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demian
03-31-2013, 12:43 AM
I have a concern on this issue. Whoever is in charge of recruiting the JUCO scene for Gonzaga is doing a lousy job the last 7 years or so. When i look at final four team Wichita State i see they have recruited two of their best players from the juco ranks = carl hall and cleanthony earl. i have never seen any juco recruits at gonzaga that look like those two kids who are leading Wichita State to the final four. The Juco recruits i can remember off top of my head that the GU staff has wasted scholarships on are Mammory Diallo, Ira Brown, Marquise Carter, Guy Landry Edi. those gusy are not Carl Hall or Cleanthony earl of wichita state. there are some really really good ball players in the juco ranks, we obviously are interested in recruiting some of them as history shows but why are our juco guys recently so incredibly far off the level of other juco players at schools that are similar to gonzaga as far as program quality. hope that the staff takes the juco recruiting scene a little more seriously. i know, i know Jeremy Eaton, quinton hall and JP batista were juco recruits and they were some of our best ever. I agree but that was also a long time ago. i havent seen not one gonzaga juco recruit recently who even remotely looks like he fits the part as a KEY contributor to an elite team.

Birddog
03-31-2013, 03:52 AM
Here's a little info about WSU's "finds".
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/mar/29/cleanthony-early-wichita-state-sdsu-ncaa/

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21970423/talent-gap-between-ohio-st-wichita-st-has-closed-since-high-school

Throw in a little voodoo,some serendipity and align the stars and you have the formula.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2013, 04:27 AM
Familiar name

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/2019260/amedeo-della-valle

Zags were after him.

willandi
03-31-2013, 06:01 AM
It's much like recruiting HS students in that there's really no way to know how they will perform, especially in the Zags system. Marquise was a top Juco performer, Edi was a top athlete and played internationally at a high level.
Perhaps if you have the formula that can show us which unproven (at least at GU) athletes will become great, you would share it. Otherwise I will presume that the coaching staff is doing the best they can. I'm not asking that these kinds of posts stop, and I know we all wonder why, but include your solutions too, just to help us out. Make it constructive criticism.
The coaches at GU are burdened too because 'doing things right' is more than just words on the blackboard. Team unity matters, as does learning the system and PLAYING WITHIN IT!

B LAKE ZAG
03-31-2013, 06:32 AM
Marquise the first year and Ira brown were ok for us

TheCroatian
03-31-2013, 06:54 AM
JP Batista
Q Hall

demian
03-31-2013, 08:00 AM
It's much like recruiting HS students in that there's really no way to know how they will perform, especially in the Zags system. Marquise was a top Juco performer, Edi was a top athlete and played internationally at a high level.
Perhaps if you have the formula that can show us which unproven (at least at GU) athletes will become great, you would share it. Otherwise I will presume that the coaching staff is doing the best they can. I'm not asking that these kinds of posts stop, and I know we all wonder why, but include your solutions too, just to help us out. Make it constructive criticism.
The coaches at GU are burdened too because 'doing things right' is more than just words on the blackboard. Team unity matters, as does learning the system and PLAYING WITHIN IT!

i am not the recruiting director at GU nor am i charged with recruiting the juco scene, therefore of course at this exact moment i do not "have the formula that can show us which unproven (at least at GU) athletes will become great". Nope i have no solution, i am just merely a fan on a public message board. However If i was a coach at GU this would definetly be on my list of things to address and take a look at and see which areas this could be improved upon.

willandi
03-31-2013, 08:21 AM
i am not the recruiting director at GU nor am i charged with recruiting the juco scene, therefore of course at this exact moment i do not "have the formula that can show us which unproven (at least at GU) athletes will become great". Nope i have no solution, i am just merely a fan on a public message board. However If i was a coach at GU this would definetly be on my list of things to address and take a look at and see which areas this could be improved upon.

As they say "These guys are professionals! Don't try this at home!"

I think the coaches exert a lot of energy in trying to recruit student athletes from many areas, High School, JUCO, International. It is hard to know which players will work out and which won't. Much like the NBA drafts on potential, recruiting is the same way.
It comes across to me, as another fan, that the tenor of your question was implying that somehow the Zag coaches haven't fully grasped the implications of recruiting at all the different levels. I tend to disagree with that.
Wichita State got a couple of good JUCO's, and they got lucky. There was a reason they went JC, whether it was talent, grades, or behavior, there was a reason. I think the coaching staff probably is more aware than any of us of the available talent.

ZagNut08
03-31-2013, 08:39 AM
JC isn't dripping with top 25 talent, but I'll take a few whiffs for each JP

Hoopaholic
03-31-2013, 08:45 AM
It takes two to tango......there could be 50 reasons these two didn't wonder our way from either side of the aisle

demian
03-31-2013, 08:46 AM
As they say "These guys are professionals! Don't try this at home!"

I think the coaches exert a lot of energy in trying to recruit student athletes from many areas, High School, JUCO, International. It is hard to know which players will work out and which won't. Much like the NBA drafts on potential, recruiting is the same way.
It comes across to me, as another fan, that the tenor of your question was implying that somehow the Zag coaches haven't fully grasped the implications of recruiting at all the different levels. I tend to disagree with that.
Wichita State got a couple of good JUCO's, and they got lucky. There was a reason they went JC, whether it was talent, grades, or behavior, there was a reason. I think the coaching staff probably is more aware than any of us of the available talent.

haha "These guys are professionals! Don't try this at home!" that actually brought a good chuckle to me willandi. You are correct and good point haha. I know its tough to recruit and know who is going to reach their full potential in your system. I understand that. I am sure the juco trail is a real crap shoot as far as recuiting goes. I definetly agree with alot of what you said in your last post. As a fan i still have this concern tho and as someone only looking from the outside in, i think it is something that needs to be improved upon but oh well, just my own thought, i am sure we all have thoughts on what our individual teams we are fans of need to improve upon. we disagree on this issue that is fine. but seriously thank you for the good little laugh you brought me and your thoughts on the recruiting issue

gu03alum
03-31-2013, 08:58 AM
Carter was a 2nd team JC all American and scored 35 points in the JC national championship. He played really well at the end of his Junior season and was arguably the MVP for the second half of that season including going for 24 points against St. John's in the NCAA tournament.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2013, 09:00 AM
Carter was a 2nd team JC all American and scored 35 points in the JC national championship. He played really well at the end of his Junior season and was arguably the MVP for the second half of that season including going for 24 points against St. John's in the NCAA tournament.

Carter played ok, but to say it was MVP like is only when you compare him to the guards who were on the roster at that time. The weakest in decades, IMO. Once freshmen Pangos and Bell arrived, it was obvious Carter wasn't all that good

gu03alum
03-31-2013, 09:02 AM
Carter played ok, but to say it was MVP like is only when you compare him the guards who were on the roster at that time. The weakest in decades, IMO. Once Pangos and Bell arrived, it was obvious Carter wasn't all that good

That is kind of the definition of MVP isn't it? He played a position well for a stretch that was basically unmanned.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2013, 09:04 AM
That is kind of the definition of MVP isn't it? He played a position well for a stretch that was basically unmanned.

I concede. Damning with faint praise may be another way to put it. ;)

bartruff1
03-31-2013, 09:11 AM
Carter was MVP of the WCC Tourney. Gratitude and appreciation are in very short supply around here among the entitled.

BobZag
03-31-2013, 09:12 AM
Giacoletti was in charge of Jucos, with Tommy to a lesser degree.

MJ777
03-31-2013, 09:15 AM
Carter played ok, but to say it was MVP like is only when you compare him to the guards who were on the roster at that time. The weakest in decades, IMO. Once freshmen Pangos and Bell arrived, it was obvious Carter wasn't all that good

Wasn't S. Gray a SR on that team?

jazzdelmar
03-31-2013, 09:17 AM
Carter was MVP of the WCC Tourney. Gratitude and appreciation are in very short supply around here among the entitled.

Apparently among the coaches as well. They basically benched him most of last season, having given up and wisely so that his MVP play was a distant memory.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2013, 09:19 AM
Wasn't S. Gray a SR on that team?

Steven and Carter aren't even in the same hemisphere as talents. Lets hope Gary Bell gets to SGs level at some point.

MJ777
03-31-2013, 09:22 AM
Steven and Carter aren't even in the same hemisphere as talents. Lets hope Gary Bell gets to SGs level at some point.

I get that Gray was better but somehow MC played on par or better than SG during a good stretch of that season.

CaliforniaZaggin'
03-31-2013, 09:30 AM
Crazy Legs helped save our season. He stepped up at the most important time. I'll always hold him in pretty high regard for that reason, regardless of anything that happened his senior year.

hondo
03-31-2013, 09:33 AM
Add Bakari Hendrix (WCC MVP) to the list if you guys can remember that far back.
You might also look at the number of JC at WSU that did not pan out as expected.

I had a friend who never invested in mutual funds or stock but told me that it was really very simple and he could make a fortune if he only had some cash to get started.--just but the stocks that are going up.
Why didn't I think of that?

bartruff1
03-31-2013, 09:39 AM
Apparently among the coaches as well. They basically benched him most of last season, having given up and wisely so that his MVP play was a distant memory. I am sure they remember and appreciate what he did.....unlike some.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2013, 09:48 AM
I am sure they remember and appreciate what he did.....unlike some.

As we all recall Kong, Gibbs, Vilarino, Arop, the guy from Maine....Team Dysfunction.

bartruff1
03-31-2013, 09:54 AM
As we all recall Kong, Gibbs, Vilarino, Arop, the guy from Maine....Team Dysfunction.

Why is it so difficult to give credit to Carter when credit is due ?? What he accomplished and contributed is simply a matter of record ?

jazzdelmar
03-31-2013, 09:57 AM
Why is it so difficult to give credit to Carter when credit is due ?? What he accomplished and contributed is simply a matter of record ?



Ok, for half a year Carter was a pretty good player on a very mediocre team. He had a very good post season. Then he disappeared into the night.

bartruff1
03-31-2013, 10:10 AM
Well, that is progress...

combatcorpsmangulaw
03-31-2013, 02:20 PM
Not a bad idea.

sittingon50
03-31-2013, 02:53 PM
you choose to go:

Lorenzo Rollins & John Rillie, both 1st teamers.

And Rillie is pretty much credited with getting the Zags to their FIRST NCAA Tourney.

MDABE80
03-31-2013, 03:05 PM
Wait!!! A bird just landed on my shoulder.....

DO any of you think Few doesn't have plans and options? He does. Good ones. We'll be better than ever next year. Happy Easter to the failthful!
YEE of little faith......get better would ya! :)

hondo
03-31-2013, 03:17 PM
"Wait!!! A bird just landed on my shoulder.....

DO any of you think Few doesn't have plans and options? He does. Good ones. We'll be better than ever next year. Happy Easter to the failthful!
YEE of little faith......get better would ya!"

+1