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View Full Version : Don't feel quite as bad about last week's loss...



CDC84
03-30-2013, 05:47 PM
....knowing that WSU won the west region and is headed to the final 4. The loss still stings, but not quite as badly.

Gregg Marshall can really, really coach. I've known it for years, but this tournament has really shown the nation what he is capable of.

rijman
03-30-2013, 05:48 PM
....knowing that WSU won the west region and is headed to the final 4.

Gregg Marshall can really, really coach. I've known it for years, but this tournament has really shown the nation what he is capable of.

+1

awberke
03-30-2013, 05:49 PM
Or you can insert our team where they are and it feels even worse

BobZag
03-30-2013, 06:08 PM
Marshall was Winthrop's coach when Zags had to battle like crazy to fend them off in 2005. I think Zags only beat Winthrop by 6. Marshall > Alford.

Birddog
03-30-2013, 06:15 PM
FWIW, I think the Shockers are the best team the Zags played all year and I think the Zags would have won if bell hadn't been injured. That's one resilient bunch.

maynard g krebs
03-30-2013, 06:15 PM
A couple years later Winthrop also knocked off Notre Dame, if memory serves, and gave the elite 8 Oregon team a scare.

Unbiased
03-30-2013, 06:19 PM
FWIW, I think the Shockers are the best team the Zags played all year and I think the Zags would have won if bell hadn't been injured. That's one resilient bunch.

The Zags would have won without Bell if they would have been more just alert in the last four minutes.

McZag
03-30-2013, 06:41 PM
"Not quite as bad"?? The world is in Shock! We typically lose to the best and here is another example

GZag
03-30-2013, 06:41 PM
Bell can't make up all of the defensive lapses.

But, I do feel better too!

bartruff1
03-30-2013, 06:45 PM
Marshall was Winthrop's coach when Zags had to battle like crazy to fend them off in 2005. I think Zags only beat Winthrop by 6. Marshall > Alford.

He doesn't have the LA Look...the hair... that was Ben's problem...Alford has the Lavin Jackson look....

This is Hollywood...not Kansas...

MickMick
03-30-2013, 06:48 PM
I feel worse.


This was GU's final four. They had a lead on Wichita State 3/4 of the way through.

spike_jr
03-30-2013, 06:56 PM
It is definitely bitter sweet. I have seen nothing that tells me that WSU is better than we are. With the talent we have (and even without GB) there is no way we should lose that game.

But I must tip my cap to WSU. They did what needed to be done.

siliconzag
03-30-2013, 07:22 PM
They are made for the tournament. They play rugged defense. They rebound like crazy, they are tough on the perimeter, and they don't cave. After two significant injuries that might have spelled their demise, they hung on for dear life against a fierce Ohio State comeback. The comments about Greg Marshall are on target. I've seen this team play multiple times this season. I was not surprised they beat us, and not surprised they beat Ohio State either. They are one good team, and they might end up in the finals, depending on the injury situation with Cleanthony Earlly and Carl Hall. Marshall's coaching skills are showcased by what he does with Freshmen guards.

Does anyone else wonder if perhaps Malcom Armstead might have put the Ducks over the top against Louisville? It has been my contention from Selection Sunday on that Wichita State is one of the toughest teams in the tournament, and reading all the comments about how they are going down in the next game makes me smile. That was some game today.

I find it hard as Creighton fan to root for Wichita State, but there is something appealing about this team. They have a lot of grit, and they don't fold.

Sili

btzag
03-30-2013, 07:27 PM
I agree with Spike this makes it worse because we are the better team but the better team does not always win in CBB and especially in the tourney.

Everyone is rightly going crazy about WSU and how great all their players are and how great their coach is, but remember this is the same team that lost three straight in late Jan/early Feb to Indiana st, N Iowa and the last place Southern Illinois. Additionally they finished off the pre NCAA tourney season losing 3 of 5 and were definitively the second best team in their own mid-major conference!

So for me it is a good team that is playing out of their minds and they should count themselves lucky that they got past GU that night.

TheReasonableZag
03-30-2013, 07:47 PM
This Wichita State team reminds of some of the really good Tom Izzo teams from the last 10 years. Honestly, the Zags should feel zero shame in having lost. That's a really good basketball team.

I don't recall WSU trailing at all in this tournament except to us - am I wrong about that? Amazing run they're on.

23dpg
03-30-2013, 07:51 PM
Feels worse, much worse.

Zag@LMU
03-30-2013, 07:56 PM
Feels worse, much worse.

This. Threads like this make me think that most of the people on this board never played sports or have any competitive drive.

CDC84
03-30-2013, 08:08 PM
What I like about this WSU team are their athletic big guys. Because WSU isn't an offensive machine, Marshall has placed a huge amount of emphasis on rebounding....especially on the offensive end. Like the Butler teams before them, they also play first rate defense, but the fact that they have athletic big guys who love to bang really gives them something different from a matchup perspective.

CDC84
03-30-2013, 08:17 PM
This. Threads like this make me think that most of the people on this board never played sports or have any competitive drive.

Since when does being a fan of a sports team require you to possess an all out competitive personality? I genuinely hope you aren't projecting your hopes, dreams and fantasies on to 20 year old kids (who you don't know) playing in a one and done basketball tournament. If you are, I feel for you. It's a difficult way to live.

I was a highly competitive athlete in my younger years, and losing bothered me very much. It was because I had some sort of control over the outcome.

It's a different deal being a fan. Completely different.

MickMick
03-30-2013, 08:19 PM
What I like about this WSU team are their athletic big guys. Because WSU isn't an offensive machine, Marshall has placed a huge amount of emphasis on rebounding....especially on the offensive end. Like the Butler teams before them, they also play first rate defense, but the fact that they athletic big guys who love to bang really gives them something different from a matchup perspective.

They swallowed up Harris. Completely took him away. They swarmed Pangos, but Kevin did a great job of being strong with the ball. It was very "Delly like". KO missed some critical bunnies in the first half. The missed foul on KO toward the end was a five point swing. I don't even want to talk about Sam being matched up against players like that.

Still, GU had them until WSU went unconscious from three point land down the stretch. The Shockers could have beaten anyone playing like that.

If they are better than GU, they aren't a whole lot better.

caduceus
03-30-2013, 08:37 PM
From March 6: http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showpost.php?p=885415&postcount=7
http://i.imgur.com/QQBu9T3.gif

GorgeZag
03-30-2013, 08:56 PM
Yeah and my ex-girlfriend married the guy she left me for! I feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that.
We lost! We choked! Yeah Gary was injured but we still should have won. This was the year. It's not so much that we lost, it's the manner that it happened (and how it seems to be a recurring theme) and the fact that we had a good shot to be where Wichita is now. The final four.
Listen, I love the team and always will. We have a great coach and program considering the built in limitations we have. That said, we should WANT to win and advance in the tourney. If you're fine with "just enough" and "maybe next year" then why build the new arena? Why the high profile ooc games? Why the private jet? We could still be winning the WCC in the Kennel and playing a weak schedule like St. Mary's, while flying Southwest.
The "oh well" "ho hum" "at least we're not Georgetown" attitude makes me sick. As a fan base decide what we want: either first weekend exits or more than that.

B Wayne
03-30-2013, 09:25 PM
Originally, I thought Wichita State's victory over us was a fluke. But the Shocker's victory over Ohio State made me realize that I was I was placing too much weight on the notoriety of the WSU program, ranking, and seeding. Other teams fans have done the same to tiny Gonzaga in the past.

I, like others on this forum, kept thinking, "if the Zags had done this", or "if this wouldn't have happened", we would have won. Go to another teams board forums after we defeat them. They do the same thing, instead of just saying, the Zags were the better team.

Maybe the Shockers are just a better team than the Zags. Or at least they were the better team in that game. That is all.

MJ777
03-30-2013, 09:54 PM
Yeah and my ex-girlfriend married the guy she left me for! I feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that.
We lost! We choked! Yeah Gary was injured but we still should have won. This was the year. It's not so much that we lost, it's the manner that it happened (and how it seems to be a recurring theme) and the fact that we had a good shot to be where Wichita is now. The final four.
Listen, I love the team and always will. We have a great coach and program considering the built in limitations we have. That said, we should WANT to win and advance in the tourney. If you're fine with "just enough" and "maybe next year" then why build the new arena? Why the high profile ooc games? Why the private jet? We could still be winning the WCC in the Kennel and playing a weak schedule like St. Mary's, while flying Southwest.
The "oh well" "ho hum" "at least we're not Georgetown" attitude makes me sick. As a fan base decide what we want: either first weekend exits or more than that.

Just because someone says WSU beating OSU makes them feel a bit better does not mean they do not want better for the Zags. Are we supposed to walk around angry and kick our dog, yell at our spouses and kids and be bitter until Few attends a John Calipari Recruiting Seminar?

It's called accepting reality and having perspective. It's been a week now so we should all be there soon.

zag69
03-30-2013, 09:57 PM
GorgeZag, Zag@LMU and others, what difference does it make if you and I want the Zags to win the NC? We're not playing or coaching. What difference does it make after all if we're happy with the season as it unfolded? Does that mean we're disloyal and shouldn't have the right to call ourselves fans?

When I was an undergrad, the team was led by center Gary Lechman (6'3") and pg Billy Suter (5'9"), coached by Hank Anderson....great guys, but not an outstanding team in modern terms. Entertaining to watch, comported themselves well. Will you discount them as unworthy of your standards?

I am proud of what they accomplished this year; I'm sad they didn't go farther, but I'm not going to tell myself they (not we, you and I), were the better team at that time. They weren't: they lost. It doesn't matter that in a string of ten games we might have won six or seven times. It doesn't matter at all: we played them one-and-done.

ZagFanInNC
03-30-2013, 10:30 PM
I feel worse.


This was GU's final four. They had a lead on Wichita State 3/4 of the way through.

Yuuuuuup, thanks for already posting my comment.

zag944
03-30-2013, 10:48 PM
Feels slightly better, because no one thinks Wichita State is a middling team in this tournament any more.

That said...

Feels much much worse because now we know all the stars are aligned against us. FACT. We do everything that we were supposed to do all season and grab that one seed and THIS is the 9 we get!? And we get them in a game where they are making everything!? They weren't making nearly as much today, and they were still beating the hell out of Ohio State until that guy got injured in the 2nd half. None of the people that were "right" about us will stop saying what they say until we break through. There was a perception of "soft", "choking" and "underachieving" when we lost to 2-seed Ohio State, 3-seed BYU, 1-seed Syracuse, etc. It doesn't go away no matter how good WSU does and that sucks.

One step forward, two steps back on the feeling meter. Congrats to WSU, but they are making me miserable.

2wiceright
03-30-2013, 11:03 PM
Just because someone says WSU beating OSU makes them feel a bit better does not mean they do not want better for the Zags. Are we supposed to walk around angry and kick our dog, yell at our spouses and kids and be bitter until Few attends a John Calipari Recruiting Seminar?

It's called accepting reality and having perspective. It's been a week now so we should all be there soon.

Great post MJ777! Reality acceptance seems to be a big issue for some. And, as if it mattered what We, the people on this board thought- if the coaches took our critiques and changed the team/recruiting/style of play, etc., I really don't think there would be much left for US fans to cheer for anymore....:doh:

McZag
03-31-2013, 03:40 AM
Just because someone says WSU beating OSU makes them feel a bit better does not mean they do not want better for the Zags. Are we supposed to walk around angry and kick our dog, yell at our spouses and kids and be bitter until Few attends a John Calipari Recruiting Seminar?

It's called accepting reality and having perspective. It's been a week now so we should all be there soon.

More sanity from 77. Drink it in.

Reborn
03-31-2013, 06:38 AM
Wichita St going to the Final 4 makes me feel a whole lot better, and seeing them beat Ohio State last night made me feel great. I loved that game. I was yelling at the the Shockers just like I have done for GU. They held on, barely. I felt that the Zags this year were special, and a veryvery good team. I really thought they would make it to the final 4. And now seeing Wichita St there, I know the Zags could have been there. I believed the Zags could beat Ohio St, and I wanted the Zags to play them so bad. They beat us by a few last year and this year I wanted to beat them by a few.

Watching the game last night helped me understand alot that I did not understand before seeing Ohio St lose to them. The Zags got off to a horrible start against WSU, just like every team that played them. Ohio St, and LaSalle also did. I think Wichita St's defense is just very difficult to understand. It took the Zags time to figure it out. But once they did, they found away to penetrate it and beat it. The Zags were the only team who came back on Wichita State after falling behind by 13 and passed them up and went up on them by 8 with six minutes left in the game. The Zags played great, just as they had all year. They were outstanding in the second half. Olynyk got 26 against them, and Pangos 16. These two guys played better than any two players who played against Wichita St.

As it turned out I think the Gonzaga vs Wichita St game was purhaps the best game of the tournament. The way Wichita St came back on us and beat us was truly remarkable, and now it does not surprise me at all that they are in the final 4. Their victory over us was truly a GREAT accomplishment. The Shockers victory does not take away my sadness because I still know that the Zags could have been where the Shockers are. The Shockers did to us what Ohio State could not do to the Shockers. They came back on us and beat us. And they beat us with INCREDIBLE shooting and incredible will power. They had never shot that way all year, and will not do it again. What that team does is find a way to win, just like Gonzaga did all year long accept 3 times.

The Shockers were better than us last Saturday night. That's a fact. But to conclude they are better than Gonzaga is not true. It's not true because inthe long haul neither Illinois nor Butler were better than the Zags this year. They too beat us. Illinois beat us by crazy three point shooting, kind of the way Wichita State beat us. And Butler beat us by a very wierd out of bounds play. Kind of the way Wichita State beat us. The losses against Illinois and Butler hurt, but neither hurt as much as this last one because it came during the NCAA Tournament. I have learned one thing this year thanks to our loss to Wichita State. The tournament does NOT define a season, nor does it define how good a team is. Yes. Although I am still sad, Wichita's St victory last night does make me feel better. I want to finish with one thing. I do not think the Zags would have beaten Wichita St with Gary Bell. We lost to Illinois and Butler with Gary. Wichita St, like Illinois and Butler, had something that night that Gonzaga didn't have. It's a very very small thing, and in a way it's tough to define. The Zags figured out a way to beat Butler, and they figured out a way to beat Wichita St. The Zags showed great resolve and determination to come back in the second half and take an 8 pt lead. And still it wasn't enough on that one night.

siliconzag
03-31-2013, 07:19 AM
summarized my Easter morning impressions nicely. I do think the comment about Mark Few attending a Calipari recruiting seminar while funny, is a bit off target. I think he might be interested in attending a Greg Marshall defensive strategy seminar, or rebounding seminar though.

What Reborn said, if I understand him, is that being a really good team does not confer being a really good tournament team status. It is necessary but not sufficient. Now that all the experts regard us as a "mid major" and a "paper tiger" yet again, let us be grateful for our year in the limelight, and look forward to sneaking up on teams next year, hopefully with a new emphasis on defense and offensive rebounding. We've seen the model, and it beat us. Now let's become the model. Anyone know if Greg Marshall goes fly fishing?

Sili

Zagger
03-31-2013, 07:46 AM
Well, if Wichita had lost the very next game by a sizable margin I'd feel worse than I do now. But, I don't really feel all that bad. Why should I? The Zags had a great season. Due to how well the Zags have progressed under Few and team I see no reason for the Zags to be finished with getting better. Their now even higher profile will attract higher quality recruits. Plus, the players that will be returning for 13-14 are no slouches - on the contrary! We're looking forward to some amazing years of Zag basketball around here. Go Zags!

TexasZagFan
03-31-2013, 07:49 AM
summarized my Easter morning impressions nicely. I do think the comment about Mark Few attending a Calipari recruiting seminar while funny, is a bit off target. I think he might be interested in attending a Greg Marshall defensive strategy seminar, or rebounding seminar though.

What Reborn said, if I understand him, is that being a really good team does not confer being a really good tournament team status. It is necessary but not sufficient. Now that all the experts regard us as a "mid major" and a "paper tiger" yet again, let us be grateful for our year in the limelight, and look forward to sneaking up on teams next year, hopefully with a new emphasis on defense and offensive rebounding. We've seen the model, and it beat us. Now let's become the model. Anyone know if Greg Marshall goes fly fishing?

Sili

Gonzaga outrebounded Wichita State 36-27, with 20 offensive rebounds. ;)

TheGonzagaFactor
03-31-2013, 08:25 AM
I feel even worse about the loss to Wichita. This just shows any group of scrubs can make the FF but not us. If we ever make it it won't even mean that much because garbage like WSU and VCU got in.

They got all the luck, all the bounces, and all the calls. If they got called for all the obvious fouls they committed they wouldn't have made the Sweet 16. That push on Kelly that led to the 3 pointer in transition...wow. The biggest play of that game was not legitimate and I'm starting to wonder what we have to do to get the free ride from the refs ala VCU, Butler, or Wichita.

rijman
03-31-2013, 08:48 AM
This. Threads like this make me think that most of the people on this board never played sports or have any competitive drive.
Just because we're competitive doesn't mean we have to be sore sport cry babies. You take the loss like a man and you move on. Like Barkley said, when a team hits the shots and beats you all you can do is shake their hand and tell them well done.

As for the OP's question, after GU lost I prefer than WSU not get trounced in their next game and prove to have been a weak team that got lucky in one game against GU. WSU winning the next 2 games and making the FF shows they weren't a fluke, they are a very good team. This doesn't take away the hurt of the GU loss, but I feel a slightly bit better knowing we lost to a very good team.

MJ777
03-31-2013, 09:01 AM
I feel even worse about the loss to Wichita. This just shows any group of scrubs can make the FF but not us. If we ever make it it won't even mean that much because garbage like WSU and VCU got in.

They got all the luck, all the bounces, and all the calls. If they got called for all the obvious fouls they committed they wouldn't have made the Sweet 16. That push on Kelly that led to the 3 pointer in transition...wow. The biggest play of that game was not legitimate and I'm starting to wonder what we have to do to get the free ride from the refs ala VCU, Butler, or Wichita.

I feel your pain. Hopefully the stars will align in 2013-14 for the GU "Scrubs" and they will make the FF. Zags are overdue for some Luck and a run.

siliconzag
03-31-2013, 09:15 AM
GorgeZag, Zag@LMU and others, what difference does it make if you and I want the Zags to win the NC? We're not playing or coaching. What difference does it make after all if we're happy with the season as it unfolded? Does that mean we're disloyal and shouldn't have the right to call ourselves fans?

When I was an undergrad, the team was led by center Gary Lechman (6'3") and pg Billy Suter (5'9"), coached by Hank Anderson....great guys, but not an outstanding team in modern terms. Entertaining to watch, comported themselves well. Will you discount them as unworthy of your standards?

I am proud of what they accomplished this year; I'm sad they didn't go farther, but I'm not going to tell myself they (not we, you and I), were the better team at that time. They weren't: they lost. It doesn't matter that in a string of ten games we might have won six or seven times. It doesn't matter at all: we played them one-and-done.

Played over their heads, and it was a big deal in those days to come close to beating WSU. I remember a game against Whitworth. I think their colors were red and black. They had homely cheerleaders, and ours were pretty hot.

Sili

Reborn
03-31-2013, 10:15 AM
Played over their heads, and it was a big deal in those days to come close to beating WSU. I remember a game against Whitworth. I think their colors were red and black. They had homely cheerleaders, and ours were pretty hot.

Sili

Hey Sili: Been wanting to tell you that you sure called the Wichita State game 100% correctly. I wasn't too happy when you said that, because I know you know your basketball. You were right buddy. I think you said that they were the one team you hated to face that night.

I played for Hank Anderson from 66-69, and they were different times than these are, but it was still good basketball. When I played there were two guys from Yakima playing at WSU and a great guy from richland (Wierman, and Allen from Yakima and Ray Stein from Richland). I went to Marquette which was an A school and we won the state tournament. And Davis won the 3 A back then. We were both undefeated. Ray Stein was my idol when I was growing up.

And yes we rarely flew anywhere. We didn't even fly to Salt Lake. We took the Bus to Montana St one night and then on to Weber State. But for a young kid from Yakima it was all fun. What years were you at GU?

mnzag24
03-31-2013, 11:05 AM
I feel worse.


This was GU's final four. They had a lead on Wichita State 3/4 of the way through.

agreed 100%. in fact, i feel much worse.

maynard g krebs
03-31-2013, 02:53 PM
Does anyone else wonder if perhaps Malcom Armstead might have put the Ducks over the top against Louisville?

Sili

He would have used up his eligibility in 2012 for the Ducks. But it's moot because he left because he didn't want to play Altman's style. And Artis is considerably better anyway when healthy, even if less experienced.

CBS wasn't going to let small market 12 seed Oregon knock off Louisville anyway, because of ratings for today's game. Hence the 8 on 5 nature of the UO/ Louisville game.

RenoZag
03-31-2013, 07:02 PM
nm

HOOTER
03-31-2013, 07:46 PM
I feel worse.


This was GU's final four. They had a lead on Wichita State 3/4 of the way through.

Yep. If they had just found a way to get past Wichita State, they would almost certainly be in the FF instead. This Zag team, and their bracket, was built for a deep run. I just don't get how seeing Wichita State in the FF would make any self respecting Zag fan feel better.

NumberCruncher
03-31-2013, 09:39 PM
I just don't get how seeing Wichita State in the FF would make any self respecting Zag fan feel better.

Well, I'm a self respecting Zag fan. I'm also a self respecting realist, and I know we can't win them all. So I do feel somewhat better, not that I'll ever be happy we lost.

Let's consider a more extreme case. What if we had lost to Campbell or Southern Utah? Wouldn't that feel worse than losing to Indiana or Louisville? Of course it would.

So by Wichita State making the FF, they have proven to be one of the very best teams right now. I always want to win every game. But after the fact, I prefer that the losses be few and only to the best teams.

bartruff1
04-01-2013, 03:53 AM
Well, I'm a self respecting Zag fan. I'm also a self respecting realist, and I know we can't win them all. So I do feel somewhat better, not that I'll ever be happy we lost.

Let's consider a more extreme case. What if we had lost to Campbell or Southern Utah? Wouldn't that feel worse than losing to Indiana or Louisville? Of course it would.

So by Wichita State making the FF, they have proven to be one of the very best teams right now. I always want to win every game. But after the fact, I prefer that the losses be few and only to the best teams.

A rare bit of common sense...

TexasZagFan
04-01-2013, 04:54 AM
This. Threads like this make me think that most of the people on this board never played sports or have any competitive drive.

Nope...not me...

Uh, wait a minute:

Played baseball and basketball through JV level in HS, switched to bowling :eek: after sophomore year, as getting my letter my senior year just didn't appeal to me.

Pretty decent record as a bowler, to include California State Champion (doubles) junior year in HS, El Paso City Men's Singles Champion later on. Anchor man on my teams for 20+ years, averaged 205-208 during my 30's.

Rifle team at Gonzaga, when our indoor .22 range was on the 4th floor of the Admin building. We were humbled early by Eastern Wash, their teams were among the best in the nation, who placed a member or two on the US Olympic team. During our senior year, we actually defeated EWSC, and finished in the top 10 nationally during our final match.

Lack of a "competitive drive" doesn't get you a 4 year ROTC scholarship or through Airborne School. I consider myself "average", especially when roughly a third of my class eventually got their Ranger tab. My class produced a Major General and several LTC's and full bird Colonels...not bad for a class of 22 cadets.

Try being a 50-something white guy in today's job market. :lmao:

Blithely tossing out rejoinders like this puts more dirt on you than it does on us. You sound more like my older children, who #####ed that my wife and I weren't "supporting them enough", i.e. paying their way through college, at the university of their choice.

My response was direct: I told them that, in the first semester of their freshman year, we had already paid more for their college education than her parents paid for her bachelors degree, and my parents paid for my bachelors and masters degree. My wife worked her way through college, footing the bill herself. Talk about exhibiting a competitive drive!

I can think of numerous examples of "competitive drive" displayed by those in our community, though they involve merely getting from one day to the next.

The bar continues to be raised by the young men and women that represent my beloved alma mater. I'm proud of what they accomplished this year, even though the season did not end as I wanted it to.

There's a simple mantra I've learned to live by: it's never enough. Whether it be in your faith, your marriage, your family, your work...it's never enough.

cjm720
04-01-2013, 07:29 AM
Congrats to the other WSU...validates the loss and makes me feel better...we shall overcome, someday.

mobetta
04-01-2013, 08:20 AM
I lived in China for year. While over there, I noticed a peculiar cultural habit: they love to determine what is "correct" behavior or way of thinking. If someone is not correct, they can suffer great shame and penalties. I still can not come to grips with the notion that everything is either right or wrong.

I feel the same way about many people in the college basketball world thinking that one team is better than another team. Is it the regular season or the tournament that determines which team is better? I think neither. I don't think it is an answerable question, anymore than I think the Chinese people should belabor the point of which way of thinking is the correct one, at the minimum, they shouldn't make life or death decisions because of it. We all should strive to improve, however.

Then there is the phrase: "That is why we play the games." The closest thing we have to a good measure is an individual game. Even with all the imperfections of referees, injuries, and so forth, one team does get the W. Still, that measure is limited to that one game.

I like to think that about 10-20 college basketball teams are good enough to make the Final Four each year. (The boundaries are fuzzy here, too.) Some years, Gonzaga falls into that group. Those are exciting years. We were definitely there this year. But, the stars didn't align themselves for us this year. We need to go back home and try again next year. If things go well, we will have another chance next year. We need to try to improve in every way that we can think of and go out show the world that we are Zags. Never give up!

B Wayne
04-01-2013, 11:20 AM
I finally watched the tape of the Wichita State Ohio State game. Wow!

Wichita State is no fluke. No wonder we lost.

If I had to rank the Zag and Shocker starting five, Olynyk would be number one, but the next 2-4 would have to be Armistad, Hall and Early. Thereafter you could go back and forth arguing between Baker and Van Vleet vs. Pangos and Harris. Forget about all the would have and should haves and strategies, those are some talented players on WSU.

Marcus
04-01-2013, 11:38 AM
I would absolutely give credit to Wichita St. They are a really good team. It was a loss that stung for sure but at least it happened to a team that is playing their best. I always think of something my coach told me, you have to have a competitive fire in you that hates to lose but you most definitely need to have the capacity to take the losses, learn from them and move on.

bartruff1
04-01-2013, 12:29 PM
Jim Boeheim on Katz's show..." This is hard...think about how good Gonzaga is when a very good Wichita team had to make 14 threes including 7 in a row to barely beat them."

Of course it makes a difference who you lose to...now I think Gonzaga was better than the Shockers and might have won but at least it took a final four (or better) team to beat them and you can bet I will be pulling for them to win out.

But, I think Cuse will win it all...

cjm720
04-01-2013, 12:43 PM
Thanks for that quote from JB, bart....glad to see some in the know giving us the proper respect rather than pissing all over the team.

ZagNative
04-01-2013, 01:26 PM
It was good to hear Boeheim stand up for the Zags on Katz show today. Here's the interview on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEMSG3KvnVc&feature=youtu.be). The part about the Zags is about half way through (3:00 mark).

JPtheBeasta
04-01-2013, 03:59 PM
Talk about vindication. The Boeheim quote does it moreso than the Wichita St wins. It helps me keep from feeling like a homer. We beat or tied Wichita St in every major statistical category except for those blasted 3-pointers. It was pointed out by Tex how lopsided the rebounding numbers were in our favor- against a team who is known for this, no less. At one point their guard lost the ball at the top of the key, gathered it back, and drained a three, totally out of rhythm. They shot out of their minds that night.

kclubfounder
04-01-2013, 04:12 PM
It was good to hear Boeheim stand up for the Zags on Katz show today. Here's the interview on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEMSG3KvnVc&feature=youtu.be). The part about the Zags is about half way through (3:00 mark).

It is such an obvious point. I get the fact that anti-Zags who are tired of "the little school that could" willfully ignore it. But it bothers me that Zag supporters are blind to it because they feel so "entitled" that they consider it irrelevant.

HOOTER
04-02-2013, 08:15 PM
Let's consider a more extreme case. What if we had lost to Campbell or Southern Utah? Wouldn't that feel worse than losing to Indiana or Louisville? Of course it would.


I guess we're doing hypotheticals now. Interesting coming from a "self respecting realist". In my reality, the Zags lost to Wichita State, a team that the #1 team in the country should have been able to handle with relative ease. In my reality, my team made yet another early exit from the tournament. Not much to feel good about there. Come to think of it, I like your reality better. It's not really "real", but if feels better.

maynard g krebs
04-02-2013, 09:55 PM
In my reality, the Zags lost to Wichita State, a team that the #1 team in the country should have been able to handle with relative ease.

Did you really think that being the #1 team in the polls meant the Zags were the best team in the country? Because in actual reality, it didn't. Top 10, sure. Lots of parity but no elite teams.

Without looking it up, I would bet that every team in the country that was ranked #1 this year has a worse loss than Wichita. And they needed to get freakishly hot to beat GU, while they dominated Pitt and OSU.

With one and dones and the 3 pter, any decent team can beat anybody on a given night. The game was disappointing, sure, but actual reality seems to be a healthier perspective to view the game from than your reality imo. And in actual reality, there were much bigger upsets in this tourney.

MDABE80
04-02-2013, 11:17 PM
Nope...not me...

Uh, wait a minute:

Played baseball and basketball through JV level in HS, switched to bowling :eek: after sophomore year, as getting my letter my senior year just didn't appeal to me.

Pretty decent record as a bowler, to include California State Champion (doubles) junior year in HS, El Paso City Men's Singles Champion later on. Anchor man on my teams for 20+ years, averaged 205-208 during my 30's.

Rifle team at Gonzaga, when our indoor .22 range was on the 4th floor of the Admin building. We were humbled early by Eastern Wash, their teams were among the best in the nation, who placed a member or two on the US Olympic team. During our senior year, we actually defeated EWSC, and finished in the top 10 nationally during our final match.

Lack of a "competitive drive" doesn't get you a 4 year ROTC scholarship or through Airborne School. I consider myself "average", especially when roughly a third of my class eventually got their Ranger tab. My class produced a Major General and several LTC's and full bird Colonels...not bad for a class of 22 cadets.

Try being a 50-something white guy in today's job market. :lmao:

Blithely tossing out rejoinders like this puts more dirt on you than it does on us. You sound more like my older children, who #####ed that my wife and I weren't "supporting them enough", i.e. paying their way through college, at the university of their choice.

My response was direct: I told them that, in the first semester of their freshman year, we had already paid more for their college education than her parents paid for her bachelors degree, and my parents paid for my bachelors and masters degree. My wife worked her way through college, footing the bill herself. Talk about exhibiting a competitive drive!

I can think of numerous examples of "competitive drive" displayed by those in our community, though they involve merely getting from one day to the next.

The bar continues to be raised by the young men and women that represent my beloved alma mater. I'm proud of what they accomplished this year, even though the season did not end as I wanted it to.

There's a simple mantra I've learned to live by: it's never enough. Whether it be in your faith, your marriage, your family, your work...it's never enough.

Amazing post my friend. Not just anyone would write it. Not just anyone could write it.

demian
04-03-2013, 12:19 AM
I finally watched the tape of the Wichita State Ohio State game. Wow!

Wichita State is no fluke. No wonder we lost.

If I had to rank the Zag and Shocker starting five, Olynyk would be number one, but the next 2-4 would have to be Armistad, Hall and Early. Thereafter you could go back and forth arguing between Baker and Van Vleet vs. Pangos and Harris. Forget about all the would have and should haves and strategies, those are some talented players on WSU.

great post. i agree 100% with you. you could maybe say the seventh best player is Takiel Cotton of WSU over Gary Bell Jr (did you see how huge Cotton stepped up in the late stages of that WSU vs Ohio State win)

HOOTER
04-03-2013, 06:51 PM
Did you really think that being the #1 team in the polls meant the Zags were the best team in the country? Because in actual reality, it didn't. Top 10, sure. Lots of parity but no elite teams.

Without looking it up, I would bet that every team in the country that was ranked #1 this year has a worse loss than Wichita. And they needed to get freakishly hot to beat GU, while they dominated Pitt and OSU.

With one and dones and the 3 pter, any decent team can beat anybody on a given night. The game was disappointing, sure, but actual reality seems to be a healthier perspective to view the game from than your reality imo. And in actual reality, there were much bigger upsets in this tourney.

I think being #1 going into the tourney should mean you're the best team in the country at that point, which really is the best time of the season to be the best. It clearly doesn't mean that though, so we agree on that.

Now I guess focusing on other upsets and everything else going on in the tourney is a good distraction from the reality that none of us here have a horse in this race anymore. Using Wichita State's success can be an effective salve to sooth the wounds of another disappointing tourney loss. No doubt this reality is significantly more comforting than mine. I guess we'll agree on that also.

Since we're on the subject of reality, I think it will finally catch up to Wichita State and slap them right up side the head. Time for them to see what a real #1 can do.

shockem
04-04-2013, 06:02 AM
Shocker fan here. I wanted to come in and see how things were going now that the dust has settled. I also wanted to tell you all that before the brackets came out, I thought the Zags and Louisville were the only for sure Final 4 teams - you guys had an incredible season and the the rest of the country that says you were exposed as a #1 seed are full of crap.

The fact that you dominated WSU on the boards goes to show you had the right gameplan and were in position to win that game (unlike Pitt and OSU who I thought had no plan other than to show up and scare us with their names on their jerseys). Also, WSU never shoots 50% from the three. The stars were aligned and this was probably the craziest ending to a game I've ever seen as a WSU fan.

WSU is obviously ecstatic about being the in the Final 4. This was supposed to be a little bit of rebuilding year for us considering all the scoring and leadership we lost from last year's team. Armstead was supposed to be our stop gap point guard for one year while VanVleet gets some experience in his freshman year. This group of players just have thoe intangibles that you don't read on the stat sheets.

Anyway, I wanted to wish you all well next year and let you know that Gonzaga is still the flagship program that all other non-BCS programs are trying to mimic. Hopefully we can keep our coach for many more years and join you all with sustained success.

kclubfounder
04-04-2013, 06:13 AM
Shocker fan here. I wanted to come in and see how things were going now that the dust has settled. I also wanted to tell you all that before the brackets came out, I thought the Zags and Louisville were the only for sure Final 4 teams - you guys had an incredible season and the the rest of the country that says you were exposed as a #1 seed are full of crap.

The fact that you dominated WSU on the boards goes to show you had the right gameplan and were in position to win that game (unlike Pitt and OSU who I thought had no plan other than to show up and scare us with their names on their jerseys). Also, WSU never shoots 50% from the three. The stars were aligned and this was probably the craziest ending to a game I've ever seen as a WSU fan.

WSU is obviously ecstatic about being the in the Final 4. This was supposed to be a little bit of rebuilding year for us considering all the scoring and leadership we lost from last year's team. Armstead was supposed to be our stop gap point guard for one year while VanVleet gets some experience in his freshman year. This group of players just have thoe intangibles that you don't read on the stat sheets.

Anyway, I wanted to wish you all well next year and let you know that Gonzaga is still the flagship program that all other non-BCS programs are trying to mimic. Hopefully we can keep our coach for many more years and join you all with sustained success.

Thanks.

As you may be able to surmise, almost every regular member of this board is pulling hard for you guys this weekend.

Keep on shocking 'em!

cjm720
04-04-2013, 07:14 AM
Shocker fan here. I wanted to come in and see how things were going now that the dust has settled. I also wanted to tell you all that before the brackets came out, I thought the Zags and Louisville were the only for sure Final 4 teams - you guys had an incredible season and the the rest of the country that says you were exposed as a #1 seed are full of crap.

The fact that you dominated WSU on the boards goes to show you had the right gameplan and were in position to win that game (unlike Pitt and OSU who I thought had no plan other than to show up and scare us with their names on their jerseys). Also, WSU never shoots 50% from the three. The stars were aligned and this was probably the craziest ending to a game I've ever seen as a WSU fan.

WSU is obviously ecstatic about being the in the Final 4. This was supposed to be a little bit of rebuilding year for us considering all the scoring and leadership we lost from last year's team. Armstead was supposed to be our stop gap point guard for one year while VanVleet gets some experience in his freshman year. This group of players just have thoe intangibles that you don't read on the stat sheets.

Anyway, I wanted to wish you all well next year and let you know that Gonzaga is still the flagship program that all other non-BCS programs are trying to mimic. Hopefully we can keep our coach for many more years and join you all with sustained success.

Thanks for the note and best of luck...go Shockers!

HOOTER
04-04-2013, 06:20 PM
Good post shockem. I really will be rooting for you guys in the final 4 and hopefully beyond. Not because it will make me feel better about our loss like some here, but because I dig it when the underdog takes down the big program. Probably the only game where I really didn't want that to happen is when y'all took us down, but I'm sure that goes without saying. Anyway, I'll bet you can guess who my money is on, but my heart is with you guys. Keep showing us how it's done.

Zageist
04-05-2013, 07:07 PM
Actually makes me feel worse. GU should have won. They matched up well the rest of the way, and really, are a better team. They just lost. WSUs success makes it sting more. But that's just me....

MDABE80
04-05-2013, 09:46 PM
Thanks for the nice post Shockem.