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Zag-Coug
01-10-2013, 10:17 PM
What a joke. Overshadowed and ruined a good effort by both teams. Guess it's not a new story though.

JPtheBeasta
01-10-2013, 10:20 PM
They let them play in the first half. Makes me wonder if there is a Batphone from the WCC head of officiating in the referee locker room...

Any time you give up a 20 point lead it's your own fault, but it was like watching two different games.

hooter73
01-10-2013, 10:20 PM
its said so often anymore that i just ignore it but honestly, how can it be this bad day in day out, year after year?

kitzbuel
01-10-2013, 10:20 PM
Complete zoo.

jpn17
01-10-2013, 10:20 PM
Agreed. The consistency is non existent. The refs completely changed how they called the game after halftime. Welcome back to the WCC indeed. Disgraceful.

CaliforniaZaggin'
01-10-2013, 10:20 PM
It's embarassing. So, sooo bad.

zagamatic
01-10-2013, 10:21 PM
Quite possibly the worst officiating I've seen in a long time. And I watch Pac 12 games

HOOTER
01-10-2013, 10:23 PM
Not in the least bit surprised. WCC officiating is some of the worst you'll find anywhere.

And we're just getting started.

jwalk
01-10-2013, 10:23 PM
Sad!!!!!

No consistency from the first half to the second half. Bad calls on both ends of the floor.

ZagSports
01-10-2013, 10:24 PM
Were there bad calls in this game? Yes. Are there bad calls in every game? Yes. Did it effect the outcome of the game? No.

The game was called in my eyes equally both ways. They let the players be overly physical tonight that is fine if they stay consistent with it which they did for the most part.

This was a big east type officiated game, had no problem with it

CDC84
01-10-2013, 10:25 PM
I've said it once and I will say it again....Ken Ditty is very close to being the worst official in division one basketball. He has no business officiating at this level.

Birddog
01-10-2013, 10:25 PM
So just who was charged with the foul if Levesque wasn't? Just one of many weird calls and bad calls and no calls. Ken Ditty was one of them so I guess that's part of it.

Pleasant Peninsula
01-10-2013, 10:26 PM
The "jump ball" call that went our way was one of the worst calls in a big spot that I've seen in a long time. There were other questionable and arguable calls, but that one was just pathetic. Of course, there was a "make-up" call soonthereafter that went against the Zags and wasn't much better.

john montana
01-10-2013, 10:26 PM
That bald guy wanted to be on tv a lot. Wow. He blew the jump ball call (karma though...smc lucked into the Harvard win by getting an even worse jump ball) and then they let hart get mauled a second later to give the ball back to smc. Just a debacle.

Saxon_zag
01-10-2013, 10:26 PM
It was super clear that a point of emphasis given to the officials was not rewarding the flop this week. Too bad they have horrid judgement and that turned into never calling charges no matter how legitimate

rijman
01-10-2013, 10:28 PM
I've never seen so many players knocked to the floor without a call. Holt and Waldow were free to run through anyone in the lane without a call. Was the officiating consistent, I didn't think so. Block, charge or no call, almost impossible to guess what the call would be.

Pleasant Peninsula
01-10-2013, 10:31 PM
I think a lot of the calls folks here are upset about weren't that bad (with some notable and horrific exceptions). The Zags did a lot of flopping on defense and so did the Gaels. I like it when there is a "no call" in those instances. Both Kelly and Elias were guilty of that several times, and it led to easy buckets. Flopping is no substitute for defensive intensity (of which the Zags had none tonight).

GonzaGAW
01-10-2013, 10:36 PM
any objective observer could only come away with the assessment that that was a terribly called game. the only consistency was the officials called it terrible on both teams.

i can only hope those officials get a fair post game review that takes them to task. i said i hope, i doubt it will happen. but really those three officials need to hit the court next time realizing they have to do better.

Cavebear33
01-10-2013, 10:36 PM
When you lead with an elbow to the chest, it isn't a flop on the part of the defender. That jump ball called when Harris grabbed Dellavadova was awful. Horrible officiating on both sides. "Letting them play" doesn't mean giving up on your job as an official. It shouldn't get down to hand to hand combat. Leave that to the NBA. Glad the Zags got the win, but jeez!

kitzbuel
01-10-2013, 10:37 PM
Losing track of who fouls are on
Jump ball
Make up call
No call when Bell fouls Delly prior to the three

Just a few.

jwalk
01-10-2013, 10:41 PM
As a player, you want some sort of consistency. If you are constantly thinking about what the refs are going to call, and what you have to run on the offensive and defensive end, it takes you out of your rhythm. At least the refs were consistent in not calling a charge when it was.

Bottom line is that we persevered through another tough game with many questionable calls. I hope the team learned they need to play the second half with the same urgency as they play the first half.

MTZag03
01-10-2013, 10:42 PM
I so want GU to bolt to the newly forming conference with the 7 Catholic schools from the Big East just to get away from these officials. This was embarrassing.

Good win Zags. Good game Gaels, credit to them on their run.

DCZag
01-10-2013, 10:43 PM
C'mon man! Does anyone here really expect the WCC refs to be good? At least they were consistently bad...

Pleasant Peninsula
01-10-2013, 10:44 PM
As a player, you want some sort of consistency. If you are constantly thinking about what the refs are going to call, and what you have to run on the offensive and defensive end, it takes you out of your rhythm. At least the refs were consistent in not calling a charge when it was.


The inconsistent calls didn't seem to take St. Mary's "out of the rhythm" in the as they were hanging a 50 spot on us in the second half.

switchboard
01-10-2013, 10:45 PM
I disagree with the argument that bad reffing doesn't affect game outcomes. It completely ruins the offensive flow and gives the team who's getting all the calls a confidence that they can get whatever they want.

Pleasant Peninsula
01-10-2013, 10:51 PM
Anyone that thinks "all the calls" went against Gonzaga is crazy. I haven't been over to godisagael yet, but I bet they are as apoplectic about the officiating as we are. The worst you can say is that they were equally bad. Using the refs as an excuse for the poor 2nd half effort is chicken####. Okay, I've beat this horse enough... time to go for a walk.

rawkmandale
01-10-2013, 10:53 PM
I just checked my DVR and watched the call at 27 seconds left when Mike Hart got his hands on a rebound and a St. Mary's player absolutely mugged him, flailing his arm through Mike's arms and the ball and knocking it out of bounds. I hadn't seen a clearer foul/initiated-ball-out-of-bounds in a long time. Few was ready to explode. Mike Hart was incredulous.

That can't be regarded as a make-up call. Those are supposed to be reasonably close plays that are ruled in favor of the team that is "owed one." I don't mind those. The couple of occasions when our players received a forearm shiver was bad enough - this was highway robbery.

GZag
01-10-2013, 10:54 PM
One word - Very horrible. Alright, that was two.

CDC84
01-10-2013, 11:01 PM
The league just deserves better officiating than this. Regardless of which school you represent.

GeorgiaZagFan
01-10-2013, 11:01 PM
...and usually the bigger, more athletic team that keeps getting the ball inside shoots twice as many FT's as the team that mainly shoots three pointers. (Gaels shot 27, Zags 14) The Zags shot 18 FTs and St. Marys shot 23. I truly believe that it was a triple combination of lucky bounces, uninspired play by the Zags AND the refs which "allowed" St. Mary's to get back into that game during the 2nd half. Called correctly the Zags shoot more FT's and win by 15.......

DixieZag
01-10-2013, 11:03 PM
The inconsistent calls didn't seem to take St. Mary's "out of the rhythm" in the as they were hanging a 50 spot on us in the second half.

That is b/c that during the SMC run - from 15:00 to 8:00 in the second half, none of the calls went against SMC and some of the worst calls against GU were done.

The Zags let SMC back in the game by relaxing and not matching SMC's intensity on defense and rebounding.

The officials then ensured that SMC would have EVERY opportunity to make the most of it - - GU could not get a call underneath, Delly got a complete phantom call on a baseline drive, Holt got one coming down the lane.

I was lucky enough to be someone's guest at the game tonight and the crowd was as pissed as I have ever seen them; about GU's lack of intensity and also the ghost fouls on Holt/Delly's drives as well as the phantom offensive calls on KO (one an offensive foul before the ball was inbounded and the other was the only "charge" called to award a flop all night).

One thing that may not have translated well on TV but sitting right under the hoop was obvious to everyone, on every shot during the second half SMC was throwing Zags away, holding on to their arms - - it was brutal.

Now, the Gaels were totally screwed by that jump ball call and they were ignored in the first half entirely, but I think that once GU let SMC come back, the refs were there to ensure a good show.

It was terrible and it was the talk of the stands. . heard things I have never heard at a game.

Benett is almost as big a whiner as Keating.

NotoriousZ
01-11-2013, 06:26 AM
The "jump ball" call that went our way was one of the worst calls in a big spot that I've seen in a long time. There were other questionable and arguable calls, but that one was just pathetic. Of course, there was a "make-up" call soonthereafter that went against the Zags and wasn't much better.

In the ref's defense on the jump ball call, and I can't believe I just said that, he was shielded by the bodies of Harris and Delly and he couldn't see that E's hands were on Mouthpiece's arm and not the ball. It's tough not to make a call one way or the other when there's that much contact, but yeah, that was a terrible call.

The make up calls should be a topic at the next WCC officiating class. When you make a sh!tty call (it's going to happen alot apparently) get over it and try not to make things worse by making another.

tobizag
01-11-2013, 07:41 AM
ready for a serious conundrum?

i am convinced that kid fouled out for st marys, and then suddenly the refs inform us they had assigned the foul earlier in the game to a different player...this was the foul, according to bardo, that occurred when dower hit the long 2 pointer.

well, i just walked through the play-by-play listed on espn, and they only have beau with 5 fouls for the game. okay, so i went to that jumpshot dower hit. there, on espn, they list beau as committing the foul at that moment.

so, which foul was reassigned? and to whom?

mnzag24
01-11-2013, 07:43 AM
The league just deserves better officiating than this. Regardless of which school you represent.

i sent multiple tweets to @WCCsports arguing this very thing. Yes it is twitter, yes it was probably ignored, but it had to be said

mnzag24
01-11-2013, 07:45 AM
also, im sure dave libby is proud that his refs did not allow the game to get in the way of his zebras grabbing the spot light. :clap:

rijman
01-11-2013, 08:05 AM
In the ref's defense on the jump ball call, and I can't believe I just said that, he was shielded by the bodies of Harris and Delly and he couldn't see that E's hands were on Mouthpiece's arm and not the ball. It's tough not to make a call one way or the other when there's that much contact, but yeah, that was a terrible call.

Agreed. The first camera angle where you could see the ball it was obviously not a tie up, but the camera angle from the baseline, which was the refs view, it appeared Harris had the ball.

The bad foul calls went both ways, but as a Zags fan there were a couple that stuck out for me, Hart getting mauled when the ball was knocked out of his hands out of bounds to SMC, the player went through Hart to get to the ball. There was Holt coming straight down the lane elevating into a stationary Stocks knocking Stocks to the floor. Stocks got up and looked back at the ref like you gotta be effing kidding me. Like I said earlier, I never saw so many players get knocked down, not flopping, without a whistle. It reminded me more of school yard ball where the rule was "no autopsy, no foul."

teacher56
01-11-2013, 08:20 AM
What a joke. Overshadowed and ruined a good effort by both teams. Guess it's not a new story though.

It was bad on both sides...one of the years worst!

HenneZag
01-11-2013, 08:23 AM
Yes they were absolutely horrible, but its no mystery, they have always been horrible, alot of bad calls on both ends.

We can't blame the refs for missing 10 layups or the lack of intensity in the 2nd half, that is on us.

007Zag
01-11-2013, 09:23 AM
I won't blame the refs for St Mary's getting back in, although I think they helped. But I can't stand the "at least they were consistently bad" rationalization. Consistency in reffing is a virtue when it comes to how tightly you're calling the game, not how equally you're screwing teams.

I watch basketball because it is a beautiful game. I root for the Zags because they are the team playing this beautiful game that I have the closest affiliation with. Reffing like that ruins basketball games. The WCC needs to figure this out, because their refs are turning something beautiful into something ugly.

BULLDOG#1
01-11-2013, 10:00 AM
Yes they were absolutely horrible, but its no mystery, they have always been horrible, alot of bad calls on both ends.

We can't blame the refs for missing 10 layups or the lack of intensity in the 2nd half, that is on us.

I agree, especially with us not blaming the refs for missing 10 layups and not have the 2nd half intensity...

But it would be nice if our starting forward is allowed six fouls when we travel to moraga.

ZagsGoZags
01-11-2013, 10:07 AM
That 'jump ball' foul that went our way

was OK for me,

it balanced the very same bad call that favored the Gaels in their miraculous comeback against Harvard, where they were behind the whole game except the last 5 seconds.

That's what happened last night. That bad call helped us a lot when you consider that during those last few minutes they had pulled to with 1-3 points of us.

That bad call helped us almost as the identical bad call in the SMC's - Harvard game

CDC84
01-11-2013, 10:57 AM
While the jump ball call was a bad call, the bottom line is that Gonzaga pretty much dominated 2/3 of that game and deserved their win. Even if SMC had maintained possession, there were no guarantees as to what would've happened next. It's hard for me to think of the situation as highway robbery. It wasn't like the Colorado/Arizona game the other night.

vandalzag
01-11-2013, 11:02 AM
He could not see any part of the ball so he just flipped a coin and made a call for the sake of making a call. Just brutal, you can forgive missing something but guessing is way worse.

zaglife
01-11-2013, 11:43 AM
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but it seems to me that whenever we play on ESPN, the refs seem to try and get the game close. Which in part would be why there is no consistency in their foul calling. If the game is boring and/or a blowout, people that are not avid fans are not going to keep watching. The Almighty Dollar Rules again.....sigh.

JPtheBeasta
01-11-2013, 11:46 AM
He could not see any part of the ball so he just flipped a coin and made a call for the sake of making a call. Just brutal, you can forgive missing something but guessing is way worse.

You probably have to call something there, and the scenario was reversed and a foul was called on E when he actually had all ball, that would have been much worse. The ref basically punted, IMO. After seeing Delly work the refs as much as his coach does (which he does a lot), it really gets under my skin so I found some poetic justice in the bad call at that point of the game.

This game reminded me of the Golden Tate catch against Green Bay in the sense that the Packers were the beneficiary of some iffy penalties earlier in the game that kept drives going, that put them in the position they were. If either game is called consistantly I think the Zags (and Seahawks) win easily.

Frazzle
01-11-2013, 12:15 PM
also, im sure dave libby is proud that his refs did not allow the game to get in the way of his zebras grabbing the spot light. :clap:

I am not 100% sure, but I think Dave Libby has publicly said that he teaches refs that they must "stand up" to the home crowd and make calls. While laudable to refuse to swallow your whistle in the face of an intimidating home crowd, the WCC refs sometimes seem like they have something to prove to the home crowd at Gonzaga.

sittingon50
01-11-2013, 12:16 PM
per your 1st post, they didn't need the batphone last night. Batman (Dave Libbey) was seated at the other end of the table from Bardo.

Methinks the guys in stripes tried too hard when the boss was there. Or maybe they got the same kind of talking to at the half (only 11 fouls called) that Randy B. was giving his troops in the lockerroom across the hall.

combatcorpsmangulaw
01-11-2013, 12:28 PM
I'm not speaking about occasional mistakes by Refs - that's part of any sporting event. However, Teams/Coaches have a right to expect competency from Officials/Refs.

The West Virginia game was a disgrace from an officiating point of view. I am a long time Zags fan but West Virginia never had a prayer of getting any momentum in that game at the Kennel.

Last night was another example of poorly trained, incompetent officials missing calls time after time.

The Technology is available to review calls. I'm not advocating looking at the replay tape 10 times a game. But, when Coaches make a legitimate request to review plays, there has to be some mechanism that questions these horrendous calls that are clearly wrong. Maybe that procedure will serve as a sufficient embarrassment to these incompetent refs that ruin the game.

There are really some very poor Refs in college basketball. Well beyond occasional mistakes.

zag70
01-11-2013, 07:51 PM
I agree with most of the posts. Inconsistency was inexcusable in the 2nd half. Greenstien was horrible as usual...should not ever officiate games. He came close to giving Few a T in the late part of the game and had already given a stupid bench warning to St M. Nixon likes the bigs to mix it up and without G it usually amounts to a fair and efficent game. Ditty is always pompous but not exactly the worst of the worst. Perhaps the hidden figure was the guy who was sitting in observation, i.e. the worst ref in WCC history: Dave Libby