PDA

View Full Version : Hank, you're still the king!



kdoggy
08-07-2007, 08:00 PM
Bonds broke it.

Personally, I think Barry has bore a disproportionate amount of criticism for the modern (although not that recent)era of sports use of performance enhancing drugs. It still doesn't take away fromthe fact that he is one of best players ever.

former1dog
08-07-2007, 08:05 PM
It still doesn't take away fromthe fact that he is one of best players ever.

I heartily disagree.

His natural and phenomenal talent makes it even worse, IMO, that he turned to the juice. A stain on hard working, able bodied and clean athletes the world over and in the history of athletic competition.

I having nothing but disdain for cheaters, especially for ones who never really needed to cheat.

kdoggy
08-07-2007, 08:52 PM
is clean and Bonds is some sort of anomoly is absurd. It probably more dirty than clean generally speaking. Bonds is one of the best natural talents ever he has a tireless work ethic and devotion to the game (maybe fanatical devotion) with the additon of "the clear" has made him one of the best statiscal players ever.

Former, I get the disappointment though.

229SintoZag
08-07-2007, 10:01 PM
Since Bonds is just one of many cheaters, it's OK to cheat.

Because everybody does it.

Whatever. I will never regard him as the home run king.

As far as I am concerned, the true Kings are Maris and Hank Aaron.

Bocco
08-07-2007, 10:14 PM
Since Bonds is just one of many cheaters, it's OK to cheat.

Because everybody does it.

Whatever. I will never regard him as the home run king.

As far as I am concerned, the true Kings are Maris and Hank Aaron.

I agree with your assessment of the true home run kings. But, I would also include Ruth since he had the best home run per at bat average. Josh Gibson was probably as good as anyone, unfortunately we will never know how many he actually hit since he was in the Negro Leagues.

Bonds, Sosa McGuire are all tainted. Everyone else is doing it never justifies an action.

Zagpower
08-08-2007, 07:52 AM
What do you guys think about Gaylord Perry? He is one of the biggest admitted cheaters of all time. I even have a king-sized Vaseline Jar autographed by Mr. Perry. Any problems with him in the Hall of Fame?

kdoggy
08-08-2007, 09:03 AM
Thatís an interesting point, Zagpower. Where does one draw their line of righteous indignation? Do the Mariners get an asterix for their 116 win season because of a certain player. How about the entire NFL? I am not one to accept that weighing 360 comes from an extra helping at the training table. It just seems if people want to be so angry, they should just boycott sports entirely. And I know some folks that have.

Unfortunately, Performance enhancing drugs are part of sports and have been for a long time. And the higher the level, the more likely it is to be occuring. What is also unfortunate for the youth of this country is that steroids and the like are often perceived are magic pills that turn an average, lazy athlete, into something world class. In short, I think steroids are given too much credit.

Another reality is that, steroids aside, athletes are bigger, faster, stronger than in days past. The training and nutrition are miles from the days of Babe Ruth and even Hammering Hank. In Babes day, weight training was pretty much non-existent and in Hanks in was pretty rare. So, yeah in that sense the game was pure from the standpoint that you were often relying on raw athletic ability and talent.

23dpg
08-08-2007, 09:26 AM
Bonds broke it.

Personally, I think Barry has bore a disproportionate amount of criticism for the modern (although not that recent)era of sports use of performance enhancing drugs. It still doesn't take away fromthe fact that he is one of best players ever.

Kdoggy, I agree with your statement. Don't get me wrong, I hate Bonds and think he's a cheater and a jerk.

But he was a great player before he started juicing. I didn't like him back then either, but I admired his incredible talent.

But how come guys like Roger Clemens get a free ride? His stats and body physic mirror Bonds. He was thought to be done in his mid to late 30s, then comes back bigger and better than ever. I would bet my paycheck that both juiced.

HillBillyZag
08-08-2007, 03:44 PM
McGuire, Sousa, Bonds,Canseco,Giambi,Clemens, and any other player that is proven to have used performance altering drugs or steroids should given an asterisk after any records that they hold or will hold. Look at these guys bodies now and earlier in their careers. Sousa & Bonds were built along the lines of Aaron & Griffey Jr. Mac was a big boy, but certainly not a no-neck as he was when he set the record. There have always been big, powerful men in MLB, The Babe,Johnny Mize of the NY Giants, Ted Klezewski of the Reds, Hank Sauer of the Cubbies,Harmon Killibrew of the Twins,Jim Thome of the Indians and White Sox,Moose Skowron of the Yankees and others. These guys were some of the most powerful men to ever pick up the lumber, some of their shots are marked in various parks for their distance. But if you campare their appearance with the puffy faces, enlarged necks and sculpted features of the juicers, one would have to be nieve not see the difference. and as far as other cheating, to compare Gaylord Perry, Nolan Ryan, Dizzy Dean and other hurlers who alledgedly wet or scuffed athe ball is not right either as at one time the "spitter"was a legal pitch and fingernails, rosin and other foreign objects were used to give the pitcher an edge. These actions took place in "plain sight" right under the umpires noses and this old fan can tell you that the umps checked ole Gaylord and others from head to foot several times a game and mostly came up empty.In addition think about this, the pitching mound has been lowered, a pitcher can no longer pitch inside and protect the plate and they have to stand there and watch these so called stars in this era pose for minutes to admire their work before hot dogging it slowly around the bases. I guarantee you if they pulled that bush league stuff against the likes of The Deans, Gibson,Feller, Garcia, Ford and other great pichers the next time up they would get a little "chin music" as ole Dizz used to say. Hitters have been give a terrific advantage and it would seem to this fan that juicing on top of the rule changes is just adding insult to injury. The other actions are part of the game of baseball, taking steroids is just CHEATING!!

ZagSlug
08-09-2007, 06:39 AM
They became a staple in the training room after WWII, even Ralph Kiner admits to using them. Now that there is testing one of the most popular foods in the pregame spread is chocolate covered coffee beans.

I think this will be looked upon as the steroids era just as their was a dead ball era and an era with no black players. 20 years from now it will probably just blend in as another period in which players tried to get a jump on, or keep up with, their competition.

kitzbuel
08-09-2007, 07:25 AM
Kdoggy, I agree with your statement. Don't get me wrong, I hate Bonds and think he's a cheater and a jerk.

But he was a great player before he started juicing. I didn't like him back then either, but I admired his incredible talent.

But how come guys like Roger Clemens get a free ride? His stats and body physic mirror Bonds. He was thought to be done in his mid to late 30s, then comes back bigger and better than ever. I would bet my paycheck that both juiced.

How much of the dislike for Bonds emanates from his attitude he has displayed that seems to put him first rather than the game or his teammates? I think his relationship with the game and the fans has as much to do with his public perception as his purported cheating.

Lance Armstrong has been under as much scrutiny and attack as Bonds, but he has handled public perceptions much better and the public is on his side.