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SWZag
11-13-2013, 01:15 AM
Searched and couldn't find this posted, so if it has, mods, please move. Thanks.

RecruitingNation Class Rankings (http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/classrankings/_/class/2014/date/20131112http://)

Gonzaga ranked at number 37 for the best 2014 class. Below Purdue and above Mizzou. Going any further will need an Insider password. Any new information on GU from anyone with an Insider account?

SWZag

ZagaZags
11-13-2013, 01:34 AM
Searched and couldn't find this posted, so if it has, mods, please move. Thanks.

RecruitingNation Class Rankings (http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/classrankings/_/class/2014/date/20131112http://)

Gonzaga ranked at number 37 for the best 2014 class. Below Purdue and above Mizzou. Going any further will need an Insider password. Any new information on GU from anyone with an Insider account?

SWZag

I think they forget about Wiltjer.

KStyles
11-13-2013, 02:03 AM
They mention getting Perkins, Melson and Alberts for the 'Who They Have', but they mention as 'Who They Want' the Reid Travis loss, and 'one of the hottest new prospects in the West' Cameron Oliver as well as 2015s Chimezie Metu, Jimbo Lull and Brodricks Jones.

GoZags
11-13-2013, 06:32 AM
I think they forget about Wiltjer.

Why would they include Wiltjer? These class rankings are about recruits who will sign their Letter of Intents. If there was a chart about transfers from another school and Kyle Wiltjer was missing, you'd have a point.

jazzdelmar
11-13-2013, 06:34 AM
Why would they include Wiltjer? These class rankings are about recruits who will sign their Letter of Intents. If there was a chart about transfers from another school and Kyle Wiltjer was missing, you'd have a point.

Why you say, because ZagaZags is a ####-eyed optimist.....

Zagcity
11-13-2013, 07:13 AM
Why you say, because ZagaZags is a ####-eyed optimist.....

Open-eyed or wide-eyed optmist? :confused:

Zagdawg
11-13-2013, 07:33 AM
Or just non negative fan?

DixieZag
11-13-2013, 07:58 AM
I want guys with these names! Chimezie Metu, Jimbo Lull and Brodricks Jones

We would be well on our way to the all name team.

willandi
11-13-2013, 08:13 AM
Seems that if the intent is to rate incoming classes then Wiltjer should have been included. If the intent is to simply name the schools that have the best HS players to sign LOI then he should not have been included.
Anyone who thinks that the addition of Wiltjer, to the class of HS players that are coming to Gonzaga next year, won't make a meaningful and substantial difference then they are living in a fog.
And I don't know how well HS players, untested at the college game, can realistically be ranked. IMO there are too many variables, quality of competition, size of opponents, amount of travel etc. That is just MY opinion, ans any others are probably equally valid!

thespywhozaggedme
11-13-2013, 08:21 AM
He's not an incoming high school player. Occum's Razor.


Seems that if the intent is to rate incoming classes then Wiltjer should have been included. If the intent is to simply name the schools that have the best HS players to sign LOI then he should not have been included.
Anyone who thinks that the addition of Wiltjer, to the class of HS players that are coming to Gonzaga next year, won't make a meaningful and substantial difference then they are living in a fog.
And I don't know how well HS players, untested at the college game, can realistically be ranked. IMO there are too many variables, quality of competition, size of opponents, amount of travel etc. That is just MY opinion, ans any others are probably equally valid!

Zagdawg
11-13-2013, 08:49 AM
Agree he is not on the recruiting list because he is not an incoming high school recruit-- but he will have an impact.

He has national title experience--2011 All American-- ranking #18 recruit per ESPN -- when we saw him in the scrimmage -- he was one of the best players on the floor (similiar to what we saw with Coleman the year before). He was 6th man of the year in the SEC who averaged 10.2 pts 4.2 rbs 37% from 3 and 81% FT.

We will be happy to have him.

titopoet
11-13-2013, 09:24 AM
Seems that if the intent is to rate incoming classes then Wiltjer should have been included. If the intent is to simply name the schools that have the best HS players to sign LOI then he should not have been included.
Anyone who thinks that the addition of Wiltjer, to the class of HS players that are coming to Gonzaga next year, won't make a meaningful and substantial difference then they are living in a fog.
And I don't know how well HS players, untested at the college game, can realistically be ranked. IMO there are too many variables, quality of competition, size of opponents, amount of travel etc. That is just MY opinion, ans any others are probably equally valid!

They are not evaluating the team, but the recruiting class based on incoming High School (usually American) talent. If Domantas Sabonis says yes to GU, it will not move the needle because he wouldn't be rated. (Even though he is a top 10 five star type recruit.) The class that brought in Dower, Kelly O, and Elias was rated okay, but less to do with those three studs as Manny Arop was the highest rated with Elias not even rated. (those dang ferners). So the class that produce at least two NBA players (maybe more with the Dower is playing) and All American and lotto pick and a productive player on ISU (Arop) didn't make the top 25 for that year.

The way GU recruits with its reliance on international players, it usually doesn't get a top twenty listing, but it does get the team consistently in the top twenty.

exclusivelee
11-13-2013, 09:46 AM
RecruitingNation Class Rankings (http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/classrankings/_/class/2014/date/20131112http://)
Going any further will need an Insider password. Any new information on GU from anyone with an Insider account?

SWZag

Here's what ESPN says about Gonzaga's 2014 recruting:



37. Gonzaga Bulldogs

Inside the Gonzaga Bulldogs' Class

Who they have: The Zags are one of the more consistent recruiting powers out west and this year is no exception. In the early going, they snagged one of the elite point guards in the country in Josh Perkins (Huntington, W.Va./Huntington Prep), who will form a lethal trio of guards next season with current starters Kevin Pangos and Gary Bell. To build depth, the Zags also received commitments from athletic scoring guard in Silas Melson (Portland, Ore./Jefferson) and polished combo guard Bryan Alberts (Sun Valley, Calif./Village Christian).

Who they want: Although the Zags lost out on Reid Travis (Minneapolis/De La Salle), the focus is now on one of the hottest new prospects in the west in 6-foot-8 Cameron Oliver (Sacramento, Calif./Grant). They also have a list of 2015 prospects in Chimezie Metu (Lawndale, Calif./Lawndale), Jimbo Lull (Rolling Hills, Calif./Rolling Hills Prep) and Brodricks Jones (Lawndale, Calif./Lawndale).

TravelinZag
11-13-2013, 10:03 AM
First, perspective -- the acquisitions (including KW) eligible for 2014 are pretty damn good, with one slot open. More later.

Still, by the time its over, a few more (Kansas, Duke, etc.) will jump GU. Aspiring to top 15 program with maybe top 40 recruiting is a tough way to go. Looking at the schools above us, most are not a mystery. But Providence, LSU, Utah, USC, Tenn, Alabama, Northwestern, SDSU and Southern (that one recruit must have been great) have not had programs with success comparable to GU in recent years. Didn't include Seton Hall and UNLV because the answers are as obvious as they are odious. Just don't get being out-hustled by this group. Not all garden spot locations or top academics either? What's missing?

GU is not interested in OADs; bravo! Except, could use a big graduate w/ 1-year left for next year. Even if a Moser doesn't appear, and even if we get some spring chicken, hope a slot will open up for at least a big banger who will spell our front line, get 5+ points & 5+ boards a games, draw 7 seven fouls and administer some bruises before fouling out. JMHO

GoZags
11-13-2013, 10:16 AM
First, perspective -- the acquisitions (including KW) eligible for 2014 are pretty damn good, with one slot open. More later.

Still, by the time its over, a few more (Kansas, Duke, etc.) will jump GU. Aspiring to top 15 program with maybe top 40 recruiting is a tough way to go. Looking at the schools above us, most are not a mystery. But Providence, LSU, Utah, USC, Tenn, Alabama, Northwestern, SDSU and Southern (that one recruit must have been great) have not had programs with success comparable to GU in recent years. Didn't include Seton Hall and UNLV because the answers are as obvious as they are odious. Just don't get being out-hustled by this group. Not all garden spot locations or top academics either? What's missing?

GU is not interested in OADs; bravo! Except, could use a big graduate w/ 1-year left for next year. Even if a Moser doesn't appear, and even if we get some spring chicken, hope a slot will open up for at least a big banger who will spell our front line, get 5+ points & 5+ boards a games, draw 7 seven fouls and administer some bruises before fouling out. JMHO

What's missing is that Mark Few, Tommy Lloyd, Brian Michaelson and Donnie Daniels don't use Internet sites to rank their players. They don't use Internet sites as recruiting information tools. They don't care what these sites say. They know what they are looking for, and they do a great job of finding kids for Gonzaga's Men's Basketball program. YOU may not see it, but the GU staff isn't getting "out hustled". There WAS a time a couple of years ago when Mark Few delegated a bit to much to Ray, Leon and Tommy .... but no longer. They are all in.

That being said, Gonzaga has NEVER had a Top 25 recruiting class per Scout.com (and they've had 1 per Rivals.com) yet they've been to the dance 15 straight years and achieved a #1 ranking last season.

Are they perfect? No. Has Gonzaga peaked? No. Is there more to be done? Yes. Am I proud to be a Gonzaga grad and am I proud to support their Men's Basketball program regardless of where they fit on some ranking service? Yes.

DixieZag
11-13-2013, 10:58 AM
What's missing is that Mark Few, Tommy Lloyd, Brian Michaelson and Donnie Daniels don't use Internet sites to rank their players. They don't use Internet sites as recruiting information tools. They don't care what these sites say. They know what they are looking for, and they do a great job of finding kids for Gonzaga's Men's Basketball program. YOU may not see it, but the GU staff isn't getting "out hustled". There WAS a time a couple of years ago when Mark Few delegated a bit to much to Ray, Leon and Tommy .... but no longer. They are all in.

That being said, Gonzaga has NEVER had a Top 25 recruiting class per Scout.com (and they've had 1 per Rivals.com) yet they've been to the dance 15 straight years and achieved a #1 ranking last seas

Are they perfect? No. Has Gonzaga peaked? No. Is there more to be done? Yes. Am I proud to be a Gonzaga grad and am I proud to support their Men's Basketball program regardless of where they fit on some ranking service? Yes.

Yeah, the "outhustled" is really a poor way to put it b/c who "outhustled" us out to western Montana to recruit Edwards - who, though lightly recruited, is already being seen as far more talented than most of us ever imagined at the early a point.

"Outhustled" means that someone else got some players that the services rated higher, not necessarily the ones the staff wanted most.

kitzbuel
11-13-2013, 11:07 AM
I want guys with these names! Chimezie Metu, Jimbo Lull and Brodricks Jones

We would be well on our way to the all name team.

Don't forget Chance Comanche.

TravelinZag
11-13-2013, 12:20 PM
Okay, perhaps a poor choice of words, and I did not mean to disparage the staff; note the opening of my post. But there is no disputing that the group of schools I mentioned are not in GU's class as basketball programs, as academic institutions, or (with a couple of exceptions) as ideal locations. Is your point is that you wouldn't want any of the "over-rated by the services" players who committed to these these schools, and that the Mosers, Popes, et al. that GU appeared to pursue were really not wanted by the coaches? I agree it is a waste of time to chase top ten OAD players; they only want a showcase way station until the NBA. Sadly, many of these players will not amount to much once their brief professional athletic careers are concluded. GoZags, you seem to imply that having a top 25 recruiting year would damage GU's program. I apologize if I misread you. I disagree if that was your implication.

DixieZag
11-13-2013, 12:27 PM
Don't forget Chance Comanche.

I can hear the radio play by play now for the hall of fame name team:

"Chance Comanchie brings the ball up farside, Comanchie passes over to Metu. Chimeizie Metu dribbling up top, now looking for Jimbo, Metu down to Jimbo Lull one dribble, pump fake dishes to Brodericks "Basketball" Jones for the Jam, Zags by thirty over an overwhelmed University Kentucky team. . . "

I seriously doubt another team would even show up.

TravelinZag
11-13-2013, 01:05 PM
Kitzbuel, Dixie, I'd love it. But I'll believe it when I see it; let my hopes rise too often in recent years. That's what's going to be fun about this year's team -- they'll likely hurdle all expectations!

GoZags
11-13-2013, 01:10 PM
Okay, perhaps a poor choice of words, and I did not mean to disparage the staff; note the opening of my post. But there is no disputing that the group of schools I mentioned are not in GU's class as basketball programs, as academic institutions, or (with a couple of exceptions) as ideal locations. Is your point is that you wouldn't want any of the "over-rated by the services" players who committed to these these schools, and that the Mosers, Popes, et al. that GU appeared to pursue were really not wanted by the coaches? I agree it is a waste of time to chase top ten OAD players; they only want a showcase way station until the NBA. Sadly, many of these players will not amount to much once their brief professional athletic careers are concluded. GoZags, you seem to imply that having a top 25 recruiting year would damage GU's program. I apologize if I misread you. I disagree if that was your implication.

You've completely misread (or misinterpreted) my point. Stating (accurately) that GU has done well despite never having a Scout.com Top 25 class doesn't mean HAVING a Top 25 class would damage the program. Not sure where you came up with that because that's not what I was trying to communicate nor was it what I said. You've addressed your "outhustled" statement .... so I'm done with that. I'm not sure why you're interjecting Moser with this topic .... he was a prospective transfer and wouldn't have impacted the "list" of "recruits" that this thread discusses. You also mentioned Pope by name .... GU dropped him. Was that an ill advised move? Time will tell.

The other point I'd tried to make earlier on this thread was ... why no Wiltjer? -- the only way I can say it is if there were a ranking the day of the NFL Draft .... and the list was published, listing the Seahawks drafted that day .... would it make sense to say "They overlooked Percy Harvin" ..... no .... they wouldn't have overlooked Percy Harvin ..... or anybody else new to the team via Free Agency or Trade. The list was the NFL Draft .... just like THIS list was college basketball "recruits".

titopoet
11-13-2013, 01:34 PM
In most of Few years, Arkansas, Minnesota, NC State and many other have all consistently gotten better recruiting classes, and yet GU consistently out performs them. The recruiting services only goes so far and can give fans info, but coaches have to weigh other factors that we fans are not privy to like how they player plays with the current players (when he visits) How he fits into the system. GU gets a large amount of non-Americans, so the information is less public, but looking at those gems (many that went to the NBA like Ronny, Sacre, KO, E Harris, ) they scouting sites either under reported them or not at all. Clearly, the 2009 class was top ten class when the results came in. The question should be not why GU doesn't get 25 recruiting classes, but what is wrong that the recruiting sites that they so often miss by underestimating GU's talent. I remember when Pangos signed, the was no rating on him and then, poof, he became a 4 star recruit after he signed. Clearly if GU was so bad a recruiting, then how could the be consistent top 20 team.

DixieZag
11-13-2013, 02:12 PM
I think we should simply go by cool names from now on.

I don't care if the Comanchi-Metu-Jimbo-BB Jones line can play a lick, it would just be too cool.

maynard g krebs
11-13-2013, 03:11 PM
Aspiring to top 15 program with maybe top 40 recruiting is a tough way to go. Looking at the schools above us, most are not a mystery. But Providence, LSU, Utah, USC, Tenn, Alabama, Northwestern, SDSU and Southern (that one recruit must have been great) have not had programs with success comparable to GU in recent years. Didn't include Seton Hall and UNLV because the answers are as obvious as they are odious. Just don't get being out-hustled by this group. Not all garden spot locations or top academics either? What's missing?


First, obviously, Wiltjer will join the active roster with this group. If he was included, it jumps to prob top 20.

Second SMU (which is not Southern) signed Emmanuel Mudiay, 1 pg recruit. Apparently he thought it was a good idea to be coached by Larry Brown, perhaps the game's best teacher.

Third, every program above 37 except BYU has a better conference affiliation than GU. If anything is "missing" it's a better conference affiliation, made virtually impossible by geography and lack of football. The WCC is a killer for most elite recruits. It seems obvious that HS gyms and 150-200 rpi oppts in the height of the season are a turnoff for a lot of top players.

GU has to be selective, going for foreigners and US kids who fit the system and like GU's style enough that it overcomes the handicap that is the WCC. Given the landscape of college bb, I think the level of recruiting is pretty remarkable.

Goshzagit
11-13-2013, 03:16 PM
BYU holding strong back-to-back Top 25 ranked recruiting class.

I count 5, yes 5 4-star prospects committed in the last 2 years alone.

Impressive, and props to them.

I believe they were close to a Top-10 class last season.

ZagaZags
11-13-2013, 03:34 PM
Why would they include Wiltjer? These class rankings are about recruits who will sign their Letter of Intents. If there was a chart about transfers from another school and Kyle Wiltjer was missing, you'd have a point.

I look at the recruiting class for next season this way, all players that will be able to play for GU next season. Wiltjer is in limbo (redshirt) this season. Next season Gonzaga will be able to put Perkins, Melson, Alberts and Wiljer on the court. THAT is an impressive class. Wiltjer has 2 years to play for GU. Just like a JC transfer would have.

Zagaholic
11-13-2013, 05:57 PM
All I can say is, I am glad there is an "ignore poster" option on this message board.

Like others said above, (1) any such tabulation that ignores foreigners (and all of them do) is pretty meaningless, and (2) it is very difficult to evaluate high school players and project them to their college years. Way too many variables.

zag67
11-13-2013, 07:29 PM
I think that next years recruiting class is super. Also when you look back I think people should look at our players when they leave versus what recruiters projected when in high school. First we do bring in super players from outside the US and these players are hard to project. But our coaches have done a great job in finding talent. This has really helped, but most players that come here want to compete at a high level and most want to play at the next level (either in Europe or here). Now many of these players have a flaw and our staff has been doing a fantastic job of improving these players and helping them get ready for the next level.

Merging talent and personalities to create a good chemistry is a talent that I think the GU coaches have shown they can do. Also look at our assistants that have become head coaches and are improving their teams. So I guess I am one that does not try and over analyze the top recruiting teams. Because normally these teams have many of the one and done players. I would rather have players graduate or at least spend two or three years so that we can get to know them as people as well as players. Look at players like Ronnie, KO, Sacre and how they looked in year one versus when they graduated. This shows the type of players we get and what hard work and coaching can do.

BurgessEraZag
11-13-2013, 08:03 PM
Highly rated recruiting classes are just that ---- too highly rated.
Did anyone watch Kentucky's No. 1 recruiting class get taken to the cleaners by Izzo's Michigan State? I'll take recruits who fit into the school's program before a 4 or 5 star recruit. Wiltger I would guess reqrets his recruitment to Kentucky. Had he been her last year---what a team. Not saying I would reject a 4 or 5 star but they have to "fit" with the team.

DixieZag
11-13-2013, 08:59 PM
Highly rated recruiting classes are just that ---- too highly rated.
Did anyone watch Kentucky's No. 1 recruiting class get taken to the cleaners by Izzo's Michigan State? I'll take recruits who fit into the school's program before a 4 or 5 star recruit. Wiltger I would guess reqrets his recruitment to Kentucky. Had he been her last year---what a team. Not saying I would reject a 4 or 5 star but they have to "fit" with the team.

Welcome to the Board!!!

And great first post. Keep coming back!

ZagaZags
11-13-2013, 09:47 PM
Michael Cage and I are long time friends. He told me today he was going to go watch his alma mater play Arizona tomorrow. Mike played with Eddy Gordon at SDSU. I asked if Eddy was going to the game and he said "yes". Ed Gordon is the father of Drew Gordon ( New Mexico ) and Aaron Gordon ( Arizona ). I would have gone too but I leave for Yosemite tomorrow. I think we will try to make the LMU vs Gonzaga game in January, GU vs USD game in February or the SDSU vs USD game in December. He told me that Donny Daniels is the one recruiting his son from Gonzaga and Brian (Dutch) Dutcher from SDSU. Steve Fisher has known Mike's son ( MJ Cage ) since he was 5.
Mike has sent me a ton of video of MJ playing hoops. I would love to see MJ as a Zag in 2016.
SDSU recruiting in 2014. http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/ncbrecruiting/on-the-trail/post/_/id/7323/aztecs-lock-down-no-10-class

SWZag
11-13-2013, 10:00 PM
Highly rated recruiting classes are just that ---- too highly rated.
Did anyone watch Kentucky's No. 1 recruiting class get taken to the cleaners by Izzo's Michigan State? I'll take recruits who fit into the school's program before a 4 or 5 star recruit. Wiltger I would guess reqrets his recruitment to Kentucky. Had he been her last year---what a team. Not saying I would reject a 4 or 5 star but they have to "fit" with the team.

Exactly, there's far more to recruiting than stars. Team cohesion is far more important and I would much rather support and watch a team that gets along, has fun and are friends than a bunch of extremely talented individuals who have personal problems. Nothing is more distracting to a team than personal issues.

Great first post, BEZ, and welcome.

SWZag

SWZag
11-13-2013, 10:31 PM
I can hear the radio play by play now for the hall of fame name team:

"Chance Comanchie brings the ball up farside, Comanchie passes over to Metu. Chimeizie Metu dribbling up top, now looking for Jimbo, Metu down to Jimbo Lull one dribble, pump fake dishes to Brodericks "Basketball" Jones for the Jam, Zags by thirty over an overwhelmed University Kentucky team. . . "

I seriously doubt another team would even show up.

Any plans for a radio announcing future? :)

Great names indeed.

SWZag

SageOfZagville
11-13-2013, 11:06 PM
I heard the BYU had a good class coming in, and I found this article.
I watched them the other night against Stanford, and like other posters, think they will be tough this year. They have three 6'6'' type guards that can shoot. Carlino still plays out of control, but they looked good otherwise. They should be good competition for years to come.

http://www.heraldextra.com/sports/college/byu/basketball/men/dastrup-s-change-of-heart-a-coup-for-byu-hoops/article_8c096328-4c9e-11e3-810c-001a4bcf887a.html

thespywhozaggedme
11-13-2013, 11:08 PM
Dante Exum is top five and he's Australian playing high school ball at AIS in Australia
All I can say is, I am glad there is an "ignore poster" option on this message board.

Like others said above, (1) any such tabulation that ignores foreigners (and all of them do) is pretty meaningless, and (2) it is very difficult to evaluate high school players and project them to their college years. Way too many variables.

WallaWallaZag
11-14-2013, 08:25 AM
Dante Exum is top five and he's Australian playing high school ball at AIS in Australia

they had andrew wiggins when he was still in canada as well, but unless the prospects are nba ready / top 10 level material or similar then internationals are basically ignored. a lot of those recruiting sites have pretty limited budgets...they exist to leech money from bcs team fans...

edited to add: ...and well, to provide angst for certain fans of teams like the zags...