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Birddog
03-28-2013, 07:39 AM
As painful as it is to say, the pundits were right. They saw it coming and called it correctly. Gonzaga was over rated. Gonzaga had what looked like a tough OOC schedule, it really was a good schedule, but not all that great in retrospect. They steam roll the WCC and the WCC Tourney, set a record in the process and go 31 and 2 overall. Kudos to that. I guess by attrition they deserved the #1 ranking they received, they won when they had to, it's just that the wins were not that compelling in retrospect.

GU goes 5 and 0 against the Big 12, two of those teams don't make the NCAA, the other three are one and done (OU,OSU,KSt). They play 5 other teams that make the Tourney and go 3 and 2 against them. The 2 losses are against teams that are 2 and through (Butler and Ill) just like GU, the 3 wins against teams that are also all 1 and done (S Dak, Pacific, and Davidson).

Despite protestations to the contrary, I feel like they played their 2 Tournament games pretty tight. The mantle of the ranking and seed did seem to affect them, it was new territory. In a best of 10 series with the Shockers, I think they win 7 but without the services of Bell for most of a half, it ain't gonna happen. Based on reports, he wasn't 100% in the 1st half either.

This was a very, very good team and no doubt had the best team chemistry since maybe 2001. Did they have the most talent? I think not. They probably had the best shot at advancing to the Elite 8 but it was never going to be a cake walk, too much parity in college BB this year, they didn't execute in the stretch and they lost.

IMO,firing Few, sitting Few down for a "do better", jumping conferences (where they gonna go?), changing 3 pt defense are all simplistic answers. Of all the remedies I've heard for this team's shortcomings, the only one that makes any sense is to recruit better players. I wonder why Few doesn't do that, it's such a simple solution.

This was a team(both coaches and players) that worked it's collective arse off, put in the hours, improved their abilities and they accomplished a ton. They set GU records for excellence in conference and overall. The only thing they failed to do was satisfy the emotional needs of some fans who gave their all on message boards, blogs, and social media. I hope you all can forgive them, I did.

kclubfounder
03-28-2013, 07:46 AM
As painful as it is to say, the pundits were right. They saw it coming and called it correctly. Gonzaga was over rated. Gonzaga had what looked like a tough OOC schedule, it really was a good schedule, but not all that great in retrospect. They steam roll the WCC and the WCC Tourney, set a record in the process and go 31 and 2 overall. Kudos to that. I guess by attrition they deserved the #1 ranking they received, they won when they had to, it's just that the wins were not that compelling in retrospect.

GU goes 5 and 0 against the Big 12, two of those teams don't make the NCAA, the other three are one and done (OU,OSU,KSt). They play 5 other teams that make the Tourney and go 3 and 2 against them. The 2 losses are against teams that are 2 and through (Butler and Ill) just like GU, the 3 wins against teams that are also all 1 and done (S Dak, Pacific, and Davidson).

Despite protestations to the contrary, I feel like they played their 2 Tournament games pretty tight. The mantle of the ranking and seed did seem to affect them, it was new territory. In a best of 10 series with the Shockers, I think they win 7 but without the services of Bell for most of a half, it ain't gonna happen. Based on reports, he wasn't 100% in the 1st half either.

This was a very, very good team and no doubt had the best team chemistry since maybe 2001. Did they have the most talent? I think not. They probably had the best shot at advancing to the Elite 8 but it was never going to be a cake walk, too much parity in college BB this year, they didn't execute in the stretch and they lost.

IMO,firing Few, sitting Few down for a "do better", jumping conferences (where they gonna go?), changing 3 pt defense are all simplistic answers. Of all the remedies I've heard for this team's shortcomings, the only one that makes any sense is to recruit better players. I wonder why Few doesn't do that, it's such a simple solution.

This was a team(both coaches and players) that worked it's collective arse off, put in the hours, improved their abilities and they accomplished a ton. They set GU records for excellence in conference and overall. The only thing they failed to do was satisfy the emotional needs of some fans who gave their all on message boards, blogs, and social media. I hope you all can forgive them, I did.

Good post.

Missing Bell SUCKED. There is a really good chance everything would be quite different today if he was healthy. Dramatically different.

TexasZagFan
03-28-2013, 07:48 AM
As painful as it is to say, the pundits were right. They saw it coming and called it correctly. Gonzaga was over rated. Gonzaga had what looked like a tough OOC schedule, it really was a good schedule, but not all that great in retrospect. They steam roll the WCC and the WCC Tourney, set a record in the process and go 31 and 2 overall. Kudos to that. I guess by attrition they deserved the #1 ranking they received, they won when they had to, it's just that the wins were not that compelling in retrospect.

GU goes 5 and 0 against the Big 12, two of those teams don't make the NCAA, the other three are one and done (OU,OSU,KSt). They play 5 other teams that make the Tourney and go 3 and 2 against them. The 2 losses are against teams that are 2 and through (Butler and Ill) just like GU, the 3 wins against teams that are also all 1 and done (S Dak, Pacific, and Davidson).

Despite protestations to the contrary, I feel like they played their 2 Tournament games pretty tight. The mantle of the ranking and seed did seem to affect them, it was new territory. In a best of 10 series with the Shockers, I think they win 7 but without the services of Bell for most of a half, it ain't gonna happen. Based on reports, he wasn't 100% in the 1st half either.

This was a very, very good team and no doubt had the best team chemistry since maybe 2001. Did they have the most talent? I think not. They probably had the best shot at advancing to the Elite 8 but it was never going to be a cake walk, too much parity in college BB this year, they didn't execute in the stretch and they lost.

IMO,firing Few, sitting Few down for a "do better", jumping conferences (where they gonna go?), changing 3 pt defense are all simplistic answers. Of all the remedies I've heard for this team's shortcomings, the only one that makes any sense is to recruit better players. I wonder why Few doesn't do that, it's such a simple solution.

This was a team(both coaches and players) that worked it's collective arse off, put in the hours, improved their abilities and they accomplished a ton. They set GU records for excellence in conference and overall. The only thing they failed to do was satisfy the emotional needs of some fans who gave their all on message boards, blogs, and social media. I hope you all can forgive them, I did.

You've got my vote for "Post of the Day."

I'll see you in Wichita.

demian
03-28-2013, 07:51 AM
As painful as it is to say, the pundits were right. They saw it coming and called it correctly. Gonzaga was over rated. Gonzaga had what looked like a tough OOC schedule, it really was a good schedule, but not all that great in retrospect. They steam roll the WCC and the WCC Tourney, set a record in the process and go 31 and 2 overall. Kudos to that. I guess by attrition they deserved the #1 ranking they received, they won when they had to, it's just that the wins were not that compelling in retrospect.

GU goes 5 and 0 against the Big 12, two of those teams don't make the NCAA, the other three are one and done (OU,OSU,KSt). They play 5 other teams that make the Tourney and go 3 and 2 against them. The 2 losses are against teams that are 2 and through (Butler and Ill) just like GU, the 3 wins against teams that are also all 1 and done (S Dak, Pacific, and Davidson).

Despite protestations to the contrary, I feel like they played their 2 Tournament games pretty tight. The mantle of the ranking and seed did seem to affect them, it was new territory. In a best of 10 series with the Shockers, I think they win 7 but without the services of Bell for most of a half, it ain't gonna happen. Based on reports, he wasn't 100% in the 1st half either.

This was a very, very good team and no doubt had the best team chemistry since maybe 2001. Did they have the most talent? I think not. They probably had the best shot at advancing to the Elite 8 but it was never going to be a cake walk, too much parity in college BB this year, they didn't execute in the stretch and they lost.

IMO,firing Few, sitting Few down for a "do better", jumping conferences (where they gonna go?), changing 3 pt defense are all simplistic answers. Of all the remedies I've heard for this team's shortcomings, the only one that makes any sense is to recruit better players. I wonder why Few doesn't do that, it's such a simple solution.

This was a team(both coaches and players) that worked it's collective arse off, put in the hours, improved their abilities and they accomplished a ton. They set GU records for excellence in conference and overall. The only thing they failed to do was satisfy the emotional needs of some fans who gave their all on message boards, blogs, and social media. I hope you all can forgive them, I did.

great post

ZagLawGrad
03-28-2013, 07:56 AM
Nicely said, Birddog.

Not all poular stuff to say, but pretty much all true.

It was a fun ride this season, but at the end of the day, the Zags just weren't as good as we all thought and hoped.

rennis
03-28-2013, 07:58 AM
Well said Birddog

:cheers:




FWIW, I think Few recruits great players, and GU is probably near their current ceiling for recruits. He does more with less almost all of the time, but it really shows up in the tournaments when you don't have one or two elite perimiter players...you can't win without fantastic guard play. As KCF noted above, Bell's minutes against WSU really hurt the team.

bartruff1
03-28-2013, 08:02 AM
I though they were way overrated...but the way the bracket broke, they had a reasonable chance to advance ....hard to imagine you will ever get a opportunity like that again....I feel sorry for the team and the coaches...not myself...

sonuvazag
03-28-2013, 08:06 AM
Nice articulation of what I have been also thinking. I imagine there's now a feeling of betrayal for many of the fans who went to bat for Gonzaga in the debate about the one seed. There also had been an underlying nervousness that they as fans would be let down, having to eat crow and continue hearing the same refrain from the haters.

The most illogical statements I have heard is that the Zags are a fraud and that they have a ceiling.

The Zags were very gracious about the recognition but it was not their fault that they were overrated.

There is no ceiling on the Zags. Nothing about the ability of the Zags to go deep in future tournaments has been determined.

MickMick
03-28-2013, 08:09 AM
Check out the play by play for the last five minutes of the Wichita State game.

Check out the play by play for the last five minutes of the Kansas/Western Kentucky game.


No team will shoot one hundred percent down the stretch again in this tournament.

I am oblivious to this handwringing. This overrated talk is nauseating to me and reinforcing the viewpoint coming from the East is defeatist talk.

You live in self imposed hoops misery.

cjm720
03-28-2013, 08:13 AM
Great OP. We're the team that could and the team that will break out. And when we do it, we will do it against all odds and the right way. I'm here for the long haul and will enjoy every minute.

Mojo13
03-28-2013, 08:15 AM
Good post.
However, it is always going to be tough for Gonzaga to recruit top tier players.
As awsome as Spokane is, it really is small and remote to most people. It is hard to see it as an insider, but from the outside it is obvious. The majority of this country has no idea where Spokane is. I am in LA and more than a few times when sporting the Zags jersey I have basketball fans ask me where Gonzaga is located. Sure enough, when I say Spokane, I have even gotten a few "Where is that?".

If you are a 5 star recruit on the west coast, where you going to go? UCLA? Arizona? or Gonzaga? Even the kids in Seattle probably think of Spokane as a small, remote outpost. Really tough to compete.

Gonzaga is a small jesuit school which are major recruiting limitations to allot of kids as well.

We should be pretty darn stoked the team is consitantly as good as it is. What a credit to the school, city, students and coaching staff.

hegotit!
03-28-2013, 08:28 AM
The deep deep run in March we all hope for probably will not happen until we all least expect it and were a double digit seed. What do you all think?

rennis
03-28-2013, 08:29 AM
The most illogical statements I have heard is that the Zags are a fraud and that they have a ceiling.

There is no ceiling on the Zags. Nothing about the ability of the Zags to go deep in future tournaments has been determined.


But there IS a ceiling right now. Any objective fan of college hoops realizes there is a difference between Gonzaga's "Gets" and what the celiing is for a fairly large number of other programs out there. Until proven otherwise...

This isn't a slam on GU. At least GU can consistently recruit TO it's ceiling, and get the most and then more out of it. There are many, many teams who wish they could do the same.

Zagcity
03-28-2013, 08:32 AM
Check out the play by play for the lasting five minutes of the Wichita State game.

Check out the play by play for the last five minutes of the Kansas/Western Kentucky game.


No team will shoot one hundred percent down the stretch again in this tournament.

I am oblivious to this handwringing. This overrated talk is nauseating to me and reinforcing the viewpoint coming from the East is defeatist talk.

You live in self imposed hoops misery.

I'm on your side of the ledger, lets start the process of looking to the future. Because next year has possibilities.

bartruff1
03-28-2013, 08:33 AM
I am not aware of any data...but I suspect that the vast majority of D1 athletes go to school within 500 miles of their hometown... yes the 4 and 5 and micky dees go where there is a path to the NBA but they are the exception... it amazing to me the quality of players Gonzaga does get and not suprising they have to go outside the US to find them...

coolhandzag
03-28-2013, 08:58 AM
Remember when Patty Mills when 5 or 7 for three in K2 a handful of years ago? The message board with fill with phrases like "tainted" or "zag killer" for a long time. Look, a career 34% shooter (approximate) got hot....that was all it was. Mills wasn't a "zag killer". He had nice career in euorpe and was a very good player.....exlcusive of that little dry humping act on the Nice and Easy mid court logo. But he was in no way shape or form going to be a career 50% 3pt shooot. No one does.

Watch the WSU game again. Yes. The Zag were not as sharpe as they could have been, but no one team is going to get that hot in this tournament again.

Even with Bell's injury, 10 or 11 dropped bunnies, and the tentative nature of the clubs effort it took a very unlikely 14 or 28 from three to win.

All this from a club that couldn't hit water if it fell out of a boat against Pitt.

Dissapointing. You bet, but it doens't mean the naysayers are right. The Zags were good this year, very good.

Reborn
03-28-2013, 09:06 AM
Geeze! I'm having a bad day. I disagree again. I think the Zags were good enough for the #1 ranking in the polls and the #1 seed. I feel they deserved both. You see, I think the Zags had a great season. The alltime best for sure. They were playing their best basketball at the end of the season. If you agree with this person posting this thread, then you must agree that the reason we lost the game against Wichita St is because we are playing in the WCC, and that our OOC schedule was not really all that tough, or you believe the Zagss just weren't good enough to beat Wichita St.

I think the Zags were a very good team, and really in most ways a great team. I agree with Mark Few that you can not take away what the team achieved in the regular season just because of the 2nd round loss. If you look how the Zags played in their two NCAA tournament games, and compare them to the last 12 games of the regular season, for the most part I would say that the Zags didn't play to their potential in the NCAA. St Mary's is as good of a 3 pt shooting team as Wichita St is, and even better, and the Zags shut them down both in Moraga and in Las Vegas.

I will always really like this team, and I will always remember the ride to the top of the polls, and receiving the number one seed. It was a great time, and a great season. The one major problem for Mark Few and the Zags is that they cannot seem to win in the post season tournament. And this year in particular they existed from the tournament much sooner than most thought they would. Two things happened in the tournament that also were the causes for our two losses during the regular season. They Zags lost to a team because they were extremely hot from behind the arc (Illinois) and we lost to a team for a bone-headed mistake on an inbounds pass (Butler). Both of these happened against Wichita St.

And finally, one thing has to be taken into account, and that is that Gary Bell got injured. That is an important factor in the loss too. There is a part of me that will always feel that this was the best Gonzaga team ever because of what they accomplished during the regular season, and there is a part of me that believes the Zags are not the best team ever because they were unable to get it done in March. I guess it would be easier to handle the loss if we just conclude that the Zags weren't as good as so many thought they were. But, as hard as the truth is to handle at times, the Zags were good enough to beat Wichita St, and once again blew it in March. There seems to be some kind of a flaw in the Zags make up that prevents them from winning on the biggest stage they play on in the year.

spike_jr
03-28-2013, 09:23 AM
I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. I think saying that we were overrated is selling both the kids and the coaches short. Do you really think Wichita St is the better team? Has better players? Has more potential than we did? Who in this tournament had a team superior to our overall talent? In my opinion, nobody. We had the talent to compete and win against anybody and especially on a neutral court.

You say the solution is simple - we need to recruit better players. Do you think the coaches intentionally skip over more elite talent? That they would not like a few kids that are 5 star and fit the team's and university's character? We have great kids that are damn good basketball players. this is the foundation for winning teams at GU. I believe our problems are systemic/philosophic - 3 pt defense, always being the aggressor, etc. We need to control the things that we can control. The best way to improve recruiting is to win and to win more than just the WCC.

I will agree that we played tight and arguably our worst two games of the season in the tournament. I am not sure if that was the pressure that came from being the #1 seed, if it was rust from a long lay off, if it was lack of preparation, etc. We have a recipe for success, but it is silly to think that we can't do better.

stevet75
03-28-2013, 09:29 AM
Geeze! I'm having a bad day. I disagree again. I think the Zags were good enough for the #1 ranking in the polls and the #1 seed. I feel they deserved both. You see, I think the Zags had a great season. The alltime best for sure. They were playing their best basketball at the end of the season. If you agree with this person posting this thread, then you must agree that the reason we lost the game against Wichita St is because we are playing in the WCC, and that our OOC schedule was not really all that tough, or you believe the Zagss just weren't good enough to beat Wichita St.

I think the Zags were a very good team, and really in most ways a great team. I agree with Mark Few that you can not take away what the team achieved in the regular season just because of the 2nd round loss. If you look how the Zags played in their two NCAA tournament games, and compare them to the last 12 games of the regular season, for the most part I would say that the Zags didn't play to their potential in the NCAA. St Mary's is as good of a 3 pt shooting team as Wichita St is, and even better, and the Zags shut them down both in Moraga and in Las Vegas.

I will always really like this team, and I will always remember the ride to the top of the polls, and receiving the number one seed. It was a great time, and a great season. The one major problem for Mark Few and the Zags is that they cannot seem to win in the post season tournament. And this year in particular they existed from the tournament much sooner than most thought they would. Two things happened in the tournament that also were the causes for our two losses during the regular season. They Zags lost to a team because they were extremely hot from behind the arc (Illinois) and we lost to a team for a bone-headed mistake on an inbounds pass (Butler). Both of these happened against Wichita St.

And finally, one thing has to be taken into account, and that is that Gary Bell got injured. That is an important factor in the loss too. There is a part of me that will always feel that this was the best Gonzaga team ever because of what they accomplished during the regular season, and there is a part of me that believes the Zags are not the best team ever because they were unable to get it done in March. I guess it would be easier to handle the loss if we just conclude that the Zags weren't as good as so many thought they were. But, as hard as the truth is to handle at times, the Zags were good enough to beat Wichita St, and once again blew it in March. There seems to be some kind of a flaw in the Zags make up that prevents them from winning on the biggest stage they play on in the year.

I pretty much agree with your post Reborn, but I do feel that a number 1 team should be able to beat a Witchita State without the services of one of their players. Maybe it boils down to your last sentence... I don't know. Maybe it was just the way the ball bounced.
Regardless, it was a great season with only three bumps in the road... too bad that one of them was the last game.

Zageist
03-28-2013, 09:36 AM
I don't know if they were over rated or not, they were successful all year, winning tight games, under apparent pressure. To me, the team that took the floor in SLC just didn't look like the same team from the rest of the year. It's a single elimination tourney and anyone can lose at anytime. I think they were deserving of the no 1 seeding, they just underperformed.

BobZag
03-28-2013, 09:38 AM
Failed, we have.
Into exile, we must go.

sonuvazag
03-28-2013, 09:42 AM
The Big 12 was much weaker than most people realized.

MDABE80
03-28-2013, 09:58 AM
Excellent Birdmeister. Nice summary. But...they did the best they could. We got no 5 star kids......we are not Kentucky. We do what we do with what we have. The path to a FF is a tough one.
We didn't play terribly in either game in the tournament. We didn't shoot well. WSU was hot. REALLY hot.

WeGotMorrison ( ya got no logic in ya son) is on this board promoting conflict (again). Part of the problem. I'm ok with our performance.......we obviously could have done better. The Elite 8 team won by being tough but if you go look at those games, Lady Luck broke our way several times back then. Last minute tip in and all that. I wish we'd have had better luck this year, it didn't happen.

Did the kids play well enough to win? Sure. Nothing was disgraceful. Hurts a bit more when the media targets us and calls BS on everything we've done. But...imagine how the players feel!! Or the Coaches!!.
Time to move on. Enough of this 2nd and 3rd guessing. Thanks to Birdmeister for taking the time to post a well thought out contribution. Let's move on.........something tells me Wichita won't be shooting the lights out again.....and they'll take their place on the bench next to us. Just an incredible performance. ie like they had 4 Jimmers. Unlikely to be repeated.

Best wishes to everyone.

GeorgiaZagFan
03-28-2013, 09:58 AM
[/B]

I pretty much agree with your post Reborn, but I do feel that a number 1 team should be able to beat a Witchita State without the services of one of their players. Maybe it boils down to your last sentence... I don't know. Maybe it was just the way the ball bounced.
Regardless, it was a great season with only three bumps in the road... too bad that one of them was the last game.

I agree that a #1 teams should overcome an injury to win... but even Indiana lost to Temple this year due to an injury to one of their starters, Jordan Hulls. Oh the scoreboard may say different but down the stretch Temple was leading that game when Zeller drove the lane...took 5 steps...and then was GIVEN 2 FT's to tie the game. Next possession for Temple results in a missed shot and as Indiana tries to run with the rebound a Temple player "jumps" the route and cleanly steals the ball for an easy 2 points...ONLY to be called for a phantom foul!!!! So when it should have been Temple leading by 4-6 points...Indiana had a 1-point lead.

Similar sequence for the Zags...up 4 points at 61-57, Kelly goes for an easy layup and gets body slammed ...no call, rebound is thrown up court to a WSU player in the corner who leaves his feat, fakes a shot, comes down does a little dance..5 steps later he kicks it out for a 3 pointer and a 1 point Zaga lead. Instead of leading by 6 points and the ball...the lead is down to 1 from 2 EASY calls that were missed.

mnzag24
03-28-2013, 10:18 AM
The team that played during the regular season and conference tournaments was not overrated. The version that showed up to the dance (for whatever of the many reasons mentioned above and going through my head) was incredibly overrated.

Nevada Don
03-28-2013, 11:09 AM
[QUOTE=coolhandzag;902241]Remember when Patty Mills when 5 or 7 for three in K2 a handful of years ago? The message board with fill with phrases like "tainted" or "zag killer" for a long time. Look, a career 34% shooter (approximate) got hot....that was all it was. Mills wasn't a "zag killer". He had nice career in euorpe and was a very good player.....exlcusive of that little dry humping act on the Nice and Easy mid court logo. But he was in no way shape or form going to be a career 50% 3pt shooot. No one does.

Just for the record, Mills never played (I don't think) in Europe. He spent limited time in Australia and China but obviously did play in the NBA for Portland and currently for the Spurs, although, I saw that he was put on the "inactive list" yesterday, whatever that means.

zagfan1
03-28-2013, 11:28 AM
I disagree with the fact we were overrated. The coaching style changed in the tournament and did not put our players in the best position to be the most successful . We are a way better team than Wichita state and our roster has more talent. Our defense used killed us and it also happened to be the perfect storm with Wichita State making all those threes.

zagfan1
03-28-2013, 11:36 AM
I think I will add that Tommy Lloyd came up with the game plan against Wichita State.

Reborn
03-28-2013, 11:49 AM
The game plan was okay. Based on what I knew (after alot of research) I would have sagged off the outside shooters as well, and keep them scoring on the inside. However, after they made 7 three's the first half I would certainly have changed the game plan at halftime. That's what a halftime is for. I do believe they guarded the 3 better for the first 15 minutes of the second half. Then, for some unforseen reason they began to sag off more, or just lost their man in transition, and WSU began to hit the 3's again.

Oregonzagnut
03-28-2013, 11:59 AM
I don't believe in a ceiling for anyone or anything. Only hindsight defines a ceiling as the highest or furthest point achieved. Then point to that and say that is the ceiling.

People said we had a ceiling even here. you can go to many threads where even fans here said there was no way Gonzaga could be ranked #1 or get a 1 seed. That is was impossible. So now everyone must raise this ceiling again.

Limits on growth only come to pass when we die. Till then potential is unlimited. That I have faith in.

coolhandzag
03-28-2013, 12:05 PM
[QUOTE=coolhandzag;902241]Remember when Patty Mills when 5 or 7 for three in K2 a handful of years ago? The message board with fill with phrases like "tainted" or "zag killer" for a long time. Look, a career 34% shooter (approximate) got hot....that was all it was. Mills wasn't a "zag killer". He had nice career in euorpe and was a very good player.....exlcusive of that little dry humping act on the Nice and Easy mid court logo. But he was in no way shape or form going to be a career 50% 3pt shooot. No one does.

Just for the record, Mills never played (I don't think) in Europe. He spent limited time in Australia and China but obviously did play in the NBA for Portland and currently for the Spurs, although, I saw that he was put on the "inactive list" yesterday, whatever that means.

Let the record be further amended to show that the mid court sticker and jersey actually during a shameful dry hump actaully read "Lite and Easy" and that his carrer 3% percentage is somewhere south of 50%.

The point being the Shox got really hot from 3 just as the microcosm of Mills. That is all.

MDABE80
03-28-2013, 12:14 PM
I don't fault our kids for a 1 ranking or seed. We had the numbers to justify both. What the media didn't like was our method of winning and the mechaics we displayed. As far as teams go, someof our methods in winning weren't quite "2012 Kentucky" style. We weren't dominant.
Couple that to the BCS bias we certainly saw, we got a thumbs down. BUT the numbers were there and better than anyone in the country when it comes to our W-L record. It's important but not critical that we go hard next year.redemption(if we need it) is just around the corner. We're only as good as our last win in the media's tainted vision.
So we come out next year and win some games. Most certainly KO staying will help. BUT if he goes, we'll find someone else. We will have to. Unril then, put your earmuffs on and quit listening to the aholes. Ask yourselves the bottom line question: How many teams who go in as ranked no 1 AND get a no 1 seeds actually win it all in the NCAA tourney...........count that on one hand. It rarely happens.

We just got snarky media. Somebody needed to pose that one question.

DADoZAG
03-28-2013, 12:23 PM
Thank you to Mick and others for dispelling the OP.

While I am a fan by Malís definition, this yearís version of the ZAGS played several games as good as their ranking, as good as their seed.

Unfortunately Saturday wasnít one of those games. The reasons for the loss are many, as staff surely knows.

For me, Iíll stick with Jon Bon, ďyou canít win until youíre not afraid to lose.Ē

Go ZAGS!

ZagsGoZags
03-28-2013, 12:27 PM
What I saw in the last two games was

less energy on defense
less intensity than the other guys

cggonzaga
03-28-2013, 01:04 PM
This overrated talk is nauseating to me and reinforcing the viewpoint coming from the East is defeatist talk.

For once I agree with you Mick. Overrated my arse! The fact that we lost to a good WSU team by 6 that probably played their best game of the year and made the most 3 pointers they made all year is a pretty good indicator of how good we were. We played average at best and were uptight all game. That's a reflection of the coach imo. I know I'm repeating myself over and over again but until Few loosens the reigns a little and just lets players play, we're always going to be stiff in March. I'm not blaming the loss on him but he's certainly not without blame either.

mobetta
03-28-2013, 01:31 PM
Human beings are among the most unpredictable things there are. When you try to make predictions about a basketball game involving the behavior of 24 players, 10 coaches, 3 referees and all of the fans, technology, and other external factors, it becomes a nightmare. When you add to that 350 Division I teams and look at this tournament, why does anyone wonder that no one can predict a perfect bracket? Predicting who will win any of the games is very difficult. There will be 16 seeds beating 1 seeds, soon. When one considers all of the factors, many with components of luck, it is a very complex problem space.

One of the largest factors is quality of players. Gonzaga, being a small Jesuit university in Spokane, will always have difficulty attracting the highly regarded players, those with high levels of athleticism and who have been praised and sought after for years. Most of them have NBA dreams and the desire for bright lights and $$ in their eyes. If all other things were equal, the teams with the most of these talents would win the most often, e.g., Kentucky.

Fortunately, all other things are not equal. There are many more factors which affect the results. Gonzaga's program has many of them. I don't need to list them all for the readers of this board. Most you know them much more thoroughly than I do. Think of the threads about what it takes to be a Zag. Many of the other factors have to do with injuries, seeding, refereeing, the bounce of the ball, etc. etc.

The Gonzaga program is on a trajectory, upwards, still increasing. It is not as steep as some of you would like. It has setbacks and bumps a long the way. No other program in college basketball history has shown the steady growth that Gonzaga has. There have been impressive spikes by other teams, such as Butler recently. The UCLAs, Dukes, Kentuckys, North Carolinas, have advantages such as size, and have started from a higher spot on the curve.

We have to continue working hard to improve everyday and every year. When we do reach the pinnacle, our joy will be greater than all of the other programs, the ones that do it by spending more money, going after the spectacular instead of the high character, the one and dones instead of the 4 year true student athletes, the individualists instead of the team players, and so forth. We will have more to be proud of because we did it the right way.

We really are on the right trajectory. Besides, if we won the whole thing this year, what would we have to strive for in future years? Enjoy the ride!

rijman
03-28-2013, 02:08 PM
As painful as it is to say, the pundits were right. They saw it coming and called it correctly. Gonzaga was over rated.
Which pundits had it right? they were all over the map from losing their first game to winning it all. Gottleib and Lunardi had the Zags going to the FF, another had them winning it all. I object to your phrasing here because there was no consensus the Zags would falter in their 2nd NCAA game. Regardless of the Zags outcome some pundit somewhere was going to get it right.

maynard g krebs
03-28-2013, 02:58 PM
We should have seen a mediocre shooting team, that somebody said shot 26% from 3 the last 6 games, going on a one in a thousand shooting streak late in the game?

That would require more prescience that most of us possess imo.

I could agree that the offensive struggles in this game were foreseeable, though. In spite of the great offensive numbers, this team lacked sufficient perimeter fire power and seemed inhibited from shooting like, say, the 99-01 teams did. Being predictable and forcing it inside doesn't work against good teams; you need balance and multiple perimeter threats too.

If by "this" you mean the offensive struggles and tight play in the tourney, I agree. And Ohio State would have been an almost certain loss had the Zags gotten that far. But 4 times out of 5 GU wins that Wichita game if both teams shoot normally and Bell is healthy.

MickMick
03-28-2013, 03:36 PM
Time for some truth here. Some real truth.

The Zags were not a great team relative to great teams we have seen in recent NCAA history, but they were still a very good team. They were worthy of their seed and rank relative to the strength of the field.

The NCAA field was weak this year and GU could have beaten any team in the tournament, except for possibly Louisville, if they had brought their "A" game.

Elias Harris has been a great Zag in WCC play. One of the best ever. His general play in the tournament (except against Syracuse with Bouldin feeding him) is not good. Not good at all. I was scolded for bringing this up ealrier in the season.

Gary Bell has been stout on defense but his offense has dissappeared and his handles have come in to serious question. He drives into a crowd and often gets into trouble. Bell's absence probably didn't have much impact on the game.

The team was tired down the stretch, and the coach didn't have enough faith in the bench to give the main guys a breather. They were gasping for air more than running the opponent off of the arc.

Wichita State played the best offensive game they have ever played or will ever play. That particular night, was a final four capable effort.

Zag79
03-28-2013, 04:04 PM
Great post, pretty much sums it up. As for the rest of the conversations, the inability to defend the three is our main issue in losses. It's statistically proven and an adjustment needs to be made if we want to advance on a regular basis, the players and coaches are both more than capable.

bballbeachbum
03-28-2013, 07:07 PM
overrated? I don't think so altho I understand the perspective. wish GBj had played the entire game and don't buy the argument that a #1 team should be able to absorb that, etc. It affected negatively, unfortunately. would GU have won that game anyway? we'll never know. it was a bummer though, didn't help

bballbeachbum
03-28-2013, 07:18 PM
Elias Harris has been a great Zag in WCC play. One of the best ever. His general play in the tournament (except against Syracuse with Bouldin feeding him) is not good. Not good at all. I was scolded for bringing this up ealrier in the season.

E was not as yuck as all this talk here and he was good in the OCC as well.

WSU gameplanned to stop him and the balance to make them pay wasn't there--truth. he wasn't great in the game but he only took 8 shots because the D was stacked to stop him. would have been nice to see some more open looks go down--truth

you want some more truth? 14-28 from 3 vs. 8-23 from 3. Now how was E responsible for that--the reason the game went to the Shockers--when the balance of the team has been its strength all year?

jim77
03-29-2013, 01:25 AM
What I saw in the last two games was

less energy on defense
less intensity than the other guys

Wonder if the altitude affected their game? Wichita state is heading to the elite 8...maybe we didn't lose to a stiff as some think.

VinnyZag
03-29-2013, 07:21 AM
This is how I've been summing up the game to friends who ask why GU lost:

The Zags missed easy shots. Wichita State hit tough ones.

bballbeachbum
03-29-2013, 07:24 AM
This is how I've been summing up the game to friends who ask why GU lost:

The Zags missed easy shots. Wichita State hit tough ones.

that's pretty good

IdahoTJR
03-29-2013, 09:44 AM
Mostly a lurker here, but huge GU fan.

The loss was horrible. Have not watched a game since, but will probably break down and watch FSGU tonight.

One thing I did see was at the end was Harris, Olynik, and Pangos were out of gas. There was a shot of Pangos with a couple of minutes left during a stop in play and he was breathing heavy not like I ever saw before. These three played 35min (Harris) 38 Min (Olynk) and 39 Min(Pangos) Hart even played 27 minutes. Olynik and Pango played 36 and 38 minutes in the Southern game. They just didn't have the legs during the last 5 minutes of the game