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View Full Version : Watercooler Talk - love and then some on KP



77Zag
04-15-2013, 06:55 AM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9172844/meeting-watercooler-discuss-potential-breakout-stars-2013-14-college-basketball



I'll stick with point guards. How many guys could shoot 42 percent from the 3-point line, average 11.9 PPG, shoot 81 percent from the free throw line and essentially go unnoticed? Well, that happened with Kevin Pangos last season.



Gonzaga was so good and deep, and Olynyk was such a star, that it was easy to overlook Pangos. He had a good season that would have stood out on most rosters. Now that Elias Harris has finally exhausted his eligibility after 10 years and Olynyk will probably turn pro, Pangos is all set for a big-time junior season. I think Pangos could be AA material a year from now. Agree?



EB: Shots at Elias Harris, man. That's harsh.



And I agree. The one thing holding Pangos back for me is defense; he's a little weak at the point of attack. Other than that, he can do just about anything on the offensive end, with the possible exception of dunking. He's the real deal.

hooter73
04-15-2013, 08:41 AM
Pangos is going to suffer from the same thing Pargo did. A shooting guard that is playing point guard so instead of being free to score, it is perceived (maybe rightfully so) that he needs to get his assist numbers up so he'll be concentrating on improving that instead of really playing to his strengths.

zag67
04-15-2013, 09:58 AM
Hooter, I think that you might be wrong. With GB and Coleman out there, I think that you will see Kevin floating more at the three point line. Coeman is going to be driving and kicking to the big guys and the guards. Also I think that you will see GB's numbers at the 3 also go up. And when one comes off, then Stockton will be out there to do the assists. So I do not think the Pargo problem will arise.

MDABE80
04-15-2013, 10:12 AM
Everyone knows I really like Kevin. One big aspect of his game is misssing: driving the key. Nearly all of the AA's cando that as they have a very quick first step and can beat their man. KP needs to work on that. I don't know of any AA who primarily lives by 3 pt shooting. KP's a very good passer too. We'll see....this next season could be the one for him.

2wiceright
04-15-2013, 10:17 AM
Pangos is going to suffer from the same thing Pargo did. A shooting guard that is playing point guard so instead of being free to score, it is perceived (maybe rightfully so) that he needs to get his assist numbers up so he'll be concentrating on improving that instead of really playing to his strengths.

I think that was more by design this year, as he needs some serious help in the backcourt scoring. In fact, large portions of games David was brought in very early in the game, essentionally moving Pangos to the #2 guard to keep other teams honest from sagging on our AA big.

I have not doubt he will keep improving his game and whatever has been ailing Bell (even if just a case of confidence) will free him up for more offensive production as our 2 guard, along with the longed for scoring punch from Coleman...A big year from Gary will (IMHO) help Kevin be more of a true point guard (of course all of this is up to what Coach Few wants out of Kevin-as he has no shortage of gym time to work on different areas of his game in the offseason)....

P.S.--- +1 what Abe said!

cggonzaga
04-15-2013, 10:34 AM
Everyone knows I really like Kevin. One big aspect of his game is misssing: driving the key. Nearly all of the AA's cando that as they have a very quick first step and can beat their man. KP needs to work on that. I don't know of any AA who primarily lives by 3 pt shooting. KP's a very good passer too. We'll see....this next season could be the one for him.

While I don't necessarily disagree you do remember Dan Dickau yes? He scored primarily off 3s and pull up jumpers. KP got better driving the lane last year. I'd like to see more pull up jumpers.

NotoriousZ
04-15-2013, 11:08 AM
Everyone knows I really like Kevin. One big aspect of his game is misssing: driving the key. Nearly all of the AA's cando that as they have a very quick first step and can beat their man. KP needs to work on that. I don't know of any AA who primarily lives by 3 pt shooting. KP's a very good passer too. We'll see....this next season could be the one for him.

I also really like Kevin and praise him often here, but for me the one thing he needs to work on is his passing. Stockton is a very good passer, but in comparison Pangos is a step behind. He still has trouble feeding the post, and sometimes he makes some head-scratcher passes and decisions.

Pangos and Bell are going to be the heart and soul of the team next year, and besides the ridiculous amount of talent each of them has, the reason why I love them so much is because they are so mentally tough and focused on the game. I'm definitely looking forward to another excellent season.

CDC84
04-15-2013, 12:04 PM
Pangos continues to have problems with offensive consistency. Particularly with his long range shooting. For every game where he goes 7-10 from three (like he did against Baylor), he goes 2/10 vs. Clemson and Oklahoma. For every blistering two game stretch like had against Pepperdine and Loyola Marymount (8/16), he goes 1-12 at BYU.

Better than his freshman year, but still not as consistent as he needs to be.

DixieZag
04-15-2013, 01:18 PM
Pangos continues to have problems with offensive consistency. Particularly with his long range shooting. For every game where he goes 7-10 from three (like he did against Baylor), he goes 2/10 vs. Clemson and Oklahoma. For every blistering two game stretch like had against Pepperdine and Loyola Marymount (8/16), he goes 1-12 at BYU.

Better than his freshman year, but still not as consistent as he needs to be.

That is a good point - - but he showed significant improvement in consistency compared to his frosh year. . .

And as for shooting at BYU - he should probably take one shot in the first minute - if it doesn't go in? Fake shots and dish from that point on, no attempted field goals. Kiddding, but that place seems to alter his DNA or something.

Malastein
04-15-2013, 01:53 PM
Pangos has a long ways to go before he can become one of Gonzaga's great point guards. He's got solid handles, passes fairly well, and can hit from deep. He needs to work on penetration and getting respect inside the 3 point line. I'd be over half of his shots are from outside, and that's not a good thing if he has a cold night.

ZAGGED OUT
04-15-2013, 02:07 PM
Pangos continues to have problems with offensive consistency. Particularly with his long range shooting. For every game where he goes 7-10 from three (like he did against Baylor), he goes 2/10 vs. Clemson and Oklahoma. For every blistering two game stretch like had against Pepperdine and Loyola Marymount (8/16), he goes 1-12 at BYU.

Better than his freshman year, but still not as consistent as he needs to be.

I think it's more like every three or four games where he shoots great, he has one bad outing. Otherwise, he wouldn't average 43% for a season. His shooting consistency has been under fire, but I think a lot of us are just taking for granted his 7-10 nights and expecting similar production night in, night out.

CDC84
04-15-2013, 03:10 PM
I would rather see 2-5, 3-7, 2-4, and the odd 1-3 with more shots attempts inside the arc. As Mal says, he needs to become more adept at driving the ball. Sometimes getting a few buckets in the lane can get you going from outside the arc before the 1-12 happens.

2wiceright
04-15-2013, 03:45 PM
Kevin will improve in all categories, especially next season. I admittedly am a big fan of his. But he was probably the only player in the backcourt teams really gameplanned for. I can't wait for the combination of his yearly improvements and having help putting up points (or even let someone else carry that load)- so he can focus more on ball distribution, defense and driving to score or dish! (With his youth and unrivaled hard work maybe all of the above!).

My 2 cents.

maynard g krebs
04-15-2013, 04:08 PM
I would rather see 2-5, 3-7, 2-4, and the odd 1-3 with more shots attempts inside the arc. As Mal says, he needs to become more adept at driving the ball. Sometimes getting a few buckets in the lane can get you going from outside the arc before the 1-12 happens.

For accuracy, it should be pointed out that the 7-10 v Baylor and 1-12 v BYU are statistical outliers and not the norm. He shot dbl digit 3's in only those games and the 4-12 game v Wichita. His 3 pt % was in the 30s-50s in 19 games this year. In games where he was below .333, besides BYU, he shot the following from 3: 1/4, 1/6, 0/1, 1/5, 0/3, 1/4, 1/5, 0/2. So other than BYU, in his 8 "cold" games he averaged 3.75 3 pt attempts per, w/ a high of 6 attempts. (30 total attempts)

Other than Baylor, in games where he shot 60+%, he went 3/5, 1/1, 2/2, 2/3, 3/5, 2/3. That's 3.17 attempts per game. (19 total attempts)

He averaged 5.3 attempts per game. If you shoot 5 a game and average 2 makes, it's a given that sometimes you'll go 1-5 and others you'll go 3/5. That's why it's an average. I think this is a case where mythical perception becomes fact, and you can't base anything on one game out of 35. KP actually took very few 3pt shots on his off nights, and that imo is a significant reason the Zags lost only 2 games. He simply didn't shoot the team out of any games this year, as the above numbers demonstrate, and was actually pretty consistent. I didn't go past statistics 101, but I'd bet KP's 3 pt % followed a bell curve pretty well last season.

matty1090
04-15-2013, 05:03 PM
While I don't necessarily disagree you do remember Dan Dickau yes? He scored primarily off 3s and pull up jumpers. KP got better driving the lane last year. I'd like to see more pull up jumpers.

Kevin Pangos is no Dan Dickau, not yet at least. I'd like to see Pangos have deeper range like Dickau, and a quicker release. Dickau could pop a three with a defender in his face (just look at the St. Joes game winner). Pangos could get there but man he has to be more consistent in his threes. I don't think anyone can argue that he had some major slumps in a few games including the tournament. I do like the fact that even with those stretches of misses, he had the confidence to "shoot himself out" of the slump. I don't really see a need with him working on getting to the rim, I thought he was fine in that area this year. Just create your own shots pangos, feel free to use dan Dickau as a reference in that aspect.

2wiceright
04-15-2013, 11:18 PM
For accuracy, it should be pointed out that the 7-10 v Baylor and 1-12 v BYU are statistical outliers and not the norm. He shot dbl digit 3's in only those games and the 4-12 game v Wichita. His 3 pt % was in the 30s-50s in 19 games this year. In games where he was below .333, besides BYU, he shot the following from 3: 1/4, 1/6, 0/1, 1/5, 0/3, 1/4, 1/5, 0/2. So other than BYU, in his 8 "cold" games he averaged 3.75 3 pt attempts per, w/ a high of 6 attempts. (30 total attempts)

Other than Baylor, in games where he shot 60+%, he went 3/5, 1/1, 2/2, 2/3, 3/5, 2/3. That's 3.17 attempts per game. (19 total attempts)

He averaged 5.3 attempts per game. If you shoot 5 a game and average 2 makes, it's a given that sometimes you'll go 1-5 and others you'll go 3/5. That's why it's an average. I think this is a case where mythical perception becomes fact, and you can't base anything on one game out of 35. KP actually took very few 3pt shots on his off nights, and that imo is a significant reason the Zags lost only 2 games. He simply didn't shoot the team out of any games this year, as the above numbers demonstrate, and was actually pretty consistent. I didn't go past statistics 101, but I'd bet KP's 3 pt % followed a bell curve pretty well last season.

Excellent post Maynard. Thanks for the time and effort! It's true that when something perceived is repeated enough it becomes a substitution for fact!

CanadianZagFan
04-16-2013, 03:13 AM
Kevin Pangos is no Dan Dickau, not yet at least. I'd like to see Pangos have deeper range like Dickau, and a quicker release. Dickau could pop a three with a defender in his face (just look at the St. Joes game winner). Pangos could get there but man he has to be more consistent in his threes. I don't think anyone can argue that he had some major slumps in a few games including the tournament. I do like the fact that even with those stretches of misses, he had the confidence to "shoot himself out" of the slump. I don't really see a need with him working on getting to the rim, I thought he was fine in that area this year. Just create your own shots pangos, feel free to use dan Dickau as a reference in that aspect.

Dickau did not suit up for Gonzaga till he was a red-shirt Junior and 22 years old, KP started this year being 19 years old and did not turn 20 till the end of January. I don't think comparing the two is fair at this point. So far KP has had the better college career over the comparable first two seasons. All great players add to their games in the offseason, lets wait and see how this one pans out, then maybe start to make comparisons.

77Zag
04-16-2013, 07:06 AM
Dickau did not suit up for Gonzaga till he was a red-shirt Junior and 22 years old, KP started this year being 19 years old and did not turn 20 till the end of January. I don't think comparing the two is fair at this point. So far KP has had the better college career over the comparable first two seasons. All great players add to their games in the offseason, lets wait and see how this one pans out, then maybe start to make comparisons.

+1

KP is the ultimate gym rat, similar to DD. With his dedication and focus he will improve and the sky is the limit. Keep working KP!!