PDA

View Full Version : A couple of things...



Bogozags
01-11-2013, 05:17 PM
1. Why is Edi only playing a few minutes at the start of the game?

Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me... It appears Coach Few doesn't have confidence in his game to warrant more PT.

2. No doubt KO is the most improved player on this year's team and without him we would more probably have a few more "L's"; however, I really think all the talk of him being a first/second round draft pick might be a bit stretched at best.

KO has definitely improved his offensive skills and might well be one of the top five front court players this season; however, he still needs work on his defense and it is also worth noting that he is definitely not a leaper. He is unable to block shots nor intimidate play in the post. We all knew that it would be virtually impossible to replace Rob's defensive presence in the post and we are very much thankful for KO's offensive growth and know he will continue to improve as the season progresses.

I would like to see him on the defensive side play with just a little "chip on his shoulder." His concentration was a tad off as he missed several chippies and had s rebound taken right out of his hands by a lesser player.

Don't misunderstand me, I feel he is the reason we won last night, the game before that, the game before that one and of course the game before that one too.

I hope he "carries" the Zags to the SS and to the EE and to the FF.

ZagLawGrad
01-11-2013, 05:40 PM
Not sure why Edi started last night. Maybe he is picking it up in practice, maybe it was a match-up issue. Whatever it was, Edi has disappeared.

But if he comes back in a strong way, look out. Questionable so far if that's in the cards, though.

Martin Centre Mad Man
01-11-2013, 05:49 PM
Not sure why Edi started last night. Maybe he is picking it up in practice, maybe it was a match-up issue. Whatever it was, Edi has disappeared.

But if he comes back in a strong way, look out. Questionable so far if that's in the cards, though.

If he can get back to his early season form, this team would be a lot more balanced, because he brings athleticism, defense, size, rebounding, and scoring at the 3 spot...when he's on his game. He hasn't been for the past month or more.

jazzdelmar
01-11-2013, 05:54 PM
Edi's been Carterized.

Birddog
01-11-2013, 06:09 PM
Edi's been Carterized.
How many minutes would you give him if you were the coach?

I think Few starts him in the hopes he'll get out of the funk and also because he'd rather play Hart off the bench. Hart has hinted that he likes to see the game flow before coming in.

In my eye, GLE looks like an independent contractor when he is in the game. He's crazy athletic but that's about it.

Oregonzagnut
01-11-2013, 09:39 PM
Edi's been Carterized.

I consider the JC slump related to a sophomore slump. It is a second year slump. The second year is the most difficult "hump" to get over. But for JC transfers who only get one year to work with the team, and learn DivI ball, their senior year comes way too quickly and it is almost a necessity to force things.

Hart and Harris are pretty confident and set in the system through the 4 years of Gonzaga. The JC transfer doesn't get the same time frame. Edi is dealing with play books, school books and television pressure. All the guys are for sure. But it helps if they get 4-5 full years in a system, in a school, and especially the media. Then throw in the time when friendships develop if you start as a freshman. To those who went to GU for 4+ years. Remember your freshman dorm wing? Remember how close that group of guys/gals were? Edi left that all at his JC and had to start again here. Very VERY difficult situation and I am not sold on the process yet. If Few did not bring in Edi, would we still have Spangler?

The learning curve doesn't get as far for the transfer as the learning curve for a frosh-4 yr sr.

roxdoc
01-11-2013, 10:16 PM
Carterized...Mannyized....etc

A process that creates a player with the need to look over his shoulder

ZagsGoZags
01-11-2013, 10:33 PM
Edi has fabulous motivation and energy,

but sometimes kind of like a powerful speedboat without a steering wheel

I really hope that after GU his tremendous motivation will help him calm down and keep his cool somewhat when he has the ball, or when trying to learn to defend effectively without fouling

WallaWallaZag
01-12-2013, 12:58 AM
part of it is the zag program...it's geared towards being able to develop players who are more skilled than athletic...players that are more athletic than skilled have a tendency to struggle at gonzaga. if mark few wants to get over the final four hump, his program will need to learn to develop some of these athletes into complete players that fit the gu system. gonzaga isn't kentucky, so the recruits are rarely going to be both athletic and skilled...harris is probably the only current player who can really truly be considered both...maybe bell, but he is undersized for a 2.

gbnyba17
01-12-2013, 02:33 AM
WWZ is right on point. Zags can take it deep this year, but WWZ unfortunately speaks my mind. Go zags!!!

mnzag24
01-12-2013, 06:35 AM
Carterized...Mannyized....etc

A process that creates a player with the need to look over his shoulder

PMaced

TacomaZAG
01-12-2013, 06:58 AM
But for me it is more "Malloned", as in Sean Mallon, the senior who started, played a few minutes to start each game, then sat for the remainder. Not sure why coach does that sort of thing, but is definitely not new.

It would be interesting to see what Coach would do if GLE was tearing it up in his 3-5 minute stint at the start of the game. Would he be left in, or pulled anyway at the pre-determined time???

Go ZAGS

zagmantis2001
01-12-2013, 08:22 AM
I liked Mallon. Miss the "floor slap".

On another note, what happened to Kyle D? He was getting some minutes-has he even seen the floor in league play? Weird.

ridgebackzag
01-12-2013, 09:04 AM
A lot of the JC guys mentioned in this thread were the best players on their JC team. They were most definitely not once they suited up for us. Maybe their slump is from the realization that the jump they hoped to make never came to fruition? I, and I hope WE, always want the best of our players but it doesn't always happen.

jazzdelmar
01-12-2013, 09:20 AM
Bird, loved the comment, In my eye, GLE looks like an independent contractor when he is in the game. He's crazy athletic but that's about it

Indeed he looks more like a mercenary, or as I call the local team, San Diego state, the bus depot team. Cut and paste players with little roots in the program. carter fits that bill but Batista did not. So it's a sliding scale. Ps, Can u send Spangler back? We will need him next year sans Kelly.

Bogozags
01-12-2013, 12:10 PM
Bird, loved the comment, In my eye, GLE looks like an independent contractor when he is in the game. He's crazy athletic but that's about it

Indeed he looks more like a mercenary, or as I call the local team, San Diego state, the bus depot team. Cut and paste players with little roots in the program. carter fits that bill but Batista did not. So it's a sliding scale. Ps, Can u send Spangler back? We will need him next year sans Kelly.

Jazz
I miss Spangler and think he would start next year.

Also don't think KO leaves, he isn't ready yet!

ZagLawGrad
01-12-2013, 02:37 PM
If he can get back to his early season form, this team would be a lot more balanced, because he brings athleticism, defense, size, rebounding, and scoring at the 3 spot...when he's on his game. He hasn't been for the past month or more.

He would make a big difference for this team if he can get it going. A mystery to me this year so far.

Baseline
01-12-2013, 03:04 PM
Dower is a Red Shirt Junior, if he doesn't work on defense and plays soft I would move on, he isn't going to change in the time left. I think a good case for more Karno can be made.

Kelly started out trying too hard on defense and had immediate foul problems, and yes, many were dumb reach in fouls. I think Kelly is too valuable not to be on the floor so he has backed off a bit on defense and is trying to figure the right level of intensity to play.

bballbeachbum
01-12-2013, 03:43 PM
on comparisons, when has GLE ever contributed like Carter, or even to a lesser extent, like Manny? He still could, and it would be great

Anyway, GLE is a nice player who is very athletic but appears to still be learning the game and sometimes reminds me of the way Americans used to play soccer 20years ago, with heart and toughness and athleticism and also some skill, but also with a certain lack of instinct/experience seems to me; opponents's have seemed to purposely force him to make decisions on O by leaving him just enough space when he gets the ball on the perimeter early in the shot clock, daring him to make a play and get himself into trouble while taking the Zags out of what they want to execute offensively. I haven't rewatched a bunch of game tape to form that opinion, don't have that kind of time anymore, but I remember observing and noting these things over many games.

This team could sure use him though if he could deliver what he can bring, no arguments there, and he has been great supporting his teammates from the bench, enthusiastic and sincere imo

I expect some disagreement with my evaluation of him, but there it is :)

ZagsBaby
01-12-2013, 03:50 PM
But for me it is more "Malloned", as in Sean Mallon, the senior who started, played a few minutes to start each game, then sat for the remainder. Not sure why coach does that sort of thing, but is definitely not new.

It would be interesting to see what Coach would do if GLE was tearing it up in his 3-5 minute stint at the start of the game. Would he be left in, or pulled anyway at the pre-determined time???

Go ZAGS


Mallon averaged 21.3 minutes his senior year and averaged a career high 8 points per game. Sorry, somebody had to call you out on this. Please at least be accurate when attempting to question the staff, thanks.

Few is trying to give Edi confidence by saying "Hey, we still believe in you, you're gonna start" and it's Edi's job to do something with it. But he hasn't, because he's basically just an extremely athletic, strong, big guy with mediocre basketball skills.

gamagin
01-12-2013, 03:51 PM
How many minutes would you give him if you were the coach?

I think Few starts him in the hopes he'll get out of the funk and also because he'd rather play Hart off the bench. Hart has hinted that he likes to see the game flow before coming in.

In my eye, GLE looks like an independent contractor when he is in the game. He's crazy athletic but that's about it.

Strictly from observation, Edi gets in the game and is supposed to "do" something, like (in my mind, at any rate) be in position, stay between his opponent & the basket, or know what to do on the switch or inbounds or "SOMETHING."

And when it doesn't happen, when he clearly indicates he doesn't get it yet, out he comes, and stays, because there isn't time to wait for him to catch on.

Agree, when it comes to teamwork, he's a cowboy.

DixieZag
01-12-2013, 05:44 PM
The last 5 game stretch has been brutal on our players with nagging injuries and stuck in a rut.

Hopefully, the week off and some games against less competitive teams will allow Coach to rest some of the guys (Bell, Pangos, Harris) and then get some PT for some guys that really need to figure out if they can contribute (GLE, Dranginis) and some PT for guys that simply need more PT (Karnow).

We just played 5 straight against top competition (except maybe Pepp) and 3 of those games were on the road. Tough to "mend" things in a stretch like that.

I think we are going to be ok. I actually think that SMC coming back at us is going to be a very very good lesson for our guys and they didn't have to pay the price of an "L" for it.

teacher56
01-13-2013, 07:17 AM
[QUOTE=gamagin;854262]
Strictly from observation, Edi gets in the game and is supposed to "do" something, like (in my mind, at any rate) be in position, stay between his opponent & the basket, or know what to do on the switch or inbounds or "SOMETHING."
And when it doesn't happen, when he clearly indicates he doesn't get it yet, out he comes, and stays, because there isn't time to wait for him to catch on.



IMO
There is so much pressure to win that there is just simply not alot of time to wait for a player to perform up to his capabilities.
Especially when rakings, ratings, conference championships and then of course, the WCC & NCAA tourneys are on the line, and this all has to be accomlished in what, a 20 to 30 game span. And thats not taking fan pressure into account.
The NBA with their 80 plus game schedule, discounting playoffs, at times does not have time to coddle players.
Maybe the point guard position is an exception but only if there is not an adequate replacement.

Mantua
01-13-2013, 10:21 AM
part of it is the zag program...it's geared towards being able to develop players who are more skilled than athletic...players that are more athletic than skilled have a tendency to struggle at gonzaga. if mark few wants to get over the final four hump, his program will need to learn to develop some of these athletes into complete players that fit the gu system. gonzaga isn't kentucky, so the recruits are rarely going to be both athletic and skilled...harris is probably the only current player who can really truly be considered both...maybe bell, but he is undersized for a 2.

I agree.

The thing is that you can always see athletic players throughout NCAA basketball
who give their coaches the same problem.

Gonzaga has done pretty well considering the fact that we've always lacked elite athleticism.

ZagLawGrad
01-13-2013, 10:22 AM
Gonzaga has done pretty well considering the fact that we've always lacked elite athleticism.

And don't forget our small school size, it's 15 degrees in Spokane today, etc.

ZagsBaby
01-13-2013, 10:38 AM
I agree.

The thing is that you can always see athletic players throughout NCAA basketball
who give their coaches the same problem.

Gonzaga has done pretty well considering the fact that we've always lacked elite athleticism.

And when we've had that elite athleticism (Edi for example) it lacks basketball skill

bballbeachbum
01-13-2013, 10:58 AM
And when we've had that elite athleticism (Edi for example) it lacks basketball skill

there are some exceptions over the years I can think of off the top of my head, too...Calvary, Pargo, Downs, Heytvelt and on this team Bell imo, but generally this has applied

E is an example of the excellent athlete who has been developed, and I like the equation. As so many more leave early for the pros, the excellent athlete who develops for 4 years can have some advantages imo.

Also seems to me the general athleticism of the Zags has improveed teamwide a certain percentage over the years, but the skilled players and their abilities to overcome better athleticism with executuion and skill and teamwork has always been a part of the Zag equation since I started watching at least