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ZagaZags
10-16-2013, 04:35 PM
Top 30 combo and point guards 2014.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24092214/college-basketball-preview-top-30-point-and-combo-guards

ZagsGoZags
10-16-2013, 09:42 PM
Ireland and Pangos do not surprise me
no Tyler Haws does surprise me

ZagaZags
10-16-2013, 09:45 PM
Ireland and Pangos do not surprise me
no Tyler Haws does surprise me

Feels like Ireland has been around forever.

bostoncollegezagfan
10-16-2013, 10:00 PM
I can't really take this list seriously when Olivier Hanlan isn't on it. May not be a household name, but the fact that the ACC Rookie of the Year, scoring 15.4ppg with 4.2rpg and 2.3apg isn't even in the top 30 is quite a surprise.

In more positive news, I think Pangos is ranked perfectly.

I also think it is an absolute snub for Haws not to be on the list.

exclusivelee
10-16-2013, 10:16 PM
Check back to see when CBS Sports releases a list of top 30 wings before you make accusations of someone being snubbed

Tyler Haws is a wing

WallaWallaZag
10-16-2013, 11:18 PM
it's possible that they view haws as more of a wing than combo guard...he doesn't really handle the ball all that much and he's got enough size to be a wing.

ZagsGoZags
10-17-2013, 03:41 AM
on the BYU roster he is a Guard
and when you google him, he is a guard on nearly all articles

I agree at 6'5" he could be viewed as a wing, just as Kyle D. can be.

I will be interested to see if CBS considers him a 2 or a 3

SteelCityZag
10-17-2013, 06:50 AM
Feels like Ireland has been around forever.

Ireland is good, but I'd take Bell in a hot second over him.

VinnyZag
10-17-2013, 07:48 AM
Carlino is the BYU point guard. Haws plays off the ball, so he's a wing. I'd be stunned if Haws doesn't appear on the list of wings -- maybe even top 15 in that list. Same deal with Bell, he's a wing.

exclusivelee
10-17-2013, 03:34 PM
For all those whining about Tyler Haws and Olivier Hanlan being snubbed, they were listed in the category of top 30 wings:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24097453/college-basketball-preview-top-30-wings

Tyler Haws at #15 and Olivier Hanlan at #24... FWIW, they were CBS Sports ranked Tyler Haws at #34 and Olivier Hanlan at #54 on their top 100 players in 2013-14

SteelCityZag
10-17-2013, 05:09 PM
Carlino is the BYU point guard. Haws plays off the ball, so he's a wing. I'd be stunned if Haws doesn't appear on the list of wings -- maybe even top 15 in that list. Same deal with Bell, he's a wing.

I guess I disagree. Bell shoots from the outside and handles the ball consistently, which makes him a combo guard, or a (2) near as I can tell. As I said, Ireland is a talented scorer, but he's a score first point who doesn't really make his teammates around him better. Bell actually has a better assist-to-turnover ratio than Ireland. On defense, it's GBJ in a landslide.

maynard g krebs
10-17-2013, 05:20 PM
I guess I disagree. Bell shoots from the outside and handles the ball consistently, which makes him a combo guard, or a (2) near as I can tell. As I said, Ireland is a talented scorer, but he's a score first point who doesn't really make his teammates around him better. Bell actually has a better assist-to-turnover ratio than Ireland. On defense, it's GBJ in a landslide.

+1. Bell is a cg who plays the 2. And if I'm choosing sides in a pickup game, I take Bell over Ireland in a heartbeat. And not because I'm a homer. Because he does things that win.

And the most egregious omission of a pg is Oregon's Dominic Artis imo. 23-5 with him, including the blowouts of Ok St and St Louis in the NCAA's and 5-4 with him out.

ZagsGoZags
10-17-2013, 05:36 PM
Well thanks for the info.
I always, perhaps mistakenly, thought a wing was mostly a 3, not a 2. I am just asking because I want to learn ....
Can the guard that is not the primary Point Guard, be called anything but a shooting guard? When Pangos is in, and Stockton too (when Bell is sitting out) is David a 2? Not a wing? Not a shooting guard?
What is a wing? A 3 and a shooting guard?
Was mike hart a wing?

exclusivelee
10-17-2013, 06:44 PM
Well thanks for the info.
I always, perhaps mistakenly, thought a wing was mostly a 3, not a 2. I am just asking because I want to learn ....
Can the guard that is not the primary Point Guard, be called anything but a shooting guard? When Pangos is in, and Stockton too (when Bell is sitting out) is David a 2? Not a wing? Not a shooting guard?
What is a wing? A 3 and a shooting guard?
Was mike hart a wing?

A wing is a player who can play both the shooting guard and small forward positions

and yeah, Mike Hart is a wing

Radbooks
10-17-2013, 07:58 PM
Here is what the guys at CBS used as their criteria when they came up with these lists:


I imagine you've already seen our list of CBSSports.com's Top 100 College Basketball Players, and now we're going to break the sport's best down by positions.

But not five positions.

Truth is, these days, too many schools play too many non-traditional lineups, and too many players play multiple positions and are kind of interchangeable. So what we've decided to do, to the best of our abilities, is separate players into three categories, and those three categories are as follows:

1. Points and Combos
2. Wings
3. Bigs

In other words, if a player will be asked to handle the ball to some degree for his team this season, for our purposes, he's a point or combo. And if a player does most of his work around the basket, for our purposes, he's a big. And pretty much everybody else is going in the middle category.

Will we all agree on these categories for these players?

Nope.

The three of us who decided on these categories -- me, Jeff Borzello and Matt Norlander -- didn't even all agree. Reasonable minds can disagree. And unreasonable minds can certainly disagree. So if you want to argue about the groupings, I guess you can. But we'd rather you argue about the lists themselves, and we know you will.
Have at it ...

bostoncollegezagfan
10-17-2013, 09:08 PM
My bad for complaining. Hanlan takes the ball up 50% of the time so interesting that he is a wing.

ZagaZags
10-17-2013, 09:33 PM
My bad for complaining. Hanlan takes the ball up 50% of the time so interesting that he is a wing.

BCZagfan you are fine. Some on this board are wound up tighter than a golf ball. ( Yes, I can be too. ) Feel free to visit again.

PS, Don't post after 12:30 am. The curfew police will be on your a$$.

ZagsGoZags
10-18-2013, 03:11 AM
Thanks exclusiveLee, zagagzags and others
I learn a lot about basketball on this board and am glad for it

would a tweener between 2 and 3 be a player who probably cannot master either spot
but a wing would be a player that can master both the shooting guard (2) and small forward (3) position?

ZagaZags
10-18-2013, 01:55 PM
Thanks exclusiveLee, zagagzags and others
I learn a lot about basketball on this board and am glad for it

would a tweener between 2 and 3 be a player who probably cannot master either spot
but a wing would be a player that can master both the shooting guard (2) and small forward (3) position?

A wing is a player who can play both SF and SG. In most cases you would like to have your small forward be the most athletic guy on the court with some height. ( 6-7+) The small forward also should be a guy who can nail the 3. Unfortunately these type of players go to factory schools. ( Or SDSU )

ZagsGoZags
10-18-2013, 02:01 PM
ah, that's great
thanks

WallaWallaZag
10-21-2013, 09:32 AM
Thanks exclusiveLee, zagagzags and others
I learn a lot about basketball on this board and am glad for it

would a tweener between 2 and 3 be a player who probably cannot master either spot
but a wing would be a player that can master both the shooting guard (2) and small forward (3) position?

a "tweener" in basketball parlance usually refers to a player stuck between a 3 small forward and a 4 power forward. it's also most often used to refer to college power forwards who are talented but are perceived to not quite have the size to play the 4 at the next level or the mobility, handles, or outside shooting touch to play the 3 (which is why elias harris has been labeled a tweener)...sometimes also referred to as hybrid 3/4's and sometimes as a "stretch" 4 if the player is tall but perimeter oriented.

scott257
10-21-2013, 10:45 AM
Guards, forwards, and center always seemed descriptive enough to me, but I am old. Adding descriptions to the position (point guard, power forward) also seemed to work fine. Splitting hairs by developing new position descriptions (tweener, stretch, or goofball), seems a bit more than is necessary to understanding the game. I keep hearing Memphis is going to use a four guard line-up this year, how are the descriptors that have been discussed going to help define who is what in that situation?

#1bulldogfan
10-21-2013, 03:47 PM
Everyone except the true point guard would be A TWEENER. It is called the tweener offense.

#1bulldogfan
10-21-2013, 03:50 PM
A 3 guard lineup, like Few will run at times this year is called a mini-tweener!!!

sittingon50
10-22-2013, 02:52 PM
More reading.

http://collegechalktalk.com/2013/10/17/wcc-cheat-sheet/