PDA

View Full Version : About Oregon, Moser/Amardi and Gonzaga



CDC84
06-18-2013, 05:33 PM
Keep in mind folks that we are talking about a grad school transfer and a juco transfer who was released late in the process by ISU and only has one year of eligibility left. I don't really classify these guys as "recruits." They aren't kids that the coaching staff has spent 2-3 years cultivating relationships with. These are quick hitter decisions, and the two parties don't know each other too well. The decision making process and recruiting process with players like this is totally different than what takes place with high schoolers.

Now if Gonzaga starts losing high schoolers like Kendall Small (who has cited Gonzaga as being his dream school growing up) to the Ducks, then you might want to start making a big deal out of the situation. Right now it's a big nothing.

That being said, it is odd that Josh Davis, Mike Moser and Richard Amardi passed on Gonzaga despite the fact that there is obvious playing time available on a preseason top 20 team.

jazzdelmar
06-18-2013, 06:17 PM
Keep in mind folks that we are talking about a grad school transfer and a juco transfer who was released late in the process by ISU and only has one year of eligibility left. I don't really classify these guys as "recruits." They aren't kids that the coaching staff has spent 2-3 years cultivating relationships with. These are quick hitter decisions, and the two parties don't know each other too well. The decision making process and recruiting process with players like this is totally different than what takes place with high schoolers.

Now if Gonzaga starts losing high schoolers like Kendall Small (who has cited Gonzaga as being his dream school growing up) to the Ducks, then you might want to start making a big deal out of the situation. Right now it's a big nothing.

That being said, it is odd that Josh Davis, Mike Moser and Richard Amardi passed on Gonzaga despite the fact that there is obvious playing time available on a preseason top 20 team.

But don't all the programs chasing the transfer operate under the same constraints?

VinnyZag
06-18-2013, 06:23 PM
Obvious playing time but not obvious starting spots. At best, they'd have to compete against Dower and Karnowski. That could be a factor, imho.

CDC84
06-18-2013, 06:27 PM
But don't all the programs chasing the transfer operate under the same constraints?

Oregon and SDSU don't have the constraints that Gonzaga does when it comes to selling their program to grad school transfers who have to make quick decisions and who don't know the coaching staff and program very well. The Zags are less likely to have success with recruiting if they can't cultivate relationships with recruits over a protracted period of time. Otherwise they open themselves up to kids committing to other schools based on things other than basketball.


Obvious playing time but not obvious starting spots. At best, they'd have to compete against Dower and Karnowski. That could be a factor, imho.

Disagree. Davis and Moser would start over Dower, guaranteed. Both are flat out better players than him, and they have proven it at the college level.

jazzdelmar
06-18-2013, 06:31 PM
Oregon and SDSU don't have the constraints that Gonzaga does when it comes to selling their program to grad school transfers who have to make quick decisions and who don't know the coaching staff and program very well. The Zags are less likely to have success with recruiting if they can't cultivate relationships with recruits over a protracted period of time. Otherwise they open themselves up to kids committing to other schools based on things other than basketball.



Davis and Moser would start over Dower. Both are flat out better players than him, and they have proven it at the college level.



Are you alluding to gray area factors outside of hoops? Nike money. Etc?

HenneZag
06-18-2013, 06:34 PM
Im more concerned with the relationships being established on a short period of time. It seems that either we are not building the relationship nor is the recruit being sold when he steps foot on campus for a visit. How will this effect our future recruits as a whole? Now maybe the staff has other ideas or knows something we don't, what I see is us getting beat to the punch when we have a definite need to fill next season.

At this point we better be comfortable with the fact that we will be guard oriented next season, and also will be playing the big man Edwards when he clearly needs a RS year.

CDC84
06-18-2013, 06:41 PM
Are you alluding to gray area factors outside of hoops? Nike money. Etc?

Not gray area factors. Nothing shady. But yes, the incredible facilities that Oregon has, the sunny beaches that SDSU offers, whatever. Things that don't have much to do with basketball. Part of what Gonzaga has to do with its recruiting is convince kids that those sorts of things don't matter....that what matters is player development, winning and making the dance every year. It's not easy to do on short notice.

CDC84
06-18-2013, 06:56 PM
Im more concerned with the relationships being established on a short period of time. It seems that either we are not building the relationship nor is the recruit being sold when he steps foot on campus for a visit. How will this effect our future recruits as a whole? Now maybe the staff has other ideas or knows something we don't, what I see is us getting beat to the punch when we have a definite need to fill next season.

If the staff keeps developing players to the point where they bail early for the NBA like Olynyk did, grad school transfers and top level high schoolers who wait until the spring to sign are going to become more and more important in the recruiting process. The staff will have to adjust.

Then again, Kelly Olynyk is a special case. Coach Few really hasn't had to deal with a situation like this before. At least with Daye and Ammo he had some sort of clue that they wouldn't be at GU all four years. Kelly was coming off a redshirt year and had proven little at the college level. They could only prepare so much.

jazzdelmar
06-18-2013, 07:09 PM
If the staff keeps developing players to the point where they bail early for the NBA like Olynyk did, grad school transfers and top level high schoolers who wait until the spring to sign are going to become more and more important in the recruiting process. The staff will have to adjust.

Then again, Kelly Olynyk is a special case. Coach Few really hasn't had to deal with a situation like this before. At least with Daye and Ammo he had some sort of clue that they wouldn't be at GU all four years. Kelly was coming off a redshirt year and had proven little at the college level. They could only prepare so much.


Wasn't it clear from his performance as well as his February aside to the coach that KO was likely gone this year?

CDC84
06-18-2013, 07:19 PM
Wasn't it clear from his performance as well as his February aside to the coach that KO was likely gone this year?

By that time it was too late in the game, Jazz. The only way they could've properly prepared for Olynyk's early exit was if they knew he was bailing before the season. It would've required the signing of a top 100 level 2013 big man in the November signing period. Back then they had no idea that Olynyk would blow up like he did, so there was no need to bring in such a player at that time. They also had a 4 man big man rotation going into the season. Even if they had tried to get a top 100 level 2013 big man, he would've likely passed due to PT issues.

They simply had to rely on grad transfers, but those guys don't become available until spring at the very earliest. The season has to finish, players have to get released, etc. It's not like Few could've phoned up Josh Davis in February to try to get him to come to Gonzaga. He was playing for Tulane.

Malastein
06-18-2013, 08:40 PM
I don't think this is the conversation if the Zags beat Wichita State. And I'd bet money they'd have their pick of the litter if they had gone Final Four. Older guys value the ability to win now, and every hyper competitive basketball player is going to measure success in the NCAA tournament the most.

MDABE80
06-18-2013, 08:58 PM
Add to that the media shellacking we took. Think kids don't follow espn or the other media? I suspect that's were they get most of their ideas as to who is good and who is fluff.
No matter how WE feel they were pretty clear where they saw us. 4 weeks as no 1 in polls was a period where the scribes were a wee bit doubtful. Couple that to the early out, we took a lickin'.

It's their schedule , it's their league..etc. We got no favors. Shouldn't have needed favors. Why the media got so nasty toward our program still needs some clearing up. BCS supporters most of the time. Well, it doesn't matter now. I think we best be looking forward to have a serious rebuilding year. I doubt the upcoming will be our usual.
Remember though, there was no mystery that we'd lose Elias........and still nothing to replace him. There was a big hole...and still nothing. Sorry to be so direct. I love the team but something in our own system failed.

cjm720
06-18-2013, 09:10 PM
Abe, we'd be okay if Spangler didn't leave don't you agree? System problem??

MDABE80
06-18-2013, 09:40 PM
Spangler wouln't have cured the whole problem but he would have been very helpful. Not sure about the second issue. First time in years .......many many years we've been left so short underneath.
Dana specifically is very gifted in recruiting though.plus he has the Nike angle to be certain his kids get everything.
What I don't quite get is why he's loaded up on so many 1 year bigs. These kids must know it's crowded there.

Pargo the Destroyer
06-18-2013, 09:57 PM
Zags just aren't as attractive. Bottom line. And the peripheral things you allude to CDC may not mean much to you or me, but it obviously carries more weight with a late teen/early 20yr old. This team/board is in for a rude awakening me thinks.

Vanzagger
06-19-2013, 12:43 AM
Hold onto your hats. It's gonna be another big year

VinnyZag
06-19-2013, 06:22 AM
Disagree. Davis and Moser would start over Dower, guaranteed. Both are flat out better players than him, and they have proven it at the college level.

I wasn't very clear. I was thinking more Amardi. He may have looked at Dower and Karnowski and thought that coming off the bench for a WCC team wasn't in his best interest.

bartruff1
06-19-2013, 07:44 AM
Oregon is not chopped liver...they have plenty to offer.... Gonzaga has had and will continue to attract transfers. There are outstanding examples.

I don't believe the Shockers game had any effect on recruitment.

duper
06-19-2013, 08:41 AM
Shockers game is being felt more now than with the transfers, imo. But I don't think it is going to hurt that bad, of course its not a positive but not really a huge negative either.

229SintoZag
06-19-2013, 08:54 AM
Have any of you folks seen the Oregon cheerleaders?

Just sayin'.

DixieZag
06-19-2013, 09:22 AM
Have any of you folks seen the Oregon cheerleaders?

Just sayin'.

You make a good point. Ours may not reach Oregon's level but they aren't a bunch of dairy workers, either. Plus, ours can spell UO.

MDABE80
06-19-2013, 09:28 AM
I don't think Wichita loss was all that bad. It's the last 4 weeks of the seson when we were no 1. We were treated like crap in the press and other media. Then comes the dessert........a so called "barely win" in round 1 and then a "crushing loss" in round two.
They dressed this us to make GU look like frauds........don't belng........and then so much made of leaving early.."a no 1 team being bounced in the 2nd round by a low seed....unheard of" and so it went.......and it went for quite some time.

In my view, the whole thing was damaging. No matter though.....we'll get by this year and win 20 games. Rebuilding is underway. It's about all we can do.

bartruff1
06-19-2013, 10:37 AM
Have any of you folks seen the Oregon cheerleaders?

Just sayin'.

From one dirty old man...it is at least as valid as Opie making 7 threes as a cause....

maynard g krebs
06-19-2013, 10:47 AM
What I don't quite get is why he's loaded up on so many 1 year bigs. These kids must know it's crowded there.

This year it's two one-years. Their entire front line graduated and Kuemper left (not good enough); they only return a fr (Carter) and a JC (Austin). Both 10 minute a game guys last yr. Looks like only one frontline fr big coming in, Bell from LA, as it looks like the Brazilian Felicio is iffy at best (still no SAT score). Ducks were just as thin up front as the Zags till they got the transfers.

Kent left Altman a mess, and he went the transfer route to win right away instead of building with freshmen and losing for a few years. Then he lost his entire first fr recruiting class (Brown, Barron, Kingma, Kuemper), so he had to get even more transfers.

cjm720
06-19-2013, 10:59 AM
I wonder how different the academic responsibilities are between GU and Oregon for grad school?

I'm guessing Oregon has beautiful, well-paid tutors to help players along....much at GU would be on their own.

GorgeZag
06-19-2013, 11:19 AM
We really needed to make a couple of deep tourney runs these past couple (several?) years since Ammo left. Needed to cement ourselves as the dominant west coast program while Arizona, UCLA, and Oregon were all "down"

cjm720
06-19-2013, 11:42 AM
We really needed to make a couple of deep tourney runs these past couple (several?) years since Ammo left. Needed to cement ourselves as the dominant west coast program while Arizona, UCLA, and Oregon were all "down"

Of course a tourney run's important but the biggest difference is that we're a small religious school compared to mega public instutions....different strokes for different folks. We have a ton to offer, but not all like what we are (and the conference we play in).

john montana
06-19-2013, 11:56 AM
Have any of you folks seen the Oregon cheerleaders?

Just sayin'.

This.

bartruff1
06-19-2013, 12:06 PM
I think it is the floor... " Your going to like the way it looks , I guarantee it "

229SintoZag
06-19-2013, 02:39 PM
I think it is the floor... " Your going to like the way it looks , I guarantee it "

Can you believe they let the founder go? He IS that company. Bizarre.

madness
06-19-2013, 02:58 PM
I am driving to Spokane next week from San Jose and we generally stop in Eugene for the night right by the U. Let's just say I may be trucking the extra miles to Corvallis this time...

Also, I have a hankering for Peking Duck tonight...hmm