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ZagLawGrad
03-25-2013, 11:01 AM
Sometimes blind loyalty influences opinions too much.

In my view, the ESPN commentary below from today summarizes why the Zags need to seriously consider a conference move.

Huge blown opportunity. And the failure to advance in the Dance is happening too often to ignore the reality of playing in the WCC, IMO.

Feel free to move, Mods, if this is repetitive.




Parting shots from opening weekend

Salt Lake City

1. Think there are a lot of people saying "I told you so" about Gonzaga now? The controversially top-seeded Zags didn't just lose another tournament game when they fell to ninth-seeded Wichita State on Saturday or even just fail to make the Sweet 16 for the first time since 2009. With the easiest path of the 1-seeds and Nos. 3, 4, 5 and 8 in the wild West already having fallen, they lost a legitimate chance at the Final Four, something that doesn't come around that often for WCC schools, even those as accomplished as the Zags. The top-ranked team in the nation was the most polarizing team in this field; you either believed in the don't-call-me-Cinderella-anymore mid-major, or you didn't. In the end, the Zags proved the doubters right.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2013/story/_/id/9092120/2013-ncaa-tournament-lasting-impressions-opening-weekend-ncaa-tournament

Vanzagger
03-25-2013, 11:08 AM
What's more lame, blaming refs or WCC?

gamagin
03-25-2013, 11:11 AM
is we didn't bring focus and intensity. Impose our game on whomever we played

Everything else is just blather. and speculation. It's all okay with me. It's just not something I'd figure a law grad would try an offer as evidence of anything. and I like you.

ZagLawGrad
03-25-2013, 11:14 AM
is we didn't bring focus and intensity. Impose our game on whomever we played

Everything else is just blather. and speculation. It's all okay with me. It's just not something I'd figure a law grad would try an offer as evidence of anything. and I like you.

Like you too, Gam. Sure there isn't a hint of blind loyalty there, though? ;)

Hearsay for sure. But there is more than an element of truth in the ESPN assessment.

Oregonzagnut
03-25-2013, 11:15 AM
I disagree. Blaming the WCC for us coming out flat and sloppy is just an excuse.

We played tougher in the WCC than we did against Southern and WSU. So how can we blame the 10th best conference for Bell getting hurt, all our missed bunnies and WSU shooting 50% from three?

TacomaZAG
03-25-2013, 11:30 AM
Where are the ZAGS going to go???? Every conference east of the Rockies is geographically untenable, the PAC-12 is a public institution conference of football first schools, and the remaining conferences are not better (and in some cases a lot worse) than the WCC.

Spokane is BFE with regard to the college basketball landscape, and I doubt the University is going to be relocated. So, the reality of the situation is that the ZAGS are in the WCC for the foreseeable future.

We do the best we can in the OOC schedule, it's just too bad it is so far removed from March. Can't do anything more than we are already doing.

It's great to dream, please just do so through a pair of reality glasses. My dream as a GU student was to be on the basketball team, but at 5'-11" and with no quickness to close on a 3-point shooter, my reality glasses showed me the way to Civil Engineering.

Go ZAGS

cjm720
03-25-2013, 11:38 AM
WCC softens us every year without a doubt, but in an era of parity (except Kentucky every other year, apparently) wins over higher seeeds are expected. Sucks to be the first out, just ask Georgetown. Being #1 also meant a bigger target on our back...we're used to that in the WCC, but not outside of it.

The coach at Florida GC is gone after this year and they'll be back to being no one; Our coach has stuck with us and we've grown mighitly as a program. I'd prefer the latter

Personally, and this might sound funny, but I want to do it the hard way. I want to be the first mid-major to win a NC in over 20 years and I think we have the program and coach to do it.

Schedule some OOC tough games in late February and early March and that will help us get out of the WCC lull.

cjm720
03-25-2013, 11:41 AM
I disagree. Blaming the WCC for us coming out flat and sloppy is just an excuse.

We played tougher in the WCC than we did against Southern and WSU. So how can we blame the 10th best conference for Bell getting hurt, all our missed bunnies and WSU shooting 50% from three?

If I've learned anything this year, rankings mean nothing. PItt at #17 or Southern's conference as second to last. Rankings IMO are part of the problem...too much parity only leads to what ifs and told you sos.

gamagin
03-25-2013, 11:42 AM
Like you too, Gam. Sure there isn't a hint of blind loyalty there, though? ;)

Hearsay for sure. But there is more than an element of truth in the ESPN assessment.

I prefer to think of it as wide-open-eyed loyalty.

best,

ZagLawGrad
03-25-2013, 12:17 PM
Where are the ZAGS going to go???? Every conference east of the Rockies is geographically untenable, the PAC-12 is a public institution conference of football first schools, and the remaining conferences are not better (and in some cases a lot worse) than the WCC.

Spokane is BFE with regard to the college basketball landscape, and I doubt the University is going to be relocated. So, the reality of the situation is that the ZAGS are in the WCC for the foreseeable future.

We do the best we can in the OOC schedule, it's just too bad it is so far removed from March. Can't do anything more than we are already doing.

It's great to dream, please just do so through a pair of reality glasses. My dream as a GU student was to be on the basketball team, but at 5'-11" and with no quickness to close on a 3-point shooter, my reality glasses showed me the way to Civil Engineering.

Go ZAGS

Tacoma---Mountain West? Nothing too bad geographically there.

Oregonzagnut
03-25-2013, 12:39 PM
If I've learned anything this year, rankings mean nothing. PItt at #17 or Southern's conference as second to last. Rankings IMO are part of the problem...too much parity only leads to what ifs and told you sos.

I agree and the expectations the rankings generate for everyone do no good. IMO, the WCC was adequate this year and was not the problem. At least the biggest problem. I am fine with the WCC and the fact that we own it. IF we can keep our heads on straight in March, we will avoid early losses.

ZagLawGrad
03-25-2013, 12:51 PM
I agree and the expectations the rankings generate for everyone do no good. IMO, the WCC was adequate this year and was not the problem. At least the biggest problem. I am fine with the WCC and the fact that we own it. IF we can keep our heads on straight in March, we will avoid early losses.

WCC was pretty bad. And it is part of the problem.

Can't see how it was even remotely adequate when comparing the Zags to the national programs the team runs with.

Pepperdine, LMU and USF have pretty much been an embrassment to the league for some time now, IMO.

cjm720
03-25-2013, 12:54 PM
WCC was pretty bad. And it is part of the problem.

Can't see how it was even remotely adequate when comparing the Zags to the national programs the team runs with.

Pepperdine, LMU and USF have pretty much been an embrassment to the league for some time now, IMO.

The beauty of college hoops these days is parity. Anyone can beat anyone, Gonzaga proved it both ways.

ZagLawGrad
03-25-2013, 12:58 PM
The beauty of college hoops these days is parity. Anyone can beat anyone, Gonzaga proved it both ways.

Indeed they did

Oregonzagnut
03-25-2013, 01:10 PM
WCC was pretty bad. And it is part of the problem.

Can't see how it was even remotely adequate when comparing the Zags to the national programs the team runs with.

Pepperdine, LMU and USF have pretty much been an embrassment to the league for some time now, IMO.

The WCC is a better than average conference even without Gonzaga. The RPI without Gonzaga is right at about #13.

Do you judge a conference by its basement dwellers? Do you define the Big 10 by Penn St Northwestern and Nebraska? Is the ACC defined by Virginia Tech, Clemson and Wake F. Is Pac 12 defined by Oregon St, Utah and Wash St?

The WCC has Gonzaga, BYU, St Marys. Gonzaga gets elevated play that any power school would crack under if they were hated as much as Gonzaga is hated.

Florida Gulf Coast proves that it is not the size of the dog in the fight. It is the size of the fight in the dog. Cliche? Yes. but it is true. Gonzaga had more fight to go undefeated in conference than we did to go undefeated in the big Dance.

we lost due to our mental state. Not our conference. The WCC created Gonzaga iin a way just as much as our staff did. Our situation is inseparable and the wCC helped create the #1 ranked team in the nation. But we let our guard down. Both figuratively and literally.

14 threes..... Bell getting hurt..... Sloppy tentative play.....

Again those are things that caused us to lose. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it until someone shows me different. The kinds of student athletes that will choose private Christian based schools will choose Gonzaga. We will continue to get better kids and we will continue to be int he conversation for 4-5 star recruits. Even more so now despite losing in the 2nd round.

32-3.....

TheReasonableZag
03-25-2013, 01:16 PM
The WCC is a better than average conference even without Gonzaga. The RPI without Gonzaga is right at about #13.

Do you judge a conference by its basement dwellers? Do you define the Big 10 by Penn St Northwestern and Nebraska?

Is the ACC defined by Virginia Tech, Clemson and Wake F.

Is Pac 12 defined by Oregon St, Utah and Wash St?

Shall I go on?

The WCC has Gonzaga, BYU, St Marys. Gonzaga gets elevated play that any power school would crack under if they were hated as much as Gonzaga is hated.

Florida Gulf Coast proves that it is not the size of the dog in the fight. It is the size of the fight in the dog. Cliche? Yes. but it is true. Gonzaga had more fight to go undefeated in conference than we did to go undefeated in the big Dance.

we lost due to our mental state. Not our conference. The WCC created Gonzaga iin a way just as much as our staff did. Our situation is inseparable and the wCC helped create the #1 ranked team in the nation. But we let our guard down. Both figuratively and literally.

14 threes..... Bell getting hurt..... Sloppy tentative play.....

Again those are things that caused us to lose. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it until someone shows me different. The kinds of student athletes that will choose private Christian based schools will choose Gonzaga. We will continue to get better kids and we will continue to be int he conversation for 4-5 star recruits. Even more so now despite losing in the 2nd round.

32-3.....

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Seriously: if Butler can make consecutive finals from the craptastic Horizon league, and George Mason can make the final four from the CAA, why can't Gonzaga make it from the WCC -- a league that is better top to bottom than either of those leagues?

Should Georgetown leave the Big East because they lost to FGCU? Should New Mexico leave the MWC because they lost to Harvard? This is nonsense.

ZagLawGrad
03-25-2013, 01:24 PM
Oregon----Silly arguments about the celler dwellars in the Big 10, et. al. The cellar dwellers in those conferences would likely wipe the floor with USF, Pepp, LMU.

Admittedly, conferences are certainly not the tell all. Can't blame the WCC entirely for the fact that the the Zags did not play well in SLC.

But if you are suggesting that a change to a better conference wouldn't make a difference in the Zags being better prepared and respected nationally leading up to the Dance, then count me out.

I'm been convinced and am on any bandwagon for a move to a better and more respected conference, if any such opportunity presents itself.

It's time to listen a bit to the outside critics, and glean some of the things that actually make sense. And one of them is that the WCC is a soft conference under most comparisons to the programs the Zags want to be aligned with on a national level. That's just a plain and simple fact.

Schmitty
03-25-2013, 01:26 PM
It will all be over come next Thursday when the games resume. Another #1 seed will lose at some point, and the focus will be on them instead of Gonzaga. Until then, cheer on GU baseball or something. They're pretty good too.

ZAGGED OUT
03-25-2013, 04:33 PM
We will continue to get better kids and we will continue to be int he conversation for 4-5 star recruits. Even more so now despite losing in the 2nd round.

32-3.....

I don't think we've been in the conversation for a 5 star, all 4's that I know of. I honestly don't see how you think we'll still be on those guys lists after our flameout. Getting better recruits is pretty much out of the question. How would it ever improve with a loss like the one we had?

Oregonzagnut
03-25-2013, 04:42 PM
I don't think we've been in the conversation for a 5 star, all 4's that I know of. I honestly don't see how you think we'll still be on those guys lists after our flameout. Getting better recruits is pretty much out of the question. How would it ever improve with a loss like the one we had?

We have had 3 losses just like this one. 4 2nd round losses. Did that stop Pangos and Bell from coming? Did that prevent Coleman and Nunez from transferring? Karnowski?

We will see what happens. but I think our season and our programs long term success and 32 wins will mean more than 1 loss.

That is just my opinion and if I am wrong and we don't get equal or better recruits then I will admit it. but we still got better recruits after our UCLA collapse. this loss was not as bad as that IMO. We lost our best starting defender and they hit 14 threes. Most people will see the 20-30 improvements this year and for this program than the 1 bad loss. Time will tell but I have faith.

Bocco
03-25-2013, 04:51 PM
Feel free to move, Mods, if this is repetitive.


Repetitive? Do you think? You have mad so many posts about believing GU should change conferences I've run out of fingers and toes to count them all.:D

TacomaZAG
03-25-2013, 07:11 PM
The Mt. West is pretty much the only possibility, but in terms of results in the Tourney, I think they are worse than the WCC, at least in the last decade. New Mexico hasn't made it out of the first weekend since the mid-70's, and I don't think Colorado St. and S. Dakota St. elevate the conference above the WCC. SDSU (I think they are in the Mt. West) brings some firepower but I don't think they have been beyond the first weekend for a long time either.

Compare the location of the other "big name" non-BCS schools. Butler is in the middle of basketball crazy Indiana and their runs were fueled by a single NBA prospect and a capable supporting cast, while VCU is on the east coast and near numerous population centers. I don't include George Mason on this list as their 15 minutes were up a long time ago. My point is that Spokane is the geographic wasteland with respect to college basketball and population centers, so we are starting the recruiting battle with one hand tied behind our back.

Given the geographic constraints, with regard to both conference affiliation and recruiting pull, GU has done incredibly well..........

Go ZAGS

zagray
03-25-2013, 07:17 PM
He has been gone since 2007, only one sweet 16 since.

NEC26
03-25-2013, 07:22 PM
I really don't think it matters what conference you play in really. What does matter is the players you can get though. I have no doubt we would be more attractive to top end recruits if we were in the Pac but it will never happen so why even bring it up? As for MWC pfft why bother?

Vanzagger
03-25-2013, 07:29 PM
He has been gone since 2007, only one sweet 16 since.

Thanks Meech.......ok I'm done

kclubfounder
03-25-2013, 08:01 PM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/conferences/standings/_/id/46/year/2013/atlantic-sun-conference

Oregonzagnut
03-25-2013, 08:20 PM
Would this be a better conference?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/conferences/standings/_/id/46/year/2013/atlantic-sun-conference

BYU just beat Mercer by 19 in the NIT.

Reborn
03-26-2013, 12:07 AM
I am glad Brad Stevens (Butler's coach) and Mark Few are good friends. I think Brad is one of the best, if not best, young coaches in the USA. I notice that Butler left whatever league that they were in when they made it to the final 4 twice. First they moved to the Atlantic 10 last year, and now I see that they are moving to the Big East conference. I imagine that Brad Stevens thinks like many here on this thread, that the conference Butler was in a couple years ago was not a good enough conference to get Butler to the Elite level that Stevens is after for his program.

Like I said in one of my recent posts, there is not a need to replace Mark Few at Gonzaga, but there is a need for change. Moving to a better conference could be the kind of change that could take Gonzaga's basketball program to another level. But I am also sure that there are other options. I'm not sure what the answer is, and it's not my job to find out. It's Mark Few's and Gonzaga's athletic director's, and I suppose Gonzaga's. But "if you keep doing the same thing you have been doing you will keep getting the same results." I think Gonzaga proved that this year, and it is time for a change.

Bocco
03-26-2013, 06:33 AM
Butler was in the Horizon League and moved to the A-10. I suspect they would have stayed in the A-10 except the Big East breakup. If Gonzaga was in the east or mid-west like Butler there would be opportunities like Butler to change conferences, but Gonzaga is not in the located somewhere east of the Rockies. There are not a plethora of conferences in the west like there are in the east, for better or worse the WCC really is the only one that fits Gonzaga.

TexasZag
03-26-2013, 06:45 AM
Compare the location of the other "big name" non-BCS schools. Butler is in the middle of basketball crazy Indiana and their runs were fueled by a single NBA prospect and a capable supporting cast, while VCU is on the east coast and near numerous population centers. I don't include George Mason on this list as their 15 minutes were up a long time ago. My point is that Spokane is the geographic wasteland with respect to college basketball and population centers, so we are starting the recruiting battle with one hand tied behind our back.

Given the geographic constraints, with regard to both conference affiliation and recruiting pull, GU has done incredibly well..........

Go ZAGS

I have to agree with TacomaZAG, the circumstances under which both Butler and VCU operate and thus experienced their successes are substantially different from those of the Zags. The Zags have done quite well, given their geographic location and conference affiliation. I am amused by individuals who believe somehow that none of that affects the product on the floor. The program's success over the years has helped temper those affects, but they are still consequential as it regards attracting top-of-the-crop recruits.

TexasZagFan
03-26-2013, 07:13 AM
I have to agree with TacomaZAG, the circumstances under which both Butler and VCU operate and thus experienced their successes are substantially different from those of the Zags. The Zags have done quite well, given their geographic location and conference affiliation. I am amused by individuals who believe somehow that none of that affects the product on the floor. The program's success over the years has helped temper those affects, but they are still consequential as it regards attracting top-of-the-crop recruits.

Our opportunity to join up with the Big East will present itself when the Yellowstone Caldera blows its top. It will likely ignite the Bakken shale in North Dakota, creating a massive 1000 mile hole swallowing Montana and Minnesota that takes at least an hour off the flight time from Spokane to Indiana.

Until that happens, we're stuck with a conference that's geographically aligned with Spokane.

Burger Boys don't go to Spokane. Our coaching staff finds good basketball players and develops them into excellent players.

All we can do is keep sawing wood. Or do you want to bring back Adrian Buoncristiani (no offense to Adrian)? Whatever disappointment I have over Saturday's loss is tempered by the other benefits of being a Zag fan:

15 straight trips to the Dance

Seeing my team on real cable stations at least a dozen times a year

Getting a chance to see them in person almost every year, as their schedule usually has a game within a reasonable drive from Dallas

When I do make the trip, the players are gracious enough to spend a few moments for pictures with us:

http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=56

http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=53

More importantly, I know these young men are diligent students and will represent Gonzaga well long after they graduate. I'm thankful that they chose Gonzaga to pursue their ambitions.

scott257
03-26-2013, 07:25 AM
Our opportunity to join up with the Big East will present itself when the Yellowstone Caldera blows its top. It will likely ignite the Bakken shale in North Dakota, creating a massive 1000 mile hole swallowing Montana and Minnesota that takes at least an hour off the flight time from Spokane to Indiana.

Until that happens, we're stuck with a conference that's geographically aligned with Spokane.

Burger Boys don't go to Spokane. Our coaching staff finds good basketball players and develops them into excellent players.

All we can do is keep sawing wood. Or do you want to bring back Adrian Buoncristiani (no offense to Adrian)? Whatever disappointment I have over Saturday's loss is tempered by the other benefits of being a Zag fan:

15 straight trips to the Dance

Seeing my team on real cable stations at least a dozen times a year

Getting a chance to see them in person almost every year, as their schedule usually has a game within a reasonable drive from Dallas

More importantly, I know these young men are diligent students and will represent Gonzaga well long after they graduate. I'm thankful that they chose Gonzaga to pursue their ambitions.

You and I need to meet and have a beer together sometime. I agree with you 100% and even while disappointed in the loss - I will get over it and am already looking forward to next season.

kclubfounder
03-26-2013, 07:33 AM
Our opportunity to join up with the Big East will present itself when the Yellowstone Caldera blows its top. It will likely ignite the Bakken shale in North Dakota, creating a massive 1000 mile hole swallowing Montana and Minnesota that takes at least an hour off the flight time from Spokane to Indiana.

Until that happens, we're stuck with a conference that's geographically aligned with Spokane.

Burger Boys don't go to Spokane. Our coaching staff finds good basketball players and develops them into excellent players.

All we can do is keep sawing wood. Or do you want to bring back Adrian Buoncristiani (no offense to Adrian)? Whatever disappointment I have over Saturday's loss is tempered by the other benefits of being a Zag fan:

15 straight trips to the Dance

Seeing my team on real cable stations at least a dozen times a year

Getting a chance to see them in person almost every year, as their schedule usually has a game within a reasonable drive from Dallas

When I do make the trip, the players are gracious enough to spend a few moments for pictures with us:

http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=56

http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/picture.php?albumid=18&pictureid=53

More importantly, I know these young men are diligent students and will represent Gonzaga well long after they graduate. I'm thankful that they chose Gonzaga to pursue their ambitions.

:cheers:

TexasZag
03-26-2013, 10:27 AM
You and I need to meet and have a beer together sometime. I agree with you 100% and even while disappointed in the loss - I will get over it and am already looking forward to next season.

How about making it a party!

As for the loss, I was at peace with it before the final buzzer. I was happy for the team's success this year and proud to wear the Gonzaga logo on my chest. Next year can't get here fast enough!

As so as not to be misunderstood, I was only speaking to the unique challenges Gonzaga faces being located in Spokane and being affiliated with the WCC. I am not among the "Leave the WCC now or else" crowd. In fact, I think it is our unique challenges, and our record or persevering in spite of those challenges, is what makes us so special. Other schools may catch lightning in a bottle a here and there, but to have a run like this (15 years and running) is something rare indeed.

scott257
03-26-2013, 12:01 PM
Hey I am open to a post season wake. Are you in the DFW area?

TexasZag
03-26-2013, 12:06 PM
I am (FW). I don't know about TexasZagFan, though.

UberZagFan
03-26-2013, 12:28 PM
Blaming the conference is a easy and lazy thing to do for the pundits. It takes too much work and effort to actually analyze the loss by pointing out such things as losing your best perimeter defender down the stretch and allowing the opponent to drop 50%
from 3. Or analyzing why the bigs couldn't put it in the hole. Or any of the other analysis you see from good posters on this board.

Plus blaming the WCC is the trendy thing to do and once it is out there it's easy to cut and paste.

Did the BEast fail to prepare GTown? Did FGCU get tourney preparation from its conference (what is their conference)? UNM suffered a worse loss than GU...did the MWC fail them as well? We could on and on.

With that said, Uber would like to see a change to the conference tourney schedule or some type of post season pre NCAA two day tourney for schools like GU that have such a long break between games. If ESPN is beholden to finishing the WCC up early why not complete it on Saturday and the do a two day four team tourney on the following Thur/Sat.

Zag79
03-26-2013, 01:05 PM
Blaming our conference for the dump we took in the dance is as lazy as excusing winning in March because we have good kids, as if most of the teams that win titles don't. I love how awesome our guys are, I'm good friends with a few myself. The great culture is definitely a big plus of being Gonzaga, but it doesn't have to be either/or. It's not like you can't get past the round of 32 and still have quality kids and a clean program. Just like our conference isn't the reason we lose before we should, consistently to the three ball in the dance. If we change our defensive philosophy when necessary come March, we can win and still continue the excellence our program has committed to all while staying in the WCC.

TexasZag
03-26-2013, 01:27 PM
Blaming the conference is a easy and lazy thing to do for the pundits. It takes too much work and effort to actually analyze the loss by pointing out such things as losing your best perimeter defender down the stretch and allowing the opponent to drop 50%
from 3. Or analyzing why the bigs couldn't put it in the hole. Or any of the other analysis you see from good posters on this board.

3-point defense and problems scoring in the low post are process-level issues. Arguing a causal relationship between the two and our playing in the WCC for two months immediately preceding the NCAA tourney is tenuous at best (though plausible). But more from a different level (program level, if you will), where we are (geographically) and who we are affiliated with, probably do pose some challenges to recruiting that schools from bigger conferences, or that are situated closer to major population centers, do not have. That a program as successful as Gonzaga's does not get 5-star/burger-boy talent is telling, and there has to be a reason that we don't. Question is, is it by design, or is it because of where we are or who we are affiliated with? I don't know the answer, but that's not going to stop me from asking the question. And I certainly do not consider doing so "easy and lazy." To not recognize a potential correlation between conference/geography and our product on the basketball court (which is outstanding in its own right, and the envy of mid-majors everywhere) is to not see the forest for the trees (in my opinion).

TexasZag
03-26-2013, 01:34 PM
If we change our defensive philosophy when necessary come March, we can win and still continue the excellence our program has committed to all while staying in the WCC.

I don't think you just change your defensive philosophy come March and experience success. I think a team's offensive and defensive philosophies are largely dictated by the kids they have on the floor. If you do not have the athleticism to stay in front of fast and athletic guards, then you have to have design and perfect an approach that compensates and does not leave you exposed. And whatever you do you cannot just switch philosophy. Hours and hours of repetition (practice and games) are fundamental to success. Without the preparation, practice, and experience, success is not likely to follow.

Zag79
03-26-2013, 02:01 PM
I don't think you just change your defensive philosophy come March and experience success. I think a team's offensive and defensive philosophies are largely dictated by the kids they have on the floor. If you do not have the athleticism to stay in front of fast and athletic guards, then you have to have design and perfect an approach that compensates and does not leave you exposed. And whatever you do you cannot just switch philosophy. Hours and hours of repetition (practice and games) are fundamental to success. Without the preparation, practice, and experience, success is not likely to follow.

The ability to change and adapt on the fly in the dance is key to pulling out games necessary to make big runs. Our defensive philosophy needs some tweaking if we want to stop falling short of the second weekend, it's obviously not our players inability to play defense as much as a schematic issue.

bartruff1
03-26-2013, 02:19 PM
The ability to make free throws...bunnies...and to avoid bone head plays is key to success in the NCAA Tourney...

Zag79
03-26-2013, 02:22 PM
The ability to make free throws...bunnies...and to avoid bone head plays is key to success in the NCAA Tourney...

I completely agree, to an extent. You can't always outscored your opponent, missing shots in hoops happens. It doesn't mean you should lose every game you can't make as many baskets as you normally do. It's why defense and rebounding are hey to keeping you in games when you can't score. We hit for 70, aside from the usual suspect (lack of three point defense) we scored enough to beat that team.

TexasZag
03-26-2013, 02:45 PM
The ability to change and adapt on the fly in the dance is key to pulling out games necessary to make big runs. Our defensive philosophy needs some tweaking if we want to stop falling short of the second weekend, it's obviously not our players inability to play defense as much as a schematic issue.

Preparation and execution is how you advance. Thinking you can change defensive philosophies on the fly ignores the realities of human behavior. Under stress the human brain curtails intellectual activity and channels instinct. Instinct is a function of what's been ingrained through repetition. This is why teams revert to bad habits when put under stress.

bartruff1
03-26-2013, 02:58 PM
I am almost sure you have to outscore your opponent to win...

Zag79
03-26-2013, 03:10 PM
And you can do so by playing better defense too. We usually do score when we lose, we simply allow more three pointers in losses.

spike_jr
03-26-2013, 03:34 PM
Preparation and execution is how you advance. Thinking you can change defensive philosophies on the fly ignores the realities of human behavior. Under stress the human brain curtails intellectual activity and channels instinct. Instinct is a function of what's been ingrained through repetition. This is why teams AND COACHES revert to bad habits when put under stress.

Honestly, this is what I think happened to Few. I thought he had turned a corner this year. Maybe the tournament pressure made him revert to his old ways. In the past (see UCLA), he would get a lead and have the boys take their foot off of the offensive throttle. IMO, we did this on Saturday too once we had the lead (three man weave at the top of the key and initiating the offense with under 10 on the shot clock thus limiting the offensive options). He did not coach this way most of this season. Once you are up 10, the next goal should be to be up 20. As it has been said, nobody thought LMU was running up the score when Gathers, Kimble, et al were putting 120+ on people every night - it is just the way they played.

Oregonzagnut
03-26-2013, 04:20 PM
Preparation and execution is how you advance. Thinking you can change defensive philosophies on the fly ignores the realities of human behavior. Under stress the human brain curtails intellectual activity and channels instinct. Instinct is a function of what's been ingrained through repetition. This is why teams revert to bad habits when put under stress.

We prepared just fine IMO. The WCC is RPI ranked #10 out of 30 conferences and we went 18-0. Four WCC teams played in the postseason and BYU is still in the NIT!

So that leads to execution. And I think we all agree on that. We had our worst game of the year and they had their best game of the the year. Perimeter defense has been a problem all year and we had one of our worst shooting days of the year.

TexasZagFan
03-27-2013, 04:56 AM
I am (FW). I don't know about TexasZagFan, though.

I live in Irving (Valley Ranch). May I suggest BJ's Brewhouse in Lewisville? I'm a big fan of Pook's Pilsener, occasionally I'll have one of the Trappist brews. Not that I'm a beer snob...I was spoiled during my 4 years in Germany (I'd kill for a Konigsbacher Pils).

This week's out, of course, but my schedule should lighten after Easter. Feel free to send me a PM.

ZagLawGrad
03-27-2013, 08:23 AM
We prepared just fine IMO. The WCC is RPI ranked #10 out of 30 conferences and we went 18-0. Four WCC teams played in the postseason and BYU is still in the NIT!

So that leads to execution. And I think we all agree on that. We had our worst game of the year and they had their best game of the the year. Perimeter defense has been a problem all year and we had one of our worst shooting days of the year.

How does the #1 ranked team in the nation have it's worst game of the year as you characterize it, and was prepared just fine? Not to mention perhaps its second worst game of the year just two days earlier.

I would suggest to you that the other #1 seeds--- who remain on track in the Dance----were prepared, if that's the term to use.

Perhaps the other three #1 seeds were better prepared because they play in the better conferences? Probably or probably not? I say probably.

Ezag
03-27-2013, 08:45 AM
How does the #1 ranked team in the nation have it's worst game of the year as you characterize it, and was prepared just fine? Not to mention perhaps its second worst game of the year just two days earlier.

I would suggest to you that the other #1 seeds--- who remain on track in the Dance----were prepared, if that's the term to use.

Perhaps the other three #1 seeds were better prepared because they play in the better conferences? Probably or probably not? I say probably.

I would agree but we are beating a dead horse here!

ZagLawGrad
03-27-2013, 08:49 AM
I would agree but we are beating a dead horse here!

What else we got to talk about? :o

cjm720
03-27-2013, 12:29 PM
We prepared just fine IMO. The WCC is RPI ranked #10 out of 30 conferences and we went 18-0. Four WCC teams played in the postseason and BYU is still in the NIT!

So that leads to execution. And I think we all agree on that. We had our worst game of the year and they had their best game of the the year. Perimeter defense has been a problem all year and we had one of our worst shooting days of the year.

The Southern game we actually played really well and the numbers bear that out. Fact of the matter, IMO, is that we were likely overrated in polls/ranking largely because the WCC does not prepare us for the big dance, it softens us. We came in expecting a win, Southern came in with the same attitude but a much bigger chip on its shoulder. We played well, just not compared to how we played in the WCC or even some of the OOC games. Same thing can be said of the Wichita State game with the added pressure of a team nailing 14 3s after a game where they made only 2. Losing Bell didn't help things...but we were still close to a W.

I think we just got beat but we would win 3 out of 5 consistently aginst Witchita, again IMO.

ZagFanInNC
03-27-2013, 01:21 PM
I am glad Brad Stevens (Butler's coach) and Mark Few are good friends. I think Brad is one of the best, if not best, young coaches in the USA. I notice that Butler left whatever league that they were in when they made it to the final 4 twice. First they moved to the Atlantic 10 last year, and now I see that they are moving to the Big East conference. I imagine that Brad Stevens thinks like many here on this thread, that the conference Butler was in a couple years ago was not a good enough conference to get Butler to the Elite level that Stevens is after for his program.

Like I said in one of my recent posts, there is not a need to replace Mark Few at Gonzaga, but there is a need for change. Moving to a better conference could be the kind of change that could take Gonzaga's basketball program to another level. But I am also sure that there are other options. I'm not sure what the answer is, and it's not my job to find out. It's Mark Few's and Gonzaga's athletic director's, and I suppose Gonzaga's. But "if you keep doing the same thing you have been doing you will keep getting the same results." I think Gonzaga proved that this year, and it is time for a change.

+1, Excellent post