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View Full Version : Stats Suffer in Huge Wins



allanle43
02-24-2013, 03:10 PM
The trouble with these run away wins is that it drags down the scoring statistics for individuals such as Olynix, Pangos, Harris and others. When mostly the bench plays the second half, these guys numbers are not impressive nationally as other potential All Americans who play most of the minutes of their games, thusly scoring more points and rebounds. The last 5 minutes, Zags bench must have taken at least 20 shots and scored only once, creating a poor team percentage that was hoovering around 65% for most of the game. I know that winning is all that counts, however when it comes to seeding for the NCAA tournament, the greater the numbers the more voters will be impressed. Also the tabulating for All American status is diminished because there is little consideration for minutes played. Go Zags! See you in Vegas.

awberke
02-24-2013, 03:14 PM
You're overlooking the benefit of giving playing time to players that don't often get enough. Depth is a huge advantage.

Oregonzagnut
02-24-2013, 03:31 PM
I see very little negatives to dominating every game and clinching OUR conference title back.

It seems a negative for this team always points to "LESS of a good thing". Which means we are struggling to find faults. :)

Spreading the PT seems to help our bench become stronger and more confident within our system. We will need that in March. I imagine not one player will put individual stats over the teams stats and chance at a one seed.

Individually, even Bhaskar and Bakamus look like studs when they play on a 31-2 team going into the tournament!

I think we have more than a remote chance at being 31-2 on selection Sunday and maybe even being ranked #1 in the nation. Oly, Harris and Pangos could care less that their averages drop 4-5% due to complete WCC domination and getting our 2nd team up to elite speed.

Would Barham or Draino have developed so much if Few decided to keep our starters in longer? Also other teams do the same things too so it kinda is a wash. Those teams who rely on their starting 5 for 40 minutes will not go that far in March. IMO.

Ekrub
02-24-2013, 03:32 PM
Eh, I think points per 40 minutes and FG% are taken more seriously than ppg.

GoZags
02-24-2013, 03:33 PM
Zags are fine. They all understand the concept of playing as a team and for the team.

BTB
02-24-2013, 03:35 PM
Eh, I think points per 40 minutes and FG% are taken more seriously than ppg.

That's what I was thinking. That's why most analysts use per 40 minutes stats

ZagsBaby
02-24-2013, 03:36 PM
Eh, I think points per 40 minutes and FG% are taken more seriously than ppg.

No they aren't but I don't know why anybody cares about this... Team is playing awesome and is a serious threat for a final four. Who cares if Bell scores 2 points? We won by a zillion.

Ekrub
02-24-2013, 04:15 PM
Oladipo isn't putting up monster numbers but is getting looks for POY because 1) best player on a top 5 team 2) extremely efficient scorer 3) plays solid defense.

rijman
02-24-2013, 04:35 PM
I've been concerned in the blowout games when Kelly's PT is limited and so are his numbers. When the POY candidates are listed their per game stats are listed, not per minute. This doesn't mean the per minute stats aren't given highest consideration in the end, I hope they are, but they aren't being reported to the public in the analysis I've seen on tv. We definitely want the bench players to get PT to develop, but you walk a fine line when you have a player in the hunt for AA and POY, because the GU program benefits from having a player win a national award just as they benefit when their players make it in the NBA. Kelly's story helps us with future recruiting of big men and it's a better story if KO get's AA or POY honors, imo.

Bocco
02-24-2013, 05:00 PM
The trouble with these run away wins is that it drags down the scoring statistics for individuals such as Olynix, Pangos, Harris and others.


I've been concerned in the blowout games when Kelly's PT is limited and so are his numbers.......

hopefully neither Kelly or any of his teammates are concerned about their individual statistics, I suspect that teams composed of indiviuals who are worried about their stats, and whether or not they are an AA, POY usually don't go very far in the tournament

as a fan I would much rather see the team with a #1 seed, in the E8, FF orbetty yet winning it all, than Mark Few getting a COY, Kelly getting a POY or any other individual honor,

UberZagFan
02-24-2013, 05:02 PM
It's all about the W! What would everyone think if KO played down the stretch and tore an ACL in garbage time? And the benefits of spreading the PT far outweigh any negatives in individual stats.

FWIW, the committee does not consider individual stats for one second when determining seeding.

NumberCruncher
02-24-2013, 05:03 PM
I'm not concerned at all. POY award is not necessarily tied to ppg. It's not like Kelly is in the running for the ppg title.

It just seems like bad form to leave a starter in during blowouts to inflate his stats. Besides, what if he got hurt doing it?

ValencyLovesZagsInAtlanta
02-24-2013, 06:30 PM
Hi

"Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work." Vince Lombardi Packers

This is why Gonzaga is so dangerous this year. When reserves are in the game during a blow out and starters and every other player is joining arms in unison as we did against Santa Clara you have something VERY SPECIAL.

This type of chemistry does happen occasionally IMO and often it ends with trips to the promisedxo land.

Vxo

zagzilla
02-24-2013, 06:36 PM
Dumb thread IMO. You sound condescending complaining about stats in a blowout. Feeds the negative perception of some of the GU haters about us.

One thing you don't consider is reducing the chance of injury to starters in garbage time. Coaches do, however.

ZZ

EagleFuzz
02-24-2013, 07:10 PM
27-2 enough said....See you in Vegas.:cheers:

vparcher
02-24-2013, 07:18 PM
The trouble with these run away wins is that it drags down the scoring statistics for individuals such as Olynix, Pangos, Harris and others. When mostly the bench plays the second half, these guys numbers are not impressive nationally as other potential All Americans who play most of the minutes of their games, thusly scoring more points and rebounds. The last 5 minutes, Zags bench must have taken at least 20 shots and scored only once, creating a poor team percentage that was hoovering around 65% for most of the game. I know that winning is all that counts, however when it comes to seeding for the NCAA tournament, the greater the numbers the more voters will be impressed. Also the tabulating for All American status is diminished because there is little consideration for minutes played. Go Zags! See you in Vegas.

Must be a Law Student?

rijman
02-24-2013, 08:38 PM
hopefully neither Kelly or any of his teammates are concerned about their individual statistics, I suspect that teams composed of indiviuals who are worried about their stats, and whether or not they are an AA, POY usually don't go very far in the tournament

as a fan I would much rather see the team with a #1 seed, in the E8, FF orbetty yet winning it all, than Mark Few getting a COY, Kelly getting a POY or any other individual honor,
I'm sure neither Kelly or his teammates are concerned with their stats, it's all about the W. These are very competitive young men who have been working at their games night and day for many years with a burning desire to win, yet they have no concern for their personal stats or results. I'm sure Kelly would be just as happy as a backup with limited PT, just so the team wins, because he is so uninterested in his stats. Never mind that Kelly wants to play in the NBA and he has to prove himself at the college level or that Kelly reportedly almost left GU because he wasn't getting enough PT. I believe it's naive to think these young men pour their hearts and souls into their sport and at the end of the day are completely unconcerned with their results and stats. The W is the ultimate goal and I'm not suggesting it isn't for each and every player on the team. What I am suggesting is that personal results and stats are important to the players, especially those who hope to play at the next level.

I think the OP makes a good point that blow out games result in our starters playing less, that's a fact. If the WCC was stronger top to bottom some of our starters would play more. KO is averaging 25.4 minutes/game, Zeller is 28.6 min and Plumlee is 34.4 min, due in part to their stronger schedules and need to maximize the playing time of their best players. GU has the luxury of playing KO 20 min against USD and 18 against SCU in their recent meetings. By comparison KO played 33 minutes in the 2 prior games vs. USF and SMC.

Yes, there is a huge benefit to playing blowout games and getting more PT for the backups and yes it negatively affects the starters playing time and potentially their stats. Is this good or bad? If you are a player in the running for AA and POY, playing blowout games which limit your PT is not good. The problem isn't with the players or coaches, it's the weak opponents.

BTW- Ammo averaged 36.5 min his final season when he was co POY in 2005-2006. Of 29 wins that team won only one game by more than 17 points, so that likely increased Ammo's PT. FWIW- This seasons Zags have won 14 games by 20+ pts.