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Zags11
01-24-2014, 11:02 PM
We would all get along. We would never be critical of others. We would hold hands and hug it out.

In reality, this board has become like all the other college boards we used to clown. The one's who acted like 12yr old boys and girls. We hsve become this. I dont agree with gam or kc alot but more so because they get so personal. I dont always agree with liz or dixie.

I love this board because we are a huge zag family and had our spats but most of all had a true understanding of eavh other. I love reborns spirit, I love jazzdelmar anger....lol. I love gonzaga basketball but WE are KILLING us. Pretty soon this board will resemble a shell of its former self.

I didnt mean to use names but names I could remember. Lets keep this board going. We all can differ, but the childish insults have to go.

maineblackbear
01-24-2014, 11:34 PM
whatever. Look I am sorry that Reborn is mad at gamegin and bigblaha agreed with him. So what.

This board has gone to **** in the last year for a few reasons, but the main reason is that NOBODY POSTS ANYMORE.

Its the same 10 people OVER AND OVER.

I have a list of GU insiders but those people don't post anymore (Broncozag, where are you?)

So we are left with a bunch of 65 year old people who think that anything they have to say matters.

And some of it does-- I like Reborn. I do. I really like Jazz. I love CDC, BobZag, MDZag, and the others. But only Bobzag and Zagazag and a few others are posting things that are valuable.

The deal is that we used to have posters who would say something and we could parse through it. Many of them had hints and tips.

Now, its all nonsense.

I need the info. Scoutboard sucks, this board has fallen to ****, Gozags is nothing and even TSSF is pretty mainstream.

Sad, to say, that this might be the last month I am here. After March I may slip away only to lurk very occasionally or not at all.


"Where, oh, where are you tonight?
Why did you leave me here all alone?
I searched the world over trying to Zag-it
Came to the Guboards....
and phhhhhppppppbbbttttt
I was gone."

gozagswoohoo
01-25-2014, 12:33 AM
Very well said Zags11....very well said...

And maineblackbear- I am offended that I wasn't listed as one of the ones who posts with value! Those ms paint drawings take HOURS! ;-)

ZagsGoZags
01-25-2014, 01:25 AM
I disagree. I learn a great deal from various members of the board, getting to talk to, and listen to, loyal zag fans is part it. Everyone does not have to make valuable contributions, but to be part of a board that is devoted to our team, our coach, our zags. I know some posters insinuate and defend but we still have more class than any college BB board I have seen. I don't think of this board as a place where only knowledgeable, insightful, posters with lots of BB smarts can post. I think of this board as a place where supporters and analyzers of the team can create and enjoy a COMMUNITY. Some may be snobbish about their knowledge from time to time, but for the most part I think most people on here treat each others as members of the community, and are often silent when they could have said something nasty.
On the whole it is a package deal. Yes some personalities get in the way, but for a zag lover it is still the best electronic place in town to be.

ZagaZags
01-25-2014, 01:58 AM
I disagree. I learn a great deal from various members of the board, getting to talk to, and listen to, loyal zag fans is part it. Everyone does not have to make valuable contributions, but to be part of a board that is devoted to our team, our coach, our zags. I know some posters insinuate and defend but we still have more class than any college BB board I have seen. I don't think of this board as a place where only knowledgeable, insightful, posters with lots of BB smarts can post. I think of this board as a place where supporters and analyzers of the team can create and enjoy a COMMUNITY. Some may be snobbish about their knowledge from time to time, but for the most part I think most people on here treat each others as members of the community, and are often silent when they could have said something nasty.
On the whole it is a package deal. Yes some personalities get in the way, but for a zag lover it is still the best electronic place in town to be.

+ 100,000. This has always been my point. All fans should post here on GU Boards. If people don't agree with you, they can respectfully disagree. We all love the Zags and we all want the same thing. Again I ask more people to get involved with this great place we have here.

I want Jazz back.

gozagswoohoo
01-25-2014, 06:13 AM
How do you disagree, but in the very next sentence say 'if people disagree with you, they can respectfully disagree'? That's exactly the point (or what I personally take away from it) of the OP. People AREN'T respectfully disagreeing. The tone around here the last few months is so harsh and some much less friendly than it used to be, and that seems to me to be the problem.

Just me though.

cjm720
01-25-2014, 07:00 AM
Make more interesting posts and provide more technical analyses rather than opinion.

It would also be nice if threads stuck to the OP. happens with most posts like the JC recruit thread...dudes a 2/3 and the conversation morphs to a discussion on bigs. Dedicated threads will have more last IMO.

GrizZAG
01-25-2014, 07:27 AM
How do you disagree, but in the very next sentence say 'if people disagree with you, they can respectfully disagree'? That's exactly the point (or what I personally take away from it) of the OP. People AREN'T respectfully disagreeing. The tone around here the last few months is so harsh and some much less friendly than it used to be, and that seems to me to be the problem.

Just me though.

I, like woohoo and others never took a class at Gonzaga. Why are we here? Do the Esteemed Alums want us here?

WooHoo I am not as creative and hilarious as you but I am on this bus for the same reasons you have stated in the past. We are supportive for lots of reasons, too many to list actually.
I doubt either of us are going away.

This board at times is a bit condescending and exclusive towards the non-coms so to speak. Some seem to have a hair bit of grandiose self esteem. Fortunately there are some really knowledgable folks like Hoop and the number crunch crowd that give us awesome insights. Others are really good giving perspectives, analysis and creativity. That's why I participate, never miss a game and stay loyal. Mark Few is the other reason, he brings so much class to Gonzaga. Gonzaga puts Spokane on the map..period!
The guys that help others remote with streams (fishing now), the heartfelt prayers for comrades, show the supportive nature here over and over. Ghost zag is a saint for sure.

I think every board gets testy and a little nutty when their team is below expectations. We are no exception. The posters that are tools seem to eventually disappear fortunately, or mods take care of business. Great job team.
Fans follow a team they like, plain and simple. That's why WooHoo and I are here. This is not an exclusive "Gonzaga" only board is it? I think not! It is a Gonzaga Basketball Forum....Yes?

What is puzzling to me are those who seem to want to criticize or attack others so easily here. Issues?

Love ya and I ain't goin away.
Griz

bigblahla
01-25-2014, 07:51 AM
I am 100% a Zag fan no other college or pro TEAM has my allegiance. I believe this board is a place you can speak your mind but it is important as to how you say it. I don't believe that coach, staff and players deserve a free pass but I do believe that every board member should be respectful in discussions about them. IMO Kidding and Sarcasm are one thing insults another.

Example -Stocks had a tough game last night...... is not the same as Stocks sucks he only plays because of his last name. Straight up if you read those examples and can't see the difference then we will be at odds here. Not because I'm better not because I'm the boss but because I do know the difference between the right and wrong way to present an idea. If and when the mods get tired of me they'll let me know but I don't believe I've ever fired the first shot and as Maynard posted a few days back.....it's like defending family.

Is respectful conversation about the games and program too much to ask here?

As to the prolific poster who administered the public berating to me it's pretty obvious from two threads being closed in the last few days due to emotional outbursts that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. No one is picking on you Mr. Prolific in spite of what you think.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

Reborn
01-25-2014, 08:02 AM
Very well said Zags11....very well said...

And maineblackbear- I am offended that I wasn't listed as one of the ones who posts with value! Those ms paint drawings take HOURS! ;-)

Hey Woohoo! I love your "I had a dream last night" posts. They are are great way to begin my day, laughing. You're creativity is beyond reproach. And you know that everyone loves Francis. He's become a star. Keep it up. I always look forward to that post. And any other ideas you have as you are loved here on GU Boards. You're one fantastic fan.

VinnyZag
01-25-2014, 08:07 AM
Couple of points:

1) I feel like most of the people who have real insight into the program are still here

2) If fewer people are posting, I'd bet it's because the team isn't as good this year. I obviously don't have access to site traffic stats, but it seems like this is normal. Lots of traffic last year, or in Morrison's year, when the team is great; fewer posters when the team is less great. That's totally understandable and surely must be true of fans of any team or sport.

3) What's with the age-ism? Both recent threads on this subject have included a gratuitous shot at older posters. I don't get it. For full disclosure, I'm ~40.

Maybe I'm tone deaf, but I personally haven't noted a change in tone. Whatever. This will be the last time I post in one of these navel gazing "whatever happened to the old days" threads. Let's get back to talking about basketball.

deathchina
01-25-2014, 08:14 AM
As a former poster and long time lurker...I actually think the board is moderately more interesting these days. I've always felt like this board more resembled a Gonzaga promotional tool than an actual discussion forum. Used to be just a lot of Zag fans patting themselves on the back about how amazing EVERYTHING about our team was. Anyone disagreeing was quickly branded a UW fan.

At least now these people have their Zag fandom questioned, instead of their team affiliation. I call that progress.

Maybe in 10 more years we can start having fair discussions about the state of GU basketball.





We would all get along. We would never be critical of others. We would hold hands and hug it out.

In reality, this board has become like all the other college boards we used to clown. The one's who acted like 12yr old boys and girls. We hsve become this. I dont agree with gam or kc alot but more so because they get so personal. I dont always agree with liz or dixie.

I love this board because we are a huge zag family and had our spats but most of all had a true understanding of eavh other. I love reborns spirit, I love jazzdelmar anger....lol. I love gonzaga basketball but WE are KILLING us. Pretty soon this board will resemble a shell of its former self.

I didnt mean to use names but names I could remember. Lets keep this board going. We all can differ, but the childish insults have to go.

23dpg
01-25-2014, 08:22 AM
I am 100% a Zag fan no other college or pro TEAM has my allegiance. I believe this board is a place you can speak your mind but it is important as to how you say it. I don't believe that coach, staff and players deserve a free pass but I do believe that every board member should be respectful in discussions about them. IMO Kidding and Sarcasm are one thing insults another.

Example -Stocks had a tough game last night...... is not the same as Stocks sucks he only plays because of his last name. Straight up if you read those examples and can't see the difference then we will be at odds here. Not because I'm better not because I'm the boss but because I do know the difference between the right and wrong way to present an idea. If and when the mods get tired of me they'll let me know but I don't believe I've ever fired the first shot and as Maynard posted a few days back.....it's like defending family.

Is respectful conversation about the games and program too much to ask here?

As to the prolific poster who administered the public berating to me it's pretty obvious from two threads being closed in the last few days due to emotional outbursts that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. No one is picking on you Mr. Prolific in spite of what you think.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

+1 Blah!

I cringe when I read some of the posts around here. Just because you defend a player against incredible statements (can't play, brings nothing to the team, player X does everything that player Y does, only better, I could go on and on and on), doesn't mean that you think the player is above critiquing. But let's be reasonable. I think the large majority of fans see the strengths and flaws of the players relatively fairly. A vocal minority just see the flaws and state such in a demeaning way.

I will admit to being one of the posters mentioned in the OP. I use to post on here all the time. I have dropped off significantly due to the mean spirited negativity that I perceive on this board. This is especially true on the game posts. The SSF is worse than this board on that one. I'm sorry, but once a player puts on the Gonzaga uniform, I will support them. That doesn't mean that I won't mention certain weaknesses (i.e. bad hands, cheats on defense, poor rebounder, poor passer) but I refuse to bring it down to a level of ridicule or despise. There is a difference.

maineblackbear
01-25-2014, 08:53 AM
Here is an example: Robin Williams is a fine actor. He has made excellent films and is fabulous in World's Greatest Dad, Insomnia, One Hour Photo.

It is not an attack on Robin Williams to say he is terrible in Popeye. Just awful. Its a bad film that fails on almost every level, but his performance is particularly bad. He is also terrible in Jumanji though that movie has retained a certain level of cachet among some people.

How is that a personal attack on Robin Williams?

Its not. Its an assessment. And there are a lot of posters on this board who have a lot of basketball experience and knowledge who post professional opinions and those professional opinions are then responded to in a way that makes the poster feel attacked. I could use a lot of examples here.

Then there is the circular firing squads after losses--different issue. Usually thats frustration from lesser posters. In fact, I rarely go on the board for 24-48 hours after a loss, unless there is another game coming right up (Maui for example).

But when player XY has a bad game, or has a large body of work that we can draw from, it is not attacking a player to say -- He had a bad game. Hell, the player knows it, Few has been chewing on his butt since the end of the game. (Few is a well known negative motivator). It is also not wrong to say Player XY might not be a good fit for this program (Morninghoff got me a burger a couple of years ago, but was it wrong to say that he and Keita were not d1 players? Apparently--people said it about them and were howled at by the chorus).

Additionally, I think every player that comes to Gonzaga knows what they are in for. This is not the Gonzaga of 1998 or 1988 or 1978. We are not a happy fuzzy fun little puppy anymore. We are a professional program with essentially professional players who choose to come here when they have quite literally hundreds of other options.

This does not mean that we should say Player XY is a child molester, a bad person, and the brother of the Anti-Christ. But no-one does. People say player XY had a bad game. Poster next says "You can't say that you are personally attacking him." Not true. The personal attack is the second poster. Deathchina is right that there is more criticism than there used to be. And there is more pushing and pulling.

But it does appear that the posters with inside info don't post as often.

Sorry for leaving you out Woohoo. You are one of my favorite posters and you have been forever.

I apologize for age-ist comment. I am old, too, actually, but I just want more inside info and I am wondering where those posters have gone. This is my best guess.

willandi
01-25-2014, 09:24 AM
I am 65 and I think the problem is all the whippersnappers that think they know something. They are all still wet behind the ears! In my day we used to walk... well you know.
I try not to be too critical of the players, they are young and are trying hard. I understand that when they have a bad game it is right to acknowledge that, but Gonzaga IS a Div1 team, so by definition EVERY player on the team is a Div1 player and EVERY starter IS a Div1 starter. To maintain anything different is showing ignorance.
I am a staunch supporter of Mark Few. I too question some of his decisions, but he has a long track record as a successful coach. I feel that, before you can totally dis him (pretty good word for an old fart, huh?) you should be able to show SOME sort of accomplishment...not to say he is above criticism.
Lastly (running out of fingers), the individual players can't help being what they are. If they are under 6' and that bothers you, well, be bothered...they can't change it, if they have hands of stone, feet of lead, short arms, I believe that they are trying to give it their best. I think that Coach WANTS to win every game, and does what he thinks is best.
And I try to inject a little humor in, now and then (had to use a toe for that one). We all are here because we are Gonzaga fans. Let's at least respect each other for that.

gozagswoohoo
01-25-2014, 09:47 AM
This is one of the better threads we've had in a week.

Go zags, beat BYU.

willandi
01-25-2014, 09:50 AM
This is one of the better threads we've had in a week.

Go zags, beat BYU.

But what do you know!?! (said jokingly)

Pargo the Destroyer
01-25-2014, 09:54 AM
This is one of the better threads we've had in a week.

Go zags, beat BYU.

Let's fight!!!!!!!!!!!!! Working on that special request you made last night by the way. It's looking do-able but the boss has to clear it first. Watch out Vegas if it happens.

Zagdawg
01-25-2014, 09:55 AM
The facts/stats that some of our posters take the time to research and share with the board are great--- they help to negate some of the "he only plays here because of his daddy stuff."

I also enjoy the inside information that many of our posters share about our scheduling and other info... it helps to negate some of the "Few only plays this schedule to pad his win/loss record".

I feel overall we have a good board with many very knowledgeable posters and I think we are all in agreement that the primary challenge that we need to work through is the message that we deliver on the board--- tearing down a member of our team does not sit well with a good number of the board members here---i.e. saying someone had a off shooting night is different than saying this player should not be playing div 1 ball.

Some posters like to focus on the positive--some like to go out of their way to focus on the negative........even in a positive situation some of our posters will find something negative to say about it--if we lose some negativity that is not a bad thing--it will go a long way in bringing the board back in the direction we saw a number of years ago.

I am like many of our fans who enjoy coming to the board to read informative posts about the team that are backed by facts....we talk about the reduction in the number of posts/posters recently----but I know a good number of previous readers/posters that do not visit the board as often because of the negative nature/direction it has gone--attacks on players and the coaching staff led by a few of our posters.

Nothing wrong with posting fact based comments--but the posts with the agenda or tearing down a specific player are the ones that usually elicit a response from our posters (which is what some posters are looking for....to draw people into an argument--because they like to argue).


We have a great team and great coaching staff--- we may have some hiccups by players/staff decisions once in a while --but no one is perfect and overall the team is great and I am happy to say that I appreciate what they bring to Spokane.

Go Zags

former1dog
01-25-2014, 10:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

jim77
01-25-2014, 10:28 AM
We are 17-3 (hopefully 18-3 after this evening) hardly under achieving. In fact, with all the injuries and sickness I'd say these young fellas have shown themselves well. Do we always win by 30? Nope....but neither did some of the other "better" Zag teams. (remember when past teams "PLAYED DOWN" to their opponents?)All teams have bad days and sometimes opposing teams do better due to matchups. I'll bet this years team has a pretty high points margin for their victories. This team reminds me of the 99 team and may very well shock a few people.

As far as lambasting a player on this forum...its the moderators job to determine what goes and what stays..and they do a pretty good job of it. Leave it up to them. Regardless of performance, I personally respect all the players/coaches for their hard work and dedication...and based on the last few decades hard work/dedication has been exactly what has been going on. The GU bulldogs are the only team Pro/college that I follow. Why? Cause I like the way they play the game and I like the classy players and coaches who participate. I really enjoy watching them play. When the season ends...I'm a bit down...not because they lost..but because I'll miss seeing them play for 7 months and I'll miss watching players who move on.

My elderly Mother and Father always watch the games and talk to me about the players...my Mom thinks DS is cute.....Pangos too...:)) She just loves the Zags. (special shout out to PHILLY ZAG) The folks really appreciate how to get the game out in ND. Thanks Philly.

LongIslandZagFan
01-25-2014, 10:38 AM
Jazz, Reborn, et al that want to be negative more than positive. Try this... it is an old coaching trick. When I need to criticize a player... I sandwich it. Perfect example from my son's soccer game last night... my son had a goal by positioning himself perfectly on a free kick. A few plays later he was in a great position for another goal but was behind his teammate who had the ball and was being defended. When I substituted him out I sandwiched it by saying "Great positioning on the goal...well done. On that last play when you were trailing behind Martin, you have to talk to him... let him know you are there so he can lay it off. Great work though... love what I am seeing." Criticism sandwiched between compliments.

Here is my issue with say the attacks on DS. Attacking him on height... borders on silly. From what I have seen over the last 4 years is when you can dish the ball like he can... it doesn't matter. When you attack based on his lineage... you are partially right. He does start because his last name is Stockton... but mostly because he passes like Dad, steals like Dad, and sees the court like Dad. It isn't the name, it is the skill that came with the name. Is DS destined to be pro...no. I'd call out anyone who said he was. But the constant berating of him and calls for turnover prone players to start in his place is silly too. Look... Coleman offers something that DS doesn't. He can go on a scoring tear. BUT... his weakness is that he plays outside the system. He is out of control at times and he flat out turns the ball over. Each player has their flaws... but if I want the system to run right I want DS as the anchor. It is no surprise that the offense is more efficient with him in it.

I could go through other players... but the point is can we at least try to take a more factual and bigger picture look at things instead of blathering on with negativity?

The more negative this board has become, the less traffic. That isn't a coincidence.

Hoopaholic
01-25-2014, 10:39 AM
Jazz, Reborn, et al that want to be negative more than positive. Try this... it is an old coaching trick. When I need to criticize a player... I sandwich it. Perfect example from my son's soccer game last night... my son had a goal by positioning himself perfectly on a free kick. A few plays later he was in a great position for another goal but was behind his teammate who had the ball and was being defended. When I substituted him out I sandwiched it by saying "Great positioning on the goal...well done. On that last play when you were trailing behind Martin, you have to talk to him... let him know you are there so he can lay it off. Great work though... love what I am seeing." Criticism sandwiched between compliments.

Here is my issue with say the attacks on DS. Attacking him on height... borders on silly. From what I have seen over the last 4 years is when you can dish the ball like he can... it doesn't matter. When you attack based on his lineage... you are partially right. He does start because his last name is Stockton... but mostly because he passes like Dad, steals like Dad, and sees the court like Dad. It isn't the name, it is the skill that came with the name. Is DS destined to be pro...no. I'd call out anyone who said he was. But the constant berating of him and calls for turnover prone players to start in his place is silly too. Look... Coleman offers something that DS doesn't. He can go on a scoring tear. BUT... his weakness is that he plays outside the system. He is out of control at times and he flat out turns the ball over. Each player has their flaws... but if I want the system to run right I want DS as the anchor. It is no surprise that the offense is more efficient with him in it.

I could go through other players... but the point is can we at least try to take a more factual and bigger picture look at things instead of blathering on with negativity?

The more negative this board has become, the less traffic. That isn't a coincidence.


Creating feedback with the positive-negative-positive snadwich does a true disservice to both categories that are equally important, valuable and unique in the role of shapinng exceptional performance. This style tends to reinforce the lack of true dialogue, tends to impact the ability to accept areas that need to improve and confuses individuals on where to draw their attention for self improvement.

Goal is to build resilency, self efficacy and ability to be goal oreinted and the "but" sandwich does none of that and actually is truly detrimental to achieving those objectives

the best way, to include discussion on this board, is to be open, honest but learn how to "frame" the issue with minimal impact on the psyche or it is automatically viewed as an attack
the old "but" sandwich trick has been shown time and time again to be far more detrimental than being truthful, honest with the issue

I agree the attacks that are not fudnamentally tied into the actions on the hardwood are and should be avoided or not allowed......but the action and play on the hardwood should be open to an honest, civil discussion and dialogue

LongIslandZagFan
01-25-2014, 11:26 AM
Creating feedback with the positive-negative-positive snadwich does a true disservice to both categories that are equally important, valuable and unique in the role of shapinng exceptional performance. This style tends to reinforce the lack of true dialogue, tends to impact the ability to accept areas that need to improve and confuses individuals on where to draw their attention for self improvement.

Goal is to build resilency, self efficacy and ability to be goal oreinted and the "but" sandwich does none of that and actually is truly detrimental to achieving those objectives

the best way, to include discussion on this board, is to be open, honest but learn how to "frame" the issue with minimal impact on the psyche or it is automatically viewed as an attack
the old "but" sandwich trick has been shown time and time again to be far more detrimental than being truthful, honest with the issue

I agree the attacks that are not fudnamentally tied into the actions on the hardwood are and should be avoided or not allowed......but the action and play on the hardwood should be open to an honest, civil discussion and dialogue

My suggestion was to at least tone down the negativeness. I DO see the stats and from what I have seen, as we have devolved down to negative attack after negative attack... hits on the board go down and down.

Yes. Have a discussion about what happens during the games. Yes. Discuss the positives and negatives of the players... but make an attempt to actually do both.

Calling DS a non-D1 starter... is an attack on the player. Saying he can be a liability in that he doesn't shoot much but he manages the team well is not. Saying Coleman is a turnover machine is an attack on the player. Saying he is turnover prone but brings other intangibles is not. Yes, lets have an open discussion about the players and the games... but lets not continually make it a bashing fest. If I were not an admin... I probably would have stopped reading this part of the forum to be honest. It is devolving down to a Donscentral style of negativity. Why do we have to have a weekly pity party when the team has 3 losses all season? We ##### and moan about 20 point wins? Who the heck wants to read that??? Obviously less and less people. I have said it before and will say it again... it will be a matter of time before the only people that post and read the board will be the negative folks talking to themselves.

I have one simple plea... BE A HALF FULL INSTEAD OF HALF EMPTY... IF ONLY HALF THE TIME!!!

ETA... Please... everyone... grow a thicker skin... stop acting like you are proverbial whipping boy... and those that don't like the negativity... come back with a positive post rather than direct attack on posters.

vandalzag
01-25-2014, 11:41 AM
The board should be about discussion and opinions. But when opinions are offered as facts and people criticize just for the sake of being critical it gets tiresome. It is very easy to identify the weakness or shortcomings of each and every player on this and previous teams. But when all you do is point out the negative your narrative becomes very shallow. Certain posters decide that they do not like players and spend the next 4 years running the players down. By doing this what does it offer to forum? Balance is not achieved by sitting on one side. Do not like a player, that is up to you. But to run the player down for his entire playing career just gets old. DS has become poster boy for this forum, people who like him, do so while understanding his shortcomings. People who do not like him ignore the positives he brings to the team and focus only on what they do not like. Nearly every thread is reactionary, DS has a bad game and he is torn apart and used as the prime example as to why Few can't win in March or that he has "lost his fire"(as are all players but Pangos who is exempt) and then if he has a good game he is proof that Few knows what he is doing. I wonder who will be the target next year.

The hyper critical people (reborn, vanzagger, jazz,etc...) would have no issue pointing out my "ignorance" if I were to say something link "DS is better than Dan Dickau because I like DS more than than Dan". And I would deserve to be ridiculed for such a statement. But when they are called out for doing the same thing in their "criticism" of players they get offended. Does not seem very logical or balanced for that matter. Jazz anointed himself the board contrarian to balance out all of the "Pollys" on this board and Reborn wants to criticize because it his right to criticize. In their eyes it is OK to hammer on players and coaches, but responding to things they say are off limits no matter how offensive, inflammatory, or inaccurate their post may be.

I agree that this board should not be an "echo chamber". But it also doe not have to be Fox News vs MSNBC, with posters taking sides and never straying from their talking points, regardless of the facts.

BobZag
01-25-2014, 11:41 AM
One thing that is forgotten all too often is it's just games. College basketball. That's one step up from high school basketball. Too many people get way too serious about it all. I once did. Now, if we win, great. If we lose, better luck next time. But with Few in charge, the end usually results in March Madness and we all have a good time.

Btw, got some tasty good recruits lined up overseas.

Hoopaholic
01-25-2014, 11:50 AM
The board should be about discussion and opinions. But when opinions are offered as facts and people criticize just for the sake of being critical it gets tiresome. It is very easy to identify the weakness or shortcomings of each and every player on this and previous teams. But when all you do is point out the negative your narrative becomes very shallow. Certain posters decide that they do not like players and spend the next 4 years running the players down. By doing this what does it offer to forum? Balance is not achieved by sitting on one side. Do not like a player, that is up to you. But to run the player down for his entire playing career just gets old. DS has become poster boy for this forum, people who like him, do so while understanding his shortcomings. People who do not like him ignore the positives he brings to the team and focus only on what they do not like. Nearly every thread is reactionary, DS has a bad game and he is torn apart and used as the prime example as to why Few can't win in March or that he has "lost his fire"(as are all players but Pangos who is exempt) and then if he has a good game he is proof that Few knows what he is doing. I wonder who will be the target next year.

The hyper critical people (reborn, vanzagger, jazz,etc...) would have no issue pointing out my "ignorance" if I were to say something link "DS is better than Dan Dickau because I like DS more than than Dan". And I would deserve to be ridiculed for such a statement. But when they are called out for doing the same thing in their "criticism" of players they get offended. Does not seem very logical or balanced for that matter. Jazz anointed himself the board contrarian to balance out all of the "Pollys" on this board and Reborn wants to criticize because it his right to criticize. In their eyes it is OK to hammer on players and coaches, but responding to things they say are off limits no matter how offensive, inflammatory, or inaccurate their post may be.


I agree that this board should not be an "echo chamber". But it also doe not have to be Fox News vs MSNBC, with posters taking sides and never straying from their talking points, regardless of the facts.

seems to run in spurts...Meech was the last one to take this type of non stop criticism for three years........does make you wonder who will be the annointed one next year...uggggg

Zagceo
01-25-2014, 11:51 AM
Creating feedback with the positive-negative-positive snadwich does a true disservice to both categories that are equally important, valuable and unique in the role of shapinng exceptional performance. This style tends to reinforce the lack of true dialogue, tends to impact the ability to accept areas that need to improve and confuses individuals on where to draw their attention for self improvement.

Goal is to build resilency, self efficacy and ability to be goal oreinted and the "but" sandwich does none of that and actually is truly detrimental to achieving those objectives

the best way, to include discussion on this board, is to be open, honest but learn how to "frame" the issue with minimal impact on the psyche or it is automatically viewed as an attack
the old "but" sandwich trick has been shown time and time again to be far more detrimental than being truthful, honest with the issue

I agree the attacks that are not fudnamentally tied into the actions on the hardwood are and should be avoided or not allowed......but the action and play on the hardwood should be open to an honest, civil discussion and dialogue

I'm a newbe on this board. Imo there seems to be a history with certain members that exists that will never be over looked or accepted.

I believe in my short time here that Hoop gives the best information without bias, digs or personal attacks. Hoop seems to get along with all because he either ignores silly comments or counters with facts or stats to set people straight.

If everybody operated with this mentality then the board might just clean itself up on its own because the personal attacks could just fall on deaf ears. If you have a problem with an individual put them on ignore. Walk away if you can't stop yourself from another useless argument.

I belong to another board which requires real names. It has no filter for words and the discussions get heated all the time but at the end of the day people always rally back together because everybody loves the technology.

The difference imo is that people on this board take it so personally because people are involved not technology.

Its like to 2 different fathers and how they discipline their kids. The loving father that only encourages and gives positive feedback or the critical father that is strict and expects results. No right or wrong just different.

We should all adjust our copping skills so we can all get along.

To those that post thank you I enjoy all posts.

Hoopaholic
01-25-2014, 12:02 PM
An old post when discussing who was going to start couple years ago......just seems to come around new day, same old story.........but I do LOVE this board for discussion, opinion and review
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BroncoZAG615



Zag for Life


Join Date: Feb 2007Location: DenverPosts: 1,601











Originally Posted by cjm720

It's unimagineable that some of you think Carter won't start.

With Meech gone, some around here simply need a new whipping boy. For whatever reason (I've got a couple ideas why), that person is slowly becoming Carter, who bailed us out last year and took the team to a WCC title. The back half of his season was one of the more remarkable in-season turnarounds I have ever witnessed. Now some want to run him out because he hurt his wrist. Truly, I never cease to be amazed here.

Hoopaholic
01-25-2014, 12:03 PM
is it game time yet? No real good games until this afternoon and I am bored at work...........

23dpg
01-25-2014, 12:37 PM
One thing that is forgotten all too often is it's just games. College basketball. That's one step up from high school basketball. Too many people get way too serious about it all. I once did. Now, if we win, great. If we lose, better luck next time. But with Few in charge, the end usually results in March Madness and we all have a good time.

Btw, got some tasty good recruits lined up overseas.

More please!

ZagNative
01-25-2014, 01:24 PM
Couple of points:

1) I feel like most of the people who have real insight into the program are still here

2) If fewer people are posting, I'd bet it's because the team isn't as good this year. I obviously don't have access to site traffic stats, but it seems like this is normal. Lots of traffic last year, or in Morrison's year, when the team is great; fewer posters when the team is less great. That's totally understandable and surely must be true of fans of any team or sport.

3) What's with the age-ism? Both recent threads on this subject have included a gratuitous shot at older posters. I don't get it. For full disclosure, I'm ~40.

Maybe I'm tone deaf, but I personally haven't noted a change in tone. Whatever. This will be the last time I post in one of these navel gazing "whatever happened to the old days" threads. Let's get back to talking about basketball.Great post! I agree 100%.

I haven't posted as much lately as I used to, but it has nothing to do with the tone of the board. It's just that the media coverage of the Zags is down this year, so there's less to talk about.. Maybe that's because we didn't have our usual high profile OOC schedule, maybe it's because the team just isn't as interesting, due to injuries. Whatever.

DixieZag
01-25-2014, 01:37 PM
Many of the best and worst characteristics of this board are shared by just about every other fan board around the country - try visiting some SEC football board some time. That doesn't mean we should tolerate the negative stuff that we (myself included) tend toward when times are tough. In fact, I think one of the few things that sets this board apart from 99% of them is there is a palpable sense that we can do better - - not particularly surprising given the university that is the subject here.

sonuvazag
01-25-2014, 02:06 PM
Here is an example: Robin Williams is a fine actor. He has made excellent films and is fabulous in World's Greatest Dad, Insomnia, One Hour Photo.

It is not an attack on Robin Williams to say he is terrible in Popeye. Just awful. Its a bad film that fails on almost every level, but his performance is particularly bad.
You can't be serious. Popeye was so exceptionally good, I don't even have time to explain all the reasons, but I'll just concede that Robert Altman isn't for everyone and leave you to your opinion.

I'm carrying your analogy further. What you and I have both stated about Popeye are personal evaluations. There should be no reason for either of us to take a discussion of our difference of opinion to a personal level, but it happens all the time and often by accident. You might be offended by original statement "You can't be serious," even though my intent was to express genuine surprise that anyone could see that movie so differently from me.

Popeye had a budget of 20 million and grossed 50 million -- a fact about the effectiveness of the movie to achieve its monetary goal. Popeye has a 5.1 rating at IMDB -- a fact using an aggregate of personal evaluations.

Sometimes, we could delve into a further discussion about nepotism in Hollywood or the hidden agendas in moviemaking, but our personal evaluations of such topics are only bits of chatter that add to a bigger picture.

Zagceo
01-25-2014, 02:20 PM
You can't be serious. Popeye was so exceptionally good, I don't even have time to explain all the reasons, but I'll just concede that Robert Altman isn't for everyone and leave you to your opinion.

I'm carrying your analogy further. What you and I have both stated about Popeye are personal evaluations. There should be no reason for either of us to take a discussion of our difference of opinion to a personal level, but it happens all the time and often by accident. You might be offended by original statement "You can't be serious," even though my intent was to express genuine surprise that anyone could see that movie so differently from me.

Popeye had a budget of 20 million and grossed 50 million -- a fact about the effectiveness of the movie to achieve its monetary goal. Popeye has a 5.1 rating at IMDB -- a fact using an aggregate of personal evaluations.

Sometimes, we could delve into a further discussion about nepotism in Hollywood or the hidden agendas in moviemaking, but our personal evaluations of such topics are only bits of chatter that add to a bigger picture.

I see the difference is Robin Williams does not attend GU. Not in the circle of trust ; )

maineblackbear
01-25-2014, 02:23 PM
I love Robert Altman. Nashville, The Player, Short Cuts-- McCabe and Mrs Miller one of my all-time favorites. Prairie Home Companion gets overlooked but is wonderful. But Kansas City is awful and we are going to have to agree to disagree on Popeye.

I agree with the rest of your post 100%. And, we could get into a real slug fest about the kind of movies that make money and whether that reflects quality. IMDB made up of film buffs, I believe their (and metacritic's) aggregate. And, it reflects my personal opinion, which makes them right.

It is interesting I guess. After reading this series of posts, we clearly have two different constituencies. Some read for the info (like, Bobzag's cryptic hints) and some for the discussion. ("is you is, or is you ain't, my constituents? Nooooooo") I mostly ONLY care about the info and shake my head about the way the conversation devolves to personal attacks. So, I think the result is that there has been less info. And Zagnative might be right-- it does seem like a less interesting season. My wife and I commented about how much more thrilling the Portland-BYU game was for us than watching the Zags play. Weird.

This board is like a sandbox. You can do with it what you want, as long as you can at least parallel play. But, some posters take things personally (or worse, act as if they are members of the team) and try to regulate others. And then sand gets kicked around a little.

But I never think the "personal attacks" are comments about certain players. I think its fair to have opinions.

Here is an example. A number of years ago, I had a personal friend who told me so many personal unprintable stories about Zag players. I was made well aware of the split on the Adam-JP team between a couple of groups of players and why. To mention those items would have constituted a personal attack (as well as a breach of confidence, and loss of a lifelong friend). But to say, (about Basketball) as many of us did, "Man, Morrison just does not work hard on defense and he is more than a bit of a liability on the defense" was not a personal attack. It was the result of personal evaluations. And is only a bit of the chatter that added to a bigger picture. The bigger picture in this case being that despite his flaws, Adam was one of the greatest scorers in the last ten years of college basketball.
I agree with sonuvazag. But I am not the constituent for that.

I have been frozen for thirty years. Give me the info.

Zags11
01-25-2014, 02:49 PM
Great replies. Awesome.

TheZagPhish
01-25-2014, 03:20 PM
I'd have a beer with every single one of you.

Blackbeard
01-25-2014, 03:22 PM
Read the first two posts and you guys are negative. Maybe the winter weather is getting the best of ya? or maybe because the zags are out of the top 25? Don't get too down when we get crushed by Memphis. Cheers big ears, it will be alright.

ZagaZags
01-25-2014, 03:29 PM
One thing that is forgotten all too often is it's just games. College basketball. That's one step up from high school basketball. Too many people get way too serious about it all. I once did. Now, if we win, great. If we lose, better luck next time. But with Few in charge, the end usually results in March Madness and we all have a good time.

Btw, got some tasty good recruits lined up overseas.

Did Sabonis finally make up his mind? Hope so, he was the ace up the sleeve.

quasar1
01-25-2014, 04:41 PM
My favorite poster by far is Jazzdelmar. I don't see him as negative, I see him as a realist. That's what this board needs, in my opinion. Truth bombs.

wnczagfan
01-25-2014, 04:49 PM
Very well said Zags11....very well said...

And maineblackbear- I am offended that I wasn't listed as one of the ones who posts with value! Those ms paint drawings take HOURS! ;-)

I like your posts, Woohoo. In fact I have been waiting for your BYU dream....


Edit: Oops! I just found it. Thanks!

kclubfounder
01-25-2014, 05:04 PM
Read the first two posts and you guys are negative. Maybe the winter weather is getting the best of ya? or maybe because the zags are out of the top 25? Don't get too down when we get crushed by Memphis. Cheers big ears, it will be alright.

I'm not sure exactly what to think of this comment that is coming from a new, but forceful, Stockton basher. I'm thinking ironic is a good description.

Zag4Hire
01-25-2014, 05:11 PM
Wow what did I miss? I saw the title and I thought it was more along the lines of "Gonzaga basketball is very important to everyone here but not the most important thing. Cherish your health, family, friends, etc.". Then you scroll down at what probably took about 30-45 minutes out of someone's life to really post a bunch of nothing.

This is a high quality board because the group offers just about a little bit of everything. So on with the questioning every Few move but saying Gonzaga would be nowhere near where they are without him comments, Stocks bashing, beverage threads, WooHoo's Art Gallery, Jazz's "Glass is F'ing Empty" perspective, etc. It wouldn't be the GU Boards without it.

ZagMan in Philly
01-25-2014, 05:13 PM
My favorite poster by far is Jazzdelmar. I don't see him as negative, I see him as a realist. That's what this board needs, in my opinion. Truth bombs.

I always read and enjoyed jazz's posts. Where are you jazz? How many points will Haws put up tonight??

ZagLawGrad
01-25-2014, 05:22 PM
I always read and enjoyed jazz's posts. Where are you jazz? How many points will Haws put up tonight??

Hope he comes back on here. He says what's on his mind. I like that in a person. And he has pretty good insight about the sport.

But, unfortunately, some of the weaklings on here who can't stand anyone who says what they perceive to be negative, or different than their view, all too often have to go beyond stating their disagreement to turn it into a personal attack. Ridiculous to do so.

Let the thoughts and opinions flow freely.

BTB
01-25-2014, 05:34 PM
Hope he comes back on here. He says what's on his mind. I like that in a person. And he has pretty good insight about the sport.

But, unfortunately, some of the weaklings on here who can't stand anyone who says what they perceive to be negative, or different than their view, all too often have to go beyond stating their disagreement to turn it into a personal attack. Ridiculous to do so.

Let the thoughts and opinions flow freely.

And calling people weaklings isn't a personal attack?

I think everyone can agree that their is a difference between constructive criticism and attacking a player. Criticizing is fine. I think the reason people get so upset is because of the posters who have been saying the same things all year (too short, can't shoot, defensive liability) and literally saying that David is the reason we won't make it deep in the tournament this year. When people say that over and over again (the latter part, not the factual part about his weaknesses) on every single thread it is an attack and its understandable people get sick of it. Of course, that doesn't mean that we should then turn and attack the attacker. The whole scenario is very tiring!

Birddog
01-25-2014, 05:38 PM
I'd have a beer with every single one of you.
You ought to seek out some outside help, you're obviously a drunk.

23dpg
01-25-2014, 05:42 PM
Hope he comes back on here. He says what's on his mind. I like that in a person. And he has pretty good insight about the sport.

But, unfortunately, some of the weaklings on here who can't stand anyone who says what they perceive to be negative, or different than their view, all too often have to go beyond stating their disagreement to turn it into a personal attack. Ridiculous to do so.

Let the thoughts and opinions flow freely.

Ironic Post of the Week!

FTR, I like Jazz quite a bit. He's a glass half empty kind of a guy and I'm half full. Combined, that's a hell of a drink.

Zagceo
01-25-2014, 05:43 PM
And calling people weaklings isn't a personal attack?

I think everyone can agree that their is a difference between constructive criticism and attacking a player. Criticizing is fine. I think the reason people get so upset is because of the posters who have been saying the same things all year (too short, can't shoot, defensive liability) and literally saying that David is the reason we won't make it deep in the tournament this year. When people say that over and over again (the latter part, not the factual part about his weaknesses) on every single thread it is an attack and its understandable people get sick of it. Of course, that doesn't mean that we should then turn and attack the attacker. The whole scenario is very tiring!

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac342/ceo_500/ignore_zps44938813.png

ZagLawGrad
01-25-2014, 05:45 PM
And calling people weaklings isn't a personal attack?

I think everyone can agree that their is a difference between constructive criticism and attacking a player. Criticizing is fine. I think the reason people get so upset is because of the posters who have been saying the same things all year (too short, can't shoot, defensive liability) and literally saying that David is the reason we won't make it deep in the tournament this year. When people say that over and over again (the latter part, not the factual part about his weaknesses) on every single thread it is an attack and its understandable people get sick of it. Of course, that doesn't mean that we should then turn and attack the attacker. The whole scenario is very tiring!

I don't recall naming one name, do you? No personal attack there.

ZagLawGrad
01-25-2014, 05:49 PM
I'd have a beer with every single one of you.

:cheers:

kclubfounder
01-25-2014, 05:53 PM
I'd have a beer with every single one of you.

And I'm quite confident that if any of us ever randomly met in a bar anywhere on this planet that is exactly what would happen.

GO ZAGS!!!!!!

ZagLawGrad
01-25-2014, 05:57 PM
And I'm quite confident that if any of us ever randomly met in a bar anywhere on this planet that is exactly what would happen.

GO ZAGS!!!!!!

:cheers: And I'll add that anyone named the kclubfounder would have to be a good guy to have a beer with. :cheers:

DixieZag
01-25-2014, 05:58 PM
I'd have a beer with every single one of you.

Do the guys that actually have sat down for a drink with you get extra credit?

john montana
01-25-2014, 06:21 PM
ETA... Please... everyone... grow a thicker skin... stop acting like you are proverbial whipping boy..

This.

Just because I might think player A is a more effective option than player B or the team is better off with starter C playing less minutes than bench guy D does not mean I am attacking anyone's character.

ZagLawGrad
01-25-2014, 06:23 PM
This.

Just because I might think player A is a more effective option than player B or the team is better off with starter C playing less minutes than bench guy D does not mean I am attacking anyone's character.

+1

bballbeachbum
01-25-2014, 06:33 PM
:cheers:

:cheers: BEAT BYU!!!

gonwick
01-25-2014, 06:47 PM
This.

Just because I might think player A is a more effective option than player B or the team is better off with starter C playing less minutes than bench guy D does not mean I am attacking anyone's character.

Agreed. This has been a challenging season to watch. In other seasons, the starting lineup has been clear. This season, not so much. There is redundancy in a lot of posted opinions because nothing changes, even though it could, or perhaps should. Regardless of people's take on the matter, though, this is a matter of degrees. Ten minutes from player a (or player b, I'm looking at you player b) allocated to players c, d, etc. No one is saying anyone should be benched or doesn't deserve any time on the floor. As bobzag said, it's a game played by college kids, by a team that is frankly not that great. We all want them to reach their potential this year, it would be nice if, despite disagreements about how best to accomplish that, posters could chill out a bit. The wcc tourney will be here soon enough, and gu's season will most likely end shortly after that. Let's enjoy what little basketball remains before the long summer drought.

RenoZag
01-25-2014, 06:59 PM
You ought to seek out some outside help, you're obviously a drunk.

LMAO.

BTB
01-25-2014, 07:05 PM
I don't recall naming one name, do you? No personal attack there.

That is a lawyer answer if I've ever heard one! :jk:

Lets god Zags whoop BYU!!!

Oregonzagnut
01-25-2014, 07:19 PM
Few plays the team the same way in the post-season as he does during the regular season. this is part of the reason I think Gonzaga stagnates in the Dance. The tournament is a whole different game than regular season games. Few needs to grow, learn and I don't mind saying that "IMO, Few needs to loosen the reigns and let the players find the zone that micromanaging, by any coach, will stifle.

If the kids haven't learned to play Fews way after 33 games, then he should manage the substitutions and general plays and match-ups but let the kids look to the huddle rather than always looking to the bench.

Since this opinion of mine is so attacked, I figure now is the best time to speak it when it is taboo to criticize.

:)

BTB
01-25-2014, 08:20 PM
Few plays the team the same way in the post-season as he does during the regular season. this is part of the reason I think Gonzaga stagnates in the Dance. The tournament is a whole different game than regular season games. Few needs to grow, learn and I don't mind saying that "IMO, Few needs to loosen the reigns and let the players find the zone that micromanaging, by any coach, will stifle.

If the kids haven't learned to play Fews way after 33 games, then he should manage the substitutions and general plays and match-ups but let the kids look to the huddle rather than always looking to the bench.

Since this opinion of mine is so attacked, I figure now is the best time to speak it when it is taboo to criticize.

:)

Hahaha. Good call!

I think most people here would agree here that Few would be better off letting the players play sometimes. I also think people agree that March Madness is different than the regular season, but I disagree that he should coach any different in a game in March Madness than regular season. Why is any individual game in the tourney different in March than any other time of year?

Anyways, we may be off topic haha

Oregonzagnut
01-25-2014, 08:46 PM
Why is any individual game in the tourney different in March than any other time of year?

Anyways, we may be off topic haha

I think it is because the intensity, 33 games of preparation for each team and the best 64 teams in the nation make it different. IMO. The atmosphere is different, the media, the pressure and the fact it is 1 and done. We may have 1-2 games that are like tournament games (Butler, St Marys, etc) but the tournament is the place where both coaches and players have to bring their best. More than their best.

Is the Super Bowl played like any other regular season game? World series? Olympics?

I am just saying that if Few is going to let them play like he doesn't in the regular season, doing so in the tournament might be the best place to do so. Maybe not though. I just think if the kids haven't learned Fews game by then, Few shouldn't worry so much.

This thread needs some brief derailment.

kclubfounder
01-25-2014, 08:49 PM
Is the Super Bowl played like any other regular season game? World series? Olympics?

For the vast majority of championship teams the answer is yes. One doesn't have to read, watch, or listen too much to those who have been champions to know the answer.

BTB
01-25-2014, 08:57 PM
I think it is because the intensity, 33 games of preparation for each team and the best 64 teams in the nation make it different. IMO. The atmosphere is different, the media, the pressure and the fact it is 1 and done. We may have 1-2 games that are like tournament games (Butler, St Marys, etc) but the tournament is the place where both coaches and players have to bring their best. More than their best.

Is the Super Bowl played like any other regular season game? World series? Olympics?

I am just saying that if Few is going to let them play like he doesn't in the regular season, doing so in the tournament might be the best place to do so. Maybe not though. I just think if the kids haven't learned Fews game by then, Few shouldn't worry so much.

This thread needs some brief derailment.

Good points

gozagswoohoo
01-25-2014, 09:15 PM
You ought to seek out some outside help, you're obviously a drunk.

Hahahahahaha

Zags11
01-25-2014, 09:44 PM
I take credit for this win as I showed zag faithful how to hold hands and beats cougs. :)

Bowser
01-25-2014, 09:49 PM
Now, how about a group hug? I've got orange slices! And grapefruits injected with vodka!! Yum.

Zags11
01-25-2014, 09:50 PM
I love oranges. Ew on grapefruits.

Bowser
01-25-2014, 09:52 PM
An awkward silence about the group hug.

Zagnailler
01-25-2014, 09:59 PM
Hugs okay, but no grapefruit because of statins.

Bowser
01-25-2014, 10:02 PM
Birddog was right. You guys are all on drugs.

Mantua
01-25-2014, 10:04 PM
Is Francis one of the "old goats"?

Bowser
01-25-2014, 10:06 PM
BTW another question. What pronunciation are we using? Is it "blest" or "bles-sid"? Just asking.

GrizZAG
01-25-2014, 10:07 PM
Hahaha. Good call!

I think most people here would agree here that Few would be better off letting the players play sometimes. I also think people agree that March Madness is different than the regular season, but I disagree that he should coach any different in a game in March Madness than regular season. Why is any individual game in the tourney different in March than any other time of year?

Anyways, we may be off topic haha

Tonight looked a lot like a March Madness Game...ya think? Incredible intensity throughout and our men prevailed. Lots of games ahead like this one I think. They will be battle hardened!

Bowser
01-25-2014, 10:12 PM
You can call me a lot of things, but don't call me "Francis."

Zags11
01-25-2014, 10:36 PM
Bless sid. Dupe

TheZagPhish
01-25-2014, 10:46 PM
An awkward silence about the group hug.

I want a group hug.

caduceus
01-25-2014, 11:02 PM
Well, I can't stand any of you....



































http://i.imgur.com/BKCMATM.gif

Zags11
01-25-2014, 11:04 PM
Lol

2wiceright
01-25-2014, 11:39 PM
How do you disagree, but in the very next sentence say 'if people disagree with you, they can respectfully disagree'? That's exactly the point (or what I personally take away from it) of the OP. People AREN'T respectfully disagreeing. The tone around here the last few months is so harsh and some much less friendly than it used to be, and that seems to me to be the problem.

Just me though.

Totally agree Woohoo..+1

ZagaZags
01-25-2014, 11:41 PM
How do you disagree, but in the very next sentence say 'if people disagree with you, they can respectfully disagree'? That's exactly the point (or what I personally take away from it) of the OP. People AREN'T respectfully disagreeing. The tone around here the last few months is so harsh and some much less friendly than it used to be, and that seems to me to be the problem.

Just me though.

I respectfully disagree. ;)

ZagaZags
01-25-2014, 11:44 PM
If someone says David Stockton is short, you can respectfully disagree. Mugsy Bogues told me David Stockton was tall. David did a great job tonight.

Zag79
01-26-2014, 03:29 AM
Not sure if I've ever read such a long therapy session on a sports message board before lol... that being said I was on one of the original boards when there was maybe 20 of us. Best board ever, mostly inside info and a few friends of people in the know.

The reason the board is so negative now is simple, success breeds bandwagon fans. Their the first to turn negative and freak out, jumping ship or beating dead horses. This team is as good as any before it, it wins differently but still just as good.

18-3 sounds damn fine to me. I'm enjoying this season like I always do, and feel lucky as ever to be a season ticket holder. Have a feeling we might make a run this March, either way I thoroughly enjoy watching this group of guys get after it.

Zags11
01-26-2014, 03:34 AM
Therapy in motion. Lol

Bowser
01-26-2014, 09:20 AM
Okay. Strike that. I prefer "Francis" to "Dupe". And no, I think it's "blest." At least in the context used.

Bowser
01-26-2014, 09:26 AM
Phish Mon, rain check the group hug. Four fingers of Balvene and a stogie is the preferred alternative for distinguished gentlemen.

Zagsker
01-26-2014, 10:39 AM
Very sensitive and emotional place

Hoopaholic
01-26-2014, 10:58 AM
Phish Mon, rain check the group hug. Four fingers of Balvene and a stogie is the preferred alternative for distinguished gentlemen.

Oh yea

Zag79
01-26-2014, 02:28 PM
Very sensitive and emotional place

This. It's easy to see who tends to be dramatic based on the excitement and "issues" they can create and become involved in on something as silly as a college basketball message board lol. Disagreements and differing opinions will always happen, but how you handle it and let it affect you is what matters. Again, it's only hoops and opinions people.

Zags11
01-26-2014, 02:36 PM
This. It's easy to see who tends to be dramatic based on the excitement and "issues" they can create and become involved in on something as silly as a college basketball message board lol. Disagreements and differing opinions will always happen, but how you handle it and let it affect you is what matters. Again, it's only hoops and opinions people.

I disagree. Ur a hater of this group session. You sir are not a zag fan.....lol. I kid, I kid.

Oregonzagnut
01-26-2014, 06:39 PM
For the vast majority of championship teams the answer is yes. One doesn't have to read, watch, or listen too much to those who have been champions to know the answer.

You may be talking only about the X's and O's.

Is the OOC schedule played the same as the conference schedule? I have heard many say the game is different when the WCC play starts. I have also heard many say the tournament is a whole different game as well. And not just in the X's and O's sense. Ask BYU or Pacific if WCC play is different. So why would anyone thing the best 64 teams are just like any other grouping?

I think early on in the season teams experiment, get better and change how they play based on the new players, new plays and new reff'ing trends. And new opponents. By the time they are done "practicing" for the conference tournament and march madness, they commit to a certain style, rotation and play calling. The staff also have to commit to certain things and there is no going back. The tournament games have a higher level of physical intensity and sense of urgency. Few needs to prepare our guys differently in subtle ways to achieve this higher level of intensity or defense.

I would agree, in theory it's "played the same". They try to eliminate emotion and they start out that way, but in reality, there is no way. And that emotion is what makes epic runs and miracle finishes. Why deny it and try to stifle it? There is more pressure on the players and staff, and there is a greater level of competition as well. And for those teams who play unlike any game they ever played that season, they will move on. Play the same as you did all year and you will lose early, unless you already are the best team in the nation. Makes sense to me. you have to dig deep to go deep in the tournament and IMO, Few is seeing that status quo is not the way to advance. He has got to pull something out of his hat.

My whole point is that maybe Few plays the SAME game as he does all season. Witchita St played unlike they did all season. They won, we didn't.

Just my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong and the tournament is just like any other game, on any other day, against your average opponents.

vandalzag
01-27-2014, 08:58 AM
You may be talking only about the X's and O's.

Is the OOC schedule played the same as the conference schedule? I have heard many say the game is different when the WCC play starts. I have also heard many say the tournament is a whole different game as well. And not just in the X's and O's sense. Ask BYU or Pacific if WCC play is different. So why would anyone thing the best 64 teams are just like any other grouping?

I think early on in the season teams experiment, get better and change how they play based on the new players, new plays and new reff'ing trends. And new opponents. By the time they are done "practicing" for the conference tournament and march madness, they commit to a certain style, rotation and play calling. The staff also have to commit to certain things and there is no going back. The tournament games have a higher level of physical intensity and sense of urgency. Few needs to prepare our guys differently in subtle ways to achieve this higher level of intensity or defense.

I would agree, in theory it's "played the same". They try to eliminate emotion and they start out that way, but in reality, there is no way. And that emotion is what makes epic runs and miracle finishes. Why deny it and try to stifle it? There is more pressure on the players and staff, and there is a greater level of competition as well. And for those teams who play unlike any game they ever played that season, they will move on. Play the same as you did all year and you will lose early, unless you already are the best team in the nation. Makes sense to me. you have to dig deep to go deep in the tournament and IMO, Few is seeing that status quo is not the way to advance. He has got to pull something out of his hat.

My whole point is that maybe Few plays the SAME game as he does all season. Witchita St played unlike they did all season. They won, we didn't.

Just my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong and the tournament is just like any other game, on any other day, against your average opponents.

It is not about changing what you do but being able to adjust to different playing styles, match ups, strengths/weaknesses, etc... Winning is about executing your game plan and taking the other team out of their plan. Wichita State did not do anything different against the Zags, other than a couple of guys started hitting shots. They did not unveil some new approach to the game, their focus was still rebounding and defense, they just started putting the ball in the hoop. Read any book on coaching and you will find one basic theme and that is you win by being consistent and executing. The timing of the tournament dictates that you can't change what you do, since you do not have time to get your players to do it.

Zagceo
01-27-2014, 09:47 AM
It is not about changing what you do but being able to adjust to different playing styles, match ups, strengths/weaknesses, etc...

One mans change is another mans adjustment. ; )

Hoopaholic
01-27-2014, 09:54 AM
It is not about changing what you do but being able to adjust to different playing styles, match ups, strengths/weaknesses, etc... Winning is about executing your game plan and taking the other team out of their plan. Wichita State did not do anything different against the Zags, other than a couple of guys started hitting shots. They did not unveil some new approach to the game, their focus was still rebounding and defense, they just started putting the ball in the hoop. Read any book on coaching and you will find one basic theme and that is you win by being consistent and executing. The timing of the tournament dictates that you can't change what you do, since you do not have time to get your players to do it.


MATH FORUMLA FOR WINNING

winning= Maximize Your Strenngths YS) MINUS (minimize) your weakness (YW) while at the same time EXPLOITING the weakness (EW) of your opponent while Minimizing your opponents Strengths(OS)

Winning = (YS-YW)+ (EW-OS)