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BobZag
01-08-2013, 10:59 AM
But, to me, this edition of the Zags looks and plays like several previous editions of Zag teams. This season's team looks no better than the 2005-06 version, no better than the 2008-09 version, no better than the 2003-04 version, and a few others.

They are playing well, and winning more, but these Zags have not played a Duke or a North Carolina (when good) or a top-10 type team, like the old Missouri, Georgia Tech and Okie State teams that were ranked #3 when the previous Zag teams beat them.

Good to see everyone all excited and pumped about this year's Zags, but I will continue to "pump the brakes" and reserve hype until the team does something truly special. Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

Go Zags.

Your thoughts?

wiszag
01-08-2013, 11:12 AM
Although beating the Gaels would put us in solid position for the rest of the conference season, a win against a possibly top 12 Butler team would go a long way as far as convincing me that this team is legit. I think Hinkle Fieldhouse will be an especially hostile environment at 9:00 pm local time. The Zags have some impressive road wins but I think beating the other Bulldogs would be impressive on the national scene.

zagzilla
01-08-2013, 11:18 AM
Well BZ-
I do not think there is a clear cut edge that this edition of the Zags have in talent as compared to previous teams, though it is definitely in the top 3 or so.

The one thing I have noticed that feels different is the poise of the team. This team has been able to hold opponents at arm's length when they try to go on runs. Baylor and OK St both were unable to close the gap when we had leads in the second half because the Zags found a way to answer made threes, turnovers, etc...Some of our other teams were vulnerable to runs and struggled to close out teams when we had the lead.

I still think that the 05-06 team is the most talented we have had but this is the most poised team under pressure.

ZZ

BULLDOG#1
01-08-2013, 11:29 AM
I disagree. I DO think this team is different.

Unlike previous years, this team doesn’t unravel when a few calls don’t go their way or when an opponent makes a run. Witness the OKState game – time and again the Cowboys made runs only to be answered by the zags… but moreover, they did it in a methodical way. They don’t lose composure and play with an unbelievable amount of confidence… They simply plod along and answer any run with big play after big play. Same was true in the SCU game, and the Davidson game, and to a lesser degree the Pepp game.

The size, depth, and skill of this front line is outstanding. The other teams you mentioned were great too, but this one truly feels different. Maybe it’s the incredible emergence of KO or the quiet, steady play of Harris… but whatever it is, it seems different than prior teams. KO is a difference maker – I’m not saying like Ammo was, but the guy averages 17 and 6.6 and is shooting 67.5%! AND he’s doing it with another all-american type player next to him and he’s doing it in 25 minutes a game.

The guard play has been steady and the TOs have been limited. The ‘issue’ of guarding big, physical, talented backcourts is valid, but that’s not a huge knock on this team – they aren’t perfect – and not many teams have stopped Paul or Smart or Jackson or Foster(and don’t forget Pangos put up 31 on Jackson).

Nope, this team hasn’t played a top five team – but that’s scheduling. I think this team would give any of the top five absolute fits and very likely win. I do believe they are that good.

Did any of the prior teams have (Pangos, Bell, Dower, Harris, KO, Karn, and maybe Drang) as many offensively talented players that can single-handedly win games? Some of those teams were better defensively for sure, but the offensive efficiency of this team is off the charts…that alone will keep them in every game, regardless of the opponent.

Oh, and 15-1 is pretty impressive.

PeninsulaDog
01-08-2013, 11:30 AM
Vegas futures are usually a pretty good indicator of a team's chances winning of a title. Gonzaga is 18/1 right now which is better than most years past but, as usual, there are 5-6 teams who the oddsmakers view as having a much better chance. (Sub 10/1) I do see a lot of similarities between this team and the '05-'06 team: Morrison was good enough to carry the team for a couple of games in March, but flaws were painfully revealed in Oakland. This year's team is more balanced than the '05-'06 edition, but there are some problems that I don't believe can be remedied for a run beyond the round of 16. I'll put down the bucket of cold water now . . .

Goshzagit
01-08-2013, 11:30 AM
The primary difference b/w the teams BZ listed and this years team is boom, right here:



I still think that the 05-06 team is the most talented we have had but this is the most poised team under pressure.

Quite frankly, SCU played great the other night and the stats and score backs it up. Same with Baylor. Same with Davidson to a lesser extent. All those talented teams played tremendously well vs us i.e. great FG%, clutch shots, made runs, 110% hustle, etc.

We held them off every. single. time. Maintaining a 4-6 pt lead when opposing teams are pushing to break through is tougher than advertised.

I simply do not believe Ammo's 05-06 squad could have done that and probably not '09 either...if you review the box scores those teams gave up monumental leads and lost games they shouldn't have been close.

This year's team would not lose to Portland St or give up 18 pt leads in the 2nd half...no way. They've been challenged and answered every call.

'Poise under pressure'

Could not have been stated better and answers BZ's question.

Its why we're still 15-1, when we could just as easily be 11-5.

We show up every game, and I can't say the same for '09 squad, and our team chemistry and defense is better than '05.

Also, better balance from the 1st through the 7th man is evident this season compared to previous greats'.

This team answers every bad call, run, or tough environment. While other teams have arguably been more talented, they didn't have the poise this one has evidently shown this season.

I honestly believe this team would wipe the floor with the '09 squad, a bit prima-donnish (even Bouldin said so himself in 2010), and would have given Ammo's squad a run for the money -- a toss up.

rennis
01-08-2013, 11:32 AM
I agree that none of the victories on their own are breathtaking, but the collective performance has been impressive. And if you include transitive properties, and look at who our conquered foes are beating, it's yet again impressive.

I don't chug kool-aid, but I'll take some sips when the team is hot.

mgadfly
01-08-2013, 11:33 AM
But, to me, this edition of the Zags looks and plays like several previous editions of Zag teams. This season's team looks no better than the 2005-06 version, no better than the 2008-09 version, no better than the 2003-04 version, and a few others.

They are playing well, and winning more, but these Zags have not played a Duke or a North Carolina (when good) or a top-10 type team, like the old Missouri, Georgia Tech and Okie State teams that were ranked #3 when the previous Zag teams beat them.

Good to see everyone all excited and pumped about this year's Zags, but I will continue to "pump the brakes" and reserve hype until the team does something truly special. Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

Go Zags.

Your thoughts?

On overall talent I think this team is about even (maybe slightly behind) the 2009 squad. The major differences being the 2009 squad did not have the ability to pound the ball down low all game and this squad doesn't have shot-blockers like Daye, Heytvelt, and Downs.

I don't know which is better to have, but it feels as though relying on post domination is more consistent than relying on guard (or perimeter oriented big men) play and hoping shots drop. So the teams are even but the ceiling is lower and floor higher for this team than the 09 squad.

I never know how to rank a squad like the 06 guys. Looking at the goofy talent on that squad, and absolute lack of defense, you wouldn't think they would win half their games. The AMMO/JP factor is hard to quantify.

jimmy b
01-08-2013, 11:34 AM
this years team is #13. '09 was 7th, '04 was 15th, and '06 was 41st nationally.

Granted this doesn't mean everything but backs up that POV.

My opinion, however, is that this squad will end up better than all.

The reasons are that I think they are far from peaking and will keep improving (unlike some prior editions) and have the poise and chemistry to not have disasters like Portland state that the 09 team had which contributed to a 4 seed and a UNC matchup.

We'll see, but I'm pretty optimistic.

DADoZAG
01-08-2013, 11:36 AM
In short, I believe the biggest differences are in depth and defense, but that's just my gut talking (which could be just hunger pains, it is nearly lunch time).

Perhaps those with access could compare stats on overall team defense and bench offense between the 12-13 ZAGS and those teams listed by BZ.

Go ZAGS!

Edited to add: perhaps jimmy b has already dispelled my gut, and it must just be hunger pains, although those past year ratings are end of year, yes?

sittingon50
01-08-2013, 11:41 AM
FWIW, KenPom has Butler losing 4 of their next 5. If that holds true, a Butler win won't be that helpful.

gamagin
01-08-2013, 11:48 AM
But, to me, this edition of the Zags looks and plays like several previous editions of Zag teams. This season's team looks no better than the 2005-06 version, no better than the 2008-09 version, no better than the 2003-04 version, and a few others.

They are playing well, and winning more, but these Zags have not played a Duke or a North Carolina (when good) or a top-10 type team, like the old Missouri, Georgia Tech and Okie State teams that were ranked #3 when the previous Zag teams beat them.

Good to see everyone all excited and pumped about this year's Zags, but I will continue to "pump the brakes" and reserve hype until the team does something truly special. Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

Go Zags.

Your thoughts?

this team reminds me a little of the sugar bowl. ND came in with the hype and Alabama took them to school. Big time.

But I agree that if there is a greater difference between this team and the others Zag teams you mention, it hasn't surfaced yet.

To even begin to meet half the hype, all 8 or so of our Zags have got to show up every game and at least turn in a performance equal to their own numbers.

And even that might not be good enough as the competition gets better.

The pleasant surprise for me with this team is the continued winning vis a vis the athletes that are coming off the bench. Without them we wouldn't even be drawing comparisons to those you mention. There would be none.

The more I watch this team, the more I believe PK & GBj and perhaps some others, like Edi, maybe SD, are playing with some kind of injury or mental state that keeps them off kilter some of the time.

I don't know.

If that's the case, and we keep winning with wounded warriors, and they get a chance to heal up, well, there could be a whole other scenario over the rest of the season.

I'm going to stay tuned and stop trying to divine what I don't know and let this team and all its promise, play out. But it's easy to see the picture does get curiouser and curiouser as the band plays on.

ZagMan in Philly
01-08-2013, 11:53 AM
You mentioned Vegas, one way to judge how a team is performing against the public perception, is the record against the spread. So, far they are at 10-5-1, pretty good record.

Of those 5 loses and 1 push, if they have averaged 4 points more a game (in those 6 games), they would have been perfect against the spread.

I say, the public and vegas are starting to notice that these Zags are special.
At least I am...:)

ZagsBaby
01-08-2013, 11:55 AM
Personally I don't really care they haven't had to face one of those teams yet. I'd rather wait and face those teams in the elite eight or final four.

The reality is, other than the slip up at home against Illinois, this team has won and is 15-1. They have set themselves up for a legitimate shot to run the table from here on out, and get a great NCAA tournament seed, which this program desperately needs if they ever want to make a run. Is this the best Zags team ever? I don't think so, but they have taken care of business and set themselves up for success, which is what it's all about. WIN OUT=great tournament run. The 1999 and 2000 teams were probably better, but this team has won the games on the schedule and positioned themselves very nicely. It's allll about the match ups and seeding.

BULLDOG#1
01-08-2013, 11:56 AM
this team reminds me a little of the sugar bowl. ND came in with the hype and Alabama took them to school. Big time.


I don't think there's a team in college hoops that could hang that type of beatdown on these zags. This team may be humbled at some point, but not to that extent. No way. They're too offensively talented.

siliconzag
01-08-2013, 12:11 PM
But, to me, this edition of the Zags looks and plays like several previous editions of Zag teams. This season's team looks no better than the 2005-06 version, no better than the 2008-09 version, no better than the 2003-04 version, and a few others.

They are playing well, and winning more, but these Zags have not played a Duke or a North Carolina (when good) or a top-10 type team, like the old Missouri, Georgia Tech and Okie State teams that were ranked #3 when the previous Zag teams beat them.

Good to see everyone all excited and pumped about this year's Zags, but I will continue to "pump the brakes" and reserve hype until the team does something truly special. Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

Go Zags.

Your thoughts?

I agree with Beezer on this one. The loss to the Illini was not to Indiana, or to to Syracuse, Kansas or Duke. There are a lot of low loss teams who are also thumping their chests, like even Creighton.

Until our guard play becomes more consistent, I think we are not destined for a deep run in March. That is going to take some player development. Our defense is still lame at times, as well.

Sili

jazzdelmar
01-08-2013, 12:46 PM
Sili-Until our guard play becomes more consistent, I think we are not destined for a deep run in March. That is going to take some player development. Our defense is still lame at times, as well.

QED, Sili.

Goshzagit
01-08-2013, 12:52 PM
I agree with Beezer on this one. The loss to the Illini was not to Indiana, or to to Syracuse, Kansas or Duke. There are a lot of low loss teams who are also thumping their chests, like even Creighton.

Until our guard play becomes more consistent, I think we are not destined for a deep run in March. That is going to take some player development. Our defense is still lame at times, as well.

Sili

Right now, Creighton is listed as #3 seed in Bracketology and Gonzaga a #2 seed.

I would love if Creighton were the team we match-up with in the Sweet 16. Love it. They are ranked #1 in the Mid-Major poll at the moment, but I think we'd win on neutral floor.

Let's see how well Creighton's bigs could defend ours...McDermott would have his way, of course, but we'd hold our own, if not much much more.

Both smart teams, efficient, and can score with the best, yet I think we're physically stronger/tougher and it'd show in a NCAA game where refs swallow their whistles a bit.

Right now Creighton has 2 wins vs Top-50 RPI and 1 loss vs #40 RPI BSU. SOS is #30.

Right now Gonzaga has 4 wins vs Top-50 RPI and 1 loss vs #8 RPI Illinois. SOS is #7.

Thankfully, both #14 Butler & BYU are Top-30 RPI as well for more resume building.

Also, Illinois might not be Duke, Kansas, or 'Cuse, yet they still just beat Top-10 Ohio St by 20, & ranked #12.

All that said, we're nearly identical teams:

Kenpom has rated Gonzaga #3 in AdjO and #62 in AdjD. Creighton is rated #7 AdjO and #61 in AdjD. That is remarkably close in stats, ratings, efficiencies. Although Kenpom also says we've faced much tougher opponents overall by 3X his adjusted SOS rating compared to ESPN.

it'd be a great game. still confident we'd win.

CDC84
01-08-2013, 12:54 PM
Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

This should be considered some sort of accomplishment. The 2008/09 team, which had more talent than this year's team, lost to Portland State and Utah. I mean, it's not a sign that this year's team is destined for final four glory, but it's an encouraging trend. It remains to be seen whether this team will cough up a fur ball at some point. I hope not, because this team is going to need to win a ton of games and avoid bad losses in order to land a top 3 seed. The powerhouse wins will be few.

What I like about this team compared to some of the previous teams is the toughness they show at the end of games. This team isn't as mentally fragile. Both guards hit big time shots to win games, and the team has been able to stay strong during several late 2nd half comebacks.

Oregonzagnut
01-08-2013, 01:08 PM
IMO, they are doing more and are better than ever. Few says this team has chemistry like he has never seen and I for one believe him. As far as talent on paper, maybe we are just like the other teams BZ mentioned, but I think this team AS A COHESIVE UNIT is something special. Especially when Few is on his game as well. Few gets better every year and so do our chances!

Vegas odds have nothing on what Few sees in our chemistry and desire to win. What were Butlers odds on making their first championship game? 50:1?

Its not the size of the dog in the fight......

tinfoilzag
01-08-2013, 01:10 PM
I don't think this team is that much better than previous greats but there are two main differences:

The competition is (unusually) weaker and it feels like the committee might allow us to have a top 3 seed.

That means we don't run into a monster in the sweet 16 and we don't have to play in someone else's backyard in the first weekend. I know you have to eventually beat the best teams to win but wouldn't it be nice to meet those teams in the E8 instead of the first weekend.

With our schedule, I think the question is can we peak in Feb-March? It's hard to hone your edge against cupcakes.

CaliforniaZaggin'
01-08-2013, 01:13 PM
1. This team has the best offensive player since Adam.

2. This is the most complete Zags team ever, which includes depth.

3. Just because this team hasn't played (and consequently hasn't beaten) a Duke or UNC doesn't mean they couldn't.

4. There's merit to winning the games you're supposed to win.

maynard g krebs
01-08-2013, 01:15 PM
Both guards hit big time shots to win games, and the team has been able to stay strong during several late 2nd half comebacks.

Beat me to it. KP might always be a streak shooter, but with this team it'll be 2-9 and not 3-15 on a bad night; it won't kill you when the focus is inside and those guys are well over 60%. GB is hurt and that's messing up his shot; it doesn't look normal, yet he made the one big shot he's taken lately and looked good on that release. And GB has a history the last 2 years of elevating his game in tournaments.

If he doesn't get healthy, though, and is playing like this in March , not much chance to beat the elite teams in March. If he's healthy, you can book it as fact that he'll play like he did against W VA and OSU.

Agree that this team is about equal to those in the OP, but they seem to have more of the feel of the Santangelo/Frahm/Calvary teams who stepped up in March, but with more overall talent

abarefootboy
01-08-2013, 01:26 PM
~


there is a symphony building
beginning over a decade or so ago
with a single instrument
a meandering accoustic guitar a la Segovia
along the way
other instruments
one at a time
melded within the melody

masterpieces take time to form
but once the flow of one
gets into you
whether the smile of a Giaconda
or the dunk of an Olynyk
you can't get
the music out of your mind

and so the contemporary America sports fan
has sat in the audience
listening
watching
absorbing
what it is
to craft
sport
into
Art


the spirit of it
is
invisible
but the
manifestation
of
Beauty
is
real

now

we've entered
the realm of mythology
the dark land of the collective unconcious
colored by ESPN
framed
and
hung
upon our walls
in 3D plasma

let it wash
our little bruised inland family
clean
from all those tear stained years
we buried our heads in our hands

after having

" Coug'ed it "

let's , as the old tune goes ...

" let our little light shine "


the illumination

will guide American sports fans

for years to come

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/p480x480/200120_10151205300852635_151921859_n.jpg

FuManShoes
01-08-2013, 01:33 PM
This team's offense is close to or as good as any team in its past, and that's with guards struggling from three.

However, this team's defense is not elite - we lack shotblockers and quality opposing guards are hurting us. This will need to change if we stand a chance of making the Elite Eight or FF.

On the plus side, the team is deep, gets to the line, owns the paint, seems poised, has multiple scoring options, and seems to be tight, have no egos and Few has been great at subbing.

rennis
01-08-2013, 01:40 PM
we lack shotblockers

Of the few things I spend any real time nitpicking a 14-1 team about when I watch them play, is this simple but very important component of good defensive teams.

I think it is more important than any offensive weakness at the 3 spot, GBJ's shooting struggles, KP's streakiness, Dower's struggles, etc.

GU's best years are always marked by having some guy in the paint who could send a guard's scoop shot into the bleachers.

MDABE80
01-08-2013, 01:46 PM
But, to me, this edition of the Zags looks and plays like several previous editions of Zag teams. This season's team looks no better than the 2005-06 version, no better than the 2008-09 version, no better than the 2003-04 version, and a few others.

They are playing well, and winning more, but these Zags have not played a Duke or a North Carolina (when good) or a top-10 type team, like the old Missouri, Georgia Tech and Okie State teams that were ranked #3 when the previous Zag teams beat them.

Good to see everyone all excited and pumped about this year's Zags, but I will continue to "pump the brakes" and reserve hype until the team does something truly special. Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

Go Zags.

Your thoughts?

Not till our guards improve will we see deep territory in the NCAA. Right now, the guards are good but not great. The bigs are winning games. It's a guard's game in college.
I willadmit that I do love the record and think it could be 16-0. Still this is the type of team that wins games during the eason but is a one and done team (maybe two) in the NCAA. ...unless the guards reappear. Glaring problem.
It's a heckova fun ride but it'll get over if we run into a big time opponent.

rijman
01-08-2013, 01:47 PM
I agree the Zags don't have that marquee win over a top 10 ranked team, but then they haven't played a team that was ranked top 10 at the time. When you haven't played a top 10 team how can you beat one? Because the Zags haven't played the top teams it's hard to determine if they could beat one. It will be interesting to see how the Zags play against Butler.

Zagcity
01-08-2013, 01:55 PM
But, to me, this edition of the Zags looks and plays like several previous editions of Zag teams. This season's team looks no better than the 2005-06 version, no better than the 2008-09 version, no better than the 2003-04 version, and a few others.

They are playing well, and winning more, but these Zags have not played a Duke or a North Carolina (when good) or a top-10 type team, like the old Missouri, Georgia Tech and Okie State teams that were ranked #3 when the previous Zag teams beat them.

Good to see everyone all excited and pumped about this year's Zags, but I will continue to "pump the brakes" and reserve hype until the team does something truly special. Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

Go Zags.

Your thoughts?

I would agree, but the only thing I would add is this years 2012-13 team has more tools in the toolbox :)

SanDiegoZag
01-08-2013, 02:12 PM
I do agree to a point. As you alluded to, the Zags schedule to date kind of reminds of the Notre Dame football schedule this year. Although it has been a difficult schedule, they have not (and will not) play a top 5 or even top 10 team all year. As Notre Dame showed last night, beating a lot of pretty good teams does not prove that you can hang with, or beat the cream of the crop.

The Zags have always fared well against athletic teams, and struggled most with efficient teams that can shoot the ball. Although OK State showed me they were a better shooting team than I thought, they still get by mostly on athleticism.

I think beating Butler would be positive. However, I have a hard time gauging how Gonzaga stacks up against Duke, Kansas, Indiana, Syracuse, Florida, and even Notre Dame.

Based on the Bracketology that Lunardi has lined up today, I would say the Zags have a good shot at making it to the Final Four...and I don't think you could always say that with past teams though. As always, it comes down to matchups.

Give the Zags a game with Tennessee, Cincinnati, or Georgetown...and GU will get the win 8 out of 10 times.





But, to me, this edition of the Zags looks and plays like several previous editions of Zag teams. This season's team looks no better than the 2005-06 version, no better than the 2008-09 version, no better than the 2003-04 version, and a few others.

They are playing well, and winning more, but these Zags have not played a Duke or a North Carolina (when good) or a top-10 type team, like the old Missouri, Georgia Tech and Okie State teams that were ranked #3 when the previous Zag teams beat them.

Good to see everyone all excited and pumped about this year's Zags, but I will continue to "pump the brakes" and reserve hype until the team does something truly special. Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

Go Zags.

Your thoughts?

Robzagnut
01-08-2013, 02:14 PM
Too early to tell.

I want to see how well they do againt St. Marys, Butler and BYU. Then I want to see how well they play against the bottom half of the WCC. Games against LMU, San Diego, Portland and San Francisco are a good barometer of their killer instinct and whether or not they can develop the bench and give them some experience.

TravelinZag
01-08-2013, 02:23 PM
But, to me, this edition of the Zags looks and plays like several previous editions of Zag teams. This season's team looks no better than the 2005-06 version, no better than the 2008-09 version, no better than the 2003-04 version, and a few others.

They are playing well, and winning more, but these Zags have not played a Duke or a North Carolina (when good) or a top-10 type team, like the old Missouri, Georgia Tech and Okie State teams that were ranked #3 when the previous Zag teams beat them.

Good to see everyone all excited and pumped about this year's Zags, but I will continue to "pump the brakes" and reserve hype until the team does something truly special. Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

Go Zags.

Your thoughts?
As usual, I (sadly) agree with you. However, the opportunity to do something "truly special" won't appear on the schedule until at least the sweet sixteen round of the NCAA tournament. That is the first time the Zags can face a top five team.

Beating Butler at their house would be exceptional, but they are below the Zags in ratings and RPI. (Losing there won't ruin the year either.) Running out the conference schedule undefeated, or with a single loss would also be outstanding, but not "truly special" in your terms.

Agreed, this teams "looks" like some outstanding previous teams; not all bad. But. . . .this team will play this year's schedule against this year's teams. And. . . .it's hard to say that any previous Zag team has played with more heart, with greater toughness or with better chemistry than this year's Zags.

In the end, I believe that this year's team is truly special, and I hope the results and the fickle bounces will allow a record that reflects that. Just wish we didn't have to wait so long for a positive answer to your query.

Go Zags!

JPtheBeasta
01-08-2013, 02:23 PM
I covet an NBA-like talent like Paul in our backcourt, but aside from that, we really need to get some more production out of Bell. He looked quicker and more aggressive last game (he has been a passive, spot-up shooter the past several games, in my estimation). Although that didn't translate into much, it is hopefully a sign of better things to come. We need the guy that looked so good against Ohio St to show up on a regular basis and will be much more confident about a deep run.

I was also hoping Dranginis would provide in spurts the combination of length and athleticism that we are lacking back there, but he doesn't appear to be ready quite yet. I really would like to see some lop-sided games that we can get him into down the road here to get his confidence up, where he can make a mistake or two and not make Few too nervous to pull his leash quickly. He may be needed before the season is up, considering our only other option back there is the undersized, yet talented, David Stockton.

TacomaZAG
01-08-2013, 02:54 PM
The one word I have yet to read in this thread with reference to this year's edition of our beloved ZAGS is CONSISTENCY. While they may not have the raw talent of some past editions, this team has been extremely consistent, every game. Not necessarily individually consistent, as everyone has good and bad nights, but the team as a whole has been remarkably consistent.

As said earlier, they don't lose to teams aka Portland State and USF from previous years, and there are going to be very few teams who will be favored over them until the E8. I just don't see this team "coughing up a fur ball" in conference play that will doom them to a distant game as a 7-10 seed in the tourney and a meeting with a top seed in round of 32 or Sweet 16. I really think this team is consistent enough to get a 2 or 3 seed, and then who knows. It's all about seeding and match-ups, and the higher we are seeded the better I like the match-up.

If they stay consistent I don't see this year's edition entering the Dance with more than 2 or 3 losses, with those losses being to good teams. To me, that translates to a 2 or 3 seed and a first weekend in the West. Can't ask for much more than that.

Go ZAGS

DixieZag
01-08-2013, 03:38 PM
One sad characteristic of college basketball is that so much of the "sucess" in a season is wrapped up in a "loser out" tournament at the end of the year. So much of how your season is remembered is wrapped up in how the team played in the last game or two.

I think that this team is special - not b/c of it being the "best" Zag team ever but b/c it has wonderful chemistry that is evident just watching them and they have stayed consistently mentally tough throughout the year so far.

As others have noted, one blessing this team has is that there are no "Kentuckys" or "2009 UNCs" - - teams that are so good that your season is done the moment you run into them in March, there are years when the FF already has 2 teams "booked" b/c they are so much better than the next level, this year the parity favors GU being good this year and getting a decent seed.

And, BZ - - I didn't get the feel that anyone thought that this team was ahead of where some of the better GU teams were, I think there is excitement that we have another "special" GU team. I think there is excitment b/c there is genuine reason to think that this team is getting better each week and there is excitement b/c if there was ever a year to nab a 2 seed and make a run, it is this year with no clear team or two head and shoulders above all the others.

SteelZag
01-08-2013, 04:03 PM
I won't try to compare this years squad with those from years past, but I would like to see this years team vs 2009 when Josh gets a blow and Austin rotates to the 5 and Micah or Ira rotate to the 4. I know Ira was strong and both he and Micah had hops as well as length. The 2009 team was great but had too many guys playing out of position IMHO.

cjm720
01-08-2013, 04:03 PM
I'd say this team is in good company then. All it takes is a bounce here or there for outcomes to change. Add that bit of luck to this talented team and it's a heckuva season.

I'm enjoying every minute of it!!!!!

JPtheBeasta
01-08-2013, 04:24 PM
I won't try to compare this years squad with those from years past, but I would like to see this years team vs 2009 when Josh gets a blow and Austin rotates to the 5 and Micah or Ira rotate to the 4. I know Ira was strong and both he and Micah had hops as well as length. The 2009 team was great but had too many guys playing out of position IMHO.

Good point.

10 Piece Bucket
01-08-2013, 07:40 PM
Barefootboy- a more fitting statue symbolizing the passing of effort and Zagness may be found at the entrance to the Chrysler museum in Norfolk VA- check it out.
Now then why do the lads have poise? Because they have GRIT.
If you don't have GRIT it doesn't, matter what else you've got.
GO ZAGS!!!

gamagin
01-08-2013, 07:51 PM
[QUOTE=abarefootboy;851940]~
" let our little light shine "


well said. thanks

Mantua
01-08-2013, 07:54 PM
I believe there is so much enthusiasm generated for this team because they are genuinely nice kids who respect their fans, their coach and each other. This group is very well grounded and bright. Has there been a team since '99 with better chemistry? Without a rebel, an aloof guy, or an odd man out? They seem gregarious and inclusive. Now they have a great season opening record. They're special, refreshing. Of course our expectations are high. We're big fans!

GodZaga76
01-08-2013, 07:59 PM
All I am saying is wins is what it really all comes down to, and so far our boys this year have there best record of any team so I think gotta disagree with big Bob on thus one.

NotoriousZ
01-08-2013, 08:28 PM
1. This team has the best offensive player since Adam.

2. This is the most complete Zags team ever, which includes depth.

3. Just because this team hasn't played (and consequently hasn't beaten) a Duke or UNC doesn't mean they couldn't.

4. There's merit to winning the games you're supposed to win.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. C-Zaggin' is da' man.

Bob-- Those other Zags' teams you compared this one with were great teams. Granted, the lapses on defense is of some concern, but we can score on anybody. Pumping the brakes on this team is pure blasphemy.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd143/dsgraphics_photos/Funny/Blasphemer.jpg

bballbeachbum
01-08-2013, 08:37 PM
I'd say this team is in good company then. All it takes is a bounce here or there for outcomes to change. Add that bit of luck to this talented team and it's a heckuva season.

I'm enjoying every minute of it!!!!!

I'm enjoying it too! and good post.

the Elite 8 team lost seven games right? Seven.

come March, it's about peaking clearly, and just as importantly as how your team is playing, it's all about the matchups the committee gives out seems to me. Can a team exploit what the committee gives them, or, on the other side of the coin, can they overcome it?

Unless you're some steamroller who can matchup however with whomever, the matchups in March matter. Maybe it doesn't matter as much as how the team is playing, but since basically all teams are playing well to be in the tournament in the first place, maybe it does matter that much

to Bob's OP, this team's balance, when the perimeter play is slugging back and landing blows even if the opponent's backcourt is playing well too, is the key for me, and can they do it when needed most in March no matter the matchup. That's a Reader's Digest take of it

It's been a blast watching these guys figure things out so far

GeorgiaZagFan
01-08-2013, 09:04 PM
I believe this year is different for the Zags in that there are NOT 4 or 5 teams that are way out of our league. In fact I don't think there are ANY teams this year that are unbeatable as in the past. A few years ago when we faced UNC in the NCAA tourney ... we had a good team but could have played that game 100 times and lost every one. Same thing with Syracuse and if we'd faced Kentucky the last couple of years, same story. But Duke, Indiana, Michigan, Louisville, Arizona, Kansas, ??????? ..... not a single team this year makes me say "no way". Any one of those teams on a neutral court, and we play a solid game, we will have a good chance to win. If Dower and Edi get it going and PK & KD use the WCC games to further their development... by tourney time....Zags would be my favorite to win the whole thing this year.

ZagLawGrad
01-08-2013, 09:19 PM
BZ just messing with us. :clap:

cggonzaga
01-08-2013, 11:28 PM
This team is 15-1 and has played a difficult schedule. By the end of the season we should have 4 wins over top 25 teams. i dont believe any Zags team can say that. We haven't come close to playing our best ball yet. We enter league play against the toughest conference schedule top to bottom i can remember. The sky is the limit!

Ekrub
01-08-2013, 11:30 PM
I'm a zag homer and I'll never pump the breaks on a 15-1 team with an RPI of 5. I fully expect the zags to make the E8 and probably the FF.

Gin N GUice
01-09-2013, 04:56 AM
But, to me, this edition of the Zags looks and plays like several previous editions of Zag teams. This season's team looks no better than the 2005-06 version, no better than the 2008-09 version, no better than the 2003-04 version, and a few others.

They are playing well, and winning more, but these Zags have not played a Duke or a North Carolina (when good) or a top-10 type team, like the old Missouri, Georgia Tech and Okie State teams that were ranked #3 when the previous Zag teams beat them.

Good to see everyone all excited and pumped about this year's Zags, but I will continue to "pump the brakes" and reserve hype until the team does something truly special. Thus far, the guys are merely doing what Vegas odds makers say they should be doing, nothing more, nothing less.

Go Zags.

Your thoughts?

I'm confused. Is this a doom and gloom thread? The "eyeball test" has told me from day 1 this team could be special. I feel more confident about this team after every game. Maybe you will join in after we beat st marys by 20+ on thursday night:)

VinnyZag
01-09-2013, 07:46 AM
I certainly feel more confident about this team than I have since ... well, ever. Can't exactly quantify why.

Here's one thing we can quantify, which contradicts my point: This is the worst defensive team at Gonzaga since 2010 in terms of defensive efficiency. GU's 92.7 defensive efficiency mark is 63rd in Division I. The '10 team was at 94.7 (66th). The only recent Zag team that was worse was the 11-loss '07 team, which gave up 95.8 points per 100 possessions.

The statistical profile of this group is starting to remind me of the 06 Zags, the Morrison-led team with a great offense and a poor defense. Only this year's team is a little worse on offense and nowhere near as horrible on defense.

mgadfly
01-09-2013, 08:19 AM
I certainly feel more confident about this team than I have since ... well, ever. Can't exactly quantify why.

Here's one thing we can quantify, which contradicts my point: This is the worst defensive team at Gonzaga since 2010 in terms of defensive efficiency. GU's 92.7 defensive efficiency mark is 63rd in Division I. The '10 team was at 94.7 (66th). The only recent Zag team that was worse was the 11-loss '07 team, which gave up 95.8 points per 100 possessions.

The statistical profile of this group is starting to remind me of the 06 Zags, the Morrison-led team with a great offense and a poor defense. Only this year's team is a little worse on offense and nowhere near as horrible on defense.

Starting WCC play at 63rd probably doesn't make this the 06 team with its solid triple digit ranking in defense. But it certainly isn't the 09 team with its length and quickness on D either.

Our defense has taken a serious hit over the past month (as we started out very well). I think we should vary how our bigs handle on ball screens and sprinkle in a little zone while not giving up on the press so quickly.

titopoet
01-09-2013, 08:24 AM
I Must be in the Minority

Yes, you are. Come my son, drink the Koolaide. Its yummy. Um, Zags will it all. Lets all bet our retirement. Come on. Trust the 18-23 year olds. We have a big glass with you name on it, Bobzag. Jay Bilas will demand the Zags be included in the ACC.

Drink, my son Drink

Reborn
01-09-2013, 09:57 AM
Yes, there are some really good teams ranked in the top 5. Who knows if we could beat them or not. I think that this is the reason that getting a good seed is important so we don't have to play these top teams in the second round, or even in the 3rd. If the Zags got a 2 or 3 seed they would not play the #1 teams until the 4th round or the Elite 8. Most people think that once you make it to the Sweet 16 that anyone can win. Sometime that's true and sometime it's not.

If the Zags are able to play in the West bracket our chances of reaching the elite 8 or Final 4 increase immensely. One of the most known facts about basketball is that being at home increases your chances of winning alot. If we get a chance to play one of these top 5 teams BZ talks about, if we can play them out West I believe our chances of beating them are pretty good. I think the best place to play would be LA.

So Im not counting the Zags out of it yet, and I am more hopeful then I've ever been (accepting maybe in '06). That '06 was a great team and should have beaten UCLA that night. It as a fluke. I'm not sure this team is as good as that one, but I think that the great chemistry of this team might create a little bit of luck for the team (which it has already done ie. WSU and OK ST.). I won't be surprised at all if this team makes it to the final 4. This is the first year since I've been on this board that I have said that, and I have not even said that we had a team that would reach the Elite 8. But this team IS different I think. I didn't say better. I said DIFFERENT. I have maintaint that THE BEST IS YET TO COME every year since I first posted, and this could be the year.

gueastcoast
01-09-2013, 10:12 AM
Let us not be nattering naBOBs of negativism!

;)