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View Full Version : Elias, Dellavedova not invited to Chicago



ZagFanatic
05-10-2013, 09:47 AM
Kelly's on the list. Looking at the guys on the list, I'm surprised Elias isn't there, as he could certainly hold his own with a lot of them, and I'm really surprised Dellavedova isn't getting a look either. It's a shame for both of them.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22224907/nba-draft-combine-releases-list-of-participants

hondo
05-10-2013, 09:56 AM
This is exactly why I have lost all interest in the NBA.
Guys who play team ball need not apply.

SteelCityZag
05-10-2013, 09:58 AM
This is exactly why I have lost all interest in the NBA.
Guys who play team ball need not apply.

Hondo's got it right. NBA = Waste Of TIME.

jbslicer
05-10-2013, 10:08 AM
NBA playoffs are pretty exciting. Tonight's Golden State game vs. San Antonio should be fun to watch.

CanadianZagFan
05-10-2013, 10:19 AM
While I do agree that the NBA and the NCAA are two completely different games, there are only 61 spots at the draft combine, very tough to get that invite.

I would love to see the NBA go to 3 rounds of drafting and better utilize the NBADL, maybe have players that can sign minor league only contracts that don't go against the cap till you call them up to the big club...

There will always be players that get snubbed, but team ball does happen in the NBA and many great TEAM PLAYERS have had great careers in the league.

VaBeachZAG
05-10-2013, 10:21 AM
I to have had no interest in the NBA for a long long time. I can thank of a million more important and pleasurable things to do on a Friday night than watch an NBA game. Having said that, I do feel bad for EH and Delly. On the bright side for those guys, they can still make a ton of cash playing over-seas.

GorgeZag
05-10-2013, 10:21 AM
I'm no fan of the NBA these days and I'd love to see one of our greats get a invite, but after that last game I'm not surprised.

( maybe he'll a training camp invite, if not he'll still make some money in Europe. )

jimmy b
05-10-2013, 10:47 AM
NBA playoffs are pretty exciting. Tonight's Golden State game vs. San Antonio should be fun to watch.

I have to agree. Every year I think that I'm over it and get drawn in.

This series is especially interesting. Also cool to see players that I've felt were bound for stardom, such as Curry and Clay, realize it. Paddy Mills in this series too but not getting minutes.

Enjoying Nate the Great too, though never thought he was as good as he is playing. Still, I've always enjoyed watching him.

Some things were obvious from the college games, such as seeing Kevin Durant torch the zags, or Kleiza get every rebound or loose ball, that predicted the NBA.

I think Delly belongs there too, and hope he and Elias get at least a shot.
Not to bag on WCC, but I think that plus Zags being viewed by many as paper tiger, impacts the stature of best players in league. We'll see where Kelly goes.

webspinnre
05-10-2013, 11:09 AM
I mostly don't watch the NBA, up until the playoffs, then I'll start paying attention. Being in the Bay area, I've particularly paid attention to the Warriors playoff games, and those have been great.

hooter73
05-10-2013, 11:38 AM
This is exactly why I have lost all interest in the NBA.
Guys who play team ball need not apply.

It sucks but Harris played himself right out of the NBA by being a really good college player. Figure that one out and you'll figure out why I dont watch the NBA. Still feel bad for him though.

Dova will go the way of Mills imo.

BTB
05-10-2013, 11:57 AM
It sucks but Harris played himself right out of the NBA by being a really good college player. Figure that one out and you'll figure out why I dont watch the NBA. Still feel bad for him though.

Dova will go the way of Mills imo.

Wait, what? He played himself out of the NBA by being good? Seemed like he played himself out of the NBA by not progressing like he could have and proving that he didn't have the skillset to be a great NBA player. Not hating on Elias, he's one of my favorite Zags ever and I think he can still make an NBA roster, but he proved that in 4 years he never developed ball-handling skills or a decent outside shot to the level he needs to make an impact in the NBA.

If you all watched the NBA, you would realize that the good teams in the NBA are great TEAMS. They are not full of selfish players, they are full of players that are great teammates and who work their butts off trying to make plays both offensively and defensively.

DixieZag
05-10-2013, 12:19 PM
I respect that some people love it, everyone is different, I just find the NBA unwatchable. To me, basketball is at it best with lots of offensive movement, the ball swinging quickly from player to player and then everyone either crashing the boards or getting out on the break. NBA ball seems to me to be a series of 8 guys standing around watching two play one on one.

I love E, but can't argue that his terrible outside shooting year and overall lack of substantial progress probably leaves him out - - fortunately, E is already very comfortable with the Euro scene, its home to him and I could see him playing 15 years and making damn good money at it over there.

maynard g krebs
05-10-2013, 12:26 PM
If you all watched the NBA, you would realize that the good teams in the NBA are great TEAMS. They are not full of selfish players, they are full of players that are great teammates and who work their butts off trying to make plays both offensively and defensively.

I watched the NBA from about 1964 until the early 90's. It became rigged for the stars and big markets right after Stern took over, but the game on the floor was still watchable until the "bad boy" Pistons w/ Rodman and Laimbeer turned it into hockey. And by then you could predict which big market teams would be in the finals by which superstar they were hyping.

I'd almost say I might give the NBA another look when Stern is gone, but I think Silver will be just as bad. When I stop and watch a minute or 2 of NBA in the gym, I still see mostly the same iso/pick and roll w/ 3 or 4 guys standing around.

15 or so years ago I heard Lionel Hollins on the radio. Allstar guard on the Blazers champ team w/ Walton and Lucas. He was an asst coach for the Vancouver Griz at the time. What he said of interest, paraphrasing: players today don't have the skills we had (I think that part is close to verbatim), so you have to coach differently.

DixieZag
05-10-2013, 12:37 PM
I watched the NBA from about 1964 until the early 90's. It became rigged for the stars and big markets right after Stern took over, but the game on the floor was still watchable until the "bad boy" Pistons w/ Rodman and Laimbeer turned it into hockey. And by then you could predict which big market teams would be in the finals by which superstar they were hyping.

I'd almost say I might give the NBA another look when Stern is gone, but I think Silver will be just as bad. When I stop and watch a minute or 2 of NBA in the gym, I still see mostly the same iso/pick and roll w/ 3 or 4 guys standing around.

15 or so years ago I heard Lionel Hollins on the radio. Allstar guard on the Blazers champ team w/ Walton and Lucas. He was an asst coach for the Vancouver Griz at the time. What he said of interest, paraphrasing: players today don't have the skills we had (I think that part is close to verbatim), so you have to coach differently.

In defense of hockey, at least they are all flying around with tons of speed when not bashing, holding and tackling. J/K

Good point about the over all level of skill, the physicality of the NBA game is phenomenal, the BB skill - not so much.

bballbeachbum
05-10-2013, 01:46 PM
I love E, but can't argue that his terrible outside shooting year and overall lack of substantial progress probably leaves him out - - fortunately, E is already very comfortable with the Euro scene, its home to him and I could see him playing 15 years and making damn good money at it over there.

E could use a top shelf pump fake after he gets to the rim. He doesn't have that, so all seem to know he's going in to explode on the first jump, which is fine, but can be timed, and was. His pump fake doesn't get guys off their feet, just allows defenders to reset, doesn't put them off balance, my opinion.

and hopefully he can workout for some teams so they can see that when he's not double teamed he's got some abilities. Can't imagine him drawing the double team in the NBA

BTB
05-10-2013, 02:41 PM
I watched the NBA from about 1964 until the early 90's. It became rigged for the stars and big markets right after Stern took over, but the game on the floor was still watchable until the "bad boy" Pistons w/ Rodman and Laimbeer turned it into hockey. And by then you could predict which big market teams would be in the finals by which superstar they were hyping.

I'd almost say I might give the NBA another look when Stern is gone, but I think Silver will be just as bad. When I stop and watch a minute or 2 of NBA in the gym, I still see mostly the same iso/pick and roll w/ 3 or 4 guys standing around.

15 or so years ago I heard Lionel Hollins on the radio. Allstar guard on the Blazers champ team w/ Walton and Lucas. He was an asst coach for the Vancouver Griz at the time. What he said of interest, paraphrasing: players today don't have the skills we had (I think that part is close to verbatim), so you have to coach differently.

Very true, there is a LOT of contact in the NBA. I'm just pointing out that the players on good teams still are good teammates, even if they are running the pick n' roll all day long, and generally work really hard offensively and defensively. Usually that hard work only comes out during the playoffs or in big games. The regular season is too long and is pretty boring.

Goshzagit
05-10-2013, 02:52 PM
Surprised about Delly, to be honest, yet not about Elias.

Harris is/was a terrific college basketball player, yet an unknown tweener at the next level. Plus, a virtual no-show at the Tournament this year. Yes, he secured a few boards that came his way, yet his presence on the court was non-existent. No one can argue that. His moxy, toughness, athleticism, mean streak, want-to, simply did.not.show at the NCAA's this season. Not a knock, a reality. Players make and/or break their careers in the tourney. Its literally College bball's version of the NFL combine. You have a week to show what you got. Can you bring it when it counts? Elias did not. He's actually 6'7", not 6'8" and doesn't possess the skills to master any single position at the next level. Versatile, yes, proven, not at all in terms of a position. Even though he was never a SF/3/wing for us, we still used him as such, yet never enough.

College tweeners never make it in the NBA. They just don't, even if good enough to hold their own.

Delly has a place in the League, imho, and will probably get a shot. He was highly effective/solid at the Olympics and even vs Team USA. He looks/plays/acts like he could belong. Elias, on the other hand, disappears too often at the NCAA level to make a serious impact. Plus, where would you put an above average athlete, 6'7", hybrid forward, who can't really shoot from distance or perimeter moves in the NBA. One of my favorite Zags of all-time, if not of all-time, yet not a serious player at the highest level.

On the other hand, I think Olynyk is an NBA star type player in 2-3 years, not kidding. A definite starter down the road.

Zags11
05-10-2013, 02:54 PM
Not really shocked. Its about what you do in ncaa tournament.

Harris stepped up but this yr. Delly isnt that good in ncaa tournament time.

Just my 2 cents

Bogozags
05-10-2013, 05:37 PM
I watched the NBA from about 1964 until the early 90's. It became rigged for the stars and big markets right after Stern took over, but the game on the floor was still watchable until the "bad boy" Pistons w/ Rodman and Laimbeer turned it into hockey. And by then you could predict which big market teams would be in the finals by which superstar they were hyping.

I'd almost say I might give the NBA another look when Stern is gone, but I think Silver will be just as bad. When I stop and watch a minute or 2 of NBA in the gym, I still see mostly the same iso/pick and roll w/ 3 or 4 guys standing around.

15 or so years ago I heard Lionel Hollins on the radio. Allstar guard on the Blazers champ team w/ Walton and Lucas. He was an asst coach for the Vancouver Griz at the time. What he said of interest, paraphrasing: players today don't have the skills we had (I think that part is close to verbatim), so you have to coach differently.

I am with you...I use to love the NBA more the college, even though I'd watch West Coast Basketball every Saturday PM BUT the NBA is not and has not been basketball for over two decades. It is about star power and don't watch it any more regardless of the Commish.

The NBA is like WWF...ENTERTAINMENT not basketball...

Pallet
05-10-2013, 05:57 PM
From an article on Grantland.com:

The pace of in-game play is too slow. Total possessions are the lowest they've been in years, a product of certain teams milking the shot clock (far too long at 35 seconds) on offense and playing the kind of aggressive (read: constantly fouling) defense that inhibits offensive movement and makes it tougher to find a good shot. As Rex Chapman noted in a tweet on Wednesday, the physicality of the college game far exceeds the NBA, and it's killing everything we love about the game team scoring, transitional flow, displays of individual brilliance.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/61717/the-ncaa-basketball-rules-committee-just-failed-the-sport

katman50
05-10-2013, 06:00 PM
Delly will make it in the League. Mark my words!

maynard g krebs
05-10-2013, 06:10 PM
The NBA is like WWF...ENTERTAINMENT not basketball...

Bingo. Transition was complete when Rodman and Karl Malone actually did a pro wrestling gig.

ZagsGoZags
05-10-2013, 06:13 PM
I like watching the semi finals and beyond
because
that is when the teams look more like college effort and caring than any other time

they finally look motivated, and are not afraid of 'wasting' energy unless it is a sure thing

still .... it pales compared to college hoops, IMO

Unbiased
05-10-2013, 06:15 PM
Wait, what? He played himself out of the NBA by being good? Seemed like he played himself out of the NBA by not progressing like he could have and proving that he didn't have the skillset to be a great NBA player. Not hating on Elias, he's one of my favorite Zags ever and I think he can still make an NBA roster, but he proved that in 4 years he never developed ball-handling skills or a decent outside shot to the level he needs to make an impact in the NBA.

Man, I totally disagree. Harris was a team player all the way and it certainly contributed to him not being invited to Chicago. He never was selfish - team play was important to him and he said so on many occasions. If he played like he was the go-to guy, he could have averged 20 a game easily, but to the detriment of the team, especially Kelly. As far as his outside shot, he shot less simply because he was a team player and spent more time looking for rebounds then shooting the the long ball.

I do agree that he needs to hone a few "juke" moves especially pump fakes. But haven't you seen him lead a fast break? His ball handling skills are very good.

ZagLawGrad
05-10-2013, 07:12 PM
The best players get invited. Even the team players.

EH was a great Zag, and will be one of the many to play in Europe, Nothing wrong with that.

BTB
05-10-2013, 07:34 PM
Man, I totally disagree. Harris was a team player all the way and it certainly contributed to him not being invited to Chicago. He never was selfish - team play was important to him and he said so on many occasions. If he played like he was the go-to guy, he could have averged 20 a game easily, but to the detriment of the team, especially Kelly. As far as his outside shot, he shot less simply because he was a team player and spent more time looking for rebounds then shooting the the long ball.

I do agree that he needs to hone a few "juke" moves especially pump fakes. But haven't you seen him lead a fast break? His ball handling skills are very good.

I agree that Elias was a great player for us. He did not show that he can be a good player in the NBA though. His ball handling IS very good for a college power forward. Not for an NBA whatever he is in the NBA (not a PF). His shot has never looked good, but it used to go in; now it doesn't go in. All he has going for him at the NBA level is that he is an OK rebounder and finisher around the rim, but in the NBA players like that are a dime-a-dozen. Do I think he can be successful in the NBA? ABSOLUTELY!! Has he shown the skills he needs to be successful at the NBA level? Not even close.

I'm rooting for him and I firmly believe he is capable of not only making a roster but being a starter, but I also thought that Pargo and Daye were (and still are capable of being) NBA starters too.

Zippyzaggy
05-10-2013, 08:48 PM
EH was a great Zag, and will be one of the many to play in Europe, Nothing wrong with that.

Well there IS one thing. Too bad for E that he didn't go pro after his freshman season. Lucky for us he stayed...but the NBA lottery ship sailed without him.

Wonder if that had anything to do with KO's decision? A smidge maybe?

BTB
05-10-2013, 08:58 PM
Well there IS one thing. Too bad for E that he didn't go pro after his freshman season. Lucky for us he stayed...but the NBA lottery ship sailed without him.

Wonder if that had anything to do with KO's decision? A smidge maybe?

Yup yup... on all points

VinnyZag
05-10-2013, 09:46 PM
Delly can't guard NBA point guards. Harris can't guard NBA small forwards.

And before you crotchety purists say defense doesn't matter in the NBA ... that's true, if you're Carmelo Anthony. If you're the 11th or 12th guy on the bench, it darn sure DOES matter.

Angelo Roncalli
05-11-2013, 07:11 AM
Well there IS one thing. Too bad for E that he didn't go pro after his freshman season. Lucky for us he stayed...but the NBA lottery ship sailed without him.


This is perhaps the biggest myth in GU lore. After a couple of handfuls of games, especially his big game against SMC, some internet draft pundits had Elias going as a lottery pick in the first round. However, this was only the opinion of writers on internet draft sites. Not NBA scouts. Not NBA general managers. The opinions of these internet draft site experts were based on watching a few ESPN and Fox games and box scores. There was NEVER any credible evidence from anybody that counts that Elias was going to be a first round draft pick.

BTB
05-11-2013, 07:20 AM
This is perhaps the biggest myth in GU lore. After a couple of handfuls of games, especially his big game against SMC, some internet draft pundits had Elias going as a lottery pick in the first round. However, this was only the opinion of writers on internet draft sites. Not NBA scouts. Not NBA general managers. The opinions of these internet draft site experts were based on watching a few ESPN and Fox games and box scores. There was NEVER any credible evidence from anybody that counts that Elias was going to be a first round draft pick.

Good point, and the fact that he was older than most freshmen didn't help his case. I'd still be surprised if he wouldn't have been a first rounder his freshman year though. He showed a ton of potential back then, and that's what the draft is all about.

bballbeachbum
05-11-2013, 06:00 PM
From an article on Grantland.com:

The pace of in-game play is too slow. Total possessions are the lowest they've been in years, a product of certain teams milking the shot clock (far too long at 35 seconds) on offense and playing the kind of aggressive (read: constantly fouling) defense that inhibits offensive movement and makes it tougher to find a good shot. As Rex Chapman noted in a tweet on Wednesday, the physicality of the college game far exceeds the NBA, and it's killing everything we love about the game team scoring, transitional flow, displays of individual brilliance.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/61717/the-ncaa-basketball-rules-committee-just-failed-the-sport

thanks for the link, maybe a bit OT from E and Delly, but enjoyed the read. we talk about these things here, the wrestleball instead of basketball stuff going on

anyway, good thread imo wherever E ends up. got to agree with Vinny on guarding NBA SFs, and with Unbiased's general take on E's season.

Zagger
05-13-2013, 02:29 AM
From an article on Grantland.com:

........... As Rex Chapman noted in a tweet on Wednesday, the physicality of the college game far exceeds the NBA, and it's killing everything we love about the game team scoring, transitional flow, displays of individual brilliance.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/61717/the-ncaa-basketball-rules-committee-just-failed-the-sport

I'm a Zags fan 1st. BB 2nd. I'd watch more BB if fouls were called when fouls are made. IMHO Elias was fouled way too often. He may have been predictable in his moves but - if you're fouled it should be called.

gamagin
05-13-2013, 11:39 AM
This is perhaps the biggest myth in GU lore. After a couple of handfuls of games, especially his big game against SMC, some internet draft pundits had Elias going as a lottery pick in the first round. However, this was only the opinion of writers on internet draft sites. Not NBA scouts. Not NBA general managers. The opinions of these internet draft site experts were based on watching a few ESPN and Fox games and box scores. There was NEVER any credible evidence from anybody that counts that Elias was going to be a first round draft pick.

most right here in river city who were watching him as closely as anyone, didn't think he was ready. Hell, he couldn't even dribble.

northsidezagfan
05-13-2013, 11:52 AM
And before you crotchety purists say defense doesn't matter in the NBA ... that's true, if you're Carmelo Anthony. If you're the 11th or 12th guy on the bench, it darn sure DOES matter.

+1 See Adam Morrison.

Zippyzaggy
05-13-2013, 04:22 PM
This is perhaps the biggest myth in GU lore. After a couple of handfuls of games, especially his big game against SMC, some internet draft pundits had Elias going as a lottery pick in the first round. However, this was only the opinion of writers on internet draft sites. Not NBA scouts. Not NBA general managers. The opinions of these internet draft site experts were based on watching a few ESPN and Fox games and box scores. There was NEVER any credible evidence from anybody that counts that Elias was going to be a first round draft pick.

Your "points" might be w/out merit. Do you have evidence that NBA scouts and general managers were not interested in E as a first rounder? And, oft times, these internet draft site experts tend to be on point with projections, and in line with NBA gm/scout's tastes. While I agree that E was over-rated, and that his band wagon was filled more than it should have been (which became clearer with time), where is the credible evidence that he would NOT have been a first rounder, or a lottery pick had he gone out after his first year?

I have conversed with E over the years and he definatley thought he had a very bright future in the NBA. Now he can't get an invite to a camp.

Strike while the iron is hot. It was smokin hot then...not so much now.