PDA

View Full Version : WARNING* Bleacher Report*WARNING



sittingon50
05-21-2013, 06:22 PM
10 Best Coaches in CBB Without a National Title

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1646496-ranking-the-10-best-coaches-in-college-basketball-without-a-national-title/page/9

MTZag03
05-21-2013, 09:45 PM
actually not bad for bleacher report.

530ZAG
05-22-2013, 08:44 AM
Few's 6th at best..and I'm being kind.

Bo Ryan, Beilein, and Stevens should all be ahead of him. With Crean getting Indiana back on track and Smart getting more years under his belt, they'll both jump over Few as well.

Few has peaked. I'd take everyone off of this list over Few to lead the Zags expcept for Huggy and Montgomery (Huggins is a bit older and Montgomery isn't a favorite of mine).

webspinnre
05-22-2013, 08:49 AM
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't take Wright over Few, and Ryan and possibly Crean seem like they'd be more lateral moves to me. The biggest thing we'd have to remember isn't necessarily if they're a better coach than Few, but if they'd be better at GU.

530ZAG
05-22-2013, 09:22 AM
I hear you, and I wouldn't recommend Ryan or Crean to leave their jobs, but I'm tired of the lack of fire from Few. I don't think he inspires the guys when needed. It's not that I think the guys aren't extremely self-motivated, but sometimes you need your coach to light a fire under you. Just my personal opinion, but I think all of the aforementioned coaches do more with less at their programs.

I don't love the 'they wouldn't be better at GU' argument just because I think they could all settle in, and eventually, the program would take on their personality/coaching style.

The fact remains that we won't replace him, and I'm just bitter about it. I think Few knows his limitations as a coach/motivator and would never risk leaving, underperforming, and getting canned at a school with less patience/higher expectations than GU. So I suppose that leaves me hopelessly disgruntled with our coaching situation for the future.

Maybe Few will develop some fire? Or implement a defensive system that doesn't allow every team to play to their offensive strength? (ex. Wichita State -3's, Illinois - B Paul dominating the ball, too many others to count over many years). I guess anything is possible, but I doubt it.

I love the Zags, and it kills me to not have a stone-cold killer to lead the program. With Few, we will never reach our full potential.

Rant over.

DixieZag
05-22-2013, 09:39 AM
I hear you, and I wouldn't recommend Ryan or Crean to leave their jobs, but I'm tired of the lack of fire from Few. I don't think he inspires the guys when needed. It's not that I think the guys aren't extremely self-motivated, but sometimes you need your coach to light a fire under you. Just my personal opinion, but I think all of the aforementioned coaches do more with less at their programs.

I don't love the 'they wouldn't be better at GU' argument just because I think they could all settle in, and eventually, the program would take on their personality/coaching style.

The fact remains that we won't replace him, and I'm just bitter about it. I think Few knows his limitations as a coach/motivator and would never risk leaving, underperforming, and getting canned at a school with less patience/higher expectations than GU. So I suppose that leaves me hopelessly disgruntled with our coaching situation for the future.

Maybe Few will develop some fire? Or implement a defensive system that doesn't allow every team to play to their offensive strength? (ex. Wichita State -3's, Illinois - B Paul dominating the ball, too many others to count over many years). I guess anything is possible, but I doubt it.

I love the Zags, and it kills me to not have a stone-cold killer to lead the program. With Few, we will never reach our full potential.

Rant over.

Wow. You make some good points but leave out a lot of upside, too. Fire him? Wow.

webspinnre
05-22-2013, 09:43 AM
"lack of fire"? Seriously? Just because he's not all demonstrative doesn't mean he doesn't have fire. Also worth mentioning is that none of those coaches would leave their current jobs for GU. As such, we're pretty much left with Few, downgrading, or taking a flyer on someone who will probably be worse, has a small chance of being as good, and an even smaller chance of being better.

gamagin
05-22-2013, 09:56 AM
Few's 6th at best..and I'm being kind.

Bo Ryan, Beilein, and Stevens should all be ahead of him. With Crean getting Indiana back on track and Smart getting more years under his belt, they'll both jump over Few as well.

Few has peaked. I'd take everyone off of this list over Few to lead the Zags expcept for Huggy and Montgomery (Huggins is a bit older and Montgomery isn't a favorite of mine).

You clearly know what you are talking about and I want to cash in. I'm stuck in BRKb and am tired of the 80% return. thanks

Zagdawg
05-22-2013, 09:57 AM
Unreal expectations will lead to disappointment.

Many fans do not have the ability to take a step back or look at the big picture.

They need to blame someone for what they view as an issue-- "If i can place blame on someone, then I will feel better about the situation."

Blaming Few for Spangler leaving, blaming Few for Kelly going pro-- stuff does happen-- if the staff is doing the best that they can --i can't fault them.

We complain when the coaches grab a player as a reactionary move to another player leaving--then we complain about how good (or how much a player does not meet our expections)--then we also complain about the coaching staff taking additional time, trying to find the best player/fit for the team.

Patience and flexibility goes a long way-- it will help with the long term sanity.

530ZAG
05-22-2013, 10:35 AM
To be clear, Webspinnre, I never said that any of those coaches would or should leave their jobs to coach at GU if given the chance. While I love the Zags, they'd all be nuts to do so considering the shortcomings of our weak conference.

To Zagdawg, I think that's a pretty interesting take on my comments. I, unlike so many on these boards, don't follow Few blindly and kiss the ground he walks on. I don't place blame on Few make myself "feel better." I look at his performance objectively, and I just don't see much more of a growth in him. I think over the past few years he's been outcoached in most big games, and I would like to turn the page. While I realize that's a drastic step that many will not agree with, I don't see the value in staying with a guy who can't get you to your desired end.

Someone said something about expectations, and I agree, many fans have different expectations for the Zags. If fans want a 'fun' team that can consistently win the WCC and win some big neutral site games now and again, then Few is the obvious choice. I have a bit loftier goals/expectations for the Zags. I'd like to see us make the next big step above WCC championships and a couple big wins and become a feared opponent in the tourney. To do that, we would need to make a change in leadership. Programs take on the personality of their coaches and Few's approach isn't going to cut it.

You may call it 'patience and flexibility,' I call it massaging the hard truth and making excuses.

77Zag
05-22-2013, 10:42 AM
If you factor in the talent base, I would say MF is top of the list. Pretty sure Ohio State and Huggy's tenor has seen way more top rated talent through their programs.

DixieZag
05-22-2013, 10:45 AM
I am going to go out on a limb and guess that you are young enough to take the Zags success for granted. Your argument seems to assume that GU is a national power, with or without the stability of the family type program they have established.

Few has had the success he has had mainly because of that quality and it is unique. We all wish we could go further, some of that is on Few. But any program that would fire someone with the highest winning percentage bb and coming off a one seed is insane.

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 10:46 AM
530: If fans want a 'fun' team that can consistently win the WCC and win some big neutral site games now and again, then Few is the obvious choice. I have a bit loftier goals/expectations for the Zags. I'd like to see us make the next big step above WCC championships and a couple big wins and become a feared opponent in the tourney. To do that, we would need to make a change in leadership. Programs take on the personality of their coaches and Few's approach isn't going to cut it.


at the end of the day thats the choice for those of us who are not Few acolytes and, while we stipulate to his plusses -- community, honesty, family -- we also see major flaws in his approach to the game. he's not going anywhere. no BCS AD is gonna offer him $2mil now (if that was ever the case), so we either accept it or bail.

77Zag
05-22-2013, 10:47 AM
I am going to go out on a limb and guess that you are young enough to take the Zags success for granted. Your argument seems to assume that GU is a national power, with or without the stability of the family type program they have established.

Few has had the success he has had mainly because of that quality and it is unique. We all wish we could go further, some of that is on Few. But any program that would fire someone with the highest winning percentage bb and coming off a one seed is insane.

+1 Bingo and spot on.

Go Zags

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 10:47 AM
If you factor in the talent base, I would say MF is top of the list. Pretty sure Ohio State and Huggy's tenor has seen way more top rated talent through their programs.

Um, isnt acquiring talent a principal function of the head coach?

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 10:48 AM
I am going to go out on a limb and guess that you are young enough to take the Zags success for granted. Your argument seems to assume that GU is a national power, with or without the stability of the family type program they have established..

Alibi #235....

77Zag
05-22-2013, 10:52 AM
Um, isnt acquiring talent a principal function of the head coach?

I buy this for sure, but competing with the bigger beasts for many reasons is an ongoing hurdle. City of Spokane vs City of San Diego is just one example as we just realized.

gamagin
05-22-2013, 11:06 AM
I buy this for sure, but competing with the bigger beasts for many reasons is an ongoing hurdle. City of Spokane vs City of San Diego is just one example as we just realized.

San Diego sucks. Unless your trust fund can get you a place close enough to watch the (alleged) real people sail in and out of the harbor, or sip an exotic drink in the Hotel Coronado or gaslight district.

In Spokane, you can choose between 100 fresh water lakes within an hour, live the life of Reilly.

But if you must, you can always risk skin cancer and visit overpriced, overpraised, San Diego. A must see for me: The San Diego Zoo. Nothing like watching the gorillas heave their own fresh sh!t at the tourists staring down at them. Followed by hugely overpriced drinks for the honor of wasting my time & money in stuck up, boring, look-at-me, look-at-me, San Diego.

Zagdawg
05-22-2013, 11:08 AM
Jazz-- we understand you and 530 may very well be the same poster.

The "reality" you both bring is the reminder of the lack of 5* top 25 players on the roster and because of this the lack of a final 4/NT.

Help those of us that are not as forward thinking as you to understand, how many coaches would be bringing all this talent that is out there to Spokane (although Spokane does have its advantages).

Even a Pac12 school to the south of us has issues getting top talent to go there-- so we really can't base it on the conference.

Few takes 2, 3 star and 4 star players and gets a #1 ranking and a # 1 dance seed --gets to the dance each year-- multiple sweet 16's-- not bad for a little school in Spokane, Wa.

I can't for the life of me understand how you force yourselves to follow such a "terrible" program when just across the state is a program that gets top 30 recruiting classes regularly, has multiple first round picks on the roster and they are looking for fair weather fans just like you to add to the legacy that is the UW.

Go Zags.

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 11:11 AM
San Diego sucks. Unless your trust fund can get you a place close enough to watch the (alleged) real people sail in and out of the harbor, or sip an exotic drink in the Hotel Coronado or gaslight district.

In Spokane, you can choose between 100 fresh water lakes within an hour, live the life of Reilly.

But if you must, you can always risk skin cancer and visit overpriced, overpraised, San Diego. A must see for me: The San Diego Zoo. Nothing like watching the gorillas heave their own fresh sh!t at the tourists staring down at them. Followed by hugely overpriced drinks for the honor of wasting my time & money in stuck up, boring, look-at-me, look-at-me, San Diego.


I'm speechless, Gam. I have no speech, I am sans speech. But I love your fiery East Coast attitude. Don't take no sxxx from anyone, Gammer. Hilarious, though, as I contemplate a walk on a pristine beach or drive along the coast with the top down. I've been to Spokane, and trust me Gam, Spokane is no San Diego.

77Zag
05-22-2013, 11:12 AM
Jazz-- we understand you and 530 may very well be the same poster.

The "reality" you both bring is the reminder of the lack of 5* top 25 players on the roster and because of this the lack of a final 4/NT.

Help those of us that are not as forward thinking as you to understand, how many coaches would be bringing all this talent that is out there to Spokane (although Spokane does have its advantages).

Even a Pac12 school to the south of us has issues getting top talent to go there-- so we really can't base it on the conference.

Few takes 2, 3 star and 4 star players and gets a #1 ranking and a # 1 dance seed --gets to the dance each year-- multiple sweet 16's-- not bad for a little school in Spokane, Wa.

I can't for the life of me understand how you force yourselves to follow such a "terrible" program when just across the state is a program that gets top 30 recruiting classes regularly, has multiple first round picks on the roster and they are looking for fair weather fans just like you to add to the legacy that is the UW.

Go Zags.

Let alone turns them into All Americans

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 11:12 AM
Jazz-- we understand you and 530 may very well be the same poster.

The "reality" you both bring is the reminder of the lack of 5* top 25 players on the roster and because of this the lack of a final 4/NT.

Help those of us that are not as forward thinking as you to understand, how many coaches would be bringing all this talent that is out there to Spokane (although Spokane does have its advantages).

Even a Pac12 school to the south of us has issues getting top talent to go there-- so we really can't base it on the conference.

Few takes 2, 3 star and 4 star players and gets a #1 ranking and a # 1 dance seed --gets to the dance each year-- multiple sweet 16's-- not bad for a little school in Spokane, Wa.

I can't for the life of me understand how you force yourselves to follow such a "terrible" program when just across the state is a program that gets top 30 recruiting classes regularly, has multiple first round picks on the roster and they are looking for fair weather fans just like you to add to the legacy that is the UW.

Go Zags.

That's alibi #123

77Zag
05-22-2013, 11:16 AM
San Diego sucks. Unless your trust fund can get you a place close enough to watch the (alleged) real people sail in and out of the harbor, or sip an exotic drink in the Hotel Coronado or gaslight district.

In Spokane, you can choose between 100 fresh water lakes within an hour, live the life of Reilly.

But if you must, you can always risk skin cancer and visit overpriced, overpraised, San Diego. A must see for me: The San Diego Zoo. Nothing like watching the gorillas heave their own fresh sh!t at the tourists staring down at them. Followed by hugely overpriced drinks for the honor of wasting my time & money in stuck up, boring, look-at-me, look-at-me, San Diego.

Gam -- from the more mature perspective on life you have legit points...but to a young man with BBall as their life, let's be real. Hmmm, swim suits and sunny beaches in January or sleet, snow and a near frozen river.

GoZags
05-22-2013, 11:28 AM
Few's 6th at best..and I'm being kind.

Bo Ryan, Beilein, and Stevens should all be ahead of him. With Crean getting Indiana back on track and Smart getting more years under his belt, they'll both jump over Few as well.

Few has peaked. I'd take everyone off of this list over Few to lead the Zags expcept for Huggy and Montgomery (Huggins is a bit older and Montgomery isn't a favorite of mine).

I notice the title of your post is "Zag bias?"

A simple click of your mouse would have told you that the writer is the lead writer for Ohio State (did you notice who he had as #1 on his list?).

Just maybe he was impressed with Few and his coaching in the round of 32 of last year's dance ..... when Gonzaga took mighty Final Four bound Ohio State right down to the wire.

Or do you think Few was outcoached in that game?
Or do you think the difference was that Matta had used his recruiting prowess better than Few?

Regardless -- your thread title "Zag bias?" is ridiculous given that the article/ratings come from an Ohio State guy.

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 11:33 AM
Gam -- from the more mature perspective on life you have legit points...but to a young man with BBall as their life, let's be real. Hmmm, swim suits and sunny beaches in January or sleet, snow and a near frozen river.

When Charles Addams was a contributing cartoonist at The New Yorker, he would submit some pretty macabre drawings for consideration. One was particularly gruesome and could never be run in the book. But Addams would submit it every year or so anyway, over and over again. The kind editors would always know that when that drawing came over the transom it was time for Charles to, um, take a rest in a quiet and tranquil place, and they would notify his family it might time for the rest home. Posts like Gam's anti San Diego diatribe have me wondering the same thing.

maynard g krebs
05-22-2013, 11:35 AM
I hear you, and I wouldn't recommend Ryan or Crean to leave their jobs

Just my personal opinion, but I think all of the aforementioned coaches do more with less at their programs.



Ryan, Crean, and Beilein, at Wisconsin, Indiana, and Michigan respectively, do more with less than Few? You sorta lose any semblance of credibility (or rationality) with this statement.

I do share the belief that Few's uptight personality and conservative approach (ie milking the clock) late in games w/ a small lead tend to make the players tighten up in bigger games (March). I don't see anybody saying he's perfect.

But how many coaches have established and maintained, for over a decade, a consistent top 30 or better program at a school with a double digit conference RPI ranking? I'm pretty sure the answer to that is 1.

Some people seem to take the talent level for granted, forgetting that it was Monson, Few et al that raised that level to what it is. GU now routinely gets players that Fitzgerald would have told them not to bother recruiting.

Everybody's disappointed with the March losses. What the heck, I bet even the coaches are a little. But chances are high that if Few was replaced, the program drops. He's been brilliant at identifying and signing players that fit the system, developing them, and getting them to play as a team, as unselfishly as any in college bb.

gamagin
05-22-2013, 11:43 AM
Yeah it's really heck having four seasons vs. one. and affordable living and life and, did I mention, even our cute little basketball team was number one in the nation recently. the name is GONEZAWGA !

anyone, in fairness, here's a comparison randomly selected for genuine effect.

http://www.complex.com/city-guide/2013/05/10-cheap-cities-to-move-to-after-college/spokane-wa

vs. San Diego:

http://www.theawl.com/2013/01/what-became-of-san-diegos-newspapers

p.s. I'd throw in the pension plan for laughs. I think it's up to $3B in the red by now. But I may have overestimated by $100k or so.

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 11:45 AM
Everybody's disappointed with the March losses. What the heck, I bet even the coaches are a little. But chances are if Few was replaced, the program drops. He's been brilliant at identifying and signing players that fit the system, developing them, and getting them to play as a team, as unselfishly as any in college bb.



MGK, you see this is the conceit that runs through all these Few threads. How negative is that? What makes you think fresh blood, see Tommy, wouldn't build on what Few created and push higher? No doubt Few's contributions have been great but my view is that he is now living off the GU brand more than vice versa. He has rested on his oars, Literally and figuratively, the past half decade. It happens, leaders get complacent. To say fearfully that no one can possibly do better is just wrong, IMO. If you need a worthwhile example of a relative mid major that has continued to prosper through myriad coaching changes, I give you Xavier, whose post season record is the envy of all MMs save for maybe Butler.


Ps, GU and Few have had their share of selfish players. This years unit was an incredibly unselfish one, I will give you that.

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 11:47 AM
Yeah it's really heck having four seasons vs. one. and affordable living and life and, did I mention, even our cute little basketball team was number one in the nation recently. the name is GONEZAWGA !

anyone, in fairness, here's a comparison randomly selected for genuine effect.

http://www.complex.com/city-guide/2013/05/10-cheap-cities-to-move-to-after-college/spokane-wa

vs. San Diego:

http://www.theawl.com/2013/01/what-became-of-san-diegos-newspapers

p.s. I'd throw in the pension plan for laughs. I think it's up to $3B in the red by now. But I may have overestimated by $100k or so.



Gam, who cares about the pension plan when it's 72 and sunny every day, Gam. Look I didn't move here from the Big Apple for the culture, and I haven't been disappointed. It's not the weather its the climate. You must visit anytime.

530ZAG
05-22-2013, 11:50 AM
Jazz-- we understand you and 530 may very well be the same poster.

The "reality" you both bring is the reminder of the lack of 5* top 25 players on the roster and because of this the lack of a final 4/NT.

Help those of us that are not as forward thinking as you to understand, how many coaches would be bringing all this talent that is out there to Spokane (although Spokane does have its advantages).

Even a Pac12 school to the south of us has issues getting top talent to go there-- so we really can't base it on the conference.

Few takes 2, 3 star and 4 star players and gets a #1 ranking and a # 1 dance seed --gets to the dance each year-- multiple sweet 16's-- not bad for a little school in Spokane, Wa.

I can't for the life of me understand how you force yourselves to follow such a "terrible" program when just across the state is a program that gets top 30 recruiting classes regularly, has multiple first round picks on the roster and they are looking for fair weather fans just like you to add to the legacy that is the UW.

Go Zags.

Zagdawg, I really thought we were having a thoughtful discussion. To insinuate that I'm posting as two different people is unfortunate. I wouldn't ever do that. I'm sorry you are so narrow-minded to imagine that someone might actually agree with my train of thought. Some of us think for ourselves. I know I'm in the land of Few lemmings, but I thought all arguments would be welcomed. Guess not. Trust me that I'm confident that I can outwit you with strong arguments, no alias posters are necessary.

Since you're so blinded by your own argument, I'll remind you that I never once said anything about Few and gaining recruits or players transferring...you've now mentioned that twice. If you want to argue with me, try to stick to relevant material, ok?

My original point was that Few lacks the poise/skill/disposition to take the recruits we get (which I have never said I had a problem with) and take them to their highest potential. I'm not here to bash everything about Few, he's definitely been impactful and has helped grow the program as well as individual players. However, I don't think he posseses the skill to take the players to their greatest heights like the other coaches on the original list can. The team has regularly underachieved in the tournament with different team strengths and lineups. Who exactly should shoulder the criticism for that?

I never said the sky was falling or that GU was a 'terrible' program. In fact, I've said the exact opposite. I expect much more out of GU, and I don't marginalize the program as a 'little school in Spokane.' I see them as a rising power and treat them as such. To take the next step, GU will need a coach who can get the absolute most out of each player, since we won't always get the best recruits (your words, not mine). I don't feel that Few does this, and I feel that his in-game coaching leaves something to be desired. We have routinely lost games where Few has refused to adjust strategy to try and turn the tide and battle back (See examples from previous posts). For some odd reason, we continue to attack anyone who wants to promote change for the better within the program. Apparently most Zag fans on these boards would rather stick with the status quo, get bounced early in the tourney, and talk about how we had some good runs years ago. Sorry I'm not sorry, I think GU and GU fans should hope for better results than that.

As for your last pargraph, it's so off base I can't even argue with it...so congrats?

Somehow you took my desire for GU's program to continue to grow and achieve greater success, and decided I was a fairweather fan who should root for UW?!?! Yikes, please tell me you didn't graduate from Gonzaga. That would really ruin my day.

maynard g krebs
05-22-2013, 12:07 PM
To say fearfully that no one can possibly do better is just wrong, IMO.

Didn't say no one can possibly do better. Just said chances are that it's likely. Seems to me like a rational, logical statement rather than a fearful one. Tommy Lloyd could turn out to be the next Brad Stevens or Shaka Smart. But it's a stretch to say it's better than 50/50 that would be the case, unless you have a really good crystal ball.

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 12:11 PM
Didn't say no one can possibly do better. Just said chances are that it's likely. Seems to me like a rational, logical statement rather than a fearful one. Tommy Lloyd could turn out to be the next Brad Stevens or Shaka Smart. But it's a stretch to say it's better than 50/50 that would be the case, unless you have a really good crystal ball.

So you are saying the success has been Fews rather than Gonzagas and as such is not transferable to a new coach? I argue the opposite now. Few is living off the Zags brand (yes, which he helped build) rather than GU prospering from Few's performance. Guess we just disagree.

maineblackbear
05-22-2013, 12:31 PM
not sure where I stand on this debate. For sure, Few has been outcoached badly at times. The Texas Tech nightmare sticks out to me.

I think Few is getting to be a better coach. He is not as loyal to upperclassmen as he used to be (starting Pangos and Bell as true frosh a perfect example of that) and his adjustments in the game seem to be better. (although with the team he had this year . . .)

I don't blame him for Wichita State, either. Sheesh, WSU crushed a decent Pitt team and then did not miss a shot for over seven minutes while our best defender, Bell, was hurt. How is that on Few? Any one of those three pointers go awry and its only a two point game not a five point game in the last minute....

Anyway.

I am going to simply say loud and clear: I have no idea how good a coach Mark Few is. He is clearly a very very good one, because, after all, you are your record, to a certain extent, despite caveats about WCC etc--after all, his winning percentage in February/March is every bit as good as anyone else's.

And, I think he is getting better.

I do think there is data to suggest in a tight game he tends to get a little tight himself, the team takes on a bit of the coach's attitude, and that is on Few.

I still think of him as a young-ish coach. When he is 60 we will better be able to judge him, as he is now going to have to deal with a program that will more likely have more ebbs and flows in the next couple of years than he has had for the last ten.

But I am not sure that there is enough evidence in any direction to say that Few is a god or that he will limit the heights Gonzaga can reach.

Maybe I just don't understand basketball that well :-)

SteelCityZag
05-22-2013, 12:43 PM
The team has regularly underachieved in the tournament with different team strengths and lineups. Who exactly should shoulder the criticism for that?

Actually, I'm not sure this is true. According to my research, the Zags have played in 34 NCAA tournament games.

In 21 of those games, they have performed at seed expectation (won when they were the lower (better) seed, lost when they were the higher (worse) seed).

In 8 of those games, the Zags have performed ABOVE their seed expectation, defeating teams the committee seeded as lower (better) than them.

In 5 of those games, the Zags have performed BELOW their seed expectation, losing to teams the committee seeded higher (worse) than them.

Looking at these stats, I'm not seeing what you're seeing. In fact, I think the data shows that the Zags played at, or outperform their seed, 29 out of 34 times.

Now, should the coaches take a good long look in the mirror and shore up some other trends. Certainly. I hope they do and I think they will. Should we be looking to dump coaches based on NCAA tournament success or lack thereof? I don't think so.

cjm720
05-22-2013, 12:51 PM
I hear you, and I wouldn't recommend Ryan or Crean to leave their jobs, but I'm tired of the lack of fire from Few. I don't think he inspires the guys when needed. It's not that I think the guys aren't extremely self-motivated, but sometimes you need your coach to light a fire under you. Just my personal opinion, but I think all of the aforementioned coaches do more with less at their programs.

I don't love the 'they wouldn't be better at GU' argument just because I think they could all settle in, and eventually, the program would take on their personality/coaching style.

The fact remains that we won't replace him, and I'm just bitter about it. I think Few knows his limitations as a coach/motivator and would never risk leaving, underperforming, and getting canned at a school with less patience/higher expectations than GU. So I suppose that leaves me hopelessly disgruntled with our coaching situation for the future.

Maybe Few will develop some fire? Or implement a defensive system that doesn't allow every team to play to their offensive strength? (ex. Wichita State -3's, Illinois - B Paul dominating the ball, too many others to count over many years). I guess anything is possible, but I doubt it.

I love the Zags, and it kills me to not have a stone-cold killer to lead the program. With Few, we will never reach our full potential.

Rant over.

The grass is always greener on the other side. I was in a bit of agreement with you in regard to his coaching demeanor, then you went off the deep end. All I need to hear is the respect spewed of Few from other high level coaches that you'd love to replace him with. The grass is always greener....

GoZags
05-22-2013, 12:56 PM
not sure where I stand on this debate. For sure, Few has been outcoached badly at times. The Texas Tech nightmare sticks out to me.

I think Few is getting to be a better coach. He is not as loyal to upperclassmen as he used to be (starting Pangos and Bell as true frosh a perfect example of that) and his adjustments in the game seem to be better. (although with the team he had this year . . .)

I don't blame him for Wichita State, either. Sheesh, WSU crushed a decent Pitt team and then did not miss a shot for over seven minutes while our best defender, Bell, was hurt. How is that on Few? Any one of those three pointers go awry and its only a two point game not a five point game in the last minute....

Anyway.

I am going to simply say loud and clear: I have no idea how good a coach Mark Few is. He is clearly a very very good one, because, after all, you are your record, to a certain extent, despite caveats about WCC etc--after all, his winning percentage in February/March is every bit as good as anyone else's.

And, I think he is getting better.

I do think there is data to suggest in a tight game he tends to get a little tight himself, the team takes on a bit of the coach's attitude, and that is on Few.

I still think of him as a young-ish coach. When he is 60 we will better be able to judge him, as he is now going to have to deal with a program that will more likely have more ebbs and flows in the next couple of years than he has had for the last ten.

But I am not sure that there is enough evidence in any direction to say that Few is a god or that he will limit the heights Gonzaga can reach.

Maybe I just don't understand basketball that well :-)

I would say that Ronny going 3-9 from the free throw line including missing a) the front end of a 1 and 1 in the last minute as well as b) a late 0-2 when fouled while shooting had a great deal to do with Bobby Knight "outcoaching" Mark Few in that painful 2 point loss.

DixieZag
05-22-2013, 12:58 PM
Good lord Jazz. "Living off the Gonzaga brand" - "resting on his laurels". You DO realize that GU just came off its most successful regular season ever, with a one ranking and a one seed?

Or does one game against a team that hit 14 threes, God knows how many in a row at the end and one that also beat Ohio State to get to the final four wash away all of that?

You are so obviously angry and disdainful of the staff that I wonder why you even bother to follow the team?

BTW - the Few "acolytes" have all readily acknowledged the weaknesses of Few's coaching, hard to see how believing that he should not be fired and that he IS successful overall makes one a blind acolyte. If that is so, perhaps one can also be a blind in the opposite way.

Angelo Roncalli
05-22-2013, 01:00 PM
As for your last pargraph, it's so off base I can't even argue with it...so congrats?

Somehow you took my desire for GU's program to continue to grow and achieve greater success, and decided I was a fairweather fan who should root for UW?!?! Yikes, please tell me you didn't graduate from Gonzaga. That would really ruin my day.

The implication that you graduated from Gonzaga has already severely damaged the quality of my day.

From which school of study were you awarded your degree in condescension?

BTB
05-22-2013, 01:01 PM
Actually, I'm not sure this is true. According to my research, the Zags have played in 34 NCAA tournament games.

In 21 of those games, they have performed at seed expectation (won when they were the lower (better) seed, lost when they were the higher (worse) seed).

In 8 of those games, the Zags have performed ABOVE their seed expectation, defeating teams the committee seeded as lower (better) than them.

In 5 of those games, the Zags have performed BELOW their seed expectation, losing to teams the committee seeded higher (worse) than them.

Looking at these stats, I'm not seeing what you're seeing. In fact, I think the data shows that the Zags played at, or outperform their seed, 29 out of 34 times.

Now, should the coaches take a good long look in the mirror and shore up some other trends. Certainly. I hope they do and I think they will. Should we be looking to dump coaches based on NCAA tournament success or lack thereof? I don't think so.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

mgadfly
05-22-2013, 01:10 PM
Um, isnt acquiring talent a principal function of the head coach?

Hasn't Few acquired the best talent of any of the head coaches Gonzaga has ever had?

KStyles
05-22-2013, 01:12 PM
In 5 of those games, the Zags have performed BELOW their seed expectation, losing to teams the committee seeded higher (worse) than them.

Looking at these stats, I'm not seeing what you're seeing. In fact, I think the data shows that the Zags played at, or outperform their seed, 29 out of 34 times.
.

Just guessing here, but part of it may be that the memory of early (99-01) tournament successes has been overtaken a bit by the more recent performances at par or below. If you look at it by game, Gonzaga performed at seed 1 game this year, and underachieved in the second game. That'd only be 50% of games underachieving, but I'd guess most would classify the 2013 tournament as a whole as an underachievement.

So, if you look at overall tourney performances (which I bet most people do in their minds rather than game-by-game), since 2003 GU has underachieved 4 years, overachieved once (2011), and performed at par the other 5. Still not a bad track record, especially in the grand scheme of things (a couple hundred other teams don't even make the tourney). I'd speculate that one overachievement in the past 10 years may be where some of the "GU hasn't done anything spectacular lately in the tourney" thoughts are coming from.

http://i.imgur.com/0KrTGbD.gif

DixieZag
05-22-2013, 01:16 PM
At the risk of giving too much attention to this post, I think it is important to add.

Xavier is the envy of mid majors for their march record, Jazz?

Having a team that decides to throw punches and a bench clearing brawl with their rival thus sending the team into a mid-season death slide would sure as hell off-set a whole lot of march wins in my book. What if Kelly cold cocked someone at BYU - got suspended for a ton of games, we lost 2 or 3 more but went to the elite 8 - a better season? No. Not in my mind.

mgadfly
05-22-2013, 01:17 PM
At some point the free-thinking and liberated anti-Mark Few fanatics, if they are as intellectually honest as they paint themselves, have to give credit to his accomplishments.

To argue someone would be better than 80%.
Would be better at getting recruits to come to Spokane.
Would be better at winning conference championships.
Would be better at making the tournament.
Would be better at performing to/slightly above seed in the tourney.
Would be better at improving the GU brand.
Would be better at maintaining the integrity and values of GU's basketball program...

Is just insane speculation. Sure, its possible, but there are a thousand ways such a move hurts more than helps. We understand some don't like Mark Few (not enough fire, not demonstrative enough, hasn't won as many national championships as Calipari, doesn't play the right type of basketball), but in the objective, measurable, tangible accomplishments list he outstrips virtually every one of his peers in similar circumstances. That's just the facts jack.

sittingon50
05-22-2013, 01:18 PM
WARNING in the thread title!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

DixieZag
05-22-2013, 01:21 PM
WARNING in the thread title!!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

How did you know??? Can you help me with some lotto numbers? PM me, thanks.

bigblahla
05-22-2013, 01:29 PM
Mark Few's limitations as a coach in my book are his greatest strengths as a man.

He is brutally honest and tends not to indulge in hyperbole.

Unfortunately this does not lead to being a good recruiter as initially the sizzle is more important than substance. Coach doesn't do sizzle.

Recruiting is a dog and pony show where sizzle is needed to keep young high school seniors attention from waning until the relationship is strong enough to add the substance.

When your head coach is not considered a people person or a strong motivator or a players coach well....you have recruiting results like we have been seeing.

If you don't include foreign players or transfers our success rate in recruiting US high school seniors is unexplainable considering our TV exposure, success and national reputation as a program. Other than Heytfelt, Bouldin, Daye, Dower and GBJ we haven't had much success in recruiting good to great high school seniors. I consider Stepp and Mallon to early in the run to count although both had opportunities other than GU. Gray and Pendo were born Zags or so it seemed. Raivio had a couple other mid-major offers and no one wanted Ammo.

Coach and staff have done wonders with what they've had but recruiting doesn't seem to be Coach Few's strong suit.

I'm hoping the addition of former player Brian Michaelson as a coach might have a Tommy like effect on US high school seniors. If anybody can sell the sizzle of Gonzaga it's Brian.

Just my opinion

Go!! Zags!!!

SamwiseTheZag
05-22-2013, 01:42 PM
I find it to be quite amusing that within the same thread, Jazz complains about Mark Fews recruiting shortcomings and argues that San Diego is nicer than Spokane. Have you been drinking again?

cjm720
05-22-2013, 01:57 PM
Mark Few's limitations as a coach in my book are his greatest strengths as a man.

He is brutally honest and tends not to indulge in hyperbole.

Unfortunately this does not lead to being a good recruiter as initially the sizzle is more important than substance. Coach doesn't do sizzle.

Recruiting is a dog and pony show where sizzle is needed to keep young high school seniors attention from waning until the relationship is strong enough to add the substance.

When your head coach is not considered a people person or a strong motivator or a players coach well....you have recruiting results like we have been seeing.

If you don't include foreign players or transfers our success rate in recruiting US high school seniors is unexplainable considering our TV exposure, success and national reputation as a program. Other than Heytfelt, Bouldin, Daye, Dower and GBJ we haven't had much success in recruiting good to great high school seniors. I consider Stepp and Mallon to early in the run to count although both had opportunities other than GU. Gray and Pendo were born Zags or so it seemed. Raivio had a couple other mid-major offers and no one wanted Ammo.

Coach and staff have done wonders with what they've had but recruiting doesn't seem to be Coach Few's strong suit.

I'm hoping the addition of former player Brian Michaelson as a coach might have a Tommy like effect on US high school seniors. If anybody can sell the sizzle of Gonzaga it's Brian.

Just my opinion

Go!! Zags!!!

So you're faulting Few for being himself. Got it.

I'll add that, and this will likely be controversial, that recruiting kids to Spokane is very difficult due to not only geography but also because the lack of diversity. The fact that GU is a very white school probably scares off some kids off that aren't used to that environment.

We have a lot stacked against us in terms of recruiting and we have somehow stayed relevant. If that's not a testament to the coach, I'm not sure what would be.

BTB
05-22-2013, 02:26 PM
So you're faulting Few for being himself. Got it.

I'll add that, and this will likely be controversial, that recruiting kids to Spokane is very difficult due to not only geography but also because the lack of diversity. The fact that GU is a very white school probably scares off some kids off that aren't used to that environment.

We have a lot stacked against us in terms of recruiting and we have somehow stayed relevant. If that's not a testament to the coach, I'm not sure what would be.

I don't think he was faulting Few at all. He acknowledged Few has faults, but also said that those are why he is a great man. Sounded more like a compliment to me.

maynard g krebs
05-22-2013, 03:15 PM
So you are saying the success has been Fews rather than Gonzagas and as such is not transferable to a new coach? I argue the opposite now. Few is living off the Zags brand (yes, which he helped build) rather than GU prospering from Few's performance. Guess we just disagree.

No. I am saying anything is possible, but given location, size, budget, and conference affiliation etc, the likelihood of another coach lifting the program to the level of the few handfuls of schools that have done better in the last decade and a half is relatively low. Tommy Lloyd could be that guy. Or not. Nobody will know till he gets a chance to do it.

I actually would like to see a team that plays more like the freewheeling style of the Monson teams personally. But if it was so easy, Monson would be doing it at Long Beach by now. He had a pretty good team in 2012, but they graduated and the program slipped some.

maynard g krebs
05-22-2013, 03:29 PM
Unfortunately this does not lead to being a good recruiter as initially the sizzle is more important than substance. Coach doesn't do sizzle.


If you don't include foreign players or transfers our success rate in recruiting US high school seniors is unexplainable considering our TV exposure, success and national reputation as a program.

Three letters: WCC. Most 4 and 5 star prospects won't even consider the Zags simply due to the league. During prime time in January and Feb, the Zags are relegated to a backwater conference. Given that fact, it is remarkable that they are recruiting on the level of most BCS schools at all.

They have to target maybe a handful or 2 of the top 100 players each year to get a sniff, kids with a high IQ/feel for the game who grew up appreciating how the Zags play. Given all this, I think the level of recruiting is pretty remarkable.

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 03:41 PM
[QUOTE=DixieZag;913841]Good lord Jazz. "Living off the Gonzaga brand" - "resting on his laurels". You DO realize that GU just came off its most successful regular season ever, with a one ranking and a one seed?

Or does one game against a team that hit 14 threes, God knows how many in a row at the end and one that also beat Ohio State to get to the final four wash away all of that?

You are so obviously angry and disdainful of the staff that I wonder why you even bother to follow the team?

Dixie, I am a Gonzaga fan, period. That's immutable. I am not a fan of whoever the coach might be. I am a Yankee fan, too and I found plenty of faults with Torre and now Girardi. And they both actually won championships. Why is that type of loyalty so hard for many here to fathom. Gonzaga is an idea, a spirit, an incredible story as a school and program. Sure, hundreds of flesh and blood people have helped make it such. More will in the future. There is room to praise and find fault with any of them. None, not a single one, is irreplaceable.

bballbeachbum
05-22-2013, 04:40 PM
Three letters: WCC. Most 4 and 5 star prospects won't even consider the Zags simply due to the league. During prime time in January and Feb, the Zags are relegated to a backwater conference. Given that fact, it is remarkable that they are recruiting on the level of most BCS schools at all.

They have to target maybe a handful or 2 of the top 100 players each year to get a sniff, kids with a high IQ/feel for the game who grew up appreciating how the Zags play. Given all this, I think the level of recruiting is pretty remarkable.

it is. and the creativity to go abroad to fill needs, size needs in particular, and appeal to those personalities and to actively search them out has been an excellent counter. Look at what fellow WCCer Bennett has done with his Australian pipeline to fill the talent void at SMC, for example.

on recruiting to Spokane, I wanted to move there a dozen years ago but my wife ultimately said no :) for all its beauty it's also its own qualifier/disqualifier for recruits too imo, not a bad thing

Ebay
05-22-2013, 04:57 PM
Few takes 2, 3 star and 4 star players and gets a #1 ranking and a # 1 dance seed --gets to the dance each year-- multiple sweet 16's-- not bad for a little school in Spokane, Wa.


“The arrogance of success is to think that what we did yesterday is good enough for tomorrow.”
― William Pollard

The complacency of most fans on this board frustrates me. 530Zag and Jazz make sound points. Not bad for a little school, Zagdawg? Really? We're not the Cinderella story anymore, no matter how badly some posters think we still are.

bballbeachbum
05-22-2013, 05:21 PM
[QUOTE=DixieZag;913841]Good lord Jazz. "Living off the Gonzaga brand" - "resting on his laurels". You DO realize that GU just came off its most successful regular season ever, with a one ranking and a one seed?

Or does one game against a team that hit 14 threes, God knows how many in a row at the end and one that also beat Ohio State to get to the final four wash away all of that?

You are so obviously angry and disdainful of the staff that I wonder why you even bother to follow the team?

Dixie, I am a Gonzaga fan, period. That's immutable. I am not a fan of whoever the coach might be. I am a Yankee fan, too and I found plenty of faults with Torre and now Girardi. And they both actually won championships. Why is that type of loyalty so hard for many here to fathom. Gonzaga is an idea, a spirit, an incredible story as a school and program. Sure, hundreds of flesh and blood people have helped make it such. More will in the future. There is room to praise and find fault with any of them. None, not a single one, is irreplaceable.

Agreed, room to find both praise and fault in any of them

jazz my friend, you find room for both with Few? :lmao: come on man, you are the lead prosecutor here at the Court of GUBoards against Few and his 'acolytes'--your use of that word made me laugh out loud btw, cheers to that jazz :cheers:

bballbeachbum
05-22-2013, 05:23 PM
“The arrogance of success is to think that what we did yesterday is good enough for tomorrow.”
― William Pollard

The complacency of most fans on this board frustrates me. 530Zag and Jazz make sound points. Not bad for a little school, Zagdawg? Really? We're not the Cinderella story anymore, no matter how badly some posters think we still are.

I don't think there is a soul here who still believes we are a Cinderella story...that take seems strikingly off target to me

Gonzaga has been wearing the target for years and years now and folks know it

530ZAG
05-22-2013, 05:48 PM
I don't think there is a soul here who still believes we are a Cinderella story...that take seems strikingly off target to me

Gonzaga has been wearing the target for years and years now and folks know it

Actually there is 'a soul here' that looks at them like a Cinderella....I know that because they said as much and EBay quoted it!

I am a firm believer in everyone voicing their opinions, and I think a lot of people have made some sound points that contradict my own beliefs. However, I don't understand how you can say 'not a soul here thinks X' when X is shown and cited above. C'mon man!

Vanzagger
05-22-2013, 06:00 PM
Few gets cute because he can. It's cost us in the seeding game multiple times.

No pressure. Excuse U

bballbeachbum
05-22-2013, 06:02 PM
Actually there is 'a soul here' that looks at them like a Cinderella....I know that because they said as much and EBay quoted it!

I am a firm believer in everyone voicing their opinions, and I think a lot of people have made some sound points that contradict my own beliefs. However, I don't understand how you can say 'not a soul here thinks X' when X is shown and cited above. C'mon man!

OK

hardly a soul :)

the Cinderella story has been replaced by the target-on-our-back story for some time here, and nationally. Come on

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 06:05 PM
[QUOTE=jazzdelmar;913870]

Agreed, room to find both praise and fault in any of them

jazz my friend, you find room for both with Few? :lmao: come on man, you are the lead prosecutor here at the Court of GUBoards against Few and his 'acolytes'--your use of that word made me laugh out loud btw, cheers to that jazz :cheers:

BBB, thanks for faint praise. I have thrown many bouquets Few's way through the years. Community, honestly, family most of all, just superior. Why is acolytes a funny word? Disciples better? Paws, serfs, idolaters? You pick one.

bballbeachbum
05-22-2013, 06:11 PM
[QUOTE=bballbeachbum;913881]

BBB, thanks for faint praise. I have thrown many bouquets Few's way through the years. Community, honestly, family most of all, just superior. Why is acolytes a funny word? Disciples better? Paws, serfs, idolaters? You pick one.

faint praise? That's your thing jazz, I was being sincere...you are the lead prosecutor, and You're welcome!

And you already picked the word...acolyte.

cheers again :cheers:

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 06:27 PM
[QUOTE=jazzdelmar;913905]

faint praise? That's your thing jazz, I was being sincere...you are the lead prosecutor, and You're welcome!

And you already picked the word...acolyte.

cheers again :cheers:

I know. Just kidding and trying to throw an Alexander Pope phrase in the mix. As always I appreciate your thoughts and candor.

Zagdawg
05-22-2013, 08:52 PM
You can call it a cinderella story--but believe it or not we are quite a ways from that end of the spectrum.
I would say Few does the best to maximize the potential of the players that come to Spokane, regardless of the number of stars they possess.

Whether of not you and Jazz are the same person-- you both seem to have the same anti-Few attitude and not too much thought going into the argument the you bring to the table (see Steels post for some factual info to help you out)-- but then again when I was your age, I found myself jumping to conclusions without much thought on a rare occasion also. Wisdom comes with time and life experience-- why don't you give yourself a few years to think about it then come let us know what you figured out....... now back to your xbox.


Go Zags

jazzdelmar
05-22-2013, 09:51 PM
I find it to be quite amusing that within the same thread, Jazz complains about Mark Fews recruiting shortcomings and argues that San Diego is nicer than Spokane. Have you been drinking again?

Wha? So u disagree w one, both or neither of those?

BTB
05-22-2013, 10:09 PM
Wha? So u disagree w one, both or neither of those?

He's saying that if San Diego is so much better of a place to live, as you believe, then you can't fault Few for not being able to overcome that recruiting disadvantage.

Personally, if I were a college kid (I am one) and had no ties to Gonzaga and had my choice between UCLA, SDSU, Pepperdine, and Gonzaga the Zags would have a tough time explaining to me why I should go there over any of these schools. And yes, Pepperdine would even have my attention. Who doesn't want to live in Malibu for free and get a free education at the same time.

Zagdawg
05-23-2013, 07:23 AM
But.....California has all the distractions and you get sand in your shorts while laying on the beach all day long (we know from experience that all that sand makes some posters grumpy and very negative all of the time).....not to mention it is going to fall into the ocean any day anyway.

You know what they say---California is a nice place to visit, but it takes a special person to live there.

Kiddwell
05-23-2013, 07:34 AM
We're all disappointed the Zags didn't make the Sweet 16 when many had legit hopes for a Final Four. We're all disappointed that Whozit went to Oregon and Whozit II went to San Diego State.

Gosh, are we disappointed. And when we're disappointed, we vent. Gosh, do we vent.

**The End**

And now a poem:
Bleach Fewie
String beans are greenies,
Lake Washington is locks,
Mark Few's a weenie,
Folks, get yer Clorox.



:]

530ZAG
05-23-2013, 07:40 AM
You can call it a cinderella story--but believe it or not we are quite a ways from that end of the spectrum.
I would say Few does the best to maximize the potential of the players that come to Spokane, regardless of the number of stars they possess.

Whether of not you and Jazz are the same person-- you both seem to have the same anti-Few attitude and not too much thought going into the argument the you bring to the table (see Steels post for some factual info to help you out)-- but then again when I was your age, I found myself jumping to conclusions without much thought on a rare occasion also. Wisdom comes with time and life experience-- why don't you give yourself a few years to think about it then come let us know what you figured out....... now back to your xbox.


Go Zags

I was hoping you wouldn't respond this way, but I can't say I'm surprised based upon your previous posts, Zagdawg. I mean, I get it. You've been beaten handily with stronger, coherent arguments, so you've decided to jump to personal attacks in the hopes that no one would notice your deficient posts.

To be honest, it's not very classy.

As I've stated previously in this thread, others have presented thoughtful arguments that differ from mine that I have found interesting and insightful. However, your posts are nowhere near that category. It's pretty unfortunate that you would assume that I am kid; I assure you that I am not. However, even if I were, how would that have any bearing upon the strength of my arguments? Again, the logic you are employing is weak if not completely baseless.

Feel free to disagree with my arguments, but try to use the wisdom and experience you've gained to conduct yourself in a more professional manner when speaking to others. Personal attacks come off as childish and cowardly.

P.S. I don't play Xbox nor do I have time for it (not that there's anything wrong with those who do), most of my time is devoted to my career or working to wrap up my MBA.

Go Zags!!

Zagdawg
05-23-2013, 10:59 AM
"Beaten handily"? Is this a competion in your mind?

Someone comes out with a little "Fire" -- one of the primary issues you have with Few becasue you don't see him throwing chairs onto the court and you get your feeling hurt.

The Zags not being able to reach their potential under Few is another of your statements that most fans don't agree with and Steel had a great analysis would support most of the fans reasoning.

I am feeling free to disagree with your "arguments" and now your feelings are hurt....really?

Lets agree to disagree, now pull up your big boy pants and drive on-- you will be ok.

Go Zags

MDABE80
05-23-2013, 11:35 AM
You guys..........<eyeroll>...

530ZAG
05-23-2013, 11:41 AM
"Beaten handily"? Is this a competion in your mind?

Someone comes out with a little "Fire" -- one of the primary issues you have with Few becasue you don't see him throwing chairs onto the court and you get your feeling hurt.

The Zags not being able to reach their potential under Few is another of your statements that most fans don't agree with and Steel had a great analysis would support most of the fans reasoning.

I am feeling free to disagree with your "arguments" and now your feelings are hurt....really?

Lets agree to disagree, now pull up your big boy pants and drive on-- you will be ok.

Go Zags


Really? That's what you got from what I said?

I can assure you that my feelings aren't hurt as nothing you said about me is accurate.

I just stated in my last post that I found others' posts interesting even when they differed from my own opinions. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. However, I would hardly call your posts arguments.

Just fyi, stating that I need more wisdom, should become a UW fan, and grow up and go play Xbox are actually not valid arguments regarding Mark Few and the team.

I'm happy to discuss thoughts on the team, that's why I'm here. Like I said my feelings aren't hurt, I just think it's odd/not super classy to bash someone just because you don't agree with them. If you think someone is so off base, then use sound arguments to make your points. Period.

maynard g krebs
05-23-2013, 12:16 PM
I still prefer a good burrito to a plate of tacos. I hope no one is offended by that, as I understand the passion many here have for tacos.

Gonna have to quote Rodney King soon.

Oregonzagnut
05-23-2013, 12:23 PM
I still prefer a good burrito to a plate of tacos. I hope no one is offended by that, as I understand the passion many here have for tacos.

Tis blasphemy? You burrito eater!!! :jk:

However, I wouldn't mind seeing a "Dorito Buritto" at Taco Bell someday. Now theres an idea!! :)

Or even soft taco Dorito/cool ranch shells? MmmmmMmmmm. :drool:

jazzdelmar
05-23-2013, 12:25 PM
Really? That's what you got from what I said?

I can assure you that my feelings aren't hurt as nothing you said about me is accurate.
I'm happy to discuss thoughts on the team, that's why I'm here. Like I said my feelings aren't hurt, I just think it's odd/not super classy to bash someone just because you don't agree with them. If you think someone is so off base, then use sound arguments to make your points. Period.


Give it up, 530. The Few zombies are entrenched. All youre gonna get is personal invective if you persist. Quite unpleasant, take it from me. Time will tell....though if its any comfort, I generally agree w all your points. Oh, yea, im the guy some of them say you are as well.....

Zagdawg
05-23-2013, 12:26 PM
Taco Bell-- Taco Time or Del Taco?

I like Taco Time......