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exclusivelee
03-29-2013, 07:40 AM
April 16, 2013

This is the countdown thread to decision day.

Kelly Olynyk has not entered his name into the 2013 NBA Draft as of yet, but in the event that he does, he has until April 16 to make his decision to whether he still will remain a Zag for another season.

If a player with remaining eligibility withdraws his name from the 2013 NBA Draft by April 16, he can return to his college.


18 days remain

cbbfanatic
03-29-2013, 07:43 AM
he's already fairly old relative to NBA entrants
has his degree in hand
first team AA - not sure what else he can prove in college
weak, weak draft class - better one seemingly coming next year
polished player, probably not a ton to improve upon in college
guaranteed first rounder


i just dont see any way this kid returns. i dont think any "unfinished business" this kid may or may not have would outweigh all the other factors.

23dpg
03-29-2013, 08:20 AM
he's already fairly old relative to NBA entrants
has his degree in hand
first team AA - not sure what else he can prove in college
weak, weak draft class - better one seemingly coming next year
polished player, probably not a ton to improve upon in college
guaranteed first rounder


i just dont see any way this kid returns. i dont think any "unfinished business" this kid may or may not have would outweigh all the other factors.

+1

He's on the fringe of the lottery it seems also. Of course I hope he comes back but I'd put the odds of that at about 1 in 20. Good luck to him.

CDC84
03-29-2013, 08:24 AM
I would suggest reading this article from draftexpress.com because the April 16 date is misleading:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Testing-the-NBA-Draft-Waters-in-2013-4103/

There are two dates:

April 16: NCAA Early Entry “Withdrawal” Deadline
April 28: NBA Draft Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 pm ET)

The real date for Kelly to make his decision is April 28.

hondo
03-29-2013, 08:26 AM
If you are going to work your arse off (he has) and get beat up by the likes of (insert BYU thug name here) why not get paid for it. How many of us would work another year at our jobs just for the joy of being there?

TexasZagFan
03-29-2013, 08:31 AM
I think it's safe to say Kelly's a lock for the 1st round. I don't know how much of his contract is guaranteed, but you know about the saying "a bird in the hand..."

He's declaring for the draft, but that's only my opinion.

Reborn
03-29-2013, 08:31 AM
I also suppose that most here have not played for a basketball team like Gonzaga U. And I doubt that anyone here had a job waiting for them at the end of their college career where they would be paid 2 or 3 million dollars a year. If Kelly stayed in school he could make up to a million more a year, depending of course where he is drafted.

cbbfanatic
03-29-2013, 08:41 AM
If Kelly stayed in school he could make up to a million more a year, depending of course where he is drafted.

i hear what you're saying, and guys as good as KO are usually the confident-in-their-abilities types, but it is very unlikely that his stock would go any higher than it is now.

first - its an incredibly weak draft. i know we hear this all the time, but this one feels different (and yeah, we probably hear that a lot too - but i believe it in 2013)

second - there seems to be a growing stigma against guys the older they get relative to NBA draft stock. staying longer doesnt always (or even often) result in increased draft hype - unless the kid has huge holes in his game that can be addressed in college

third - kelly doesnt have those holes, in my opinion. what could hold him back is athleticism, and he won't improve that significantly in a year.

if someone is advising him to come back and improve his stock, i would consider that bad advice. the reason to come back would be if he really just wanted to play another year in college, at gonzaga, for personal reasons. from a business standpoint, its as no brainer as it gets

TexasZagFan
03-29-2013, 08:44 AM
I also suppose that most here have not played for a basketball team like Gonzaga U. And I doubt that anyone here had a job waiting for them at the end of their college career where they would be paid 2 or 3 million dollars a year. If Kelly stayed in school he could make up to a million more a year, depending of course where he is drafted.

The job I had "waiting for me" at the end of my college career paid a princely sum of $666 per month.

Travel benefits were great, though not comparable to flying first class as they do in the NBA. My first year out of college, I traveled to such wonderful destinations as:

El Paso, TX
Albany, GA (home of Bob's Candies)
Koblenz, FRG (where they serve beer at the local McDonalds)
Crete

Ya think these exploits will convince Kelly to defer his dreams of the NBA for one more year??? :lmao:

zag944
03-29-2013, 08:49 AM
I dont know what more Kelly could show by hanging around another year.

He has a great skill set and body type. Probably being held back from being amongst the handful of top picks because his athletiscm isnt off the charts. None of that will change.

LongIslandZagFan
03-29-2013, 08:49 AM
Age is the single biggest reason to leave now. Not that I want to happen.

MDABE80
03-29-2013, 08:50 AM
Kelly is different. He might stay. Just a hunch. And yes April 28th is the date. Given that he's got his degree and is First team AA, he might scoot.
I thought his fther said if he was a lotto , he'd go in not, he might rethink things. Always those thoughts change though.
No matter.....he's done a great job. He'll do well wherever he lands.

JAGzag
03-29-2013, 08:52 AM
I dont know what more Kelly could show by hanging around another year.



Another disappointing post season? Sorry, still bitter ...

zag944
03-29-2013, 08:55 AM
I wasnt disappointed with Kelly at all.

exclusivelee
03-29-2013, 08:56 AM
I would suggest reading this article from draftexpress.com because the April 16 date is misleading:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Testing-the-NBA-Draft-Waters-in-2013-4103/

There are two dates:

April 16: NCAA Early Entry “Withdrawal” Deadline
April 28: NBA Draft Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 pm ET)

The real date for Kelly to make his decision is April 28.

April 16 = last day to return to your college


The first day of the spring National Letter of Intent signing period is April 17th this year, meaning that any player that makes himself eligible for the NBA draft before then must remove it by April 16th in order to retain his collegiate eligibility.

LongIslandZagFan
03-29-2013, 08:56 AM
If I were his parent... I'd be talking to agents. Just sayin'

KStyles
03-29-2013, 09:05 AM
Just to give an idea of what the salary ranges are for the different pick ranges, here is the Rookie Wage Scale for 2013-2014 (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale/2014) Teams & draftees can negotiate salaries anywhere from 120% to 80% of the figure listed. Years 1 & 2 are fully guaranteed for a first round pick, years 3 (and 4) are team options. Figures for 2014-2015 are pretty comparable, about 2-4% higher across the board.

http://i.imgur.com/RYsNMGY.png

KStyles
03-29-2013, 09:06 AM
April 16 = last day to return to your college

You only have to return to your college if you "leave" (by declaring for the draft) before that April 16th date.

A player could tell his school he's coming back (by not declaring for the draft) all the way up until April 26th, and then change his mind, fax David Stern his paperwork on April 27th, and would still be eligible for the draft (April 28th deadline) and be immediately ineligible for NCAA competition.

BobZag
03-29-2013, 09:07 AM
Yogi might say, "We'll see what happens when it happens."

GeorgiaZagFan
03-29-2013, 09:11 AM
There have been some very good success stories for players that remained in college for one more year ....AND have had better pro careers because of it. I believe that Horford and Noah from the Florida back-to-back championship teams are MUCH better NBA players because they stayed 1 more year. Duncan and Curry also fall into that category.

I also believe that because player development is a problem at the NBA level, many that leave early just never make it the way they should. Austin Daye and Marvin Williams are 2 that come to mind ...I believe that if they had stayed 2 or 3 more years in college that they would be much better NBA players...something to think about as KO makes his decision .....

zag944
03-29-2013, 09:21 AM
There have been some very good success stories for players that remained in college for one more year ....AND have had better pro careers because of it. I believe that Horford and Noah from the Florida back-to-back championship teams are MUCH better NBA players because they stayed 1 more year. Duncan and Curry also fall into that category.

I also believe that because player development is a problem at the NBA level, many that leave early just never make it the way they should. Austin Daye and Marvin Williams are 2 that come to mind ...I believe that if they had stayed 2 or 3 more years in college that they would be much better NBA players...something to think about as KO makes his decision .....

Do you see significant holes in Kelly's game? What does he need to improve upon to be more ready?

Austin, for example, couldve really used a year on Kelly's "bulk up" routine. Kelly's been in the GU program 4 years and has really grown. I'd be suprised if he could squeeze much more improvement out of his time here. At this point of his career, I think it likely he'll improve much more drastically if he is playing 82 games a season against the best players in the world.

MickMick
03-29-2013, 09:23 AM
It is going to be rough for Karnowski to fill Olynyk's shoes. I expect that Kelley has somewhat spoiled us.

Too bad. If Olynyk's dramatic rise had never happened, we would be singing praises for Karnowski. The bar has been set higher than can be reached in Karnowski's sophomore year and quite possibly for his entire GU tenure. I hope we aren't too hard on him.

sittingon50
03-29-2013, 09:32 AM
Yeah, good luck with that.

CDC84
03-29-2013, 09:56 AM
I still do not understand why NBA teams are so concerned with a prospect's age. If a kid is 23, it's not like the bad NBA team who drafts him is going to sign him to a 10 year deal. He's likely to bail after 3 years and go play for another team. Guys like Kobe Bryant who stay with one team are rare. I think you need to draft highly based on who can give you the biggest bang for the buck right away. Sometimes that might be a 20 year old, but it can also be a 24 year old.

hondo
03-29-2013, 09:58 AM
"I expect that Kelley has somewhat spoiled us."

What do you mean by "somewhat spoiled" We have just completed the most successful baskeketball season in the hstory of GU hoops and there are some saying they are disappointed.
We are spoiled rotten to the core.

cbbfanatic
03-29-2013, 10:03 AM
I still do not understand why NBA teams are so concerned with a prospect's age. If a kid is 23, it's not like the bad NBA team who drafts him is going to sign him to a 10 year deal. He's likely to bail after 3 years and go play for another team. Guys like Kobe Bryant who stay with one team are rare. I think you need to draft highly based on who can give you the biggest bang for the buck right away. Sometimes that might be a 20 year old, but it can also be a 24 year old.

i think its less about long term deals and more along the lines of...

"if this 23 year old kid had the game or the potential, he'd already be in the league"

in today's basketball, it seems a lot easier to identify the absolute best, first round type talents, at a much earlier age than in a sport like football. so... its gotten to the point where if you're good enough to do it eventually, you're good enough to get started at 18-20.

there are certainly exceptions.

SteelZag
03-29-2013, 10:10 AM
Andy Katz had a nice take on Cody Zeller in today's 3-point shot following Indiana's loss to Syracuse.

Indiana could be a Big Ten title contender again in 2014 with Cody Zeller. He has a month to consider (by the time of the NBA deadline) and get worked by agents. But Zeller was exposed against Syracuse as playing too short and not being able to get his shot off in a half-court set. Zeller will have to seriously consider if he's ready. He can get drafted, but he won't be able to contribute, and so much now is about the second contract. He needs to get into the league and be ready to play. He's not.

Personally, I would take Kelly over Zeller, but the game with WSU showed the inability to make shots around the rim.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/tag/_/name/katz-3-point-shot

Marcus
03-29-2013, 10:29 AM
I personally want Kelly to stay but it's just for selfish reasons. I love watching him play.

I don't know about Kelly not gaining anything by staying. By all accounts he is a very driven player who obviously is willing to put the time in to improve. I don't see a lot of areas for improvement skill wise but that's not saying he would not improve on what he has in the toolbox already. I also feel like that his body control and athleticism is still improving. He was doing some things at the end of the season in transition that he was not doing consistently before.

I don't really see his draft status changing too much if he stays for another year. He has a unique skill set for a big body and even though next years draft is deeper he would still be the unique player he is. He would also be ready to contribute right away on an NBA roster and that would be appealing for more than just one team.

I'm not sure what Kelly ranks in terms of his position as a 4/5. What is his draft competition like for the incoming class at his position? I know the NBA likes to draft on potential but I don't see many players out there like Kelly. I don't see that changing from this year to the next.

In the end I don't feel like he will miss out on a golden opportunity to go higher in the draft if he chooses to stay next year. In my opinion he will go between 10-20 pick this year or next.

Next year could be an opportunity to play more of the four too, which would probably be his NBA position. I would love to see A starting line of Kevin, Gary, Coleman, Kelly and Karno.

Whatever he decides I wish him the best. It has been awesome to get to witness his transformation.

(Sorry for this post being disjointed, I'm typing it on a phone and its really hard to organize my thoughts on a small screen that makes it hard to proof read what I'm putting down)

rijman
03-29-2013, 11:25 AM
It is going to be rough for Karnowski to fill Olynyk's shoes. I expect that Kelley has somewhat spoiled us.

Too bad. If Olynyk's dramatic rise had never happened, we would be singing praises for Karnowski. The bar has been set higher than can be reached in a Karnowski's sophomore year and quite possibly for his entire GU tenure. I hope we aren't too hard on him.
I look at this season as a huge positive for PK, he got to practice and learn from one of the best big men in college. PK got to watch KO's work ethic first hand and understand the effort KO put in to get to the top level. He also saw first hand what a big man can accomplish in a season at GU. Whether or not he ever reaches KO's level as a Junior remains to be seen, but I have to think the KO influence will really help PK in the long run.

thespywhozaggedme
03-29-2013, 11:45 AM
To quote the worlds worst baseball announcer, Ken "Hawk" Harrelson, "He gone".

GeorgiaZagFan
03-29-2013, 11:15 PM
Do you see significant holes in Kelly's game? What does he need to improve upon to be more ready?



You could have said the same thing regarding Tim Duncan after his junior year. But I believe he got much better by staying. I believe Kelly's defense against NBA centers will be tested as well as his rebounding. I just think every aspect of his game will get better playing one more year in college ...

Zagsker
03-29-2013, 11:35 PM
"I expect that Kelley has somewhat spoiled us."

What do you mean by "somewhat spoiled" We have just completed the most successful baskeketball season in the hstory of GU hoops and there are some saying they are disappointed.
We are spoiled rotten to the core.

beg to differ... we had the most accomplishments for a GU team in a season..we DID NOT have the most successful basketball season in the history of GU hoops


the end to the season sucked...it is not a spoiled fan saying this, it is a fan of a team that was ranked #1 going into the tournament with a record of 31-2 and lost to a #9 seed in the round of 32

willandi
03-30-2013, 06:56 AM
As far as the NBA drafting on potential, I CAN see them picking a 6'2" Euro PG in hopes that he grows 10", becomes an inside threat with an outside touch. HAH!

jim77
03-30-2013, 10:20 AM
If I was an owner of an NBA team I'd like to see KO play 1 more year. Why? Because I really don't ever see him being a dominate big man or even a regular starter as a big man. What I would use him for is a 3.....I want him for my offense. The kid has the skills and smarts to be a scorer in the league. I think one more year of physical development and probably a 20+ ppg average gets him a top 5 draft pick but, it also will send the message that the kid is on the floor to score....not to bang. Most will disagree with me but KO was/is destined to be the next Nowitzki. I think most folks laughed when I first mentioned it but, my opinion of him has not changed...hes a scorer. He could probably get close to Ammo's scoring avg too. The kid will be sucessful in life no matter what he does...just a really smart guy. He really does have the option to stay unlike some because he can make money with his brain...either way he'll be a winner.

MDABE80
03-30-2013, 10:58 AM
"If I was an owner of an NBA team I'd like to see KO play 1 more year. Why? Because I really don't ever see him being a dominate big man or even a regular starter as a big man. What I would use him for is a 3.....I want him for my offense."<--- sober assessment.


His vertical may have increased but he got blocked too much...SOmetimes by the rim. He's not an elite athlete. So if the goal is to make him a center........I don't think it'll work well. Perhaps some fill in.
If the goal is to make him a 3, that might work. A 4 at times.
His offense was very good in the college game. I have my doubts with the pro's who have all those fantastic athletes. WSU If he's to be be part of an offense in the pros, he'd benefit from another year learning to be more athletic, less gawky (is that a word?)...and set his sight on a 3-4 skill package.

SOme think he has that now...I don't.....at least not well enough to be in the pros. If it's about money though.......will he make more by refining his skills? I don't know. I do know he'd pick up lots of awards in a senior year given he now has 1 full year of "big man" type experience. If it's about guaranteed money.....look to the back half of the 1st round or early 2nd round.
No matter his successes in the WCC and some against BCS teams, he'd do himself a favor by continuing to cultivate himself with foot skill, some rebounding skill and developing more athletic skills. NBA is full of the bouncy big athletes......if he cannot dominate against those type in college....I think he'll be smart to figure out a different niche for the pros. PLUS it might be fun for himto stay.
Once you're gone , you're gone for good. It's up to him and his family. $1 million (which is likely where he'll land) for a few years is a lot better than zero.

Oregonzagnut
03-30-2013, 12:35 PM
You go to college for an education so you can get provide better for yourself and your family. Kelly is not leaving college early for the NBA, he is just leaving after playing only 3 years.

There is nothing more for college to give him except a masters and more wins on his resume. At this point it is what would Kelly give to Gonzaga and the fans.

I think he has a lot of upside in the NBA and I think he will be a lottery pick simply because of his basketball skills, his basketball IQ and his mobility as a 7 footer. IMO he isn't even 70% polished yet, he has more skills to hone and strength and moves to perfect. I think NBA GM's will love his potential.

I think he will go #12-15 in the draft, but the selfish part of me wants him to stay.

hondo
03-30-2013, 01:00 PM
"the end to the season sucked...it is not a spoiled fan saying this"

The last game is always going to suck unless you win it all.
The basketball season runs November throught March. I value the regular season vastly more than the NCAA tournament which is so much about matchups and luck. One loss and you are out is a very poor way to measure
the quality of a season. The Tourney is fun, makes lots of money for some but is not a good measure of the teams in it.

MDABE80
03-30-2013, 01:06 PM
"the end to the season sucked...it is not a spoiled fan saying this"

The last game is always going to suck unless you win it all.
The basketball season runs November throught March. I value the regular season vastly more than the NCAA tournament which is so much about matchups and luck. One loss and you are out is a very poor way to measure
the quality of a season. The Tourney is fun, makes lots of money for some but is not a good measure of the teams in it.

This. From a seasoned veteran.

Reborn
03-30-2013, 02:06 PM
This. From a seasoned veteran.

A seasoned veteran of what?

I wonder if fans think this way at Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Syracuse, Michigan St., Indiana, Georgetown, UCONN, Kansas State, Wichitah St, UCLA, Arizona, Cal, Oregon? I could go on and on. This is the kind of thinking that most likely represents the mentality. Is this what Hondo is a Veteran of?

Lately it's the "old timers" who seem to be dominating the dialogue here on the board. I wonder if the younger generation has been sent away in exile. There seems to be a growing attitue here on the board that the best days at GU were the pre Mark Few days, and the thinking of these old timers here, who come out of the pre Few era are just as happy and content as can be. I wonder if this "old fashioned" thinking is truly how Gonzaga fans feel? I mean the fans who are not on this board.

I remember the night after Gonzaga lost to Wichita St very well. I was at 7 11 and I had my GU gear on. I young man came into the store and he was VERY upset about the loss, angry as heck. Very disappointment. And when I got home I checked out the Board here and there were a lot of upset fans here. And then suddenly there has been a big change on GUboard. There is nothing here but but a very very satisfied attitude, that seems hell bent on telling new fans (since '99) I spoiled we are and how bratty we are, and how paranoid and delusional, because we have a different vision then the "old timers" who are veterans of GU fandom. I also imagine that many of these old vets are the ones who sit in their seats at the game and barely make a sound.

229SintoZag
03-30-2013, 02:29 PM
"the end to the season sucked...it is not a spoiled fan saying this"

The last game is always going to suck unless you win it all.
The basketball season runs November throught March. I value the regular season vastly more than the NCAA tournament which is so much about matchups and luck. One loss and you are out is a very poor way to measure
the quality of a season. The Tourney is fun, makes lots of money for some but is not a good measure of the teams in it.

Here is how I view it. I am not sure I agree or disagree with my esteemed friend Hondo.

I agree that all schools but the champ will have a last game that "sucks."

I postulate that there are shades of grey to this suckitude.

Here is how I would describe the grades from black to white:

Not making the tournament really sucks. Not making the NIT sucks even more.

Once in the tournament, not winning that first game sucks. Fortunately, of the 15 years since the run began in 1999, the Zags have only felt this level of suckitude three times: Wyoming, Indiana, and Davidson.

Winning the first game but losing the second only sucks half as bad as that. Zags have done this many times: losing to Arizona in 03, Nevada in 04, Texas Tech in 05, Syracuse in 10, BYU in 11, Ohio State in 12, and now Wichita State in 13. Each of these losses sucked in their own way, but at least for me, that all only sucked half as much as the Wyoming, Indiana, and Davidson losses.

Winning twice and getting to the second weekend is a huge accomplishment in the tournament. Zags have done it five times: 99, 00,01, 06, and 09. Four of those times, they lost, and that was the most recent four. While each of those losses sucked, they only sucked half as much as losing in the round of 32, and only 1/4 as much as losing in the first round.

Only the 1999 team lost in the Elite 8. That loss sucked only 1/8 as much as losing in the first round, because even though the loss is tough, we have made it further than all but 56 teams in the country and beaten some very good teams doing it.

I hope someday to experience losses that suck even less. Or, who knows, maybe even be the team one year that finishes the season on a note that doesn't suck at all.

It is helpful to keep in mind that there are shades of gray here. Nothing is absolute. Nobody is right and nobody else is wrong. We can recognize that Gonzaga had a great regular season, while also recognizing that relative to that greatness, the performance in the tournament is disappointing--perhaps even more so given the great, unprecedented season that preceded it. Why does it have to be one or the other?

I am happy we had a great season and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I am also very, very disappointed that we did not do better in the tournament given the season we had, and I am frustrated at our inability to get to the Sweet 16 for 6 of the past 7 seasons.

Why can't I hold both sentiments? Why must someone be right and someone else be wrong on these points? I am well aware that my disappointment in the tournament results is relative. I know that I am fortunate to be a fan of one of only four schools to not miss any tournaments in the past 15 years. I know that winning any conference and dominating it like we have is nothing to be taken for granted.

In short, I know how good I have it, and I want to have it even better. I don't think this is a juvenile attitude or an approach that lacks perspective. I think it just is what it is: it is how I feel and it is where we are at Gonzaga right now.

MDABE80
03-30-2013, 06:21 PM
A seasoned veteran of what?

I wonder if fans think this way at Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Syracuse, Michigan St., Indiana, Georgetown, UCONN, Kansas State, Wichitah St, UCLA, Arizona, Cal, Oregon? I could go on and on. This is the kind of thinking that most likely represents the mentality. Is this what Hondo is a Veteran of?

Lately it's the "old timers" who seem to be dominating the dialogue here on the board. I wonder if the younger generation has been sent away in exile. There seems to be a growing attitue here on the board that the best days at GU were the pre Mark Few days, and the thinking of these old timers here, who come out of the pre Few era are just as happy and content as can be. I wonder if this "old fashioned" thinking is truly how Gonzaga fans feel? I mean the fans who are not on this board.

I remember the night after Gonzaga lost to Wichita St very well. I was at 7 11 and I had my GU gear on. I young man came into the store and he was VERY upset about the loss, angry as heck. Very disappointment. And when I got home I checked out the Board here and there were a lot of upset fans here. And then suddenly there has been a big change on GUboard. There is nothing here but but a very very satisfied attitude, that seems hell bent on telling new fans (since '99) I spoiled we are and how bratty we are, and how paranoid and delusional, because we have a different vision then the "old timers" who are veterans of GU fandom. I also imagine that many of these old vets are the ones who sit in their seats at the game and barely make a sound.

You sound angry.........

TexasZagFan
03-30-2013, 07:15 PM
You sound angry.........

Abe, who the heck ever said we were satisfied?

I'll admit my frustrations with the "younger set", who have never known what Zag basketball was like pre-1999. I see it as an attitude of entitlement, and a lack of perspective.

I'm never going to stop wearing my Zag gear when I go out, because for all the basketball's program's success, it's not a be-all, end-all.

Our guys gave everything they had, but came up short. They represented our university with honor and class. They achieved a great deal during the year, and gave us hours of enjoyment. They stuck together as a team, win or lose.

How in the heck is that a failure?

Saxon_zag
03-30-2013, 07:19 PM
A seasoned veteran of what?

I wonder if fans think this way at Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Syracuse, Michigan St., Indiana, Georgetown, UCONN, Kansas State, Wichitah St, UCLA, Arizona, Cal, Oregon? I could go on and on. This is the kind of thinking that most likely represents the mentality. Is this what Hondo is a Veteran of?

Lately it's the "old timers" who seem to be dominating the dialogue here on the board. I wonder if the younger generation has been sent away in exile. There seems to be a growing attitue here on the board that the best days at GU were the pre Mark Few days, and the thinking of these old timers here, who come out of the pre Few era are just as happy and content as can be. I wonder if this "old fashioned" thinking is truly how Gonzaga fans feel? I mean the fans who are not on this board.

I remember the night after Gonzaga lost to Wichita St very well. I was at 7 11 and I had my GU gear on. I young man came into the store and he was VERY upset about the loss, angry as heck. Very disappointment. And when I got home I checked out the Board here and there were a lot of upset fans here. And then suddenly there has been a big change on GUboard. There is nothing here but but a very very satisfied attitude, that seems hell bent on telling new fans (since '99) I spoiled we are and how bratty we are, and how paranoid and delusional, because we have a different vision then the "old timers" who are veterans of GU fandom. I also imagine that many of these old vets are the ones who sit in their seats at the game and barely make a sound.

Well the same "clique" of people dominate the dialogue on this board and complain like hell if someone isn't positive enough for their liking.

Mark Few couldn't possibly do a better job! I think it's a stroke of genius to have David Stockton as our inbounds passer in crunch time. Sign him to a 50 year contract pleaaaaaase!

Sarcasm aside I think Mark Few is a great coach, but he's not immune to critique like some of the "diehard zags" would prefer. If you really want the zags to be viewed as a major basketball power the fan base has to expect to do better than what's been going on as of late.

There's no way this is the most accomplished zags team ever btw. IDC how much of a crapshoot it is or whatever is being thrown around to try and make us feel better about that loss. Whether you like it or not performing come tournament time is what defines a team and a season