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View Full Version : The strange in bounding turnover explained



gamagin
03-23-2013, 10:26 PM
http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2013/3/23/4140734/david-stockton-elias-harris-turnover-gif-gonzaga-vs-wichita-state

Hoopaholic
03-23-2013, 10:34 PM
Actually the technically correct call should have been traveling since des took 2 steps with ball before going out of bounds..but either way was a mental lapse by several players starting with Harris as he should not be touching the ball against the press and ds for court awareness......

bostonzagfan
03-23-2013, 11:10 PM
way to be alert stocks, just like the butler game

Oregonzagnut
03-24-2013, 03:30 AM
That play was all about discipline and concentration. I love Few and staff but they need to elevate beyond the first round after half a decade. :horse: Seriously. We can be 23-10 or 31-2 and our team will still be just as prepared for the post season. It matters not that we play a 16 seed or an 9 seed.

Something HAS to change and I hope Few will do some soul searching. he needs to stay at Gonzaga and yet still rise to the next level of post season elite play.

He is clearly not there yet.

However, the 2nd critical inbounds brain lapse of the season only added to our demise. Mark Few had nothing to do with that play.

Birddog
03-24-2013, 03:37 AM
way to be alert stocks, just like the butler game
That would never happen to a respected journalist like yourself now would it?

SunDevilGolfZag
03-24-2013, 02:18 PM
way to be alert stocks, just like the butler game

must be tough to be perfect; why the criticism?

Saxon_zag
03-24-2013, 02:22 PM
CAreful saying anything that could be taken in even a slightly bad way about DS. The self-proclaimed "true fans" hate that. Even more than I hate Mark Few giving DS so much playing time trading minutes with Jonny so his sons get in the aau game. That's the only way you justify having your 2 smallest guards out there getting 3's hit over their heads right?

MJ777
03-24-2013, 02:27 PM
CAreful saying anything that could be taken in even a slightly bad way about DS. The self-proclaimed "true fans" hate that. Even more than I hate Mark Few giving DS so much playing time trading minutes with Jonny so his sons get in the aau game. That's the only way you justify having your 2 smallest guards out there getting 3's hit over their heads right?

Bell was hurt but maybe Few should have played KD instead. But yours and other poster's rants are a bit absurd.

Saxon_zag
03-24-2013, 02:29 PM
Bell was hurt but maybe Few should have played KD instead. But yours and other poster's rants are a bit absurd.

Yeah Maybe KD, he's just bit bigger.

Sorry I just find it absurd how much pangos and stockton were on the court at the same time all year. We love trying that but never gave harris a shot at the 3 so we can actually get Dower the minutes he deserves. I don't understand Mark Few

MJ777
03-24-2013, 02:32 PM
Yeah Maybe KD, he's just bit bigger.

Sorry I just find it absurd how much pangos and stockton were on the court at the same time all year. We love trying that but never gave harris a shot at the 3 so we can actually get Dower the minutes he deserves. I don't understand Mark Few

Would of liked to have seen Harris, Dower and KO on the court at the same time also during the season. Oh well. Like Elias said it is what it is.

TheOtherGreatOne
03-24-2013, 03:07 PM
i'v said it before and i will say it again stockton hurts the team against the better teams when he plays more than 6 to 8 minutes against this type compitirion. he hustles but he is not strong enough he can't guard a 6 4 guard,he can't shoot so teams don't have to guard him,and he can't shoot free throws,so why does he play 25 minutes a game?

Saxon_zag
03-24-2013, 03:19 PM
Would of liked to have seen Harris, Dower and KO on the court at the same time also during the season. Oh well. Like Elias said it is what it is.

It would seem like that would have been playing to the teams biggest strength right?

Zags11
03-24-2013, 03:52 PM
GLE might have helped on the defensive end. Stockton Didnt do much on o last night. I doubt guy would of hit the 3 on GLE like DS. Oh well.

Zag4Hire
03-24-2013, 03:58 PM
GLE might have helped on the defensive end. Stockton Didnt do much on o last night. I doubt guy would of hit the 3 on GLE like DS. Oh well.

The Boards would have went nuclear option if GLE got on the court.

doug2
03-25-2013, 11:45 AM
The basketball program provides a lot of entertainment for its fans. Long waiting list for tickets. Good recruits. The coach raises big money for medical research. All good stuff.

But this is as good as it's going to get with this coach and maybe that's good enough for everyone. However, even though the program is better than many, it can't legitimately be in the same conversation with the nation's elite if it can't get past the first weekend in March more often.

Coach Few's record in the March Madness is good but not great. He's been invited to the dance each of his 14 years, which is a big accomplishment in itself. However, he's made it to the Sweet 16 only four times (2000, 2001, 2006 and 2009), meaning that about 70% of the time, his program doesn't survive the first weekend.

The cold, hard facts say the Zags rep. was made during the 1999 to 2001 run and we've been living on that ever since with only two additional trips to the Sweet 16 in the last 12 years.

Bottom line: To make the Sweet 16 a habit, not a rare treat, a new coach is needed. If you can't make it past the first weekend with this team, when can you?

roxdoc
03-25-2013, 12:05 PM
"To make the Sweet 16 a habit...."

Herein lies the rub. Some on the board are content to have the year in, year out 80% wins and a WCC Champ. Coach is “clean” coach and turns out upstanding young men who graduate, and thus is a real asset to GU. But that's pretty much his limit or as some say "ceiling". What you see is what you get and a few "5-star" recruits probably won't change that.

So thats the "elephant in the room".

Hoopaholic
03-25-2013, 01:05 PM
Please provide me with 10 names of coaches who have better than 35% success rate at reaching the sweet sixteen or higher in their coaching tenure during their first 15 years as a head coach?

Then of those ten how many were in a small school?


Numbers start to get very very small.

gamagin
03-25-2013, 01:14 PM
from the fifth smallest school EVER to make a number one designation ?

Enough ? Never. Remarkable if it all ended today ? Absolutely. Tired of trying to fix stupid over a topic that just.does.not.hold.water ? Why, yes, it is time to accept what is already in the record and history books. Be proud. And stop whining until we are making 80% returns on our investments, or enjoy hall of fame status in whatever we do in our lives. Because the target of this annual inquisition has his shoulder to the wheel. Year after year. imo

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/win-loss-pct-coach-career.html

Zageist
03-25-2013, 02:41 PM
oh boy...

doug2
03-25-2013, 02:53 PM
I'm curious how the Gonzaga Administration will answer the question "what do we want from the basketball program going forward?" Happy with the status quo? It's pretty good, actually. Lots of wins and a conference championship and a trip to the Dance all but guaranteed every year. Or do they want to "go for it" and become truly elite?

If the former choice is the answer, Coach Few is the answer. If it's the later, they'll need a new coach or new and improved coaching from the current coach.

I hold out hope for the latter option. I believe Coach Few has it in him to take the next step, but he'll have to grow and change. He'll have to become a better coach.

John Wooden's career is an example of what can happen. He took over the UCLA program in 1948. The school had experienced only a couple of winning seasons in the previous two decades. Coach Wooden got them winning right away, but it wasn't until the 1962 season - the 15th - that his program began to make consistent waves on the national stage.

I've read somewhere that after he'd been coaching at UCLA for almost as long as Coach Few has been the head coach at Gonzaga, he sat down and took a hard look at the program and how he coached it. He decided he wanted even more success for the program, so he spent an entire off season evaluating everything he did as a coach. He changed how he practiced, he came up with a zone press on defense and so on. He had some success in 62 and 63, then it all came together in 1964 with his first national championship. As everyone knows, he went on to win 10 championships in 12 years.

Coach Wooden's best known exploits on the hardwood all happened in the last 14 years of his 40 years coaching career. It took even him time to learn and perfect his craft.

Nobody can be John Wooden but his career suggests a pathway for our coach and the Zags to get better. I hope and believe Coach Few is up to the challenge. If he is, we're only at the beginning of The Gonzaga Run.

bostonzagfan
03-25-2013, 03:10 PM
That would never happen to a respected journalist like yourself now would it?


must be tough to be perfect; why the criticism?

how is asking a guy not to take an inbound pass and run out of bounds with it asking him to be perfect? and no, i never ran out of bounds with the ball after it had been inbounded to me in my playing career.

vandalzag
03-25-2013, 03:24 PM
how is asking a guy not to take an inbound pass and run out of bounds with it asking him to be perfect? and no, i never ran out of bounds with the ball after it had been inbounded to me in my playing career.

Just curious where did you playing career take place? College or Pro? Are there games archived on Youtube or other sites, if so post a link and let us know what your number is so we can learn something. Maybe we can forward to the coaches to use as a learning tool.

The play was boneheaded on both, if anything the fault is on EH since he is not to be passing it in against the press. That being said one play does not make a game.

Argentum
03-25-2013, 03:24 PM
Unfortunately Wooden's success beyond the 62-63 season inflection point you mentioned can't be fully ascribed to merely upgrading his coaching methodology. The players were a lot better from that point on too.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/12227/the-other-part-of-the-wooden-legacy

webspinnre
03-25-2013, 04:25 PM
Even more than I hate Mark Few giving DS so much playing time trading minutes with Jonny so his sons get in the aau game. That's the only way you justify having your 2 smallest guards out there getting 3's hit over their heads right?

I apparently missed this, but this is absolutely insane. You're suggesting that DS getting minutes is just so Few's sons can play more? Wow, I've seen cuckoo, but this takes it to a whole new level.

vandalzag
03-26-2013, 07:13 AM
Unfortunately Wooden's success beyond the 62-63 season inflection point you mentioned can't be fully ascribed to merely upgrading his coaching methodology. The players were a lot better from that point on too.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/12227/the-other-part-of-the-wooden-legacy

The skill of the players was in correlation to the depth of Sam Gilbert's pockets.

bartruff1
03-26-2013, 07:22 AM
I apparently missed this, but this is absolutely insane. You're suggesting that DS getting minutes is just so Few's sons can play more? Wow, I've seen cuckoo, but this takes it to a whole new level.

Yup...a new low...this one will be hard to beat...but....

Hoopaholic
03-26-2013, 08:22 AM
dont hold your breath bart.....there will be others that come out with stranger allegations....hopefully not but this board tends to breed the strange out from under a rock comment once in a while.......

Birddog
03-26-2013, 08:51 AM
Based on what I've seen on several different threads I think quite a few posters are getting their "talking points" from these guys.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GjafjNjru90/T085Kwgm6II/AAAAAAAAv6k/azAJZNm3RiY/s1600/fbcast.jpg

webspinnre
03-26-2013, 09:06 AM
Any news on the bigfoot's baby front? ;)

SLOZag
03-26-2013, 09:28 AM
The skill of the players was in correlation to the depth of Sam Gilbert's pockets.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/08/sports/la-sp-0609-wooden-gilbert-20100609

gamagin
03-26-2013, 10:38 AM
dont hold your breath bart.....there will be others that come out with stranger allegations....hopefully not but this board tends to breed the strange out from under a rock comment once in a while.......

I picked up on what turned out to be a hate campaign about the time DS became a walk on.

I really did not understand what Sax actually was complaining about with such missionary zeal until the amazing post he made on this thread just a few days ago -- some three years after he started or picked up and started running with this smear campaign.

So after several years, anyone interested can finally understand the genesis of all this devotion to hating & ragging on one Zag, his coach and their families.

It's personal.