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View Full Version : Kevin Pangos MUST get going



kclubfounder
01-23-2014, 05:11 PM
If we need him to sit for a month because the turf toe is dramatically slowing him then have him sit a month.

If there are some off-the-court issues that are distracting him (and I don't think that is an issue, but it has been with some Zags in the past) then those issues need to be resolved.

If he isn't getting enough sleep then he needs to start getting more sleep.

If he is simply in a slump because he is an athlete and all athletes go through a slump then the slump needs to come to an end.

I LOVE Kevin Pangos. If there is one player on the current Zag roster that I thought I would NEVER be concerned about performing while on the court, it is Kevin Pangos.

But for me, he has been the most disappointing player to date on the squad. He still comes through in the clutch big time on occasion. I still love his demeanor and I have a sense of calm when he is controlling the ball. But, because of the huge expectations I have for him, I am very dissatisfied with his performance so far this year.

I think it's his foot. I want him to sit for a while if that is the reason.

Or if that isn't the reason, I desperately want whatever the problem is to be resolved in the next 30 days.

GO ZAGS!!!!!!

zagfan1
01-23-2014, 08:14 PM
I vote to sit him. He is not his normal self. Bell is back so he needs to get well before we just get used to this mediocrity.

hooter73
01-23-2014, 09:01 PM
I voted to sit him when it happened. Few didnt listen to me though.

Seriously he never should have been playing this whole time imo

Zags11
01-23-2014, 09:16 PM
Who we gonna have play for him? We barely win with him in, hittin circus shots.

Birddog
01-23-2014, 09:47 PM
He played 39 mins tonight, too much IMO. Coleman catching the flu doesn't help matters.

DixieZag
01-23-2014, 09:52 PM
I voted to sit him when it happened. Few didnt listen to me though.

Seriously he never should have been playing this whole time imo

Well, not to get into it all over again but I did also (there were lots of us) and no, I'm not a trainer or physician - - but all that reading material said the risk of continued re-aggravation was huge. He had a real tough time getting open tonight, when he did, he knocked them down.

If Gary gets up to speed (it was nice to see him knock down a 3 and drive a couple of times), that will help take some pressure off of Pangos.

USD played very good Defense.

Ezag
01-23-2014, 09:59 PM
I wish people would get an F'in flu shot

vandalzag
01-23-2014, 10:06 PM
He played 39 mins tonight, too much IMO. Coleman catching the flu doesn't help matters.

I agree a lot of empty minutes for Pangos the last few games.

gamagin
01-23-2014, 10:16 PM
+1


I agree a lot of empty minutes for Pangos the last few games.

IN addition to the above, Donnie was on the post game show and sounded a little disappointed that GBj didn't shoot more. He said something to the effect that even though he is coming off the bad hand, he had openenings that he (DD) wished he had taken. I saw it too, fwiw. I thought a lot of shooters needed to take shots when the opportunity presented itself. And it was clear USD was preventing every attempt to drive to the basket and essentially daring us to shoot.

I think that was the lowest number of f.t. shots we've ever taken in a game. Gives some idea how well USD kept us from driving and especially from even attempting to get an and-one in the process.

That, plus Pangos' troubles, really does reduce the possibilities -- especially when neither is looking to shoot. In defense of KP, he was covered like a blanket tonight. I believe it will be the norm as long as he is slow a portion of a step.

By contrast, USD's top shooter is healthy, and had to be guarded by at least three of our guys at different times, with limited success. I saw this as the contrast between a healthy KP and the current KP. A healthy KP would have handled things on both ends of the court. We've all seen it before enough times to know what he's capable of doing.

CDC84
01-23-2014, 11:26 PM
The ONLY thing that is going to cure Pangos is to shut him down until the WCC tournament, and the Zags cannot afford to do it so long as they remain in contention for an at large bid. I have been saying this the entire year. Turf toe is an injury that cannot be healed until you stay away from all situations where you can aggravate it for weeks and weeks and weeks. Every single time he steps on the floor he aggravates it. Some games more than others.

He's going to be like this the entire year.

He's playing at 60% at best, and will do so until the season ends. If you don't believe me, review the Arkansas game tape and other games from earlier in the year. He was getting to the basket on a regular basis against athletic defenses and moving without the ball as well as any player since Morrison. And he was also defending better.

In many ways his injury is ruining Gonzaga's season, but the Zags are getting away with it because of the soft schedule and the amount of home games.

Mantua
01-23-2014, 11:39 PM
I voted to sit him when it happened. Few didnt listen to me though.

Seriously he never should have been playing this whole time imo

I agree. I don't see any easy solution. Bell has been out too long and still has a bandage. There is no way he can take over the point. Kevin is not going to get better during the season unless he's out for a few weeks. Nunez and Coleman aren't fully up to speed. The Zags have huge limitations this year. The flu didn't help. Can't they have a team trip to get flu shots?

vandalzag
01-23-2014, 11:40 PM
The ONLY thing that is going to cure Pangos is to shut him down until the WCC tournament, and the Zags cannot afford to do it so long as they remain in contention for an at large bid. I have been saying this the entire year. Turf toe is an injury that cannot be healed until you stay away from all situations where you can aggravate it for weeks and weeks and weeks. Every single time he steps on the floor he aggravates it. Some games more than others.

He's going to be like this the entire year.


He's playing at 60% at best, and will do so until the season ends. If you don't believe me, review the Arkansas game tape and other games from earlier in the year. He was getting to the basket on a regular basis against athletic defenses and moving without the ball as well as any player since Morrison. And he was also defending better.

It many ways his injury is ruining Gonzaga's season, but the Zags are getting away with it because of the soft schedule and the amount of home games.

I agree but playing 39 minutes is not going to help either. I would be worried if he was healthy and playing these minutes. Playing with that injury takes extra energy . At this rate he will not have any legs left come March. The team needs to step up around him and take off some the scoring load. If he can't penetrate, then put him on the wing and let KD or DS get the ball to him as a spot up shooter. On defense play zone, even mix in a 3/4 trap to shake things up a bit (watching 06 ucla vs gu game forgot how effective GU used be when the pressed)

DixieZag
01-23-2014, 11:44 PM
The ONLY thing that is going to cure Pangos is to shut him down until the WCC tournament, and the Zags cannot afford to do it so long as they remain in contention for an at large bid. I have been saying this the entire year. Turf toe is an injury that cannot be healed until you stay away from all situations where you can aggravate it for weeks and weeks and weeks. Every single time he steps on the floor he aggravates it. Some games more than others.

He's going to be like this the entire year.

He's playing at 60% at best, and will do so until the season ends. If you don't believe me, review the Arkansas game tape and other games from earlier in the year. He was getting to the basket on a regular basis against athletic defenses and moving without the ball as well as any player since Morrison. And he was also defending better.

It many ways his injury is ruining Gonzaga's season, but the Zags are getting away with it because of the soft schedule and the amount of home games.

Ominous but probably spot on. I guess I was hoping for what might have been wishful thinking hoping that sitting him before the BIS for 3 weeks, missing USB, K-State, SCU, SMC and maybe UP - - - woulda coulda shoulda and may well be in the same spot now. We'll never know and it might have been dumber to do that, he might have come back now with the same problems. Too bad, feel bad for him b/c it was looking like he could put a really special season in.

2wiceright
01-24-2014, 12:00 AM
Well, not to get into it all over again but I did also (there were lots of us) and no, I'm not a trainer or physician - - but all that reading material said the risk of continued re-aggravation was huge. He had a real tough time getting open tonight, when he did, he knocked them down.

If Gary gets up to speed (it was nice to see him knock down a 3 and drive a couple of times), that will help take some pressure off of Pangos.

USD played very good Defense.

Dixie, that was one of the first things Few said on the 'Mark Few Show' after the two wins on the road last week. He said (and this was before he was positive Bell would be available this week) as soon as Gary gets back he wants to stop playing Kevin the "heavy" minutes he plays twice a week. He didn't lay out specifics, but I got the impression he would at least sit him 10 minutes a half or more.

Kevin is my favorite Zag right now, but just because he can tough it out doesn't mean he' helping the team in the long run. I agree with every post so far. He's simply a shell of himself, and I'm truly concerned it could get much worse for Kevin (and in the long run) the team. Draino can run the point against most teams, Bell probably even better when he is 100 percent.

CDC84
01-24-2014, 12:18 AM
Coleman wasn't even on the bench during most of the 2nd half. Flu is awful for a basketball player because it dehydrates you, and hydration issues are already an issue with basketball players.

Kevin has played 39, 36, 37 and 40 MPG the past 4 games. Perhaps Few will trim some of his minutes some with Gary's return. We will see. The problem is that Few trusts Kevin so much as a player. It's going to be hard for him to show the discipline to rest him in tight ball games.

JPtheBeasta
01-24-2014, 06:11 AM
I wish people would get an F'in flu shot

Just a friendly FYI: The flu vaccine only protects against 4 strains that the CDC hand picks every year based on what they expect to be the most widespread or cause the most symptoms. There are many, many more flu strains out there, and it mutates very easily. Getting a flu shot is still a good idea, but you can still get the flu.

For example:

FluMist Quadrivalent (Influenza Vaccine Live, Intranasal) is a live quadrivalent vaccine for administration by intranasal spray. FluMist Quadrivalent contains four vaccine virus strains: an A/H1N1 strain, an A/H3N2 strain and two B strains. FluMist Quadrivalent contains B strains from both the B/Yamagata/16/88 and the B/Victoria/2/87 lineages. FluMist Quadrivalent is manufactured according to the same process as FluMist.http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM294307.pdf

CDC84
01-24-2014, 09:05 AM
Also, there are many, many people who can't take the flu shot. That's why you sign all those forms beforehand that ask you if you're allergic to this, are you allergic to that, etc. There are about ten people who are in my dept. at work, and 5 of them are allergic in some way to the shot, so they simply cannot get it. The shot makes them instantly sick.


Just a friendly FYI: The flu vaccine only protects against 4 strains that the CDC hand picks every year based on what they expect to be the most widespread or cause the most symptoms. There are many, many more flu strains out there, and it mutates very easily. Getting a flu shot is still a good idea, but you can still get the flu.

Also, basketball teams travel around the country playing basketball games. They are open to picking up different strains. You are also in constant contact with teammates who could potentially be sick. These guys huddle up, give hi fives, etc. I'm constantly washing my hands at work. They don't have that luxury.

former1dog
01-24-2014, 09:09 AM
Does anyone know if Pangos is practicing regularly? Is he doing the Blake Stepp ride the bike, only play in games routine when he had all those knee problems?

CDC84
01-24-2014, 09:12 AM
A few weeks ago S-R reported that Pangos was missing nearly every practice. I don't know if that's the case still.

He has shot 2 free throws the past three games. If he has a healthy toe, no way that happens. This is a guy who shot 14 foul shots against Dayton in Maui.

Jazzgirl_127
01-24-2014, 09:26 AM
Not knowing all the details (and quite frankly, not wanting to know them eeewww); based on Dower questioning if he had food poisoning vs. the flu, I'm going to guess that the team is calling it the "flu" and meaning the "stomach flu." It's different from influenza and I'm almost certain the flu shot doesn't protect against it.

I hope the guys all get healthy soon, I can't imagine having to get out of bed, let alone travel when you're that sick. Until then, I think their game plan should be telling their man ALL about their recent illness, let him decide if he wants to risk it still being contagious, cough a little, then shoot the open jumper ;)

ZagLawGrad
01-24-2014, 10:32 AM
I still have a hard time embracing the notion that Few is playing Pangos with knowledge that it is detrimental to him. Does anyone really believe otherwise?

I do embrace the notion that if a physican told Few and Pangos that KP should not be playing, then he wouldn't be playing.

BobZag
01-24-2014, 10:42 AM
He physically can't get going. Few does not rest-to-heal these things, only broken bones. This is a decent team with no injuries. It is the most delicate, vulnerable team I've ever seen at GU now. Pangos will be back to 100%...






...next season.

JPtheBeasta
01-24-2014, 11:17 AM
Not knowing all the details (and quite frankly, not wanting to know them eeewww); based on Dower questioning if he had food poisoning vs. the flu, I'm going to guess that the team is calling it the "flu" and meaning the "stomach flu." It's different from influenza and I'm almost certain the flu shot doesn't protect against it.



+1. The "stomach flu" is not caused by the influenza virus and really is a misnomer. Common causes of the nausea/vomiting/diarrhea stuff are the norovirus and rotavirus, which we don't typically get vaccinated for. They are spread by the fecal-oral route, so Few should focus on making sure they wash those poopy hands :]

webspinnre
01-24-2014, 11:40 AM
I still have a hard time embracing the notion that Few is playing Pangos with knowledge that it is detrimental to him. Does anyone really believe otherwise?

I do embrace the notion that if a physican told Few and Pangos that KP should not be playing, then he wouldn't be playing.

I don't think this is likely to be detrimental to him long-term. So far as I know, the worst that happens is the turf toe doesn't go away until he rests. This isn't like playing on a strained ligament that might tear if you keep using it.

gamagin
01-24-2014, 11:43 AM
+1

I agree but playing 39 minutes is not going to help either. I would be worried if he was healthy and playing these minutes. Playing with that injury takes extra energy . At this rate he will not have any legs left come March. The team needs to step up around him and take off some the scoring load. If he can't penetrate, then put him on the wing and let KD or DS get the ball to him as a spot up shooter. On defense play zone, even mix in a 3/4 trap to shake things up a bit (watching 06 ucla vs gu game forgot how effective GU used be when the pressed)

Makes sense as a way of trying to emphasize his best quality.

Unfortunately, the opponents so far have dogged him everywhere he goes except to the bathroom. Smart move not letting this wounded warrior catch a break.

I think the real key is others stepping up and making his role less important to our success and thus taking the pressure off KP. That and less p.t. As a result.

bballbeachbum
01-24-2014, 11:48 AM
anyone who has endured it knows how painful it is and how it negatively impacts your play. mine still bothers me all these years later if I do the wrong movement or wear the wrong shoes

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/footandankleinjuries/a/TurfToe.htm

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00645

ZagsGoZags
01-24-2014, 12:06 PM
It seems that resting him a few weeks won't cure the turf toe. This is our vulnerable year. Next year there may not be so much weight on Kevin's shoulders. I think Coach Few is playing him a lot because at 60% he is still our best point guard, and resting him for 8 games he will come back in and immediately pressure the toe and be right back where we are now.

WBM
01-24-2014, 12:38 PM
If I remember correctly, Kevin injured his toe in the Santa Clara game. I think anyone paying attention would be unsurprised that he went from 18.3ppg to 12.3ppg with the injury. He also went from 34mpg before the injury to 36mpg with the injury. He's actually playing slightly more minutes on average now that he's injured.

maynard g krebs
01-24-2014, 01:48 PM
If I remember correctly, Kevin injured his toe in the Santa Clara game. I think anyone paying attention would be unsurprised that he went from 18.3ppg to 12.3ppg with the injury. He also went from 34mpg before the injury to 36mpg with the injury. He's actually playing slightly more minutes on average now that he's injured.

I think it was well before that. Early December?

CaliforniaZaggin'
01-24-2014, 01:59 PM
With Draginis improving by the week, there is no need to play Kevin such huge minutes. And I'm not talking about rest - I'm talking about performance. A fully healthy Kyle will bring more to the table than a severly hobbled Kevin.

WBM
01-24-2014, 02:02 PM
I think it was well before that. Early December?

You are correct. A "Slipper Still Fits" article tells me it happened in practice before the NM State game...wow.

That actually makes the difference more dramatic. In the first 8 games he averaged 31.75 mpg; in all games after that (including NM State) he has played an average of 36.83 mpg. I see Few's predicament because we've had some pretty close calls in that time, but I imagine we aren't the only ones worrying about KP's future.