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View Full Version : Stats after 3 games -- What are you most surprised by?



Zagdawg
11-18-2013, 01:42 PM
What stands out for you? (Yes-- we know it is early-- but it gives us something to talk about).

For me-- we have 5 guys in double figures scoring and Karnowski has the lowest average right now (hope/expect that to change in the future).

We have 4 guys averaging over 3 assists per game-- good team ball.

Big K is shooting over 71% from the line....that is great!


http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh559/zagdawg/3GameStats1.jpg (http://s1251.photobucket.com/user/zagdawg/media/3GameStats1.jpg.html)




http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh559/zagdawg/3GameStats2.jpg (http://s1251.photobucket.com/user/zagdawg/media/3GameStats2.jpg.html)


From ESPN
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs

rennis
11-18-2013, 01:52 PM
Coleman's minutes. Those are low for his skill set. I predict he's averaging 24mpg+ by January.

bartruff1
11-18-2013, 01:55 PM
It is not too early for me to be amazed that Karno is hitting 70% of his FTs...that I could never have imagined...too early for the rest of it,

BTB
11-18-2013, 02:14 PM
I'm pretty surprised that we have 3 starters averaging less than 1 TO each.. that is pretty darn good.

MDABE80
11-18-2013, 02:35 PM
I doubt this data will hold up after Maui. For now though, it's unexpectedly good.

Hoopaholic
11-18-2013, 02:35 PM
two guys accounting for 5.6 tunrovers a game.....ouch

that we have 2 guys shooting less than 60% from free throw line....ouch

two shooters shooting less than 40% from three point line.....ouch

Karno is only getting 5.7 rebounds per game....ouch

love the balanced scoring, love the assists

shocker for me is coleman is 7th in minutes out of 8 regulars........surprising YET LEADS TEAM IN STEALS and 4th in PPG........seems ODD

jazzdelmar
11-18-2013, 02:44 PM
I doubt this data will hold up after Maui. For now though, it's unexpectedly good.

Clearly, DS leading in minutes is confounding given there are at least two, maybe three, other guards with comparable or superior skills.

UberZagFan
11-18-2013, 02:44 PM
Dower's rebounds. Hands down. Last year he averaged .16 rebounds per minute; this year: .35 per minute in 3 games. Yes, small sample size, but that is an astronomical jump.

cjm720
11-18-2013, 02:54 PM
The minutes for Karno and Coleman...would have thought those would have been higher through three games.

exclusivelee
11-18-2013, 02:55 PM
that we have 2 guys shooting less than 60% from free throw line....ouch

Small sample size:

1. Barham has only taken 2 free throws
2. Stocks has never been a good free throw shooter



two shooters shooting less than 40% from three point line.....ouch

Pangos has shot over 40% from 3 in each of his first 2 years... don't expect him to shoot as low as 37.5% all season (and it's not like that is a bad percentage for 3's anyway)

kitzbuel
11-18-2013, 02:57 PM
Clearly, DS leading in minutes is confounding given there are at least two, maybe three, other guards with comparable or superior skills.

KD and DS have pretty similar numbers except for minutes. Interesting.

exclusivelee
11-18-2013, 02:58 PM
The minutes for Karno and Coleman...would have thought those would have been higher through three games.

Shem's foul and turnover rates... not pretty

Coleman had 2 bad turnovers last night too (and he did get a bit too upset over 1 foul call (lucky he didn't get T'd up after running off))

Worthington
11-18-2013, 03:01 PM
Field goal percentage is jaw dropping, especially considering we're not a team that just has the superior athleticism to get lots of easy dunks and layups.

jazzdelmar
11-18-2013, 03:03 PM
KD and DS have pretty similar numbers except for minutes. Interesting.

Exactly. Not quite building for the future.

GonzaGAW
11-18-2013, 03:31 PM
- thx zagdawg for the stat sheet

- my number one positive take away is our assist to turnover rate 1.6 is sky high good. last year we had one of our best seasons and it was around 1.33.
tougher competition will see that go down a bit. but so far its great. my word only 10 turnovers a game places a team in the top 5 percentile.
- one thing that i'd like to see different is 20 plus minutes for coleman and a couple more a game for karnowski. i'm not a Stockton basher, in fact he is one of the few players who has shown steady improvement each year. but he should not be leading the team in minutes played. and I suspect after 6 more games or so we will see that come down as coleman and karnowski minutes go up.

DixieZag
11-18-2013, 05:02 PM
That Gary is scoring so easily - - 18 pts a game.

The minutes, like everyone says.

Reborn
11-18-2013, 05:08 PM
shocker for me is coleman is 7th in minutes out of 8 regulars........surprising YET LEADS TEAM IN STEALS and 4th in PPG........seems ODD

I believe he's 8th in average min per game. 1st in steals, tied for 3rd in rebounding, 3rd in field goal %. 3rd in Foul Shooting %, and 4th in average per game.

You're beginning to see my frustration.

sittingon50
11-18-2013, 05:44 PM
Small sample size. Game #2 Pangos got in foul trouble, DS got more run.

exclusivelee
11-18-2013, 05:57 PM
I believe he's 8th in average min per game.

ESPN's & GoZags' stats both equal 53 minutes played for Coleman... 52 for Barham

Coleman #7 in minutes, Barham #8

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs

... but Barham has been the first sub off the bench each of the 3 games (in for Shem every time)

exclusivelee
11-18-2013, 06:07 PM
It would be more helpful if the NCAA would track it down to the exact number of seconds play.

Meikle, Griffin, & Bhaskar each came in the game for the first time with only 27 sec left in the game, but on the boxscore, they list minutes played for each at 0

Lewey
11-18-2013, 06:14 PM
Not only Coleman's scoring / steals compared to his minutes, but he also is tied with Karnowski for the lead in offensive rebounds with 5.

maynard g krebs
11-18-2013, 06:32 PM
two guys accounting for 5.6 tunrovers a game.....ouch

Karno is only getting 5.7 rebounds per game....ouch



1) Stockton has 4.3 assists to 2.3 turnovers, which isn't that bad a ratio.
2) Karno is getting 5.7 rebounds in 19 minutes, one every 3.3 minutes which is actually better than most recent GU bigs, including Olynyk, Harris, and Sacre.

Zags11
11-18-2013, 06:41 PM
We are doin well. I'm unimpressed with karno right now but it is early. Good test vs wazzu.

Hoopaholic
11-18-2013, 07:03 PM
2 assist to every turnover is not a good ratio for a starting point guard ( last year we were 4 to 1)

Karno would have more rebounds per game if he could stay on the court more with less foul trouble

Karno needs to cut down turnovers

Both issues that need to be improved for us to be long term successful as competition level increases

BTB
11-18-2013, 07:06 PM
2 assist to every turnover is not a good ratio for a starting point guard ( last year we were 4 to 1)

According to the NCAA website, last years A/T Ratio leader was Dexter Strickland with a ratio of 3.19. David finished last year at 10th in the nation with a ratio of 2.77. Not sure where you got your stats.

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/individual/473

DixieZag
11-18-2013, 07:12 PM
2 assist to every turnover is not a good ratio for a starting point guard ( last year we were 4 to 1)

Karno would have more rebounds per game if he could stay on the court more with less foul trouble

Karno needs to cut down turnovers

Both issues that need to be improved for us to be long term successful as competition level increases

That is a great point - - let me run this by you. David is high risk and high reward, no guard dishes as many easy lay-ups to the bigs but no guard take more needless risks, that is my thought but I oughta check it with people that know.

It seems to me he has to really work on using that weapon at the right time and place. Is the 25 second mark of the shot clock in a game where people are hot from beyond the arc the time to try a risky lob over the top? Is it time to try the risky back door bounce pass? We have seen it and we have seen him make more than anyone could but there simply is no need at that point and the turnovers that result are simply avoidable.

I would like to say he will get better at it but he is a 5th year senior - - I hope as he sees that this is a different team where pounding it inside is not the primary and secondary option, he will be doing the needless stuff less and less and saving it for when it is truly needed, 8 seconds on the shot clock and defense over playing.

Hoopaholic
11-18-2013, 07:21 PM
BTB. Was wrong was 3-1. Ratio after first three games by our point guard I looked in wrong column

maynard g krebs
11-18-2013, 07:38 PM
Agree Karno needs to avoid the late body bump fouls that put him on the bench early and often; just sayin he's rebounding at a good rate when on the floor.

maynard g krebs
11-18-2013, 07:46 PM
DIckau averaged 4.7 assts and 2.9 to's his AA year. Guys who create a lot often turn it over more. Question is always whether risk is worth it. David's high risk passes often lead to easy layups and imo play a role in team's top 7 fg% with the bigs shooting at 70%.

DixieZag
11-18-2013, 08:00 PM
DIckau averaged 4.7 assts and 2.9 to's his AA year. Guys who create a lot often turn it over more. Question is always whether risk is worth it. David's high risk passes often lead to easy layups and imo play a role in team's top 7 fg% with the bigs shooting at 70%.

No doubt about that. Just wonder if he is too quick to pull the trigger sometimes. It's early and guys are still getting back to game speed. May well improve even more over the year.

Robzagnut
11-18-2013, 08:14 PM
1. How thin is their front court. Can't imagine what it's going to be like when Karnowski and Dower both get 2 fouls. A team like BYU is going to exploit this weakness. I sure hope Angel Nunez turns out to be more of a JP Batista type and not a Bol Kong type. Someone who can quickly fit in and learn the system. Nunez just might be the key to how deep they go this year. Get better soon Ryan, please!

1a. This is not a Top 15 team. Not yet. Maybe not ever. When they play an athletic team that shuts down Pangos and Bell I want to see if there's another scorer besides Dower. They will need a consistent 4th scorer. I'm waiting to see who that will be.

Hoopaholic
11-18-2013, 08:44 PM
I like your concept Maynard except the facts don't equate to the hypothisis so far early season

3 of 5 assists so far this year to our bigs by David were in the paint, the other two were jumpers
He has 4 assists to bell for three point shots
So 3 of 13 assists were for in the paint conversion ( other two dower jump shots)
Seems to me he is finding Gary for the three ball more than the bigs for high percentage shots

Kevin has all 5 assist to the bigs in the paint
5 of his 11 were to bigs for high percentage shots

We are perimeter based so far and I think we need to close the balance a little bit

Hoopaholic
11-18-2013, 08:45 PM
Rob....the team that can shut pango and bell down at same time better have an athletic wing to contain Coleman because the drive will be wide open......and that will be one tough team

I am more worried about dual foul trouble with bigs thus perimeter defense needs to be rock solid with less risk gambling and out of position this year more than ever

HenneZag
11-18-2013, 09:38 PM
My only real concern right now is Karno. Some ppl seem to think he is NBA bound next year. There is no way that is the case judging off his development from last year over the last 3 games. We need him to step up and play with toughness and poise. He is great when he has a clear path but still seems to struggle when he is is traffic, multiple times where he just chucks the ball at the rim when pressured, he still hasn't adjusted to the U.S style of basketball. I have faith in the big man, just not liking what I am seeing so far, prove me wrong big fella. If we don't establish more balance when we play teams that can run up and down on us and expose our bigs we will be in trouble, yes we have escaped so far but the competition level is starting to pick up.

As far as the small lineup, I can see the reason for it, Few likes his security blanket and Stocks provides that. I would prefer to start Coleman just to add more length and athleticism, Stocks and Pangos on the floor together seem to cancel eachother out just a bit, jmo.

Big game Thursday I will be there to lose my voice.

SteelZag
11-18-2013, 09:43 PM
The most glaring stat to me so far is that while winning by an average of 24 PPG, PK isn't left in the game longer after his second foul and attempt to learn how to play while in foul trouble. I'm not convinced the outcome of each game would have been any different if he had fouled out in the first ten minutes of each game.

As it is, he really hasn't stayed in games long enough to enjoy any continuity and feel for the game.

Kiddwell
11-18-2013, 09:53 PM
*Kiddwell loves the Karnivore, but expected him to be a bit more "ruthless" this year. Wish he'd go after those rebounds like a, well, meat-eater. On the other hand, this fan expects Karno's game to be much improved by NCAA's time.

*A bit surprised Coleman didn't play a bit more vs. Oakland.

*Finally, surprised the experts ranked us as high as 15th at season's beginning. Hope we're that good (and a half) by season's end. A 4-Seed in the Big Dance would be sweet.


:]

Zags11
11-18-2013, 10:07 PM
DIckau averaged 4.7 assts and 2.9 to's his AA year. Guys who create a lot often turn it over more. Question is always whether risk is worth it. David's high risk passes often lead to easy layups and imo play a role in team's top 7 fg% with the bigs shooting at 70%.

I wouldn't exactly call dan a legit pg. He reminded me of a small sg.

Zags11
11-18-2013, 10:08 PM
DIckau averaged 4.7 assts and 2.9 to's his AA year. Guys who create a lot often turn it over more. Question is always whether risk is worth it. David's high risk passes often lead to easy layups and imo play a role in team's top 7 fg% with the bigs shooting at 70%.

I wouldn't exactly call dan a legit pg. He reminded me of a small sg.

UberZagFan
11-19-2013, 10:10 AM
I wouldn't exactly call dan a legit pg. He reminded me of a small sg.

Hmm. Interesting.

maynard g krebs
11-19-2013, 10:32 AM
I wouldn't exactly call dan a legit pg. He reminded me of a small sg.

All I can do with this one is quote my fellow fictional character The Dude: "well, um, that's, like, your opinion, man".