing.

Rbo
02-09-2014, 05:15 PM
I'm curious. Could you explain how you saw their weakness. I'd guess neither played more than a couple minutes.

The dude with the butt as big as a Kardashian came in to score and Nunuez moved aside like he was he was Bruce Jenner with a freshly healing face lift.

ZagaZags
02-09-2014, 05:44 PM
Cad, you're a genius with the graphics. I always appreciate that.

+1

BYU
02-09-2014, 07:44 PM
Ummmm..... this thread seems insane. This year the group think on this board has come a lot closer to accepting a negative view of Few. A couple of years ago you guys would have shouted down the random complainer, but now the vocal minority is gaining a solid foot hold.

As a fan of another WCC school, I am going to support the vocal Few detractors. Please, make it less fun for Few to go to work. It will help (other schools in the WCC) tremendously. Please, accept nothing less than a national championship every year!!!! Let the discontent grow and turn into a fire Few campaign!!!

When Coach K gets fired for not having a number 1 seed this year, (of coarse) pick him up. If Coach K won't come, there may be another couple of coaches in the US more desirable than Few and I'm sure it is safe to assume the Zags would land one of them.

FEW SUCKS (at losing) AND NEEDS TO GO (for the other teams in the WCC to have more success) !!!!!!!!

Hoopaholic
02-09-2014, 07:57 PM
Ummmm..... this thread seems insane. This year the group think on this board has come a lot closer to accepting a negative view of Few. A couple of years ago you guys would have shouted down the random complainer, but now the vocal minority is gaining a solid foot hold.

As a fan of another WCC school, I am going to support the vocal Few detractors. Please, make it less fun for Few to go to work. It will help (other schools in the WCC) tremendously. Please, accept nothing less than a national championship every year!!!! Let the discontent grow and turn into a fire Few campaign!!!

When Coach K gets fired for not having a number 1 seed this year, (of coarse) pick him up. If Coach K won't come, there may be another couple of coaches in the US more desirable than Few and I'm sure it is safe to assume the Zags would land one of them.

FEW SUCKS (at losing) AND NEEDS TO GO (for the other teams in the WCC to have more success) !!!!!!!!

At least I got a good laugh tonight......

MickMick
02-09-2014, 07:59 PM
Road game against a top 25 team.

I'm impressed that they were in it until the last few minutes.

GoZags
02-09-2014, 08:03 PM
Ummmm..... this thread seems insane. This year the group think on this board has come a lot closer to accepting a negative view of Few. A couple of years ago you guys would have shouted down the random complainer, but now the vocal minority is gaining a solid foot hold.

As a fan of another WCC school, I am going to support the vocal Few detractors. Please, make it less fun for Few to go to work. It will help (other schools in the WCC) tremendously. Please, accept nothing less than a national championship every year!!!! Let the discontent grow and turn into a fire Few campaign!!!

When Coach K gets fired for not having a number 1 seed this year, (of coarse) pick him up. If Coach K won't come, there may be another couple of coaches in the US more desirable than Few and I'm sure it is safe to assume the Zags would land one of them.

FEW SUCKS (at losing) AND NEEDS TO GO (for the other teams in the WCC to have more success) !!!!!!!!

Sadly, I believe your perception of this once proud message board is correct.

Thanks for the visit.

Pargo the Destroyer
02-09-2014, 09:10 PM
Leave it to BYU guy to bring levity and an ounce or 2 of common sense to this place. Well said.

ZagaZags
02-09-2014, 09:13 PM
Without Few the program would fall back into mediocrity and irrelevancy. Doesn't mean he's perfect or without faults. I don't think he's ever going to take GU to the final four and I think he's had some really good teams that blew it in the tourney a few too many times. But it's better then the alternative which is becoming Portland or Pepperdine. Eww


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I love Few for many reasons. You say once Few is gone the team will fall into mediocrity? Tommy Lloyd is shaking his head at you. Gonzaga is in great shape for years to come with coaching.

SLOZag
02-09-2014, 09:16 PM
Ummmm..... this thread seems insane. This year the group think on this board has come a lot closer to accepting a negative view of Few. A couple of years ago you guys would have shouted down the random complainer, but now the vocal minority is gaining a solid foot hold.

As a fan of another WCC school, I am going to support the vocal Few detractors. Please, make it less fun for Few to go to work. It will help (other schools in the WCC) tremendously. Please, accept nothing less than a national championship every year!!!! Let the discontent grow and turn into a fire Few campaign!!!

When Coach K gets fired for not having a number 1 seed this year, (of coarse) pick him up. If Coach K won't come, there may be another couple of coaches in the US more desirable than Few and I'm sure it is safe to assume the Zags would land one of them.

FEW SUCKS (at losing) AND NEEDS TO GO (for the other teams in the WCC to have more success) !!!!!!!!

Come back any time!

ZagaZags
02-09-2014, 09:20 PM
That could be true, wasn't trying to knock any of the assistants.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do agree with you about Few, all I'm saying is, we are lucky to have a fine coach in waiting. SDSU has the same thing with Brian Dutcher waiting on Steve Fisher.

titopoet
02-10-2014, 04:19 AM
I came away thinking that this Zag team is very close. Many are pointing to Few's coaching, but in reality it was three things that led to the lose. Attention to details. Joe Jackson, Dixon and King where the ones that hurt GU on the Offensive boards. This is not our bigs getting out played, but a simple case of everyone blocking out their man. Second, with the game on the line, a few Zags played hero ball. If they played straight up on D, it could have been a different results. Third, Memphis played tough (tough as taking shots when the ref was not looking.) Zags took shots back at the wrong time. In tight game on the road and your seven footer just go the rebound, is not the time to hit the guy that has hitting all game long, especially in front of the ref. Cost GU a position and re-ignted their run.

gonzagafan62
02-10-2014, 07:20 AM
This is the dumbest thread in the history of threads. Without Mark Few we wouldn't have been anywhere close to #1 in any season period. No tournament appearances. Take it from someone who was here BEFORE the runs. Don't get caught up in being greedy. We have had fun in the sun, but not every single season can be great. Sometimes you just need a year to see kids deal with adversity and see what its like to play 4 straight on the road to end the season.

If you don't think Mark Few can coach, I dare you to try to do better than he does. I think you would fall flat on your face.

LongIslandZagFan
02-10-2014, 07:35 AM
This is the dumbest thread in the history of threads.

That is most threads on this board lately.

Sad when people with no real vested interest (BYU and Memphis fans) point out how crazy this board is.

Sorry... back to my hole... I wouldn't want to supress the pile of animal dung people want to build.

Oregonzagnut
02-10-2014, 07:41 AM
This is the dumbest thread in the history of threads. Without Mark Few we wouldn't have been anywhere close to #1 in any season period. No tournament appearances. Take it from someone who was here BEFORE the runs. Don't get caught up in being greedy. We have had fun in the sun, but not every single season can be great. Sometimes you just need a year to see kids deal with adversity and see what its like to play 4 straight on the road to end the season.

If you don't think Mark Few can coach, I dare you to try to do better than he does. I think you would fall flat on your face.

This type of coach questioning is normal for a loss. However I do think we all want to win and HINDSIGHT often shows us what went wrong. So Few should see those things "pre-sight". (JK) But he is the guy getting paid millions a year to find out how to get us over the hump and start beating these tournament type teams. When he seems to be not risking or changing up ANYTHING we have a right to wonder why.

Claiming we should replace Few is silly and only spoken of by several posters who likely are trying to troll.

I want Few to stay here forever because this type of continuity and consistency is unique for a mid major. Also I can see Fews rationale for playing conservative during the regular season. However, when the tournament comes around, Few needs to AT LEAST TRY to let that conservative barrier go.

If we lose because we went "all in" and the kids had fun, then I am OK with that. More so anyway than sticking to the status quo and losing.

Zags11
02-10-2014, 07:49 AM
Few is a great coach but a so so in game manager. He has cost us some but won us more. Look, we should be proud that we are a top 25 team on average and have a rooting interest come march. Do I want more? Hell yes. Do I expect more? Sometimes. Do I want Few gone? Hell no.

Zagceo
02-10-2014, 08:18 AM
This.. People confuse criticism with demanding Few be fired.. We all love him as an ambassador to the university AND coach. He does it the right way, which is so rare today. But he's not above criticism. Lots of big leads blown in big games over the years. There is a pattern. We wonder why and how it can be fixed. Doesn't mean we want him gone

Imo this is what happens when college coaches don't have to face the tough questions of the media. In the pros after each game the coaches must face the media or get fined and the media gets to flush out all the moves the coaches make in a game. If college coaches don't have to face the same questions the fans start asking the questions to each other on boards like this!

I'm sure Mark Few would rather have fans questioning him behind closed doors than face the media after every game.

If those on this board don't like it maybe you push the NCAA to push for a fine if the coaches don't address the media after every game. : )

SWZag
02-10-2014, 08:55 AM
This attitude is what is worst about GUB, thinking you can dismiss someone who makes a comment like OP did just because they have few posts. It may have been a rash post, but don't get all high and mighty because you have 1,000+ posts.

You are correct, I didn't have the best attitude when I made my post right after the loss. I apologize for that.

What I dislike is when people always have to blame someone. Unfortunately, It's human nature to find blame and to criticize others, but it takes a greater/stronger effort to not point the finger. I think a lot of people forget that we'd be nowhere without the current coaches and players.

Finding blame and criticizing doesn't help anyone. Neither the person being blamed, nor the person doing the blaming. It's a detriment to all.

bartruff1
02-10-2014, 08:58 AM
I haven't read the thread...but I assume he has finished all the games..( more than 500 of them and won over 80%).....I think you would be fined if you didn't..... except when a official decides to end the game with time remaining.

Mr Vulture
02-10-2014, 09:10 AM
At any point in time has there been consideration into the fact that this is NOT one of our better teams of the Mark Few era. This team has very little margin of error and has been dealing with injuries/illness throughout the year. It's not like we are .500 or something, this is a team that has 20+ wins already. I like that we are being underestimated because once you're in the NCAA's, anything can happen. This team is going to be a 7-10 seed this year, but look out next year, I think we may be in for another big run.

gonwick
02-10-2014, 09:28 AM
Probably because the team isn't very good this year, a lot of threads of ended up in the same spot.

The wins have pretty much been over teams that are mediocre at best, so not much to take away. Interestingly, the BYU and SMC games were the most comfortable, which, combined with those programs being down this year, made them anticlimactic. Close wins over mediocre teams don't create much enthusiasm.

Losses lead people to wonder why the team lost. For some reason, this always goes like this:

Post game thread on what went wrong.
Most people comment on rotations, clock/timeout management, player performance.

Then someone throws out one of the following:
Few has won 80% of his games (has made the tournament every year, or some variant, implying that he cannot be questioned)
Incorrectly asserts that posters want Few fired or asks who could do better (or in other ways redirects the posts, changing the conversation from one about real issues to a straw man that no one suggested)
Questions a poster's sports history or intelligence if they question Few
Gonzaga used to be terrible, so we should be grateful they are relevant
Calls out a poster for a personal attack on a player when there was no attack other than questioning on court performance
Very rarely (if ever) someone actually says fire Few.
Almost never: someone says something negative about a player that is out of bounds.

For me, those are all dead end posts. The first several happen in almost every thread, multiple times, the last 2 almost never happen. I don't think that the board has become a dumping place for doubters and haters. I think people are more vocal in questioning Few. That's not a bad thing. Whether it's because personnel decisions have been particularly vexing this year (because there are positions with no clear frontrunners), or because Wichita St. and other NCAA failures loom large in people's memories, or because there's nothing else to talk about I don't know. An excellent point in a post above about how Few never answers real questions about the team from the media, so that also creates a void for fans.

Zagceo
02-10-2014, 09:37 AM
I think the bigger issue goes beyond this season but I can't speak for everybody. Our best team ever blew a lead late in the round of 32... Trends here

Ouch truth hurts!


“We just needed to make one play down the stretch to break their will a little bit,” Stockton said. “You get to that point and sometimes you play not to lose. I think that’s what happened a little bit.”

I want to know if this attitude came from the coaches or the players took this upon themselves? Play not to lose! Either way that is not what built this program. Do people even remember the toughness of Casey Calvery? I don't care how big you are you can still be tough. In general not picking on stockton. I don't believe Casey would be to proud to hear a Zag say "You get to a point and sometimes you play not to lose"!

Oh thats right Monson was the coach of the 1998-99 team that lost to UCONN in the elite 8! Never mind.

bartruff1
02-10-2014, 10:05 AM
The good news is we will make the same posts all over again after the next loss...

Dan Monson was a great coach...how has he been doing since 1999 ?

Zagceo
02-10-2014, 10:09 AM
The good news is we will do it all over again after the next loss...

Whats that not learn anything from losing?

gueastcoast
02-10-2014, 10:22 AM
GUB is melting down yet again because we lose a very winnable away game to a ranked opponent in front of 18,000 hostile fans with a number of our guys hurt or healing (and, apparently, not one of our better teams, although I disagree a bit on that).

It's one game, and a little perspective helps. Most of us will find that perspective with the passage of time (for my part I was in a dark and ugly place Saturday night).

That said, a lot of folks seem to want to seize on a maddening loss as a catalyst for their frustrations with Coach Few, and see this loss as part of a larger pattern (of choking, poor in-game management, weird player rotations, or whatever). I will confess I don't always understand his lineups, substitution patterns, and why it seems some players have a longer leash than others. But I do know that he has forgotten more about CBB than most of us will ever know and has a lifetime 80% winning percentage. And if he hasn't (yet) achieved a FF or National Championship, perhaps that says more about our expectations than what he has achieved for our little school.

It's one loss. To determine whether or not it is indicative of some pattern, one would need a good deal more transparency into what is really going on with the team and the program - the degree of informational asymmetry here is perhaps underappreciated.

bartruff1
02-10-2014, 10:26 AM
It appears to me that you can question all you want...till the cows come home... I am not sure that will actually have any effects in the real world but go for it...

Zagceo
02-10-2014, 10:29 AM
The good news is we will make the same posts all over again after the next loss...

Dan Monson was a great coach...how has he been doing since 1999 ?

Unfortunately Monson has taken more teams to the elite 8 than Coach Few. Expectations are tough. What makes you so sure Coach Few would do any better than Monson if he left GU?

Zagceo
02-10-2014, 10:34 AM
It appears to me that you can question all you want...till the cows come home... I am not sure that will actually have any effects in the real world but go for it...

So you think theres a chance?

cjm720
02-10-2014, 10:48 AM
This is a fair point and like I said in a previous post, the alternative to Mark Few would likely be brutally irrelevant and bad. But does this mean we can't question what we have now? Just accept the short comings and the continued disappointing season ending losses because it's better than the alternative?


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The problem is that what you consider short comings, most programs and fans would kill for...

zagfan1970
02-10-2014, 10:55 AM
Players gotta make the plays, hardly the coaches fault.

Isn't it the coaches job to put the right people in the right place? Coleman was clearly the only guard who could create his own shot. He carried us through the first half. He averages .56/pts per minute. Compare this to Stockton(.25ppm)Bell(.41ppm) Pangos(.43ppm)Barham(.35) and Dranginis(.25ppm) and I am baffled when I see him sitting on the bench chewing on his fingernails. It is the COACHES job to realize things like that. That Stockton and Bell seemed out of sinc. Coleman looked comfortable. I am GLAD he took a couple 3's. It opens up his penetration game. The one rattled in and out. Pangos didn't exactly light it up from 3.

The game reminded me of the UCLA tourney collapse, a game in hand to be outscored 17-2 and 10-0 to end it. I find it hard to believe a TO and bringing COleman in would not have yielded at least a better look at the basket than fadeaway 3's or even a Karnowski 3pt attempt.

Larrylegend
02-10-2014, 11:01 AM
At about the 12 min mark after a timeout Memphis adjusted to take away the high low action by bringing ball side player to the paint leaving baseline 3 shot wide open I kept screaming at tv for barham substitute as that is where he excels

Gonzaga was killing Memphis on the high-low with Dower to Shem. Memphis adjusted. Gonzaga didn't. For all his fine qualities, Few has never been a good game coach, never able to play the chess game that is college basketball.

The classic example of Few's inability to make adjustments during a meaningful game was GU's meltdown against UCLA in the Sweet 16.

bartruff1
02-10-2014, 11:02 AM
Shut all message boards down then, because there isn't anything to talk about since nothing said here matters. Shut it all down folks!


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This is just a peanut gallery ...a fan forum...all hat and no cattle ...we have no effect on the people that run this program... I have a strong suspicion that "they" are more worried about what Phil Knight thinks about Mark than what we think...

My mom used to tell me, you don't appreciate what you have till you lose it...to make a long story short, I could not walk for three years and now I can... to simply walk down the street and step off a curb is a absolute joy to me....I have been a Gonzaga Basketball fan for more than 50 years.... the last 15 have been a absolute joy for me.

Having said that...it doesn't bother me that everyone doesn't agree with me...... and I think you have every right to express your opinion..... and I assume it doesn't bother you if everyone doesn't agree with your opinions .... at least I hope so.

Zagceo
02-10-2014, 11:06 AM
This is just a peanut gallery ...a fan forum...all hat and no cattle ...we have no effect on the people that run this program... I have a strong suspicion that "they" are more worried about what Phil Knight thinks about Mark than what we think...

My mom used to tell me, you don't appreciate what you have till you lose it...to make a long story short, I could not walk for three years and now I can... to simply walk down the street and step off a curb is a absolute joy to me....I have been a Gonzaga Basketball fan for more than 50 years.... the last 15 have been a absolute joy for me.

Having said that...it doesn't bother me that everyone doesn't agree with me and I think you have every right to express your opinion and I assume it doesn't bother you if everyone doesn't agree with your opinion .... at least I hope so.

So now you say I got no chance?

Virginia Zags Fan
02-10-2014, 11:15 AM
Mark Few has a great reputation among other coaches. I think they realize how hard it is to manage in game situations. No coach is going to coach a perfect game. No player is going to play a perfect game. The guys will look at the tape and learn a lot from this one. You often learn more from a loss than a win. Human nature. I'll bet if you asked coach Few today if he would have done some things differently and prepared differently, he might have a whole list.

But there is still a lot of basketball left to play and nobody wants to win more than he does. And I wouldn't want anybody else coaching GU at this point.

cjm720
02-10-2014, 11:16 AM
This thread is such a joke...it's always greener on the other side of the fence.

bartruff1
02-10-2014, 11:39 AM
This thread is such a joke...it's always greener on the other side of the fence.

Hey CJ...at least they have quit bringing up Butler and Brad....that is progress...

scott257
02-10-2014, 11:42 AM
I like Mark Few a lot. That being said, the questions I have are:

1) What does it take to instill mental toughness into a team? Is is possible for the coach to do that? This team has been a Jeckyl and Hyde team all season long with a good game followed by a bad game. Now we see good and bad in the same game and once things start going bad, the team doesn't seem to have the guts necessary to pull themselves out of the hole.
2) Why do the big men always look like cupcakes? At times it almost appears that Sam is playing to be awarded Miss Congeniality. Karno falls over if you blow on him too hard. Is the strength coach working so hard to bring Wiltjer along that he doesn't have a strength program for the guys that are actually playing?
3) Why doesn't Mark ever just take a risk? I like that he is loyal to his starters, but they weren't doing well and should have been benched. He doesn't hesitate to bench Nunez and Coleman when they do something wrong, why doesn't that apply to the starting five when they stink it up? I have wanted to see Nunez and Coleman on the floor together for extended minutes for some time, it seems to me that would be a risk that might just pay off.
4) Why didn't he start Drew Barham? Even if it was a symbolic gesture, it would have been the right thing to do. That Barham got so little time makes me wonder if something was wrong with him that we haven't been made aware of. If he was healthy, he certainly should have gotten more playing time than he did.

I am a huge fan of Mark, but this has been one of his worst years. He should have benched Pangos when he hurt his toe and kept him on the bench until it healed. Yes we might have struggled and lost some games but there is nothing to gain from seeing him play the way he is. I would say that for those guys that complain about Stockton, I think Stockton is considered to be more of a threat right now than Pangos is. Just my two cents.

gonzagafan62
02-10-2014, 12:18 PM
I love Mark Few and think that his values and the way he runs his program (the right way) are unfortunately becoming more rare by the second which is sad. Having said that, I don't blindly accept every decision he makes just because I recognize how lucky we are to have him as a coach, mentor, and community/school spokesman.

The criticism aimed at the GU program and Few by our in state rivals though is becoming more and more difficult to argue. Now it's pretty much "yeah, but we're a lot better than you" and that's it. Last years disappointing end was the last straw for me and now I expect to underachieve and I expect disappointment. Hopefully this will result in me being very pleasantly surprised one day, but I've lowered My expectations and have forever tuned out the hype. Last year took a lot out of me as a fan


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Last year's "disappointment" to you was more thanks to a broken foot by Gary Bell in which he was shutting down the WSU guards, and after he had left the game, WSU lit us up. I don't see it as a disappointment, I see it as bad luck.

cjm720
02-10-2014, 12:19 PM
If you'd pay attention, you'd see most people realize it wouldn't be any greener. It would be a lot worse..

So because of this, we can't even discuss the failures? Not fair


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I see the distinction, but 1) failures are highly relative and 2) Few's not leaving

Sure losing sucks, but as many have pointed out: the 2nd best 3 point shooting team in the country shot 12.5%, we had half as many free throws and offensive boards, we were on a road in a rowdy environment of close to 20K fans, we played against a top 25 team against far superior athletes (not even close really), yet we arguably could have won - whether that's one stop, one extra 3, a couple free throws OR as many of you would put it, not playing the right player at the right time because you all are successful coaches....it's just getting a bit comical....every single loss goes the same way on the board.

exclusivelee
02-10-2014, 12:30 PM
I think it's time this thread is locked...

Time to move on to the next game. Another thread similar to this will pop up soon enough.

This is a disappointing loss. I know most of you expected that we would lose this game. Programs like Memphis and Illinois just seem to have our numbers, even if they have a coaching change. Their athleticism is hard for us to overcome. Obviously, Few did not put the right guys on the court enough who try to hit the boards harder like Nunez, Draino, Barham, & Coleman and that's what did us in. Stockton, Bell, and Pangos do not crash the boards well enough and Shem and Dower seem to fumble a rebound to the other team too often.

At least twice during the game, we had poor shot clock awareness, leading to Pangos having the dumb idea to give Shem the ball right before a violation, forcing him to chuck a 3. Another time, Dower drove toward the basket instead of shooting a long 2, forcing a shot clock violation

Another thing I was irritated at was while Draino was on the floor, it seemed like noone would ever pass him the ball... he's the most unselfish player on the team, and tends to want to create for his teammates more than anyone else when he is in the game.

gonzagafan62
02-10-2014, 12:45 PM
Always an excuse.

Man They've had a TON of bad luck


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And winning at the buzzer, and in clutch game situations all the time? I don't see what you are getting at. You throw one bad luck situation, and I can give you five games a year where we were lucky enough to come away with a win, and stole one.

Mr Vulture
02-10-2014, 12:53 PM
I would actually say our best team ever ran into a team that got hot at the wrong time, quite possibly since our best perimeter defender broke his foot in the first half. Not only that, but I can count three shots by the other team that were prayers that went in. Sometimes, it doesn't matter how good you are if you run into the wrong team. I don't think coaching had anything to do with that loss personally...


I think the bigger issue goes beyond this season but I can't speak for everybody. Our best team ever blew a lead late in the round of 32... Trends here


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cjm720
02-10-2014, 12:54 PM
Always an excuse.

Man They've had a TON of bad luck


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And the team they lost to is 25-1 since, but that's just an excuse and it has nothing to do with the game of basketball.

maynard g krebs
02-10-2014, 12:56 PM
Always an excuse.

Man They've had a TON of bad luck




I just looked up "excuse" in the dictionary. One of the synonyms (a word that means the same thing) for excuse as a noun is "reason".

So I'll choose to interpret your sentence above as meaning "Always a reason". As such, I'll agree with you. Yes, there's always a reason for everything that happens. Otherwise, logically, it wouldn't happen.

I don't think that's what you meant, though. I think you intended to demean the poster for giving a reason, by using "excuse" as a pejorative. It's ok, it's a common mistake.

zagfan1970
02-10-2014, 12:58 PM
I like Mark Few a lot. That being said, the questions I have are:

1) What does it take to instill mental toughness into a team? Is is possible for the coach to do that? This team has been a Jeckyl and Hyde team all season long with a good game followed by a bad game. Now we see good and bad in the same game and once things start going bad, the team doesn't seem to have the guts necessary to pull themselves out of the hole.
2) Why do the big men always look like cupcakes? At times it almost appears that Sam is playing to be awarded Miss Congeniality. Karno falls over if you blow on him too hard. Is the strength coach working so hard to bring Wiltjer along that he doesn't have a strength program for the guys that are actually playing?
3) Why doesn't Mark ever just take a risk? I like that he is loyal to his starters, but they weren't doing well and should have been benched. He doesn't hesitate to bench Nunez and Coleman when they do something wrong, why doesn't that apply to the starting five when they stink it up? I have wanted to see Nunez and Coleman on the floor together for extended minutes for some time, it seems to me that would be a risk that might just pay off.
4) Why didn't he start Drew Barham? Even if it was a symbolic gesture, it would have been the right thing to do. That Barham got so little time makes me wonder if something was wrong with him that we haven't been made aware of. If he was healthy, he certainly should have gotten more playing time than he did.

I am a huge fan of Mark, but this has been one of his worst years. He should have benched Pangos when he hurt his toe and kept him on the bench until it healed. Yes we might have struggled and lost some games but there is nothing to gain from seeing him play the way he is. I would say that for those guys that complain about Stockton, I think Stockton is considered to be more of a threat right now than Pangos is. Just my two cents.


When COleman and Nunez were on the floor briefly they played well and were disruptive on D and Nunez was blocking shots! I would love to see Pangos, Coleman, Nunez, Dower and Karnowski out there for a few stretches! Stockton if KP isn't healthy. It is all about spreading the minutes around and keeping the whole rotation INVOLVED. I understand in "crunch time" going with a "trusted" few, but if they are tired it doesn't do much good.

Mr Vulture
02-10-2014, 12:59 PM
FANTASTIC!


I just looked up "excuse" in the dictionary. One of the synonyms (a word that means the same thing) for excuse as a noun is "reason".

So I'll choose to interpret your sentence above as meaning "Always a reason". As such, I'll agree with you. Yes, there's always a reason for everything that happens. Otherwise, logically, it wouldn't happen.

I don't think that's what you meant, though. I think you intended to demean the poster for giving a reason, by using "excuse" as a pejorative. It's ok, it's a common mistake.

Mr Vulture
02-10-2014, 01:00 PM
I actually thought that Nunez wasn't playing very well at all this game. I do agree that Coleman was playing very good though.


When COleman and Nunez were on the floor briefly they played well and were disruptive on D and Nunez was blocking shots! I would love to see Pangos, Coleman, Nunez, Dower and Karnowski out there for a few stretches! Stockton if KP isn't healthy. It is all about spreading the minutes around and keeping the whole rotation INVOLVED. I understand in "crunch time" going with a "trusted" few, but if they are tired it doesn't do much good.

JPtheBeasta
02-10-2014, 01:04 PM
Another thing I was irritated at was while Draino was on the floor, it seemed like noone would ever pass him the ball... he's the most unselfish player on the team, and tends to want to create for his teammates more than anyone else when he is in the game.

He needs to shoot more and be more aggressive off the bounce. He has the length to shoot over many guards, and the handle to get to good spots on the floor. Pangos, Bell and Stockton don't have the length to finish in traffic that he does. It's also hard to sink a game tying/winning shot at the end when you haven't shot much all game.

Zagceo
02-10-2014, 01:20 PM
At about the 12 min mark after a timeout Memphis adjusted to take away the high low action by bringing ball side player to the paint leaving baseline 3 shot wide open I kept screaming at tv for barham substitute as that is where he excels


When does questioning become a rant? Is this all for your own edification or is there a purpose because I don't think I've gleaned a single bit of knowledge about basketball or the TEAM from one of your posts. All I read is disappointment and criticism.

You spoke of your expectations in an earlier post that sounds like a personal problem to me.

Just to be clear IMO asking questions is all perfectly fine but when you really don't care for any answer other than your own opinion then it's not questioning it's a rant.

Go!! Zags!!!

I tend to agree with Hoop on his point.

It would have nice to see Coleman get more time in the second half. It would have been nice to have seen Nunez get more than a couple of minutes in the game.

When the shot clock is running down in critical possessions take a time out at the 10 sec mark and set up an out of bounds play.

It would have been nice to see KD get more minutes.

These are pretty much the same ideas that others have questioned on the board.

gonzagabasketball
02-10-2014, 01:27 PM
Last year's "disappointment" to you was more thanks to a broken foot by Gary Bell in which he was shutting down the WSU guards, and after he had left the game, WSU lit us up. I don't see it as a disappointment, I see it as bad luck.

I'm not sure where this opinion comes from, but Wsu hit 7 threes in each half, per espn.com box score. Bell was a loss to be sure, but he wasn't shutting down the perimeter by any stretch.

BobZag
02-10-2014, 02:44 PM
-----

Mr Vulture
02-10-2014, 03:10 PM
Wichita State advanced to the Final Four and lost to the National Champion by 4 points....they were hardly "mediocre". Considering how they have played this year I would say they were likely under seeded and peaking at the right time. I again will say that there were three shots in the last five minutes of the game that Wichita was lucky to make. One was a floating 3 while fading to the baseline, one was the turnaround 3pt heave with the shot clock running out, and the final one was the jumper that hit three spots before dropping. Things happen in the tournament, that is what makes it so compelling. In any case, I still don't see any correlation of that game in regards to coaching issues or this years less talented team.


It's my opinion and it's a common mistake around here to not let others have opinions...

Gonzaga has lost a ton of NCAA tournament games they shouldn't have (yes including LAST year) and I'm wondering why... The theme cannot be strictly luck.

Yes WSU is good, but they were mediocre last season and we absolutely had them on the ropes. Bringing up how good they are now is not relevant. We had them beat. Many teams did beat them last year, so obviously we failed to do something right and deserve some blame

Let me just say for the final time as I leave this thread, I love coach few and don't ever want him to go... And I will continue to watch GU basketball and expect less than I used to expect. Too much disappointment. Maybe that's my own fault and those hyping us up.


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gamagin
02-10-2014, 03:46 PM
Right now I'd prefer to see DS start at the point with KD at the two. KP and GB sit. Then go with Karno, SD and either Barham or GC. Never happen, of course. Far too creative. But reality bites and it's that KP is a shell and GB seems stuck in one.

I don't know who it would be off the top, but I'd like to see a 3 go in there once in awhile to do what the last four teams have done to us. Harass whomever under both nets. strip and block out and do whatever it takes to disrupt their bigs.

I think that's going to happen till we battle back. I don't want GC or AN to get ripped to shreds, so maybe it would be GB/KD or someone we haven't seen much of. fwiw. shem has had everything from that Mem goon to a thousand flies all over him since about the Portland win. None seem so much interested in basketball as in hack a shaq techniques.

jazzdelmar
02-10-2014, 03:57 PM
I don't know who it would be off the top, but I'd like to see a 3 go in there once in awhile to do what the last four teams have done to us. Harass whomever under both nets. strip and block out and do whatever it takes to disrupt their bigs.

I think that's going to happen till we battle back. I don't want GC or AN to get ripped to shreds, so maybe it would be GB/KD or someone we haven't seen much of. fwiw. shem has had everything from that Mem goon to a thousand flies all over him since about the Portland win. None seem so much interested in basketball as in hack a shaq techniques.

I don't believe we presently have such a player. Do you?

maynard g krebs
02-10-2014, 04:00 PM
It's my opinion and it's a common mistake around here to not let others have opinions...



When someone gives a plausible reason for what happened and someone else says "excuses", it's the latter, not the former, that is trying to "not let others have opinions". The reason is that it is a form of shaming the other poster into shutting up; i.e. like saying, "I'm a real man, so I don't accept excuses like you p u s s ies". So I consider it a form of bullying. Just my opinion; you are free to differ.

RenoZag
02-10-2014, 04:07 PM
We sure miss Mike Hart.