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View Full Version : Is It good for the WCC as a WHOLE



gonzagafan62
02-03-2014, 12:32 PM
Sorry If you guys have already discussed this, but I have not seen this yet, until today, so bear with me and my rant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_West_Coast_Conference_Men's_Basketball_Tourna ment

For the #1 and #2 seeds to have to start the WCC tournament in the second round? They used to start playing in the semifinals (which I liked) and now they have to win 3 games? I think this will hurt the league in the very near future, and potentially this year (Saint Mary's, BYU, and Gonzaga)...

First off, there are no real wins that can help either of the three teams above on getting a realistic shot at an at large berth. Secondly, even if you are the #3 team and have to play in quarterfinal play, that's what the regular season is for. Win your dang games.

Secondly, I really think that the regular season is being compromised a bit, because we SHOULD have the two best teams play in the semi-finals.

And Lastly, I know we had only 9 teams last year, and we didn't compromise the tournament at all really but had a play-in game. Why not have 2 play in games, and have the tournament go on as normal? I liked the untraditional tournament that doesn't compromise the regular season, yet rewards you for A) having the best record... B) beating your rivals... and C) puts you in line for the tournament berth.

I really do not like this stupid "traditional" format on the WCC Tournament. What really do the winners of the regular season gain by making them play more games? Leave it alone!!!!! The rest of the league is still alive till the bitter end, but keeps the better teams out of danger longer. This is terrible.

cjm720
02-03-2014, 12:37 PM
Interesting, hadn't noticed that the seeding/playoffs had changed, thanks for posting.

I really disliked the old format where some teams had to win 4 games and the top seeds would only have to win 2 games to make the auto-bid. I disliked it because I thought it was an unfair advantage, albeit one that usually helped the Zags.

I would have liked to see the seeding realign after every game, so the #1 seed plays the lowest numbered seed still around (similar to the NFL).

gonzagafan62
02-03-2014, 12:55 PM
Interesting, hadn't noticed that the seeding/playoffs had changed, thanks for posting.

I really disliked the old format where some teams had to win 4 games and the top seeds would only have to win 2 games to make the auto-bid. I disliked it because I thought it was an unfair advantage, albeit one that usually helped the Zags.

I would have liked to see the seeding realign after every game, so the #1 seed plays the lowest numbered seed still around (similar to the NFL).

I see your point, but I think that all the work that has gone on, and you still have to play potentially the last ranked team in your conference again. I mean really? I guess if you are the number one team in the conference you SHOULDNT have a problem with them, but I think its crazy and will end up burning the conference trying to get in more than just one team every year. That's the way I see it, but then again, I can see the other side of things too.

jazzdelmar
02-03-2014, 01:02 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$

gonzagafan62
02-03-2014, 01:07 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$

We know its for the money Jazz. Maybe for the money they spend going to these silly NCAA Tournament games, right? :lmao:

cjm720
02-03-2014, 01:19 PM
Most conferences are set up like this anyway, as you pointed out. Just another obstacle and also helps to explain out our limited OOC schedule this year.

Zagdawg
02-03-2014, 01:26 PM
As we are aware the top seeds should win -- but as it has been pointed out previously -- it adds one more lower RPI game to our schedule.

I like the idea of the play in that is mentioned above -- but the $ idea is to get the Gonzaga/BYU/St Marys fans to the arena a little bit earlier (a day) rather than the 20 fans that will travel with the bottom end of the WCC.

Can you imagine the creative camerawork that would need to be done if anyone televised the playin game with the 20 fans that would show up.

As Jazz mentioned.....it's all about the $$$ and the upper end teams bring it in to the WCC.

jazzdelmar
02-03-2014, 01:31 PM
We know its for the money Jazz. Maybe for the money they spend going to these silly NCAA Tournament games, right? :lmao:

I don't understand what you are saying. The NCAA pays the schools to participate in its tourney.

Zagdawg
02-03-2014, 01:33 PM
So our first game will be Saturday then Monday then Tuesday (if we continue to win).

The Championship game will occur Tuesday.

Overall (1st games Thursday, 2nd games Saturday, 3rd games Monday and 4th game Tuesday).
Days off on Friday and Sunday.

gonzagafan62
02-03-2014, 01:37 PM
So our first game will be Saturday then Monday then Tuesday (if we continue to win).

The Championship game will occur Tuesday.

Overall (1st games Thursday, 2nd games Saturday, 3rd games Monday and 4th game Tuesday).
Days off on Friday and Sunday.

Yup. Would Anthony Ireland's last year performance in the WCC knock off the Zags? Remember I think they played 3 days in a row (maybe 3 of 4) before playing GU which was a great advantage in the postseason.

gonzagafan62
02-03-2014, 01:38 PM
I don't understand what you are saying.

Most teams lose $$$$$ by advancing further in the tournament (short term obviously)

EDIT: And I am not sure how the WCC payout is for teams continuing to advance in the WCC tournament is, but I joked that they can pay us the one game extra to go advance In the NCAA's.

jazzdelmar
02-03-2014, 01:42 PM
No. In the NCAA big dance the longer a team goes the more $$$$ it and it's league gets. The WCC is prob a flat fee for all.

Zagdawg
02-03-2014, 01:44 PM
Article that talks about what each team/conference gets for playing and winning in the dance from Forbes magazine last year.

Game unit is up to $250K per year for 6 years -- so playing in a game pays out $1.5 million to the conference (and they divide it across all the schools) -- and for each additional win you just keep adding an additional $1.5 mil (for this upcoming dance).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/03/21/a-single-ncaa-tournament-victory-is-worth-1-5-million/

jazzdelmar
02-03-2014, 01:46 PM
Article that talks about what each team/conference gets for playing and winning in the dance from Forbes magazine last year.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/03/21/a-single-ncaa-tournament-victory-is-worth-1-5-million/

Excellent, great find ZD.

gonzagafan62
02-03-2014, 01:48 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24425654/report-wichita-state-actually-lost-money-by-making-the-final-four

Like I said its for the short term, but Wichita State lost money for making the Final Four.

CDC84
02-03-2014, 02:06 PM
The thing that we should all be thankful for is that there is a day off in between the quarters and the semis. The better teams don't have to play 3 games in 3 days. That doesn't happen with most conferences.

Oregonzagnut
02-03-2014, 02:19 PM
Those who say we are a weak conference are misinformed. (Not that anyone here would say that) We are the 9th best conference out of 32 and we were the 8th best prior to our conference starting. We are significantly better than average and we are better than the Mountain West, Conference USA, and Missouri Valley. And we are clearly the best mid-major, non-football conference. There are about 10-12 conferences with Division 1 football that have a lower RPI than the WCC.

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

We are not elite yet, but we are far better than average.

Zagdawg
02-03-2014, 02:39 PM
Overall the conference is good-- so the impact of this additional game will not be as bad as past years on the RPI.

The potential 8/9 opponents that we might face in the 1st game (depending on how each team finishes out the conf schedule)

(current rank and RPI)

6 Portland 159
7 San Diego 154
8 Pacific 98
9 Loyola M. 135
10 Santa Clara 215

cjm720
02-03-2014, 02:53 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24425654/report-wichita-state-actually-lost-money-by-making-the-final-four

Like I said its for the short term, but Wichita State lost money for making the Final Four.

Interesting and surprising.

Zagdawg
02-03-2014, 03:09 PM
I can't believe they didn't forecast and add into the budget the funds necessary for a final 4 trip at the start of their fiscal calendar-- way to have some confidence in the team ;).

75Zag
02-03-2014, 04:12 PM
I have no idea what most of you are talking about, but winning each NCAA tournament game is worth about $1.9 million dollars for the team (or for the conference depending on how revenue is shared). Win 2 games and you have 3.8 million dollars. Get to the Final Four and get 9.5 million for your school or your conference.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/03/14/march-madness-a-trip-to-the-final-four-is-worth-9-5-million/

Ever wonder why University of the Pacific wanted to join the WCC? Ever seen one of those Nature Channel television shows where the little fish suck the parasites off the sharks? Perhaps Pacific should change its name to the Fighting Parasites.

Go Bulldogs!

DixieZag
02-03-2014, 05:22 PM
I don't know how much this fits into the discussion, but - one of the things that used to frustrate the Coaches and the A.D. the most was dismissive attitude the conference had toward the Zags and their success, we all know the story of the conference tournament etc. I don't know how the long term situation is going to play out with the tourney, it does sound like this is pretty much the format most teams are stuck with throughout the country but

If in the future GU felt like they were being taken for granted or paying a price to drag dead weight around, at least now there's a legitimate threat out there to go elsewhere. That alone helps me to think that our concerns will be heard fairly.

75Zag
02-03-2014, 06:50 PM
Dixie, I agree with some of your thinking but long ago I gave up on arguing that the Bulldogs should leave the WCC. If you make that argument, you will quickly be torn apart by those who believe that it is equally important to keep the women's junior varsity handball team in the WCC than caring about which conference the Men's BB team plays in.

I don't get it, but I give up.

Go Bulldogs!

ZagsGoZags
02-03-2014, 07:30 PM
nice to see you back posting on our Board Jazz

CdAZagFan
02-03-2014, 09:52 PM
I don't know if I am as concerned about the reformatting of the tourney, as much as I am, and have been for quite awhile, about the long layoff between the end of the WCC tourney and the start of the NCAA tourney. As long as they are expanding the WCC tourney, I almost wish it would be played out a week later. In my opinion, I just don't think it does anyone much good to have that long of a layoff before the tournament (unless there is some serious healing to do...). It seems like the final four teams are usually always ones that play on that last weekend before the tournament starts... And I thought especially last year that GU came out flat and not as sharp for those first couple of games.

gonzagafan62
02-04-2014, 06:30 AM
I don't know if I am as concerned about the reformatting of the tourney, as much as I am, and have been for quite awhile, about the long layoff between the end of the WCC tourney and the start of the NCAA tourney. As long as they are expanding the WCC tourney, I almost wish it would be played out a week later. In my opinion, I just don't think it does anyone much good to have that long of a layoff before the tournament (unless there is some serious healing to do...). It seems like the final four teams are usually always ones that play on that last weekend before the tournament starts... And I thought especially last year that GU came out flat and not as sharp for those first couple of games.

I agree with this as well. Ive been wanting it all to be closer, if not on the last weekend too.

bballbeachbum
02-04-2014, 08:08 AM
interesting thread, lots of cool links and perspectives on many topics.

on WCC tournament seeding, the top seeded teams deserve an easy road to the ncaa tournament because they earned it throughout the regular season imo, it gives the regular season some teeth. the other teams still have a chance in Vegas but it's got to be more miraculous to do it. I liked it the old way for that reason but being a fan of the underdog I can see the other side, and can even make a good argument for it I think.

the break between the WCC and ncaa tourney has been and continues to be an issue; it can help heal up nagging injuries but can also flatten energy. have to figure out how to overcome it, use it, easier said than done probably

cjm720
02-04-2014, 08:40 AM
I've always figured the WCC doesn't adequately prepare us for the big dance, but maybe it's the long wait between the end of the conference tourney and the big dance. Probably a bit of both...

maynard g krebs
02-04-2014, 11:37 AM
If in the future GU felt like they were being taken for granted or paying a price to drag dead weight around, at least now there's a legitimate threat out there to go elsewhere.

I'm curious about what you mean by this. Eastern leagues too far away; WCC is best non-football conf in west. So what's the threat to go elsewhere?