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jazzdelmar
01-15-2013, 04:43 PM
Gonzaga Bulldogs (No. 8 AP, No. 11 BPI)
Area of concern: 3-point defense
At first glance, the Zags appear to do a decent job against long-range shooters. Opponents shoot 33.1 percent from deep against them, which is just about average for Division I. But here's the thing: Gonzaga is just inviting top-shooting teams to go off. Illinois went 11-for-26 from 3-point range to hand Gonzaga its lone loss, and someone else will exploit that same weakness. Why? Gonzaga allows opponents to take an absurd 37.9 percent of their shots from deep. That's 309th in the country and a big reason the Bulldogs are only 72nd in defensive efficiency. It's pretty simple: If you can't chase your opponent off the arc, you're susceptible to a tourney upset.

Upset alert: A Butler win Saturday night wouldn't be much of an upset, but the guys from Indy are built to hurt the Zags. San Francisco (39.9 percent), Loyola Marymount (36.8 percent) and San Diego (37 percent) all have a shooter's chance against Gonzaga; Saint Mary's has more than that.

ZagLawGrad
01-15-2013, 04:47 PM
Zags have a propensity to bring out the best in an opponent's 3 pt. shooting.

Or, at least it sure seems that way. :enraged:

HenneZag
01-15-2013, 05:06 PM
GU has always been a team that allows opponents to get looks from the 3, some capitalize (Illinois) and some don't. Definately a concern moving forward. I really don't get why we haven't corrected this, the coaches obviously have to realize this is a problem.

GU allows teams to take 37.9 % of their shots from 3...wow! ranking us @
309th in the country, staggering to me.

Well we are obviously doing alot of things right, hopefully we can tighten this up though, you know some teams are licking there chops...as mentioned, a number of teams could hurt us here, I don't like those stats.

ZagsBaby
01-15-2013, 05:18 PM
GU allows teams to take 37.9 % of their shots from 3...wow! ranking us @
309th in the country, staggering to me.

.

Well that IS the lowest percentage shot, so I'm not sure it's not somewhat by design.

hondo
01-15-2013, 05:21 PM
Most of the time it's pick your poison and picking that poison has led to a near 80% winning percentage. Not bad.

zag67
01-15-2013, 05:25 PM
Also I think that there is a high number of threes because they are behind and that gives them a chance to get back in the game

bostonzagfan
01-15-2013, 05:32 PM
still though, teams wouldn't shoot close to 40% of their shots beyond the arc if most were tightly contested.

GU69
01-15-2013, 05:33 PM
Gonzaga allows opponents to take an absurd 37.9 percent of their shots from deep.

Allows? Can't it also be said that:
"Gonzaga forces opponents to take an absurd 37.9 percent of their shots from deep because Gonzaga takes away the inside."

Would it be better to let other teams take closer shots?

Obviously the ideal would be to not allow any shots at all, but even if a team is held to no shots through the possession timer, they'll toss up something when the clock runs down.

Getting teams to shoot threes is fine with me. However, they need to be contested, rushed threes.

Rangerzag
01-15-2013, 06:11 PM
Gonzaga Bulldogs (No. 8 AP, No. 11 BPI)
Area of concern: 3-point defense
At first glance, the Zags appear to do a decent job against long-range shooters. Opponents shoot 33.1 percent from deep against them, which is just about average for Division I. But here's the thing: Gonzaga is just inviting top-shooting teams to go off. Illinois went 11-for-26 from 3-point range to hand Gonzaga its lone loss, and someone else will exploit that same weakness. Why? Gonzaga allows opponents to take an absurd 37.9 percent of their shots from deep. That's 309th in the country and a big reason the Bulldogs are only 72nd in defensive efficiency. It's pretty simple: If you can't chase your opponent off the arc, you're susceptible to a tourney upset.

Upset alert: A Butler win Saturday night wouldn't be much of an upset, but the guys from Indy are built to hurt the Zags. San Francisco (39.9 percent), Loyola Marymount (36.8 percent) and San Diego (37 percent) all have a shooter's chance against Gonzaga; Saint Mary's has more than that.

:link:


Or at least some clues as to where you found this, please.

AK457
01-15-2013, 06:35 PM
yeah i don't agree with the wording. "allows" could be read as "forces." any team at any time can shoot threes. good defense makes that their only option. and it's always going to be a lagging, i.e., not predictive, statistic that teams we lose to tend to have shot a good 3 point percentage.

kclubfounder
01-15-2013, 06:38 PM
Allows? Can't it also be said that:
"Gonzaga forces opponents to take an absurd 37.9 percent of their shots from deep because Gonzaga takes away the inside."

Would it be better to let other teams take closer shots?

Obviously the ideal would be to not allow any shots at all, but even if a team is held to no shots through the possession timer, they'll toss up something when the clock runs down.

Getting teams to shoot threes is fine with me. However, they need to be contested, rushed threes.

:agreed:

WallaWallaZag
01-15-2013, 07:04 PM
yeah i don't agree with the wording. "allows" could be read as "forces." any team at any time can shoot threes. good defense makes that their only option. and it's always going to be a lagging, i.e., not predictive, statistic that teams we lose to tend to have shot a good 3 point percentage.

allows or forces...by design or not...the key point lost in all of this is that gonzaga is not in the nba where the law of averages are likely to play out over the course of a best of seven series. college basketball is one and done, which means it only takes one hot half or one hot shooter to end your season. the flip side of this is that a team giving up a lot of threes should hardly ever be giving up dribble penetration...unfortunately, that also doesn't appear to be the case with the zag perimeter defense.

Oregonzagnut
01-15-2013, 07:11 PM
allows or forces...by design or not...the key point lost in all of this is that gonzaga is not in the nba where the law of averages are likely to play out over the course of a best of seven series. college basketball is one and done, which means it only takes one hot half or one hot shooter to end your season. the flip side of this is that a team giving up a lot of threes should hardly ever be giving up dribble penetration...unfortunately, that also doesn't appear to be the case with the zag perimeter defense.

It seems we have an elite offense with a tweener defense. We really miss that 3 spot on D and rebounding too. We are needy for Edi.

The long rebounds off missed 3 pt clankers seem to favor an offensive rebound too. Esp, if they are committed to rebounding. What bothers me after any shot is when they start running back up the court before the shot even starts coming down.

bartruff1
01-15-2013, 07:12 PM
Allows? Can't it also be said that:
"Gonzaga forces opponents to take an absurd 37.9 percent of their shots from deep because Gonzaga takes away the inside."

Would it be better to let other teams take closer shots?

Obviously the ideal would be to not allow any shots at all, but even if a team is held to no shots through the possession timer, they'll toss up something when the clock runs down.

Getting teams to shoot threes is fine with me. However, they need to be contested, rushed threes......I believe it is by design and recognizes the limitations our athletes have...and it is working.....

WallaWallaZag
01-15-2013, 07:18 PM
It seems we have an elite offense with a tweener defense.

zags only truly have an elite offense when pangos is on...considering his track record, it doesn't bode well for a deep run in march unless bell turns things around to offset the inconsistency of pangos.

WallaWallaZag
01-15-2013, 07:29 PM
.....I believe it is by design and recognizes the limitations our athletes have...and it is working.....

it is working if you're talking about winning games and getting into the tournament (can't really argue with 16-1)...but is it the best strategy if your ultimate goal is to make a deep run in march?

is it the best strategy to guard against an upset from a lower seed in the first two rounds? is it the best strategy when the zags finally run up against a truly top 10 type team in the sweet sixteen and beyond? which, btw, the zags haven't played any elite teams this year and won't in the regular season...

bartruff1
01-15-2013, 07:33 PM
it is working if you're talking about winning games and getting into the tournament (can't really argue with 16-1)...but is it the best strategy if your ultimate goal is to make a deep run in march?

is it the best strategy to guard against an upset from a lower seed in the first two rounds? is it the best strategy when the zags finally run up against a truly top 10 type team in the sweet sixteen and beyond? which, btw, the zags haven't played any elite teams this year and won't in the regular season... yes

SteelZag
01-15-2013, 07:34 PM
allows or forces...by design or not...the key point lost in all of this is that gonzaga is not in the nba where the law of averages are likely to play out over the course of a best of seven series. college basketball is one and done, which means it only takes one hot half or one hot shooter to end your season. the flip side of this is that a team giving up a lot of threes should hardly ever be giving up dribble penetration...unfortunately, that also doesn't appear to be the case with the zag perimeter defense.

I like the part about "best of seven series". Huge casino's are built on the law of avererages. They see someone getting hot on a blackjack table and walking away with fifty grand as a cost of business.

In a college basketball game, a team getting hot from the 3-point line is a recipe for disaster. If you don't guard them at all they feel as though they are shooting in warm ups.

kclubfounder
01-15-2013, 07:42 PM
it is working if you're talking about winning games and getting into the tournament (can't really argue with 16-1)...but is it the best strategy if your ultimate goal is to make a deep run in march?

is it the best strategy to guard against an upset from a lower seed in the first two rounds? is it the best strategy when the zags finally run up against a truly top 10 type team in the sweet sixteen and beyond? which, btw, the zags haven't played any elite teams this year and won't in the regular season...

Winning as many games as possible doesn't do it for you?

I give up.

WallaWallaZag
01-15-2013, 07:49 PM
yes

some reasoning beyond it's worked so far this year would be appreciated...

WallaWallaZag
01-15-2013, 07:53 PM
Winning as many games as possible doesn't do it for you?

I give up.

nope...i would happily sacrifice 5 wins in the regular season for just 1 extra win in march. if a change in defensive strategy makes the odds of this happening greater... it's just my opinion that the college game has changed to the point that the zag formula may not equate to the best odds for a march run... this is hardly an unreasonable assumption as styles and strategies in all sports are constantly evolving.

bartruff1
01-15-2013, 08:03 PM
some reasoning beyond it's worked so far this year would be appreciated...

Record Book...

I am not a expert (in spite of my St. Joseph 5th graders coaching experience).

I don't know who you are, but my assumption is that the Coaches know more and care more about winning and how to win than you do.

Now, maybe you do know more and care more than they do, so let them know they are not meeting your expectations and how to improve.

You can't call or email Few (unless you are on Steve Hertz's speed dial) but you can give Mike Roth a call with your concerns and suggestions... his number is 509 313 3519... don't tell him, I suggested you call.

Section 116
01-15-2013, 08:33 PM
Ranger and others: I belive the link to the OP is here but I don't have access to ESPN Insider:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/giant_killers/id/8845568/where-top-teams-arizona-wildcats-duke-blue-devils-vulnerable-upsets-college-basketball

ZagsBaby
01-15-2013, 08:55 PM
nope...i would happily sacrifice 5 wins in the regular season for just 1 extra win in march. if a change in defensive strategy makes the odds of this happening greater... it's just my opinion that the college game has changed to the point that the zag formula may not equate to the best odds for a march run... this is hardly an unreasonable assumption as styles and strategies in all sports are constantly evolving.

Be a Duke fan. They get top recruits.

We dont.

HTH

Rangerzag
01-15-2013, 08:58 PM
Ranger and others: I belive the link to the OP is here but I don't have access to ESPN Insider:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/giant_killers/id/8845568/where-top-teams-arizona-wildcats-duke-blue-devils-vulnerable-upsets-college-basketball


That is it. Thanks.

roxdoc
01-15-2013, 09:56 PM
Coach Few's philosophy has long been to essentially give the opponents the 3 and just beat them on offense. As has been pointed out this has given us a very nice 80% win record and even the odd Sweet 16.

The philosophy probably was originally born out of recruiting limitations, which gave us some offensive punch but traditionally limited access to uber athletic players who could play defense. Through the years some things have changed. As has been pointed out on this board, D-1 3-point shooting in general has increased both in frequency and success. Also thanks to the growth of our program we are recruiting better, more athletic, players.

The question is, will the defensive scheme allow our wonderful guys to equal or surpass the Monson Elite 8 team. I certainly hope so, but it seems to me that this is what the argument here is about.

azzagfan
01-15-2013, 10:01 PM
allows or forces...by design or not...the key point lost in all of this is that gonzaga is not in the nba where the law of averages are likely to play out over the course of a best of seven series. college basketball is one and done, which means it only takes one hot half or one hot shooter to end your season. the flip side of this is that a team giving up a lot of threes should hardly ever be giving up dribble penetration...unfortunately, that also doesn't appear to be the case with the zag perimeter defense.

Additionally, in college hoops with the shorter three-point line, certain teams are nearly designed to survive and thrive on 3-point shooting. Some more athletic teams probably wanted to force the 1998-1999 Zag team to need to shoot 3s, and to be honest, that was exactly how the Zags could easily offset the difference in athleticism. In college hoops, sometimes forcing a 17-foot semi-contested shot may work out better than allowing nearly uncontested 3-point attempts (obviously shots in the paint would be different). Also, nearly every Division 1 team has one to two guys that you must chase off the three point line as that's essentially their primary contribution to their team (see Duke - NC State as an example with Scott Wood from NC State).

maynard g krebs
01-16-2013, 12:33 AM
Statsheet.com says 33.4%, 318th, but so what?

For perspective: zag opponents are averaging 7 3's a game in 21 attempts. Kansas State and Wisconsin, the best of the tournament teams in this category, give up 4 makes per game. Only a couple other good teams give up less than 5 makes. Sure, that's 6 to 9 pts, but that doesn't take into account pace of play and less points from 2 pt shots if you're giving up more 3's.

Top 10 in fewest 3's (makes) given up:
Weber State
SF Austin
Jacksonville State
Denver
N KY
Fresno
Tennessee
Princeton
K State
TCU

A real murderers' row.

Michigan, Indiana, Kansas, Arizona, UCLA are just slightly ahead of the Zags in made 3's given up, between 6-7 a game, and all are within a couple attempts or 3 given up per game, or less.

Statsheet just gives gross #s of attempts and not the per game averages, but it looks like the median # of attempts given up is around 19, and median makes a bit over 6. Teams are bunched so tightly that the 300+ ranking is really insignificant.

FroZAG
01-16-2013, 01:02 AM
Gonzaga Bulldogs (No. 8 AP, No. 11 BPI)
Area of concern: 3-point defense
At first glance, the Zags appear to do a decent job against long-range shooters. Opponents shoot 33.1 percent from deep against them, which is just about average for Division I. But here's the thing: Gonzaga is just inviting top-shooting teams to go off. Illinois went 11-for-26 from 3-point range to hand Gonzaga its lone loss, and someone else will exploit that same weakness. Why? Gonzaga allows opponents to take an absurd 37.9 percent of their shots from deep. That's 309th in the country and a big reason the Bulldogs are only 72nd in defensive efficiency. It's pretty simple: If you can't chase your opponent off the arc, you're susceptible to a tourney upset.

Upset alert: A Butler win Saturday night wouldn't be much of an upset, but the guys from Indy are built to hurt the Zags. San Francisco (39.9 percent), Loyola Marymount (36.8 percent) and San Diego (37 percent) all have a shooter's chance against Gonzaga; Saint Mary's has more than that.

I don't post often but I read the board obnoxiously more than often...
and this is the worst argument I've read in a while.

I'm not trying to P in the watered down lemonade but come on....

First, 33.1% D from the arc from our Zags is much better than most years I believe. And if not, then def better than when we've had guards at 5-11, 6-1, 6-2 defending the three point line in the past.

Second, is the stunning part....

You're upset that we are ALLOWING soo many three point attempts that we are 309th in the nation.....

I don't believe that is anything to be upset about..... actually the opposite.
Most teams defensive strategy is to keep the ball AWAY from the bucket...and I firmly believe that is our intention as well.
So if our opponents are settling for three pointers throughout the game, (as well as a handful of shot clock bail-out's) that really just speak's to how well we control the paint in the majority of our matchups......... much credit to KO, EH, MH, GLE, PK etc....
You know, usually teams don't come in with a game plan of......' hey let's get to the three point line and jack it up. '

Illinois killed us from 3, no doubt! But if coach were given the option of every team coming into The Kennel and having to shoot 26 shots from 21 feet out, I'm pretty sure he would take it every time....
Especially while we win in the paint 40'ish points to 20'ish on the regular....

MEANWHILE..... the Gonzaga University Men's team is 253rd in offensive 3pt FG attempts per game, (although fully capable of making plenty more), we pound it into the paint where the rim is, and we put it in the hoop....
253rd......... and 9th in NCAA in scoring, and ranked #8 currently.

Because we impose our will.

Our opponents have not been able to impose their will on us and that's why we ALLOW teams to bail themselves out from three.

Would you rather our opp's be taking shot's in the paint??...like we do all year??

We are more powerful than other teams and we don't need to settle for three pointer's, (most of the time of course), and we power it to the bucket because we CAN. Other teams shoot three's because that's all they have been able to do against us. They can't.....get......to.......the bucket.

Giving up a wide open three from time to time kills me just as much as it does you....i promise. But a season long trend of The Zags dominating the paint while our opp's take their chances from three, is plenty ok with me.


By the way........
Just drink the cool-aid. It's for real this year.

WallaWallaZag
01-16-2013, 01:52 AM
while the 3-point defense argument is certainly interesting, i guess the real question for me is this: do folks here believe the current zag defense is good enough to get past the sweet sixteen and beyond??? ...or is the zag offense really so elite that the zags can get away with simply outscoring teams like in the baylor game? ...and if the zags are planning on just outgunning everyone, why not stick barham at the 3 if he's the deadeye many say he is, especially with bell struggling with injury + his shot and pangos sometimes off.

azzagfan
01-16-2013, 02:50 AM
I don't think the argument is what's better over a long season. Clearly, the Zags are showing that 15 out of 16 times, the defensive strategy that the Zags use is working. I think the argument is if this team is capable of denying three-point attempts against a good team that relies heavily on the 3-ball. Illinois does rely heavily on the 3-ball, and they beat us. St. Mary's relies heavily on the 3-ball and we won. I think the jury is still out if we can do it when needed. I tend to be optimistic on the topic.

Hoopaholic
01-16-2013, 04:41 AM
Yes I do believe their defense is good and good enough to take us a long ways...they just need to focus on it for 40 minutes...first half defense against a perimeter team of SMS held them to their season low...we can do it but need to do it for forty minutes

NotoriousZ
01-16-2013, 06:54 AM
I think we just need to tweek the game plan a little vs. teams that thrive on the three. They can take as many as they want, just less of the wide open looks please.

Other than that, our offense will have to continue to bail out the defense in many of these games. It makes them more exciting anyway.

Once and Future Zag
01-16-2013, 07:06 AM
zags only truly have an elite offense when pangos is on...considering his track record, it doesn't bode well for a deep run in march unless bell turns things around to offset the inconsistency of pangos.

Using KenPom's numbers:

Pangos has an offensive rating of 125.2 (67th overall) for the year so far, and GU has the #4 most efficient offense - and possession for possession better than the Ammo/Batista or the Pargo/Daye/Heytvelt teams

This team has an elite offense, period.

DADoZAG
01-16-2013, 08:24 AM
I think we just need to tweek the game plan a little vs. teams that thrive on the three. They can take as many as they want, just less of the wide open looks please.

Other than that, our offense will have to continue to bail out the defense in many of these games. It makes them more exciting anyway.


:agreed:

Having a game plan to protect the basket is great. Obviously it works about 80% of the time. But when a team is going off from 3, what about making an adjustment during the game?

Few has consistently talked about improving the weak link in the chain. He’s done this in almost every aspect but this.

This is not about the athletics, this is about mindset, imo.

If not, what several posters are saying is that the ZAGS have, in fact, hit their glass ceiling. There are several that have stated the ZAGS will NEVER be a #1 seed. There are some that have said the ZAGS will NEVER win an NC.

Ask Few if he accepts that.

Go ZAGS!

jake
01-16-2013, 08:32 AM
Well that IS the lowest percentage shot, so I'm not sure it's not somewhat by design.

True, but when you get 50% more points, that isn't always relevant. I don't know what to read from that statistic. If I had a nickle for every wide open 3 opponents have had from one of the corners since I enrolled at GU 18 years ago, I'd be doing ok. On the other hand, if our stat this season is more a result of making trailing teams pump up bad 3's, or our lock down defense inside the arc, that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

bartruff1
01-16-2013, 08:44 AM
If Mark was obsessed about winning a NC he would have left a long time ago. I doubt he will coach more than another 5-10 years and I also doubt he will consider his career a failure if he never gets to a Elite 8... the man has a clear view of what is important in the world...unlike some fans.

cjm720
01-16-2013, 08:46 AM
I'll take the over, Bart. I wouldn't be suprised if he coached to 70+...

bartruff1
01-16-2013, 08:48 AM
I'll take the over, Bart. I wouldn't be suprised if he coached to 70+... I have heard him say he won't....but people change their mind....

cjm720
01-16-2013, 08:52 AM
A few NC's in the next 10 years and he might! I just feel he will never be satisfied without one...and who knows how long we might have to wait. And then, the winnning percentage record may become another milestone...

229SintoZag
01-16-2013, 09:43 AM
GU has always been a team that allows opponents to get looks from the 3, some capitalize (Illinois) and some don't. Definately a concern moving forward. I really don't get why we haven't corrected this, the coaches obviously have to realize this is a problem.

GU allows teams to take 37.9 % of their shots from 3...wow! ranking us @
309th in the country, staggering to me.

Well we are obviously doing alot of things right, hopefully we can tighten this up though, you know some teams are licking there chops...as mentioned, a number of teams could hurt us here, I don't like those stats.

Does Gonzaga allow its opponents to take 37.9 percent of their shots from behind the arc, or force them to do so?

DADoZAG
01-16-2013, 09:57 AM
If Mark was obsessed about winning a NC he would have left a long time ago. I doubt he will coach more than another 5-10 years and I also doubt he will consider his career a failure if he never gets to a Elite 8... the man has a clear view of what is important in the world...unlike some fans.

If Mark Few was OBSESSED about winning an NC, he wouldn’t be Mark Few.

And you may be right about him only wanting at most another decade. He doesn’t seem to be one that thrives on the stress and pressure that a head coach at high level program is placed under. He certainly shouldn’t need the money.

Further, just because a few of us want an NC, doesn’t mean anything less is failure. Every year that Mark Few has been at GU, head coach or before, I’d say he has been a success. Perfect? No. A success? Hell, yah!

He may have been a success every day of his life for all I know. I do know that every season I’ve been cheering on the ZAGS I feel they have been a success, and I’m proud to support them.

That said, there is an obvious competitive side to the man. He wants that “next level”, and has said so often. Far be it from me to state with all certainty exactly how he might satisfy that want.

But I can have an opinion…

Go ZAGS!

DADoZAG
01-16-2013, 09:59 AM
Does Gonzaga allow its opponents to take 37.9 percent of their shots from behind the arc, or force them to do so?

I'll agree with those above that say it's forced.

Take what the opponent gives you, and the ZAGS obviously have chosen to give up the three. I'd even bet teams come in having greatly increased their focus and practice on just that.

I would, but then I'm not a successful D1 basketball coach.

Go ZAGS!

UberZagFan
01-16-2013, 01:18 PM
Interesting debate. Forced vs. Allows? Are we talking about good looks from 3 vs. contested shots on the block or in the key? If we are talking open look from 3 versus uncontested lay-in, then sure every coach would want the uncontested lay-in. But if a team is getting a "more" open look from 3 versus a shot on the blocks against a 7 footer, Uber is pretty sure every coach (every smart one) in the NCAA will take the 3 if they are hitting them at close to 35%.

Now 33% is just around the break-point for this type of thinking. A team that shoots 33% is equal in points to a team shooting 49.5% or so from 2. If a team came out against GU and only shot 3s on every possession and hit 1/3 of them (which again is like allowing a team to shoot 49.5% in the paint), would we consider that "forcing" them to 3 land or "allowing" the 3 pointer?

Look, Uber would like to see GU's perimeter defense not allow open or semi-open 3s and "force" those shots to go inside and against the trees. But if teams are taking a lot of "tough" 3s then have at it.

Another thing to consider in this "allows" vs. "force" debate is fouling. Generally, 3 point shooters are less likely to be fouled than shots taken in the paint. So that brings a lot of other factors into play....and 1 percentages, 1n1s, value of protecting your players that are in foul trouble, etc. That favors the "force" supporters even considering the fact that if you foul a 3 point shooter he gets 3 free shots.

rennis
01-16-2013, 01:35 PM
the only thing I don't love about this stat is the average to sometimes poor defensive rebounding that accompanies it. I counted over 10 bricked threes by SMC with ensuing offensive boards. GU's guards HAVE to capitalized on missed 3s and hunt down defensive rebounds better. That is seriously my ONLY gripe with our 3 point defense this year.

ridgebackzag
01-16-2013, 01:40 PM
I doubt a 1 seed will happen, mostly because we're going to be off the national radar for a while after Butler. We haven't had our mid season slump, but we're not out of the woods yet (it's still January). I think the win at OK St will help us the most considering the streak we snapped and they should get an auto bid.

Our defensive sets definitely entice 3s against us. If we let every capable body shoot a 3 against us then surely they'll find someone who's got the deadeye that day. We've been hurting teams that shoot the 3 poorly against us with our frontcourt.

maynard g krebs
01-16-2013, 02:22 PM
Everybody knows GU is primarily an inside team this year. GU has shot about 4.7 fewer 3's per game than their opponents, with less than 1.2 fewer made 3's.

The difference between a top 100 ranking and a 300+ ranking is about 4 three pt attempts by opponents per game, or about 1.3 made 3's. And if you defend the perimeter tighter, you'll give up more close to the basket.

If you look at team stats like fg%, defensive efficiency, rebounding, you see a lot of the top teams at the top of the stat list.

On opponents' 3 pt attempts, the better teams are scattered pretty randomly through the list. IMO that shows that this stat isn't a predictor of success.

Defense chooses what to take away and what to give up. Just a matter of style.

WallaWallaZag
01-16-2013, 06:08 PM
at the core, i really could care less what style of defense the zags play...however, i would very much like for the zags to play defense at a level which would rank them in the top 20-25 to go along with their top 5 level offense. might not be realistic with this edition of the zags, but top 40 should be reasonable...i believe the most recent defensive efficiency rankings had the zags in the 80's.

Zagcity
01-17-2013, 07:38 AM
By the way........
Just drink the cool-aid. It's for real this year.

+1 :cheers:

VinnyZag
01-17-2013, 08:38 AM
It would be OK if Gonzaga "forced"/"allowed" a lot of 3s, but did other things well defensively -- forced turnovers, dominated the defensive glass, blocked shots, forced a poor percentage on 2s.

But that's actually not the case. GU gives up too many 3s, and is so-so (sometimes bad) in other defensive categories. KenPom stats put GU at 131st in defensive eFG%, 150th in defensive TO%, 313th in block %.

kclubfounder
01-17-2013, 10:58 PM
I don't post often but I read the board obnoxiously more than often...
and this is the worst argument I've read in a while.

I'm not trying to P in the watered down lemonade but come on....

First, 33.1% D from the arc from our Zags is much better than most years I believe. And if not, then def better than when we've had guards at 5-11, 6-1, 6-2 defending the three point line in the past.

Second, is the stunning part....

You're upset that we are ALLOWING soo many three point attempts that we are 309th in the nation.....

I don't believe that is anything to be upset about..... actually the opposite.
Most teams defensive strategy is to keep the ball AWAY from the bucket...and I firmly believe that is our intention as well.
So if our opponents are settling for three pointers throughout the game, (as well as a handful of shot clock bail-out's) that really just speak's to how well we control the paint in the majority of our matchups......... much credit to KO, EH, MH, GLE, PK etc....
You know, usually teams don't come in with a game plan of......' hey let's get to the three point line and jack it up. '

Illinois killed us from 3, no doubt! But if coach were given the option of every team coming into The Kennel and having to shoot 26 shots from 21 feet out, I'm pretty sure he would take it every time....
Especially while we win in the paint 40'ish points to 20'ish on the regular....

MEANWHILE..... the Gonzaga University Men's team is 253rd in offensive 3pt FG attempts per game, (although fully capable of making plenty more), we pound it into the paint where the rim is, and we put it in the hoop....
253rd......... and 9th in NCAA in scoring, and ranked #8 currently.

Because we impose our will.

Our opponents have not been able to impose their will on us and that's why we ALLOW teams to bail themselves out from three.

Would you rather our opp's be taking shot's in the paint??...like we do all year??

We are more powerful than other teams and we don't need to settle for three pointer's, (most of the time of course), and we power it to the bucket because we CAN. Other teams shoot three's because that's all they have been able to do against us. They can't.....get......to.......the bucket.

Giving up a wide open three from time to time kills me just as much as it does you....i promise. But a season long trend of The Zags dominating the paint while our opp's take their chances from three, is plenty ok with me.


By the way........
Just drink the cool-aid. It's for real this year.

Please post more often.

:cheers: