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View Full Version : With no time coming off shot clock, rules committee eyes other changes to add points



CDC84
05-13-2013, 08:16 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-05-09/ncaa-basketball-rule-changes-shot-clock-officiating-block-charge-nabc


Instead, the committee is pursuing changes in how the game is being officiated in order to give offenses a better chance.

The most obvious move is a redefinition of the charge/block call. In past years, a defender had to be in legal guarding position on an advancing ballhandler before he left the floor to attempt a shot. Now, the rules committee wants to make it so the defender “is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his upward motion with the ball to attempt a field goal or pass. If the defensive player is not in legal guarding position by this time, it is a blocking foul.”

The rules committee believes this will give officials more time to assess whether the call should be a charge or block.


The committee also will push for greater freedom of movement for offensive players by asking officials to call personal fouls more consistently, throughout the game and the season, in instances where defenders keep a constant hand or forearm on an opponent; when a defender places two hands on the opponent; when a defender jabs at an opponent by extending his arm and when any player uses an arm bar to interrupt an opponent’s movement.

“These probably were more incremental than what some people thought might happen, and thought should happen,” Byrd said. “When rules changes are made, it’s a little more difficult to write the rule in a real effective way than to have this hypothesis that we need better offense.”

Obviously, a lot of this falls onto officials to follow the course set for them by the rules committee. This isn’t the first time there have been directives to clean up physicality in the game. When he was chair of the rules committee in 2000, Roy Williams made a hard push in that direction and mostly met with resistance from coaches who saw him as promoting the interests of his own highly skilled, fast break-oriented teams.

As with many such situations, officials called the games more tightly for a while, then fell back into their own habits as they entered the comforts of conference play.

Hoopaholic
05-13-2013, 08:46 AM
Just call the rule book fairly, consistently from start to finish that is the biggest area of improvement needed......

thickman1
05-13-2013, 08:55 AM
Just call the rule book fairly, consistently from start to finish that is the biggest area of improvement needed......

+1

willandi
05-13-2013, 09:12 AM
But they didn't adress the hacking, holding etc. that has been used to handle the Zags bigs for several years!

CDC84
05-13-2013, 09:42 AM
As is always the case, none of the rules changes will mean anything unless college basketball rids itself of its bad officials. That won't happen until all officiating - both in the regular season and postseason - is handled by a national, centralized coodinator(s) of officials.

CaliforniaZaggin'
05-13-2013, 10:53 AM
Remember Rock 'n' Jock Basketball on MTV? How 'bout some of that? The 25-point shot would certainly help scoring.

...or perhaps we should't be tinkering with things that aren't broken.

willandi
05-13-2013, 10:58 AM
...or perhaps we should't be tinkering with things that aren't broken.
You don't believe NCAA basketball officiating isn't broken? Interesting!

duper
05-14-2013, 08:20 AM
I'm not sure why they feel they need more scoring. I don't personally want to watch 100 pt games, i would rather watch a good basketball game then some all-star type run and dunk show. I know i'm in the minority on my next point but to me the defense has been limited to much. "LET THEM PLAY" basketball is and always has been a contact sport. I hate hand checking but physical defense I love, i hate that it appears the offense can just dribble into the defense throw up the ball and get a foul called, officials need to look more at who initiated the contact IMHO.

gamagin
05-14-2013, 08:28 AM
interesting stuff. I think one way to speed up games would be to have better replay equipment on hand, or maybe even a booth ref to review calls and change or keep them, like in football.

A LOT of time is wasted and essentially an extra timeout occurs (sometimes warranted and sometimes not) vis a vis the call for checking a call -- especially in the waning minutes of just about every game. If some guy steps on the line, a good piece of equipment can rerun the last 50-10-15 (or whatever) seconds while the refs are considering whether to review it and be ready, instead of creating the delay through the current process.

It's a momentum killer as well as a time waster which favors those in need of a huddle. and it could be unnecessary. imo.

CDC84
05-14-2013, 08:56 AM
One rule that needs to immediately go into place when it comes to replay situations is that the players on the floor should have to remain on the floor, away from their bench, while the play is under review. Replays should not be used as team timeouts. We saw at least two instances in the NCAA tournament where a team who had no timeouts was able to set up a play for a game winning shot due to replay review. Teams being able to use these situations for team timeouts also extends the delay time because officials, after they have made a ruling, have to go to both benches to break up the huddles. They should make their ruling, explain it to both coaches at center court, and play ball.

Also...and I have been harping on this for years....when a player fouls out, the remaining players on the floor should have to remain on the floor. No huddling at the bench. The disqualified player should immediately leave the floor and the coach should immediately insert his substitute. The big production that takes place after a player fouls out is a major, '"hidden" cause of game delays.

We are just going to have to put up with TV ads and replay delays, but there are other things officials can do to speed up the game.

CaliforniaZaggin'
05-14-2013, 09:04 AM
You don't believe NCAA basketball officiating isn't broken? Interesting!

The rules themselves? No. The quality of the officiating? That's another story.

willandi
05-14-2013, 09:45 AM
The rules themselves? No. The quality of the officiating? That's another story.

OK I'll buy that!:cheers::cheers:

bigblahla
05-14-2013, 10:22 AM
The way the game is called is my major pet peeve.

Just follow the darn rulebook.

I never got to put a hand on an opposing offensive player who had the ball without it being called a foul. Two hands ala the foul by Jones against KO in the Butler game is an automatic call yet goes unheeded by a ref looking directly at the play. Subjective officiating has been and is what's suffocating college hoops.

Just my opinion.

GO!! Zags!!!

maynard g krebs
05-14-2013, 11:18 AM
"LET THEM PLAY" basketball is and always has been a contact sport.

Not true. A few years back, Bud Withers got together with Wooden, Marv Harshman, and Pete Newell and wrote a wonderful piece on their conversation.
Newell, the big man guru, talked about how the rule is (was) "daylight in the post"; i.e. you need to be able to see daylight between the offensive and defensive post players. Whoever gets to their spot first has the spot; the opposing player, whether O or D, cannot make contact and push the other player from their spot. The only exception to that was boxing out on rebounds, which is something that doesn't impede offensive play.

I started playing and watching basketball in the early 60's and never heard the phrase "LET THEM PLAY" until maybe fifteen years ago, give or take. What it really means is let them hold, push and hack. And it has made the game borderline unwatchable most of the time. There are countless games now where the score is 16-12 or 14-11 with 5 minutes left in the half. It's like offenses are playing in mud. Ironically, "LET THEM PLAY" means let them prevent them from playing.

Wooden's teams scored 100 fairly often, as did all the better teams of the era. And it wasn't by playing allstar dunk show basketball; quite the opposite, they passed and cut with precision and skill, and it was a thing of beauty to watch.

Basketball at its best is an offensive game, and that is what it is when the rules are enforced properly, which hasn't been the case for the last 20 years or so.

Hoopaholic
05-14-2013, 11:39 AM
foul out situation can be corrected by ENFORCING the current rules that are already on the books.......upon 5th foul notification, bench is notified and the 30 second clock is started. Player must be at the check in before the END of the 30 seconds or it is delay of game and technical foul assessed. Would QUICKLY end the stretching of this rule IF ENFORCED consistently

Enforce the rule and you wont have hidden timeout use by coaches....


The huddling during review MUST stop. That is an unfair advantage to those who have used up their timeouts in critical moments of the game.(Not a fan of the reviews but apparently they are here to stay).
Instead hire a review official, who immediately reviews and has 30 seconds to make decision and lets get back to the game

CDC84
05-14-2013, 12:51 PM
foul out situation can be corrected by ENFORCING the current rules that are already on the books.......upon 5th foul notification, bench is notified and the 30 second clock is started. Player must be at the check in before the END of the 30 seconds or it is delay of game and technical foul assessed. Would QUICKLY end the stretching of this rule IF ENFORCED consistently

Enforce the rule and you wont have hidden timeout use by coaches....

St. Joe's coach Phil Martelli got nailed with a T at the Kennel several years back for not making a substitution for a disqualified player quickly enough. Of course he was livid, because the rule is rarely enforced. This was several years ago, and I haven't seen a T called for a situation like this since.

Again, none of these issues are going to get resolved, nor any ignored rules consistently enforced unless there is a national coordinator(s) of officials who controls regular season and postseason officiating. A guy who can lay down the law, set points of emphasis, and fire officials at the division one level at any point for not doing their job properly. There's too much patronage and recycling of officials when these things are handled at the conference level.

duper
05-14-2013, 06:40 PM
Not true. A few years back, Bud Withers got together with Wooden, Marv Harshman, and Pete Newell and wrote a wonderful piece on their conversation.
Newell, the big man guru, talked about how the rule is (was) "daylight in the post"; i.e. you need to be able to see daylight between the offensive and defensive post players. Whoever gets to their spot first has the spot; the opposing player, whether O or D, cannot make contact and push the other player from their spot. The only exception to that was boxing out on rebounds, which is something that doesn't impede offensive play.

I started playing and watching basketball in the early 60's and never heard the phrase "LET THEM PLAY" until maybe fifteen years ago, give or take. What it really means is let them hold, push and hack. And it has made the game borderline unwatchable most of the time. There are countless games now where the score is 16-12 or 14-11 with 5 minutes left in the half. It's like offenses are playing in mud. Ironically, "LET THEM PLAY" means let them prevent them from playing.

Wooden's teams scored 100 fairly often, as did all the better teams of the era. And it wasn't by playing allstar dunk show basketball; quite the opposite, they passed and cut with precision and skill, and it was a thing of beauty to watch.

Basketball at its best is an offensive game, and that is what it is when the rules are enforced properly, which hasn't been the case for the last 20 years or so.
Maybe he was adjusting to the game but that nowhere near what Pete Newell taught at his big man camps in mid 80's or what he wrote in his various books. Read Pete's rules for playing defense in the post.

sylean
05-14-2013, 07:06 PM
I hope this isn't trying to make college bb....known for teamwork,passing, shooting and defense into me-me-me nba bb....yuck...