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View Full Version : Last play of the first half at Butler.



23dpg
01-20-2013, 10:26 PM
Did anyone else notice this?

0:52 Sam Dower made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Guy Landry Edi.

What is significant about that stat line? That was Gonzaga's last possession of the first half. Butler stood around and let the clock run for 10-12 seconds before inbounding the ball, then let it roll for a few seconds before picking it up with 34 seconds left in the half.

My thoughts are:

1. Extremely smart for the Butler players to do this.
2. The ref should have not let it happen.
3. The clock should stop after made baskets in the last minute of the first half, like it does in the second half.

Oh well, one extra possession probably wouldn't mean much on Saturday. :doh::doh::doh::doh:

thegloriousgoateeofKP
01-21-2013, 12:45 AM
Yes! So glad you mentioned this. I was upset at first, but then realized it was a brilliant play. I remembered there being less time left after Dower made the shot...closer to :45 or so. But either way, he waited 4 seconds to inbound, and then the ball rolled up the court for another 5-8 seconds, all with no time coming off the shot clock. Brilliant, brilliant play. I agree 100% that the clock should stop after baskets at the end of BOTH halves. But why should the refs not have allowed this one?

Zagdawg
01-21-2013, 10:00 AM
It bugs me that we allow the other team to roll the ball down the court and not force them to start the clock immediately on the inbounds-- that 5-8 seconds would be nice to have to close out the half---oh for one more possession.

This is something that we do frequently-- it usually does not matter--but in this case one more possession might have made the difference.

Lots of learning expereinces in that game.

sittingon50
01-21-2013, 10:23 AM
What I've never understood is why the defense doesn't contest it. Go up & make 'em pick it up early. Even if they get by you they're gonna' pull it out anyway.

:confused:

SteelZag
01-21-2013, 10:29 AM
It bugs me that we allow the other team to roll the ball down the court and not force them to start the clock immediately on the inbounds-- that 5-8 seconds would be nice to have to close out the half---oh for one more possession.

This is something that we do frequently-- it usually does not matter--but in this case one more possession might have made the difference.

Lots of learning expereinces in that game.

Going back to the 2009-2010 season Butler has played in 26 games decided by 2 points or less and OT games. Gonzaga has played in twelve. Butler's record is 15-11 and GU's record is 5-7.

I'm not sure if I could be a Butler fan with all their close wins.

23dpg
01-21-2013, 10:29 AM
Yes! So glad you mentioned this. I was upset at first, but then realized it was a brilliant play. I remembered there being less time left after Dower made the shot...closer to :45 or so. But either way, he waited 4 seconds to inbound, and then the ball rolled up the court for another 5-8 seconds, all with no time coming off the shot clock. Brilliant, brilliant play. I agree 100% that the clock should stop after baskets at the end of BOTH halves. But why should the refs not have allowed this one?


You only have 5 seconds to inbound the ball. When I watched it live, I thought the ball went through at roughly 50 seconds left in the half. That means they wasted 16 seconds before they took possession. They did it intentionally, but I give them credit for it. Usually the refs will blow the whistle and stop the clock if too much time expires.

Again, not putting the burden on Butler, they took what was given....really a very heads up play on their part.
There should be a rule change so this doesn't happen. It's not in the spirit of the rule.

ZagSports
01-21-2013, 10:34 AM
Clock only stops after final minute of second half, and any OT played... and I understand the question of picking up defensively sooner, you just don't want to risk picking up a stupid foul.

23dpg
01-21-2013, 11:27 AM
I know the rule. I just think it should be changed.

Rolling the ball up court isn't the issue. That only took 3 seconds. It was the 10+ seconds it took to inbound the ball that was the issue.

gamagin
01-21-2013, 11:33 AM
I know the rule. I just think it should be changed.

Rolling the ball up court isn't the issue. That only took 3 seconds. It was the 10+ seconds it took to inbound the ball that was the issue.

I would love to hear the official explanation.

I was thinking in a pass in football, the clock starts at the snap -- not when it is caught. Perhaps it should also start upon release in the out of bounds play, allowing for up to five seconds for that.

The ball is definitely in play upon release.

ZagSports
01-21-2013, 01:59 PM
The rule use to be that way until the early 90's and then changed I believe to help try and speed the game up in the early 2000's?? Don't quote me on that though.

I feel men and women should swap shot clock times
30 for the men, 35 for the women

UberZagFan
01-21-2013, 03:03 PM
Uber noticed this too and commented about it at the time.

For whatever reason, college BB coaches are very poor at clock/possession management at the end of halves--first and second. Very rare to see the type of clock/possession management that you do in football. Obviously, in football the possessions (and possible points gained from an extra possession) are more rare--just less of them and points in general are more rare, so maybe it is natural to value the possessions more. But every good football coach knows exactly how many timeouts, total game clock, delay of game clock, 2 minute TO, etc. add up to getting the ball back.

BB coaches need to do better at this. Anytime a shot goes down with 50 seconds left in the half, it should be imperative to force the other team to get that ball in and touch it, so you get that possession. Quite frankly, the failure of GU to get the shot clock started at the 45 second mark is equal to a turnover.

The same goes for 2 for 1s. It's better to take a below average shot (say around 30%) with 50 seconds on the clock even if 25 is left on the shot clock than to work for a high percentage shot (usually 50% at best) and gain the last shot of the half than to work the game clock under 40 and lose the last possession.

p.s. the fear of a foul is or should be non-existent...as a defender you just need to be in the vicinity of a player for him to pick up the ball and start the clock.

Zagdawg
01-21-2013, 03:34 PM
If we are at the other end guarding them-- do they get a 5 second violation on the inbounds-- if they mess around for 10 seconds (tie their shoe etc).