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View Full Version : How can Zags recruiting be improved?



TravelinZag
10-09-2013, 09:33 PM
Attracting interest from some excellent prospects: Thanks, Josh Perkins and still hope you'll join us, Reid Travis.

Staff scours the world for prospects, plus JUCOs, transfers, nooks & crannies, etc.

Without quixotic efforts for top ten ranked players, GU has competed for excellent talent against schools with elite programs.

Continue to sign NW players: Bell, Stockton, Draginis, Edwards, Meikle, even, circuitously, Wiltjer.

Losing players to Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, Kansas, North Carolina, etc. is not a problem; makes the occasional win sweeter.

But, losing to lesser programs repeatedly should be unacceptible: SDSU, Oregon, Missouri, UNLV, Colorado, Utah, etc., etc.

Moser, Davis, Benjamin; McLaughlin, Bailey, Chatman, Pope, Wright, Kell, the list goes on, and on.

Not looking for rants or finger-pointing, but positive suggestions. Anybody got anything?

One thing is clear -- don't want to hear about how a #1 rating, or 15 straight trips to the dance, or Kelly's magnificent accomplishments will boost GU recruiting. They haven't. What will?

northsidezagfan
10-09-2013, 09:37 PM
Success in the NCAA tourney.

kitzbuel
10-09-2013, 09:42 PM
:confused:
I am confused. You have one thread started stating that the Class of '14 might be one of the top recruiting classes for GU, but this thread implies GU recruiting is not improving.

ZagaZags
10-09-2013, 09:43 PM
The Zags may have an ace in the hole. 2014 will be huge.

TravelinZag
10-09-2013, 10:06 PM
:confused:
I am confused. You have one thread started stating that the Class of '14 might be one of the top recruiting classes for GU, but this thread implies GU recruiting is not improving.

Please look again. I ASKED contributors to the forum if they thought the '14 class was one of the top recruiting classes for GU. They did not, finding it merely "good," and several other classes better. As is often the case, the answers were better than the question.

Oregonzagnut
10-09-2013, 10:34 PM
Everything can always improve, but we are at the top of our recruiting as of this year. at least IMO.

Like Northsidezag said: Win in the tourney.

sittingon50
10-09-2013, 10:53 PM
Cars, cash & cuties.

It works for a couple of programs.

maynard g krebs
10-09-2013, 11:00 PM
But, losing to lesser programs repeatedly should be unacceptible: SDSU, Oregon, Missouri, UNLV, Colorado, Utah, etc., etc.




A few NCAA tourney facts:

Utah- 27 apps, 1 NC, 2 ff's, 2 e 8's, 4 s 16's, 35 wins
UNLV- 19 apps, 1 NC, 3 FF's, 1 E8, 4 S16's, 33 wins
Missouri- 25 apps, 3 elite 8's, 3 sweet 16's, 22 wins
Oregon- 10 apps, 1 NC, 3 e 8's, 12 wins
GU- 15 apps, 1 e 8, 4 s 16's, 17 wins

Of course it's a different story if you look at the last 15 years. But players choose different schools for a host of reasons, and it's, frankly, kind of ridiculous to say Gonzaga shouldn't lose players to the above schools, all of whom have the advantages of better conference affiliation, bigtime arenas, etc., which are a very big deal to many players and a disadvantage for the Zags.

I consider it pretty amazing that they are recruiting on the level they are. So would Dan Fitzgerald, who told his young assistants it couldn't be done.

As to a positive suggestion- consider becoming a glass half full kind of person, or as I see it, a glass closer to being full than I ever could have imagined when I started following the Zags in December of '97.

ZagaZags
10-09-2013, 11:18 PM
GU has it all taken care of.

Reborn
10-09-2013, 11:32 PM
Keep Adam Morrison on the staff. Just thought I'd put my two cents in. Have to include making it to a Final 4 and winning a national championship would help. but I want to see Mark Few and staff do it their way. Which I feel they are doing. Keep up the great work and effort staff. " The Best is yet to come!!!

Go Zags!!!

ZagaZags
10-09-2013, 11:41 PM
Sabonis and Travis would help.

jazzdelmar
10-10-2013, 03:47 AM
The knee jerk reaction is winning in the Dance but SDSU, which is eating our recruiting lunch, has fared no better than the Zags in recent years and long term cant hold a tiki torch to GU in terms of the NCs......plus while they play in a superior league their OOC is painfully weak (riddled with D3s and NAIAs) vs the Zags (well, until this year)....as well, their NBA track record is Kawhi, a great one, but far down the Del Mar track from the Zags.

So whats up? As was said, losing RT to Dook is almost a compliment. Losing top kids to the likes of SDSU, et al. is an embarrassment and my dear ZZ you cannot spin that into gossamer.

Hence, the surest change factor, imo, wd be moving to a much better conference; the wistful period last year about a Big East-West comes to mind. But no way that happens so recruiting stays the same: the occasional Perkins and a whole lot of Melsons.

bartruff1
10-10-2013, 05:01 AM
Cars, cash & cuties.

It works for a couple of programs.

Drugs, Sex and Rock and Roll... Boys are like ravens, they are attracted to shiny things.

TravelinZag
10-10-2013, 06:28 AM
Maynard G offers lessons in philosophy and history! Zags BB glass is way more than half-full; like you and most fans, I'd like more: a few sweet sixteens and elite eights, a couple of final fours, maybe even a national championship. Its happened for other small schools, and, hey, look what Duke has done with an enrollment not much larger than GU.

Yes, the last 15 years have been a "different story," and a great story for the Zags. USF and Seattle U were once great BB programs; Syracuse and Army were football powers. Immaculata once won three women's BB national championships. Those things will likely recur when (beg your pardon) Bob Denver is resurrected!

Zagdawg
10-10-2013, 06:33 AM
Some fans are fans for a reason -- and the Gonzaga coaching staff coaches for a reason-- we are not privy to what is going on in the background.

Some fans will spin this as the end of the world and the Gonzaga downturn that some have been waiting for-- tired of "Few padding his record with easy wins".

I am in the camp that everything happens for a reason and trust the guys running the program will be able to identify who they need based upon what is already here and what is occuring with the team.

We will just need to wait and see what happens.


Go Zags

vandalzag
10-10-2013, 06:54 AM
Does not translate into success. It is what you do with the players once they are there. Instead of writing off this year as a down recruiting year (only Jazz has the all knowing crystal ball) why don't we let the season play out and see what happens.
For the most part successful recruiting is a multi-year process. Where GU has been successful it has been identifying early and building a relationship the player. Last years success will affect recruiting next year and the year after. Losing the players to UNLV,OR, SDSU is tough but not the end of the world that people make out to be. They day somebody figures out the decision making process of an 18-22 year old they should write a book and win the Nobel Prize.
Now if the kids were going to St Mary's and USF then it wold be time to bring the black cloud of doom that Jazz loves to offer GU fans (I really like how Jazz has already placed Reid Travis on the Duke roster...somebody tell the staff that captain happy has predicted the future again and they need to focus elswhere).
.
That being said Few will not be in on every recruit. He does not play the AAU game. Losing kids to teams that are or have been dirty in the past is not something to lose sleep over. As Norman Dale said " I would hope you would support who we are. Not, who we are not. " Life is too short lets enjoy the season.

CDC84
10-10-2013, 07:50 AM
It's wrong to assume that GU really wanted ALL these kids and that they are losing them to other schools (especially inferior programs). As Tommy Lloyd has said repeatedly, people outside the program really don't know what's going on with recruiting much of the time.

This is what we know: Gonzaga really wanted Josh Davis and Mike Moser. They got beat on both. They really wanted Josh Perkins (they got him), and they really want Reid Travis. As for everyone else who has supposedly "rejected" Gonzaga this offseason, I'm not sure if Gonzaga truly wanted these players in the end, even if they visited the campus. Sometimes kids visit campus, play with the existing players, and it's determined that they aren't good enough and/or don't fit, even though the internet says GU offered them a scholarship and all that.

SWZag
10-10-2013, 11:59 PM
I may be a minority here, but I'm not sure there is anything wrong with the Zags' recruiting.

SWZag

bartruff1
10-11-2013, 05:08 AM
I may be a minority here, but I'm not sure there is anything wrong with the Zags' recruiting.

SWZag

That makes two of us.

cjm720
10-11-2013, 05:59 AM
Attracting interest from some excellent prospects: Thanks, Josh Perkins and still hope you'll join us, Reid Travis.

Staff scours the world for prospects, plus JUCOs, transfers, nooks & crannies, etc.

Without quixotic efforts for top ten ranked players, GU has competed for excellent talent against schools with elite programs.

Continue to sign NW players: Bell, Stockton, Draginis, Edwards, Meikle, even, circuitously, Wiltjer.

Losing players to Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State, Kansas, North Carolina, etc. is not a problem; makes the occasional win sweeter.

But, losing to lesser programs repeatedly should be unacceptible: SDSU, Oregon, Missouri, UNLV, Colorado, Utah, etc., etc.

Moser, Davis, Benjamin; McLaughlin, Bailey, Chatman, Pope, Wright, Kell, the list goes on, and on.

Not looking for rants or finger-pointing, but positive suggestions. Anybody got anything?

One thing is clear -- don't want to hear about how a #1 rating, or 15 straight trips to the dance, or Kelly's magnificent accomplishments will boost GU recruiting. They haven't. What will?

What are you talking about? Your list includes success in recruiting stemming from success on the court. #trendingup

To answer the OP - it's been my view for a long time that the WCC drags us down for recruiting (and arguably doesn't prep us well enough for the tournament). The one thing in common for all the recruits we lost out on is that they are much larger schools in a non-christian conference.

SteelCityZag
10-11-2013, 07:02 AM
It's wrong to assume that GU really wanted ALL these kids and that they are losing them to other schools (especially inferior programs). As Tommy Lloyd has said repeatedly, people outside the program really don't know what's going on with recruiting much of the time.

This is what we know: Gonzaga really wanted Josh Davis and Mike Moser. They got beat on both. They really wanted Josh Perkins (they got him), and they really want Reid Travis. As for everyone else who has supposedly "rejected" Gonzaga this offseason, I'm not sure if Gonzaga truly wanted these players in the end, even if they visited the campus. Sometimes kids visit campus, play with the existing players, and it's determined that they aren't good enough and/or don't fit, even though the internet says GU offered them a scholarship and all that.

Have to agree with CDC, and the senitments echoed by others here. You can't win them all. There's not enough spots and we have to recruit for needed positions. In the end, we win some, we lose some, and some we have walked away from.

I think it's clear how much we wanted Moser and Josh Davis. We lost those battles. Maybe lost out on a few more.

We've won Perkins, Melson, Wiltjer, and hopefully a few more (Reid Travis and Sabonis sound good to me).

The others (Pope, Pickens, et all) well that's where the speculation of who walked away from whom begins. With these two specifically, there is evidence that we were the ones to cancel the visits. Question seems to be why? Not because they aren't any good. They are. But there seems to be something happening where the staff simply feels more secure with other players, be it because they already have folks at those positions, or they've secured euros who they feel are better.

Simply put, you don't walk away from players this good unless you have something you value a bit more.

northsidezagfan
10-11-2013, 07:03 AM
I may be a minority here, but I'm not sure there is anything wrong with the Zags' recruiting.

SWZag

I don't think there is anything wrong with it either, but I still think it can be improved. Some things like the weather, geographic isolation, and to a certain extent our conference we can't do anything about. But there are things on the court that can be improved on that will help land some of these top guys we miss on. We play a style that is very player-friendly so I know that isn't a problem. Just need it to translate into late-season success to rally bump us up to the next level.