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View Full Version : Why should Josh Perkins pick Gonzaga?



cjm720
06-17-2013, 01:39 PM
Love this kids game and really see a good fit for him at GU. I'm going to list three reasons why he'd make a good home here, and I'm hoping everyone can add to the list.

1) Program's stability and Dance appearances under Coach Mark Few

2) John Stockton

3) Basketball IS the thing on campus and in Spokane

cggonzaga
06-17-2013, 02:42 PM
Opportunity to be THE man.

Zagdawg
06-17-2013, 02:48 PM
He could be part of the team that makes the Final 4 for the first time in the history of the program.

:)


Go Zags

75Zag
06-17-2013, 02:54 PM
In the frenzy to recruit players I hope we do not forget the many qualities of Gonzaga University. Sure we have great athletic facilities. Sure we have a beautiful campus. Sure we have a quality education. And all GU students gain a learned commitment to help others. A beautiful setting in the Inland Empire, near to the ski facilities of Mt. Spokane and Montana. A great airport, with frequent direct or connection service to national and international destinations. And, most importantly, the bartender with the curly hair at the Peacock Bar at the Davenport makes the best Mojito west of Manhattan.

Mr. Perkins may have his choice of locations, but if he does not pick Spokane, he is making a mistake.

Go Bulldogs!

thespywhozaggedme
06-17-2013, 05:58 PM
Love this kids game and really see a good fit for him at GU. I'm going to list three reasons why he'd make a good home here, and I'm hoping everyone can add to the list.

1) Program's stability and Dance appearances under Coach Mark Few

2) John Stockton

3) Basketball IS the thing on campus and in Spokane

Does #2 actually help kids in a hands on way? You never hear much about that.

Oregonzagnut
06-17-2013, 07:18 PM
Does #2 actually help kids in a hands on way? You never hear much about that.

I'd like to know too. It seems John Stockton's influence is deliberately underemphasized to the point of being a myth. Does Stockton "help" our guys or even go to practices? Can Stockton help Mark Few and the team in any way during these practices? Can Stockton work with our guys in off-season training or mentor them as student athletes without the NCAA bird dogging him?

Is Stockton is considered a booster or a donor? Has he ever flatly refused any position on the staff or in the athletic dept? Stockton might be more effective giving "off the radar" advice than being a staff member that must adhere to an NCAA calendar of rules and official dates. JS may be Fews ace in the hole and if that is true, no wonder Stockton never says a word or shows his hand at all.

Both Stockton and Few would make great poker players for the simple reason they can go expressionless for hours and days on end.:jk:

Perkins should come to Gonzaga to make his whole life better in every way.

OZZY
06-17-2013, 07:33 PM
Does #2 actually help kids in a hands on way? You never hear much about that.

On another thread this was posted......

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/56...rkout.html.csp

Utah Jazz: Gonzaga’s Kelly Olynyk headlines latest workout group
By Bill Oram | The Salt Lake Tribune
First Published 1 hour ago • Updated 1 hour ago
The Utah Jazz have, in their history, drafted one player from Gonzaga University. And wouldn’t you know, Kelly Olynyk is on a first-name basis with him.

"That Gonzaga tie is huge," Olynyk said after working out for the Jazz on Saturday, "with John being here."

John is, of course, Stockton, the NBA’s all-time leader in assists and a guy who in Olynyk’s four years at Gonzaga has had the potential lottery pick’s ear.

"You’ve got to pick his brain whenever you get the chance," Olynyk said, "because five minutes with him is like 10 years with a lot of other people, in terms of basketball knowledge."

Zippyzaggy
06-17-2013, 08:24 PM
1. Gonzaga is a Jesuit Institution. Last I checked UCLA, Syracuse, and Kentucky were not.

2. On GU's campus he will be THE rock star....the whole community will know, support, and love you.

3. Smaller, warmer & fuzzier College community atmosphere. A guy can get lost, even swallowed up at UCLA et al.

LongIslandZagFan
06-18-2013, 03:42 AM
Does #2 actually help kids in a hands on way? You never hear much about that.

Ask Courtney Vandersloot.

Midwestzag
06-18-2013, 05:55 AM
Watched a Sky game last week. Ms. Vandersloot was setting nasty picks against the bigs in the paint like John Stockton did with the Jazz.

DixieZag
06-18-2013, 06:02 AM
No football team.

That is 5 reasons right there.

ZagsZombieNation
06-18-2013, 06:23 AM
If Perkins is that good then he would take 3-4 minutes from Pangos and Bell each as well as taking Stockton's minutes. But I still think it unlikely that he's a star from day 1.

SteelCityZag
06-18-2013, 07:37 AM
If Perkins is that good then he would take 3-4 minutes from Pangos and Bell each as well as taking Stockton's minutes. But I still think it unlikely that he's a star from day 1.

I sort of think if Josh Perkins were to come here, it will change the makeup of the way the staff sees the team. Not sure we've seen a kid quite like this, but what is certain is that there would be a substantial "Josh Perkins" effect on the team, resulting in new roles for all the guards that would allow each to play more to his strengths.

Here's hoping.

mgadfly
06-18-2013, 07:53 AM
I'm not sure emphasizing Stockton is a good idea. Don't hide him. But whenever someone says Stockton as a reason to go to GU I can't help but think what we are actually saying to the recruit is, "once, ten years before you were born, GU had a guy who made a major impact in the NBA."

When compared to other teams who can point to more relevant (to young recruits) and contemporary successes in the NBA, I'm not sure it is a comparison we want to emphasize.

It is a little like saying, "for three weeks in the late spring (usually when you will go home and visit friends) Spokane is neither too cold, nor too hot and is a beautiful place to be" right before the recruit heads off to visit San Diego or some other place with a beach and thermostat always set to 72.

jazzdelmar
06-18-2013, 08:00 AM
I'm not sure emphasizing Stockton is a good idea. Don't hide him. But whenever someone says Stockton as a reason to go to GU I can't help but think what we are actually saying to the recruit is, "once, ten years before you were born, GU had a guy who made a major impact in the NBA."

When compared to other teams who can point to more relevant (to young recruits) and contemporary successes in the NBA, I'm not sure it is a comparison we want to emphasize.

It is a little like saying, "for three weeks in the late spring (usually when you will go home and visit friends) Spokane is neither too cold, nor too hot and is a beautiful place to be" right before the recruit heads off to visit San Diego or some other place with a beach and thermostat always set to 72.


Exactly. The "thermostat" right now is 72. 🌞

zagssuperfan
06-18-2013, 08:04 AM
[QUOTE=mgadfly;918157] "once, ten years before you were born, GU had a guy who made a major impact in the NBA."

I disagree with this stance. Stockton isnt just some guy who had a major impact, he is THE guy. Stockton is still the leader in all time steals and assists. Perkins is a pass first PG, so who better to learn from than the greatest passer of all time?

cjm720
06-18-2013, 08:15 AM
I'm adding to my list:

4) Pangos/Bell/Coleman will be senior mentors and he'll still see a lot of time

5) Travis Reid - if he were to commit

LongIslandZagFan
06-18-2013, 08:47 AM
I'm not sure emphasizing Stockton is a good idea. Don't hide him. But whenever someone says Stockton as a reason to go to GU I can't help but think what we are actually saying to the recruit is, "once, ten years before you were born, GU had a guy who made a major impact in the NBA."

When compared to other teams who can point to more relevant (to young recruits) and contemporary successes in the NBA, I'm not sure it is a comparison we want to emphasize.

It is a little like saying, "for three weeks in the late spring (usually when you will go home and visit friends) Spokane is neither too cold, nor too hot and is a beautiful place to be" right before the recruit heads off to visit San Diego or some other place with a beach and thermostat always set to 72.

He is a top 50 player of ALL TIME. That isn't just some guy. My 14 yr old loves watching old higlights just to see how Stockton passes. I see him making similar passes in CYO ball. So don't underestimate the impact.

titopoet
06-18-2013, 08:48 AM
6. Espn love GU and GU has had more ESPN games than UCLA in the same timeframe.

7. Development. Did you see how Kelly O went from nobody to lotto pick. Imagine what our trainers can do to make you shine. Shabazz Muhammad went from can't miss to can't shoot in his time at UCLA.

(by the way Perkins is a 2014 and wouldn't take minutes from stockon. Stockton graduates by then.)

Angelo Roncalli
06-18-2013, 08:52 AM
He could get a personally autographed copy:

http://www.krem.com/news/local/John-Stocktons--211908391.html

mgadfly
06-18-2013, 11:03 AM
He is a top 50 player of ALL TIME. That isn't just some guy. My 14 yr old loves watching old higlights just to see how Stockton passes. I see him making similar passes in CYO ball. So don't underestimate the impact.

I wouldn't hide him. But I don't think he is our selling point. It invites unfavorable comparisons. He is great, but I'd bet more 14 year olds (who aren't already GU fans) are more likely to know who OJ Mayo is than John Stockton.

If we had a recent run of prominent NBA players (say a starter level guy every five years since) that we could point to, it would be fine emphasizing Stockton. But since we don't have a continued history of getting guys not only to professional basketball, but to the upper tier of the NBA, it kind of highlights our lesser qualities.

14 year olds aren't a year or two away from millions of dollars. They are fans (even the ones who end up being great players). They have a different value system than a top tier recruit who is about to get paid. Recruits are young businessmen (and if they aren't thinking about the business side of things somebody is thinking about it for them). And there is nothing wrong with them trying to put themselves in a place where they are most likely to succeed in a competitive entertainment market.

Pointing to John Stockton is great for 40 and 50 year old guys. It is also fine for 14 year old kids who will never have millions of dollars on the line. But for 17 year old recruits (and I'm limiting it to top tier NBA potential guys) who have so much at stake, they don't want to hear about how GU got a guy into the league back in 84 who went on to be great. They want to know who you put in the league 5 years ago, 2 years ago, and last year and how you are going to make sure they are able to make the next step.

If we are selling something at GU today, it should be the Kelly Olynyk Clinic and what our staff can do to make 3-star type recruits get big pay days (just imagine what they could do with a 5-star guy).

LongIslandZagFan
06-18-2013, 11:11 AM
I wouldn't hide him. But I don't think he is our selling point. It invites unfavorable comparisons. He is great, but I'd bet more 14 year olds (who aren't already GU fans) are more likely to know who OJ Mayo is than John Stockton.

If we had a recent run of prominent NBA players (say a starter level guy every five years since) that we could point to, it would be fine emphasizing Stockton. But since we don't have a continued history of getting guys not only to professional basketball, but to the upper tier of the NBA, it kind of highlights our lesser qualities.

14 year olds aren't a year or two away from millions of dollars. They are fans (even the ones who end up being great players). They have a different value system than a top tier recruit who is about to get paid. Recruits are young businessmen (and if they aren't thinking about the business side of things somebody is thinking about it for them). And there is nothing wrong with them trying to put themselves in a place where they are most likely to succeed in a competitive entertainment market.

Pointing to John Stockton is great for 40 and 50 year old guys. It is also fine for 14 year old kids who will never have millions of dollars on the line. But for 17 year old recruits (and I'm limiting it to top tier NBA potential guys) who have so much at stake, they don't want to hear about how GU got a guy into the league back in 84 who went on to be great. They want to know who you put in the league 5 years ago, 2 years ago, and last year and how you are going to make sure they are able to make the next step.

If we are selling something at GU today, it should be the Kelly Olynyk Clinic and what our staff can do to make 3-star type recruits get big pay days (just imagine what they could do with a 5-star guy).

You don't think having access to the NBA career assist and steal leader and arguably one of the best passers to ever play the game for advice and instruction would be important to a PG recruit.... Ummm... OK... To each his own.

HenneZag
06-18-2013, 11:15 AM
I give complete respect to John, he has accomplished so much and is a nice role model for the institution. And all though it certainly helps to have him around our program, I don't think it does as much for landing recruits as some may think, of course jmo.

What is going to speak volumes in the now is the production and development of our current and recent players. KO/EH etc..Of course a deep tourney run will help as well.

I think its hard for most current recruits now to fully respect what John has done because they were most likely not even born yet. Im sure they get stories and have learned about him which is great but not the modern day selling point imo.

Its also hard for me to make an assumption because I really don't know how much he is around the program on a daily basis, and how he interacts with the players on a personal level, if I knew maybe it would change my opinion on this discussion.

LongIslandZagFan
06-18-2013, 11:23 AM
I give complete respect to John, he has accomplished so much and is a nice role model for the institution. And all though it certainly helps to have him around our program, I don't think it does as much for landing recruits as some may think, of course jmo.

What is going to speak volumes in the now is the production and development of our current and recent players. KO/EH etc..Of course a deep tourney run will help as well.

I think its hard for most current recruits now to fully respect what John has done because they were most likely not even born yet. Im sure they get stories and have learned about him which is great but not the modern day selling point imo.

Its also hard for me to make an assumption because I really don't know how much he is around the program on a daily basis, and how he interacts with the players on a personal level, if I knew maybe it would change my opinion on this discussion.

He worked with Courtney (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/28/sports/ncaabasketball/28gonzaga.html?_r=0)... I highly doubt he doesn't work with the men's players from time to time.

maynard g krebs
06-18-2013, 11:39 AM
they don't want to hear about how GU got a guy into the league back in 84 who went on to be great. .

That's off the point. The point is that one of probably the 3 greatest to play the position ever is there and is actively involved with players in the program. A smart player would see the value of that. It's certainly true that not all players are smart, though.

ZagsZombieNation
06-18-2013, 11:48 AM
I'm adding to my list:

4) Pangos/Bell/Coleman will be senior mentors and he'll still see a lot of time

5) Travis Reid - if he were to commit

You can add Kyle Dranginis as an experienced mentor since he will be a 4th year junior.

HenneZag
06-18-2013, 11:57 AM
If a player does not choose GU solely because John is there does that make them dumb? And are you certain he is actively involved with the players?

I see what you are saying, the value is definitely their, but gotta say this is a more diva related era. Players want results and often guarantee that they will either play in the NBA or start, which I hate to say this is what it's coming to it drives me nuts. Earn your spot, the purity is on a downswing.

mgadfly
06-18-2013, 12:11 PM
You don't think having access to the NBA career assist and steal leader and arguably one of the best passers to ever play the game for advice and instruction would be important to a PG recruit.... Ummm... OK... To each his own.

Ummmm, where did I say that?

mgadfly
06-18-2013, 12:15 PM
That's off the point. The point is that one of probably the 3 greatest to play the position ever is there and is actively involved with players in the program. A smart player would see the value of that. It's certainly true that not all players are smart, though.

Sure, smart people choose some ambiguous and undefined potential involvement from a great player (who may or may not be a great coach) rather than choose a committed coach with a recent track record of making his top tier players millions of dollars.

I think there is value in Stockton.
Apparently, I don't think it is as much as some GU fans think.

MDABE80
06-18-2013, 12:55 PM
He'd come to GU because it's consistently one of the top 2-3 programs on the West coast. We do have the culture he's brought up in. We do have more TV appearances than nearly anyone. We have superior facilities and a strong track record. We are consistently ranked. Should I go on???? He would give us 4 guards to work with and he'd be a standout here. Not bad for a new kid.
Would you rather be lost at KU, UK, UCLA? I wouldn't. Here is a great opportunity. If he does well, he'll know it.

cggonzaga
06-18-2013, 01:09 PM
Would you rather be lost at KU, UK, UCLA?

A player like Josh doesn't get lost at those schools either. The big difference in my opinion is he is the star at Gonzaga (thus nationally) instead of a great player amongst other great players at those other universities. Josh has the ability to be an all american in college but that becomes harder to do when you're playing with 3-4 other possible all americans and more being recruited every year.

MDABE80
06-18-2013, 01:24 PM
Doesn't make it harder. It enhances his chances. He'd be lost with all the STUDS a those other school. UK loaded......the twins!....UCLA loaded.......and KU is loaded up again....as is DUke.etc.
I think Josh would easily be a standout here. Sharing lots of time with other stars at the larger schools doesn't say anything bad about his talent but it would be much harder to grab the spotlight.. at the other places mentioned.
Who knows though???

zagssuperfan
06-18-2013, 01:37 PM
Doesn't make it harder. It enhances his chances. He'd be lost with all the STUDS a those other school. UK loaded......the twins!....UCLA loaded.......and KU is loaded up again....as is DUke.etc.
I think Josh would easily be a standout here. Sharing lots of time with other stars at the larger schools doesn't say anything bad about his talent but it would be much harder to grab the spotlight.. at the other places mentioned.
Who knows though???

You keep referencing the twins as if it will have an effect on Perkins, but they are the number one players at their positions. I doubt that they will be around when Perkins gets there, so they are kind of irrelevant.

MDABE80
06-18-2013, 03:08 PM
Maybe. Maybe not. I've seen them. Not sure either the one and done types. I think both need 2 years or more.

zagssuperfan
06-18-2013, 03:54 PM
I don't know your credentials, but every draft board I have seen has Andrew has a top 7 pick, and all but one has Aaron as a first round pick. I'm going to have to go with the people who are paid to do it.

MDABE80
06-18-2013, 05:27 PM
We'll see.....maybe they both got a lot better. BUT I'm not worried about other schools' commits. I'd like Perkins and I think this is the better place for him. Have it your own way.......

thespywhozaggedme
06-18-2013, 05:38 PM
I'm not sure emphasizing Stockton is a good idea. Don't hide him. But whenever someone says Stockton as a reason to go to GU I can't help but think what we are actually saying to the recruit is, "once, ten years before you were born, GU had a guy who made a major impact in the NBA."

When compared to other teams who can point to more relevant (to young recruits) and contemporary successes in the NBA, I'm not sure it is a comparison we want to emphasize.

It is a little like saying, "for three weeks in the late spring (usually when you will go home and visit friends) Spokane is neither too cold, nor too hot and is a beautiful place to be" right before the recruit heads off to visit San Diego or some other place with a beach and thermostat always set to 72.


Robert Horry aka "Big Game Bob" had a major impact on the NBA. John Stockton was named one of the top 50 players of all time and a HOFer. Me thinks you don't realize just how good and famous he was/is.

Kiddwell
06-18-2013, 05:50 PM
Why pick the Zags? Because the Zags are utterly and totally cool--not to mention, America's Default Team*.



:]



*Who else are "The Also Rans" and "Up-and-Comers" trying to emulate?

mgadfly
06-18-2013, 06:09 PM
Robert Horry aka "Big Game Bob" had a major impact on the NBA. John Stockton was named one of the top 50 players of all time and a HOFer. Me thinks you don't realize just how good and famous he was/is.

My point was that is what 17 year olds would hear.

It doesn't matter how good Stockton was.
It doesn't matter if thespywhozaggedme knows how good Stockton was.
It doesn't matter if I know how good Stockton was.

It matters what 17 year old elite level recruits will hear when you start talking about somebody whose major body of work is before they were born.

When I was 17 I wanted to hear about Michael Jordan (and maybe Larry Bird and Magic Johnson). Bill Russell? Wilt Chamberlain? Dr. J.? If they weren't on the Dream Team, they had to suck.

So unless we are recruiting for the Sports History department, Stockton isn't going to resonate like some of you think. (If it did, I guess we would have all the five star point guard recruits just lined up at our door just in case one of the three best guys at the point guard position happens to come by the gym and gives a couple of pointers).

Me thinks you don't want to understand what I was saying because you want Stockton to be more relevant today than he actually is.

mgadfly
06-18-2013, 06:13 PM
And Louisiana Tech will have all the five star power forwards.

maynard g krebs
06-18-2013, 06:47 PM
Sure, smart people choose some ambiguous and undefined potential involvement from a great player (who may or may not be a great coach) rather than choose a committed coach with a recent track record of making his top tier players millions of dollars.


Kind of twists what I said. I was responding to the concept presented that an old timer like Stockton is fairly meaningless to today's kids. I never said anyone would make a decision based on his presence; just that it is something a smart kid would consider and it could in some cases carry some weight. I would guess it may have with Pangos, though that's just speculation of course.

jrmeehan
06-18-2013, 06:54 PM
People posting reasons, but not reasons that most others colleges don't have. Very little differentiation...

Ucla has Kareem, guy has some knowledge I think.
Playing with other great players I believe helps his chances of being an all American, ask trey Burke vs dellavadova.
Jesuit is a legit reason, depends on how much the religious part plays.
Big man on campus? Pretty sure the guys everywhere else do pretty well for themselves, Especially the likes of duke ucla etc...
The espn thing could be the only real reason. Parents could watch every game pretty much

Hope he picks zags, but I think he will go somewhere where he can get serious run his first year.

HenneZag
06-18-2013, 07:00 PM
I really want Perkins to choose GU. But if he doesn't I wont be heart broken. I think Silas and Perkins would be a kick ass combo, but if Perkins decides on a different destination we will be ok. Who could we pair with Melson if we don't get Perkins is now whats on my mind. Silas is more of a scorer then a distributor so someone who could thread the needle would be a nice fit.

thespywhozaggedme
06-18-2013, 09:27 PM
And Louisiana Tech will have all the five star power forwards.

Does Karl Malone attend every LaTech game and have a kid (that he actually claims) play for the team? Is LaTech a national powerhouse that plays on national tv all of the time? Other than that, it was a pretty good comparison.

thespywhozaggedme
06-18-2013, 09:29 PM
My point was that is what 17 year olds would hear.

It doesn't matter how good Stockton was.
It doesn't matter if thespywhozaggedme knows how good Stockton was.
It doesn't matter if I know how good Stockton was.

It matters what 17 year old elite level recruits will hear when you start talking about somebody whose major body of work is before they were born.

When I was 17 I wanted to hear about Michael Jordan (and maybe Larry Bird and Magic Johnson). Bill Russell? Wilt Chamberlain? Dr. J.? If they weren't on the Dream Team, they had to suck.

So unless we are recruiting for the Sports History department, Stockton isn't going to resonate like some of you think. (If it did, I guess we would have all the five star point guard recruits just lined up at our door just in case one of the three best guys at the point guard position happens to come by the gym and gives a couple of pointers).

Me thinks you don't want to understand what I was saying because you want Stockton to be more relevant today than he actually is.

The guys in his late 40's, not his late 60's like you're making him out to be. If a pg that we're recruiting doesn't know who John Stockton is, then I wouldn't want him. Your posts about this are borderline embarrassing.

deathchina
06-18-2013, 09:38 PM
My top 3 is actually Magic, Oscar and Isiah Thomas.

MDABE80
06-18-2013, 09:50 PM
I know John is busy with his own kids and surely his family. It might help if he bacame closer to the program.not just as a spectator.
I'd guess he keeps his distance bauce he has a son who's a big part of the team but is borderline at times. It could be an uncomfortable situation. I'd like to have him be more of a presence. I believe it would help in many areas. BUT John's life is his own........he's been a considerable ad for the program over the years.
John is a legend. There cannot be any doubt. BUT the culture is changed. A HOF guy with unbreakable records who did it with talent but incredible discipline may be a bit too remote for some of the new faces. If it was me, I'd wrap myself in every move John made. If John doesn't show up much, it might not matter.

Us older guys who watched or were part of John's journey........well he matters. "you're only as good as your last game/season" is foreign to us.

mgadfly
06-19-2013, 07:24 AM
The guys in his late 40's, not his late 60's like you're making him out to be. If a pg that we're recruiting doesn't know who John Stockton is, then I wouldn't want him. Your posts about this are borderline embarrassing.

Knowing who John Stockton is, and having John Stockton be a major reason why high level recruit would choose Gonzaga are two very different things. Maybe it is a reading comprehension thing with you. At any rate, your posts are embarrassing.

The kids we are recruiting now were in pre-school to 1st grade when Stockton played his last professional game of basketball. They weren't born the last time he led the league in assists. Their parents weren't married when he was on the dream team and their parents were in elementary school when he last played for GU.

Me thinks those are the facts, embarrassing or not.

mgadfly
06-19-2013, 07:30 AM
Does Karl Malone attend every LaTech game and have a kid (that he actually claims) play for the team? Is LaTech a national powerhouse that plays on national tv all of the time? Other than that, it was a pretty good comparison.

There is a history of Karl Malone being too involved in Tech's athletics.

So, now it isn't that Stockton is one of the greatest point guards of all-time that matters, it is his incidental contact with the program (most significantly a cut-shot of him sitting with his wife in the stands) that should have the recruits lining up? Or is it that he has a son that plays for the team? I'm a little embarrassed for you trying to figure out why any serious high major recruit would care.

HenneZag
06-19-2013, 07:45 AM
John is a laid back guy. You see it on TV and you see it in person. He doesn't want to be the center of attention. Who knows if this is how he is with the players on the team. I have said before I have so much respect for who he is and what he has done throughout his career, his involvement with the program to me is still a mystery. Obviously it can't hurt, but how much does it help is the question. I won't begin to act like I know what goes on behind closed doors, I can only assume from what I observe from the outside.

maynard g krebs
06-19-2013, 11:25 AM
My top 3 is actually Magic, Oscar and Isiah Thomas.

I'll take Walt Frazier over Isaiah 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Magic and Oscar are the other 2 though.

Wilt Chamberlain called JS the best player in the league when he was in his prime.

maynard g krebs
06-19-2013, 11:36 AM
Maybe somebody closer to the situation can weigh in, but doesn't JS still play pickup games at the warehouse along with other alums in the offseason? Seems like that was reported within the last few years at least. No different than Calvary or Violette or Santangelo playing w/ current players.

gamagin
06-19-2013, 12:11 PM
Maybe somebody closer to the situation can weigh in, but doesn't JS still play pickup games at the warehouse along with other alums in the offseason? Seems like that was reported within the last few years at least. No different than Calvary or Violette or Santangelo playing w/ current players.

this is true, last I checked. basically, it's invitation only and JS owns the Warehouse so it's not like you can wander in. Part of his staying in shape is scrimmaging with and against new and old Zags. Year around whenever a pickup game can be arranged.

JS also still works out (read trains, weights, stretching, whatever) with Few and some other close friends. He has always been available to GU (and invisible to just about everyone else) for any number of purposes. And contrary to the ridiculous suggestion that JS is irrelevant, JS is considered by the nearest contenders (Magic and Cousy) as arguably the best p.g. to every play the game. EVER. I have yet heard anyone, up to Pangos, say he's even lost a step, though that has to happen sometime. I suspect him losing a step would simply mean being only 9 times better than anyone else on the floor at any given time. So far.

Any p.g. worth anything would, could and can learn from studying JS and yes, getting first hand information, from the man himself, should the GU staff ask him to talk to them. That's right up through Pangos.

And one can presume, beyond, for as long as he continues to live in Spokane, which appears to be for a long, long time to come, given his roots.

I think gadfly's post above is silly and irrelevant and way off the mark. At least until I looked up the definition of gadfly in the dictionary.

GADFLY
gad·fly noun \ˈgad-ˌflī\

gadfly [ˈgædˌflaɪ]
n pl -flies

1. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Animals) any of various large dipterous flies, esp the horsefly, that annoy livestock by sucking their blood
2. a constantly irritating or harassing person.

Schmitty
06-19-2013, 12:29 PM
The kids we are recruiting now were in pre-school to 1st grade when Stockton played his last professional game of basketball. They weren't born the last time he led the league in assists. Their parents weren't married when he was on the dream team and their parents were in elementary school when he last played for GU.

Me thinks those are the facts, embarrassing or not.[/QUOTE]

The kids may have been in pre-school, but their Dad's weren't. Dad's often influence their children, maybe even to the point of which school to attend, based on who may be around the gym on a regular basis to help make their son the best they can be.

cjm720
06-19-2013, 12:48 PM
The kids we are recruiting now were in pre-school to 1st grade when Stockton played his last professional game of basketball. They weren't born the last time he led the league in assists. Their parents weren't married when he was on the dream team and their parents were in elementary school when he last played for GU.

Me thinks those are the facts, embarrassing or not.

The kids may have been in pre-school, but their Dad's weren't. Dad's often influence their children, maybe even to the point of which school to attend, based on who may be around the gym on a regular basis to help make their son the best they can be.[/QUOTE]

My dad influenced me to go to Gonzaga and it wasn't because there was a rock star CPA as an alum. John can only help our cause....might not be a major influence for some kids by its not going to hurt our chances.

229SintoZag
06-19-2013, 01:18 PM
The kids may have been in pre-school, but their Dad's weren't. Dad's often influence their children, maybe even to the point of which school to attend, based on who may be around the gym on a regular basis to help make their son the best they can be.

My dad influenced me to go to Gonzaga and it wasn't because there was a rock star CPA as an alum. John can only help our cause....might not be a major influence for some kids by its not going to hurt our chances.

Come now. Tex is a rock star CPA alum, no?

Tex?

gamagin
06-19-2013, 01:38 PM
My dad influenced me to go to Gonzaga and it wasn't because there was a rock star CPA as an alum. John can only help our cause....might not be a major influence for some kids by its not going to hurt our chances.

GU had an accounting teacher, a real rock star, too. Dan Brajcich. A legend whose creds and fans and students and teaching skills were celebrated for decades. fwiw.

mgadfly
06-19-2013, 01:50 PM
Why should Josh Perkins pick Gonzaga



John Stockton.


I'm not sure emphasizing Stockton is a good idea. Don't hide him. But whenever someone says Stockton as a reason to go to GU I can't help but think what we are actually saying to the recruit is, "once, ten years before you were born, GU had a guy who made a major impact in the NBA."

On topic.
Not silly.

The real reason he should pick GU?
This


He'd come to GU because it's consistently one of the top 2-3 programs on the West coast. We do have the culture he's brought up in. We do have more TV appearances than nearly anyone. We have superior facilities and a strong track record. We are consistently ranked. Should I go on???? He would give us 4 guards to work with and he'd be a standout here. Not bad for a new kid.
Would you rather be lost at KU, UK, UCLA? I wouldn't. Here is a great opportunity. If he does well, he'll know it.

and this


If we are selling something at GU today, it should be the Kelly Olynyk Clinic and what our staff can do to make 3-star type recruits get big pay days (just imagine what they could do with a 5-star guy).

mgadfly
06-19-2013, 01:57 PM
Any p.g. worth anything would, could and can learn from studying JS and yes, getting first hand information, from the man himself, should the GU staff ask him to talk to them. That's right up through Pangos.


True.

But how much is that actually worth? Why don't we have 5-star point guards three deep year in and year out? Is it because Mark Few and the guys aren't capable of capitalizing on Stockton's potential recruiting influence?

I never once questioned whether there was something that could be learned from John Stockton. I just doubt it is the recruiting capital/leverage some apparently think it is.

And further, I don't understand why people who know anything about basketball think just because someone was great at doing something means they would be great at teaching someone else to do it?

How many of the best coaches are in the hall of fame as players?

FieldHouseFishHouse
06-19-2013, 02:21 PM
This is an interesting conversation. I tend to agree with mgadfly's line of thinking.

We are really talking about two separate things:
1 - John Stockton as an example of the kind of player that GU can produce
2 - John Stockton as a asset to the current program.

Anyone doing #1 is living in the past. Stockton was not recruited or developed by the current staff. The best examples of players GU has developed would be Olynyk, Sacre, Pargo, Morrison (unfortunately), Daye, Turiaf and Dickau. Unfortunately only Turiaf has stuck in the NBA so far, and not as a consistent starter or big time producer....As a result Stockton's name still gets mentioned quite a bit.

As far as #2 goes, probably only those that are very close to the program know JS's value for sure. When I started at GU back in 2002 I heard from the players themselves that JS would play pick up ball on occasion, and he was apparently still VERY competitive. However, that was 11 years ago, JS is now in his 50's (not his late 40's as mentioned above).
How much longer will simply "playing with Stockton" retain value? I don't know, it depends on how much teaching he does during these sessions (again, I don't know exactly what his style is so I may be underestimating his impact here).

I think Stockton's legacy and his impact on the current program are overemphasized by most posters here...and probably under-emphasized by 16-18 year old recruits and their peers.

gamagin
06-19-2013, 02:22 PM
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=aaplw&p=arguing+with+an+idiot+and+the+futility

mgadfly
06-19-2013, 02:41 PM
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=aaplw&p=arguing+with+an+idiot+and+the+futility

Oh ad hominem I barely knew you before gamagin went on to name-calling.

Clever name calling though.

cjm720
06-19-2013, 02:44 PM
GU had an accounting teacher, a real rock star, too. Dan Brajcich. A legend whose creds and fans and students and teaching skills were celebrated for decades. fwiw.

I did think of him when I wrote that...proud to say I took his Advanced Accounting class....the last year of his reign, IIRC.

cggonzaga
06-19-2013, 03:10 PM
Why do i get the feeling gamagin is this guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bjQo492UD8

willandi
06-19-2013, 06:47 PM
Not saying that a recruit should come to Gonzaga because of Stockton, but it has been implied that recruits go to UCLA because of Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul Jabar.
The quality of Gonzaga for the last 10+ years, the quality of education and the number of TV appearances should be the selling factors.

ZagaZags
06-19-2013, 09:57 PM
Gonzaga has the best fans on the planet.

FieldHouseFishHouse
06-20-2013, 07:16 AM
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=aaplw&p=arguing+with+an+idiot+and+the+futility

I guess this is how you get to 10K posts.