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Goshzagit
12-14-2013, 06:31 AM
This may be buried in a thread somewhere, yet couldn't seem to find it.

Given the various concerns, I thought to share.

Per Jim Meehan:


Gonzaga’s backcourt of Kevin Pangos (toe) and Gary Bell Jr. (hip pointer) logged a combined 75 minutes against WVU.

“They’re beat up,” Few said, “but they’re competitive guys.”

Pangos, already dealing with a sprained right big toe, twisted his left ankle late in the first half. He finished with 18 points, including three 3-pointers in the closing minutes. Bell, who missed nearly the entire second half against New Mexico State, made 4 of 6 shots, including 2 of 3 3-pointers, and 5 of 6 free throws. He had a career-high nine rebounds and zero turnovers in 36 minutes.

Bell seemed full speed at practice Tuesday. Pangos was a spectator and will be as much as possible to give his toe healing time. GU faces South Alabama in Seattle on Saturday and Kansas State in Wichita the following Saturday. WCC play begins vs. Santa Clara on Dec. 28.



“I really didn’t think about it during the game,” Pangos said. “It was sore throughout, but I had more things to worry about.”

Pangos said his ankle isn’t serious, but he’s wearing a “contraption” to protect his toe in games.

“There’s a gel pad, a plastic plate,” he said. “I actually had to up my shoe a half size because it was so big.”



More from Meehan and a nice Karnowski article HERE (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/dec/13/gonzaga-7-footer-karnowski-takes-big-steps/).

As suspected, this type of injury sounds as if this will be season-long nagging issue. According to Meehan and the team, it was confirmed "turf toe".

Another poster mentioned earlier, "he may not practice much, if at all, going forward...". This also appears accurate and may be required to wear a so-called 'contraption' in his shoe for some time. After re-watching NMSU and WVU, Kevin is barely jumping off his right foot, especially early in games. He appears to loosen up a bit as the game goes on, yet a noticeable difference on his floaters and dribble-drives, not to mention his defense, when required to push off or move with his right foot. The device and pain is limiting him in certain areas.

I've heard of NFL players trying to play through this injury wearing the same type of foot plate and only able to play a couple games before hanging up the laces because the pain became unbearable.

Knowing Kevin and reading his quote, “It was sore throughout, but I had more things to worry about.”, he's going to continue to play until he simply cannot. Nothing is going to keep him off the floor, unless that toe falls off on its own.

We'll see how this injury progresses -- whether it heals quickly or becomes worse. Definitely not the best of news and mostly what we already knew, yet Pangos is one tough cookie to even be stepping on the court.

FWIW, most players, in ANY sport, are unable to play through this type of injury. Pangos admits his toe has been very painful and says he doesn't know if he's playing until game-day, but man oh man, he's still playing at a high level with a borderline debilitating sports injury (for many).

Unreal.

jazzdelmar
12-14-2013, 07:24 AM
It wd be fun to see if GU cd beat SA w/o Kevin

raise the zag
12-14-2013, 07:50 AM
It wd be fun to see if GU cd beat SA w/o Kevin

+1

See how Stocks handles the reigns vs athletic pressure sans Kevin. How many of those assists are Pangos' 3's via baseline screens, curls, and pops? Someone has to get him the ball, of course, yet 4 of assists vs WVU were Pangos long bombs.

Give Dranginis 30+ mins and see how he does...

Roll out Coleman for 20+ and allow him to play(and learn) through mistakes/TO's...

Give Griffin a chance to get into a game, even in a close one...for rebounding, toughness, grit, defense, etc.

Try Meikle out for a couple more possessions...

This may be far-fetched, yet there is a CHANCE Kevin may not be able to keep pushing through the pain and we are literally one wrong cut away from him being shut down.

Now could be the time to give it a run when we don't necessarily need him.

DixieZag
12-14-2013, 07:56 AM
Plus two.

Said in the "What to see" thread that I want to see Kevin in Jeans and a sweater.

Sitting this game would give him the longest stretch to get better all season - perfect time. If he plays and this is a season long terror, we'll always think, "what if?"

Stocks has been the lead on the point anyway. Gary has always been able to handle the point - prolly would be if we didn't have Kevin. Plus, Gary has to learn to step up and score anyway.

If rest is the only way to settle this down, I think it would be irresponsible to play Kevin - - course, I am not privy to how he's doing.

Vanzagger
12-14-2013, 08:48 AM
Let him warm up then tell him to go put on street clothes. It sounds like he has no business playing today.

Zag365
12-14-2013, 09:02 AM
+1

See how Stocks handles the reigns vs athletic pressure sans Kevin. How many of those assists are Pangos' 3's via baseline screens, curls, and pops? Someone has to get him the ball, of course, yet 4 of assists vs WVU were Pangos long bombs.

Give Dranginis 30+ mins and see how he does...

Roll out Coleman for 20+ and allow him to play(and learn) through mistakes/TO's...

Give Griffin a chance to get into a game, even in a close one...for rebounding, toughness, grit, defense, etc.

Try Meikle out for a couple more possessions...

This may be far-fetched, yet there is a CHANCE Kevin may not be able to keep pushing through the pain and we are literally one wrong cut away from him being shut down.

Now could be the time to give it a run when we don't necessarily need him.

My thoughts exactly.

jazzdelmar
12-14-2013, 09:04 AM
If GU can't win today without KP it won't ever win without KP.

cjm720
12-14-2013, 09:32 AM
He's a warrior, I can't imagine he won't play. Jazz is right.

DixieZag
12-14-2013, 10:19 AM
He's a warrior, I can't imagine he won't play. Jazz is right.

He won't play if he is told to rest by Few. I absolutely agree that he would play, he would if his toe bone was sticking out. But, warriors can be their own worst enemy. I see very little downside to sitting him - even a loss is far less serious than losing him or having him hobbled all year.

Gary and Stocks do fine running the point. Gary does just fine shooting 3s. GC and KD need more time anyway.

CDC84
12-14-2013, 10:30 AM
I just don't think that toe is going to get better until the offseason, even if he sits the next three weeks. He needs to stay away from any activity where he might aggravate the injury for weeks and weeks and weeks. That will not happen until the season ends.

When it comes to sitting out today's game or not, the question isn't whether he should sit it out to rest, but whether he should sit it out because he's facing an opponent that GU is likely to beat without his presence. If he damages the toe to the point where he can't play, I would rather it be in the NCAA tourney than in a non-league game vs. South Alabama.

northsidezagfan
12-14-2013, 11:40 AM
I just don't think that toe is going to get better until the offseason, even if he sits the next three weeks.

+1. It's gonna take a couple weeks just for the pain to go away and probably a few months to get all the strength back. Rest isn't going to hurt but he certainly will still be feeling it in March no matter what. I'd limit his minutes because it is USA after all (knock on wood), but if it were SMC I'm sure he would be playing. I'm not a doc yet but I do not think the risk of progressing the injury is too big, even though there is some risk.

tyra
12-14-2013, 01:26 PM
Egad! From Wkikpedia:

"Turf toe can often progress into a chronic problem, in which the joint(s) never really heals or heals too slowly to return to usual physical activities. It can become more serious if left untreated, and may cause serious problems for the athlete."

raise the zag
12-14-2013, 05:39 PM
Egad! From Wkikpedia:

"Turf toe can often progress into a chronic problem, in which the joint(s) never really heals or heals too slowly to return to usual physical activities. It can become more serious if left untreated, and may cause serious problems for the athlete."


I didn't want to post this, yet must admit, I suffered "turf toe" as a Senior in HS and still suffer from this pain as 32 yr old adult from the SAME injury. Sounds instance, and I initially thought it was in my head or caused from something else, yet my toe sprain was always there, whether it was a coincidence or not, I'll never forget that pain and its the SAME pain from using my feet

While it comes and goes, my current career requires physical prowess, constant lifting, moving, shifting, and consistently on my feet, yet still notice my TOE sprain from years ago. I reaggrevate it constantly...

Not saying this is the same injury that Kevin is dealing with, yet many athletes have admitted this is a life-long injury/issue was suffered...since it requires "playing though"...the injury.

In addition, I broke my hip in football and suffer from residual pain, yet nothing more nagging than that darn toe...I wish I were kidding you, but I know its related.

I hope/pray Kevin's turf toe is not as serious, yet many professionals, doctors, players, trainers, podiatrists, et al continually state the feet are tricky subject in terms of healing and many times are a life-long issue.

I'm saying this is not far-fetched. 14 yrs later still feeling the so-called effects...I know I am.