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ZagNative
01-10-2013, 11:10 AM
From GoZags (http://www.gozags.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=627537&SPID=90846&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=205909660&DB_OEM_ID=26400):
SPRINGFIELD, Mass. - Gonzaga University sophomore Kevin Pangos is among the 20 watch list finalists for the 2013 Bob Cousy Collegiate Point Guard of the Year Award.

The finalists were announced Thursday by the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.

The annual honor, named for Hall of Famer and former Boston Celtic Bob Cousy, recognizes the top point guards in men's college basketball. An original list of 80 candidates was trimmed down by a nationally-based committee to the below list of 20.

"This list embodies 20 of the nations most elite and dominate point guards in college basketball," said John L. Doleva, President and CEO of the Basketball Hall of Fame. "The Hall of Fame is honored to celebrate these feats, as we move forward to the latter stages of the selection process."

"All 20 of these young men represent strong values of skill, determination and teamwork, all characteristics that made Mr. Cousy the iconic leader he was," said Ken Kaufman, Chair of the Bob Cousy Award and former president of the National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC). "These young men are certainly deserving of this acknowledgement. We look forward to continuing the selection process, and seeing all of the players compete for this highly-respected award."

Pangos, from Newmarket, Ontario, is averaging a team-high 3.7 assists/game this season and has a 2.57 assist-to-turnover ratio. He's averaging 11.8 ppg and 2.3 rpg. He had a career-high 9 assists last season against Loyola Marymount University and also scored a career-high 33 points against Washington State University. This season he has had 6 assists in a game three times and scored a season-high 31 points against Baylor.

The current listing of 20 finalists for the 2013 Bob Cousy Award will be narrowed down to 10 players in early February and then down five players by early March. The final five players in contention for the award will be presented to Mr. Cousy and the Hall of Fame's selection committee. The Hall of Fame committee is made up of top college basketball personnel including media members, head coaches, Sports Information Directors and Hall of Famers. The winner of the 2013 Bob Cousy Award will be presented at the Hall of Fame's Class Announcement on Championship Monday April 8 in Atlanta as part of NCAA Final Four weekend.

Previous winners of the Bob Cousy Award have included Jameer Nelson (St. Joseph's), Raymond Felton (North Carolina), Dee Brown (Illinois), Acie Law (Texas A & M), DJ Augustin (Texas), Ty Lawson (North Carolina), Greivis Vasquez (Maryland), Kemba Walker (Connecticut) and last year's recipient Kendall Marshall (North Carolina).

2013 Bob Cousy Award Candidates

Name/School

Jahii Carson/Arizona State University

Pierre Jackson/Baylor University

Quinn Cook/Duke University

KEVIN PANGOS/GONZAGA UNIVERSITY

Keith Appling/Michigan State University

Isaiah Canaan/Murray State University

Kendall Williams/New Mexico

Lorenzo Brown/North Carolina State University

Aaron Craft/Ohio State University

D.J. Cooper/Ohio University

Marcus Smart/Oklahoma State University

Nate Wolters/South Dakota State University

Michael Carter-Williams/Syracuse University

Mark Lyons/University of Arizona

Ray McCallum/University of Detroit Mercy

Peyton Siva/University of Louisville

Trey Burke/University of Michigan

Andre Hollins/University of Minnesota

Phil Pressey/University of Missouri

Erick Green/Virginia Tech

Zagdawg
01-10-2013, 11:19 AM
If the gaels scheduled better to get delly in the national spotlight he would be on the list too-- too bad-- he is a solid point guard.

It's great to be a Zag.

sittingon50
01-10-2013, 11:23 AM
Unless they are treating Delly as a SG (he's not) there is no way Kevin is on there ahead of him.

jazzdelmar
01-10-2013, 12:40 PM
From GoZags (http://www.gozags.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=627537&SPID=90846&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=205909660&DB_OEM_ID=26400):

pangos about 18th on that list?

BTB
01-10-2013, 12:43 PM
Bit of a blow to all the people on here who have been hating on him.. sure, our guard play won't stand up to the elite competition...

MDABE80
01-10-2013, 12:51 PM
It's a nice honor to build on for Kevin's 3rd and 4th years. We'll see how he developes further. As it sits now, he'd have to be a 20-5 guy and the Zags would need to be in the FF for him to win it. He's got 15 reg season games left to move things up.

Worthington
01-10-2013, 01:09 PM
Wow congratulations Kevin! Great company to be in, more impressive is the list of names he is on there over. In the WCC alone, Ireland, Roquemore and Delladova are all guys playing at least equally as good or arguably better. Oh well, can't complain too much, Kevin has been having a very solid season.

bartruff1
01-10-2013, 01:26 PM
Bit of a blow to all the people on here who have been hating on him.. sure, our guard play won't stand up to the elite competition... Congradulations Kevin...well deserved...

cjm720
01-10-2013, 01:39 PM
Trey Burke without a doubt. Love that Pangos is getting some recognition.

ZagsBaby
01-10-2013, 02:03 PM
Bit of a blow to all the people on here who have been hating on him.. sure, our guard play won't stand up to the elite competition...

Well you could believe that just because he's top 20 for an award that he's the GOAT, or you could take a look at his numbers and accept the fact that he needs to be better and more consistent.

Like I said in a previous thread, if you take out 3 halves of Pangos' season, his numbers are brutal. Needs to be better. No idea why people can't handle that truth

gozagswoohoo
01-10-2013, 02:59 PM
Phil Pressey is a STUD (as much as I can't stand Mizzou)

And I REALLY like Aaron Craft's game.

tobizag
01-10-2013, 04:01 PM
so i pulled together all these guys PER, highlighting specifically their AST Rate (% of possessions resulting in Ast) and TO Rate (% of possessions resulting in TO), and then grabbed their PER rank within their respective conference.

also, i added in dellavedova and roquemore for reference.

sorted by PER:

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o514/tobizag/ScreenShot2013-01-10at35616PM_zps1a7364ce.png

of the top 20, kevin comes in 19th. couple of items to note. first, looking at kevin's AST and TO rate, his core PG traits are strong. his low PER therefore points to the lack of consistency on the scoring end of things. still, his other offensive numbers are impressive enough despite his inconsistency to put him just barely behind aaron craft on total PER.

also, trey burke is a beast.

FlyZag
01-10-2013, 04:04 PM
Phil Pressey is a STUD (as much as I can't stand Mizzou)

And I REALLY like Aaron Craft's game.

Couldn't agree more woohoo!

Both Craft and Pressey are OUTSTANDING!

NotoriousZ
01-10-2013, 04:09 PM
Well you could believe that just because he's top 20 for an award that he's the GOAT, or you could take a look at his numbers and accept the fact that he needs to be better and more consistent.

Like I said in a previous thread, if you take out 3 halves of Pangos' season, his numbers are brutal. Needs to be better. No idea why people can't handle that truth

Don't know where to start here.

* The truth as you see it, you mean?
* Could he be better? Sure, they all could.
* If you took out 3 halves of out of anybody's season they'd have -1/2 of a season. Ha ha, but seriously, taking out the best moments of a guy's accomplishments so you can trash him with your "truth" says more about you than him IMHO.

jazzdelmar
01-10-2013, 04:10 PM
[QUOTE=tobizag;852774]so i pulled together all these guys PER, highlighting specifically their AST Rate (% of possessions resulting in Ast) and TO Rate (% of possessions resulting in TO), and then grabbed their PER rank within their respective conference.

also, i added in dellavedova and roquemore for reference.
of the top 20, kevin comes in 19th. couple of items to note. first, looking at kevin's AST and TO rate, his core PG traits are strong. his low PER therefore points to the lack of consistency on the scoring end of things. still, his other offensive numbers are impressive enough despite his inconsistency to put him just barely behind aaron craft on total PER.



thanks for the validation. good work...maybe KP will start rising tonite...

2wiceright
01-10-2013, 04:14 PM
Trey Burke without a doubt. Love that Pangos is getting some recognition.

Agreed....All the haters need to remember the kind of competition he's been playing against, and doing a fine job. Delladova no doubt deserves to be on there but credit Randy Bennett for not allowing his point guard to show he can shine against elite competition (too bad they couldn't take into consideration his showing on the Aussey Olympic team).

Zag4Hire
01-10-2013, 04:17 PM
Only non-BCS winner: Jameer Nelson. Happened to be the first offering.

It would be difficult imagining it not go to Peyton Siva.

Also no photo of Kevin Pangos on the site?! WTF.

Once and Future Zag
01-10-2013, 04:31 PM
Looking at KenPom's Offensive Rating

Trey Burke/University of Michigan 134.8
Erick Green/Virginia Tech 122.5
KEVIN PANGOS/GONZAGA UNIVERSITY 122.4
Andre Hollins/University of Minnesota 121.9
Ray McCallum/University of Detroit Mercy 121.6
Nate Wolters/South Dakota State University 118.9
Isaiah Canaan/Murray State University 117.4
Aaron Craft/Ohio State University 115.9
Pierre Jackson/Baylor University 115.3
Quinn Cook/Duke University 115.1
Peyton Siva/University of Louisville 113.9
Kendall Williams/New Mexico 111.8
D.J. Cooper/Ohio University 111.3
Mark Lyons/University of Arizona 111.3
Keith Appling/Michigan State University 110.9
Marcus Smart/Oklahoma State University 108.7
Lorenzo Brown/North Carolina State University 108.2
Michael Carter-Williams/Syracuse University 106.9
Phil Pressey/University of Missouri 105.4
Jahii Carson/Arizona State University 99.4

--
Roquemore - 127.8
Dellavadova - 126.8

Crazy
01-10-2013, 05:02 PM
Quite impressive but also a bit surprising that he made that list, but when you have a team with 2 dominating big men(Harris is on the Woooden 25 list when i heard it correctly right now) you usually need someone to set them up.

ZagsBaby
01-10-2013, 05:15 PM
Don't know where to start here.

* The truth as you see it, you mean?
* Could he be better? Sure, they all could.
* If you took out 3 halves of out of anybody's season they'd have -1/2 of a season. Ha ha, but seriously, taking out the best moments of a guy's accomplishments so you can trash him with your "truth" says more about you than him IMHO.

Yeah, because I want to talk trash about Pangos. Or maybe Im just trying to be objective and avoid the "gonzaga fans are delusional" slander. Pangos was awesome in the 2nd half of the Davidson game, and was awesome against Baylor and Okie State. That is 3/32 of his season. That's a tiny sample size. He's been awesome for less than 10% of the season so far. He needs to be better. Why is that so hard to admit? I don't think taking out 3/32 of a sample size is much, so my argument is perfectly valid. If you want to drink the kool-aid, talk about the 15-1 record, or Kelly Olynyk. Pangos needs to be better.

maynard g krebs
01-10-2013, 05:30 PM
Yeah, because I want to talk trash about Pangos. Or maybe Im just trying to be objective and avoid the "gonzaga fans are delusional" slander. Pangos was awesome in the 2nd half of the Davidson game, and was awesome against Baylor and Okie State. That is 3/32 of his season. That's a tiny sample size. He's been awesome for less than 10% of the season so far. He needs to be better. Why is that so hard to admit? I don't think taking out 3/32 of a sample size is much, so my argument is perfectly valid. If you want to drink the kool-aid, talk about the 15-1 record, or Kelly Olynyk. Pangos needs to be better.

For instruction, you can look at his Kenpom ranking 2 posts above yours. Or you can consider how Keating chose to defend the Zags. Or you could realize that CBB is a guards' game, and no matter how good your bigs are, you don't go 15-1 against a top 10 sched if your guards aren't doing their job. As former D1 player Reborn often points out, winning % is the most important measure of pg play. Could he be better? Sure. So can anybody. But most measures, both objective and subjective, say he's playing pretty well.

RenoZag
01-10-2013, 05:44 PM
Dellavedova was one of the 5 Finalists for the 2012 award. . .now he's not in the mid-season cut from 80 to 20 for the 2013 honor. . .

rennis
01-10-2013, 05:44 PM
Congrats Kevin!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Hoopaholic
01-10-2013, 05:45 PM
With all due respect. Delley and roquenore WERE on the list but did NOT make the cut to 20.

It is an award voted on by head coaches, clearly a group who knows what it takes to be succesful top notched point guard in d1 ball

It is not a purely statistical award...involves leadership, teamwork, success, fundamentals and tats

NICE job pangos for being recognized by college head coaches as a top 20 point guard in basketball.....keep the zags moving in the right direction

rennis
01-10-2013, 05:45 PM
Dellavedova was one of the 5 Finalists for the 2012 award. . .now he's not in the mid-season cut from 80 to 20 for the 2013 honor. . .

Paging Mr. Jones


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

ZagsBaby
01-10-2013, 05:50 PM
For instruction, you can look at his Kenpom ranking 2 posts above yours. Or you can consider how Keating chose to defend the Zags. Or you could realize that CBB is a guards' game, and no matter how good your bigs are, you don't go 15-1 against a top 10 sched if your guards aren't doing their job. As former D1 player Reborn often points out, winning % is the most important measure of pg play. Could he be better? Sure. So can anybody. But most measures, both objective and subjective, say he's playing pretty well.

He's a shoot first PG who has been extremely inconsistent. Closer to consistently off, really. I'm not trying to bash him, because I like him and think he's gonna be ok. This isn't a Meech like bench him he sucks argument from me, just pointing out that it is OK to point out a players struggles. It really is.

maynard g krebs
01-10-2013, 06:05 PM
He's a shoot first PG

Shot attempts per minute:
KO .39
EH .35
GB ..30
PK .38
SD .27
KP .26

Darn pesky facts

MJGoGaels
01-10-2013, 06:11 PM
Always glad to see WCC players and teams get the nods and accolades. Tonight we'll get to see two great back courts and a soaring stud in the front court in Kelly O on national TV. Play like Champions boys.

WallaWallaZag
01-10-2013, 06:47 PM
He's a shoot first PG who has been extremely inconsistent. Closer to consistently off, really. I'm not trying to bash him, because I like him and think he's gonna be ok. This isn't a Meech like bench him he sucks argument from me, just pointing out that it is OK to point out a players struggles. It really is.

if you consider pangos to be struggling, bell is struggling even worse...a lot of other shooters around as well. pangos is shooting 41% from 3 on the year which is darn good for someone who shoots at the volume he does. even if you take out the 2 monster games versus ok.state and baylor he's still shooting about 35% and a whole percent higher than kevin foster is shooting on the year. i guess foster is really struggling as well...

ZagLawGrad
01-10-2013, 07:07 PM
Congrats KP. Keep doing what your're doing.

Coptrdr
01-10-2013, 07:21 PM
With all due respect. Delley and roquenore WERE on the list but did NOT make the cut to 20.

It is an award voted on by head coaches, clearly a group who knows what it takes to be succesful top notched point guard in d1 ball

It is not a purely statistical award...involves leadership, teamwork, success, fundamentals and tats

NICE job pangos for being recognized by college head coaches as a top 20 point guard in basketball.....keep the zags moving in the right direction

As Hoop points out this award is voted on by head coaches who assign their best defender the task of shutting down KP. Not easy to be considered in the top 20 PGs in the nation when there's someone up in your jockstrap 40 minutes a night, especially considering the competition he's been up against. Mouthguard is a good PG but KP is better IMHO.

See how it plays out tonight...BTW, what the Hael is a Gael?

Go Zags!

ZagLawGrad
01-10-2013, 07:32 PM
Shot attempts per minute:
KO .39
EH .35
GB ..30
PK .38
SD .27
KP .26

Darn pesky facts

:agreed:

ZagsBaby
01-10-2013, 10:36 PM
Shot attempts per minute:
KO .39
EH .35
GB ..30
PK .38
SD .27
KP .26

Darn pesky facts

Apparently you don't know what a shoot first PG means. Other teammates shot attempts are completely 100% irrelevant. It means he's more of a Russell Westbrook than a Rajon Rondo. Not in terms of their game, but Westbrooks strength is his ability to score, where Rondo's is to pass. Pangos is to score, mainly shoot.

darn pesky basketball knowledge!



if you consider pangos to be struggling, bell is struggling even worse...a lot of other shooters around as well. pangos is shooting 41% from 3 on the year which is darn good for someone who shoots at the volume he does. even if you take out the 2 monster games versus ok.state and baylor he's still shooting about 35% and a whole percent higher than kevin foster is shooting on the year. i guess foster is really struggling as well...


Yup, Bell REALLY struggling.

Great game for Pangos tonight. Looks like he's getting his mojo back. Good, they need him!

maynard g krebs
01-10-2013, 11:11 PM
Apparently you don't know what a shoot first PG means. Other teammates shot attempts are completely 100% irrelevant. It means he's more of a Russell Westbrook than a Rajon Rondo. Not in terms of their game, but Westbrooks strength is his ability to score, where Rondo's is to pass. Pangos is to score, mainly shoot.

darn pesky basketball knowledge!



LOL. Kevin is the guy who sets up the offense. That's his primary role. He is mostly focusing on getting the ball to the bigs, as the numbers prove, in spite of what you imagine you are seeing. There are a variety of reasons he doesn't get a higher # of assists.

Nine shots a game in 30+ minutes isn't shoot first by any stretch of the imagination.

Ireland shoots 16. Delly shoots 12. Roquemore shoots 9, so he must be shoot first too.

Hoopaholic
01-10-2013, 11:15 PM
Key component in Cousy award is leadership....doing whatever is needed to win, Kevin does this night in night out many times at the expense of personal glory stats.....I don't think he cares what the Sunday morning scoreboard stat reading fan thinks...I think he simply wants to win and will do whatever the team needs...dish, shoot, rebound, defense, set screen, be decoy don't matter to him

bartruff1
01-11-2013, 06:32 AM
Key component in Cousy award is leadership....doing whatever is needed to win, Kevin does this night in night out many times at the expense of personal glory stats.....I don't think he cares what the Sunday morning scoreboard stat reading fan thinks...I think he simply wants to win and will do whatever the team needs...dish, shoot, rebound, defense, set screen, be decoy don't matter to him

Kevin's stats would be higher but when Stockton is in the game, David is pretty much playing point...

Like you say, I bet he could care less.... I suspect the reason why this team has such great chemistry is Kevin's attitude not only on the court but off...he includes..he makes everyone part of what is going on...

There are a dozen NBA prospects on the current list and Pangos may not make the next cut... but this is a fine accomplishment.... the further Gonzaga goes this year, the more people will appreciate his skills..

It is amazing his worst critics are on the Gonzaga Forum.

tobizag
01-11-2013, 07:03 AM
thanks for the validation. good work...maybe KP will start rising tonite...

what do you see for lottery numbers?

Reborn
01-11-2013, 08:56 AM
Congrats to Kevin. Really proud of you, and you do deserve this. Kevin has shown his prowess as a point guard ever since the Illinois loss. He had a bad outing. But he took it upon himself to imrove his shooting and he has. Love that hard work ethic about him.

Since that loss he has had some great games against really good teams. 31 pts against Baylor, and as good as Jackson was, Kevin outdid him. Jackson is one of the best point guards on that list. Aginst Ok State kevin had 23 and made some huge shots, and nailed down two huge free throws at the end of the game. As good as Smart was for Ok State I think Kevin outdid him. And this game was on the road at a very, very tough Arena to get a win in. And then last night Kevin definitely outplayed Delly. And the key stat in all this is that the Zags are 18-1 against some very good teams.

My opinion is that Kevin will make the next cut.

ZagsBaby
01-11-2013, 10:16 AM
LOL. Kevin is the guy who sets up the offense. That's his primary role. He is mostly focusing on getting the ball to the bigs, as the numbers prove, in spite of what you imagine you are seeing. There are a variety of reasons he doesn't get a higher # of assists.

Nine shots a game in 30+ minutes isn't shoot first by any stretch of the imagination.

Ireland shoots 16. Delly shoots 12. Roquemore shoots 9, so he must be shoot first too.

Agree to disagree. Obviously there is no convincing you otherwise. That's fine. You just keep bringing up irrelevant stats of other players. If Pangos doesn't score last night, we lose. So yes, his scoring is very important because that's what he does. score. You can take 5 shots a game and still be a shoot first PG. I don't think you understand what that means. I've already given you a great example of that but you still didn't get it, so I'll just leave it at that.

Bushman
01-11-2013, 10:24 AM
Kevin was rested and played like it. He was the reason the Zags won. There are certain intangibles he brings to the floor (that are not on the stat sheet) and they were evident last night.
Hustle - came back on D to tip ball away from Holt and retain possession, shut down of Holt when he caught fire in the 2nd half.
Leadership - He took the ball in the last few minutes and lead the way. There is a sense of comfort and confidence when he is at the top.
Handle - ZERO turnovers in 40 minutes. Considering how much he handles the ball, what more can you ask for?
Timing - It is one thing to score, but WHEN you score is critical. Kevin is not afraid of the big shot and who else would you like on the line with the game in the balance?

He is not perfect, but IMHO he is the best all-around PG in the WCC. The coaches seem to Know that as well. He is deserving of the Bob Cousy nomination and I am very proud of him.

Go Zags!

ZagLawGrad
01-11-2013, 10:39 AM
Pangos is a stud. We're lucky to have him .

ZAGGED OUT
01-11-2013, 11:06 AM
Yeah, because I want to talk trash about Pangos. Or maybe Im just trying to be objective and avoid the "gonzaga fans are delusional" slander. Pangos was awesome in the 2nd half of the Davidson game, and was awesome against Baylor and Okie State. That is 3/32 of his season. That's a tiny sample size. He's been awesome for less than 10% of the season so far. He needs to be better. Why is that so hard to admit? I don't think taking out 3/32 of a sample size is much, so my argument is perfectly valid. If you want to drink the kool-aid, talk about the 15-1 record, or Kelly Olynyk. Pangos needs to be better.

For starters, I'd quit throwing around "3/32 of his season" cause it's just an exaggeration to prove your point. They have played 16 games so far, not 32. So try 3/16. Better yet, make it 4/16 with his game winner at WSU. So already that's 25% to your 10. He's really only had 4 games in which he has performed poorly (OKL, ILL, PEPP, SCU), others have been quiet (yet steady) performances often due to Kelly beasting. Could he be more consistent? Sure, but he's only a Soph. My point is that you're clearly skewing stats to support your argument. Furthermore, Kevin would be much closer to 5 assists a game if people would start knocking down the looks he's getting them. That dish to Kelly in the 2nd half where Kelly missed the bunny was an incredible dish

maynard g krebs
01-11-2013, 11:45 AM
Agree to disagree. Obviously there is no convincing you otherwise. That's fine. You just keep bringing up irrelevant stats of other players. If Pangos doesn't score last night, we lose. So yes, his scoring is very important because that's what he does. score. You can take 5 shots a game and still be a shoot first PG. I don't think you understand what that means. I've already given you a great example of that but you still didn't get it, so I'll just leave it at that.

Um, OK. KP plays like Russell Westbrook. Got it.

Thanks for setting me straight.

ZAGGED OUT
01-11-2013, 12:20 PM
Agree to disagree. Obviously there is no convincing you otherwise. That's fine. You just keep bringing up irrelevant stats of other players. If Pangos doesn't score last night, we lose. So yes, his scoring is very important because that's what he does. score. You can take 5 shots a game and still be a shoot first PG. I don't think you understand what that means. I've already given you a great example of that but you still didn't get it, so I'll just leave it at that.

I think the fact here is that your argument makes much more sense for NBA point guards. You RARELY see true pass first PG's in college ball cause guards are a much bigger part than they are in the NBA. Quin Cook is the only true pass first PG I see playing College ball right now. Any others that I'm missing? Look at Damien Lilliard (sp?). He was the ultimate shoot first PG last year at Weber and now he's averaging 8 dimes a game. I've said it before, Pangos is doing a superb job of facilitating offense but the others have missed a lot of the open shots he has got them. He's truly a 5 assist a game guy this year if we start knocking down the open kicks he gets us. Look at the driving dish to Kelly last night in the 2nd half that was incredibly good, yet Kelly missed the bunny.