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zagamatic
01-26-2013, 10:59 AM
Officiating has drawn a lot of attention lately. Not just on this board, but nationally. (And yes, a lot from myself )
My question for my fellow basketball fans is this, what changes would you make to the rulebook? What are the rules you hate? The rules you'd like to see experimented with? Rules to be emphasized?
Personally, I hate that good defense is penalized by allowing inbounds passes to go into the backcourt.
I'd like to see how eliminating the 3 second rule would change things. It was a good equalizing rule for teams who were/are outsized, but with today's athletes I just don't see the advantage.
And the rule I'd like to see emphasized is illegal screens. IMO, having to fight through illegal screens is what wears down players the most and causes way too many injuries.
What are your thoughts folks?

rennis
01-26-2013, 11:13 AM
Block/Charge call. Call it like they do it in the NBA. IE, rarely.


(that said, I know GU is well above average when it comes to drawing charges...)

bigblahla
01-26-2013, 11:23 AM
It would be nice if they actually used the rule book first before eliminating any rules.

Basketball is not the form of rugby currently being played.

It is a foul if you touch an offensive player with your hand anywhere else except on his hand when it's on the ball.

Pushing, shoving, grabbing, all fouls.

Mouthpiece's signature elbow while driving, it's a foul.

I posted the foul rules in a thread here just the other day and was humorously amused at OZN's comment about it sounds like you can't touch the opposing player at all. Yeah that's how the game used to be played before the NBA style took over.

Basketball is an offensive game where defense is played with your feet and body positioning unless you are attempting to block a shot.

The game has evolved to the subjective mindset of the three zebras in charge there is no continuity as to how games are called from game to game.

Sad state of affairs.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

rijman
01-26-2013, 11:30 AM
My dad, GU class of 58', had a disdain for basketball refs until the day he died, but the stories he used to tell about how GU got screwed by the homer refs back in the day was far worse than what we see today. Back then most games weren't televised and the refs were not scrutinized nearly as much, so they could get away with calls not possible today. My dad talked of phantom calls with no contact or being on the road in a hostile environment and have the team foul out all but 4 players while the other team fouled out none. One game was so lopsided in the calls, which cost GU a win, my dad said the GU President refused to meet and shake hands with the oppositions Jesuit President at the end of the game because he was so upset, which was unheard of. As much as people complain about the reffing these days, I too have filed my complaints in the GU forum, it reportedly was far worse back in the day.

Regarding rules changes, not allowing the ball into the backcourt on an inbounds pass would certainly make things more interesting, I would expect a lot more turnovers. I'm not sure I like that because it benefits the defense and what if the inbounds pass was the result of a kicked ball?

Zag79
01-26-2013, 11:33 AM
It would be nice if they actually used the rule book first before eliminating any rules.

Basketball is not the form of rugby currently being played.

It is a foul if you touch an offensive player with your hand anywhere else except on his hand when it's on the ball.

Pushing, shoving, grabbing, all fouls.

Mouthpiece's signature elbow while driving, it's a foul.

I posted the foul rules in a thread here just the other day and was humorously amused at OZN's comment about it sounds like you can't touch the opposing player at all. Yeah that's how the game used to be played before the NBA style took over.

Basketball is an offensive game where defense is played with you feet and body positioning unless you are attempting to block a shot.

The game has evolved to the subjective mindset of the three zebras in charge there is no continuity as to how games are called from game to game.

Sad state of affairs.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

An opinion I totally agree with. I'm ok with physical basketball, sometimes I enjoy it more than a ticky tack called game to be honest. That being said, hoops is still a game of flow and allowing too much grabbing, holding, etc can really junk it up.

A perfect example of officiating not doing its job is any game Aaron Craft plays in. Say what you want... the kid is tough, scrappy, smart, just doing what he can get away with, and so on. He's essentially allowed to manhandle an opponent to the point of making it look like he's tackling a guy up and down the floor.

Making the right calls is key to a good game, even more important is consistency. Call it the same on both ends, all game. Officiating in any sport affects the game and it's outcome, but to me more so in basketball than any other sport. Especially considering you can't "foul out" in anything else.

ZagsBaby
01-26-2013, 11:42 AM
It would be nice if they actually used the rule book first before eliminating any rules.

Basketball is not the form of rugby currently being played.

It is a foul if you touch an offensive player with your hand anywhere else except on his hand when it's on the ball.

Pushing, shoving, grabbing, all fouls.

Mouthpiece's signature elbow while driving, it's a foul.

I posted the foul rules in a thread here just the other day and was humorously amused at OZN's comment about it sounds like you can't touch the opposing player at all. Yeah that's how the game used to be played before the NBA style took over.

Basketball is an offensive game where defense is played with you feet and body positioning unless you are attempting to block a shot.

The game has evolved to the subjective mindset of the three zebras in charge there is no continuity as to how games are called from game to game.

Sad state of affairs.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

Disagree.

You'd make the game last another half hour and every single tic tac foul we complain about now would be called every time. Might as well go watch baseball.

MickMick
01-26-2013, 11:56 AM
I would like to see the game played in football uniforms on field turf.

Oregonzagnut
01-26-2013, 12:07 PM
I posted the foul rules in a thread here just the other day and was humorously amused at OZN's comment about it sounds like you can't touch the opposing player at all. Yeah that's how the game used to be played before the NBA style took over.

The opposing player IMO is also the off the ball player. The literal interpretation is almost impossible in the course of any normal offensive set. A hand is always on the opposing player so you can see the floor know when your man moves away. Contact has always been in the game so I am glad I humored you with my amusing ignorance. :lmao:

Yes there is more contact now, and it is far more physical and the allowable contact has increased by the year, but I don't think it implies the game today is one dimensional and more like rugby than hoops. Todays players are not a bunch of goons who couldn't understand a complex playbook.

I would not want to go to "zero tolerance" of any contact even if those are the literal interpretation of the rules. The refs would loveit and the game would be played at the foul line.

tenniszag
01-26-2013, 12:20 PM
[QUOTE]Making the right calls is key to a good game, even more important is consistency. Call it the same on both ends, all game. Officiating in any sport affects the game and it's outcome, but to me more so in basketball than any other sport. Especially considering you can't "foul out" in anything else./QUOTE]

I completely agree. Just be consistent throughout the game. If you are going to let them play physical, let them play the whole game. If you are going to call a tight game, call it tight the whole game including any last second plays. The consistency, especially with WCC refs, is atrocious.

I also cannot stand make up calls. Two wrongs don't make a right. If a ref makes a bad call and hears it from the coach, all the team needs to do on the next possession is take the ball to the hope and create any kind of contact. They almost always get the call.

I understand the game moves very fast and it's a tough job, but the WCC refs are some of the worst in the country when it comes to consistency and can definitely be upgraded.

ZagSports
01-26-2013, 12:34 PM
When bringing the ball up you have 10 secs period (so if you call a timeout after 8 secs because of good defense, you only have 2 secs left to cross half court).

I'd like to see only 3 media timeouts (15,10,5) but we all know that will never happen.

Jazzgirl_127
01-26-2013, 01:03 PM
I think there needs to be some clarification on the over the back call. In particular I don't think it's valid to call a player for over the back when they are airborne and a defender who is still planted on the ground boxes them out. Furthermore, it's dangerous to take your opponent's legs out from under them while they're in the air and a player shouldn't be rewarded for doing it. It seems like it happens fairly often, off the top of my head, in the Butler game, I think it was Harris who jumped straight up for a rebound, a Butler player who was still standing on the ground fell backward into his legs and "over the back" was called against the Zags when the Butler player initiated the contact.

100% agree with the refs needing to be consistent for both teams and throughout the game.

tobizag
01-26-2013, 04:16 PM
Disagree.

You'd make the game last another half hour and every single tic tac foul we complain about now would be called every time. Might as well go watch baseball.

in the near term that's probably a likely outcome. eventually coaches and teams would adjust and play differently.

zagco
01-26-2013, 05:20 PM
The foul call has gone the way of the horse and buggy, ever since the days of Goergetown and 80's Big East basketball. It's thuggery now

ZagsBaby
01-26-2013, 06:08 PM
in the near term that's probably a likely outcome. eventually coaches and teams would adjust and play differently.

If you can't handle the physicality of basketball, maybe it's time to stick to golf. Just sayin

GeorgiaZagFan
01-26-2013, 07:40 PM
No foul should be called if the ball is clearly gone from the shooter's hand when contact is made ....after watching the big's bang one anther with enough force to leave bruises, or guards play rough physical defense ...I HATE to see a 3-point shooter get 3 FT's because the defender "brushed" them well after the shot was gone ....the contact made NO difference!!!!

GeorgiaZagFan
01-26-2013, 07:52 PM
basketball is the MOST difficult game to ref ..I have done some in the past and I believe the best refs follow this simple rule.....did the offender gain a clear advantage by causing the foul? If so, blow the whistle. If not, let them play on.
In a game earlier this year I remember a play where the other team "clanked" a 3-point shot which resulted in a long rebound. Hart was battling underneath and was called for a foul...while the ball was 30 feet away!!! THAT is bad reffing and will result in a ton of fouls that have nothing to do with the game being played. The play at Butler the other night? Clear advantage for the Butler player after he pushed Olynyk, should have been a foul.....

SWZag
01-26-2013, 10:02 PM
It would be nice if they actually used the rule book first before eliminating any rules.

Basketball is not the form of rugby currently being played.

It is a foul if you touch an offensive player with your hand anywhere else except on his hand when it's on the ball.

Pushing, shoving, grabbing, all fouls.

Mouthpiece's signature elbow while driving, it's a foul.

I posted the foul rules in a thread here just the other day and was humorously amused at OZN's comment about it sounds like you can't touch the opposing player at all. Yeah that's how the game used to be played before the NBA style took over.

Basketball is an offensive game where defense is played with your feet and body positioning unless you are attempting to block a shot.

The game has evolved to the subjective mindset of the three zebras in charge there is no continuity as to how games are called from game to game.

Sad state of affairs.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

Good post and this is the way it used to be played.

One thing they were talking about on the broadcast the other day, that I didn't know, is that the NBA reviews every game in its entirety to look for flopping. I don't know if that's something I would like to see in college, but it would help prevent some floppage. I don't even watch the NBA because it's so far from the original game and players get away with nearly every rule ever written.

maynard g krebs
01-26-2013, 11:02 PM
It would be nice if they actually used the rule book first before eliminating any rules.

Basketball is not the form of rugby currently being played.

It is a foul if you touch an offensive player with your hand anywhere else except on his hand when it's on the ball.

Pushing, shoving, grabbing, all fouls.

Mouthpiece's signature elbow while driving, it's a foul.

I posted the foul rules in a thread here just the other day and was humorously amused at OZN's comment about it sounds like you can't touch the opposing player at all. Yeah that's how the game used to be played before the NBA style took over.

Basketball is an offensive game where defense is played with your feet and body positioning unless you are attempting to block a shot.

The game has evolved to the subjective mindset of the three zebras in charge there is no continuity as to how games are called from game to game.

Sad state of affairs.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

Bravo. Only exception to no contact when I was a kid (60's-70's) is boxing out when you have inside position. In pickup games, it was the early 90' when I remember the young kids started to put a hand on the body of the offensive player when guarding. I remember slapping hands away and saying "get your f#%@ing hand off me, and they're like "what?". Watching the NBA, of course. The game has devolved from its golden age imo too.

Big man guru Pete Newell used to talk about how the rule was "daylight in the post"; when an offensive player had established position, the defender wasn't allowed to make contact and push him off the block. By the same token, an offensive post player wasn't allowed to lower his shoulder and knock the defender back like a football blocker.

Nothing left to do, I guess, but shake our fists and yell at the kids to get off our lawn.

gueastcoast
01-27-2013, 07:42 AM
I'd like to see only 3 media timeouts (15,10,5) but we all know that will never happen.

Not really about fouls or violations, but agree.

Probably one of the worst experiences in watching a televised game (ESPN) that runs long before a GU game is when a team calls a full timeout at the same time as a scheduled media timeout, and at the next dead ball you then get the media timeout. No need to double up, it kills the flow and leads to games running long.

A little OT but Bill Walton (whose comments I often find execrable) frequently talks about needless delays in the game due to long monitor reviews, slow floor wiping during dead balls, etc. etc. He is spot on, and not just when the ensuing GU telecast is delayed.

NotoriousZ
01-27-2013, 08:02 AM
I wish they would just call the fouls that they see, and not anticipate.

*Side note* Did Dower's shot at the end of the 1st half end up counting? The replay showed that the ball was still in his hands at 0 seconds. The refs looked at the monitor and the shot still counted I thought they said. Not that this was a close game, but how could you miss that one?

Hoopaholic
01-27-2013, 08:35 AM
Classic Maynard..I was rolling laughing on the slapping of the hand and following comment...I think we must have played in the same pickup league or timeframe because boxing out was only time contact was allwed

bigblahla
01-27-2013, 09:35 AM
Contact has always been in the game.

Only limited contact is allowed, defenders can use their chest facing the offensive player their back on boxing out but have no contact with their hand on the offensive player other than what I've stated. Not picking on you OZN but your interpretation of how the game is called is a great analogy of the issue at hand, everybody has an idea of how it should be called instead of following the rules.

Call it by the book, live with the pain of many disqualifications until coaches and teams adjust and then....you have conformity and continuity as to how the game is called. Everybody knows the rules, no ifs ands or buts.

Go!! Zags!!!

tobizag
01-27-2013, 11:42 AM
If you can't handle the physicality of basketball, maybe it's time to stick to golf. Just sayin

thanks for being constructive