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Section 116
11-21-2013, 08:44 PM
Few post game on David Stockton's nine assists, nine rebounds, three steals: "That's like his old man's numbers."

Zagdawg
11-21-2013, 08:46 PM
I think he meant 9 pts not 9 boards.

Section 116
11-21-2013, 08:50 PM
Good catch Zagdawq, agreed!

MDABE80
11-21-2013, 09:08 PM
Very good offense driver tonight. Defense?...well...........

zag buddy
11-21-2013, 09:12 PM
coach Brian Michelson said tonight after the game that David is what makes this team go. He does things no one else can do. went on for about 5 min. on how good David is and what he adds to the team. Said there is just no way you can keep him off the floor. That when he is on the bench the coaches really see the difference in the teams play.

Zagdawg
11-21-2013, 09:14 PM
Can't believe the coaches can't see what a few armchair quarterbacks can see---it's not like the coaches see him in practice as well as games.

NumberCruncher
11-21-2013, 09:24 PM
coach Brian Michelson said tonight after the game that David is what makes this team go. He does things no one else can do. went on for about 5 min. on how good David is and what he adds to the team. Said there is just no way you can keep him off the floor. That when he is on the bench the coaches really see the difference in the teams play.

And the statistics back him up.

john montana
11-21-2013, 09:29 PM
Best game I have seen him play.

gamagin
11-21-2013, 09:41 PM
coach Brian Michelson said tonight after the game that David is what makes this team go. He does things no one else can do. went on for about 5 min. on how good David is and what he adds to the team. Said there is just no way you can keep him off the floor. That when he is on the bench the coaches really see the difference in the teams play.

Michaelson is right. DS is the the undisputed floor leader. The a quarterback.

Anyone willing to watch a game can see this. He's the only one out there who knows where everyone is, where they should be, what the marching orders are and goes for it. Every possession.

If I could wave a wand, I'd have him sag a little less on his man. But he does it because he's trying to help someone else (usually a big, or the middle with a strip or disruption) with his man.

Thus we see him running towards his man as he shoots, sometimes missing an interruption by a fingernail. Sometimes more. IF he stuck to just his man, I think he'd be just fine. But he double teams down low and tries to guard up top. Not a flaw, so much as a gamble. He's a gambler, too.

To hell with playing it safe. Safe is for everyone else. He didn't move from walk on to valued qb playing it safe. Adjust to it if your a skeptic. See if you can come to enjoy the amazing effort going on before your eyes. It's a rare treat to watch this guy operate. Much like it was watching Hart do his thing.

We will notice the difference when he's gone. I guarantee it.

Reborn
11-21-2013, 09:58 PM
I have changed my mind about Stockton for now. He's playing real well, but I don't see it as you do Gamagin. I don't think he's the one that makes the team go. This is a very good team with very skilled players. There are four real good guards out there, Stockton, Pangos, Bell and Dranginis who can all shoot, pass and have high IQ's for the game. I like the team when David's in there, they seem more cohesive at this point. We still need to see what happens in Maui. I have never worried about his offense. It's his D. But so far it's been good most of the time.

You seem to think David really stands out, and I don't. I think he fits in to the strength of this team, which is ball handling and passing. He is one of four guys I really enjoyed watching tonight, both on the offensive and defensive end. The guys play together. I felt Dranginis made more of an impact on this game then Stockton did, and we would all agree that Barham was really knocking 'em down. I like David, Gamagin, and see improvement. I just don't think he's one of those guys that I will say, "Boy we really miss David S" when he's gone. I enjoyed the game immensely, even if I saw it a little differently then you did. the nice thing is the outcome was the same, no matter who was watching and what they saw. There were so many good things to see tonight.

Oh speaking of Mike Hart. I think Barham is more Mike Hart like then Stockton. Barham was simply fabulous tonight. 17 points and 8 rebounds, and all over the court with hustle. Ha ha ha. Mike Hart could never have impacted a game the way Drew Barham did tonight. Mike Hart could not score 17 points in his dreams. I just hope Barham can keep it up. He will be the one I will miss if he does.

bigblahla
11-22-2013, 02:58 AM
Michaelson is right. DS is the the undisputed floor leader. The a quarterback.

Anyone willing to watch a game can see this. He's the only one out there who knows where everyone is, where they should be, what the marching orders are and goes for it. Every possession.

If I could wave a wand, I'd have him sag a little less on his man. But he does it because he's trying to help someone else (usually a big, or the middle with a strip or disruption) with his man.

Thus we see him running towards his man as he shoots, sometimes missing an interruption by a fingernail. Sometimes more. IF he stuck to just his man, I think he'd be just fine. But he double teams down low and tries to guard up top. Not a flaw, so much as a gamble. He's a gambler, too.

To hell with playing it safe. Safe is for everyone else. He didn't move from walk on to valued qb playing it safe. Adjust to it if your a skeptic. See if you can come to enjoy the amazing effort going on before your eyes. It's a rare treat to watch this guy operate. Much like it was watching Hart do his thing.

We will notice the difference when he's gone. I guarantee it.


Great post! I agree. Stocks may be diminutive in stature but he has a huge heart for the game and the biggest BB IQ on the floor.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

Hoopaholic
11-22-2013, 05:57 AM
I think it is fair to say the coaching staff feels the team success or failure than depends on his play....shall be an interesting year

Bushman
11-22-2013, 06:30 AM
Michaelson is right. DS is the the undisputed floor leader. The a quarterback.

Anyone willing to watch a game can see this. He's the only one out there who knows where everyone is, where they should be, what the marching orders are and goes for it. Every possession.

If I could wave a wand, I'd have him sag a little less on his man. But he does it because he's trying to help someone else (usually a big, or the middle with a strip or disruption) with his man.

Thus we see him running towards his man as he shoots, sometimes missing an interruption by a fingernail. Sometimes more. IF he stuck to just his man, I think he'd be just fine. But he double teams down low and tries to guard up top. Not a flaw, so much as a gamble. He's a gambler, too.

To hell with playing it safe. Safe is for everyone else. He didn't move from walk on to valued qb playing it safe. Adjust to it if your a skeptic. See if you can come to enjoy the amazing effort going on before your eyes. It's a rare treat to watch this guy operate. Much like it was watching Hart do his thing.

We will notice the difference when he's gone. I guarantee it.


Nice post but respectfully disagree. David does pass well, especially to the bigs but who do you want bringing up the ball and quaterbacking the team in a tough matchup, I'm not wanting David. I want the best handle on the team, a quality shooter who is good from the line, a decent defender, someone that can drive and dish, someone who doesn't turn the ball over too much and someone with a high basketball IQ. I want a leader, someone who does the talking on the floor and someone who could potentially turn a game around with his offense. Guess who I want, I coached him in High School.....and I am very biased, sorry.

This is fun....

vandalzag
11-22-2013, 07:21 AM
DS comes out in the first half and the offense grinds to a halt. He makes the offense go, that is why he is there. If his name was Joe Smith this argument would not be happening and people would be jumping up and down about how much of a gamer he is, how smart he plays etc.. He does sag too much on the weak side, but so does everybody else as this is Few's strategy. He will not be a defensive stopper, but nor will anybody on this roster but maybe Bell. Players get beat, but when nobody rotates from the weak side it stands out (DS was not the only one getting run by last night). I will take 5.5 assists to 1.8 TO's and 2.5 steals any day of the week.

gamagin
11-22-2013, 07:33 AM
Nice post but respectfully disagree. David does pass well, especially to the bigs but who do you want bringing up the ball and quaterbacking the team in a tough matchup, I'm not wanting David. I want the best handle on the team, a quality shooter who is good from the line, a decent defender, someone that can drive and dish, someone who doesn't turn the ball over too much and someone with a high basketball IQ. I want a leader, someone who does the talking on the floor and someone who could potentially turn a game around with his offense. Guess who I want, I coached him in High School.....and I am very biased, sorry.

This is fun....

No worries, everyone. Good posts.

I think it's great two very high iq, small ego, excellent, complimentary teammates & guards, are on the floor at the same time.

It IS fun. What opponents do or try to break up this developing, cohesive, combo of snipers, ball handlers & bigs will tell the tale.

I think the fact that KP is clearly the better shooter and DS is (arguably) the better qb/play-maker/passer, is one reason Few likes them both on the floor and why together they set the ever improving, unique, fast-paced offensive game we see emerging. together.

And this style is rubbing off on what until now have been role players, like KD, Barham et al. PK has picked up the pace and SD is also tuned into his quick release. GBj is yet another lock down defender who, when he's feeling it, can score in a flash, too.

But to the point and how we or the coaches see this unfolding. the coaches have for some time, come to rely on DS as the guy who mostly sets it all in motion. He interprets, reads the situation and flow & distributes to the hot hand. Like KP and the rest. And I agree this, de facto, is the case and the best case.

And you are spot on, too. It IS great fun. Win-win.

Zagdawg
11-22-2013, 07:38 AM
I like that David is a distributor who does a great job getting his teammates involved. Like a good number of posters have said he gets the offense going.

Pangos seems to be doing better with this aspect of his game also-- his assist numbers are increasing-- but he has always been a scoring guy before a distributor-- which is fine because he has the skillset to do so (I like the work he has done with attacking the basket this year).

In the future -- when Josh P gets here-- it will be great to have a scoring distibutor (a taller Dickau).

Either way all of our guards bring a good skillset to the team -- each has their strengths and each has their areas where they need to work on still.

Go Zags!

rennis
11-22-2013, 07:39 AM
If I could wave a wand, I'd have him sag a little less on his man. But he does it because he's trying to help someone else (usually a big, or the middle with a strip or disruption) with his man.

Thus we see him running towards his man as he shoots, sometimes missing an interruption by a fingernail. Sometimes more. IF he stuck to just his man, I think he'd be just fine. But he double teams down low and tries to guard up top. Not a flaw, so much as a gamble. He's a gambler, too.


YES!! This is my only real beef with David's play - he is so quick to give help on D that his assignment gets left open on the perimeter. Happens a lot more than it should.

He is so good at getting to the rim that I also wish he would essentially never shoot 3s either. Especially this year, where there are so many other shooters on the floor he can penetrate and dish to if he doesn't get a good lay-in...which he usually does when he drives.

hooter73
11-22-2013, 07:42 AM
Nice post but respectfully disagree. David does pass well, especially to the bigs but who do you want bringing up the ball and quaterbacking the team in a tough matchup, I'm not wanting David. I want the best handle on the team, a quality shooter who is good from the line, a decent defender, someone that can drive and dish, someone who doesn't turn the ball over too much and someone with a high basketball IQ. I want a leader, someone who does the talking on the floor and someone who could potentially turn a game around with his offense. Guess who I want, I coached him in High School.....and I am very biased, sorry.

This is fun....

Ummm how is that not Stockton again?

;)

bigblahla
11-22-2013, 07:44 AM
Nice post but respectfully disagree. David does pass well, especially to the bigs but who do you want bringing up the ball and quaterbacking the team in a tough matchup, I'm not wanting David. I want the best handle on the team, a quality shooter who is good from the line, a decent defender, someone that can drive and dish, someone who doesn't turn the ball over too much and someone with a high basketball IQ. I want a leader, someone who does the talking on the floor and someone who could potentially turn a game around with his offense. Guess who I want, I coached him in High School.....and I am very biased, sorry.

This is fun....

You did a heck of a job coach but then Kevin is a heck of a kid and beloved by the entire GUNation.

Go!! Zags!!!

hooter73
11-22-2013, 07:50 AM
The thought of how Perkins will work with Pangos is interesting. I know Josh is said to be a distributer, but really I see him as more a Pangos type player than a Stockton one. Always fun to see the changes from year to year. Dont know if anyone thought DS would be the primary ball handler this year... but it is early too I guess.

I really like this team.

hooter73
11-22-2013, 07:52 AM
And of course Kevin would have gaudy numbers in whatever column he wanted them in. I think it was Pargo that got gruff from fans because it seemed like he could either pass or score, not both. Not the same issue with Pangos. HE plays to the strength of the balanced team.

former1dog
11-22-2013, 07:56 AM
Stockton's matador defense worked with the "old rules", funneling his man toward the bigs. But now it just gets those guys in foul trouble. He needs to adjust this part of his game by (a) staying in front of his man and (b) taking the fouls instead of exposing the bigs.

Other than that, I agree thats he's an important part of our team and is an excellent offensive PG with great vision.

Zageist
11-22-2013, 08:00 AM
the kid played very well...that tasted funny. But, no denying it.

Zagdawg
11-22-2013, 08:07 AM
Josh P first game of the year-- 9 assists and 5 pts-- he uses the strengths of his teammates well (he has some good scorers on his team). He has had 17 pts and 12 pts in following games (they have not been listing his assists in the stats that I see).

Last year he averaged 22 pts, 5.9 assists 5.5 rbs -- he seems like a player who is going to do what his team needs -- between scoring and getting his team involved.

It is a good mindset for a point guard-- give him a year under Pangos to learn the ropes and go from there.

Bushman
11-22-2013, 08:44 AM
Stockton's matador defense worked with the "old rules", funneling his man toward the bigs. But now it just gets those guys in foul trouble. He needs to adjust this part of his game by (a) staying in front of his man and (b) taking the fouls instead of exposing the bigs.

Other than that, I agree thats he's an important part of our team and is an excellent offensive PG with great vision.

Great point!

Hoopaholic
11-22-2013, 11:24 AM
+1

Hoopaholic
11-22-2013, 11:27 AM
Ummm how is that not Stockton again?

;)

watch who brings the ball up and direct theoffense during tight periods, pressing defenses....it is Kevin not David

DixieZag
11-22-2013, 12:03 PM
Kevin, like Dower and PK seems to have taken his game to another level this year.

If simply add two tiny wish list items for him as the year goes along - and not have people calling for me to take my own life - I would want him to concentrate on his first FT (he almost always misses the first and makes the second = concentration issues), and to simply not push risky passes early in the shot clock.

He has been playing extraordinarily well and the fact that he and others are showing us a little more than we expected bodes real well for this team.

cjm720
11-22-2013, 12:04 PM
Nothing wrong with having two point guards playing at the same time, especially given our guard depth. Stocks continues to amaze despite his doubters. Last night was one of his best games, and IMO Pangos and Stocks both play better when they're both in the game together...they're heady players with that "it" factor.

mgadfly
11-22-2013, 01:47 PM
Michaelson is right. DS is the the undisputed floor leader. The a quarterback.

Anyone willing to watch a game can see this. He's the only one out there who knows where everyone is, where they should be, what the marching orders are and goes for it. Every possession.

If I could wave a wand, I'd have him sag a little less on his man. But he does it because he's trying to help someone else (usually a big, or the middle with a strip or disruption) with his man.

Thus we see him running towards his man as he shoots, sometimes missing an interruption by a fingernail. Sometimes more. IF he stuck to just his man, I think he'd be just fine. But he double teams down low and tries to guard up top. Not a flaw, so much as a gamble. He's a gambler, too.

To hell with playing it safe. Safe is for everyone else. He didn't move from walk on to valued qb playing it safe. Adjust to it if your a skeptic. See if you can come to enjoy the amazing effort going on before your eyes. It's a rare treat to watch this guy operate. Much like it was watching Hart do his thing.

We will notice the difference when he's gone. I guarantee it.

I like Stockton being out there, I just think this overstates it. Stockton is a gambler who takes risks that he shouldn't, both on offense and defense. He is the smallest of our small guards. He isn't perfect, he isn't the only one who knows the offense and understands where everyone is supposed to be, and he isn't the offensive threat that the other guys are. Pangos, Bell, and Dranginis all have good assist rates while avoiding the turnovers. They play multiple positions (unlike Stocks who is limited to PG) within the offense and defense. They are scorers as well as passers.

It is a good group. Stockton has a role. But we have a few other guards that are playing their roles just as well.

Colbyspapa
11-22-2013, 02:58 PM
I have changed my mind about Stockton for now. He's playing real well, but I don't see it as you do Gamagin. I don't think he's the one that makes the team go. This is a very good team with very skilled players. There are four real good guards out there, Stockton, Pangos, Bell and Dranginis who can all shoot, pass and have high IQ's for the game. I like the team when David's in there, they seem more cohesive at this point. We still need to see what happens in Maui. I have never worried about his offense. It's his D. But so far it's been good most of the time.

You seem to think David really stands out, and I don't. I think he fits in to the strength of this team, which is ball handling and passing. He is one of four guys I really enjoyed watching tonight, both on the offensive and defensive end. The guys play together. I felt Dranginis made more of an impact on this game then Stockton did, and we would all agree that Barham was really knocking 'em down. I like David, Gamagin, and see improvement. I just don't think he's one of those guys that I will say, "Boy we really miss David S" when he's gone. I enjoyed the game immensely, even if I saw it a little differently then you did. the nice thing is the outcome was the same, no matter who was watching and what they saw. There were so many good things to see tonight.

Oh speaking of Mike Hart. I think Barham is more Mike Hart like then Stockton. Barham was simply fabulous tonight. 17 points and 8 rebounds, and all over the court with hustle. Ha ha ha. Mike Hart could never have impacted a game the way Drew Barham did tonight. Mike Hart could not score 17 points in his dreams. I just hope Barham can keep it up. He will be the one I will miss if he does.

Sorry Reborn. I disagree and I think you are missing it. Gam is correct, Michaelson is correct. When David is on the floor, this offense runs smooth. He puts people in the right position and if they aren't there, he adjust the rest of the team just by his movement. You wonder why Drew was getting so many quality looks tonight? Stockton creates them when he comes up the floor in transition. Dickau must have said "flatten the defense" 6 times last night as he spoke about David and Kevin in transition drawing the defense away from the person who eventually got the shot.

David creates opportunities every time he touches the ball. This is especially evident when he drives the lane or by his movement without the ball. He does things that don't fill the stat sheet for him, but fill the stat sheet for others. No one else on this team has the court vision David demonstrates. He doesn't look like a D1 basketball player but we are very lucky to have him and he has been good for a win or two every season he's been with us. (3 years ago I was at the WCC tournament where he saved our bacon against St. Mary's) This year, with our backcourt depth, I suspect it will be more than a couple wins that happen because of David. I've been a fan for 4 years because of how hard he works, now I'm a fan because of how good he is at the position I've always felt was most important.

Reborn you are right in a few things, we have 4 outstanding guards, that number could be 6 if you push.

GonzaGAW
11-22-2013, 03:40 PM
Best game I have seen him play.

ditto

maynard g krebs
11-22-2013, 04:33 PM
When David is on the floor, this offense runs smooth. He puts people in the right position and if they aren't there, he adjust the rest of the team just by his movement. You wonder why Drew was getting so many quality looks tonight? Stockton creates them when he comes up the floor in transition. Dickau must have said "flatten the defense" 6 times last night as he spoke about David and Kevin in transition drawing the defense away from the person who eventually got the shot.

David creates opportunities every time he touches the ball. This is especially evident when he drives the lane or by his movement without the ball. He does things that don't fill the stat sheet for him, but fill the stat sheet for others. No one else on this team has the court vision David demonstrates.

Very well said.

And since there's so much "either-or" talk on this subject, regarding DS/KP at the point- I don't think it matters, and I don't think it matters to the players. I get the sense the 3 starting guards love playing together. They have gotten to the point that they know exactly what the others are going to do, and the offense is running as smoothly and seamlessly as I can remember. All 4 guards incl KD are averaging close to 3 assists or better, and that makes for all the easy open looks.

Hoopaholic
11-22-2013, 05:26 PM
without a doubt his best offensive game in his career.....defense needs to adjust some still as both bigs fouls were caused by his being out of position within the first few minutes of game and that IMO has to adjust this year or we will pay dearly in a few games due to our lack of bigs...I strongly sense the out of position defensive issues with be corralled and adjusted....we will go as far as he takes us