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View Full Version : Ruh-Roh. Davis to SDSU



BobZag
05-15-2013, 09:34 AM
Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanCBS 2m Tulane transfer Josh Davis has committed to San Diego State.

cjm720
05-15-2013, 09:38 AM
Fisher's done a heckuva job down there...would love to schedule a series with them. Good luck to Josh...now letting the #####ing begin :)

meadgrad02
05-15-2013, 09:42 AM
We have major problems on the frontline this year...

CDC84
05-15-2013, 09:42 AM
Back to drawing board.

I still expect Gonzaga to be a top 25 team at some point next season. But it is hard to imagine them grabbing a player along the lines of Davis at this point. It's going to put a limit on next year's team.

BobZag
05-15-2013, 09:45 AM
Had a nagging feeling Few just wouldn't be able to get this guy on campus quick enough after his visit to SDSU. Cannot fault his decision. Just needed a visit to have a chance.

Booo hooo, this isn't fair! *sob* *sniff*

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 09:46 AM
Had a nagging feeling Few just wouldn't be able to get this guy on campus quick enough after his visit to SDSU. Cannot fault his decision. Just needed a visit to have a chance.

Booo hooo, this isn't fair! *sob* *sniff*

72 and sunny today....same through New Years Day



Tulane transfer Josh Davis picks San Diego State
May 15, 2013 1:43 pm ET

San Diego State has landed Tulane transfer Josh Davis.

Davis, a 6-foot-8 senior forward who averaged 17.6 points and 10.7 rebounds last season, will be eligible to play this season for the Aztecs.

"I felt comfortable with the staff and the system fits me," Davis told CBSSports.com on Wednesday while on a visit to San Diego State.

Davis was also set to visit Gonzaga and Ohio State.

The Aztecs also sold Davis on the comparison to former San Diego State star Kawhi Leonard, who is long and athletic and also bears a facial resemblance as well.

"I've heard that plenty," Davis admitted. "Even before they started recruiting me."

Oregonzagnut
05-15-2013, 10:00 AM
Seriously, I don't.

SDSt was 9-7 (4th place) in Mountain West.

What do the Aztecs have that we don't? In this instance, I think it did come down to beaches, weather, school size and a slightly weaker front court next year for the Aztecs. They are a guard heavy team and he will fit in immediately with little competition to be a starter.

Oh well, if our starters can spend the summer months working together to become a single tight knit unit, Gonzaga will have another huge season!

CDC84
05-15-2013, 10:04 AM
The one thing that we cannot discount is the education thing. SDSU might have some unique grad school program that Gonzaga doesn't have. This is an important part of the decision making process for a grad transfer. More went into this than just basketball.

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 10:05 AM
Seriously, I don't.

SDSt was 9-7 (4th place) in Mountain West.

What do the Aztecs have that we don't? In this instance, I think it did come down to beaches, weather, school size and a slightly weaker front court next year for the Aztecs. They are a guard heavy team and he will fit in immediately with little competition to be a starter.

Oh well, if our starters can spend the summer months working together to become a single tight knit unit, Gonzaga will have another huge season!



Why? The kid said it, comfortable w staff, good system and the Kawhi Leonard model. He did play in Nola so weather helped some. And of course the MWC.

cjm720
05-15-2013, 10:06 AM
OZN, Fisher's a national championship coach that has turned SDSU around in short time. It's no Gonzaga, IMO, but it's a program on the rise that will give Davis some good exposure to get into the NBA. I don't think he could have made a bad choice between his final 3.

Blitzing-Zag
05-15-2013, 10:07 AM
Man.....this is turning out to be a very rough off-season.

GonzagasaurusFlex
05-15-2013, 10:08 AM
Hopefully Sam and the Big Pole are well aware of the the staff's vote of no confidence for next year's post players on this team. Maybe they'll take it out on the opposition all season long, and maybe just maybe we play SDSU in the Big Dance!

LongIslandZagFan
05-15-2013, 10:13 AM
Hopefully Sam and the Big Pole are well aware of the the staff's vote of no confidence for next year's post players on this team. Maybe they'll take it out on the opposition all season long, and maybe just maybe we play SDSU in the Big Dance!

Huh? There was no such vote of no-confidence. It is called being outrageously thin. One injury and the team is in deep deep trouble.

jimmy b
05-15-2013, 10:17 AM
Seriously, I don't.

SDSt was 9-7 (4th place) in Mountain West.

What do the Aztecs have that we don't? In this instance, I think it did come down to beaches, weather, school size and a slightly weaker front court next year for the Aztecs. They are a guard heavy team and he will fit in immediately with little competition to be a starter.

Oh well, if our starters can spend the summer months working together to become a single tight knit unit, Gonzaga will have another huge season!

Sorry, but talent depth not there, at least up front, to have a huge season.

SDSU has plenty to sell. They pack in the fans and have great support. Also, like Oregon, they can sell momentum and being a program on the upswing though disrespected (i.e. Oregon's seeding) kind of like GU a decade ago. Sorry to say, but due to our tourney flameouts, I don't think the program is viewed as on the improve anymore.

Bummed Davis didn't choose GU. He was the guy I wanted all along. I think he is better than JM and MM. Ken Pom (I asked his opinion) and others I trust agreed on Davis. I expect him to do well for the Aztecs.

Also, can see the Leonard comparisons, though it was obvious how talented Leonard was from early on, not sure if Davis can ever get there. Either way, that had to be an interesting hook for him

Zag 77
05-15-2013, 10:19 AM
THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING !

I guess the next step is to hold open tryouts next fall. Put up some flyers around Catherine-Monica for freshmen to show up.

Oregonzagnut
05-15-2013, 10:20 AM
OZN, Fisher's a national championship coach that has turned SDSU around in short time. It's no Gonzaga, IMO, but it's a program on the rise that will give Davis some good exposure to get into the NBA. I don't think he could have made a bad choice between his final 3.

Yes, I know, but in my jaded opinion, he is wrong. :)

But what do I know. Maybe his short term presence would hurt us in the long run. We have seen less than stellar play from transfers and a "one and doner" may not help at all for 2014 and on.

Gotta believe it is for the better

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 10:20 AM
Sorry, but talent depth not there, at least up front, to have a huge season.

SDSU has plenty to sell. They pack in the fans and have great support. Also, like Oregon, they can sell momentum and being a program on the upswing though disrespected (i.e. Oregon's seeding) kind of like GU a decade ago. Sorry to say, but due to our tourney flameouts, I don't think the program is viewed as on the improve anymore.

Bummed Davis didn't choose GU. He was the guy I wanted all along. I think he is better than JM and MM. Ken Pom (I asked his opinion) and others I trust agreed on Davis. I expect him to do well for the Aztecs.

Also, can see the Leonard comparisons, though it was obvious how talented Leonard was from early on, not sure if Davis can ever get there. Either way, that had to be an interesting hook for him


good call my fellow North County rez (what a day out, huh?)....

one and done in Maui? getting to the 2d round there, now that will be an achievement...

DixieZag
05-15-2013, 10:22 AM
Huh? There was no such vote of no-confidence. It is called being outrageously thin. One injury and the team is in deep deep trouble.

Yep.

They may have initially seen it as "no confidence" which, I have no doubt, was immediately rectified by the staff as not at all about that. Both are pretty damn smart and handle themselves well, I have faith that they "get it."

Ummmm, getting awfully late in the year to patch this up, I guess a euro could pop out of the hat that has produced before, but - short of that, prolly best to get the guys who will be here to realize the approach next year will be way different.

Hope the summer is dedicated to installing the long bombing, hard running, defensive swarming and board crashing approach we'll need. Onus is on the coaches. They are going to (and should) feel a little more of the heat of expectation.

Sh*t. I mean shoot, we gotta be sharp shooters

hooter73
05-15-2013, 10:23 AM
Huh? There was no such vote of no-confidence. It is called being outrageously thin. One injury and the team is in deep deep trouble.

exactly. I think everyone knows we needed one more ready to go just for rest/foul issues, but an injury puts us with the two unproven freshmen who are(were) slated to redshirt. Ah well. Staff has always figured it out before, they will again.

deathchina
05-15-2013, 10:26 AM
When was the last time we had a major injury on a squad?

We are long long overdue.

An underrated aspect of "the streak" is our team has been RIDICULOUSLY lucky when it comes to injuries.

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 10:29 AM
bound to happen. nearly every team -- ok, not cuse or mich state, several others -- has them. a down year, maybe 2. we are spoiled (yes, i said it).....still, the test is how fast few et al pull out of the downswing.....focus on 2014 now and probably just golf claps next year.......

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 10:37 AM
SDSU basketball lands biggie: Josh Davis

By Mark Zeigler11:13 a.m.May 15, 2013

That void left by Jamaal Franklin, who led San Diego State in points, rebounds, assists and steals last season? It just got filled.

Tulane transfer Josh Davis visited SDSU over the past two days and orally committed to the Aztecs on Wednesday morning shortly before leaving for the airport. As a fifth-year graduate student – Davis graduates from Tulane on Saturday with a degree in sociology – the 6-foot-8 forward has one year of eligibility remaining but does not have to sit out a season.

That trip to Gonzaga, which he was also considering? Cancelled.

“I like the coaching staff,” Davis said. “I like the style of play – long, athletic players, very versatile. This was my first trip, and I just felt comfortable here.”

It represents another major recruiting coup for SDSU, which last week landed Arizona transfer and Hoover High alum Angelo Chol. Some consider Davis – a first team all-Conference USA selection after averaging 17.6 points and 10.7 rebounds for a 20-win Tulane team – the nation’s best available incoming player who is eligible for the 2013-14 season.

“A whole bunch of schools called me,” Davis said.

How many?

“I can’t even tell you,” he said. “Too many.”

Among those linked to him in some capacity this spring: Gonzaga, Ohio State, Illinois, Iowa State, Minnesota, Pittsburgh and Arizona.

Davis attended Athens Drive High in Raleigh, N.C., then spent his freshman year two miles away at North Carolina State. Wanting a larger role, he transferred to Tulane and played two seasons after sitting out one.

That left him with several options: return to Tulane for his final season, turn pro or transfer elsewhere without having to sit out.

“I sat down with my family and analyzed it,” Davis said. “We felt it would be better long term to play somewhere else next season instead of short term playing pro now.”

The Aztecs coaches didn’t have to look far to see tape of Davis. He faced USD in each of the last two seasons, averaging 16.5 points and 11.5 rebounds in 35.5 minutes against the Toreros.

Technically, he’s a small forward. But what attracted him to SDSU was Coach Steve Fisher’s history of developing players of his build – long, wiry, athletic, versatile. He is particularly effective driving from the wing and getting to the rim.

“I never really consider myself to have an actual position,” Davis said. “I’m just a basketball player. I can defend any position 1 through 4. I even played some 5 (center) at Tulane.”

© Copyright 2013 The San Diego Union-Tribune, LLC. An MLIM LLC Company. All rights reserved.

CDC84
05-15-2013, 10:48 AM
And of course the MWC.

Conference affiliation had very little to do with this decision.

The MWC is still not considered a power conference in basketball terms. Its games are resigned to CBS Sports Network, and its teams receive very little national exposure. With the exception of maybe UNLV, not a single team from that league has the national brand name recognition of Gonzaga except maybe UNLV. GU's rigorous non-league sked and all their ESPN games are way more important to a recruit than the "prestige" of playing in the MWC.

I can buy some of the other reasons cited for his school choice, but not the MWC thing. That league was one of most overrated leagues in the past 20 years of college basketball last season.

Ekrub
05-15-2013, 11:30 AM
Angel, Karno, and Dower will do just fine. A little more guard centered team and maybe (fingers crossed) we will see GBJ break out of his shell. The cupboard is not bare. Lots of talent on this team, just get to the tourney baby

Vanzagger
05-15-2013, 11:31 AM
We are in great shape next year. Karno will play a ton and be gone for the NBA.

Say it together.... We are loaded.


Now what are we going to to with it. If we get cute and squander it away does the window finally slam shut?

Can Tommy save us again?

titopoet
05-15-2013, 11:39 AM
Means big minutes for Sam and Karno with spot duty for the freshman bigs and running one big with two wings and two guards. Karno can be a double double machine now, improve those freethrows young man and the future is yours.

DixieZag
05-15-2013, 11:53 AM
good call my fellow North County rez (what a day out, huh?)....

one and done in Maui? getting to the 2d round there, now that will be an achievement...

Arkansas
Baylor
California
Dayton
Gonzaga
Minnesota
Syracuse
Chaminade

Even with the squad we know is coming back, at least half of those teams likely can't match the talented players returning. So, saying the second round would be an "achievement" before you even know who we are playing?

I get that there will be a serious drop off next year and it should be accepted. But, the majority of your posts (not all) seem less about expectations and more about stating the worst scenarios as an outlet for anger at something. . .

You know a lot of basketball but more and more it seems to take a backseat to venting and baiting. Frustration with past underachievement is very fair, anger repeated in nearly every post about it?

Zagcity
05-15-2013, 11:54 AM
Man.....this is turning out to be a very rough off-season.

The fat lady hasn't sung, Mark Few and the assistants will be resourceful. He didn't stay close to home for nothing. ;)

sittingon50
05-15-2013, 12:02 PM
& no one has used the word

DOOMED?

This board is slipping off to oblivion as well!!

ZagLawGrad
05-15-2013, 12:28 PM
That one and done this year will haunt the Zags for some time, IMO.

Zippyzaggy
05-15-2013, 12:49 PM
I thought we had "arrived", with big-time transfers Moser & Davis looking seriously at us and thought we might get BOTH ........Nah.

CaliforniaZaggin'
05-15-2013, 12:52 PM
Like Jay-Z says, on to the next one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM1RChZk1EU).

DixieZag
05-15-2013, 12:59 PM
I thought we had "arrived", with big-time transfers Moser & Davis looking seriously at us and thought we might get BOTH ........Nah.

Tough to "get" a guy that commits to the first place he visits. It sounds like bad luck more than a fail.

Really can't say he chose SDSU "over" Gonzaga when he made his choice without seeing the place or talking to the staff and players.

DixieZag
05-15-2013, 01:03 PM
& no one has used the word

DOOMED?

This board is slipping off to oblivion as well!!

Perhaps no one has used the word "doom" b/c it doesn't sufficiently convey how much some have embraced the horror.

Just kidding, let's just say that GU isn't "doomed" but sure made having a great season next year far more heroic and glorious. How 'bout that for half full.

Doomed. There, covered.

Zippyzaggy
05-15-2013, 01:18 PM
Whatever will we do next season with a nucleus of "the next Steve Nash" (Pangos), Wa State Gatorade POY(Bell), two time Idaho Gatorade POY (Dranginis). Louisville transfer (Nunez), and future NBA'er first rounder (Karno)?

Move over Pepperdine, you'll be having company at the bottom of the WCC.

Baaaaahaahahahahahaha, sniff, sniff, the tears are rolling.......

cjm720
05-15-2013, 01:23 PM
Whatever will we do next season with a nucleus of "the next Steve Nash" (Pangos), Wa State Gatorade POY(Bell), two time Idaho Gatorade POY (Dranginis). Louisville transfer (Nunez), and future NBA'er first rounder (Karno)?

Move over Pepperdine, you'll be having company at the bottom of the WCC.

Baaaaahaahahahahahaha, sniff, sniff, the tears are rolling.......

Your take of the program is overwhelming. You really have a feel for how things work and will go down....lol

ZagZombie
05-15-2013, 01:24 PM
So with all this uncertainty about the frontcourt are we still going to redshirt Edwards? Or do we keep him available for his frosh year as backup, then redshirt him sophmore year to help grow & develop his game, also in the hopes that we land some top bigs in 2014?

Bogozags
05-15-2013, 01:46 PM
Why? The kid said it, comfortable w staff, good system and the Kawhi Leonard model. He did play in Nola so weather helped some. And of course the MWC.

I don't believe a school's record has that much of an impact in a recruit's decision. SDSU has had very good success in recruiting and have had good success in the NBA draft as well. KL is a starter for SA and they have a better than average chance of getting to the NBA finals.

SDSU will run up and down the court, around the court, in and out of tunnels each and every game. Davis should have a tremendous impact on their program next year. Fisher has done a really good job these past three-four years.

Also, San Diego has the best weather on the west coast and a nice Zoo and plenty of Navy ships, which was most likely the turning point in his decision...Oh, they also have Del Mar...

Keep our heads up...we will still do better than most expect next season!

maynard g krebs
05-15-2013, 01:50 PM
We are in great shape next year. Karno will play a ton and be gone for the NBA.

Say it together.... We are loaded.


Now what are we going to to with it. If we get cute and squander it away does the window finally slam shut?

Can Tommy save us again?

If I read a Vanzagger post and my head explodes but nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Vanzagger
05-15-2013, 01:52 PM
He needs to be ready. Soft touch, space eater, he will have to be accounted for.

thespywhozaggedme
05-15-2013, 01:53 PM
Angel, Karno, and Dower will do just fine. A little more guard centered team and maybe (fingers crossed) we will see GBJ break out of his shell. The cupboard is not bare. Lots of talent on this team, just get to the tourney baby

Angel is a sf and only a sf.

I gotta be honest; this new SUCKS!!!

Vanzagger
05-15-2013, 01:54 PM
Smog. That includes the great city San Diego

thespywhozaggedme
05-15-2013, 01:55 PM
The fat lady hasn't sung, Mark Few and the assistants will be resourceful. He didn't stay close to home for nothing. ;)

Do tell. We are in desperate need of good news.

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 02:02 PM
Smog. That includes the great city San Diego

Never. Coastal overcast yes, no smog. Paradise. Right now it's raining transfers.

bigblahla
05-15-2013, 02:03 PM
Angel is a sf and only a sf.

I gotta be honest; this new SUCKS!!!

This is the only post I can truly agree with in this thread as Spy said.

IT SUCKS!

Go!! Zags!!!

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 02:10 PM
Gonzaga’s priority transfer target Josh Davis announced this morning that he would be transferring to San Diego State over Ohio State and the Zags. Gonzaga has now missed out on both Moser and Davis, and find their backcourt in dire straights.

Mark Few and his staff must be feeling like they got punched right in the gut. Moser, Davis, and also Angelo Chol were on the programs radar, but they all slipped away. Davis was the last of the three to commit, so it must sting the most. There were also reports that the staff was recruiting Davis far and above the hardest out of the three players. If you also take that into account, the pain of losing out on Davis is even worse.

Gonzaga now must move forward with the pieces they already have. They only have four players that play either the 4 or 5 position, those being Przemek Karnowski, Sam Dower, and incoming freshmen Luke Meikle and Ryan Edwards. Angel Nunez could also be considered a post player, being 6’8″, yet he plays more like a wing.

Losing out on Davis means that Sam Dower will be forced into the power forward position, a position that is a little out of his skill set. It also will likely force Meikle and Edwards to play right away instead of redshirt. Although Meikle and Edwards are good prospects, it is uncertain if they are ready for the level of play in division one college basketball and the West Coast Conference.

Although Few and company have been known to pull guys out of nowhere at the very last second, it looks like this will be the roster they will bring into next season.They are still in the upper echelon of the WCC with their current squad, but it is going to be a lot harder for them to repeat as WCC champions without Davis, especially with the way BYU has been improving.

NotoriousZ
05-15-2013, 02:13 PM
:argh: Not even a visit? :enraged:

I guess it's plan C now. :explode:

Zippyzaggy
05-15-2013, 02:23 PM
Your take of the program is overwhelming. You really have a feel for how things work and will go down....lol

I hope you understood I was being sarcastic....thanks for letting me know how much I know about the program going forward, this is news to me, lol.

FieldHouseFishHouse
05-15-2013, 02:33 PM
Angel is a sf and only a sf.

I gotta be honest; this new SUCKS!!!

I don't know about this. He's a small forward who is taller than Elias Harris (yeah, I know he's thin).

I mean, was Micah Downs ONLY a small forward? The guy could catch the lob and was a decent shot blocker on the outside and in transition.

Was Erroll Knight ONLY a small forward? He went to the glass pretty hard and played D on pretty much anyone regardless of size.

This isn't Nathan Doudney or Larry G we're talking about, Nunez DOES at least have some length

jimmy b
05-15-2013, 02:44 PM
Like Jay-Z says, on to the next one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM1RChZk1EU).

that video brings back memories...for whatever reason a shoe my company makes was featured in it (being filled up with milk ...? I never understood that). It certainly moved the needle for few months.

jimmy b
05-15-2013, 02:45 PM
That one and done this year will haunt the Zags for some time, IMO.

Concur

cjm720
05-15-2013, 02:47 PM
I hope you understood I was being sarcastic....thanks for letting me know how much I know about the program going forward, this is news to me, lol.

use one of those cute little emoticons then ;) I actually thought you were, but some of your other posts might suggest otherwise. And I apologize in advance if I'm confusing you with some of the other newer posters. Go Zags!!

jimmy b
05-15-2013, 02:51 PM
Never. Coastal overcast yes, no smog. Paradise. Right now it's raining transfers.

good one Jazz.

True on the smog...the air quality has improved tremendously in last few decades in SD. Still not great, but at coast, air is almost always at least "good" in terms of the air quality index rates.

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 03:00 PM
good one Jazz.

True on the smog...the air quality has improved tremendously in last few decades in SD. Still not great, but at coast, air is almost always at least "good" in terms of the air quality index rates.

Best in summer. Twenty degrees lower than interior which can reach 90s.

Corky
05-15-2013, 03:00 PM
Also, San Diego has the best weather on the west coast and a nice Zoo and plenty of Navy ships, which was most likely the turning point in his decision...Oh, they also have Del Mar...

Keep our heads up...we will still do better than most expect next season!

We have Taco Del Mar . . .

jimmy b
05-15-2013, 03:01 PM
Gonzaga’s priority transfer target Josh Davis announced this morning that he would be transferring to San Diego State over Ohio State and the Zags. Gonzaga has now missed out on both Moser and Davis, and find their backcourt in dire straights.

Mark Few and his staff must be feeling like they got punched right in the gut. Moser, Davis, and also Angelo Chol were on the programs radar, but they all slipped away. Davis was the last of the three to commit, so it must sting the most. There were also reports that the staff was recruiting Davis far and above the hardest out of the three players. If you also take that into account, the pain of losing out on Davis is even worse.

Gonzaga now must move forward with the pieces they already have. They only have four players that play either the 4 or 5 position, those being Przemek Karnowski, Sam Dower, and incoming freshmen Luke Meikle and Ryan Edwards. Angel Nunez could also be considered a post player, being 6’8″, yet he plays more like a wing.

Losing out on Davis means that Sam Dower will be forced into the power forward position, a position that is a little out of his skill set. It also will likely force Meikle and Edwards to play right away instead of redshirt. Although Meikle and Edwards are good prospects, it is uncertain if they are ready for the level of play in division one college basketball and the West Coast Conference.

Although Few and company have been known to pull guys out of nowhere at the very last second, it looks like this will be the roster they will bring into next season.They are still in the upper echelon of the WCC with their current squad, but it is going to be a lot harder for them to repeat as WCC champions without Davis, especially with the way BYU has been improving.

I think they targeted the best one if that can be considered positive.
Due to sequence (Davis being last to decide and the one you want the most), this was always a risky proposition, whereas if Davis were first to decide, Moser and others could have been pursued harder.

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 03:04 PM
good one Jazz.

True on the smog...the air quality has improved tremendously in last few decades in SD. Still not great, but at coast, air is almost always at least "good" in terms of the air quality index rates.

See you at Jakes. Good night for the purple flash. 🎆

GoZags
05-15-2013, 03:18 PM
That one and done this year will haunt the Zags for some time, IMO.

Sure Gonzaga's first game win over Southern was tighter than most Zag fans wanted to see .... but the fact of the matter is Gonzaga won that game. They haven't had a "one and done" since '08 when they lost the heartbreaker to Steph Curry and Davidson. FWIW only three schools .... Kansas, Syracuse and Gonzaga have won at least one game in each of the last 5 dances. Every other school (out of the 341 schools that play D1 hoops) have either HAD a "one and done" or failed to even make it into the dance.

Other than that, good point.

Oregonzagnut
05-15-2013, 03:25 PM
So with all this uncertainty about the frontcourt are we still going to redshirt Edwards? Or do we keep him available for his frosh year as backup, then redshirt him sophmore year to help grow & develop his game, also in the hopes that we land some top bigs in 2014?

This is a good question. :)

Are we going to redshirt Edwards or Meikle? Personally, unless we get some back-up at the PF spot, we may need Edwards' big body. Maybe Karno and Edwards will get "chiseled" this off season and surprise us with defense and rebounding prowess?

Pargo the Destroyer
05-15-2013, 03:41 PM
This is a good question. :)

Are we going to redshirt Edwards or Meikle? Personally, unless we get some back-up at the PF spot, we may need Edwards big body. Maybe Karno and Edwards will get "chiseled" this off season and surprise us with defense and rebounding prowess?

This isn't good. Edwards didnt dominate backwoods basketball in Montana. Even If he did chisel up It wouldn't matter. As far as keeping out of foul trouble.... If this rec leaguer can see that the way to beat the zags is to pound them down low then I'm sure every coach on D1 can see the same thing. They will go at whomever is down low and try to draw fouls all night long. I hate to be pessimistic but reality is staring you right in the face. Winning anything with guards isnt going to happen. Even if the guards were "elite" it still wouldnt happen. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. We need another big guy. Bad

Oregonzagnut
05-15-2013, 03:49 PM
This isn't good. Edwards didnt dominate backwoods basketball in Montana. Even If he did chisel up It wouldn't matter. As far as keeping out of foul trouble.... If this rec leaguer can see that the way to beat the zags is to pound them down low then I'm sure every coach on D1 can see the same thing. They will go at whomever is down low and try to draw fouls all night long. I hate to be pessimistic but reality is staring you right in the face. Winning anything with guards isnt going to happen. Even if the guards were "elite" it still wouldnt happen. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. We need another big guy. Bad

So...you're saying redshirt Edwards?

BTW, we have won with guards before and we have won with balance, and we have won with a dominant frontcourt.... AND even more we have won when we all thought we wouldn't. So I am just staying positive until something else happens because what I see is reloading, not rebuilding. Even without Moser or Davis, Dower and Karno will step up! I personally promise you that or I will let you serve me my crow boiled and un-plucked.

IMO, Few will win 25+ games in 2013-14. Again.

jimmy b
05-15-2013, 03:52 PM
Best in summer. Twenty degrees lower than interior which can reach 90s.

I hear you. We're Elfin Forest, which is an in between zone, similar to the eastern reaches of RSF, so it can get warm. That said, we don't have the May Grey or June Gloom the direct coast gets.

xjzico
05-15-2013, 04:02 PM
This isn't good. Edwards didnt dominate backwoods basketball in Montana. Even If he did chisel up It wouldn't matter. As far as keeping out of foul trouble.... If this rec leaguer can see that the way to beat the zags is to pound them down low then I'm sure every coach on D1 can see the same thing. They will go at whomever is down low and try to draw fouls all night long. I hate to be pessimistic but reality is staring you right in the face. Winning anything with guards isnt going to happen. Even if the guards were "elite" it still wouldnt happen. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. We need another big guy. Bad
Illinois in 2004-05 and Villanova in 2005-06 were all about the guards and won quite a bit.

HenneZag
05-15-2013, 04:15 PM
I have been in a mild state of Depression ever since our loss to the Shockers. The sting has not gone away and I was hoping that a Davis to GU commitment would have gotten me over the hump.

Plan C is now in order...not sure what that entails but I am hoping we pull something out of the magic hat.

We have great players on our roster, but I can't remember a time when we lacked so much depth and had as many unknowns, Karno is unproven, and Dower has never received starter minutes. Im hoping we see a new attitude and leader in Dower next year and that he comes out with a nice chip on his shoulder.

This team well be so much different next year, Pangs/Stocks/Bell/Coleman/Drang/Nunez..could suprise us a bit, definately going to be fun to watch.

You have to believe that the WCC competition is licking there chops, especially BYU.

The Zags IMO were/are one player away from being outstanding.

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 04:19 PM
I hear you. We're Elfin Forest, which is an in between zone, similar to the eastern reaches of RSF, so it can get warm. That said, we don't have the May Grey or June Gloom the direct coast gets.

You're good. Still only 20 minutes from Jakes.

Oregonzagnut
05-15-2013, 04:30 PM
Illinois in 2004-05 and Villanova in 2005-06 were all about the guards and won quite a bit.

I agree xjzico, and even Gonzaga has had years where our back court won for us. The Dickau and Stepp years IMO were guard "led" and even when Heytvelt got suspnd'd, we relied on our back court heavily and we still won!
2013-14 will have fewer questions for me than other years. Every 2-3 seasons we lose a big batch of our stars but every next year our bench steps up to be starters and we get new surprises from Few and Co. Tommy may not get enough credit for that.

I trust Few to put out a great product each year with whatever parts he has to work with. But I wonder more about March nowadays and what is this jinx or hex we have on us? Can Few win in March? Because he has proven to me that he knows how to win in any other month.

I have dismissed that Few has a ceiling of any kind. Only we can allow ourselves to adhere to limits. I trust Few tries new things each year. Few can and will learn how to maximize his philosophy so it translates to March victory.

thespywhozaggedme
05-15-2013, 04:42 PM
I don't know about this. He's a small forward who is taller than Elias Harris (yeah, I know he's thin).

I mean, was Micah Downs ONLY a small forward? The guy could catch the lob and was a decent shot blocker on the outside and in transition.

Was Erroll Knight ONLY a small forward? He went to the glass pretty hard and played D on pretty much anyone regardless of size.

This isn't Nathan Doudney or Larry G we're talking about, Nunez DOES at least have some length

Yes, and sometimes a shooting guard. Angel isn't a pf; at all. he may be forced to play at the position outta necessity, but that will not be pretty.

Bogozags
05-15-2013, 04:48 PM
We have Taco Del Mar . . .

Do they serve hot sauce with their "place ticket?"

flytiezag
05-15-2013, 04:48 PM
ST Marys had two good not great bigs Waldo@Young and some soo soo bigs probably not much better than Edwards and Meikle will be. Dower@Shem are better then Waldo@Young.Bo Levesque played pf. alot at 6'6'.Our guards and small forwards are as good as theres and we have more of them.St Marys placed 2 in WCC no reason with what we have got that we will place 1 again.

HenneZag
05-15-2013, 04:57 PM
Honestly I believe it was easier for us to recruit 4-5 years ago then now. Then we were still an up and comer and players wanted to be a part of this great run and passionate lil school from Spokane. The problem is we haven't been able to turn that corner, we are coasting on level ground. Some may argue on what the corner is...WCC championships, consecutive tournament appearances etc...to me it's winning in March. I am not sure if this is effecting us bringing in guys like Moser/Davis...because I believe they chose the up and comers in Oregon and SDSU. Some seem to think that we have reached our ceiling.

Some of the guys we had on radar recently...Tra Holder, Grayson Allen, Moser, Davis have all chosen other programs. Obviously all of these guys had good reasons and tough choices but we are not getting it done recruiting wise. The next wave of guys, Travis Reid/Perkins/Small/Pope, im just hoping they don't fizzle out like some of the recent guys on radar...

Not trying to be negative, more of me venting, I need to find another hobby.

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 05:03 PM
Do they serve hot sauce with their "place ticket?"

Daily double.

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-15-2013, 05:16 PM
Gonzaga needs front court depth. I'm offering the services of a 6'1" power forward who was the 11th man on a Montana Class B team before he blew his knee out pushing a jogging stroller. The injury limits my off-season conditioning regimen a little bit but I have been working on my low post moves. I've been playing against the kid who used to ride in that jogging stroller and I can still dominate him, so I think I can contribute at least in limited minutes. With K.O.'s departure, there should be a scholarship available for me to pursue my graduate degree.

HenneZag
05-15-2013, 05:21 PM
we need your athleticism and all around freakish ability...don't let us down we have been burned alot this year.

jazzdelmar
05-15-2013, 05:26 PM
Can you guard the three point line? Do you even know where it is? If so, you got the job.

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-15-2013, 05:26 PM
we need your athleticism and all around freakish ability...don't let us down we have been burned alot this year.

Nobody ever described my game using the terms, "athleticism" or "freakish ability." I believe the term was, "Situational defensive substitution," or "a guy who checks in when everybody else is academically ineligible or in foul trouble."

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-15-2013, 05:43 PM
Can you guard the three point line? Do you even know where it is? If so, you got the job.

Sure. Nobody ever attempted three-pointers against me because they could drive against me at will.

gonwick
05-15-2013, 05:49 PM
This is rough. Edwards and/or meikle pressed into service prematurely, gu getting skunked recruiting. At least thanks to pacific and some ooc creampuffs they should get 20 wins. Which speaks to a lot. Following the best year with one of the worst in recent memory would be interesting timing.

GoZags
05-15-2013, 06:29 PM
This is rough. Edwards and/or meikle pressed into service prematurely, gu getting skunked recruiting. At least thanks to pacific and some ooc creampuffs they should get 20 wins. Which speaks to a lot. Following the best year with one of the worst in recent memory would be interesting timing.

Between '00 and '02 at various times there was a bevy of "hue and cry" episodes about the Zags, their recruiting -- the end of the "cute little run", etc. etc. etc. At the time, the father of a Zag redshirt made this proclamation .... a quote from the movie "Hoosiers".

"My team is on the floor" said Randy Dickau.

That's how I feel about the Zags. Next year's team isn't complete. There will be at least 1 (perhaps 2) newcomers that the board is unaware of at this time.

So while there are those that are into doom and gloom, I continue to hold the belief that the best of Gonzaga Basketball has yet to come. "My team is on the floor."

75Zag
05-15-2013, 06:43 PM
I believe that the 13-14 version of the Bulldogs will be competitive and fun to watch. My only concern is that staff may decide (again!) to avoid playing elite OOC competition due to the "rebuilding" or whatever. I am eager to see the Bulldogs play Kansas or KY or Louisville or Duke or Indiana (or even Arizona or Oregon) on a neutral floor in OOC play. Even if the Bulldogs get spanked (and hopefully they won't), I think having some high profile opponents will be good for the fans and good for the team as it prepares for a run in March of 14.

Bring on the Big Boys!

Go Bulldogs!

sylean
05-15-2013, 07:11 PM
the pessimism is overbearing....zags USED to be made up of no names and country boys....they got the job done.....they'll find a way next year.....it might even be a better year to be a fan.......no gimmes...every game hard fought......

jimmy b
05-15-2013, 07:41 PM
the pessimism is overbearing....zags USED to be made up of no names and country boys....they got the job done.....they'll find a way next year.....it might even be a better year to be a fan.......no gimmes...every game hard fought......

I don't disagree that it will be fun and all of us will be watching......But the reality is we were so close to making it a special year (yeah I know #1 ranking, seed, whatever....) but it wasn't. Much of the country thinks we are a joke, a perennial overrated team that plays in a weak league.

I don't think its a great situation to have every game hard fought following a year when we were legitimate threats for a title (no, not a WCC crown). It is a falloff, bigtime. I know about Kentucky year over year and NC's off year, but really it is hard to not be a little pessimistic after the bad Davis news today. What is the plan B, C or ? I'm sure someone will be added. As good as Davis ? I highly doubt it.

Now if last season ended in E8 or F4 or even sweet sixteen for that matter, would we be having this discussion ? I don't think so. Because Davis or someone else would be on board IMO.

sittingon50
05-15-2013, 08:34 PM
With the wheels falling off the Gonzaga Men's Basketball program, Ryan Edwards has decided to follow the lead of fellow Montanan Brock Osweiler and renege on his basketball commitment to pursue his secondary high school sport of tennis. The # 10 ranked Pepperdine Waves have offered & Ryan has accepted.

Stated Pepperdine Men's Tennis Coach Adam Steinberg, " If John Isner can reach #20 in the world at 6'9" & 245Lbs., the skies the limit for Ryan!"

Ryan was understandably giddy with this sudden change in events. "The Pepperdine campus is beautiful. Tommy Lloyd tried to make me believe the Spokane winters are just like Paris but who's he kidding; we get KHQ beamed into our living room in Kalispell every night. I know better! Think that compares with watching the sunset's over the Pacific Ocean out of my dorm room every night? Plus, their mascot really intrigue's me."


There is however a somewhat small ray of sunlight in all the darkness that surrounds the GU program. Renowned strength & conditioning Coach Travis Knight (he who recently rescued Kelly Olynyk's once struggling career to become an almost certain 1st Round draft pick) has been helping Coach Mark Few address the suddenly thin frontline. Travis has taken Rem Bakamus under his wing since the end of the season. "Of course we always expect the greatest gains to be made early, and then see a leveling off" stated Travis. "Rem is an absolute gym rat. He has already added 30" to his vertical. If we can squeeze another 6" out of those steely coils attached below his hips, we could have another monster on our hands! I would suggest all Kennel Clubbers close to the on court action wear protective helmets of some sort, so as to minimize the concussive effects of a fully inflated Rawlings basketball being swatted in their direction at a high rate of speed!"

wiszag
05-15-2013, 08:41 PM
Isn't there a 7'1" guy on the roster who is projected to be a first round draft choice? That should count for something, right?

Hey, I wanted Josh, he never even made the trip up to Spokane. It wasn't meant to be. This is an opportunity for the guys that are on the roster to step up. No quick fixes.

I hoe Coleman and Nunez can make us forget this crappy spring.

madness
05-15-2013, 09:08 PM
This is a bummer, does anyone have a link or list of the prospective JC big men out there?

DCZag
05-15-2013, 11:43 PM
I, too, would have liked to land another big, but unlike some here who have chosen to take the "short view" - pun intended - I think we'll see the team adapt and play to their strengths.

College bball is a guard dominated game. We'll see a lot of sets with 2 guards, 2 wings and a big; or 3 guards, a wing and a big.

Besides, it's still early. We could still pull a rabbit out of the hat...so quit running with scissors, it'll be alright.

DixieZag
05-16-2013, 06:56 AM
Between '00 and '02 at various times there was a bevy of "hue and cry" episodes about the Zags, their recruiting -- the end of the "cute little run", etc. etc. etc. At the time, the father of a Zag redshirt made this proclamation .... a quote from the movie "Hoosiers".

"My team is on the floor" said Randy Dickau.

That's how I feel about the Zags. Next year's team isn't complete. There will be at least 1 (perhaps 2) newcomers that the board is unaware of at this time.

So while there are those that are into doom and gloom, I continue to hold the belief that the best of Gonzaga Basketball has yet to come. "My team is on the floor."

A really great point.

Also encouraging to hear that there will be an addition or two. I find it good to be reminded that the pessimism I feel is based upon the situation as it now stands and I don't know all that is going on.

Moser choosing home and Davis choosing from one option isn't really indicative of anything but it sure seems that way in an off season that has been a series of bad news for next year.

primal23
05-16-2013, 07:18 AM
Illinois in 2004-05 and Villanova in 2005-06 were all about the guards and won quite a bit.

No offense to Bell and Pangos, both whom are great. But they aren't on par w/ guards on those teams.

primal23
05-16-2013, 07:20 AM
The poor poor showing in the tourney year after year is biting now....

Robzagnut
05-16-2013, 07:24 AM
That one and done this year will haunt the Zags for some time, IMO.

Too true.

Perception has become reality. The one and dones from the past 10 years were the dark cloud. The 2013 tourney was the year GU was going to shatter the perception, but they choked. No one wants to play for a mid-major that dominates its conference, but does nothing else and the proof is happening this year.

All the comments from the naysayers from around the country have come to roost this year, "soft, doesn't play major competition late, small guards, weak schedule, chokers, mid-major conference, Few can't win the big one, etc." We know it isn't true, but tell that to recruiters and the kids who are deciding where to play.

primal23
05-16-2013, 07:28 AM
Too true.

Perception has become reality. The one and dones from the past 10 years were the dark cloud. The 2013 tourney was the year GU was going to shatter the perception, but they choked. No one wants to play for a mid-major that dominates its conference, but does nothing else and the proof is happening this year.

All the comments from the naysayers from around the country have come to roost this year, "soft, doesn't play major competition late, small guards, weak schedule, chokers, mid-major conference, Few can't win the big one, etc." We know it isn't true, but tell that to recruiters and the kids who are deciding where to play.

Well it is kinda true. Didn't think we were soft last year, but damn looked that way in the NCAA...

LongIslandZagFan
05-16-2013, 07:30 AM
Too true.

Perception has become reality. The one and dones from the past 10 years were the dark cloud. The 2013 tourney was the year GU was going to shatter the perception, but they choked. No one wants to play for a mid-major that dominates its conference, but does nothing else and the proof is happening this year.

All the comments from the naysayers from around the country have come to roost this year, "soft, doesn't play major competition late, small guards, weak schedule, chokers, mid-major conference, Few can't win the big one, etc." We know it isn't true, but tell that to recruiters and the kids who are deciding where to play.

One and done? Last I checked it was two and done. Are we so negative that we can't count how many games they played?

LongIslandZagFan
05-16-2013, 07:38 AM
With the wheels falling off the Gonzaga Men's Basketball program, Ryan Edwards has decided to follow the lead of fellow Montanan Brock Osweiler and renege on his basketball commitment to pursue his secondary high school sport of tennis. The # 10 ranked Pepperdine Waves have offered & Ryan has accepted.

Stated Pepperdine Men's Tennis Coach Adam Steinberg, " If John Isner can reach #20 in the world at 6'9" & 245Lbs., the skies the limit for Ryan!"

Ryan was understandably giddy with this sudden change in events. "The Pepperdine campus is beautiful. Tommy Lloyd tried to make me believe the Spokane winters are just like Paris but who's he kidding; we get KHQ beamed into our living room in Kalispell every night. I know better! Think that compares with watching the sunset's over the Pacific Ocean out of my dorm room every night? Plus, their mascot really intrigue's me."


There is however a somewhat small ray of sunlight in all the darkness that surrounds the GU program. Renowned strength & conditioning Coach Travis Knight (he who recently rescued Kelly Olynyk's once struggling career to become an almost certain 1st Round draft pick) has been helping Coach Mark Few address the suddenly thin frontline. Travis has taken Rem Bakamus under his wing since the end of the season. "Of course we always expect the greatest gains to be made early, and then see a leveling off" stated Travis. "Rem is an absolute gym rat. He has already added 30" to his vertical. If we can squeeze another 6" out of those steely coils attached below his hips, we could have another monster on our hands! I would suggest all Kennel Clubbers close to the on court action wear protective helmets of some sort, so as to minimize the concussive effects of a fully inflated Rawlings basketball being swatted in their direction at a high rate of speed!"

I applaud your work here 50. got a good chuckle out of it. Although, with the time spent to determine that Edwards played tennis at Glacier and looking up the Pepperdine coach, what happened with listing him at 6'9"?

GoZags
05-16-2013, 08:20 AM
One and done? Last I checked it was two and done. Are we so negative that we can't count how many games they played?

The doom and gloom crowd are MUCH more effective when they intentionally misuse the expression "one and done". It's too bad they can't remember the NCAA tourney wins over Akron, Western Kentucky, Florida State, St Johns, West Virginia and Southern. The fact of the matter is the Zags have 6 NCAA tourney wins since their last "one and done".

thespywhozaggedme
05-16-2013, 08:48 AM
No offense to Bell and Pangos, both whom are great. But they aren't on par w/ guards on those teams.

Yup, that Nova team started Randy Foye, Kyle Lowry and Allen Ray; two of whom are having very successful NBA careers. I don't think Pangos or Bell will make the NBA.

madness
05-16-2013, 09:16 AM
OK, I went out and found a link of 2013 JUCO rankings. There are still some bigs on this list that are undecided:

http://www.jucorecruiting.com/2013-juco-top-100-player-rankings/

Anyone know anything on:

Ocatvious Ellis 6'9 (kicked off Cincy team for nightclub brawl)
Kevin Thomas 6'9 (http://www.gopherhole.com/news_article/show/205764?referrer_id=334835) former Texas commit
Nkosi Ali 7'0 (Minnesota looking at him as well as Thomas) 8.5 rebounds per game

gonwick
05-16-2013, 09:18 AM
Good to hear there may be other options. Can anyone in the know offer any info? Juco? Europe? I just think that, no matter how optimistic one is, a team with two people to play two positions is in a world of hurt. Edwards and meikle, barring a massive surprise, will not contribute significantly. Even if nunez plays out of position as a 4, it will only be in conference play, when gu may be well off the national radar.

primal23
05-16-2013, 09:59 AM
The doom and gloom crowd are MUCH more effective when they intentionally misuse the expression "one and done". It's too bad they can't remember the NCAA tourney wins over Akron, Western Kentucky, Florida State, St Johns, West Virginia and Southern. The fact of the matter is the Zags have 6 NCAA tourney wins since their last "one and done".

I don't see myself in the doom and gloom, but maybe I am. But quoting those wins, with exception to WKU, all fit into a joke someone posted on here awhile ago, about Few having a bar, but can't get drunk because you are out after 2 rounds.

I'm not on the dump Few bandwagon, but this past season was great, except when it matters the most.

thespywhozaggedme
05-16-2013, 10:22 AM
OK, I went out and found a link of 2013 JUCO rankings. There are still some bigs on this list that are undecided:

http://www.jucorecruiting.com/2013-juco-top-100-player-rankings/

Anyone know anything on:

Ocatvious Ellis 6'9 (kicked off Cincy team for nightclub brawl)
Kevin Thomas 6'9 (http://www.gopherhole.com/news_article/show/205764?referrer_id=334835) former Texas commit
Nkosi Ali 7'0 (Minnesota looking at him as well as Thomas) 8.5 rebounds per game

I'm gonna start a separate thread, so your post doesn't get buried, if you don't mind.

BULLDOG#1
05-16-2013, 11:23 AM
Dower, Karno, Barham, Coleman is probably the best front court in the WCC and backed by Dranginis, Stocks, Pangos and Bell is easily a top twenty team.
Then we're looking at hopefully another WCC title and with a little luck a deeper tourney run...

Are we really so spoiled that we're moaning over such a team? The number one ranking this year really has gone to everyone's head.

GU continues to be a gem in the mid-major world... expecting to recruit with the likes of KU, Duke, etc. isn't realistic. The coaching staff here is amazing at finding and developing talent that is realistic for a quality mid-major. We aren't going to get the five stars, but we will get a KO every now and then...

We're really blessed when you think about it. Dower and Karno and ??? will be just fine.

thespywhozaggedme
05-16-2013, 11:33 AM
Dower, Karno, Barham, Coleman is probably the best front court in the WCC and backed by Dranginis, Stocks, Pangos and Bell is easily a top twenty team.
Then we're looking at hopefully another WCC title and with a little luck a deeper tourney run...

Are we really so spoiled that we're moaning over such a team? The number one ranking this year really has gone to everyone's head.

GU continues to be a gem in the mid-major world... expecting to recruit with the likes of KU, Duke, etc. isn't realistic. The coaching staff here is amazing at finding and developing talent that is realistic for a quality mid-major. We aren't going to get the five stars, but we will get a KO every now and then...

We're really blessed when you think about it. Dower and Karno and ??? will be just fine.

Is that how low our standard has sunk to? That's kinda disheartening. :(

primal23
05-16-2013, 11:35 AM
Is that how low our standard has sunk to? That's kinda disheartening. :(

I was thinking the same. To be content with that and a win or 2 at most in the NCAA is fine with some, then that's great for them. Gotta set goals higher then that...

sittingon50
05-16-2013, 11:45 AM
Was referring to American tennis player John Isner. 6'9" & ranked 20th in the world; hence (since Ryan is bigger) "the skies the limit."

HenneZag
05-16-2013, 12:36 PM
As far as fans we all have different views on what content is. Im not content for the most part. Yes last season was great, #1 ranking is an honor, but we play for march. People know we will get to the dance and most likely get stuck at the round of 32. This isn't our first rodeo, but we have to be striving for more.

As far as being content for next year, im not. We do have great players on board for next season. The starting lineup looks decent on paper. Pangos/Bell/Coleman/Dower/Karn. But its what happens when Dower and Karn are in foul trouble, one gets injured or needs a break. We need the depth more than I think some ppl realize. Dower especially is so foul prone with even his limited minutes last year that it may cause us to play timid much of the time, well see, just my opinion. But im sure the coaches are in scramble mode to address this as we speak.

cjm720
05-16-2013, 01:22 PM
We'll add a big between now and the season starts and I remember people talking all last summer about Kelly's fouling tendencies. Players get better in our (and most) system.

As far as being content, we all want to go farther in the tourney but boy was I happy most of last year...what a ride and a non-sprained ankle and/or a missed/made 3 pt. away from the Sweet 16 then who knows....

Bottom line, the program continues to trend up.

GoZags
05-16-2013, 03:11 PM
I don't see myself in the doom and gloom, but maybe I am. But quoting those wins, with exception to WKU, all fit into a joke someone posted on here awhile ago, about Few having a bar, but can't get drunk because you are out after 2 rounds.

I'm not on the dump Few bandwagon, but this past season was great, except when it matters the most.

Quite a humerous joke told mainly by folks that would love to trade places with Gonzaga. I first heard it on KJR told by a Koog. Sure the Zags have lost in the round of 32 each of the last 4 seasons. To a 1 seed as an 8. To a 3 seed as an 11. To a 2 seed as a 7. And this past March. To a Final Four school as a 1 (ouch).

As I posted earlier .... Only Kansas. Syracuse and Gonzaga have advanced as far as the Round of 32 each of the past 5 seasons. And the doom and gloomers feel like that's a joke.

ZagLawGrad
05-16-2013, 03:27 PM
,,,As I posted earlier .... Only Kansas. Syracuse and Gonzaga have advanced as far as the Round of 32 each of the past 5 seasons. And the doom and gloomers feel like that's a joke.


GZ, that point lost some shine after this past tourney exit.

Only time will tell.

GoZags
05-16-2013, 03:28 PM
I was thinking the same. To be content with that and a win or 2 at most in the NCAA is fine with some, then that's great for them. Gotta set goals higher then that...

Who has said ANYTHING about being content? Or that being a goal? Kindly link to any post where that has been expressed.

OTOH there are some who think getting that far is a birthright ... Or is owed to them because they are fans. It isn't easy getting to the dance. Let alone winning once there. The sense of entitlement expressed by some is astounding to me.

GoZags
05-16-2013, 03:43 PM
GZ, that point lost some shine after this past tourney exit.

Only time will tell.

Agree. There is work to do. The one time (out of the last 5 dances) that Gonzaga underperformed to its seed was unfortunate. I believe the time will come and the ball will bounce the Zag's way as it did in '99, '00 and '01.

Reborn
05-16-2013, 09:08 PM
It's about time for a reality check folks. We are talking about Gonzaga...YOu know the Zags!!! Have some of you forgotten? What a crazy thread, dominated of course by the Gloom and Doomers. It's time to get out those Rose colored glasses. Time to get out the Kool Aid gang. I am as excited about next year as I have ever been. There is something about the mystery of not knowing that I love. I do not doubt for a moment that the Zags will be right in it for the conference championship and conference tournament championship. Some of you seem to enjoy derailing our Zags, and diminishing the talent of next years team. And have you forgotten that we have some of the best coaches in the United States. Enjoy your darkness, because come Fall the weather will be sunny. Sam Dower, and Karno will stand tall next season. And so will every other Zag who puts on that jersey with the name of Gonzaga on the front. I'm not making any bold predictions about how we will finish, but I am prepared to make a bold statement. Gonzaga will be Gonzaga next year, and this team will be far better than some of the fans here who claim to support the Zags.

I expect to see some very different basketball played next year. I can hardly wait to see what it is. No dark cloud for me with the news of Moses and Davis. Has Gonzaga ever won a recruiting war for players like them. Few et al will bring in either a very good JUCO player or someone from overseas. Gonzaga wasn't built on top 50 players. We were built on top 50 to top 100 type of players. Players will step up because there is so much pride in being a Zag. I hate to give all you pessimists a reality check of who we're talking about here, The Zags, Baby...Peace and Love.

Go Zags!!!

ZagaZags
05-16-2013, 09:18 PM
Agree. There is work to do. The one time (out of the last 5 dances) that Gonzaga underperformed to its seed was unfortunate. I believe the time will come and the ball will bounce the Zag's way as it did in '99, '00 and '01.

Is Casey Calvary coming back?

gonwick
05-16-2013, 09:44 PM
I think the actions of the coaches speak volumes about their concerns for next year. They are clearly worried, and now plans A, B, an C have fallen through and gu is hurting. We all know there were multiple factors that led to this, ko going nuclear, spangler transferring, but I think it is not a matter of pessimism or optimism, just the simple fact that gu is in serious trouble down low and the coaches are scrambling to fix it. There will probably be a suboptimal patch applied and next year will ride on whether Kevin's shot came to the arena with him. I think a lot of people are responding to the frustration that these challenges will follow last year. Most probably hoped that high rankings would lead to better recruits, and that didn't pan out for three players this summer, maybe confirming the damage of the early tournament exit(s), the lack of appeal of the WCC, or the misfortune of beautiful weather on other campuses. Here's hoping they put in all kinds of time on 2014 because for the moment 2013 looks rough.

GorgeZag
05-16-2013, 11:10 PM
For me, it's the missed opportunities. Some people like to point to the Dukes and Louisvilles (these are just an example, you can close Google) of the world and say we are as successful as them with our WCC inflated records. (Before you throw RPI numbers at me, prove me wrong. Average the RPI of the WCC going back to '99. Now do the same for the rest of the conferences. We still top ten? Now do it again but remove the number one team from each. Recalculate. Im curious how they rank in each of those senarios. This doesnt have much to do with my post, i was just curious. Thanks for doing that, it's a lot of work.)
Teams like Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. are the elite. They have their down years but always risen back to the top. Wether it's larger local talent bases, more money, tradition, big city, better weather, whatever it is, they have built in advantages. A down year, a bad coaching hire, a scandal, for the most part the elite schools recover.
We on the other hand, don't have those built in advantages. That's why it's imperative to capitalize on the opportunity when it's there. It's not so much that we lost this year, it's that it was a down year for some of those traditional powers with no clear cut favorite. Those same powers will be better next year and chances are we will have to wait for the next down cycle. We were the 1 seed with the bracket busting in front of us. Didn't take advantage.
Another example would be the much talked about crappy PAC 12. For the past 3-4 years the PAC has been a shell of itself. You would think that would be a boon for us recruiting wise being the "power" of the West Coast.
It hasn't.
Now they are picking up steam again and it's already proven difficult and will continue to do so (Perkins, etc.) to recruit against them. Didn't take advantage.

Hopefully the staff can get something out of the #1 ranking and seeding. It was/is a big deal for the program, hopefully they can take advantage of it.

GoZags
05-17-2013, 06:52 AM
For me, it's the missed opportunities. Some people like to point to the Dukes and Louisvilles (these are just an example, you can close Google) of the world and say we are as successful as them with our WCC inflated records. (Before you throw RPI numbers at me, prove me wrong. Average the RPI of the WCC going back to '99. Now do the same for the rest of the conferences. We still top ten? Now do it again but remove the number one team from each. Recalculate. Im curious how they rank in each of those senarios. This doesnt have much to do with my post, i was just curious. Thanks for doing that, it's a lot of work.)
Teams like Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. are the elite. They have their down years but always risen back to the top. Wether it's larger local talent bases, more money, tradition, big city, better weather, whatever it is, they have built in advantages. A down year, a bad coaching hire, a scandal, for the most part the elite schools recover.
We on the other hand, don't have those built in advantages. That's why it's imperative to capitalize on the opportunity when it's there. It's not so much that we lost this year, it's that it was a down year for some of those traditional powers with no clear cut favorite. Those same powers will be better next year and chances are we will have to wait for the next down cycle. We were the 1 seed with the bracket busting in front of us. Didn't take advantage.
Another example would be the much talked about crappy PAC 12. For the past 3-4 years the PAC has been a shell of itself. You would think that would be a boon for us recruiting wise being the "power" of the West Coast.
It hasn't.
Now they are picking up steam again and it's already proven difficult and will continue to do so (Perkins, etc.) to recruit against them. Didn't take advantage.

Hopefully the staff can get something out of the #1 ranking and seeding. It was/is a big deal for the program, hopefully they can take advantage of it.

I don't disagree with anything you've said (other than your "close the google" line ... and you'd have to point out where ANYONE said Gonzaga was as successful as Duke or Louisville ... or anyone who described Gonzaga as "elite"). There's a difference in stating known facts and idle speculation/projections.

You mentioned "google". There are other sites that are much better for quick (i.e. less an a minute or two) research. www.collegerpi.com for pre '13 is one. Visit it and research to your heart's content rather than asking others to do work to satisfy your curiosity.

Yes -- it's a shame that Gonzaga didn't capitalize on this past year's opportunity. I think it's also a shame that there are Gonzaga fans willing to tear down the efforts of the program because they didn't make the Final Four (or Elite 8 or even Sweet 16). As you'd mentioned .... it was set up perfectly for the Zags and they failed to take advantage of it. Yes, it was painful ..... who knows if there will EVER be a better set up.

But the "end" isn't here. It's my opinion that the Zags will continue to be a part of the national picture and it's also my opinion that the best days for Gonzaga Basketball continue to lie ahead.

Robzagnut
05-17-2013, 07:09 AM
Quite a humerous joke told mainly by folks that would love to trade places with Gonzaga. I first heard it on KJR told by a Koog. Sure the Zags have lost in the round of 32 each of the last 4 seasons. To a 1 seed as an 8. To a 3 seed as an 11. To a 2 seed as a 7. And this past March. To a Final Four school as a 1 (ouch).

As I posted earlier .... Only Kansas. Syracuse and Gonzaga have advanced as far as the Round of 32 each of the past 5 seasons. And the doom and gloomers feel like that's a joke.


Whatever helps you sleep at night. I would throw it all away for a National Championship. Settling for one and done* and being happy with the "Only Kansas, Syracuse, GU have..." crap is a chokers mentality.

The BIG CHOKE this year is going to have serious ramifications for years to come. Lower ranking, resulting in lower seeds, lower respect and recruits reading over and over that GU is a one and done team with other school recruiters pointing it out at every opportunity. It's becoming a national joke. I used to ignore the message boards with all the bile thrown at GU, but because of THE CHOKE of 2013, it all is starting to ring true.

The only way to make it stop is to win in March. Without a 3rd big man I don't see it happening in the 2014 tourney.


* One and done = won and done.

cjm720
05-17-2013, 07:19 AM
Whatever helps you sleep at night. I would throw it all away for a National Championship. Settling for one and done* and being happy with the "Only Kansas, Syracuse, GU have..." crap is a chokers mentality.

The BIG CHOKE this year is going to have serious ramifications for years to come. Lower ranking, resulting in lower seeds, lower respect and recruits reading over and over that GU is a one and done team with other school recruiters pointing it out at every opportunity. It's becoming a national joke. I used to ignore the message boards with all the bile thrown at GU, but because of THE CHOKE of 2013, it all is starting to ring true.

The only way to make it stop is to win in March. Without a 3rd big man I don't see it happening in the 2014 tourney.


* One and done = won and done.

A #1 national ranking and a consensus all-american after an unheard of redshirt season...yeah, what a joke of a program. WTF is wrong with some of you?

We will rarely get the one and done players and that's what Moser and Davis were...we'll unlikely to ever get a Wiggins or a Noel....so all this #####ing is meaningless. We'll reload like we do every year and still make an impact on the national stage. Yea, we're thin down low for 13/14 but there's a lot of time between now and November.

webspinnre
05-17-2013, 07:23 AM
Look, I'm disappointed with the "3rd" (2nd) round exits. My goal every year is Sweet 16 as a minimum. That being said, the past few years, we've been the lower seed, which complicates things. This year is particularly disappointing, because we had the chance and blew it. That being said, the amount of woe is me that we've seen this year after the loss and after not getting the two big transfers absolutely blows me away.

ZagLawGrad
05-17-2013, 07:43 AM
Look, I'm disappointed with the "3rd" (2nd) round exits. My goal every year is Sweet 16 as a minimum. That being said, the past few years, we've been the lower seed, which complicates things. This year is particularly disappointing, because we had the chance and blew it. That being said, the amount of woe is me that we've seen this year after the loss and after not getting the two big transfers absolutely blows me away.

There's merit on both viewpoints.

Sure, the Zags have had a good run. And they will be in the fray in March when it matters. No reason to jump off a bridge yet.

But no doubt, the inability to back up the #1 ranking as evidenced by the early exit this year revealed some significant issues. Namely, the WCC and the fact the Zags have clearly not been prepared to do what it takes to make a deep run. If that kind of run didn't happen this season, it's gonna be some time before you see it again. For some to stick their heads in the sand and pretend the program has great national stature at the moment, and is on the cusp of a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 today, is not supported by the facts.

No doubt 2013-14 ought to be interesting.

cjm720
05-17-2013, 08:12 AM
For some to stick their heads in the sand and pretend the program has great national stature at the moment, and is on the cusp of a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 today, is not supported by the facts.

No doubt 2013-14 ought to be interesting.

How about the fact that Bell, our best perimeter defender, sprained his ankle; how about the fact that a crappy shoting three point shooting team hitting 14 on us in the same game; how about the fact that that same team advanced to the Final 4.

Every year, I can outline these "excuses" that 99% of the programs would love to have. That's not settling, that's reality.

A #1 ranking doesn't translate to getting recurits the very next year as it's more of a lagged effect. And that assumes some high level recruits can get passed the WCC stigma.

TexasZagFan
05-17-2013, 08:13 AM
I don't disagree with anything you've said (other than your "close the google" line ... and you'd have to point out where ANYONE said Gonzaga was as successful as Duke or Louisville ... or anyone who described Gonzaga as "elite"). There's a difference in stating known facts and idle speculation/projections.

You mentioned "google". There are other sites that are much better for quick (i.e. less an a minute or two) research. www.collegerpi.com for pre '13 is one. Visit it and research to your heart's content rather than asking others to do work to satisfy your curiosity.

Yes -- it's a shame that Gonzaga didn't capitalize on this past year's opportunity. I think it's also a shame that there are Gonzaga fans willing to tear down the efforts of the program because they didn't make the Final Four (or Elite 8 or even Sweet 16). As you'd mentioned .... it was set up perfectly for the Zags and they failed to take advantage of it. Yes, it was painful ..... who knows if there will EVER be a better set up.

But the "end" isn't here. It's my opinion that the Zags will continue to be a part of the national picture and it's also my opinion that the best days for Gonzaga Basketball continue to lie ahead.

Screw it...blow it up and bring back Buoncristiani!!! :enraged::explode:

Preppin' for a road trip to Wichita later this year. Might even head out to Maui...never been there, and I can't think of a better reason to go.

TexasZagFan
05-17-2013, 08:17 AM
How about the fact that Bell, our best perimeter defender, sprained his ankle; how about the fact that a crappy shoting three point shooting team hitting 14 on us in the same game; how about the fact that that same team advanced to the Final 4.

Every year, I can outline these "excuses" that 99% of the programs would love to have. That's not settling, that's reality.

A #1 ranking doesn't translate to getting recurits the very next year as it's more of a lagged effect. And that assumes some high level recruits can get passed the WCC stigma.

The "Basketball Blutarskis" say, "but was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

Heck, I'm still ticked over the loss to Davidson, especially when you consider what a failure Steph Curry has been in the NBA.

GoZags
05-17-2013, 08:32 AM
There's merit on both viewpoints.

Sure, the Zags have had a good run. And they will be in the fray in March when it matters. No reason to jump off a bridge yet.

But no doubt, the inability to back up the #1 ranking as evidenced by the early exit this year revealed some significant issues. Namely, the WCC and the fact the Zags have clearly not been prepared to do what it takes to make a deep run. If that kind of run didn't happen this season, it's gonna be some time before you see it again. For some to stick their heads in the sand and pretend the program has great national stature at the moment, and is on the cusp of a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 today, is not supported by the facts.

No doubt 2013-14 ought to be interesting.

Pretend?

The Zags DO have a great national stature. Are they Elite? No -- you can count the number of "elites" on your fingers (don't need to use your toes).

In my book Gonzaga is solidly in the 15-20 range nationally and have been for the past decade +. Last season's early ending was disappointing. 16 schools advanced further than Gonzaga did despite what was considered a "favorable" draw.

Who knows how far Gonzaga will go next season. I sure don't. What I do know is that basketball minds greater than our message board experts (and greater than Gonzaga's naysayers) are working on it ..... and it appears I have more confidence in their abilities than others.

I'm looking forward to seeing who Tommy brings in. I'm looking forward to seeing another potential transfer show up this fall, who after his redshirt year would have the chance to contribute to making positive things happen down the road. I'm looking forward to seeing the further maturation of Pangos and Bell. I'm looking forward to seeing growth from Kyle. I'm looking forward to seeing Gerard on the court .... and Angel. I'm looking forward to watching Karnowski develop ..... and to watching Sam as a Senior Leader.

There's a difference between looking at a glass half empty and a glass half full. Gonzaga's glass (in my opinion) is well over "half full".

My team is on the floor.

ZagLawGrad
05-17-2013, 09:02 AM
Pretend?....The Zags DO have a great national stature. .

I don't see it being viewed as "great" on a national level beyond our confines.

Good, no doubt.

But that WCC stigma and the recent SLC performance is there, front and center, whether we like it or not.

GoZags
05-17-2013, 09:09 AM
I don't see it being viewed as "great" on a national level beyond our confines.

Good, no doubt.

But that WCC stigma and the recent SLC performance is there, front and center, whether we like it or not.

Of the 10 smallest schools to reach #1 -- it's my opinion that only one currently has a "greater" national reputation than Gonzaga's (http://extramustard.si.com/2013/03/04/the-20-smallest-schools-ever-to-be-ranked-no-1-in-the-ap-top-25/)

Out of the 20 smallest, less than a handful have a greater national reputation than does Gonzaga (again, my opinion).

I don't know any Zag fan that was happy about the loss to Wichita State .... but that loss doesn't alter the fact that Gonzaga is still a National program .... and while it's true that some pundits and fans of other schools not as successful as Gonzaga enjoy taking their shot .... the framework is STILL there to exceed expectations. Of course, seeing some of the doom and gloom "expectations" ..... exceeding them wouldn't be hard to do.

GoZags
05-17-2013, 09:16 AM
Screw it...blow it up and bring back Buoncristiani!!! :enraged::explode:
.

Gimme a Q!
Gimme a W!
Gimme an X!
Gimme a U!
Gimme another half dozen random letters from the Alphabet! i.e. B .... P ....D.... H, etc.

What's that SPELL?

BOUNCRISTIANI !!!

What's that SPELL?

BUONCRISTIANI !!!

What's that SPELL?

BUONCRISTIANI !!!

An old cheer from the "Snake Pit" -- precursor to the "Kennel Club"

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad93/tbkd1/ken.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/tbkd1/media/ken.jpg.html)

DixieZag
05-17-2013, 10:39 AM
Is that how low our standard has sunk to? That's kinda disheartening. :(

In what most agree is a "down" year (and where do you go from a one seed?) - yeah, that is a pretty good standard and pretty high standard. All teams have ups and downs - Kentucky didn't make the tourney, one and done in the NIT.

The challenge is keeping the trend moving up, too early to tell anything about that.

Oregonzagnut
05-17-2013, 10:41 AM
You know what is "losing" mentality? A person that has trouble making a point without being intentionally rude to others that simply throw out a different angle on a problem, using paternalism and throwing words in their mouths that weren't there.

GoZags is one of the least pollyannas on the board and that was totally uncalled for.

Now, now, we each have some pollyanna and negative nancy in us. :starwars:
We all know a polly or a nancy somewhere. :boxing:
And we all fall somewhere in between.

Apparently I am a pollyannancy.

TexasZagFan
05-17-2013, 12:12 PM
Whatever helps you sleep at night. I would throw it all away for a National Championship. Settling for one and done* and being happy with the "Only Kansas, Syracuse, GU have..." crap is a chokers mentality.

The BIG CHOKE this year is going to have serious ramifications for years to come. Lower ranking, resulting in lower seeds, lower respect and recruits reading over and over that GU is a one and done team with other school recruiters pointing it out at every opportunity. It's becoming a national joke. I used to ignore the message boards with all the bile thrown at GU, but because of THE CHOKE of 2013, it all is starting to ring true.

The only way to make it stop is to win in March. Without a 3rd big man I don't see it happening in the 2014 tourney.


* One and done = won and done.

Now that I think about it, you're absolutely right.

I was taking my regular walk (while wearing my GU Alum shirt) along the Campion Trail, and I had just passed Keenan's Crossing. A cheeky fellow sees my shirt, and starts yelling at me, "hey m-f-er, you destroyed my bracket this year!!! I hate the Zags with all my heart, and I hope you die from a heart attack!"

My reply, "how's that national schedule working out for you, Lorenzo?"

Seriously, no one in the Metroplex has said jack to me, and I wear my Zag gear all the time, to include work.

75Zag
05-17-2013, 12:22 PM
Now, now, we each have some pollyanna and negative nancy in us. :starwars:
We all know a polly or a nancy somewhere. :boxing:
And we all fall somewhere in between.

Apparently I am a pollyannancy.

I understand that certain hospitals are offering "fan reassignment" surgery.

As I said to my cousin Paul - now Pauline - you can't sit on the fence forever.

Go Bulldogs!

Pargo the Destroyer
05-17-2013, 01:16 PM
You know what is "losing" mentality? A person that has trouble making a point without being intentionally rude to others that simply throw out a different angle on a problem, using paternalism and throwing words in their mouths that weren't there.

GoZags is one of the least pollyannas on the board and that was totally uncalled for.

People are getting sooo testy. It's sunny outside folks. Go. Frolic. Enjoy.

DixieZag
05-17-2013, 05:33 PM
People are getting sooo testy. It's sunny outside folks. Go. Frolic. Enjoy.

I agree. I was too harsh in responding to something I thought was way overboard. I am going to delete it - - I do hope that people can continue to disagree without belittling others' opinion.

Oh, and OZN - I agree. It would be boring here without differing opinions, I simply want people to stick to their view - either way.

Pargo the Destroyer
05-17-2013, 06:39 PM
I agree. I was too harsh in responding to something I thought was way overboard. I am going to delete it - - I do hope that people can continue to disagree without belittling others' opinion.

Oh, and OZN - I agree. It would be boring here without differing opinions, I simply want people to stick to their view - either way.

That wasnt at you Dixie, just an overall vibe. I wasn't singling you out per se, although I acknowledge I quoted your post. My bad there. Besides we can't be saying negative things on this board because god forbid a players parent will read something unsightly. The board should be renamed "GuBoards, a place where only nice things are said, screw reality".

webspinnre
05-17-2013, 07:02 PM
No, that's ridiculous. Just that there should always be the notion in the back of our minds that family does read the board, and as such, it might be wise to speak with a little charity from time to time. Additionally, there's the possibility that what we say might affect recruiting, you never know. I think we can all agree that it's been a frustrating last couple of months, and disappointing. Let's just practice what we hopefully learned at Gonzaga about a bit of charity as we speak our opinions.

Pargo the Destroyer
05-17-2013, 07:15 PM
No, that's ridiculous. Just that there should always be the notion in the back of our minds that family does read the board, and as such, it might be wise to speak with a little charity from time to time. Additionally, there's the possibility that what we say might affect recruiting, you never know. I think we can all agree that it's been a frustrating last couple of months, and disappointing. Let's just practice what we hopefully learned at Gonzaga about a bit of charity as we speak our opinions.

Agreed, Web. Frustrating to say the least. I hope they do contribute at some point. Either way, they get a helluv an education in the meantime. Good on them

DixieZag
05-18-2013, 09:50 AM
That wasnt at you Dixie, just an overall vibe. I wasn't singling you out per se, although I acknowledge I quoted your post. My bad there. Besides we can't be saying negative things on this board because god forbid a players parent will read something unsightly. The board should be renamed "GuBoards, a place where only nice things are said, screw reality".

Well, I hope that we can have reality - good and bad - but without personally mocking someone on the board that disagrees.

Oregonzagnut
05-18-2013, 02:04 PM
I understand that certain hospitals are offering "fan reassignment" surgery.

As I said to my cousin Paul - now Pauline - you can't sit on the fence forever.

Go Bulldogs!

My fence has Gonzaga on both sides so when I fall off I know where I am at. Its not possible for me to have fan reassignment surgery, I would still be a Zag.

DixieZag
05-18-2013, 02:15 PM
My fence has Gonzaga on both sides so when I fall off I know where I am at. Its not possible for me to have fan reassignment surgery, I would still be a Zag.

If you came down right on the very middle, you might need a re-reassignment!

I have a ladder on both sides so that when I am chased from one to. . .