PDA

View Full Version : Gottlieb trashing Zags



jazzdelmar
03-18-2013, 02:25 PM
I've been keeping quiet, probably to the relief of many, here but cannot anymore. Yesterday I taped all the NCAA shows as my wife dragged me to LA so she could do her annual marathon...3:37.

I have now watched them all. I will say the Zags are getting deserved respect from all but one talking head. Gottlieb, IMO, is not just offering an opinion he is trashing the Zags and seems to be getting great joy in doing so. In all honesty I believe he is getting close to be out of line and one of his producers should rally whisper such in his ear. He is angry about the Zags being a number one. Really furious.

Calmer minds here said this was just a shock jock scenario. Maybe so. Criticism is perfectly fine but in this case I think it is personal. I have no evidence of course. What we can do is boycott him, I suppose. As if he cares. Thanks for listening.

GoZags
03-18-2013, 02:28 PM
I've been keeping quiet, probably to the relief of many, here but cannot anymore. Yesterday I taped all the NCAA shows as my wife dragged me to LA so she could do her annual marathon...3:37.

I have now watched them all. I will say the Zags are getting deserved respect from all but one talking head. Gottlieb, IMO, is not just offering an opinion he is trashing the Zags and seems to be getting great joy in doing so. In all honesty I believe he is getting close to be out of line and one of his producers should rally whisper such in his ear. He is angry about the Zags being a number one. Really furious.

Calmer minds here said this was just a shock jock scenario. Maybe so. Criticism is perfectly fine but in this case I think it is personal. I have no evidence of course. What we can do is boycott him, I suppose. As if he cares. Thanks for listening.

I listened to his radio show today. He's much more mellow than yesterday. He says he likes the Zags - thinks they should have been one of the 8 teams considered for a 1 seed but didn't think they should have gotten it over the outright regular season ACC champ and the ACC tourney champ. But he was quite complimentary to Gonzaga's program.

Edited to add: This is here because it's Gottlieb's "take" on Gonzaga. The other "Gotlieb" thread was moved to General Basketball as it dealt with his college days transgressions.

jazzdelmar
03-18-2013, 02:35 PM
That may be, GZ, I defer to your judgment. But his fury is best seen when you watch several hours of CBS coverage and he just doesn't let the bone out of his mouth. By comparison, Bilas and Vitale are balanced.

cjm720
03-18-2013, 02:38 PM
I've been keeping quiet, probably to the relief of many, here but cannot anymore. Yesterday I taped all the NCAA shows as my wife dragged me to LA so she could do her annual marathon...3:37.

I have now watched them all. I will say the Zags are getting deserved respect from all but one talking head. Gottlieb, IMO, is not just offering an opinion he is trashing the Zags and seems to be getting great joy in doing so. In all honesty I believe he is getting close to be out of line and one of his producers should rally whisper such in his ear. He is angry about the Zags being a number one. Really furious.

Calmer minds here said this was just a shock jock scenario. Maybe so. Criticism is perfectly fine but in this case I think it is personal. I have no evidence of course. What we can do is boycott him, I suppose. As if he cares. Thanks for listening.

Bilas too...his head almost blew off having to explain himself.

Gottlieb is a tool and he's learned to make controversial statements for traffic.

Zageist
03-18-2013, 02:39 PM
yeah, I watched him yesterday too. I thought it odd that when it was pointed out that GU was undefeated against the Big 12, he said questioned the quality of the teams they played, but not when KU played those same teams in conference.

GoZags
03-18-2013, 02:40 PM
That may be, GZ, I defer to your judgment. But his fury is best seen when you watch several hours of CBS coverage and he just doesn't let the bone out of his mouth. By comparison, Bilas and Vitale are balanced.

Yeah -- I saw that yesterday -- that's why I had him on today as I was going from appointment to appointment.

NEC26
03-18-2013, 02:45 PM
I sometimes wonder if they pull names out of a hat and then fight for those teams or just choose certain people to take angles just to create some talk and get different view points out there.

Zag365
03-18-2013, 02:47 PM
Listening to Gottlieb, who I generally have no beef with, banter with the other commentators, my take was that he overstated the case against the Zags being a #1 (rather than making the case for Miami), got defensive when others pushed back, and then doubled-down. I don't take offense that he and others think Gonzaga is a #2, not a #1; but, don't understand why he's so petulant about it.

cjm720
03-18-2013, 02:50 PM
I sometimes wonder if they pull names out of a hat and then fight for those teams or just choose certain people to take angles just to create some talk and get different view points out there.

No doubt about it...debate drives viewership.

jazzdelmar
03-18-2013, 02:51 PM
Listening to Gottlieb, who I generally have no beef with, banter with the other commentators, my take was that he overstated the case against the Zags being a #1 (rather than making the case for Miami), got defensive when others pushed back, and then doubled-down. I don't take offense that he and others think Gonzaga is a #2, not a #1; but, don't understand why he's so petulant about it.

My pt exactly. Look he could says the Zags are a three seed for all I care. But Seth pissed him off and Greg was clearly pro Zags. Petulant is a great word. It's out of line and unprofessional, IMO.

CDC84
03-18-2013, 02:58 PM
Miami

8-2 RPI top 50

Bad losses: (73) Indiana State (96) Florida Gulf Coast (148) Ga Tech (148) Wake Forest (170)

Gonzaga

6-2 RPI top 50

Losses: (20) Butler (39) Illinois

What Doug doesn't understand is that Gonzaga got the one seed due to Miami's bad losses. The committee just couldn't ignore it. The killer was the Ga Tech loss at home. The bottom line is that the ACC wasn't all that great this year, and Miami didn't have to face Duke in the tournament title game. I think if they had beaten the Dukies in the ACC final, they might have the one seed over the Zags.

ZaginLaw
03-18-2013, 03:34 PM
Gottlieb got his lunch handed to him by the comittee chair on live TV when Doug ask why the Zags. The chair seem to be to smirk when he told Doug the Zags entire body of work was better than Miami, fully expecting him to explode on set.

The ironic thing is that of course it's who you lost too. That has rightly been the MO of pundits in prior years when explaining why the Zags should be seeded lower with losses to WCC foes.

I had to laugh when Bilas said, it's like the committee is saying it's not only your losses, but who you lost too. Yikes, do these guys forget what they say year to year?

DixieZag
03-18-2013, 03:43 PM
There was a whole other thread on Gottlieb on here earlier that got moved to the general Basketball discussion forum. Anyone really pissed at Doug should check that one out b/c it has some more in depth info on his background that might explain some of the bewildering animosity that he is spewing.

CdAZagFan
03-18-2013, 04:10 PM
Would just to love to see Zagnation boo Gottlieb in Salt Lake City to let him have it while he's broadcasting the game!

krozman
03-18-2013, 04:17 PM
Bilas said it several times, that THIS year was the year where losses (and not your overall win resume) determined the top lines this year.

ridgebackzag
03-18-2013, 04:18 PM
I'm pretty sure that often when there are big sporting events, such as the selection show, the perspectives are thought out ahead of time to give different opinions. That is probably what Gottlieb was doing, it had to be somebody (and convincing). Bilas from ESPN is the same way, and they are both usually fans of GU.

JPtheBeasta
03-18-2013, 04:19 PM
I'm going to start paying better attention, because every time he broke a team down he seemed to want to discuss their point guard. He was one, himself, if I recall. I wonder if he tends to disrespect the teams who rely more on their front court. Just an initial observation that I will be following over the next couple of weeks.

Good points made by all in this thread. I get his point that we haven't played any of the "elite" teams. But the "elite" teams have some head scratcher losses that we don't have. In a year when nobody could hold serve, GU did. I think the fact that everyone suffered similar fates this year makes it easier to discount these bad losses. All GU did was win. And keep winning. Impressively.

I liked Zag365's analysis. Sometimes the heart takes over the head, and Gottlieb tends to overstate things a lot. He now has to save face.

We all know that the team is good. The odds are that we will lose at some point, and at that time all of the naysayers will be out in force. I think Ken Pomeroy said it about as good as you can in this blog post (http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/a_night_of_gonzaga_basketball)about all of the GU hand wringing (courtesy of another poster on the boards, I just can't remember who right now).

Herp and Derp

Virginia Zags Fan
03-18-2013, 04:23 PM
I love i-heart radio. Allows this East Coaster to stay in touch with all things Western Washington biased. Anyway, today on KJR sports talk Seattle, they were going through their brackets. And it is a little popular to diss the Zags. They talked about what would be a disappointment for the Zags, etc. Said Zag fans are all whiny, etc.

Ok, so their guest is going through the West bracket and they trying to gain consensus on who is going to advance. Somehow they finally allow the guys might beat Pitt (might). Then if we do beat Wisconsin (hypothetically of course) how does the matchup with OSU work. Of course they saw OSU beat the Fuskies so that means OSU must be really good. Their line of reasoning went like this: Well who on the Zags would guard Deshaun Thomas? Would it be Harris or Hart? But then who would D. Thomas guard? Because he isn't really big enough to guard Harris. Then who would guard Olynk? Good question. So if Craft guards Pangos, how do they match up with GBJ? If GBJ hits some shots, could OSU hang with the Zags. And then it hit them. "If GU's guards hit shots, they could win it all. They could beat everyone!"

As Fusky fans, it was so hard for them to acknowledge their worst fear. Gonzaga might actually be good. Good enough to win it all. Now, I admit, this team could lose in the round of 32 and they could go all the way. But, it was really interesting to hear these guys finally come around to asking the right question. It is not how the Zags guard so and so, it is how everyone else matches up with a Harris-Olynk front-court while still respecting Gonzaga's back court.

Mid season, Dan Dickau said that Gonzaga will go as far as the Pangos, Bell, and Stockton take them. He was so right. If Kevin, Gary, and David can make other teams honor the outside shot, I firmly believe we have a good chance at winning it all. But, talk is cheap. In Division I Men's Basketball, champions are made on the court and not by the voters. We shall see soon enough how things shake out.

Zagnailler
03-18-2013, 04:23 PM
Would just to love to see Zagnation boo Gottlieb in Salt Lake City to let him have it while he's broadcasting the game!

His shtick is not worthy of our attention much less our breath.

GoZags
03-18-2013, 04:30 PM
Would just to love to see Zagnation boo Gottlieb in Salt Lake City to let him have it while he's broadcasting the game!

I don't see how this would be a good idea. At all. Kinda like booing the actor who plays a villian when you see him out in public. Sure Gotlieb was adamant with his opinions yesterday. But he's also been a longtime friend of this program and has been a big supporter of Coaches vs Cancer. He also said about a dozen times today that be likes this program. That they do all they can to get good games. He just didn't think they were 1'seed worthy this year. Not worth creating a classless incident over. At least that's my opinion.

TacomaZAG
03-18-2013, 04:50 PM
With respect to the Talking Heads and the ZAGS record against the "Elite" Teams this year (#1 & #2 seeds) or any year, I am still waiting for any of the Talking Heads to ask WHY hasn't Gonzaga played any of the "Elite" Teams??? I'll tell you why, it's because the so-called "Elite" Teams will never agree to a home/home series with the Zags, or even a neutral/neutral arrangement. Can you imagine the likes of Kansas, Indiana, Louisville, OSU, Miami, Duke, or Georgetown coming to the Kennel, the Spokane Arena, or even Key Arena???? NO WAY, NO HOW. The only reason MSU came to the Kennel, IMHO, is that Few and Izzo are friends and Jud Heathcote probably called Izzo and requested he do it.

Now, truth be told, the ZAGS played Duke at MSG (Duke's home away from home) a few years ago, but there was no reciprocating on Duke's part. Also, truth be told, the "Elite" teams don't need to risk the loss, especially on the road, as they get plenty of exposure and RPI boosts in conference.

So, it's a totally hollow argument. The ZAGS will never play these "Elite" teams because the ZAGS have become a big enough program to demand an equal arrangement, and the "Elites" will never agree to it. The only chance for a match-up with an "Elite" team would be in a pre-season tourney, and even there it is a long shot. The 2017 NIKE pre-season tourney in Portland to celebrate Phil Knight's 80th birthday will be a notable exception.

Go ZAGS

McZag
03-18-2013, 05:36 PM
There is a great lack of drama this year because barely 68 teams deserve to be here. So these "professionals" need to create story lines when they can - even trying to tear down a team that won 31 games. Weak fodder if you ask me.

Don't worry, it will all be over soon..

Reborn
03-18-2013, 06:10 PM
Jazz!I don't know if you've read any of my posts since the Selection Committee announced the brackets. My feelings were much like yours, about Both and Bilas. And alot of coaches on ESPN U I think. I got sick to my stomach. Now today it was that Jay Williams (I think thats his name). He said that He's predicting Pitt beats us. I heard someone laugh, and Williams said, Hey! I'm not the only one. Everyone is betting on Pitt. I turned the show off. I'm sick of ESPN.

I have not lost any sense of who GU is, and in fact I am more pumped up for the games this weekend and beyong more than any other year.

I don't like your idea of Booing HIM. Why should we stoop down to his depth. He is NOBODY in my book, a nobody trying to sound tough. Trying to sound like he knows something. I feel the same about Jay Bilas too, which is too bad because I always respected Jay. He lost my complete respect. Let's show the class of Gonzaga University, Jazz. That's who we represent. We are ZagNation. Please!!!! No booing. He's not even worth the attention.

Go Zags!!!

jazzdelmar
03-18-2013, 06:24 PM
[QUOTE=Reborn;894066]Jazz!I don't know if you've read any of my posts since the Selection Committee announced the brackets. My feelings were much like yours, about Both and Bilas. And alot of coaches on ESPN U I think. I got sick to my stomach. Now today it was that Jay Williams (I think thats his name). He said that He's predicting Pitt beats us. I heard someone laugh, and Williams said, Hey! I'm not the only one. Everyone is betting on Pitt. I turned the show off. I'm sick of ESPN.

I have not lost any sense of who GU is, and in fact I am more pumped up for the games this weekend and beyong more than any other year.

I don't like your idea of Booing HIM. Why should we stoop down to his depth. He is NOBODY in my book, a nobody trying to sound tough. Trying to sound like he knows something. I feel the same about Jay Bilas too, which is too bad because I always respected Jay. He lost my complete respect. Let's show the class of Gonzaga University, Jazz. That's who we represent. We are ZagNation. Please!!!! No booing. He's not even worth the attention.

Go Zags!!![/QUO



Reborn-It wasnt my suggestion to boo him at SLC. Mine was a simple media boycott, which you are doing it seems. As I said, if Gotts or anyone wants to knock the Zags and say they arent worth a one, thats fine. But the vitriol with which he excoriated the team all last night was out of line and unprofessional, IMO. Youre right, he's a nobody.

DixieZag
03-18-2013, 06:44 PM
I can't work up too much angst over Bilas.

If nothing else Bilas is consistent and professional about it. His criticisms are intellectual - not visceral. Bilas has also been a huge Few supporter and has been intellectually on the Zag side of things for many years. Besides, he at least has us against Ohio State in the elite eight.

I wouldn't get too "visceral" about Dougy if he weren't so damn angry about us, whatever it is that got under his skin, I wish he would have it looked at.

Anyway, this - like everything else, will be cured totally by winning.

Go Zags Beat Southern

jazzdelmar
03-18-2013, 06:49 PM
OTOH, thanks to Gotts and Bilas the Zags got a disproportionate amount of the conversation last night on both CBS and ESPN. Aided, of course, by the pro Z slants of Katz, Greenie and G. Anthony. Greg Gumbel took his annual oath of blubbered silence and thankfully we didnt hear from Len Elmore (who really hates all non BCSers) and Inarticulate Kellogg.

DixieZag
03-18-2013, 08:08 PM
OTOH, thanks to Gotts and Bilas the Zags got a disproportionate amount of the conversation last night on both CBS and ESPN. Aided, of course, by the pro Z slants of Katz, Greenie and G. Anthony. Greg Gumbel took his annual oath of blubbered silence and thankfully we didnt hear from Len Elmore (who really hates all non BCSers) and Inarticulate Kellogg.

Jazz - - I agree with a ton of what you write but it was the "inarticulate Kellog" who said some of the most poetic and insightful stuff about the Zags on the 30 minute special that CBS did about the program. He mentioned stuff that was unique and wonderful. . .