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jazzdelmar
03-24-2013, 04:33 AM
Big picture, GU played eight quarters in the post season. Against highly motivated teams but neither had any future NBA players much less lottery picks. Just nice unranked teams with good college players. WSU lost six conference games.

GU was clearly the better team in just two of the quarters -- the 4th agst southern and the 3d yesterday. GU was just not prepared for the post season.

Looking ahead in terms of personnel, the cupboard is nearly bare. Three terrific Zags leave, each with his own style of brilliance. Coleman was a 2nd tier Big East star, he wont be a messiah. The bigs coming in are multiyear projects. Nunez is unknown.

KP, Bell, Karno, Dower are good if not very good college players. They are not DD, Gray, Harris, KO, Sacre, et al. Never will be. KD is no Blake S.

Lean years ahead, by that I mean 25 wins, 6-8 seed, one and done. This was the brass ring. We failed to inbound it.

bartruff1
03-24-2013, 05:51 AM
The big picture to me is that Gonzaga will win 20 games next year... contend for the WCC title and tourney championships be ranked in the top 30 and probably go to the NCAA Tourney where they willl have a chance to win a game or two. Just like my expectations for this year were.

I never imagined that this team would be so successful and that Kelly would be a All American.

I would not be surprised if Few doesn't pull another rabbit out of his hat next year and find another skilled player or maybe two.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if I was unhappy with the coach and the players and the conference and the results...well...I would find a team that would meet my expectations....there are a bunch of them out there.

gonwick
03-24-2013, 06:07 AM
If no one expects better of this team, it will never do better. If we don't like the conference, the team should look into moving conferences. If the coach gets beat repeatedly by the same thing, someone should help him do better, probably a new assistant coach. If this team's early tournament exit didn't dissapoint you, then you didn't think very highly of this team. If few didn't realize that wsu was going to beat him from 3 before the game, he should have realized it during the game along with the millions watching. Again, maybe a new assistant can help him with in game management, a long term few flaw. Next year, my expectations are going to be different than this year, because the team will be mediocre. This year, they could have and should have done better.

As an aside, maybe could those at home explain the ds for kd sub? To me in the arena it made no sense and seemed to coincide with the collapse.

NEC26
03-24-2013, 06:34 AM
The big picture to me is that Gonzaga will win 20 games next year... contend for the WCC title and tourney championships be ranked in the top 30 and probably go to the NCAA Tourney where they willl have a chance to win a game or two. Just like my expectations for this year were.

I never imagined that this team would be so successful and that Kelly would be a All American.

I would not be surprised if Few doesn't pull another rabbit out of his hat next year and find another skilled player or maybe two.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if I was unhappy with the coach and the players and the conference and the results...well...I would find a team that would meet my expectations....there are a bunch of them out there.

The fact is though that Kelly did improve to an elite level(which is encouraging) and our path was open to a final four and we didn't take advantage. Its worse than losing to UCLA we had a wide open path and failed to capitalize.
It doesn't matter what anyones expectations were at the start of the year this was a darn good team and it is so frustrating to not get at least to the elite eight.
I also think its time to rethink our sagging help defense. How many times is that going to burn us before we acknowledge its not a fluke. Some of those threes were lucky but we allowed them to get going and we couldn't stop the flow.
I know we don't want Kelly in foul trouble but darn it Sam and Prezmic are not bad back ups should Harris (who did not play well in either tourney game) or Kelly have to sit for a bit.
I feel like I've been kicked in the gut and I am almost wondering if my following of the Zags is just plain unhealthy. So disappointed and dissatisfied with how this season ended.

FlatheadZag
03-24-2013, 06:36 AM
We're getting roasted in the national press this morning. The slipper doesn't fit anymore. We'll need to re-tool and move on, but man this one really stings.

Rio Runner
03-24-2013, 06:41 AM
The fact is though that Kelly did improve to an elite level(which is encouraging) and our path was open to a final four and we didn't take advantage. Its worse than losing to UCLA we had a wide open path and failed to capitalize.
It doesn't matter what anyones expectations were at the start of the year this was a darn good team and it is so frustrating to not get at least to the elite eight.
I also think its time to rethink our sagging help defense. How many times is that going to burn us before we acknowledge its not a fluke. Some of those threes were lucky but we allowed them to get going and we couldn't stop the flow.
I know we don't want Kelly in foul trouble but darn it Sam and Prezmic are not bad back ups should Harris (who did not play well in either tourney game) or Kelly have to sit for a bit.
I feel like I've been kicked in the gut and I am almost wondering if my following of the Zags is just plain unhealthy. So disappointed and dissatisfied with how this season ended.

Agreed. We will never have an opportunity like this again.

cjm720
03-24-2013, 07:00 AM
Agreed. We will never have an opportunity like this again.

That's bull####. We constantly do better than expected, until the tourney. We need to schedule OOC games in March to prep us.

Great season and next year will be just as good or better by the end of the year.

bartruff1
03-24-2013, 07:04 AM
It is hard to imagine a bracket breaking better than that... it might...but..

FGZagDad
03-24-2013, 07:07 AM
It will be a tough couple of days in the press. Crushing loss but the sun comes up and life moves on. Great season, great kids and coaches who accomplished a lot..if even not enough.

Looking forward to next season.

gamagin
03-24-2013, 07:16 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/mar/24/in-biggest-weekend-zags-dont-bring-a-game/

TexasZag
03-24-2013, 07:23 AM
If no one expects better of this team, it will never do better. If we don't like the conference, the team should look into moving conferences. If the coach gets beat repeatedly by the same thing, someone should help him do better, probably a new assistant coach. If this team's early tournament exit didn't dissapoint you, then you didn't think very highly of this team. If few didn't realize that wsu was going to beat him from 3 before the game, he should have realized it during the game along with the millions watching. Again, maybe a new assistant can help him with in game management, a long term few flaw. Next year, my expectations are going to be different than this year, because the team will be mediocre. This year, they could have and should have done better.

As an aside, maybe could those at home explain the ds for kd sub? To me in the arena it made no sense and seemed to coincide with the collapse.

I don't think anyone can expect more of this team than they do of themselves, and I doubt their expectations were any less than the NC. So I'd say that your first statement is pure BS.

As for assistant coaches, these "better assistants" first have to want to be here. They've upgraded their coaching staff substantially over the years and because of it are starting to recruit better athletes from all over. Next argument?

I don't think anyone is not disappointed with last night's loss. So what of it? Jump off of a bridge?

Do you think the coaching staff told the team to quit guarding the perimeter? The absence of our best on-ball, perimeter defender was a huge factor in WSU's success from beyond the arc. Injuries happen.

As for the coaching decisions, I wasn't privy to the factors that led to the decisions, so I am not in a position to criticize. You, however, apparently were. Nice to know you are so well connected that you have that kind of inside knowledge.

Birddog
03-24-2013, 07:57 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/mar/24/in-biggest-weekend-zags-dont-bring-a-game/
Thanks, good piece, certainly better than the drivel on this board.

jazzdelmar
03-24-2013, 08:09 AM
half GU spin, half good journalism. kelly's take is as wistful as few's, major mind meld there. i prefer pangos' take.

gonwick
03-24-2013, 08:34 AM
I would have thought it obvious my reply was in reference to bartruff telling Jazz to find another team to root for because jazz like many of us had lofty expectations for the season. I quoted you so you would understand that this post is referring to yours. I know the team wanted a nc, as i read obsessively and follow them closely.

As for staff, I have no interest in few leaving, but someone has to change the defense. If the current staff hasn't figured it out for years, why not look for fresh ideas? It seems like if someone came in as an asst (by nature someone looking for asst position is not high powered and looking to prove themselves and thus might consider a small market like gu) and turned gu's tournament rate around, they could use the position as a stepping stone.

Mike said after the game that they didn't expect them to shoot like that, suggesting that the coaches had planned on leaving open the 3. I expected them to go off from 3. We all did. But if you take away zag history and say, this team will shoot its percentages, then anyone could see that this wasn't a typical night and adjustments should still have been made. I would love it if someone who did have access to inside information could tell us the strategy behind the decisions made, because to an outside observer (as in years past) they seemed like bad decisions. Simply assuming that they were good coaching decisions because the staff made them is a recipe for disaster for the program.

As mentioned by another, the definition of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting different results. A bit like me posting this reply.



I don't think anyone can expect more of this team than they do of themselves, and I doubt their expectations were any less than the NC. So I'd say that your first statement is pure BS.

As for assistant coaches, these "better assistants" first have to want to be here. They've upgraded their coaching staff substantially over the years and because of it are starting to recruit better athletes from all over. Next argument?

I don't think anyone is not disappointed with last night's loss. So what of it? Jump off of a bridge?

Do you think the coaching staff told the team to quit guarding the perimeter? The absence of our best on-ball, perimeter defender was a huge factor in WSU's success from beyond the arc. Injuries happen.

As for the coaching decisions, I wasn't privy to the factors that led to the decisions, so I am not in a position to criticize. You, however, apparently were. Nice to know you are so well connected that you have that kind of inside knowledge.

jazzdelmar
03-24-2013, 09:00 AM
gotcha Gonwick, i missed that invitation to leave. i guess the intent of some posters here is to winnow the membership on this board down to diehard, uncritical Mark Few acolytes only. any opinion otherwise isnt welcome. too bad. be careful what u wish for.

john montana
03-24-2013, 09:04 AM
It is just sad. Only way to describe it. We deserve to get roasted, that was a golden opportunity...lost. I think the pressure of the #1 was just too much. Wish we had gotten the 2...we would have played better. I agree with jazz re: next year too. With KO, eh and hart gone it is going to be a long year. This stinks.

vandalzag
03-24-2013, 09:33 AM
gotcha Gonwick, i missed that invitation to leave. i guess the intent of some posters here is to winnow the membership on this board down to diehard, uncritical Mark Few acolytes only. any opinion otherwise isnt welcome. too bad. be careful what u wish for.

Your wrong with that. The problem with people like you is you take more joy in the loss than you do the win. Maybe just your nature but it is an old and tired act. Your predict 20 seasons and early departures, that this was the one chance for GU to make a run. What were your expectations prior to this year? Did you predict the success this team would have during the season? In a word NO.

I really can't understand the type of person the revels in the sorrow and disappointment of others. The type of person who can only focus on the shortcomings(real or perceived) of others. All while hiding behind the anonymity of a user name on some message board.

No rational member of this board wants a closed society whose dogma revolves around the belief that GU can do no wrong. You should possess the base amount of intelligence to recognize that. But your post this morning was offensive and ill timed, just as you intended. You are the epitome of an internet troll, just looking for people to give you attention and taking pleasure in the fact the people get upset. When you are called out for your BS you hide behind the "people are not allowed to be critical on this site" answer as some weak justification for you ### stirring.
So moving forward we can look forward to more over of your "critical" comments, doomsday predictions, and disdain for ant type of optimism towards the success of upcoming season. And then if the team gets on a roll you will jump on the bandwagon until the season ends, where you return to your celebration of the failure and shortcomings of the program.

The question to you if the program is doomed as you put it, why do you continue to pretend to "support" the program? And why on earth would you continue to post on a message board for a team that will not reach your measure or definition of success?

MickMick
03-24-2013, 09:51 AM
The whole top third of the WCC will be down. BYU has a good shot to take it.

USD will believe they have a chance. USF has a lot of upside. Pacific may surprise everyone.

Pangos is now officially GU's best player. Perhaps not a bad thing. Would have preferred riding him a bit more anyway. Never did think that he was used enough as a scoring option. The pick n roll would have been more effective if he shot a few more pick n pops.

David Stockton is too much of a risk taker. Dower swings wildly between clutch and liability. Karnowski could use a KO like redshirt.

More freedom for Dranginis is needed.

zag944
03-24-2013, 10:12 AM
I think Bell and Pangos have the potential to be as good as any guards this program has had since Dickau. Pangos is amongst the early contenders for WCC player of the year.

Karnowski is very much a project. But a project with a very high ceiling. After seeing what Kelly did I have hopes that I don't think are too far out of bounds that the staff will really tap into this potential.

Stockton and Dower are solid college players who have been in the system for 4 years now. Barham fills a solid spot in the lineup. KD has been around 2 years and has potential. Coleman could be really good.

Obviously we missed a great shot this year, but I see the program being in much better shape than say, the two years after Morrison.

Rio Runner
03-24-2013, 10:16 AM
I think Bell and Pangos have the potential to be as good as any guards this program has had since Dickau. Pangos is amongst the early contenders for WCC player of the year.

Pangos is a player, but Bell is a zero. I will be disappointed next year if he takes minutes from Drangini, Coleman, and Barham, and I'm hoping he transfers.

And on a related note, are Pangos, Bell, and Stockton the LEAST ATHLETIC guards you have ever seen in your life? Have any of them dunked the ball even once in their college careers? That's one reason we have trouble defending the three. We have no athletes on the perimeter.

zag944
03-24-2013, 10:21 AM
Pangos is a player, but Bell is a zero. I will be disappointed next year if he takes minutes from Drangini, Coleman, and Barham, and I'm hoping he transfers.



This is absolutely insane to me.

deathchina
03-24-2013, 10:24 AM
Bell defends pretty well and makes 3's. That's a very useful player to have on your team. He isn't without flaws though. He isn't a shot creator, doesn't have have a handle, and plays at only one speed.

You are right...these guys aren't great athletes. I'm most concerned with Pangos' lack of foot speed, which really limits him defensively.

As for the lack of dunks..Bell has dunked at least once in his GU career. Not that being able to dunk means you are athletic...I'm 6 feet tall, fat, in my 30's, and I can dunk a basketball when my knees aren't acting up.

Personally, give me quickness over leaping ability in your guards......




Pangos is a player, but Bell is a zero. I will be disappointed next year if he takes minutes from Drangini, Coleman, and Barham, and I'm hoping he transfers.

And on a related note, are Pangos, Bell, and Stockton the LEAST ATHLETIC guards you have ever seen in your life? Have any of them dunked the ball even once in their college careers? That's one reason we have trouble defending the three. We have no athletes on the perimeter.

rennis
03-24-2013, 10:33 AM
GU will own the WCC next year. Not the least bit worried about getting back to the dance. This is all about blowing this opportunity, the best the school has ever had and likely wont be seen again any time soon. Onions.

My only beef with Few and the team was the aura about this weekend. "Having fun" and "just want to keep playing together" is great, but this isn't high school. Next time GU has a 1 seed I want the aura to be "we want to smash people, and show the world what we are made of."

Sigh...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

vandalzag
03-24-2013, 10:33 AM
Pangos is a player, but Bell is a zero. I will be disappointed next year if he takes minutes from Drangini, Coleman, and Barham, and I'm hoping he transfers.

And on a related note, are Pangos, Bell, and Stockton the LEAST ATHLETIC guards you have ever seen in your life? Have any of them dunked the ball even once in their college careers? That's one reason we have trouble defending the three. We have no athletes on the perimeter.

Wow a Zero that is awesome. A zero who shoots plus 40 from three and averages double figures in an offen se where he is the fifth option on any given set. You are brilliant basketball mind.

This is not the AndOne tour, the ability to dunk a basketball has nothing to do ones ability to play the game. Just for you limited acumen you can refer to John Stockton and Steve Nash as Guards who played the game on the floor. And how would dunking the basketball impact your ability to defend a 3pt shot?

Birddog
03-24-2013, 10:42 AM
Good grief Vandal, you're just letting the air out of everyone's tires. I guess your handle is apropos.

TexasZag
03-24-2013, 10:54 AM
Mike said after the game that they didn't expect them to shoot like that, suggesting that the coaches had planned on leaving open the 3.
As mentioned by another, the definition of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting different results. A bit like me posting this reply.

To say that they intentionally left the 3 open because "they didn't expect them to shoot like that" is an erroneous assumption. And many of their second half 3's were from well beyond the arc. Unless you have someone like Ohio State's Aaron Craft out there, you just don't chase them back that deep, especially when they have athletes that can score and/or create for others off the dribble. Once Gary Bell went down, our ability to defend the perimeter took a serious hit. And while the nay-sayers argue that we weren't playing well with Gary, He was a factor in reducing the 13-point deficit in the first half, getting to within 3 before WSU scored on a tip at the buzzer.

Einstein's definition of insanity is to repeat the same actions and expecting different results; however, this is not the textbook definition. Conversely, Malcolm Gladwell's theory of 10,000 Hours of Practice to Achieve Perfection suggests that the best course of action is to remain committed to the approach, and that as our backcourt matures they'll improve accordingly. Human beings are not machines. It's not simply a process of finding the right approach. Any meaningful change takes time and serious repetition to master.

jazzdelmar
03-24-2013, 10:54 AM
Good grief Vandal, you're just letting the air out of everyone's tires. I guess your handle is apropos.

Putting out fires all across the board, it must be exhausting being him, BD.

MontanaZag
03-24-2013, 10:55 AM
Your wrong with that. The problem with people like you is you take more joy in the loss than you do the win. Maybe just your nature but it is an old and tired act. Your predict 20 seasons and early departures, that this was the one chance for GU to make a run. What were your expectations prior to this year? Did you predict the success this team would have during the season? In a word NO.

I really can't understand the type of person the revels in the sorrow and disappointment of others. The type of person who can only focus on the shortcomings(real or perceived) of others. All while hiding behind the anonymity of a user name on some message board.

No rational member of this board wants a closed society whose dogma revolves around the belief that GU can do no wrong. You should possess the base amount of intelligence to recognize that. But your post this morning was offensive and ill timed, just as you intended. You are the epitome of an internet troll, just looking for people to give you attention and taking pleasure in the fact the people get upset. When you are called out for your BS you hide behind the "people are not allowed to be critical on this site" answer as some weak justification for you ### stirring.
So moving forward we can look forward to more over of your "critical" comments, doomsday predictions, and disdain for ant type of optimism towards the success of upcoming season. And then if the team gets on a roll you will jump on the bandwagon until the season ends, where you return to your celebration of the failure and shortcomings of the program.

The question to you if the program is doomed as you put it, why do you continue to pretend to "support" the program? And why on earth would you continue to post on a message board for a team that will not reach your measure or definition of success?

This is spot frickin on!

Mantua
03-24-2013, 11:05 AM
This year for Bell has been a lot like Harris' bad year. Their production suffered because of INJURIES. Bell did awfully well despite his health problems and last night's ankle/foot injury was terrible luck for him and for the team.

GorgeZag
03-24-2013, 11:14 AM
Bells fine defensivly, but just shooting the 3 ball is not what we need from a starting 2 guard.
Pangos was playing off the ball quite a bit after Bell got hurt, and he seems to do better in that situation. Unfourtunatly our backup PG is a liability.

btzag
03-24-2013, 11:33 AM
All this talk about individual players and trying to find someone, ANYONE, to blame for our disappointment is very misguided. I know it hurts right now but you all are grasping at straws.

We've had AA's like Dickau or great players like Stepp, etc who got bounced early on in the tourney, but since those memories are in the past we tend to forget about it and just try and crush the individual players we have. Don't understand this mindset! The tourney is setup for upsets and especially the college game with the 3-ball. How do you think Georgetown, New Mexico, Wisconsin, KSU or St Louis feel right now? Should all their players transfer, coaches fired, etc because the team on the other side got hot or your team had an off night?

I for one am excited about the team returning next year and the new guys that will be added in. At this time last year NONE of us would have predicted a 1 seed or being ranked #1 overall, can't wait to see what next years team has in store for us.

Zags11
03-24-2013, 11:47 AM
I love every yr. When I saw Kellys transformation, I had a wonderful feeling. Everything seemed to fall into place. Then same old early exit, same poor 3pt defense strategy. I will still root every yr the same but expectation wont be the same. I am fine with early exits with a over achieving team. Too many great Zag squads have been bounced too quick.

bostonzagfan
03-24-2013, 12:01 PM
big picture is that we need to upset a team in the tournament before we get lofty seeding again.

TheGonzagaFactor
03-24-2013, 12:45 PM
It is hard to imagine a bracket breaking better than that... it might...but..

Exactly. This was the year and we couldn't do it. And CJ, good luck getting OOC games in March.. give me a break.

maynard g krebs
03-24-2013, 01:45 PM
Gary Bell averaged 28 ppg in Washington's best 4A league, and one of the state's top 2 leagues overall. More than Brandon Roy, Rodney Stuckey, Aaron Brooks, Luke Ridnour, Dan Dickau, Blake Stepp, I could go on and on. On 45% 3pt shooting and 56% fg against constant double teams from the SPSL's best players.

When he came to GU, CDC for one talked about his strength and finishing ability at the rim. GB has been willing to take a back seat to this team's front line scorers. He's capable of creating shots and hitting from well behind the line. I've seen it. My only issue with him is that he's unselfish to a fault.

Raivio averaged what, 18 his last year? Scoring is down overall since then, but Bell is DR's equal as a shooter and a better scorer in every other way. Other than aggressiveness, which he had by necessity in hs.

If he's not the scorer I know he can be as an upperclassman, I'll consider it a failure by the staff. Run some plays for him and get him off.

maynard g krebs
03-24-2013, 01:49 PM
Pangos is a player, but Bell is a zero. I will be disappointed next year if he takes minutes from Drangini, Coleman, and Barham, and I'm hoping he transfers.


And your grade for this post is a zero.

webspinnre
03-24-2013, 02:00 PM
Pangos is a player, but Bell is a zero. I will be disappointed next year if he takes minutes from Drangini, Coleman, and Barham, and I'm hoping he transfers.

And on a related note, are Pangos, Bell, and Stockton the LEAST ATHLETIC guards you have ever seen in your life? Have any of them dunked the ball even once in their college careers? That's one reason we have trouble defending the three. We have no athletes on the perimeter.

:ban:

Seriously, personal attacks on players?

Also, personal attacks on other posters? Questioning their fandom? How wonderful.

I'm intensely disappointed by the loss, and each of us has our own method of grieving. Jazz's is more negative, some others' are more positive, but attacking other people just isn't cool. The fact is, they made plays down the stretch, we didn't. Much like IU and OSU made plays down the stretch and ISU and Temple couldn't do quite as much. It happens. I purposely avoided this board for something like 18 hours just to avoid the risk of having any such attacks on folks.

bostonzagfan
03-24-2013, 02:21 PM
Gary Bell averaged 28 ppg in Washington's best 4A league, and one of the state's top 2 leagues overall. More than Brandon Roy, Rodney Stuckey, Aaron Brooks, Luke Ridnour, Dan Dickau, Blake Stepp, I could go on and on. On 45% 3pt shooting and 56% fg against constant double teams from the SPSL's best players.

When he came to GU, CDC for one talked about his strength and finishing ability at the rim. GB has been willing to take a back seat to this team's front line scorers. He's capable of creating shots and hitting from well behind the line. I've seen it. My only issue with him is that he's unselfish to a fault.

Raivio averaged what, 18 his last year? Scoring is down overall since then, but Bell is DR's equal as a shooter and a better scorer in every other way. Other than aggressiveness, which he had by necessity in hs.

If he's not the scorer I know he can be as an upperclassman, I'll consider it a failure by the staff. Run some plays for him and get him off.

i just don't understand how bell's hs career has translated to what it has so far.

gonwick
03-24-2013, 02:29 PM
As many have said above, this was the year. We had a dominant front line that theoretically should have allowed our defenders to aggressively guard the 3 rather than sagging off. In terms of hopes that more time in the system for players will lead to success against the three, GU has been doing the same thing for years now, and no different results. Seniors have cycled through with no improvement, seniors taller than our current crop. Plus, during the collapse against WSU, it was a true senior (EH), redshirt juniors effectively seniors (KO and DS), a redshirt senior (MH), and Kevin, who is reportedly a gym rat, very coachable, and has had two years in the system. Next year, the collective group executing defense will be more junior, not more senior.

I also don't understand how people just blow off 3 point defense as fantasy. Kenpom acknowledges that defense can make a difference in number of attempts, if not percentages. The only way WSU could beat us was with the 3, and that's what we left open. The 3 is the great equalizer in the tournament as others have noted above. It is what teams with less talent do to get by. It is what we will do next year. Does anyone believe that other teams won't put a man on Kevin no matter where he is on the floor? Of course they will.

Zags11
03-24-2013, 02:44 PM
As many have said above, this was the year. We had a dominant front line that theoretically should have allowed our defenders to aggressively guard the 3 rather than sagging off. In terms of hopes that more time in the system for players will lead to success against the three, GU has been doing the same thing for years now, and no different results. Seniors have cycled through with no improvement, seniors taller than our current crop. Plus, during the collapse against WSU, it was a true senior (EH), redshirt juniors effectively seniors (KO and DS), a redshirt senior (MH), and Kevin, who is reportedly a gym rat, very coachable, and has had two years in the system. Next year, the collective group executing defense will be more junior, not more senior.

I also don't understand how people just blow off 3 point defense as fantasy. Kenpom acknowledges that defense can make a difference in number of attempts, if not percentages. The only way WSU could beat us was with the 3, and that's what we left open. The 3 is the great equalizer in the tournament as others have noted above. It is what teams with less talent do to get by. It is what we will do next year. Does anyone believe that other teams won't put a man on Kevin no matter where he is on the floor? Of course they will.

Spot on!

btzag
03-24-2013, 03:04 PM
As many have said above, this was the year. We had a dominant front line that theoretically should have allowed our defenders to aggressively guard the 3 rather than sagging off. In terms of hopes that more time in the system for players will lead to success against the three, GU has been doing the same thing for years now, and no different results. Seniors have cycled through with no improvement, seniors taller than our current crop. Plus, during the collapse against WSU, it was a true senior (EH), redshirt juniors effectively seniors (KO and DS), a redshirt senior (MH), and Kevin, who is reportedly a gym rat, very coachable, and has had two years in the system. Next year, the collective group executing defense will be more junior, not more senior.

I also don't understand how people just blow off 3 point defense as fantasy. Kenpom acknowledges that defense can make a difference in number of attempts, if not percentages. The only way WSU could beat us was with the 3, and that's what we left open. The 3 is the great equalizer in the tournament as others have noted above. It is what teams with less talent do to get by. It is what we will do next year. Does anyone believe that other teams won't put a man on Kevin no matter where he is on the floor? Of course they will.

Read a lot of comments now on changing our defensive strategy and trying to eliminate 3-pt attempts or at least reduce them. I watch a ton of bball and can't think of a team that does this effectively. Can you name one of these teams? I can name a ton of teams like Syracuse, Mich st, Wisc, etc that play tough interior defense and force the opponent into lower percentage outside shots but can't name one that focuses exclusively on 3-pt D and opens up the inside.

Could just be that we don't land the lengthy athletic guards that can D up the perimeter as much as it is strategy.

By the way I've watched Indiana and Kansas today and both would have lost to WSU. Tons of wide open unguarded 3's in both games and the opponent just clanks them. I'm really watching these elite teams closely though to see how their superior defensive strategy works but I don't see anything other than the opponent just misses the shot.

baitcast
03-24-2013, 03:54 PM
Being number 1 was nice but I got a little uncomfortable with all the attention number 1 brings,we were a 6 point pick the favorite in the dance and the crowd was looking for blood,each 3 brought on a louder roar,they were looking for Zag Blood,little old Gonzaga and we had the bulls/eye on our back!!

Every time we lose a game some pg has a career nite and we are buried in 3,s year in and year out,this was not the reason I wrote this but it drives me crazy,defend the 3!

Give me a 20 25 win season make the dance and sneak up on unsuspecting teams,have a good time and sooner are later we will be there once again.
Rob

gonwick
03-24-2013, 04:38 PM
Someone linked to an article in the 3 point thread I think. It included teams like st Louis. Mich st was one of the pack the 3 point line teams. Syracuse was a "let them fly" team.

I think the lack of length of our guards as a major shortcoming in defense is a good point, regardless of what strategy is employed.

[/B][/B]
Read a lot of comments now on changing our defensive strategy and trying to eliminate 3-pt attempts or at least reduce them. I watch a ton of bball and can't think of a team that does this effectively. Can you name one of these teams? I can name a ton of teams like Syracuse, Mich st, Wisc, etc that play tough interior defense and force the opponent into lower percentage outside shots but can't name one that focuses exclusively on 3-pt D and opens up the inside.

Could just be that we don't land the lengthy athletic guards that can D up the perimeter as much as it is strategy.

By the way I've watched Indiana and Kansas today and both would have lost to WSU. Tons of wide open unguarded 3's in both games and the opponent just clanks them. I'm really watching these elite teams closely though to see how their superior defensive strategy works but I don't see anything other than the opponent just misses the shot.

maynard g krebs
03-24-2013, 04:42 PM
i just don't understand how bell's hs career has translated to what it has so far.

Coaching decision as to how to use him imo. And pretty hard to argue objectively against 31-3.

Actually, both Bell's fr and so year scoring avgs are within .3 of Stepp in scoring average, though BS assisted and rebounded more.

So there's a chance GB will get a chance to be the scorer he can be. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't.

Zags11
03-24-2013, 04:58 PM
I believe Stepp was Oregon POY?

maynard g krebs
03-24-2013, 05:46 PM
I believe Stepp was Oregon POY?

Yes, as was Bell in Wa.

Zags11
03-24-2013, 05:52 PM
Yes, as was Bell in Wa.

Huh? I love bell. LOL

bostonzagfan
03-24-2013, 07:09 PM
i would have preferred another loss if it meant KD was ready for the tournament.

MJ777
03-24-2013, 07:13 PM
i would have preferred another loss if it meant KD was ready for the tournament.

Or even 2 more and take a 4 or 5 Seed. The 1 Seed sure didn't help. Team played tight, coach coached tight. Zags need to be the hunter not the hunted it would seem.

jpwils
03-25-2013, 08:16 AM
Bell is a VERY athletic guard who can shoot the three -ball well and take it to the rack. He also is a great defender! Whoever said he was a " zero" is sadly off- base.

Coleman could make this very interesting next year if he can come in and get 12-15 points per nite @ the 3 spot.

Karnowski , in my opinion , is the key player for us next year. When I study McGary from Michigan, Karnowski needs to become this type of force...setting solid picks, getting rebounds at both ends of the floor and hustling ...high motor guy!!

I'm not sure if Dower can fill Harris' shoes but I do think he can average double figures and learn to be a better defensive presence.

Dranginis is another wild card for me- his confidence needs building up...
but I see a Grant Gibbs type of player who has a high B-ball IQ.

Barham will be back and can now become a Clint Steindl type of player for us on occasion.

Nunez is a question mark for me- not sure of his ceiling.

Wondering if Edwards can be a real asset next year as a backup big man or if he would do us more good as a redshirt.