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View Full Version : Without the real Kevin Pangos we simply are going to be disappointed.



kclubfounder
02-08-2014, 07:19 PM
F you turf toe.

Sarenyon
02-08-2014, 07:22 PM
Agree. With a fully healthy Kevin, we might win that game. But we still showed we can play with athletic teams. Just need to execute better.

CdAZagFan
02-08-2014, 07:24 PM
Yes... Impressed we had the lead for most of the night, but truly disappointed in that finish.

izzjess
02-08-2014, 07:31 PM
sad but true

Hoopaholic
02-08-2014, 07:33 PM
with some defensive rebounds to limit their offensive rebounding we win the game

make the dunk or dont get the three point shot blocked we withstand the run

we had opportunities to win even with Kevins injury bug

montanazag88
02-08-2014, 07:39 PM
Coleman needs to come in when down by one and nobody else able to penetrate. Barham needs to be in there instead of Drano for the other three point threat. He's much better off the bench.

demian
02-08-2014, 07:40 PM
sad but true. inuries are a huge part of a season. I hate to admit it but its true. not making it an excuse its just a fact

Hoopaholic
02-08-2014, 07:41 PM
Coleman needs to come in when down by one and nobody else able to penetrate. Barham needs to be in there instead of Drano for the other three point threat. He's much better off the bench.

i agree barham should have been in but not for draino by for Shem and 4 out on 1 is what I was hoping to see

CDC84
02-08-2014, 07:42 PM
Kevin is 7-33 the past 4 games. Zags should've won the game tonight despite his performance, but let's be honest folks, the odds of GU beating many NCAA tournament teams with him performing like this aren't very good.

montanazag88
02-08-2014, 07:47 PM
i agree barham should have been in but not for draino by for Shem and 4 out on 1 is what I was hoping to see

You know that makes much more sense. I would add that Bilas was dead on when he pointed out we should have taken the drive instead of the Pangos three that missed and sealed the game for Memphis. Most coaches this year have done exactly that....driven and secured the 2 pint bucket and hope for the missed free throw on the other end. Memphis was not hitting free throws and the odds were much better putting them on the defensive on the charity stripe.

75Zag
02-08-2014, 07:51 PM
I would like to see Few rest Pangos for the remaining regular season games and use him in the WCC tournament only if GU can't get the job done without him. It appears to me that both his foot and his confidence need time to recover if he is going to be a team leader in the NCAAs.

Go Bulldogs!

CDC84
02-08-2014, 07:51 PM
Who's gonna drive it? Pangos? He can barely run. Coleman? 50% odds he turns it over. Bell was playing awful. Stockton had fouled out.

I felt the real killer was that one possession near the end where Gonzaga didn't even get a shot off....the possession where Dower banked in that shot just after the buzzer. The Dranginis three was a good shot, IMO.

madness
02-08-2014, 07:55 PM
Kevin is 7-33 the past 4 games. Zags should've won the game tonight despite his performance, but let's be honest folks, the odds of GU beating many NCAA tournament teams with him performing like this aren't very good.

Agree completely...time to sit him down and get him healthy for next season.

BTB
02-08-2014, 07:56 PM
Kevin is 7-33 the past 4 games. Zags should've won the game tonight despite his performance, but let's be honest folks, the odds of GU beating many NCAA tournament teams with him performing like this aren't very good.

What??? We lost to an extremely athletic top 25 team on the road barely while maintaining the lead almost the entire game. On a neutral court we probably win that game. Athletic teams are supposedly our achilles heal. Memphis is better than more than 50% of NCAA teams.. I'll take us winning at least one game easily.



I would like to see Few rest Pangos for the remaining regular season games and use him in the WCC tournament only if GU can't get the job done without him. It appears to me that both his foot and his confidence need time to recover if he is going to be a team leader in the NCAAs.

Go Bulldogs!

I understand wanting to rest him but 1 month of rest is not going to help turf toe.

BTB
02-08-2014, 07:57 PM
Who's gonna drive it? Pangos? He can barely run. Coleman? 50% odds he turns it over. Bell was playing awful. Stockton had fouled out.

I felt the real killer was that one possession near the end where Gonzaga didn't even get a shot off....the possession where Dower banked in that shot just after the buzzer. The Dranginis three was a good shot, IMO.

It was a very good look, Draino has yet to make a big shot but I am fully behind him taking that shot every time and I will always think it's going in

CDC84
02-08-2014, 07:57 PM
I felt that Memphis played awful tonight, and it had more to do with them than Gonzaga.

Bkzag
02-08-2014, 07:58 PM
with some defensive rebounds to limit their offensive rebounding we win the game

make the dunk or dont get the three point shot blocked we withstand the run

we had opportunities to win even with Kevins injury bug


Hoop,

You are exactly right...defensive rebounding would of limited their possessions. Heck we forced them into many bad shots which is why they shot 35% on their own floor. We had many chances to win this game BUT if that frog had wings...

Not liking that we can't close out games...that is two in a row (Portland and Memphis). This is my biggest concern about this team at present, we are not closing out games, which doesn't bode well.

BTB
02-08-2014, 07:59 PM
I felt that Memphis played awful tonight, and it had more to do with them than Gonzaga.

Disagree. Our defense is very good and extremely overrated. It sucked the first 10ish games but it has been the best defensive Gonzaga team I've seen since then.

pbriz
02-08-2014, 08:05 PM
Extra hard being a practicing physical therapist and not seeing Kevin heal up.

Would love to take a shot at his rehab. I know the staff is legit but on-going issues like this always make me wonder.

DixieZag
02-08-2014, 08:06 PM
Kevin is 7-33 the past 4 games. Zags should've won the game tonight despite his performance, but let's be honest folks, the odds of GU beating many NCAA tournament teams with him performing like this aren't very good.

Good post, b/c it is so true.

The other thing that's true? The guy is probably in immense pain and yet he's out there gritting it out, diving on the floor, getting RBs. Should he be out there? I have no idea but he's tough as hell and it's too bad for him he's a warrior and it has to just frustrate the hell out of him.

Zagceo
02-08-2014, 08:15 PM
Who's gonna drive it? Pangos? He can barely run. Coleman? 50% odds he turns it over. Bell was playing awful. Stockton had fouled out.

I felt the real killer was that one possession near the end where Gonzaga didn't even get a shot off....the possession where Dower banked in that shot just after the buzzer. The Dranginis three was a good shot, IMO.

You can't let the game boil down to one possession when your on the road. We lost because we could not compete on the boards. They had better athletes that were quicker to the ball. Oh well live and learn.

maynard g krebs
02-08-2014, 08:44 PM
It was a very good look, Draino has yet to make a big shot but I am fully behind him taking that shot every time and I will always think it's going in

Generally I agree with you, but I don't think he looks confident on those shots. And he seems to be the guy left open in those situations, probably not a coincidence. He does a lot of good things, but making big shots- not yet. Better as the passer imo.

Oregonzagnut
02-08-2014, 08:48 PM
PAngos has always struggled with road 3 pt percentage. His poor shooting was not toe related but it was partly why we lost. Rebounding and FT% also lost this for us.

Our masterful front court offense was a thing of beauty.... until Karno got blocked by JJ.

Section 116
02-08-2014, 08:51 PM
Jim Meehan ‏@SRJimm 14m
Pangos: "Big time, we blew a golden opportunity."

maynard g krebs
02-08-2014, 08:54 PM
Agree w/ the OP that this team is going nowhere beyond a WCC title and maybe one tourney win. The whole thing is based on KP. This team scored a ton of pts when he was healthy; now it's a plodding, pedestrian team. Defense has improved, but most of the top teams in the country simply have better athletes. GU's ticket to success with this roster is superior offensive execution, getting and making open shots or 1 on 1's in the post, and playing competent defense and hopefully staying close to even on the boards v good teams. Unfortunately GB doesn't play with the swagger to match his talent- he's happy to be second fiddle and complementary to KP, which was fine when KP was beating everybody off the dribble. But they have gone from being one of the best pair of scoring guards in the country to ineffective, and it looks like the only cure is the off season.

bballbeachbum
02-08-2014, 08:58 PM
Agree w/ the OP that this team is going nowhere beyond a WCC title and maybe one tourney win. The whole thing is based on KP. This team scored a ton of pts when he was healthy; now it's a plodding, pedestrian team. Defense has improved, but most of the top teams in the country simply have better athletes. GU's ticket to success with this roster is superior offensive execution, getting and making open shots or 1 on 1's in the post, and playing competent defense and hopefully staying close to even on the boards v good teams. Unfortunately GB doesn't play with the swagger to match his talent- he's happy to be second fiddle and complementary to KP, which was fine when KP was beating everybody off the dribble. But they have gone from being one of the best pair of scoring guards in the country to ineffective, and it looks like the only cure is the off season.

really? GBj is a wuss, won't go for it. wimp

this board sucks

Mantua
02-08-2014, 10:16 PM
really? GBj is a wuss, won't go for it. wimp

this board sucks

Gary looks very tired lately. I think it's a frustrating year for the team and for us. Getting the NCAA tournament and winning one game would be more than enough for me this year. Next year is going to be terrific. Love the Zags no matter what!

maynard g krebs
02-08-2014, 11:39 PM
really? GBj is a wuss, won't go for it. wimp

this board sucks

I didn't say that at all, and I'm sorry that you think it came off that way. Gary is my favorite player on the team, and I've been saying so for years. I saw close to a dozen of his games in hs, and I know what kind of scorer he's capable of being.
I don't criticize the coaches very often, but I've said I don't think they're maximizing Gary's abilities. Probably a poor choice of words on my part to say he doesn't play with the swagger to match his talent. What I meant was I hate seeing him pass up pretty good looks, especially since he's the team's best shooter when healthy.

I've said before that I think he's consciencious to a fault about doing things right and not making mistakes, and I think that comes partially from his personality and partly from how he's being coached. I'd just like to see him force the action a more, something he did regularly and successfully when becoming Washington's POY.

Hope that clears things up. I was pretty shocked by your response, and don't think it reflected what I said at all. Or is anything like anything I ever say about a player.

Reborn
02-09-2014, 12:06 AM
Gary has been one of my favorite players too, but I'm not going to make excuses for him. He is not playing well. It's the truth, and he got burned down the stretch time after time. It was the guy he was guarding who did the most damage. And Kyle Dranginis has regressed since Gary has come back. Too bad because Kyle was really improving. Few's got some tough decisions ahead, but this game will be one heck of an instructional tool in the next couple weeks. We all know that we have a Giant sized road trip coming up soon. Hopefully, the game today will help prepare the Zags for that road trip. I think it will.

Go Zags!!!

WallaWallaZag
02-09-2014, 05:10 AM
It was a very good look, Draino has yet to make a big shot but I am fully behind him taking that shot every time and I will always think it's going in

i agree with the shot...just wish it had been barham taking it instead of dranginis, but at least kyle pulled the trigger which is more than i can say for bell. i blame the coaching staff for bell's lack of development...he's becoming less assertive as he gets older...he was more aggressive as a freshman, though his skills have probably improved since then.

Reborn
02-09-2014, 05:13 AM
For some reason since Gary Bell has returned to the lineup, our bench has really not performed up to speed. Usually one guy does, but at a group they are not scoring as much as I thought they would. Last night neither Drew Barham or Kyle Dranginis scored a single point. Barham only got 5 minutes but Dranginis got 15 minutes. He seems to have regressed back to the old Kyle Dranginis who just plays it safe on the offensive end. Honestly, I have never seen guards, as a group, play as poorly on offense as our guards have played in the last month. It's very frustrating to watch. To watch them dribble around without being aggressive, and making simple, safe passes outside, as if they were playing "Keep Away," until the clock winds down to 6 seconds and then someone hoists it up from 25 feet. Not good...............................

Go Zags!!!

WallaWallaZag
02-09-2014, 05:47 AM
For some reason since Gary Bell has returned to the lineup, our bench has really not performed up to speed. Usually one guy does, but at a group they are not scoring as much as I thought they would. Last night neither Drew Barham or Kyle Dranginis scored a single point. Barham only got 5 minutes but Dranginis got 15 minutes. He seems to have regressed back to the old Kyle Dranginis who just plays it safe on the offensive end. Honestly, I have never seen guards, as a group, play as poorly on offense as our guards have played in the last month. It's very frustrating to watch. To watch them dribble around without being aggressive, and making simple, safe passes outside, as if they were playing "Keep Away," until the clock winds down to 6 seconds and then someone hoists it up from 25 feet. Not good...............................

agree with most, though gotta give some credit memphis on this one...they have the athleticism to pressure and shut down the zag guards. not many open looks and definitely no driving lanes. stockton played decent considering he's always going to have some struggles against bcs athletes...pangos can't carry the load with his turf toe issue, so it really is up to bell, dranginis, and coleman to be the difference makers. coleman did his part about as well as one could expect as you're always gonna get the good with the bad with him. needed more out of bell and dranginis in this one...those two have the athleticism to at least compete with memphis guards, but they both seem to have similar problems being assertive offensively.

Reborn
02-09-2014, 06:10 AM
agree with most, though gotta give some credit memphis on this one...they have the athleticism to pressure and shut down the zag guards. not many open looks and definitely no driving lanes. stockton played decent considering he's always going to have some struggles against bcs athletes...pangos can't carry the load with his turf toe issue, so it really is up to bell, dranginis, and coleman to be the difference makers. coleman did his part about as well as one could expect as you're always gonna get the good with the bad with him. needed more out of bell and dranginis in this one...those two have the athleticism to at least compete with memphis guards, but they both seem to have similar problems being assertive offensively.

Yes. Stockton played well, imo. David is not counted on to score, usually, and he was delivering some good passes. His defense wasn't hurting us, it was Bell who hurt us on D last night. The problem with the Zags right now is that our guards are not stepping up and doing what they need to do on offense. I don't know if our problem can be rectified or not because our best three point shooter is Kevin and he is just not going to be able to get 'er done against a team that plays great defense.

bartruff1
02-09-2014, 07:38 AM
I am no expert, and I have no inside information, I only know what I read in the media and I am always skeptical of them....

BUT...it is painful for me to watch Kevin play hurt.. I wish Mark would let him rest till he is nearly 100% even if that means till next year. Now, if I knew what the coaches know, I might have a different opinion.

I also have to admit , that I let my own play (that were cleared by our doctor) ...they really really want to play and so it is very difficult to say no when they only have a limited number of seasons and games available.

BobZag
02-09-2014, 09:31 AM
Earlier I called it The Fatal Toe.

Imagine what the tourney in Vegas will do to The Toe. No rest. It will be the downfall of this team. Fatal. I blame it for everything. Lack of world peace, global warming, famine, et al, all due to The Fatal Toe.

DixieZag
02-09-2014, 09:38 AM
Earlier I called it The Fatal Toe.

Imagine what the tourney in Vegas will do to The Toe. No rest. It will be the downfall of this team. Fatal. I blame it for everything. Lack of world peace, global warming, famine, et al, all due to The Fatal Toe.

Is that true? I thought that the toe loosens up some and that's why he's been playing better in the second halves, I might almost think he'd play better with a bunch of games in a row, but - I have no idea.

It really is looking like we should have rested him the two months or whatever it took - aahhhhh, I don't know.

I think it would be interesting if we sat him until the WCC tourney. Even if it doesn't do Kevin a ton of good (can it harm him?), I think the message to the team, "Kevin is not there to bail your asses, you have to start doing it on your own (Gary), would make them a little more aggressive and bring them together to win for their gimper.

Hoopaholic
02-09-2014, 09:39 AM
I always chuckle when some think the TEAM game success rests with a single player......we have skilled players at all positions that can compete with just about any other team as has been demonstrated even last night.......kevins toes and ankle makes him an average player yet we take a top 25 team on their court to the last minutes leading most of the game......



and as far as guard play and scoring, that was exactly what Memphis gameplanned to prevent and they went ALL out both PHYSICALLY as well as structurally to ensure guard could not shoot.....we simply did not make adjustments on how to get the ball to the open post players....we didnt go to the Guard Triangle with double low block, we failed to adjust to the corner opening when memphis started dropping off to hedge the paint while hard fronts occured, I saw no post screen action block to block or elbow to block, I saw way too much of Shem popping out at the three line as the feeder instead of leaving him at the block and use dower who can shoot it, saw way to much wing standing and not staying busy thus keepin memphis winng defenders busy as they tried to face guard us.......

Then on defense you KNEW they were going to start shoving it down our throats as they were getting the bump calls and I saw no adjustment from our players to address the hard dribble drive......

Vanzagger
02-09-2014, 10:15 AM
Everyone of our scholly players the last 10+ years has had major BCS interest, well can't confirm Hoff & Keita. Don't make excuses.

bballbeachbum
02-09-2014, 10:35 AM
I didn't say that at all, and I'm sorry that you think it came off that way. Gary is my favorite player on the team, and I've been saying so for years. I saw close to a dozen of his games in hs, and I know what kind of scorer he's capable of being.
I don't criticize the coaches very often, but I've said I don't think they're maximizing Gary's abilities. Probably a poor choice of words on my part to say he doesn't play with the swagger to match his talent. What I meant was I hate seeing him pass up pretty good looks, especially since he's the team's best shooter when healthy.

I've said before that I think he's consciencious to a fault about doing things right and not making mistakes, and I think that comes partially from his personality and partly from how he's being coached. I'd just like to see him force the action a more, something he did regularly and successfully when becoming Washington's POY.

Hope that clears things up. I was pretty shocked by your response, and don't think it reflected what I said at all. Or is anything like anything I ever say about a player.

hey maynard, fully aware of your history with Gary which is why your post got that response from me. thanks for your explanation

watching how he's utilized is very interesting, definitely agree with that. we appear to disagree on some of his strengths and weaknesses tho, but there's no disagreeing with where he's gone since his return, from stopping Dee late at USD to hitting 3s at SCU, to doing his typical blending role and second half scorer thing up until last Wednesday's new Gary, and finally yesterday. this new role of being more assertive has backfired, my opinion

Ezag
02-09-2014, 10:52 AM
F you turf toe.

+100000000

ZAGLAWQB
02-09-2014, 12:19 PM
2 seasons; 1st is Pre and WCC where KP can factor in highly both healthy and restricted. 2nd is "Madness"; if he were a 6'6" wing he could factor in and carry a huge load, but realty says, healthy or not, he is a defensible target if relied on too heavily. So, recognizing that now will allow players and coaches to prepare.
Last night closing minutes saw a competitive team takes us out of rhythm with their style and strength. We are bright enough and talented enough to recognize that in order to begin making small adjustments to score consistently till the buzzer sounds.

kclubfounder
02-09-2014, 06:13 PM
Defenses adjust to Kevin. I'm sure the injury isn't helping, but he's moving pretty good. Defenses give him the Ray Allen treatment and he lacks the size, speed and athleticism to beat it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, you believe his injury is a minor issue. You believe his problems this year are based primarily on a lack of athleticism and speed.

Wow.

maynard g krebs
02-09-2014, 06:44 PM
he's moving pretty good.

"Pretty good" is a subjective phrase, isn't it? Yes, he doesn't have elite size, speed, or athleticism. What he does have, when healthy, is an assortment of quick, clever, and creative moves that he can use to beat defenders. During that stretch when he was averaging like 25 a game and making everything, before the injury, defenses couldn't adjust to him, and there are 2 years of film on him- it's not like nobody knows what he does.

It seems pretty obvious to most that he's a shell of himself now. Can't push off normally on a jumper or a drive.

There have been great scorers in basketball that weren't big or super athletic going back to Gail Goodrich at UCLA 50 years ago.

Zags11
02-09-2014, 06:45 PM
Gary has been one of my favorite players too, but I'm not going to make excuses for him. He is not playing well. It's the truth, and he got burned down the stretch time after time. It was the guy he was guarding who did the most damage. And Kyle Dranginis has regressed since Gary has come back. Too bad because Kyle was really improving. Few's got some tough decisions ahead, but this game will be one heck of an instructional tool in the next couple weeks. We all know that we have a Giant sized road trip coming up soon. Hopefully, the game today will help prepare the Zags for that road trip. I think it will.

Go Zags!!!
This.

maynard g krebs
02-09-2014, 10:17 PM
I just get sick of the excuses. He's moving pretty darn good.

One could say that one gets sick of hearing people who can't, or won't, differentiate between an excuse and an explanation.

As to how well he's moving, well, we all know the saying about opinions.

OZZY
02-09-2014, 10:32 PM
I just get sick of the excuses. He's moving pretty darn good. Like I said I'm sure it's holding him back some, but not solely to blame for the last handful of games when he's been brutal. He's pretty one dimensional


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You obviously have not seen the same player as most of us. For someone who has made only a couple of dozen posts I am surprised you are being so critical.

KP is not one dimensional, he is able to drive, shoot, pass and run the team on the floor. You look at the huddles during the game, he is the player they all look to for leadership. His his ability to drive/shoot and defend has been affected by his toe/ankle issues.

bartruff1
02-10-2014, 04:30 AM
One could say that one gets sick of hearing people who can't, or won't, differentiate between an excuse and an explanation.

As to how well he's moving, well, we all know the saying about opinions.

Yup.... that is my opinion.