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View Full Version : Can someone explain the Kentucky appeal?



zagssuperfan
06-19-2013, 02:37 PM
After watching Perkin's interview from last week where he said that he would keep Kentucky on his list, even if they dont offer, I was left confused. He said they would remain on his list because they put guys into the NBA, and that is his goal. There has to be something to it that I am missing. I just don't get the logic of kids like Perkins. Every year Cal takes kids that are already projected to go pro, and he "turns them into pros". But it seems to me that too much credit is given to Calipari. Its not like hes taking kids with no talent and turning them into pros. They are already the most talented players! He couldn't even make the tournament last year with arguably the most talented roster in the country. So why do kids like Perkins think they have a better shot with Calipari, when there are plenty of coaches and programs out there that turn non-nba caliber players into nba players(i.e Morrison and Olynyk.)?! Even the low level WCC teams could turn Calipari's players into pros. Thoughts?

bartruff1
06-19-2013, 02:58 PM
It could be that it is the most successful college basketball program of all time and the favorite to win the National Championship next year and probably every year that Cal is there....

Or it could be that Ashley goes to the home games and sits near the bench.

75Zag
06-19-2013, 03:00 PM
The reality is that for 99.99+% of college freshmen playing Basketball, Jesus Christ - as head coach - could not "get them ready" for the NBA, even with his Father's help. But dreams, like Bruce Willis, die hard. So every kid - and his hopeful parents and greedy AAU coach - search high and low for the perfect college coach with that special something who will get their kid to the League. Statistically Jim C's numbers look pretty good. You and I know that most of the reason for his success is that he started with the .001% of kids who have the skills to get to the League even if Bozo the Clown was their head coach, but that's not what people want to see. Jim C. takes "average kids", just like your kid, and turns them into Nerlens Noel. Yes he does.

PS - If you are going to hype Few or GU's ability to get kids to the League, I would drop the references to Morrison. I think they call that leading with your chin. I wish Morrison well, but he has become the poster child for talented NCAA kids who flop in the League. Here's hoping Olynyk will not be following in his footsteps.

Go Bulldogs!

CDC84
06-19-2013, 03:15 PM
He couldn't even make the tournament last year with arguably the most talented roster in the country.

If Noel doesn't go down with that injury, UK is a single digit seed in the dance. He was by far and away their best player and best NBA prospect. But their team wasn't the most talented team in the country even with him. No one on that team approached Kidd-Gilchrist or Anthony Davis. Not just in terms of talent, but leadership.

The biggest problem at UK last year was that they didn't have a point guard. I predicted right from the get go that Ryan Harrow wasn't up to Kentucky standards. In order to run that system, you need guys like Brandon Knight and the kid who will running the show this year, Andrew Harrison. The dribble drive system requires an elite point guard. Also, any team that collects the kind of talent UK gets needs an elite point guard to keep all the egos in check and to make sure guys get the ball in the right spots. But I guess Calipari had to take Harrow because there weren't any good spring prospects available.

229SintoZag
06-19-2013, 03:19 PM
I can explain the appeal of Kentucky:

Kentucky has 20 former players on NBA rosters this year. More than any other university.

Gonzaga has, what, two or three? (Daye and Sacre or Pargo, depending on who is active and who is sent to the D League or released).

Also--he has the chance to play with Kyle Wiltjer at Kentucky. He could never do that at Gonzaga now could he?

cjm720
06-19-2013, 03:21 PM
I can explain the appeal of Kentucky:

Kentucky has 20 former players on NBA rosters this year. More than any other university.

Gonzaga has, what, two or three? (Daye and Sacre or Pargo, depending on who is active and who is sent to the D League or released).

Aren't we still pretty high up on the list for kids in the NBA (suprisingly)?

jazzdelmar
06-19-2013, 03:38 PM
Iconography; see Yanks, Lakers, Crimson Tide, Cowboys, Blue Devils, Canadiens, et al.

mgadfly
06-19-2013, 03:52 PM
I can explain the appeal of Kentucky:

Kentucky has 20 former players on NBA rosters this year. More than any other university.

Gonzaga has, what, two or three? (Daye and Sacre or Pargo, depending on who is active and who is sent to the D League or released).

Also--he has the chance to play with Kyle Wiltjer at Kentucky. He could never do that at Gonzaga now could he?

The opening day numbers said GU had 5 which is pretty good. The UW had 8.

As for the appeal, I see it. If you are good enough to play for Kentucky you are usually a future pro. Getting the Grade-A Kentucky product stamped on your application to the league doesn't hurt.

Harvard may not actually educate kids better than [fill in the blank of good non-ivy group school], but there is something about being admitted to Harvard in the first place.

zagssuperfan
06-19-2013, 04:15 PM
PS - If you are going to hype Few or GU's ability to get kids to the League, I would drop the references to Morrison. I think they call that leading with your chin. I wish Morrison well, but he has become the poster child for talented NCAA kids who flop in the League. Here's hoping Olynyk will not be following in his footsteps.

Go Bulldogs!

Definitely not hyping Few. I'm sure it will come out eventually anyway, but I am not a Few fan. My point was that he has taken nobodies and put them into the NBA. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone that Calipari has done that with. No one really gave me what I was looking for. Obviously Calipari has a ton of good players, has put a ton of guys into the nba, and will continue to have a successful program, that doesn't help. What is it that makes kids think that he is special, other than sending players who are already elite into nba?

zagssuperfan
06-19-2013, 04:18 PM
Harvard may not actually educate kids better than [fill in the blank of good non-ivy group school], but there is something about being admitted to Harvard in the first place.

Invalid argument. Most of his players are projected as pro players before they even accept a KU offer. Take Wiggins for example. He was the projected #1 pick before he ever picked a school, and choosing Kansas didn't change that.

bartruff1
06-19-2013, 04:28 PM
They want to win a National Championship and get all the exposure that goes with it...

mgadfly
06-19-2013, 04:47 PM
Invalid argument. Most of his players are projected as pro players before they even accept a KU offer. Take Wiggins for example. He was the projected #1 pick before he ever picked a school, and choosing Kansas didn't change that.

Harvard kids are projected as smart even before they get admitted to a school.

I agree with what you are saying (other than the invalid argument).

There is validation in being accepted to Harvard.
There is validation in being offered by Kentucky.

But you are right, they start with the best so it is hard to tell if they actually educate/train anyone better than [fill in the blank].

maynard g krebs
06-19-2013, 05:05 PM
Sure, the players Cal recruits are almost all NBA prospects. What he has done is created a one (or 2) and done assembly line. He can sell it as a virtually sure thing now with all the draft success; whether or not he makes those kids better players or not is pretty much a moot point, though imo he does a pretty good job of getting them to play together and play on both ends.

thespywhozaggedme
06-19-2013, 06:06 PM
It could be that it is the most successful college basketball program of all time and the favorite to win the National Championship next year and probably every year that Cal is there....

Or it could be that Ashley goes to the home games and sits near the bench.

She's less relevant to recruits than Stockton, the same age as him and a heck of a lot crazier. AJ is a reason NOT to go to UK.

sittingon50
06-19-2013, 08:42 PM
Fast horses.

ZagaZags
06-19-2013, 09:35 PM
Have you seen the building the players live in? Might be the best in the NCAA. Not saying that is the reason but it is nice.

Birddog
06-20-2013, 04:30 AM
Fast horses.
Faster women!

bartruff1
06-20-2013, 04:32 AM
It appears it was a rhetorical question.

jazzdelmar
06-20-2013, 04:50 AM
UK is clearly the fastest and surest way to the NBA. Cal's track record, especially with guards, is irrefutable. And his kids go very high in the draft. Great players know other great players make them look even better. Wiggins to KU is kind of an upset, but Self's program isn't exactly chopped jayhawk. Yes, the question was likely rhetorical or even tongue in cheek. Good posts ensued, though.

SteelCityZag
06-20-2013, 05:48 AM
Harvard kids are projected as smart even before they get admitted to a school.

I agree with what you are saying (other than the invalid argument).

There is validation in being accepted to Harvard.
There is validation in being offered by Kentucky.

But you are right, they start with the best so it is hard to tell if they actually educate/train anyone better than [fill in the blank].

This is it, in a nutshell. Cal and a handful of others in college hoops are "first captain, first pick." What kid doesn't want to get picked first? Plus, there is the effect (of which I have no scientific evidence) that kids whose games are not quite being NBA ready might get drafted a bit higher because that validation. Again, this is pure conjecture on my part.

WallaWallaZag
06-20-2013, 06:44 AM
This is it, in a nutshell. Cal and a handful of others in college hoops are "first captain, first pick." What kid doesn't want to get picked first? Plus, there is the effect (of which I have no scientific evidence) that kids whose games are not quite being NBA ready might get drafted a bit higher because that validation. Again, this is pure conjecture on my part.

it shouldn't be conjecture on your part because you're right...but not necessarily because of the validation directly. a kid at kentucky is playing with incredible talent around him, so his weaknesses can stay hidden and he doesn't have to put up big numbers in order to keep his stock high with scouts. take mcadoo from unc...he was a projected top 5 pick before his freshman year and basically stayed that way because of his supposed potential that people didn't get to see because he was on a loaded upperclassmen heavy team...he stays and a year later and all the stars are gone and he is supposed to lead the team...unc and mcadoo struggle and now his stock is way down. the kids at kentucky are almost never faced with this because they are gone after one year and there are so many other all-americans that no one player is expected to carry the team.

Oregonzagnut
06-20-2013, 09:26 AM
IMO, Kentucky appeal is equal to the appeal of being a NY Yankee, a NE Patriot or a Dallas Cowboy. Or in the NCAA, equal to UNC, Indiana, UCLA or Duke. The rich get richer while they get better than everyone else, and they slowly get the best players.

Winning national championships and perpetually being in the tournament does that. That is why Gonzaga is getting closer to being the school people want to go to first. Not a 2nd choice.

I rest easy knowing that it is only about basketball. I don't know anyone who gets that exited about Kentucky football or about the academics there. Lots of band-wagon hype too. Winning does that and Gonzaga has its share of band-wagon jumpers.

The appeal isn't even Kentucky per se, but winning and getting rich in the NBA.

So that is the appeal, not Kentucky, but getting rich and famous.

Angelo Roncalli
06-20-2013, 09:29 AM
Ashley Judd?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsvleRQb-9S90y6mhqLVZu-hbfsYb8_SXILSciibQDVglecBv0

Malastein
06-20-2013, 11:24 AM
At this rate, Kentucky will have 40-50 players in the NBA in the next 5 years. Almost scary how successful Calipari is at recruiting the top kids, and in some ways the effort to get them there isn't all that much. Wiggins had his pick of the litter, and didn't want to be one of the pack. He choose a place he could be the man, and be close to his older brother.

cjm720
06-20-2013, 01:04 PM
The OP reminds me of a great quote I recently heard: if you have to ask, you will never understand the answer.

Robzagnut
06-21-2013, 09:21 AM
1. Kentucky players get drafted with lottery picks.
2. Coach Cal is one of the top coaches in the country,
3. Kentucky is the top program in the country.
4. You get to play with a national championship caliber team almost every year.
5. National exposure.
6. Rabid fans with a huge stadium.
7. No worries about academics.
8. Warm climate in the eastern time zone.
9. You get to watch SEC football, although Kentucky doesn’t ‘really’ play SEC football.
10. It takes a perfect storm to not go to the NCAA tournament.

If your dream is to play in the NBA, especially if you ‘think’ you’re a one-and-done player, your best choice by far is Kentucky.

Malastein
06-21-2013, 10:01 AM
The OP reminds me of a great quote I recently heard: if you have to ask, you will never understand the answer.

I told that to my mom in response to blowing fireballs(Facebook picture).

Angelo Roncalli
06-21-2013, 10:16 AM
Bottom line: Kentucky pays better.