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View Full Version : Top 40 2013 Class Rankings....Where is GU?



Zippyzaggy
05-14-2013, 10:10 AM
Here are today's updated class rankings for 2013:

http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/classrankings?action=login

Highly touted Andrew Wiggens, a pretty good friend of Kevin Pangos, but apparently not that good, decided to go to Kansas.

As I scan down the list of the Top 40 teams I notice that Gonzaga is completely MIA. Pretty embarrassing for a team that was ranked #1 in the country, attained a #1 seed, and with all that we've accomplished over the last decade and change we are not doing better recruiting.

Yes, we are doing very well with what we get....but we need to be in the top 40, don't ya think?

BYU is in at #14.

GoZags
05-14-2013, 10:17 AM
Gonzaga has never had a Scout.com Top 25 recruiting class and the class with Daye and Sacre snuck into the Rivals.com Top 25. That this years class is unranked is hardly a news flash.

cjm720
05-14-2013, 10:20 AM
A pretty glaring example of how difficult it is for GU to recruit AND how we've done more with less.

Zippyzaggy
05-14-2013, 10:22 AM
Gonzaga has never had a Scout.com Top 25 recruiting class and the class with Daye and Sacre snuck into the Rivals.com Top 25. That this years class is unranked is hardly a news flash.

Nobody said anything about a news flash. But don't take your shades off.

So what if we've never had a top 25 ranking? It's about time! Gonzaga has accomplished more than enough that it should at least should be cracking the TOP 40. TCU & BYU seem to have no problem with it.

CaliforniaZaggin'
05-14-2013, 10:31 AM
Discussing the rankings of individual recruits and schools' recruiting classes is fun, but it ultimately means nothing at all. Players' performances once they arrive on campus is all that matters.

sittingon50
05-14-2013, 11:00 AM
These ranking are generally somewhat skewed by the # of stars all the bodies add up to. The more bodies you have coming in, the more chance for stars to add up. GU only has 2 recruits (at the moment) & neither is highly regarded by the services (Edwards has 2 things going against him:
a. He plays in Montana
b. He doesn't play AAU).

Bottom line, which is more important:
1. A highly regarded recruiting class?
2. A #1 ranking?
3. A #1 seed?

ZAGGED OUT
05-14-2013, 11:08 AM
Pretty irrelevant this year. Our backcourt is completely set, including depth players. Our front court, we just didn't have the time to go recruit. Had we known the transformation Kelly would make and that he would declare, I'm sure they would have been on some 2013 bigs. They didn't however, and that's why we're so active in the transfer market right now. Look for big classes in 2014 and probably 15 as well to see the change you want.

Vanzagger
05-14-2013, 11:14 AM
All the top kids want to go to Kansas. It's beautiful. And the culture....

Vanzagger
05-14-2013, 11:32 AM
A pretty glaring example of how difficult it is for GU to recruit AND how we've done more with less.
Kids on NBA summer league rosters last year. We are blessed that coach keeps finding ways to squeak out these round of 64 wins.

thespywhozaggedme
05-14-2013, 11:43 AM
Here are today's updated class rankings for 2013:

http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/classrankings?action=login

Highly touted Andrew Wiggens, a pretty good friend of Kevin Pangos, but apparently not that good, decided to go to Kansas.

As I scan down the list of the Top 40 teams I notice that Gonzaga is completely MIA. Pretty embarrassing for a team that was ranked #1 in the country, attained a #1 seed, and with all that we've accomplished over the last decade and change we are not doing better recruiting.

Yes, we are doing very well with what we get....but we need to be in the top 40, don't ya think?

BYU is in at #14.

His brother currently plays at Wichita State and both of his parents went to Florida State, so apparently friends and family were not a deciding factor.

CDC84
05-14-2013, 11:56 AM
No concerns when it comes to 2013.

I would have concerns if 2014 produced a similiar result. Especially when you consider how many elite recruits GU is pursuing.

HenneZag
05-14-2013, 12:00 PM
2013 initially was a support class, we didn't expect KO to leave this year,we are currently stacked at the guard positions. From the 2013 recruiting standpoint last year we didn't need much, well times have changed and since Spangler left and now KO being gone we find ourselves in a bit of a pickle.

I didn't expect us to be in the rankings for the 2013 recruiting class, we rarely are. Next year is a different story, we will need to bring in some real fire power.

cjm720
05-14-2013, 12:28 PM
Kids on NBA summer league rosters last year. We are blessed that coach keeps finding ways to squeak out these round of 64 wins.

A backhanded compliment to coach...I contend WCC softens us a bit. Add a little bad luck and here we are.

Zippyzaggy
05-14-2013, 01:55 PM
Discussing the rankings of individual recruits and schools' recruiting classes is fun, but it ultimately means nothing at all. Players' performances once they arrive on campus is all that matters.

I agree, mostly. But, there is also the fact that teams perenially ranked in the top 25 in recruiitng classes tend to have better winning percentages than those who are not.

So there is some merit to being ranked in the top 25....although you still have to perform.

I don't know. I'm just geting anxious because it seems like we've stagnated of late scoring recruits when it feels like we should have turned the corner. It seems to have started last year with Skylar Spencer, Rotnei Clark, and a few other names that escape me.

Not giving up hope just yet.....but soon, lol.

Zippyzaggy
05-14-2013, 01:58 PM
His brother currently plays at Wichita State and both of his parents went to Florida State, so apparently friends and family were not a deciding factor.

Too bad we couldn't have done a "mind meld" (Star Trek) between him and Moser. Apparently Moser being close to home was pretty huge. As well as the development of one year transfers.

Pargo the Destroyer
05-14-2013, 02:32 PM
No concerns when it comes to 2013.

I would have concerns if 2014 produced a similiar result. Especially when you consider how many elite recruits GU is pursuing.

I would worry. The guards won't make every shot and Sam doesn't like to board. So that leaves shrek.

GoZags
05-14-2013, 02:39 PM
Nobody said anything about a news flash. But don't take your shades off.

So what if we've never had a top 25 ranking? It's about time! Gonzaga has accomplished more than enough that it should at least should be cracking the TOP 40. TCU & BYU seem to have no problem with it.

Since the start of Gonzaga's "cute little run" i.e. the back to back to back Sweet 16's (or beyond) '99 - '01 -- here are the number of seasons (out of 12) that the top ranked schools have appeared in the AP Top 25. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be on this list than the list of top recruiting classes. Sure -- it'd be nice to be on both lists -- but it sure seems to me that despite the lack of a recent trip to the 2nd weekend of the dance, the Zags are doing okay. Sure, they're no TCU or BYU..... and I guess that's too bad for some folks who proclaim embarrassment that the Zags aren't up to TCU or BYU's standards.

T1 12 Gonzaga
T1 12 Syracuse
T1 12 Duke
T1 12 North Carolina
T1 12 Connecticut
T1 12 Florida
T1 12 Kansas
T1 12 Pittsburgh
T1 12 Kentucky
T2 11 Michigan State
T2 11 Louisville
T2 11 Memphis
T2 11 Wisconsin
T3 10 Texas
T3 10 Notre Dame
T3 10 Arizona
T3 10 Illinois
T4 9 Marquette
T4 9 Georgetown
T4 9 Cincinnati
T5 8 UCLA
T5 8 Ohio State
T5 8 Xavier
T6 7 Butler
T6 7 Wake Forest
T6 7 Indiana
T6 7 West Virginia
T6 7 Maryland
T6 7 Oklahoma
T6 7 Missouri

http://statsheet.com/mcb/rankings/report_most_in_the_top/2001-2002

primal23
05-14-2013, 03:18 PM
I would worry. The guards won't make every shot and Sam doesn't like to board. So that leaves shrek.

This and God forbid a big get hurt....

JAGzag
05-14-2013, 05:33 PM
Since the start of Gonzaga's "cute little run" i.e. the back to back to back Sweet 16's (or beyond) '99 - '01 -- here are the number of seasons (out of 12) that the top ranked schools have appeared in the AP Top 25. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be on this list than the list of top recruiting classes. Sure -- it'd be nice to be on both lists -- but it sure seems to me that despite the lack of a recent trip to the 2nd weekend of the dance, the Zags are doing okay. Sure, they're no TCU or BYU..... and I guess that's too bad for some folks who proclaim embarrassment that the Zags aren't up to TCU or BYU's standards.

T1 12 Gonzaga
T1 12 Syracuse
T1 12 Duke
T1 12 North Carolina
T1 12 Connecticut
T1 12 Florida
T1 12 Kansas
T1 12 Pittsburgh
T1 12 Kentucky
T2 11 Michigan State
T2 11 Louisville
T2 11 Memphis
T2 11 Wisconsin
T3 10 Texas
T3 10 Notre Dame
T3 10 Arizona
T3 10 Illinois
T4 9 Marquette
T4 9 Georgetown
T4 9 Cincinnati
T5 8 UCLA
T5 8 Ohio State
T5 8 Xavier
T6 7 Butler
T6 7 Wake Forest
T6 7 Indiana
T6 7 West Virginia
T6 7 Maryland
T6 7 Oklahoma
T6 7 Missouri

http://statsheet.com/mcb/rankings/report_most_in_the_top/2001-2002

I'm as big a Zags fan around but even I'm not drunk enough on the cool aide to miss that beating up on the WCC for 13 years and collecting 12-14 "extra" wins a season doesn't greatly contribute to this stat. Point is we need better recruits to compete on a higher level.

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-14-2013, 06:03 PM
What do Dan Dickau, Adam Morrison, and Kelly Olynyk have in common? None of them were Top 100 recruits, but they were developed into First-Team AP All-Americans after a few years in the Gonzaga system.

The class that had Kelly Olynyk, Elias Harris, Sam Dower, and Mangisto Arop was unranked. One recruiting service ranked Bol Kong as the best player in the group. If you went back and ranked it retroactively, it might be a Top-10 class.

GoZags
05-14-2013, 06:35 PM
I'm as big a Zags fan around but even I'm not drunk enough on the cool aide to miss that beating up on the WCC for 13 years and collecting 12-14 "extra" wins a season doesn't greatly contribute to this stat. Point is we need better recruits to compete on a higher level.

Huh?

I don't think ANYONE is disputing the point that better recruits would help.

I'm certainly not. Few certainly hasn't.

I will certainly dispute your point that being a member of the WCC allows Gonzaga to collect 12-14 "extra" wins a season. That statement makes zero sense to me.

It's sure to bad that the guboard's message board experts aren't in charge .... things would be so much better.

JAGzag
05-14-2013, 07:09 PM
Huh?

I don't think ANYONE is disputing the point that better recruits would help.

I'm certainly not. Few certainly hasn't.

I will certainly dispute your point that being a member of the WCC allows Gonzaga to collect 12-14 "extra" wins a season. That statement makes zero sense to me.

It's sure to bad that the guboard's message board experts aren't in charge .... things would be so much better.

Huh?

Your above post states you'd rather have a top 25 season over a top rated class, correct? You proclaim we're are doing "okay" despite not being able to advance past the first weekend, presumably based on your data of being ranked. My point is if we're in a tougher conference we don't accumulate 12-14 extra wins EVERY season thus allowing the opportunity for national ranking (years like last excluded).

GoZags
05-14-2013, 07:36 PM
I understand your point that you believe Gomzaga benefits with 12-14 "extra" wins per year by playing in the WCC. I disagree. On two levels. 1. The WCC was ranked 10 out of 31 D1 conferences. Your point would indicate Ginzaga would only win 2-4 conference games per year in another conference. 2. If Gonzaga played in another conference (ie higher rated) its doubtful that they would play an incredibly aggressive OCC.

I have a hard time seeing GU at 13 - 16 wins a year in a power conference.

willandi
05-14-2013, 07:42 PM
I agree, mostly. But, there is also the fact that teams perenially ranked in the top 25 in recruiitng classes tend to have better winning percentages than those who are not.

So there is some merit to being ranked in the top 25....although you still have to perform.

I don't know. I'm just geting anxious because it seems like we've stagnated of late scoring recruits when it feels like we should have turned the corner. It seems to have started last year with Skylar Spencer, Rotnei Clark, and a few other names that escape me.

Not giving up hope just yet.....but soon, lol.

So, which active coaches have the highest winning percentage? Few is right there, and has not had a top 25 recruiting class. What am I missing? Oh...that's right. It's all those 'gimme' wins in the WCC. Yeah, right!

bostonzagfan
05-14-2013, 07:46 PM
bottom line is that the 2014 class needs to be golden.

2014-2015 season, pangos bell coleman all seniors, shrek a jr, dranginis a jr, frankly we need 1 very good big man to come in and start from the jump. and players at pretty much all positions to keep things up after that.

and for everyone implying that gu doesn't need better recruits/better recruits would not make a big difference... how many sweet 16's has GU made since the initial 3 year run? or do you blame that on few? you can't have it both ways.

if gu has had one of the best coaches in the ncaa and the recruits have been good enough, why haven't the results been better?

for the record, i think for the most part the teams could have used better recruits.

CDC84
05-14-2013, 09:30 PM
I would worry. The guards won't make every shot and Sam doesn't like to board. So that leaves shrek.

You can blame Kelly Olynyk :)

I worry about the frontcourt as well next year if Gonzaga doesn't land a big guy like Josh Davis, but I don't blame the situation on Gonzaga's 2013 recruiting. The staff had to recruit 2013 with the idea that their 2013/14 frontcourt rotation would consist of Kelly Olynyk, Sam Dower and Karnowski. They had no idea Kelly would eventually develop into a possible lottery pick. It is highly unlikely that Gonzaga would have been able to land a top 75 level big man with the frontcourt rotation they had in place. By the time KO became a sure fire NBA guy, the November signing period had well passed. It was either compete against Kentucky for a late signee like Julius Randle, or hope for a top notch grad transfer. The two guys they are bringing in next year are about the only guys who would've committed knowing how stacked GU was in the frontcourt.

Pargo the Destroyer
05-14-2013, 09:35 PM
You can blame Kelly Olynyk :)

I worry about the frontcourt as well next year if Gonzaga doesn't land a big guy like Josh Davis, but I don't blame the situation on Gonzaga's 2013 recruiting. The staff had to recruit 2013 with the idea that their 2013/14 frontcourt rotation would consist of Kelly Olynyk, Sam Dower and Karnowski. They had no idea Kelly would eventually develop into a possible lottery pick. It is highly unlikely that Gonzaga would have been able to land a top 75 level big man with the frontcourt rotation they had in place. By the time KO became a sure fire NBA guy, the November signing period had well passed. It was either compete against Kentucky for a late signee like Julius Randle, or hope for a top notch grad transfer. The two guys they are bringing in next year are about the only guys who would've committed knowing how stacked GU was in the frontcourt.


Completely agree there. Not looking to point a finger at the coaches. It is what it is. I just hate falling back on the ole standard "we'll be fine" mantra when it's clear there is a dire need for a big body upfront that can play. But then again, it's not good to borrow trouble. My faith is there that a capable 4 or 5 is out there ready to roll come October.

BTB
05-14-2013, 11:50 PM
Louisville (who, btw, had exactly 3 players listed over 6'6" that averaged over 10 minutes per game) won a national championship. Gonzaga has 3 players (for the 2nd half of the season), plus any possible transfers, that meet this criteria coming back next year. We will be alright people.

ZagaZags
05-15-2013, 12:56 AM
The run is over.

gonwick
05-15-2013, 04:47 AM
I don't think that gu's shorties are Louisville caliber, but i appreciate the sentiment. I don't quite know why 2013 was such a limited recruiting class. It was probably perceived lack of playing time, but if that is the case, how did we get two transfers? Hopefully 2014 will be much much better. Also, top 25 rankings and career wins for few are inflated by the WCC. That is something that should be beyond debate.

SteelCityZag
05-15-2013, 05:20 AM
Since this began as a thread about the Top 40 recruiting classes, I'll try to bring it back there.

Guess who else is missing from the list? Butler. They made two Final Fours and back-to-back Championship games. You'd think they'd be outraged they're not on this list.

But here's the deal. There are no other schools on this list who can be truly classified as being from a mid-major conference except...BYU. And we know they have a specialized recruiting base.

There's nothing new in this list. More kids are willing to bank on bigger schools from BCS conferences. This is why the Gonzaga brand, while strong, is not yet strong enough to sway some kids who are considering BCS programs. Plus, this list places value on the sheer number of recruits...you have to have spots available, which will always favor the Kentucky's of the world who have to reload One-and-Done players every year. Do we want to be that school? I don't think so.

GU has a specialized recruiting niche. We don't play the AAU recruitment game. We don't accept partial qualifiers. We expect kids to attend class and graduate. We expect kids to play team ball and play well with their teammates. In short, we set the bar pretty high. Let's not act surprised that part of our recipe is doing less with more.

Does anyone remember the quote that went something like "Gonzaga takes guys you've never heard of, turns them into to stars, then replaces them with more guys you never heard of."? I think that sums up our recruitment options/strategy pretty well.

We aren't Duke. The GU brand is not (yet) such that we're going to get any kid we want. We're fighting an uphill battle, and we're doing a damn good job at it. (Just ask all the schools who've made big runs in the NCAA's and faded away into oblivion.

Our recruiting ranking has consistently vacillated between Top 100 and Top 25, depending on the year, number of open schollies, available willing talent, etc. This won't change until we change conferences.

Just watch Butler over the next few years. They've done (arguably) even more with less than we have. And they're recruiting hasn't changed much and won't change until they're into the new Big East. And even then, the league itself will have to prove it's worthy of its salt all over again.

GeorgiaZagFan
05-15-2013, 06:06 AM
Kids on NBA summer league rosters last year. We are blessed that coach keeps finding ways to squeak out these round of 64 wins.

7 is NOT a very large number ...considering HOW many players are on those rosters ...

Bing
05-15-2013, 07:45 AM
Huh?

Your above post states you'd rather have a top 25 season over a top rated class, correct? You proclaim we're are doing "okay" despite not being able to advance past the first weekend, presumably based on your data of being ranked. My point is if we're in a tougher conference we don't accumulate 12-14 extra wins EVERY season thus allowing the opportunity for national ranking (years like last excluded).

You wouldn't rather have a top 25 season over a top 25 recruiting class? Even Chedwiggen would have trouble defending that position.

Oregonzagnut
05-15-2013, 08:19 AM
that will 99% of the time have better recruiting than us. ON PAPER!!

Duke, UNC, Miami, NC St, Florida St
Louisville, Georgetown, Syracuse, Notre Dame
Indiana, Ohio St, Mich, Mich St
Kansas, Kansas St, OK St, Illinois, Missouri, West Virginia
UCLA, USC, Arizona, Washington, Cal
Kentucky, Florida, Ark, Tenn....

These are just the traditional powerhouses. I would bet money that every BCS school would likely out-recruit us.

To kids, bigger is better. and big fish like big ponds especially with big names in big markets.

And I am not even going to include the rest of the ACC, Big 10, Big 12 and the entire list BCS schools that will usually have better recruiting classes than us.

Gonzaga has a big name but Spokane isn't a destination spot. In spite of a Jesuit education being the best possible all around learning experience, Gonzaga is still a little engine that could, and still does.

Even if for the next 10 years, BYU out recruits us (on paper) Gonzaga will still be the better team.

CDC84
05-15-2013, 09:07 AM
The problem with class recruiting rankings is that they completely ignore team needs. They don't take into account how many returning players you have and such. Arizona may have a year where they only need two guys to fill niche roles. So one guy might be ranked at #88 and another at #121. It's not a bad class because that is what they needed based on their returning players and other circumstances. These rankings are inherently biased towards teams that either have a large intake of players or who bring in one powerhouse player along the lines of Andrew Wiggins.

CDC84
05-15-2013, 09:31 AM
that will 99% of the time have better recruiting than us. ON PAPER!!

Duke, UNC, Miami, NC St, Florida St
Louisville, Georgetown, Syracuse, Notre Dame
Indiana, Ohio St, Mich, Mich St
Kansas, Kansas St, OK St, Illinois, Missouri, West Virginia
UCLA, USC, Arizona, Washington, Cal
Kentucky, Florida, Ark, Tenn....

These are just the traditional powerhouses. I would bet money that every BCS school would likely out-recruit us.

The only schools that Gonzaga really struggles to compete with for players are blue blood/factory schools. Schools like Duke, UNC, Syracuse, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. California is not a factory school. Gonzaga beat the Golden Bears for two guys on their roster: Karnowski and Dower. West Virginia is not close to being a factory school. I would pick GU to win almost any recruiting battle against them. Despite their bad luck vs. blue bloods in recruiting, GU has still been able to grab some of these coveted players. Gary Bell bypassed UCLA to go to GU. Josh Heytvelt bypassed everyone from UNC to Kansas to attend GU. Matt Bouldin bypassed UConn to attend GU. Austin Daye, if he had allowed his recruitment to go on, would've had several blue bloods after him.

Teams like Notre Dame, Florida State, etc., tend to recruit players from their home region. The GU staff generally is not going to battle Notre Dame for some Indiana or Ohio kid when they can recruit comparable players out west or internationally. If Notre Dame tried to battle Gonzaga for a player from San Francisco, I would favor GU big time. Obviously, in years past, GU has struggled to get many players out of Seattle, but for different reasons that are too long to elaborate on.

In essence, I think Gonzaga's recruiting brand name is better than you're giving it credit for, but yes, people shouldn't be getting all crazy if GU isn't able to take a player away from Duke or Arizona. The bottom line is that this program is capable of fielding a roster mostly consisting of top 100 level, high major players, whether they come from the states or internationally. The top 7 players in Gonzaga's 2008/09 rotation were all top 80 players with one recruiting service or another. Most of them were top 50. It's not foreign to the program.

bballbeachbum
05-15-2013, 09:39 AM
It's sure to bad that the guboard's message board experts aren't in charge .... things would be so much better.

man, no ####.

bballbeachbum
05-15-2013, 09:46 AM
In essence, I think Gonzaga's recruiting brand name is better than you're giving it credit for, but yes, people shouldn't be getting all crazy if GU isn't able to take a player away from Duke or Arizona. The bottom line is that this program is capable of fielding a roster mostly consisting of top 100 level, high major players, whether they come from the states or internationally. The top 7 players in Gonzaga's 2008/09 rotation were all top 80 players with one recruiting service or another. Most of them were top 50. It's not foreign to the program.

+1

you all got it way better than you believe--my outsider's opinion.

and I want a FF too, there's no laurel resting in my desires. Whining doesn't corner the market on wanting a FF

Zippyzaggy
05-15-2013, 01:59 PM
So, which active coaches have the highest winning percentage? Few is right there, and has not had a top 25 recruiting class. What am I missing? Oh...that's right. It's all those 'gimme' wins in the WCC. Yeah, right!

I'd love to argue with you but....I think your argument is meant for JAGzag, You quoted me, but I never said anything about, or agreed, with the so called extra wins we get by being in the WCC. I had partially agreed with CaliforniaZaggin'....better aim next time huh? lol

titopoet
05-15-2013, 02:23 PM
Can I point out the obvious about GU's recruiting. For the record lets look at a few of the recent past players that have made GU: Kelly Olynyk, Elias Harris, Kevin Pangos, Robert Scare. Last year GU out dual the likes of Cal, Duke and Kansas for the services of Karno. Currently the rumor is that Loyd is on heavy to bring in Domantas Sabonis. (Major move as if he was in the states we are talking 5 star recruit. Yes, he is that good and a chip of the old block)

GU has become a Mecca of Foreign born players. If (and when) the scouting sites get around to rating foreign players, Gu will move up in recruiting sites. They had recruiting class that if Foreign players we rank, they would have been top ten. Is there any doubt that the class that brought in Harris, Olynyk, Dower was one of the best in the country, at least top ten. But only Dower got scouting love. Those dang ferriners, brought down that recruiting class in ranking but certainly not in talent. Few doesn't do more with less, he just searches within a wide net.

There is a reason that Mark Titus lovingly called the Zags the Foreigners.